Dan Kennedy: And How Does That Make You Feel? - The Moth

Podcast Summary: "Dan Kennedy: And How Does That Make You Feel?"

Podcast Information:

Title: The Moth
Host/Author: The Moth
Episode: Dan Kennedy: And How Does That Make You Feel?
Release Date: May 31, 2010

Summary by [Your Name]

Introduction

In the poignant episode titled "And How Does That Make You Feel?", storyteller Dan Kennedy shares a deeply personal narrative about his journey through therapy, the profound impact of his therapist Milton, and the unexpected tragedy that reshaped his understanding of life and mental health. This story, presented live at The Moth main stage in 2010, explores themes of vulnerability, healing, and the enduring influence of meaningful relationships.

Dan's Struggles in 1998

Dan Kennedy begins by painting a vivid picture of his life in 1998, marked by professional dissatisfaction and personal turmoil. He describes himself as entrenched in a "9 to 5 job that I hated" and stuck in a "terrible relationship" (00:30). Despite being surrounded by friends who were steadily improving their lives—better jobs, stronger relationships, and enhanced living conditions—Dan felt as though he was "living backwards," with his own circumstances deteriorating both personally and professionally.

Seeking Help: Finding Milton

Motivated by his friends' positive transformations through therapy, Dan becomes determined to seek professional help. He notes, "Maybe I should find out what's up with these guys," leading him to schedule an appointment with Milton, a licensed social worker known among his friends (04:15).

Therapy Sessions with Milton

Upon meeting Milton, Dan is struck by his therapist’s unique demeanor—described as a "real southern gentleman," lanky, and impeccably dressed (05:00). Unlike traditional therapists, Milton employs humor as a central component of his counseling approach. Dan shares, "He largely involves making jokes about me. And I kind of get the point through this humor" (07:45). This unconventional method resonates with Dan, who appreciates a more pragmatic approach to therapy.

Milton's Unique Approach

Milton's sessions are characterized by a blend of humor and practical advice. For instance, when discussing Dan's inability to say no, Milton offers a humorous yet insightful response: "Have you ever read A Thousand Times No?" (12:30). This moment exemplifies how Milton uses levity to address serious issues, helping Dan to recognize and confront his behavioral patterns.

Milton also encourages emotional expression in unconventional ways. He instructs Dan to "put on some sad music, get a towel or a handkerchief, and sit down... let the feelings come. And then you move on" (14:50). This method initially feels awkward to Dan, but he gradually understands its value in processing emotions.

Unexpected Tragedy: Milton's Death

A turning point in Dan's story occurs on February 15th, Valentine's Day— a day that already holds emotional weight for him. Dan arrives early for his session, only to find Milton unresponsive in his bathrobe (09:30). In a state of shock and confusion, Dan contacts emergency services, witnesses Milton’s passing, and is left to grapple with immediate grief (11:20).

Processing Grief and Moving Forward

In the aftermath, Dan experiences numbness for a week, struggling to comprehend Milton's absence. Reflecting on Milton's teachings about the finiteness of time and the importance of taking action, Dan begins to process his grief. He recounts, "He said, days are finite. We only have so many. And I kind of look at him and I think, certainly drove that home in this session" (15:00).

Dan attempts to apply Milton’s techniques to his grief. Despite initial reluctance, he follows Milton’s advice to "put on some sad music" and allow himself to feel his emotions, ultimately finding a path forward (16:00).

Reflection on Milton's Impact

Dan reflects on the profound influence Milton had on his life. He acknowledges the positive changes he achieved through therapy—cessation of drinking, progress in his writing career, and the establishment of a lasting, fulfilling relationship. Dan mentions, "I'll be dedicating [my first book] to him" (14:10), highlighting Milton's enduring legacy in his personal and professional growth.

Conclusion

Dan Kennedy's heartfelt story underscores the transformative power of authentic human connections and the essential role of mental health support. Through his relationship with Milton, Dan illustrates the delicate balance between humor and vulnerability in healing. The episode serves as a testament to how one person's guidance can leave an indelible mark, shaping the contours of another's life even in their absence.

Notable Quotes:

"Maybe I should have a better plan for my mental health than just bumping into this guy at parties." — Dan Kennedy (02:20)
"He largely involves making jokes about me. And I kind of get the point through this humor." — Dan Kennedy (07:45)
"Have you ever read A Thousand Times No?" — Milton (12:30)
"Days are finite. We only have so many. And I kind of look at him and I think, certainly drove that home in this session." — Dan Kennedy (15:00)

Sections:

Introduction
Dan's Struggles in 1998
Seeking Help: Finding Milton
Therapy Sessions with Milton
Milton's Unique Approach
Unexpected Tragedy: Milton's Death
Processing Grief and Moving Forward
Reflection on Milton's Impact
Conclusion

This structured summary captures the essence of Dan Kennedy's moving story, highlighting the key moments and emotional beats that make his experience both relatable and inspiring for listeners.

Transcript

Dan Kennedy (0:00)

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Jay Allison (1:08)

Welcome to the Moth Podcast. I'm Dan Kennedy and the Moth features true stories told live without notes. All stories from the podcast are taken from our ongoing storytelling series in New York, Los Angeles, and from our tour shows across the country. Visit themoth.org hi, this is Jay Allison up on Cape Cod in Massachusetts. Right now, we're producing our second batch of stories for the Moth Radio Hour. To hear the Moth Radio Hour on the air, contact your local public radio station and find out when they'll be airing it. We hope you like it. Thanks. The story you're about to hear was recorded live at the Moth main stage in 2010. The theme of the night was stories of the nearly and dearly departed. And this story, oh, is from me, actually. So a couple months ago, I guess I walk into this party in New York and I see this guy and I see him around at a lot of different parties. I see him at a lot of different events and he's a therapist and I always go over to him and I say hello because I gravitate towards therapists at parties. And I actually, sadly consider this progress. I go up to him, I say hello, and we talk for like, you know, maybe five minutes. And I feel better every time I see this guy and I bump into him at a party. I say hello to him. I'm in a better mood and I think to myself, maybe I should have a better plan for my mental health than Just bumping into this guy at parties. And I think maybe I should go back to therapy. But I don't really want to go back to therapy, I don't think, because I had. My thing was I was in therapy for years. I had such a clean break with it. Like I got the tools I needed to sort of go off and not have to do it anymore. And it came to a really clean end. And I don't take it for granted because I hear a lot of people talk about therapy and they never quite know when it ends. You know, it's like, do you think you're ready for it to end? I don't know. Do you think I'm thinking I'm ready for it to end? Because you think I thought that or. And this can go on for years. So before I get back in that situation, you know, I really need to think about it. See, in 1998, my life wasn't going super hot. And by that I mean I was working at like a 9 to 5 job that I hated. I was in a terrible relationship, really. I mean, great person. Things were just on a downhill slide for a long time. Largely helped by me, I'm sure. Also, I wasn't really doing anything that I love. My idea of writing, which is something I said I wanted to do, was to go to restaurants after my 9 to 5 job let out and just drink lots of like mid priced cocktails and eat really bad appetizers and talk about how I'm probably a genius, you know, which is not really the hallmark of genius, ironically enough. So I had this group of friends and their lives all seemed to get like better as time went on. Not in any necessarily big flashy way, but like their apartments got nicer as time went by, their relationships got stronger as life went by, their jobs got better, they got promoted, they did more interesting things. As time went by, I was like sort of living backwards. As time went by, my apartments got smaller and worse. And as time went by, my relationships, they ended, you know, frankly. And I thought, well, maybe I should find out what's up with these guys. The one thing they all had in common is they talked to this guy named Milton. So I'm real sleuth, like. And I'm like, I watched this for like another year and I'm like, maybe I should talk to Milton. So I go, would it be weird if I talk to Melton? They go, it wouldn't be weird at all. You know, you should call him up, you know, get an appointment. So I go, great. I Call this guy up. I get an appointment. I'm going to see him Fridays at 6:30. So great. I go in, I meet him. He looks like, you know, sort of like a real southern gentleman from this other era. He's very, very lanky. He's tall. He's an older guy, gray wears suits, real like dapper dresser. And so we start this thing. And I like the fact that he's not a therapist. He's a licensed social worker. He's a counselor. Right. Which really fits with my sort of like nuts and bolts approach to this. Like, I'm not going to be laying on a Mies, you know, van der Rohe daybed, like mumbling about luxury problems, clearly. So this is right up my alley. So. And he has this like, really sort of special sort of method, you know, it largely involves making jokes about me. And I kind of get the point through this humor. And so, you know, I talk to him about things. I go, you know, tell him, you know, whatever I'm going through, like. Because I never knew how to say no. For instance, like I would always just say yes. So it's like, you know, if I'm out to dinner with somebody that I don't, I can tell is trouble. And they go, you want to be in a relationship? I'm like, yes. Yeah, it sounds fun. Even though I'm not nuts about being at dinner with you. Let's get. Give this one to three years. And you know, it would be like, would you like this job for this salary? And I'd think, how the hell am I going to live on that in New York City? And I'd go like, yes, thank you very much. You know, that'll be fine. So I was telling Milton about this one time and he goes, oh, well, have you ever read A Thousand Times no. And I'm thinking, oh, God, here comes like the cheesy self help book assignment, right? But I want to be like, willing and get my life together and all that shit. So I'm like, oh, gosh, you know, I have. I haven't read that, but I'm really willing to get a copy and check it out. I go, I will definitely buy one. I'm thinking like, no. And he goes, oh, hang on. I think I've got a copy in the other room. And I'm like, fuck. Terrific. All right, great. So he comes back with this 8 1/2 by 11 sheet of paper. And it just says no a thousand times on it. And he thought this was pretty funny. And I kind of thought I Think I like this dude? Like, this is gonna work. I told him. I was telling him, like, something about a terrible week I had had. And I was like, you know, this isn't going great. My job sucks, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he goes, how many beers did you have this week? And I'm like, well, I mean, I get what you're saying. It wasn't a total write off. Like, I got to have some beers, you know, Like, I get it. Don't be negative, you know? So I was like, well, yeah, it's true. I did get to have some beers. And then I was like, oh, wait a minute. Are you saying there's, like a link between my drinking and things not going well for me? And he leans back and he goes, well, you're part Irish, your last name's Kennedy, and all your heroes are writers, so let's just keep an eye on it. I was like, I get what you're saying there. And it planted this seed, you know, his humor sort of like planted this seed. So I thought, all right. And I had been writing things. They were terrible. They were. As the time went by, they were mostly, like, very. Not commercially viable things, very short things on the Internet. Like, I wrote a piece called Rejected Riddles by Depressives, you know, and what I would have said to Sylvia Plath had I been her boyfriend, you know, gems like this. But occasionally I would get these emails from, like, junior editors at publishers, and I would sort of tell him about that. Say, today this, like, junior editor at a publisher emailed me. It kind of made me feel like I'm doing something. And he's like, oh, they're rolling out the red carpet for you, young man. I'm like, what? I'm like, no, that's not even. You know, forget it. It's not even why I mentioned it. But the other sort of awkward thing is that. Well, two things, really. He taught me to cry, sort of apropos of nothing. And I found that a little awkward. He was like, you know, sometimes when things get painful, what I do is I put on some sad music, I get a towel or a handkerchief, and I sit down on the couch and I let the feelings come. And then you move on. And I was like, okay, like, you know, that's great for you. I will never be using that, you know, by the way. And he also had this weird thing with his humor. He started getting into stand up comedy at age 65, which made for a weird relationship sometimes because he, like, finished this session where you're talking about all this stuff. And he would go like, well, you know, I'm afraid we're out of time, but if you got five minutes, I'd like to show you this DVD of the set I did at Caroline's on Tuesday. And you'd literally be like, standing in the living room, sort of like after you, like, talked about all this really intimate stuff. And you'd be like, this is pretty good about how, like, women don't care about you or whatever, you know, like, ah, that's a good joke, I guess. Like, it's a little weird. Sir, I should go now. So I should also mention that one of the ways I start to realize that I'm close to somebody is I find myself thinking about their death a lot. And I know most folks, you probably just look at the beautiful person across from me at the table and go, I. I care about you. You're very special to me. I, on the other hand, just get quiet and start imagining them dead and how sad I'll be when that happens. So, needless to say, like, Valentine's Day is a pretty loaded holiday for me. It's like sort of long, morose, quiet day where I'm just like, re envisioning someone I really love's funeral and getting depressed. So Valentine's Day, 2002, the day after it, I have a session. So I get there early, February 15th. I think I want to be on time for this. It's probably going to be a little bit loaded after this sick holiday that people have. And I get there, I buzz the door. Milton's not answering, so it's a little bit weird. Buzz it again. He's still not answering. I wait five minutes, buzz it. No answer. Call him on his cell phone. He's not answering. So I go, hmm, this is really weird. So I'm thinking about it, and I'm like, well, I gotta take some kind of action. He always taught me that time is finite and you have to always take action. That's what keeps you from getting sad and sort of stagnant. So I'm like, ah, ringing again. I guess that's action. I ring it again, nothing's happening. Cleaning lady comes running down and she goes, come quick. It's Milton. Come quick. And I go, oh, shit. Like, I. I didn't sign up for any of this. This is terrible. So I go in, I start running up the stairs. I'm thinking, I don't want to wait for the elevator. And I'm thinking, I don't know what I'm running into. But I just keep thinking what he said to me. Always move forward. Always choose activity. So I'm charging up the steps, going, I don't know what the hell I'm going to do. And I'm thinking, well, I always said when you go forward, you'll be able to intuitively handle what used to baffle you. So I'm going, jesus. Okay, okay. So I get up there, I look around, I call his name. I don't see him anywhere. Then suddenly I see him, and he's in his bathrobe still. I'm like, that's really weird. I mean, he's not normal for him at all. I go, milton, Milton. I call his name. He doesn't respond. I run up to him and I feel him. And I go, oh, my God. And he's dead. And I just think he's just left. It's just that simple. He's gone, but he kind of left this here. So I'm like, I don't know what to do. So who do you call? Like, the police? It seems a little silly. An ambulance? It's too late for that. So I think, well, just call 911. They'll intuitively know how to handle this. So I call them and I go, who do you send for something like this? They go, we'll send an ambulance and medical examiner. And I go, okay, all right, cool. So that's handled. In the time it takes them to get there, I have like 10 minutes to kind of sit and just say goodbye. And I'm sitting, and I'm thinking about how much better my life has gotten because of this man over the years. You know, I've not been drinking over the years. I've been doing my writing. I at the time, now have my first book contract. And my first book is coming out in just a few months at this time. And I realize I'll be dedicating it to him. And I'm in a great relationship at this point, one that I'm still in 11 years later. And I'm thinking of all the things he changed in all the other people's lives, all my friends lives that he's touched and that he's changed and thinking. It's amazing. And then I think about how he said, days are finite. We only have so many. And I kind of look at him and I think, certainly drove that home in this session. Sir. The medical examiner comes, and I say one final goodbye and I take off. And for the week after that, I was numb. I didn't really feel anything. And this kind of surprised me. But like a week later, I'm in the apartment and something's happening. I'm going, oh, like, he's not coming back. There's not going to be any more Friday nights at 6:30. This is. He's totally gone. I'm like, oh, no. I'm having, like, feelings. Oh, no. Okay. All right. Right, right. He told me what to do. So I go into the bathroom. I get a towel. Okay, get a towel. I'll sit on the edge of the couch. He's like, all right. Music. You have to put on, like, sad classical music. I don't have any sad classical music. I look through my CDs, it's all pretty much punk rock. So I'm like, I'm gonna put on Black Flag or Fear and Weep Violently. And that's going to be more disturbing than what I went through, I think. But my girlfriend had this CD of this guy who just. I never saw the point of it. He just plays this cello and it just goes forever. I mean forever, like in the key of like D. Sad. It's just like the most brim notes and they go forever. And I thought that now I know why this man made his record. I put it in the CD player, I get my towel, I sit, the feelings come, I feel them, and then I move forward. Thanks.