Jen Lee & Matthew Dicks: StorySLAM Favorites

Summary

The Moth Podcast: Jen Lee & Matthew Dicks – StorySLAM Favorites

Release Date: September 30, 2014

Introduction

In the September 30, 2014 episode of The Moth podcast, host Dan Kennedy introduces two compelling stories from The Moth StorySLAM series. The episode, titled “Jen Lee & Matthew Dicks: StorySLAM Favorites,” delves into deeply personal narratives centered around the themes of motherhood and envy. Both storytellers share poignant, relatable experiences that highlight the complexities of parenting and the subtle challenges of growing up in poverty.

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Jen Lee: Navigating Motherhood and Open Conversations

Live in New York, 2012 – Theme: Mothers

Jen Lee opens her story by reflecting on a pivotal moment from her childhood that unexpectedly shapes her approach to motherhood. She recounts an incident from fifth grade, triggered by a school lesson on reproductive science that required her mother to have a candid discussion about human biology—a topic Jen's family had traditionally approached with great reservation.

“It just came out of nowhere like a freight train and hit me. And it was just all bad news. It was just all very, very, very bad news.” (05:30)

Jen describes her mother's attempt to educate her about the male and female reproductive systems using a World Book Encyclopedia. Coming from a conservative religious background, Jen was unprepared for the explicitness of the information presented, leading to confusion and anxiety.

Fast forward to a morning when Jen’s eight-year-old daughter interrupts her routine with a biology question about sperm cells. Jen’s initial reaction is one of panic—“hell no, we are not having this conversation right now.” (07:45)—as she's juggling morning routines and school preparations. However, this unexpected query forces her to confront her own unresolved experiences.

After a brief and unproductive discussion with her daughter's teacher, Jen realizes the importance of maintaining an open dialogue with her child. She eventually sits down with her daughter to explain the basics of human reproduction, mirroring the unpreparedness she felt as a child. This moment becomes a catalyst for Jen to rethink her role as a mother.

“I get that being a good mother isn't about one moment that you get wrong or right. But it's about just willing to be in this conversation forever, being willing to figure it out as we go.” (10:55)

Jen’s narrative emphasizes the ongoing nature of parenting, highlighting that effective motherhood involves continuous learning and adaptation. She draws parallels between her own upbringing and her current parenting style, showcasing a desire to break generational patterns and foster a more open, honest relationship with her daughter.

Key Insights:

• The impact of childhood experiences on parenting styles.
• The necessity of open communication between parents and children.
• Overcoming generational gaps in discussing sensitive topics.

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Matthew Dicks: The Hidden Struggles of Poverty and the Mask of Competence

Live in Boston, 2013 – Theme: Envy

Matthew Dicks delivers a heartfelt account of his realization of poverty during his early school years. In fourth grade, during a lunch count led by Mrs. Laverne, Matthew is identified as a student receiving free lunch for the first time, a moment that sparks an acute awareness of his family's financial struggles.

“Up until that moment, I really hadn't realized that my family was poor.” (11:40)

Matthew describes the subtle humiliation and competitive environment of being poor, especially in the 1980s—a time when poverty was less visible compared to today. He recounts practical strategies he employed to conceal his economic status, such as hiding the quality of his clothes and improvising during Boy Scout camping trips to hide his inadequate gear.

An illustrative anecdote involves Matthew racing his friend Peter on their bicycles. Equipped with a battered Huffy bike versus Peter’s shiny 10-speed, the race starkly symbolizes the material disparities between them.

“Up until that point, I had had this idealized version of life where effort and intelligence and creativity and hard work will always overcome whatever material lacking you may have.” (14:50)

Despite his relentless effort, Matthew realizes that no amount of hard work can bridge the gap created by economic disparity. This epiphany leads to an emotional breakdown, underscoring the deep-seated impact of poverty on his self-esteem and social interactions.

“I cried the whole ride home.” (17:20)

Matthew's story sheds light on the invisible burdens carried by children in impoverished households. It highlights the lengths to which individuals go to mask their struggles and the profound emotional toll that concealed poverty can exact.

Key Insights:

• The early awareness and impact of poverty on self-perception.
• Coping mechanisms developed to conceal economic hardships.
• The emotional consequences of financial disparities among peers.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Moth masterfully weaves together two distinct yet emotionally resonant stories that explore fundamental human experiences—motherhood and poverty. Jen Lee’s narrative underscores the importance of ongoing communication and adaptability in parenting, while Matthew Dicks’ story poignantly illustrates the hidden struggles of growing up in poverty and the emotional resilience it demands.

Both storytellers offer valuable insights into their personal journeys, inviting listeners to empathize and reflect on their own lives. The episode serves as a testament to The Moth’s ability to transform personal anecdotes into universal stories that resonate deeply with a diverse audience.

Notable Quotes:

• Jen Lee on unexpected parenting challenges: “It was just all bad news. It was just all very, very, very bad news.” (05:30)
• Jen Lee on the essence of good motherhood: “being a good mother isn't about one moment that you get wrong or right. But it's about just willing to be in this conversation forever, being willing to figure it out as we go.” (10:55)
• Matthew Dicks on realizing poverty: “Up until that moment, I really hadn't realized that my family was poor.” (11:40)
• Matthew Dicks on the illusion of effort overcoming material lack: “I had had this idealized version of life where effort and intelligence and creativity and hard work will always overcome whatever material lacking you may have.” (14:50)
• Matthew Dicks on his emotional response: “I cried the whole ride home.” (17:20)

Through these stories, The Moth continues to illuminate the shared human condition, fostering a deeper understanding and connection among its listeners.

Transcript

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[Dan Kennedy]

Welcome to the Moth Podcast. I'm Dan Kennedy. It's fall again and the leaves are changing. Wow, where am I going with this? I guess what I'm trying to say is that here on the Moth podcast we have two back to school stories for you from our Slam series. The first story is from Jen Lee, and she told this live here in New York in 2012. The theme of the night was mothers.

[Jen Lee]

So often we have these moments that seem to capture everything that went right or everything that went wrong with our childhood. And the night before our talk in fifth grade, our lesson on reproductive science, they sent home a letter to the parents letting them know this would be happening the next day. And at bedtime, my mother walked into my bedroom with a World Book Encyclopedia and sat down on the bed next to me and she turned up into the human body section and flipped past all those, like, transparent overlay pages right until she got to the male and female reproductive organs. And I had this really conservative religious upbringing, so the closest I come to seeing, you know, my only experience with the naked male form was the one time the neighbor boy flashed me when I was five years old. And what he had going on did not look anything like this diagram that my mother was showing me. And she starts to go through and names, you know, naming these body parts I've never even heard of. And her fingers are tracing pathways and she's explaining how sex works. And then she's explaining about puberty, which I've never heard of before. And then she's telling me about periods which I never saw coming in my family. We didn't even have so much as like, a box of tampons under the bathroom sink to allude to any of this. It just, it just all came out of nowhere like a freight train and hit me. And it was just all bad news. It was just all very, very, very bad news. And. And, you know, when you become a mother, you just think, I want to do it better. And I wanted to do so many things better, but especially at this piece, I really didn't want to fuck it up, you know. And so my heart just stopped a little a few weeks ago when I was 7:30am on a Wednesday morning. And in the next room I hear my 8 year old daughter say, daddy, can you explain to me how sperm cells work? Because I know that they fertilize egg cells, but I can't figure out how they get to them. And my very first thought is like, hell no, we are not having this conversation right now. It is crunch time. It's a school morning. We have girls to feed and clothes to put on and lunches to pack, and only 30 minutes before it's time to get the first one out the door to the bus stop. So I run into the next room and I just say, it's time to get ready for school. And then I try really cool just to ask a few questions, like, so you know, what's with this sperm cell questions like, where's that coming from? Studying that in school. And she's like, yeah. And I'm like, what species? And she's like, human. And I'm thinking, you're in third grade, you're in third grade. And so I'm like, so where did this come from? She's like, oh, it's in all of our books at school. Which sounds like an exaggeration to me. And so I just say, you know, we don't really have time to have this conversation right now, but I'm going to check in with your teacher. Let's touch base later. So after school, my youngest daughter and I go to pick her up and she says, Mom, Ms. Martin wants to talk to you. And I had sent Ms. Martin an email just saying, you know, can you fill me in? I just want to, you know, know what's happening over there. And so I say, okay, stay here with your sister. And I go down to Ms. Martin, who is like, I'm so sorry, I have no idea where this has come from. We do not teach this. I don't think we teach this ever in any grade. And she goes, there's just this one paragraph in this one book in our classroom library. And she hands me this giant human body book that she bought on clearance as a bargain book at Barnes and Noble. It still has the price tag and it looks like a book we would have in our house. And she goes, you can borrow it if you want. So I'm like, okay. So I take the book and I go back to the girls. My daughter says, well. And I said, well what? And she goes, well, didn't Ms. Martin tell you? Did she tell you how sperm cells work? And so I say, well, you know, I already know because I've gone to school, and I said, here's the thing. And I remind her about how she's still the age where she covers her eyes every time Mike kisses Carol in old episodes of the Brady Bunch and says, ooh, grows. And so I'm like, you know, I don't really know if you want to know just yet. And so I'm just. I've got that on my mind. And I know maybe they'll talk about this later. And I think. And she seems satisfied for the moment. And I think I've dodged the bullet. I fly to Berkeley to teach a workshop, and I get home and my husband says, you know, while you were gone, she's been spending a lot of time with her visual dictionary. I think she's just about got it figured out. And so then I know, like, I really can't avoid this. So we sit down one day after school. Me and my daughter, with her scientific little mind, has got to know how everything works. And I'm naming the body parts, and I'm telling her how things go. And I'm tracing my finger across the fallopian tubes, and I'm having this memory of my mother making the same motion. And I'm wondering if. If her mother ever had this conversation with her or not, or if she just was making it up for me. And I asked her if she has any questions, and she does, because one of her friends says, sometimes boys put their mouth on the girls parts, and girls put their mouth on the boys parts. And I'm like, you know, when people say sex, there's a lot of different ways that that works, but this is how reproduction works. And she said, well, what are all the ways? And she's eight. And so I'm like, I just can't do that today. I'm sorry. But what I say to her is, you know, babe, we're going to be having this conversation, like, forever, so we can figure out some things as we go. And in my neighborhood, I seem like a young mom, but I'm not really compared to the mothers before me. My mom had me at 19, her mother had her at 17. My grandmother was 36 when I was born. And I'm thinking of both of them while we're having this conversation. And I'm thinking that we all have things that we don't know how to talk about and topics that we're just pioneering. And my daughter closes her dictionary and takes it off to her room. And I think for the first time, I get that being a good mother isn't about one moment that you get wrong or right. But it's about just willing to be in this conversation forever, being willing to figure it out as we go. Thanks.

[Dan Kennedy]

Jen Lee is the director and producer of a documentary about creative collaboration among independent artists called Indie Kindred. You can find out more at her website, Jen leproductions.com and we'll get into our second story now. This one is from Matthew Dix. He told this live in Boston in 2013. The theme of the night was envy.

[Matthew Dix]

So I first realized that I was poor in Mrs. Laverne's fourth grade class. It was the second or third day of school and she was taking the lunch count and she asked how many kids were buying hot lunch and a bunch of hands went up and then she asked how many kids were buying cold lunch and some more hands went up and then she asked how many kids are getting free lunch? Not buying, but getting. And my hand went up as it had for the last three years. And Derrick Reynolds, who was sitting behind me, leaned over and said, how do you get free lunch? And he didn't say it mean. He was kind of like trying to get in on the deal somehow. And I didn't know. I had just been raising my hand since first grade for free hot lunch. And so Denise Laporte, who is sitting to my right, said, matt's family doesn't have a lot of money. And she didn't say it mean either. She was like, ronald Reagan is president and Matt's family does not have a lot of money. And up until that moment, I really hadn't realized that my family was poor. But we were now. We weren't destitute. I did not go hungry as a child, but I was always hungry. There was food on the table, but the portions were small and to get seconds, you had to eat really fast. I had two brothers and two sisters, and it really was a competition to see who could get to the next meal. During summers, my mother would make us for lunch. Our lunch would be a sandwich, a bologna sandwich. It would be two slices of Wonder bread, a piece of bologna, and ketchup put in the shape of a smiley face to somehow enhance the product that was being presented to us. I have a 4 year old now who basically only eats grilled cheese. And to this day, when I open my refrigerator and I see the American cheese, which was a product I did not have as a child, I really see it as like a delicacy. And I honestly think, like, as long as there's American cheese in my refrigerator, I'M doing okay now. When you're poor, one of the keys is, I grew up in the 80s, and it's a terrible time to be poor. Like today, if you're poor, you can go to the thrift shop and you can buy vintage clothing and you can be cool, or you can buy clothes from 20 years ago and wear it ironically and be a hipster. But in the 80s, you had to wear the right thing. And the difference between Levi's and Lee jeans cannot be understated. You would rather have one pair of Levi's than a thin thousand pairs of Lee jeans. And I had a thousand pairs of my cousin's Lee jeans. And all you want to do when you're poor like that is to not let anyone else know. So you develop strategies to hide your poorness from the people around you. So when I would go on Boy Scout camping trips, I never had the equipment I needed. My sleeping bag was terrible for winter campouts, but I knew that homeless people would take newspapers and stuff their clothes with them because it was good insulation. So I would take newspapers to camping trips, and I would tell my friends it was for the sports pages. And then when they went to sleep, I would roll it into balls and stuff my sleeping bag with it to stay warm, because you just don't want people to know. And my friends, they all had the Atari 2600, which was popular back then. And we played a game called Adventure, which your small pixelated square would move through a pixelated castle, avoiding pixelated dragons. And my friends were great at it, but I didn't have an Atari. I didn't have anything. So what I did is I'd play the game, and then I'd go home, and on graph paper, I would draw the castle as best as I could remember it until I had a full graphical representation of the castle. And then I would memorize it, and I would literally play Adventure on the paper without the joystick, so that when I returned to my friend's house, I was a master of the game because I knew what was going to be in every room. And these are the kinds of things that you do when you're poor to hide your problems. And it wasn't so bad. I viewed poverty as like an adventure. It was a challenge. It was constantly trying to figure out a way to get through and. And succeed. And then one day, my friend Peter, on our Shambeau and I were riding from his house to my house on our bikes. He was coming over for dinner, and he lived a couple miles from me and he had a brand new 10 speed bike and I had a rusted iron Huffy with knobby nails that weighed probably 60 pounds. And I had always been competitive with Peter on our bikes and. And so he hopped on his 10 speed and I got on my Huffy and we raced to my house. And within 30 seconds Peter was 50 yards ahead of me. And so I started pumping really hard like if my heart could have exploded that day, that's how hard I pumped those wheels. I rode like I had never ridden before. And I could not catch up to Peter. And I also noticed that Peter wasn't even trying, that he was moving his legs barely and getting ahead of me. And up until that point, I had had this idealized version of life where effort and intelligence and creativity and hard work will always overcome whatever material lacking you may have, whatever money you're lacking. But as I watched Peter go away, I realized that my problem was money. I was never going to own a 10 speed bike and I was never going to catch Peter again. And I cried the whole ride home. And when I got home and I pulled in the driveway, Peter's bike was already parked right near my front door. And I went into my house and Peter was already sitting at the dinner table with my two brothers and my two sisters. And I remember my first thought was I better sit down and I better eat fast because there's another person at the table and there's no way I'm going to get seconds tonight. Thank you.

[Dan Kennedy]

Matthew Dix is an elementary school teacher, an author and a Moth regular. In fact, he's currently a 12 time moth story slam champion. Hey North Carolina listeners, here's a quick announcement for you. The Moth main stage is returning to Durham on Thursday, October 23. For tickets and a list of all of our upcoming tour stops, visit themoth.org.

[Sponsor]

Our podcast host, Dan Kennedy is a writer and performer living in New York and author of the new novel American Spirit. Available now.

[Dan Kennedy]

Thanks to all of you for listening and we hope you have a story worthy school year. Podcast audio production by Paul Ruest at the Argo Studios in New York. The Moth Podcast and the Radio Hour are presented by prx, the Public Radio Exchange Helping make public radio more [e-mail].