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The Moth
Jamie Johnson: Fable of Fortune
00:16:28
When the heir to the Johnson & Johnson fortune makes a highly acclaimed documentary about being rich, his father’s unexpected feedback is what sticks with him the most. Jamie Johnson is a documentary filmmaker and the great-grandson of the founder of t...
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- [00:00]
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Dan Kennedy
Welcome to the Moth Podcast. I'm Dan Kennedy and the Moth features true stories told live without notes. All stories from the podcast are taken from our ongoing storytelling series in New York, Los Angeles and from our tour shows across the country. Visit themoth.org this podcast is brought to you by audible.com which is a provider of audiobooks with more than 60,000 downloadable titles across all types of literature, including fiction, nonfiction and periodicals. For listeners of the Moth Podcast, Audible is offering a free audiobook to give you a chance to try out their service. One Book to Consider is Fun With Problems Stories by Robert Stone. Publishers Weekly says Stone's evocative prose treads through the murky waters of dead dreams and waning hopes, bringing out the side of people warped by addiction, sex, violence and time. That's Fun with Problems Stories by Robert Stone to download a free audiobook of your choice, go to audible.comthemost that's audible.comthemost the story you're about to hear by Jamie Johnson was told live at the New York Public Library on June 15, 2005. The theme of the night was up down in Stories about Class in America.
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Jamie Johnson
My great grandfather founded the Johnson and Johnson Pharmaceutical Company. I was born rich. My father was born rich, and my grandfather was born rich. And a few years ago I broke a cardinal rule amongst the wealthy. I started to talk about social class, and my way of doing that was to make a film about 10 kids from vastly wealthy families. And I included myself. The title of the film was very predictably Born Rich. And for the last year, I've been working on a new documentary, a documentary about the unequal distribution of wealth in America and the favored few Americans who own roughly 40% of the country's wealth. And my research for that film has taken me to some pretty strange and fascinating places. About six months ago, I was invited to a dinner on the Upper west side. And I didn't know anyone who was attending. And the dinner was for. The only thing I knew about it was that the dinner was for, and I quote when I say this, a group of progressive rich people who had a community space for healing and support. Now, anytime I hear rich people start to talk about a deep rooted need for healing and support, admittedly I get a little bit skeptical. But I went uptown with an open mind and thought, you know, I may meet some amazing people and get some interesting insights for my new project. So I walk into this massive townhouse in the West 70s off Central park, and it's a beautiful living room. It's huge. And they have a wonderful collection of paintings and sculpture. And I walk in and people are sitting around having a bite, tea, hanging out. And I introduce myself and chat for a bit. And then a woman stands up, she says she's the leader of this organization, and she asks us all to sit on the floor, Indian style, in a circle, holding hands. And I'm kind of like, okay, you know, I was a sheltered kid, I'm a rich kid, I didn't go to camp much or anything when I was younger. So I figure I'll just go with it, you know, I'm staying open minded. And we sit down and then she says she wants us all to go around in a circle and introduce ourselves and tell a story about the damaging emotional impact that goes along with having a lot of money. And she points to this guy straight across from me and she asks him to go first. And he kind of sits there and has an anxious look on his face. And then he says, hi, I'm John and I'm rich. And everyone around in the circle immediately goes, hi, John, welcome. Glad to have you here, good job. And I'm kind of sitting there nodding, just mimicking everyone trying to figure out what's going on, going, hi, John, welcome, welcome. Yeah, glad you're here. And then people start to go around the circle and they start introducing themselves and they start telling their stories, and they're crazy stories. I mean, one guy starts talking about having his first sexual experience with his housekeeper. And another girl says that she can't find a financial advisor that understands her emotional needs. And I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, oh, my God, it's going to be my turn soon. And I don't know what to say. I mean, I don't have a great story. I'll probably have to make one up, you know? Well, maybe I'll just sit there and tell them that I hated living in a big house and I hated going to great schools, and I hated having lots of cool stuff around all the time. And then I think, no, no, no, I can't do that. They'll know I'm lying. I don't want to get caught in a lie. And my turn's next. And I think, well, whatever. People are talking about things that are related to their family, and some of them aren't great. I'll just tell them about the first documentary I made and some of the conflicts it caused for me. It's not great, but it's all I got. I've got no choice. So I start, and at first my comments are a bit stilted and stiff, and I start to tell them that I made this film about rich kids and it really bothered a lot of people in my community. A lot of my friends got really mad at me for it. And my father always told me from an early age never to talk about money. And then I hear people in the background and they're going, way to share, Jamie. Let it out. Great job. And all of a sudden, I start to get into it, and I wanted to stop there. I didn't want to say much, but I couldn't help myself. Their encouragement and support was kind of seductive. So I keep going and I tell them, you know, I tell them more about this film. I tell them that I included my dad in my documentary against his wishes, and that he was so mad at me that we hadn't talked in months and we hadn't spoken since the opening of the film, which was months and months ago. And I didn't really know what to do about it. And I even went one step further, and I told him that the reason why I was there was that I was making this other movie, and I wanted my father to be in that film, too, but he was so pissed off at me that we weren't talking and he refused to. So I couldn't even bring up the subject. And people were saying, jamie, you and your father are in a state of dis ease. You need healing. Call Your father, Jamie and I start going, okay, I've got it. You're right. Yeah. You know, at this point I'm kind of like, I gotta call my dad. And I walk out of that night completely 12 stepped out. I have, you know, two thoughts on my mind. I'm thinking, yeah, I mean, if things like this keep happening to me, I've got great material for my new film and I don't have to worry about making a good follow up project to Born Rich. And secondly, that within their madness lay a certain wisdom about my dad. And I probably should try and patch things up with him. So his 60th birthday was coming up right around the corner, and I knew it was a perfect opportunity to smooth things over. But I was kind of pissed at him because I was like, he's being such a child about this and so immature that I don't want to go. Eventually I went and it was a huge party. There were about 200 of his closest friends there. I mean, rich people never seem to be short on friends when they're having a big celebration. And that night, my dad was no exception to the rule. So everyone's sitting around at tables at the seated dinner, and they're telling old stories about my father. And this one guy stands up and he's the local Episcopalian minister, and he takes the level of sycophancy to a whole new level. And he says he wants everybody to join him in prayer for my dad. And I'm sitting at this table and all of a sudden everyone nods their heads and they reach out their hands and I sit there and I find myself sitting in a circle again, holding hands with people and thinking about my father and indulging in this like, pseudo spiritual ineffectual weirdness. And I was kind of resistant to it all, but I figure I'm here to solve the problem, I just go with it. And I went with everything that that night, you know, I tried to be as charming as I possibly could. I was nice to all of my parents, friends, I did all the right things, I talked to all the right people. And at the end of the night, everyone kind of cleared out and went home. And my father was feeling particularly nostalgic and he'd had a few drinks, which in my household definitely makes for more cordial family conversations. So I approach him and we start chatting. And he's pretty open to me and I think, this is great. Well, I'm gonna bring up our conflict. And I say, dad, why haven't we talked recently? And he said, you Know what, Jamie? You shouldn't have made that movie. You did the wrong thing, and I didn't want to be in it. And I said, well, you know, Dad, I really actually thought it was important. And it got a fairly good response. And you should probably know I'm making another one. And it's about similar subject. And he said, you just don't get it, Jamie. You just don't understand. There's a reason why rich people don't talk about money. There's a reason why it's unspoken. And I said, okay, fine. I'm totally open to that. What is the reason? Just tell me. I've been curious about this, and I wanted to talk to you about this. And he said, you just don't know. And I thought, no, I don't. You know, tell me. And he was kind of serious, and he's like, I can't. And we were sitting in his study, and at that point, we're just silent for a while. And then he walks over to a bookshelf and he grabs something, and he comes back and he hands it to me. And I'm thinking, what is this? And I grab it and I look down, and it's a VHS tape, and there's a date on it. It doesn't say anything else. There's just a date. And it says 1972. And I'm thinking, what is this? But at that moment, things were kind of intense. And it was almost one of those things where it was like, be careful what you wish for. You just might get it. I'd wanted to relate to my father in a real way. And all of a sudden we were. But it was, like, new for us, so it was almost too much. Neither of us could really handle it. We didn't know what to say. And the conversation didn't really resolve itself. He just kind of walked out of the room. And I sat there with this tape, and we were both a little bugged out. And later that night, I decided to watch the movie. And I put it into the vcr, and I start watching it. And it's a documentary film, and it's a film that's critical of Johnson and Johnson's involvement in South Africa under apartheid. And I'm thinking, what is this? And I watch the movie to the end, and the credits start rolling, and it says, producer James L. Johnson, which is my father's name. And at that moment, I was confused for a second, but. But I started to get it. I started to realize why he was so conflicted and that the problem was much more complicated than I had actually thought with him. And part of me wanted to run upstairs. He'd gone to sleep at that moment, and wake him up and ask him and say, what is this? What happened? But I didn't. I waited till the next time we saw each other, and I brought it up and I said, hey, I saw the film, I saw your name in the credits. What's the story? What happened? And he told me about it. He told me that when he was a young man, he'd made a documentary, unbeknownst to his family, that was very critical of Johnson and Johnson's involvement in South Africa under apartheid. And he told me that because of the bad press, the tape had gotten back around to the people at Johnson and Johnson, and the executives had seen his name in the credits just as I did. And the CEO called him up and called him into the company to reprimand him. And he did. He told my father, I think you're wrong. I think you did the wrong thing, Jim. We don't know what you were thinking about. And he said to my dad, life isn't going to go well for you if you keep working against the world that you're a part of. And my father had a choice to make at that point in his life, and he chose to change. And for my whole life, I've known a father who's never worked against the world that he's a part of. And in some ways, that's the ultimate benefit of being really rich. You can always take the path of least resistance and have a very smooth life. And I think in some ways my father did. And as a result of that, he lived a bit of a limited life. But, you know, now I have his example. And thanks to his example, I don't have to live my life that way. Thank you.
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Dan Kennedy
Jamie Johnson is a documentary filmmaker and the great grandson of the founder of the Johnson and John Johnson pharmaceutical company. His HBO productions, Born Rich and the one percent, examine wealth and social class in our culture. This podcast is brought to you by Audible.com, the Internet's leading provider of audiobooks with more than 60,000 downloadable titles across all types of literature. For a free audiobook, including Fun with Problems by Robert stone, go to audible.com themoth the moth is a non profit organization, so consider supporting our free podcast by going to our podcast contribution page or by becoming a Moth member and you can do that@themost.org and now you can also stream the Moth podcast on your smartphone. Visit stitcher.com to download the free application. You can also buy moth stories on CD, including today's story, which is featured on Audience Favorites Volume 3. To learn more about this and all of the moth's upcoming shows and our corporate events and training program, Visit our website, themoth.org Our podcast host, Dan Kennedy.
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Rosetta Stone Advertiser
Is the author of the book Rock.
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Dan Kennedy
An Office Power Ballad. Learn more@rockonthebook.com thanks to all of you for listening and we hope you have a story worthy week. Podcast audio production by Paul Ruest at the Argo Studios in New York Podcast hosting by PRX Public Radio Exchange Helping make public Radio more public@prx.org.