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- [00:04]
Samantha Sellinger Morris
Within hours of the shooting, right outside where Donald Trump was dining at the Hilton Hotel in Washington, the American president was venting his anger.
- [00:13]
Donald Trump
You're horrible people. Horrible people.
- [00:15]
Samantha Sellinger Morris
Not notably about the gunman firing shots in the lobby of the hotel, but at a journalist who read out what the suspected shooter allegedly thinks about Trump.
- [00:26]
Bruce Walby
Excuse me.
- [00:26]
Donald Trump
Excuse me. I'm not a pedophile. You read that crap from some sick person? I'm any of those things, Mr. President. Excuse me. You shouldn't be reading that in 60 minutes. You're a disgrace.
- [00:40]
Samantha Sellinger Morris
I'm Samantha Sellinger Morris, and you're listening to the Morning edition from the Age and the City Morning Herald. Today, Bruce Walby, a former American congressional
- [00:51]
Interviewer/Host
staffer and now a senior fellow at
- [00:53]
Samantha Sellinger Morris
the United States Study center on why the shooting differs in such a crucial and dangerous way from the two attempts on Trump's life in 2024 and the reckoning that is now spreading throughout Washington as a result. It's April 28th
- [01:13]
Interviewer/Host
and just a note
- [01:14]
Samantha Sellinger Morris
after recording this episode, Cole Thomas Allen was charged on Tuesday, Australian time, with an attempted assassination of Donald Trump. According to a note that Allen sent family members minutes before the attack, he said he believed that it was his duty to target Trump administration officials. Jeanine Pirro, the top federal prosecutor in Washington, has said that additional charges would be brought against him.
- [01:39]
Interviewer/Host
Bruce, welcome back to the podcast.
- [01:41]
Bruce Walby
Thank you. A very momentous day. Thanks so much, Sam.
- [01:44]
Interviewer/Host
I mean, it really is. Let's start off by you just telling us what actually happened at the Washington Correspondent's Dinner. We know this took place Sunday midday, Australian time, and obviously the global headlines just went berserk because this was so momentous.
- [01:58]
Samantha Sellinger Morris
Just tell us what happened.
- [01:59]
Bruce Walby
This is an annual dinner of the White House Correspondents association, which was formed in the 1920s. In recent decades, it's always been held at the Washington Hilton because it's the biggest ballroom in the city and everyone wants to go. What was making this special was that Trump accepted it. I mean, this is the mainstream media and everybody else and the lamestream media and the fake news, they're all there, many of whom Trump has contempt for. But he says, I want to come and I have some messages to deliver. So at the dinner course, around 9:30pm Saturday night, Washington time, food is being served. And then suddenly there are noises coming from outside the room. The CBS correspondent who was the chair of this session, she immediately looked like something was up. And then many people rushed to the podium, protected the president. One agent stood in front of him. So no one, if there was an attack. It would have to go through physically his body to get to the president, and then he was hauled out. The immediate purpose was to get as many cabinet officers and members, significant members in the official rankings in Washington, out, and that's what happened. So the whole thing was about three minutes, but it was probably the most dramatic three minutes. A lot of people will live.
- [03:10]
News Reporter
Good afternoon. U.S. president Donald Trump has been rushed from a Washington ballroom after a man opened fire in the hotel's lobby. The sound of several gunshots sent the President ducking. Security detail leapt over tables
- [03:30]
Donald Trump
as a
- [03:30]
News Reporter
swarm of officers surrounded the President and the first lady, rushing them from the stage.
- [03:42]
Interviewer/Host
And so do we know how this unfolded? Like, how close did this gunman actually get to getting inside the ballroom? Because, you know, it was chaos. Right? Like many of the reporters that were there, they've since written accounts that they're under the tables. Right? They've ducked under the tables. It's difficult to see what's happening. So what do we know about how close this gunman actually got to the ballroom and therefore to President Trump?
- [04:06]
Bruce Walby
From everything that I could see, he wanted to storm the doors of the ballroom and get in. He didn't do that. He raced past. He ran through a magnetometer, like an airport thing with Secret Service. He ran past, and then they started in pursuit. Shots were fired. One officer, one Secret Service agent was hit, but had a bulletproof vest and apparently he's okay. They wrested guns and other weapons from him, threw them on the floor, stripped them, checked, and so forth. So while it was a terribly vicious attempt, there was no direct threat in terms of a weapon being fired at the president in the room. So. But everyone is scared. I mean, you have, you know, Charlie Kirk, you had the president in Butler, Pennsylvania, a guy with a gun outside his golf course near Mar a Lago. So this is the third attempt on Trump in the past two years.
- [04:58]
Interviewer/Host
It's absolutely just astonishing. And tell us, what do we know about the gunman? Because we know that the New York Post published a copy of the alleged manifesto written by this gunman. So what do we know?
- [05:09]
Bruce Walby
We'll find out a lot more. But apparently he had strong anti Trump feelings. But you know how he reached a point where he wanted to express them? We'll find out in due course. But it seems he was motivated more by political issues, as opposed to people like to do these terribly violent things just for attention or to just show, I'm out there. Hey, look at me. So it seems more focused. And I think that actually gets to something pretty important here. President Trump is a divisive figure. He is the divider in chief of the country. He is not the uniter in chief. He stirs passions among people. And so there is this mood that will continue through the duration of the Trump presidency of things being tense and people being upset and believing that wrong things were done and wanting to fix them. And so I think we'll see. I believe we'll see more of this.
- [05:57]
Interviewer/Host
And you mentioned, of course, that there's been two prior assassination attempts on Trump only recently. And this is notable, this one. Right. Because Trump wasn't the only apparent target. Is that right? Because again, in that manifesto that's been obtained by the New York Post, the alleged attacker wrote that he was after, quote, administration officials in brackets, not including Mr. Patel, that is, of course, the head of the FBI. They are targets prioritized from highest ranking to lowest. So I guess tell us how significant it is that this gunman wasn't allegedly just going for Trump, but rather a number of administration officials.
- [06:33]
Bruce Walby
He was on a mission. And so. And I think there are many people across the country who feel, you know, people who have lost. Lost their mind, you know, become distorted individuals. And I think there are a lot of people who harbor these feelings. So then the issue is what kind of security is provided here for this event. And the Hilton Hotel itself, anyone could walk in, including on Saturday night, it was a functioning hotel. There were the electronic, the magnetometers, the wands and all that stuff to get into the room. But I think there's a judgment made as to whether that was really sufficient. So if it ever is redone in another hotel in Washington, I think many further steps will be taken to clear the building with, you know, 48 hours before anything happens and let people go about their business. These are. Look, these are scary times for the country, and the country is tense. I've been there for six weeks. I'm going back for a couple months in July and August, and people are not happy. And so, actually, there's no surprise here. There's always shock when someone tries to attack the president and others, but we're not surprised by it anymore, and we're going to see more of this.
- [07:44]
Interviewer/Host
Okay, so then, as a layperson, watching this unfold and hearing all of the reporting about it, I'm a little astonished, because even this gunman in this alleged manifesto, this is bananas to me. In a postscript, he actually expressed surprise at what he described as a lack of proper security at the hotel. And you mentioned Just before that, the nickname for this Hilton hotel is the Hinckley Hilton, which is, of course, because John Hinckley, Jr. The attempted assassin of Ronald Reagan, I think it was 1981, was outside the same hotel. So does this point to stupidity that this dinner is still held there and that there's such a lack of security that anybody can just walk into the hotel?
- [08:25]
Bruce Walby
That's the way it's been since the Hinckley shooting. Reagan almost lost his life. He was taken to the hospital. It turned out he was bleeding quite heavily. And he gets on the operating table, and it's Ronald Reagan saying, tell me, are all you guys. All you doctors, are you Republicans?
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Interviewer/Host
You know, that's right. He was famously joking, although he almost died.
- [08:43]
Bruce Walby
I think if Reagan. This was Reagan's night on Saturday night, he would have said, you know, I had some great material and I didn't have a chance to use it in my speech. So I.
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Interviewer/Host
That's right.
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Bruce Walby
But Trump is not like that. But just looking at. There's video of the gunman rushing towards the door, and he's running through the magnetometer to get there. So I think he rehearsed. He apparently checked into the hotel two nights earlier, and I think he knew he had a plan, and I think he was executing on the plan
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Samantha Sellinger Morris
after the break.
- [09:13]
Bruce Walby
Why was this not just the room itself, but the area around the room so vulnerable to someone penetrating it?
- [09:23]
Interviewer/Host
Okay, well, you mentioned just there before that Ronald Reagan was famously Joheed doctors that he hoped they were Republicans when he was, you know, had lost so much blood from his attempted assassination. Obviously, like you said, he almost died. Do we know about Trump's response? Because, of course, certainly when he was nearly assassinated in Butler, Pennsylvania, I think it could be argued that he used that for great political gain. He amassed a huge amount of support in the wake of that. You know, that photo became iconic and it was used for political means. What do you think about this moment, Bruce?
- [09:59]
Bruce Walby
I think this is a replay of sorts of that moment. I mean, what impressed everyone, of course, when he was shot in Pennsylvania was his determination. Fight, fight, fight. Holding up his fist as there's bl face. And so what's he projecting? Strength and courage. And I'm not afraid. And if you look at his face as this unfolded on the dais, he wasn't ducking under a desk or anything. He was pretty calm. And I think. And everyone kind of noticed it. And so this kicks in again. Another thing that happened in the immediate aftermath of Butler, Pennsylvania, the following week was the Republican National Convention, where he was renominated for a second term. And he gets out and he talks in spiritual terms, that he believes God is with him and wants him to become president again to save the country. And I think we'll hear some of that. This mortality issue and spiritual forces, I think we'll hear from him again. I expect he will get. He is really underwater in his approval rating because of the economy and because of the war in Iran. I think he will get a slight bump in his approval because of this. Most Americans do not want violence against elected officials, and no one wants him to come to an end like this. So I think there'll be an uptick at a time when he really needs it of people saying, yeah, you know, we wish you well, Mr. President.
- [11:19]
Interviewer/Host
I'm just wondering, is there any chance that there might be the opposite as well? Because we know that in the wake of this shooting incident that Trump said that Melania, his wife, reacted more quickly than he did, and he said he didn't react as quickly as she did. And I wonder whether some people might actually interpret that as feebleness or not having, you know, just his instincts or his reactions being slowed because of his age. Obviously, there's a lot of focus at the moment on what some are seeing as mental deterioration. Just in terms of the social media posts he's been sending out that seem to be a bit deranged. Do you think anybody might interpret it that way?
- [11:58]
Bruce Walby
I don't think so. And he went back to the White House first. He said he wanted to continue the event and kind of, let's come back in 30 minutes after the break and so he could do his program.
- [12:09]
Interviewer/Host
I think he needed it pointed out to him from his own people that people might not be so responsive to jokes after what might be an attempted assassination.
- [12:17]
Bruce Walby
I think it was pretty good advice, I'd say. But when he. When he went back to the White House and did the press briefing, I found him to be very strong. Matter of fact, down to earth, knew what he was saying, in control. In other words.
- [12:29]
Donald Trump
It was. It's always shocking when something like this happens, happened to me a little bit, and that never changes. And again, the performance of the Secret Service and the police, all of the law enforcement, I thought was really good. So it was very quick. There wasn't a lot of time to be.
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Interviewer/Host
A lot of people have been writing about that this day after which is that so many people who would have been, in succession if, God forbid, Trump had actually been assassinated were in the same room. So Is there much discussion happening, do you think, this morning, either among the Secrets Service or more broadly in the White House, that something seriously needs to change? Like just tell us how risky that was, because I saw someone report that if catastrophe had struck, control of the US Nuclear codes would have passed to Senator Chuck grassley, who is 92.
- [13:16]
Bruce Walby
Well, think about it. America is at war. And every senior member of the Cabinet was there. And in terms of presidential succession, the vice president was there. The speaker of the House is next in line. He was there. So imagine. And again, with the war on, let's say someone had bombs on them and was a suicide bomber, could get into the room and explode the whole room. It would have, yes, that's a catastrophe. So I think all this is going to be looked at and that's all to the good. But I think there are a lot of questions. Why was this not just the room itself, but the area around the room, so vulnerable to someone penetrating it?
- [13:50]
Interviewer/Host
And I want to ask you about how you think it's perhaps been resonating in Washington this day after the fact that the response by the Secret Service to protecting who they protected in the room that evening has really revealed, I guess, who's important and who isn't. Because you and I, before recording, we spoke about the fact that the former Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein, he wrote on social media after attending the event, quote, I noted a new litmus for status among the government elite, whether you were whisked away by Secret Service or left to fend. So first of all, Bruce, let's just go into who was left to fend, because there's some high. There's some high, highly notable people that
- [14:30]
Bruce Walby
were just like, left behind in the immediate aftermath. It was clear the gunman was not in the room. There were no shots fired in the room. And so people were not going to die by gunshot. These are very quick calculations. Maybe it's just, and people are under table. So maybe it's just who you see and you get them out.
- [14:48]
Interviewer/Host
We do know that, for instance, obviously Secret Service people, of course, went straight for the President. Obviously, we know they're going to do that. We know that Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Was body blocked by three agents as he walked from the ballroom. His wife, Cheryl Hines, was left to follow alone a few feet behind, climbing over barriers in a ball gown. Apparently, Speaker Mike Johnson, he had to send armed officers to retrieve his wife. So I'm just wondering whether this could be sending some shockwaves through the Trump administration. Maybe even impact their loyalty towards him or maga.
- [15:23]
Bruce Walby
The only other time when there's such an assembly of high officials is when the president addresses a joint session of Congress and everyone is in that room and the generals and the Supreme Court and so forth. And then there is a designated survivor cabinet official who is at another location in case a catastrophe of such magnitude occurs. And I think they want to replicate that situation as often as possible. So, yes, but at the same time, the Secret Service under Homeland Security, there's been chaos in the department, including funding, and there's a lot to examine there. It's not being run as tightly as it should be.
- [16:03]
Interviewer/Host
And so what do you think's happening now? Are you hearing any conversations from anybody involved in this or any politicians whatsoever with regards to how this might impact things in advance of these just momentous midterms in November, you know, for which a lot of people are saying, okay, the Democrats are going to gain control of the House, maybe possibly even the Senate.
- [16:25]
Samantha Sellinger Morris
Does this change things?
- [16:26]
Bruce Walby
You know, everything in Washington is political, Sam, and everyone looks at it through a political lens. And going into that night, the polls were terrible for the president. His approval rating is in the 30s. That's a death zone. The war in Iran is very unpopular. Approval of how the president is handling it is also under 30%. Inflation is at a record high. Petrol gasoline prices are at at record highs. And he's really unpopular. So again, I think a slight bump because of how he comported himself in the midst of these events. But the politics are unchanged. The Democrats are in a wave situation where they can take back sufficient seats to take the House. And even the Senate, which has a favorable tilt towards Republicans. And what senators are up for election can also slip to the Democrats. And there's no end to the war. And there's no off ramp is now the most favored expression in Washington. Do you have an off ramp? And he doesn't. And as long as that goes on, it's killing him politically. So we'll be back to normal. Normal transmission very shortly.
- [17:33]
Interviewer/Host
Bruce, you're American, of course, you lived for a large period of your life in the States and you said that. Yes. This is shocking, but not surprising. Yeah. I mean, was any part of you surprised by the fact that this was happening or really not? Is this just one more mark towards. Wow. We are really in a different. Just with regards to you, of course, mentioned the previous attempted assassinations on Donald Trump. Then of course, there was the Charlie Kirk assassination. There's been a lot of violence against elected members of Congress. Then there was, of course, the CEO of that health insurance company who was shot in broad daylight. I mean. Yeah. Is there any part of you that's like, what the hell we do?
- [18:14]
Bruce Walby
We. You know what? Trump is not going to mention gun control. He'll never mention gun control. And there are too many guns. And we're way beyond that. Horse is bolted. Decades ago, I thought when Barack Obama was president that he was really. I was scared to death that he would be assassinated, but he wasn't. And there's no known attempt during the eight years that he was president. So we have this. But I think another aspect of this to look at is the war in Iran. The United States took out the Supreme Leader in Iran and two tiers under the Supreme Leader. I believe Iran wants to assassinate Trump and assassinate as many cabinet officers as possible. So they better be ready for that.
- [18:52]
Interviewer/Host
Wow, that is really stark. And that's so interesting, what you mentioned, that contrast to Barack Obama's eight years in power and no attempted assassination of him, which I think is quite incredible given how much racism there is in the country and that people were quite nervous, I think, about his safety, given that he was the first person of color who was President of the United States. So do you just chalk this up to just how divisive President Trump is or just how divisive, how even further divisive he is in, in his second term as president than the first?
- [19:23]
Bruce Walby
This is where. Yes, because he came back and this is where. This is where we are. And it's going to take a while for the culture in the country to change.
- [19:31]
Interviewer/Host
Like you've mentioned before recording, he's even angry at the Pope. I mean, you know, there's no end to sort of his anger in terms of who he will target.
- [19:37]
Samantha Sellinger Morris
Right.
- [19:38]
Bruce Walby
The divider in chief. So he makes enemies and they will hold him to account one way or another.
- [19:45]
Interviewer/Host
Well, a shocking day for the United States. Thank you so much, Bruce, for your time.
- [19:49]
Bruce Walby
Thank you. A pleasure as always. Thank you so much, Sam.
- [19:56]
Samantha Sellinger Morris
In other news today, driven by jobs figures, housing supply and increase in interest rates. Australian house prices could fall by 11% by 2030, according to new modelling. One third of childcare workers are yet to complete government mandated child safety training, with the deadline for this training expiring
- [20:16]
Interviewer/Host
at the end of August.
- [20:18]
Samantha Sellinger Morris
And young Australians are unlikely to be worse off than their parents over their entire lives, according to groundbreaking research into intergenerational inequity. You can read more@the age.com or smh.comiu. today's episode was produced by Chi Wong. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills, and our podcasts are overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. If you like our show, follow the Morning Edition and leave a review for
- [20:48]
Interviewer/Host
us on Apple or Spotify.
- [20:50]
Samantha Sellinger Morris
Thanks for listening.