Life After Death: The Moth Radio Hour

Summary

---

The Moth Radio Hour – Life After Death

Airdate: November 4, 2025
Host: Jay Allison

---

Episode Overview

This episode of The Moth Radio Hour explores the profound theme of "Life After Death" through a mosaic of true, personal stories told live on stage. Ranging from poignant to humorous, the storytellers—a doctor, a grieving child, siblings emptying the family home, a Renaissance fair performer, and a screenwriter haunted by a Hollywood legend—grapple with the many ways death shapes the living. Told with honesty and warmth, each narrative offers a unique answer to what endures after loss and how we find meaning, connection, and sometimes laughter on the other side.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

---

1. Certification on a Train: Finding Belonging in Tragedy

Storyteller: Panduranga Rao
[02:31–08:33]

• Context & Struggle:
  Pandu, a young Indian doctor freshly graduated and feeling impostor syndrome, travels third class across India for a job interview. Marking himself “Dr. Pandu” on the ticket form, fate intervenes.
• The Incident:
  During his journey, a ticket checker seeks out “Dr. Pandu” to certify a fellow passenger’s death, a necessary act to prevent an eight-hour train delay.
• Improvisation:
  Without medical tools, he uses a giant railway flashlight to examine the deceased. Certification done, he returns to his seat, suddenly transformed from outsider to hero, embraced by the other passengers.
• Reflection:
  Through this sad yet necessary act, Panduranga realizes his purpose and value as a physician—not just to the patient, but to everyone impacted by loss.

“Despite doing something so intensely sad, despite doing something which should actually cause so much of grief, I yet managed to bring so much comfort and stability to everybody else around me. And I felt really proud of being a doctor and felt I have arrived.”
— Panduranga Rao ([08:14])

• Follow-Up (Host Q&A):
  Dr. Rao affirms that the privilege of comforting the bereaved remains at the heart of his work:

  “Time and again, I'm reminded about the unique role the doctor plays in the patient's and the family's life, the comfort and the strength they always offer to the family, and about how privileged I am to practice medicine even in these turbulent times, or perhaps especially in these turbulent times.”
  — Panduranga Rao ([09:13])

---

2. Looking for Signs: A Daughter’s Leap of Faith

Storyteller: Jaron Ege
[10:05–14:43]

• Grieving Rituals & Lists:
  Jaron confesses she keeps a secret list of friends who came to her father’s visitation, mirroring the way her late father kept every birthday card she’d written.
• Honesty as Legacy:
  Her father was described as “a very honest man.” He promised her that, if there was an afterlife, he’d send a sign.
• The Proposition:
  Jaron, a college sophomore, records her father a month before he dies, asking if he’ll knock over a plant at her dorm as a ghostly signal. He promises, amidst jokes.
• The Sign:
  Two weeks after his death, a wind knocks over her plant. She chooses to believe, rather than rationalize it away, that her father kept his word.
• Deeper Insight:
  She notes that perhaps believing in the sign—choosing faith in connection despite uncertainty—is itself an act of courage and healing.

“Maybe the true leap in the story is that is concluding that that sign was not a coincidence and it was from my father... I'm going to choose to believe that somewhere out there he has and is still caring for me in this large and often lonely world. Because sometimes holding on is a big enough hurdle.”
— Jaron Ege ([14:43])

• Follow-Up (Host Q&A):
  Jaron later listened to the recording in flight; her headphones died midway, echoing the pain of losing her father too soon. She shares that more “visits” have occurred—further signs, moments that reinforce enduring bonds and the importance of human connection.

“If hearing the story made you think of anyone, then reach out to them. Human connection is all we have.”
— Jaron Ege ([15:37])

---

3. The Disbursement of Goods: Humor and Healing in Mourning

Storyteller: Noreen Grimes
[20:19–25:34]

• The Inheritance Book:
  After her mother’s death, Noreen and her siblings are grateful for a notebook her mother prepared called “The Disbursement of Goods.” Each family member has a page of claimed items to prevent fighting.
• A Process Infused with Levity:
  Their mother would slyly record wishes, chasing children around with the book (“You like that bowl? You want that bowl?”). Laughter and light arguments ensue when they finally consult it.
• Dealing with the Past:
  The act of emptying the family home is softened with humor—guests are forced to take away items from the swan collection post-funeral, vases are returned to florists, and a sibling tries to make the task fun by imagining hidden money inside old shoes.
• Letting Go:
  The most heart-wrenching moment comes when the personal objects—and even the tire swing—must be relinquished.
• Resonance:
  The family learns that even as a house empties, meaning lingers, and life reshapes sorrow.

“In this settlement if it was in that book, you had to take it. And in this particular case, when you turn that vase upside down, there was a little yellow sticker on the bottom of it with my name on it. So that made it a double whammy.”
— Noreen Grimes ([22:12])

• Follow-Up (Host Q&A):
  Noreen’s mother’s Christmas cactus still blooms, and above all, she inherited her mother’s capacity for laughter:

“We Grimes kids always look for the funny side of a situation and we never hesitate to giggle, chortle, guffaw. We never hold anything back when it comes to laughing because, well, because Mama made it sound so good.”
— Noreen Grimes ([26:52])

---

4. Acts of Farewell at the Ren Faire: Rediscovering Family

Storyteller: Jake Ottison
[27:48–38:48]

• Disconnection & Longing:
  As a burnt-out actor, Jake returns to the Sterling Renaissance Festival seeking creative and communal rejuvenation, only to find his old cohort missing.
• Solitude as the Gravedigger:
  Assigned to a solitary role, he feels isolated until asked to help scatter the ashes of a beloved colleague, Donna, in character at his mock graveyard.
• Improvised Ceremony:
  What begins as a Ren Faire act becomes a moving and authentic funeral: ashes buried, a traditional Irish song sung, and jokes shared in Donna’s irreverent style.
• Community Reawakened:
  Through this ritual, Jake realizes the magic lies not just in the performance, but in the transient, tender community assembled to “take being silly seriously.”

“Life doesn't work like that. You know, one day you're feeling like you're never going to fit in, and the next day you're standing in a circle of love. And because of Donna, it was like I was re meeting the magic of that festival.”
— Jake Ottison ([38:48])

• Memorable Moment:
  As the ashes are interred, a friend arranges stones in the shape of a breast, prompting laughter—a playful gesture Donna would have cherished.

---

5. Call from Beyond: Haunted by Montgomery Clift

Storyteller: Craig Chester
[43:11–54:10]

• Eerie Coincidences:
  Craig, a filmmaker, is told by two unrelated psychics—first in NYC, then in LA—that the spirit of actor Montgomery Clift is “attached at your hip,” urging Craig to write his life story.

• Encounters & Messages:
  Craig receives precise, verifiable messages only Monty would know (e.g., obscure details about Clift’s death location, accurate visual descriptions of Craig’s surroundings).
  The psychic relays:

  “Monty’s saying, you gotta find some guy named Jack... You need to write this down.”
  — message to Craig ([47:00–48:00])

• Real-World Confirmations:
  Soon after a “find Jack” message, he unexpectedly connects with Jack Larson (Jimmy Olsen from Superman) within 24 hours.

• Returning to the Source:
  Craig is invited to a party at Monty’s long-preserved brownstone, learning new facts corroborated by the psychic. He realizes a deep kinship with Clift, stemming from both suffering traumatic facial injuries.

• Resolution:
  After re-enacting Monty’s last moments in the bathtub, Craig feels he can give Monty, and himself, a “happy ending.” The supernatural communications eventually quiet.

• The Haunting Returns:
  Months later, a distant cousin calls:

  “I woke up and there was a man in my bedroom... He said he wanted me to tell you something... My name is Clifton Montgomery, and you need to tell Craig to hurry.”
  — Craig Chester’s cousin ([53:03])

• Reflection:
  Craig never wrote Clift’s screenplay but is now working on a memoir, contemplating how the living can carry forward what the dead leave behind and give their stories closure.

---

Notable Quotes

• Jay Allison (Opening theme):

  “If you don't mind, I'll start with a quote from Keanu Reeves who, when asked by Stephen Colbert what he thinks happens after we die, said: ‘I know the ones who love us will miss us.’”
  — Jay Allison ([01:44])

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:31] Panduranga Rao’s doctor-in-train story
• [09:10] Follow-up with Dr. Rao about his feelings on his profession and death
• [10:05] Jaron Ege’s search for signs and her father’s ghostly promise
• [15:37] Jaron hears her father’s recording—half listened to, more “hauntings”
• [20:19] Noreen Grimes talks dispersing her mother’s possessions with humor
• [26:52] Noreen reflects on inheriting laughter from her mother
• [27:48] Jake Ottison’s Renaissance fair reflection and impromptu funeral
• [38:48] Realization about communal magic at the festival
• [43:11] Craig Chester’s encounters with psychics and the spirit of Montgomery Clift
• [53:03] Final message through a relative—“Clifton Montgomery” visitation

---

Tone and Delivery

• Personal & Vulnerable: Stories blend sadness and reflection with humor and resilience.
• Conversational Narrative: Each storyteller retains their authentic voice—whether warm, wry, self-deprecating, or reverent.
• Balance of Sorrow and Lightness: Even in mourning, moments of levity and connection arise, as evidenced by the Ren Faire “boob” stone and Noreen’s family swan redistribution.
• Belief and Skepticism: Storytellers are candid about holding both, inviting listeners to find comfort in their own interpretations of grief, signs, and continuance.

---

Concluding Thought

This episode tenderly suggests that “life after death” is not one answer, but many: found in small signs and rituals, laughter and legacy, belief and connection, and the courage to keep telling our stories.

---

Transcript

[Narrator/Host]

You know that moment when you're on the edge of a discovery that feels important, but the information you need is scattered, complex, or hard to find. That's where Claude comes in, an AI thinking partner that can search the web to gather context, surface relevant sources, and help you make sense of the details. Picture someone diving into a topic that looks straightforward at first but quickly reveals layers of history, data, and perspectives. Claude helps navigate that complexity not by writing for you, but by bringing together information, asking the right questions, and providing the context. Need to think deeper? Claude doesn't rush toward quick answers. It digs into different angles, finds unexpected connections, and organizes information in a way that lets you see the bigger picture. Whether you're digging into a new hobby, analyzing research, or simply trying to understand the full context around a topic, Claude matches your curiosity and goes beyond easy answers. Try Claude for free at Claude AI Themoth and see why the world's best problem solvers choose Claude as their thinking partner. We all love a legendary comeback and degree Original Cool Rush is back and.

[Noreen Grimes]

Better than ever Cool Rush isn't just a scent.

[Narrator/Host]

It's a movement, a fan favorite that.

[Noreen Grimes]

Delivers bold, fresh vibes and all day sweat protection.

[Narrator/Host]

Whether you have a man that spends.

[Jake Ottison]

Hours in the gym, heads into the.

[Narrator/Host]

Office early, or is just trying to.

[Noreen Grimes]

Stay fresh on a long day, Cool Rush has their back. Head to your local Walmart or Target.

[Narrator/Host]

And grab Degree Cool Rush, the fan favorite scent from the world's number one antiperspirant brand.

[Jay Allison]

This is the Moth Radio Hour. I'm your host Jay Allison. This is an hour of stories about life after death. And if you don't mind, I'll start with a quote from Keanu Reeves who, when asked by Stephen Colbert what he thinks happens after we die, said, I know the ones who love us will miss us. In this show, a bunch more answers to that question from a doctor, a Renaissance Fair grave digger, and of course, the loved ones we leave behind. We start with Panduranga Rao, who told this at an open mic story slam in Ann Arbor, where we partner with Michigan Public. Here's Panduranga live from the mosque.

[Panduranga Rao]

Hello, I'm Pandu. I'm a doctor. You might have guessed that because I'm Indian, but it's particularly relevant to, you know, what I'm going to say about belonging. I finished medical school in 1986 and like a lot of my classmates, although I graduated and here I was an official doctor, I still felt like an imposter. I still felt that, no, am I really a doctor? Do I really deserve to be a doctor. But, you know, I didn't have the courage to actually face that. So I had to go looking for a job. And I lived in a place called Madras. And the job interview was in New Delhi, 1500 miles away. So I took a train. So being a newly minted doctor, obviously I could travel only by third class in the Indian Railways, which is what I took sitting among all of the ordinary folks. And it was time for lunch. And everybody ignored you. They all took out the lunch boxes and started to eat. And here I was sitting all alone, feeling sorry for myself. One of the things that the Indian railway requires when you reserve a ticket is it says, specifically, if you're a doctor, please state you're a doctor. If I were to fill up that form now, I would carefully avoid saying that I'm a doctor. But at that time, since I newly graduated, I proudly wrote Dr. Pandu. And in India, they always call you by your first name, Dr. Pandu. And here I was sitting in the compartment, and suddenly there was this ticket checker who walked down the train calling out, Where's Dr. Pandu? Where's Dr. Pandu? And suddenly there was silence, and everybody became very alert. Who is this Dr. Pandu among us? And then I very bravely raised my hand and said, I'm here. And they said, do you mind coming with me, sir? I said, sure. I felt very important, and then walked along with him. And we went right up to the end of the train. And even as I approached the end of the train, I knew there was something sinister and bad which was going to happen. And at the end of the train, propped up in the last seat in the train compartment was this very old man who died. And as we came closer, the ticket checker turned to me and said, sir, we want your help in this case. So I thought he was going to ask me to find out what's going on. Then he deflated me by telling, we actually know this person is dead. So then I looked at him and said, what do you want me for? He said, well, we want you to certify that he's dead. Because if you don't certify that he's dead, we have to stop the train at the next station, take him out to the nearest railway hospital in an ambulance, get him certified there, and then bring him back to the train. And there's going to be a delay of eight hours. And so I said, okay, that seems like a reasonable request. Can you get me a stethoscope? So he looked at me and asked, what is that? I said, well, I need to check his heart. He said, no, we don't have any of that here. So the closest thing I could get to certify that somebody had passed was to look at the pupil. So I said, okay, at least get me a flashlight. And so he readily ran and got a flashlight. And as you know, all the train ticket examiners in India, they carry a flashlight which is five feet long. So he got this huge flashlight, and I had to go back and shine it. And then, lo, behold, the pupils were dilated, and indeed, this poor chap had passed. And so they gave me the papers, and I certified him as dead. It was a very sad event, but I nonetheless did that. And it was with a sense of some accomplishment that I did that. And then I started walking back to my third class seat. By the time the word had spread that there is this doctor among our midst who actually certified a patient to have passed. And because of that, he saved us eight hours of eating. And then when I sat there, immediately everybody gathered around me and asked me where I was from. Do you want some food? Take this food, take this coffee, take this drink. And I became a hero. And it was said that at that time, I suddenly realized who I was and what it meant to be a doctor. That despite doing something so intensely sad, despite doing something which should actually cause so much of grief, I yet managed to bring so much of comfort and stability to everybody else around me. And I felt really proud of being a doctor and felt I have arrived. Thank you.

[Jay Allison]

Pandironga Rao is a nephrologist at the University of Michigan Hospitals in Ann Arbor. He told us that despite significant advances, patients with kidney disease, especially those on dialysis, have a higher mortality than the general population. So he deals with death quite often in his field, but has never gotten used to it. We asked Dr. Pondu if he still feels the way he did at the end of his story, that as a doctor, despite doing something intensely sad, he manages to bring comfort to others.

[Panduranga Rao]

Absolutely. I'm especially humbled when the family reaches out to me after a patient passes and thanks me. Time and again, I'm reminded about the unique role the doctor plays in the patient's and the family's life, the comfort and the strength they always offer to the family, and about how privileged I am to practice medicine even in these turbulent times, or perhaps especially in these turbulent times.

[Jay Allison]

Our next story also comes from Ann Arbor, from a Moth Grand Islam in which 10 slam winners are invited to tell a new story and compete to be crowned the ultimate storytelling champion, at least for the moment. From Ann Arbor, here's Jaron Ege.

[Jaron Ege]

I keep a list in my phone of the names of my friends who came to my father's visitation. I have never admitted that before because it feels grossly self indulgent to have it. I felt strange about this list for a long time, even though I never revisited it. Until one day I found in my father's nightstand after he passed all of the birthday cards that my sister and I had ever written to him. And I wondered whether he ever revisited those loving words or if they served the same function that my list did for me in that their mere existence was enough reassurance that somebody cared for him in this large and often lonely world. I am trying to be more honest, like my father was. In the conversations that I had with people at his visitation who knew him well, there was one quality that they kept repeating, that he was a very honest man, almost as if they were getting paid to say it. And even though my father joked his way through life, he was the kind of person who when he said he would do something, he did it. That's why it was a big deal that when he promised me that when he died if he became a ghost, that he would come back and give me some sort of sign that he was in fact Turkish gasper. Let me backtrack to August 2017. My dad was recently diagnosed with a rare complication of cancer that gave him about a six month prognosis. By the time I started my sophomore year in college in September, I was driving home every weekend to a new downfall of my dad's health. The first weekend he'd be in a wheelchair. The next weekend he'd be using a catheter. The next weekend he was bedridden. I decided that I needed to record his voice. And it's Halloween 2017 and I'm sitting across from my father. I secretly press record on my phone and put it away and we start our normal bantering, sarcasm, light hearted conversation. And I go, okay Bubba, now this is serious. Okay, I know you're an atheist and I know you don't believe in an afterlife, but I have a proposition. If you find yourself existing in some form somewhere after you pass, then I need you to come back and give me a sign in some way. Like don't be too obvious, but don't make it too subtle if you want. There's these plants by my windowsill on my dorm, in my dorm bedroom, or along the window if your mom and dad inevitably piss you off up there. Just come down, knock one of those plants and I'll know. He smiles at me, or smiles at the thought of getting to see his parents again. And he says, I promise. Which was the best answer. Fast Forward to about two weeks after November 29, which was the day that we lost him. I'm in my bed in my dorm room and I'm on my phone when the wind knocks down one of the plants in my bedroom and spills all over the ground and I stand up carefully. I inspect the crime scene, looking for patterns in the soil that might be spelling out like my name or his name or hello or some obvious sign that I remembered I told him not to give me but that I desperately wanted in that moment. And before I can list the thousand plus logical reasons of why that was a coincidence, I decided to let myself believe that it wasn't. I decided to let myself believe that my dad is somehow somewhere with me. And then I think to myself, oh, he must be pissed that there's an afterlife. Like all those years of denying and denying and now he's around all these people going, we told you so. And the only thing that my dad hated more than dishonesty was being wrong. When I first read the theme of this night, it felt like a faded nudge to finally take a leap to listen to that voice recording that I've had aging in my phone for four and a half years. But I'm trying to be more honest like my father was, and the truth is I am not ready to listen to it. Maybe.

[Panduranga Rao]

Sorry.

[Jaron Ege]

Maybe the true leap in the story is that is concluding that that sign was not a coincidence and it was from my father. Maybe there's the natural law of physics to explain that the window was open, the wind knocked down the blinds and knocked down the plant. But in the same way that my list served me and in the same way that those cards served my father, I'm going to choose to believe that somewhere out there he has and is still caring for me in this large and often lonely world. Because sometimes holding on is a big enough hurdle. Thank you.

[Jay Allison]

That was Jaron Ege. Jaron is a Turkish American creative writer storyteller, soon to be lawyer in New York City. We reached out to Jaron to see if she's listened to that recording of her dad.

[Jaron Ege]

So I did finally listen to the recording pretty randomly while I was on a flight last year. And as I was listening, my headphones died about halfway through the recording. And it felt like a painful reminder of when I lost him losing his voice earlier than I expected to. It's still funny to think about the irony of it, and it still sits only half listened to. I think the right time will find me to listen to the rest. Since the plant incident, he has visited me a few more times. Thankfully, he's also visited during a conversation with my mom when we were poking fun of his gray sweatsuit he loved to wear, and then the framed picture collage of him in the kitchen slammed to the ground. Even though he's dead, he still finds a way to stand up for himself. And I'll lastly add that if hearing the story made you think of anyone, then reach out to them. Human connection is all we have.

[Jay Allison]

Jaron told us she believes the beauty of life can't be fully appreciated before the reality of death is. In a moment, a mother disperses her worldly possessions and a Ren Faire actor commits to his role as a gravedigger when the Moth Radio Hour continues.

[Craig Chester]

The.

[Jay Allison]

Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts.

[Narrator/Host]

When I first saw ads for Nutrafol, I was skeptical. But when a friend recommended Nutrafol and I tried it. Wow. Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand trusted by over one and a half million people and you can feel great about what you're putting into your body. It's backed by peer reviewed studies and is NSF Contents Certified, which is basically the gold standard for supplement quality. See thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with with less shedding in just three to six months with Nutrafol. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping. When you go to nutrafol.com and enter the promo code Themoth, find out why Nutrafol is the best selling hair growth supplement [e-mail] spelled n u t r a f o l.com promo code themoth that's nutrafol.com, promo code themoth. This is a real good story about Bronx and his dad Ryan, real United Airlines customers.

[Craig Chester]

We were returning home and one of.

[Jay Allison]

The flight attendants asked Bronx if he.

[Craig Chester]

Wanted to see the flight deck and.

[Jay Allison]

Meet Kathy and Andrew.

[Jaron Ege]

I got to sit in the driver's seat.

[Craig Chester]

I grew up in an aviation family and seeing Bronx kind of reminded me of myself when I was that age.

[Noreen Grimes]

That's Andrew, a real United pilot.

[Jake Ottison]

These small interactions can shape a kid's future.

[Noreen Grimes]

It felt like I was the captain.

[Craig Chester]

Allowing my son to see the flight Deck will stick with us forever.

[Jake Ottison]

That's how good leads the way.

[Narrator/Host]

I'll be honest, I'm still a Read the recipe on the back of the spaghetti packet. Dinner maker food does get put on the table, but I need help. That's why I've stopped stressing over last minute meals and started using Little Spoon, today's episode sponsor. They deliver real food for babies, toddlers and big kids straight to your door so mealtime actually feels easy. And get this, Little Spoon is now in Target, so the next time you're doing a diaper run and yes, candle sniffing counts, you can grab snacks, pouches, yogurt, smoothies and even their exclusive frozen line like the famous chicken nuggets and meatballs. Little Spoon is the mealtime hack parents can't stop talking about. Try their no Prep nutrient packed meals and snacks for babies, toddlers and big kids. Get 50% off your first online order at littlespoon.com moth with code moth at checkout. That's L-I-T-T-L-E-S P-O-O-N.com moth and don't forget to use our show's code for 50% off your first order.

[Jay Allison]

This is the Moth Radio Hour. I'm Jay Allison. In this show, we're exploring what happens after death. Our next story comes from Noreen Grimes. Noreen told this at an open mic story Islam in Washington, D.C. where we partner with public radio station WAMU. Here's Noreen live at the mall.

[Noreen Grimes]

There was 50 years of living in that house and we had to make it empty. It had taken us almost a year to begin the business of settling my mother's affairs and dispersing her personal things. That was the title she had written on a 50 cent black and white composition book, the Disbursement of Goods. She'd read somewhere that it cut way down on family fighting if the goods were delegated in writing beforehand. So every family member had a page with their name across the top and a list underneath of anything they had ever expressed interest in. When visiting with mom in the last five years, she got a little sneaky with the book. She'd follow you around the house with it. You like that picture? You want that picture?

[Narrator/Host]

Scribble, scribble, scribble.

[Noreen Grimes]

You like that bowl? You want that bowl?

[Jake Ottison]

Scribble, scribble, scribble.

[Noreen Grimes]

And we all shook her off the same way. Stop with the book already. We don't want to talk about this now. But when faced with the challenge of emptying our family Home. That book was a treasure, like the four pictures at the top of the stairs. I told my sister I always liked them. I have a perfect spot for them. She'd say, check the book. Sorry, Noreen. The book says they go to grandson number three. Darn. What about that ugly blue and orange vase?

[Narrator/Host]

Check the book.

[Noreen Grimes]

Oh, the book says it goes to Noreen. But I don't want. Didn't matter in this settlement if it was in that book. You had to take it. And in this particular case, when you turn that vase upside down, there was a little yellow sticker on the bottom of it with my name on it. So that made it a double whammy. And we knew this process of emptying our family home was going to be very sad for us. But earlier on, we were geniuses. The day of her funeral, if you came back to the house after the service, we forced you to take a swan from her swan collection. This emptied two curio cabinets. And what about all those floral vases she'd saved in the basement? They'd all come through the same local florist just down the street. We boxed them up and gave them back. I mean, the floor.

[Narrator/Host]

She cried.

[Noreen Grimes]

But she cleaned them, reused them. And we saw another big old box go out the front door. We Virginia siblings, we made a pile for the California brother, and we made a pile for the Texas brother. And we said, get on back here and get your disbursements and take them back to your own home. But the Texas brother, he says he only wants one thing. When he was a kid, he found a rock shaped like an egg, and at Easter, he'd painted it blue and given it to Mom. By the time his big old truck rolled on out of here, he had three twin beds, a box full of every card or photo he had ever sent mom, because, of course, she had seen Save them all. A wooden clock cut in the shape of the state of Texas and a tiny blue egg rock. The day that we had to take our six senior high school pictures down off the wall and we saw the faded paint, the shadows of the frames left behind. That was a tough day. But then the rooms began to echo. And we knew if we didn't dig our heels in, we would never get this job done. So that's when my sister decided to make it fun. She got it into her head that Mama had hidden money somewhere in the house. My mom had a ton of nice tiny shoes. We were donating them to the senior center. Was there money tucked inside those shoes? No. We finally finished and we walked outside around the empty house now and that's when we saw the tire swing hanging back there by the creek and we were exhausted. Forget it. The swing stays. About a month after it went on the market, a realtor in the area put down an acceptable bid. She was married with a four year old and had just found out that she was pregnant.

[Panduranga Rao]

Yay.

[Noreen Grimes]

The house was filling up again. Thank you.

[Jay Allison]

That was Noreen Grimes in 2020. In 2016, Noreen retired from a range of careers including bank teller, dental office manager, administrative assistant to a corporate trainer with six years in the middle at the Old Globe Theater in San Diego. Now she uses her free time working on DIY plumbing and electrical projects. Noreen's daughter requested the blue and orange vase after her grandmother's passing and now resides on a prominent shelf in her home. Noreen's name sticker is still in the bottom. You can see [e-mail] we asked Noreen what else she inherited from her mom.

[Noreen Grimes]

I inherited way too many other notable items to mention, but I did get five of her multitudinous display of houseplants. Mama has been gone almost 11 years and her Christmas cactus never fails to bloom for me on time.

[Jay Allison]

We also asked Noreen what non physical thing her mother passed down to her and her siblings.

[Noreen Grimes]

The joy of laughing. The actual physical act of laughing. My mom had the prettiest smile but the greatest laugh my dad could really get her doubled over sitting at the kitchen table during family tea time. And we kids just adored hearing her bust up. We Grimes kids always look for the funny side of a situation and we never hesitate to giggle, chortle, guffaw. We never hold anything back when it comes to laughing because, well, because Mama made it sound so good.

[Jay Allison]

Our next story comes from a New York main stage at St. Anne and the Holy Trinity Church with the theme Body and Soul. Here's Jake Ottison live at the Moth.

[Jake Ottison]

In January of 2018, I was living in Portland, Oregon, and it was raining. I'm on my way to a job I don't particularly care about and I'm feeling really like, disconnected from, from my creativity. See, I'd come to Portland a couple of years before that because, well, I'm an actor and a theater maker and I had heard that Portland is a place you can go to find inspiration. All those creative weirdos that have wound up in the Pacific Northwest sounded like a great idea. And I was sort of burnt out on New York City. But now I was feeling burnt out in Portland and I was Thinking, when was a time when I really felt inspired, like, when I was connected, when I felt like I could bring all of myself to my work. And I knew the answer right away. Renaissance Festival. Oh, yeah, that's right. For four summers out of college, I was an actor at the Sterling Renaissance Festival. Now, for the uninitiated, a Renaissance festival is basically like a giant carnival. If that carnival took place in 1585, Elizabethan England, and the queen of England herself is coming to town. You walk in through those front gates, and it's like a wooded wonderland, a Renaissance village brimming with excitement and entertainment. You look over here, and there's a juggler swallowing swords. And over there, there's a tavern with raucous music. And there's folks dressed all in Renaissance garb while the pirates sing sea shanties. And you just get to wander through, grab your giant turkey leg and your mug of mead, bring out your inner child and have the best day ever. And it was part of my job as one of the actors to make the place feel even more immersive. For example, one year I played a thief character, and you would find me off to the side of the road with my band of thieves, loudly arguing about who stole the best thing that day. And then I'd see you, and I'd.

[Narrator/Host]

Say, oh, God's my life, I do recognize thee.

[Jake Ottison]

Thou art the most famous thief in all of England.

[Narrator/Host]

Do come here.

[Jake Ottison]

I am so glad to meet you. Please settle this argument for us. And I'm riding that bus, and I'm like, man, I gotta go back to the Renaissance Festival. So that night, I call up the creative director and I say, hey, it's been a minute, but is there any chance that you have a job for me this summer? And he said, sure, come on down. And just like that, I was strapping on the old codpiece and heading back to the Elizabethan woods to make magic and find myself again. Huzzah. Now, a couple weeks roll by, and I get an email with the cast list. These are all the people who are going to be sharing the summer with me, my fellow actors. And I'm looking through the list, and I'm thinking, oh, oh, great. I wonder who of my old friends are going to be there. I'm looking through, I'm looking through, and I'm not recognizing any of the names, really. And I'm thinking, okay, like, where's Matt, who played this amazing architect character that would walk around and say zany things? Or my friend Mary Lane, who was an unforgettable pirate, or my friend Donna, who played this incredible bawdy tavern wench character that would tell these Elizabethan jokes that had you, like, rolling in the dirt, but none of those people were going to be there. And I started to feel kind of, like, nervous, like, hold up. All of my memories of that place are with these people. And is it going to give me what I want if my people aren't there? So I go to the festival, and my fears are more or less confirmed because, well, a lot of the new folks, they're right out of college, and I don't know how this math works out, but Somehow they're, like 10 years younger than me. They're talking about memes I don't understand. And there are some folks there who I had worked with before, but they've been doing this for decades, and they got their own thing going on. And so I'm just really having trouble connecting. And I should say that we are up there for a whole month before the festival opens. And it's kind of like this intensive rehearsal boot camp. Like, you're learning to think and speak in Shakespearean English so that you can improvise in character all day. And this is usually where the cast really bonds. It wasn't really happening. And so I thought, okay, well, if not the cast, then, you know, maybe when I get more into character, I'll feel better. So I get my costume. I'm excited for this. But I show up and they say, oh, you're playing a gravedigger. Okay, here's a giant floppy hat and an oversized vest. Now get out of here. We gotta costume the queen. Okay? And then, to make matters worse, I didn't realize that as a gravedigger, I would have kind of a solo role. Whereas in the past I'd had sort of these family units to bounce energy off of. This time I had come seeking connection, but I was gonna just be the creepy old man by himself in the graveyard. So the festival opens, and I'm still holding onto these feelings of not exactly belonging, wondering when it's going to kick in, but I'm doing my thing. I'm in my graveyard, which is a really nice little set. It's got a couple of crumbling graves and a wagon, and I'm there with my prop shovel, yelling to people about how their grave is ready and could they remind me when they were thinking of dying? So I can mark it down that, you know, gravedigger stuff. And I still don't feel. I'm not feeling it. And my friend Kristen, who Works as a musician at the festival. She comes up to the graveyard and sort of pulls me aside around midday and says, hey, I have a really odd request. Could you help us with something? I go over. She's standing with a man that I don't recognize, and she says, we would like to bury Donna's ashes. And I knew right away who she was talking about. Donna was an actor that I'd worked with many years before at the festival. And sadly, I had heard that in the past year, she had been battling a terrible cancer, and she passed away. And now the man. The man there was had been married to Donna and brought her ashes, thinking we could, like, scatter a few around in this place that she loved. But then they saw me in the graveyard and they thought, well, we could do one better and have a real ceremony in the middle of the day. And she said, who do we have to ask for permission to do this? And immediately I was like, no one who cares? I'm the gravedigger. Let's do this. So then we had a plan. They went to get people who had known Donna, who might want to be a part of this ceremony. And I, because I'm the grave digger, prepared the graveyard. Now, I don't know if you've ever tried to, like, dig a hole with a prop shovel, but it's like smashing the ground with a rock. And it was taking a long, long time. And I was getting nervous, like, this has to kind of look good. And then I'm looking down thinking, I should make this look nicer. And I got a bunch of nice, like, rocks that I thought were pretty. And I put them in a circle around the hole. And I'm sweating, I'm wiping my brow with that floppy hat, and I suddenly hear music and look over to the tavern that's near the graveyard, and a processional has begun. There are about 10 people. They're dressed in different costumes. Some of them are actors, Some of them are longtime fair goers. And they're making their way to my graveyard. And in the front there are some minstrels playing music. They're sort of kicking up dust as they walk, which adds this haze to this kind of silly looking somber scene. They come into the graveyard. I welcome them, ask them to, you know, gather around the hole that I dug. And it's almost golden hour at this point. So the sun is slanting through the trees, and Michael has Donna's ashes and thanks everybody for coming and says, you know, Donna would think that this is hilarious. And I look around at this motley crew. And we're some of us half in character. I mean, my friend Frank is there with a hat that has cartoonishly gigantic feathers, but he's taken it off out of respect. And the guy playing Sir Francis Drake is wearing these, like, pumpkin pants. And we're just a bunch of pretend people in a pretend graveyard in the middle of a Renaissance festival having a serious ceremony. And Michael puts the ashes in the hole as my friend Andy starts to sing Parting Glass, which is a traditional Irish funeral song. It goes, of all the comrades ever I've had, they're sorry for my going away. And I invite everybody, if they'd like, to take a handful of dirt and place it into the hole, to say their individual goodbyes. When it comes to my turn, I think about Donna and the gift she had. How in her bright blue eyes you would see mischief dancing. And when she looked at you or she looked at a whole audience, you felt like you were part of her family. And now here we all were. And I took my shovel and I covered the rest of the hole. And then one of the women with us, who was a longtime fair goer, picked up a stone and placed it in the middle of that circle. And she said, there. Now it looks like a boob.

[Craig Chester]

Which.

[Jake Ottison]

I know is a terribly inappropriate thing at a funeral, but I am telling you, that is exactly the kind of joke that Donna would make. And we are laughing because Donna is laughing with us. And I am in the middle of these people. These are my people, these people that take being silly seriously. And I realized I had come to the Renaissance Faire like a pilgrim to a shrine, seeking this divine inspiration that we was going to fix.

[Narrator/Host]

Me.

[Jake Ottison]

But life doesn't work like that. You know, one day you're feeling like you're never going to fit in, and the next day you're standing in a circle of love. And because of Donna, it was like I was re meeting the magic of that festival. And so, as we say at the end of each festival day when we raise our glasses in a toast, merry meet, merry part. And merry meet again. Thank you.

[Jay Allison]

Jake Ottison is an actor and theater maker. Says he fled rainy Portland for windy Chicago. He recently founded Hidden Wonders Immersive. It's a theater company dedicated to sparking the same sense of interactive adventure he first felt performing at the Renaissance Faire. Jake would also like to give a shout out to the Rescue Foundation, a non profit that helps ren faire folks pay their medical bills. In a moment, a man receives a message from beyond the grave when the Moth Radio Hour continues. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts.

[Narrator/Host]

This episode is brought to you by Rakuten. The holidays are here, and that means it's the most wonderful time of the year. To save with Rakuten, use Rakuten to stack cash back at your favorite stores on top of holiday sales. That's savings on savings. With Rakuten, you can get cash back on gifts for everyone on your list, from toys for the kids to kitchen gear for the person who loves to cook to electronics for everyone. You can even save on something for yourself. Cash back is automatically added to your account as you shop and you can get paid with gift cards, PayPal or check or eligible American Express card members can choose to earn membership Rewards points, Join for free today and get a new member bonus after minimum qualifying purchases. Just go to rakuten.com, download the app or install the browser extension and conditions apply. Hi, I'm Dr. Mary Claire Haver, a board certified OB GYN and menopause specialist. My new podcast, Unpaused, is the place for bold, unfiltered conversations about what it really takes for women to thrive in the second half of life. Every week I sit down with medical experts, cultural icons, and powerhouse women to talk about what really matters your health, your power and your future, recovering hormones, identity, finances, relationships and so much more. New episodes drop every Tuesday. Listen to and follow unpaused with me, Dr. Mary Claire Haver. Available now wherever you get your podcasts.

[Craig Chester]

Truth or dare? How about both? This fall, the moth is challenging. What it means to be daring. We're not just talking about jumping out of airplanes or quitting your job. We're talking about the quiet courage to be vulnerable, the bold decisions to reveal the secret that changed everything. This fall, the Moth Main Stage season brings our most powerful stories to live audiences in 16 cities across the globe. Every one of those evenings will explore the singular theme of daring. But the stories and their tellers will never be the same. So here's our dare to you experience the Moth Main Stage live. Find a city near [e-mail] daring. Come on. We dare you.

[Jay Allison]

This is the Moth Radio Hour. I'm Jay Allison. No episode about life after death would be complete without a ghost story. Craig Chester told this at the City Winery in New York. It may be difficult to believe for the skeptics out there, but as a reminder, all moth stories are true, as remembered and affirmed by the storytellers. Here's Craig live from New York.

[Craig Chester]

A Few years ago, I directed my first movie, sort of a big, gay, goofy romantic comedy with like line dancing and all this crazy stuff, very R rated humor. And Hollywood saw my movie and thought maybe they could bring me out there and I could make big dumb, goofy, R rated Hollywood movies. So I'd been an actor to this point, I'd never made any money and I thought, well, maybe I'll go out there. But I didn't know what to do. So a friend of mine suggested to go see a psychic on the Upper east side named Reverend Catherine. So I'd never been to a psychic before, but I thought, you know, what the hell? So I'm sitting across from her and I'm going on about my career and my life and the whole time I'm talking to her, she's looking over my shoulder at moment the something that's not there. And finally she speaks and she says, none of what you're talking about is important. There's a spirit of a dead gay actor around you and your next movie is going to be about this man. Who could this be? So, you know, I start throwing out some names. I'm like, is it Anthony Perkins? She's like, no, he's saying, I'm not it Anthony Perkins. Is it Rock Hudson? She's like, no, he doesn't like Rock Hudson. Is it Montgomery Clift? And she's like, oh, he's jumping up and out and saying, that's me. That's me on Montgomery clift. So for 45 minutes, Catherine uses herself as like a magical human iPhone to receive text from beyond. And Monty starts talking to Mile a minute. He's saying that you're having this life you couldn't have because you're an openly gay man and he was a closet case in the 50s. And you're going to write this movie about him. He's going to get you into this house that he died in on the Upper east side. And this is so exciting. He's been waiting this long time for this reunion and you know, I didn't really get any of the answers, you know, any of my questions answered, but I left there and I kind of blew it off. So I got to la, where my big gay romantic comedy premieres, and I go to this restaurant and I'm sitting with like, you know, a bunch of people and there's this woman, Jose, sitting at the table and she's very sweet. She's like a very suburban type of mom type person. And while we're talking, somehow or another, you know, People are talking about famous Hollywood closet cases. And Montgomery Cliff's name came up. And when his name came up, this woman, Jose, leans away like she's listening to something. She turns back to the table and she goes, I'm sorry, I have to interrupt all you guys. Craig, this Montgomery Cliff guy is attached at your hip and he's saying, hold on, hold on, hold on. He's talking a mile a minute. He's saying that you're having this life he couldn't have because of the time he lived in and he was gay and you're gay, and something about a screenplay you're gonna write for him and he's gonna get you into this house that he died in. Now, this woman, Jose, happens to be a psychic. And she tells me everything that the woman in New York told me, verbatim, word for word. Jose is sort of like this. She's sort of the opposite of Catherine, the New York psychic. She doesn't charge. She just, you know, talks to dead people. She's been this way since she was 5. And she's sort of like a psychic Carol Brady, you know. So, you know, I go home, I'm kind of shaken, and I'm trying to find a logical explanation. They don't know each other at all. And the next day, Jose calls me at home and she's like, hi, Craig. So listen, I was taking a bath and Montgomery Clift is here and he wants to get started on his screenplay. Now I'm in LA and I'm taking. You know, I'm like, well, you know, I'm very flattered that Monty would pick me first, you know, but I was very busy. I had a really important pitch the next day at a studio for a female med wrestling comedy. And I was up for Revenge of the Nerds remake. And also I was like, you know, wouldn't it be more sensible for Monty to pick like an A list writer, you know, like Paul Haggis or someone? And while I'm talking to her, my landline dies. My landline. So I go outside to get a reception on my cell phone and I call her back. And while I'm talking to her, she goes, craig, are you outside? And I'm like, yeah. She's like, are you looking at a tree? And on one side of the tree the leaves are gone, and at the bottom there's like a bamboo fence, and to the right there's like a red looking barn house. And she described what I was looking at. Now, I was in a temporary housing situation. She didn't know where I was. I met her once and she said, monty's giving this to you as confirmation this is real and you need to pay attention. She's like, he's going to talk about his life. Do you have a pen? He's going to start talking. You need to write this down. And I lied and said, yeah, I've got a pen, go ahead. Then she takes a pause and she comes back to the phone. She's like, I'm sorry, Craig, Monty just told me that you're lying. So I get a pen, I start writing down what Montgomery Cliff is telling me. In the day I'm going on these dumb jobs to get these R rated comedies. And at night, Montgomery Clift is calling me, giving me lectures about, like, integrity in Hollywood. And out of the blue, like, you know, these people start appearing that Monty knew in my life. Jose was like, you know, Monty's saying, you gotta find some guy named Jack. Who's Jack? And I'm like, is it Jack Larson? He was Jimmy Olsen in the Superman TV show. And she's like, yes, yes, find Jack Larson. You know, I'm not a journalist. I don't know how to do this stuff. I go on peoplefinders.com, there's like 760 Jack Larsons in LA. I go to sleep. The next morning, I wake up on my cell phone. There's a voicemail from my friend Michael saying, hi, Craig, I'm Michael. I'm in town. I'm having lunch with this guy Jack Larson today. He was Jimmy Olsen in the Superman TV show. I don't know if you know who he is. And within 24 hours of Monty telling me to find Jack, I'm speaking to Jack Larson. This is how it was the whole time. Things would happen, people would appear, I'd go back to New York, and right away I get invited to a cocktail party at 217 E. 61st St. Which is Montgomery Cliff's old brownstone, where I was told I would go from the very beginning. So with an hour's notice, I go over to the house and I walk in. I'm sort of in a daze. And it's frozen in 1966. It hasn't changed since Monty died. And I meet this guy Paul, who's lived there for decades and knows all the secrets of Monty's house. And he tells. And I see the room where he died. He died in his bedroom, famously, this famous story of his death. And he said, well, actually, no, he died in the bathtub. But nobody knows. This is not published anywhere. So I leave there, I call Jose, and I say. She's like, what was the house like? And I'm like, it's exactly like it was when he left it. It's Monty's wallpaper and Monty's tile. And she says, what's the significance of the bathtub? He's saying, there's something about a bathtub. And then she says, you know, Craig, Monty just told me that he's been trying to get you in here for 20 years. And sort of this doesn't quite sink in. But a week later, I get an invitation from Paul, the guy who lives in Monty's house, and he says, listen, I know this may be a little morbid, but do you want to spend the night in Monty's bedroom? So the following Wednesday, I have a dinner party. Party at Monty's house. My friends come over, and at midnight, they all leave, and I go up to Monty's bedroom, and I'm there. I've been led all this way. I'm in his bedroom, and I'm looking at the tub, and I'm thinking, oh, I've got to get into the tub. I mean, Monty would. I mean, he was a method actor, and he'd want to feel what it felt like to be him. So go in the bathroom. I get in the tub, and I lay back, and I. And I'm looking at this air vent, and it's this very sacred moment, you know, And I'm looking at this air vent, thinking that's the last thing he saw alive. And while I'm laying there, I'm thinking, you know, I remember what Jozan said about 20 years ago. You know, he's been with you for 20 years. And then it hit me, like, my face. When I was 19, I had genetic. I had a massive reconstructive surgery to my face. I had a genetic disfigurement to my jaw and had a year's worth of operations to rebuild my face. Montgomery Clift had a terrible car accident at the peak of his fame. He was leaving Elizabeth Taylor's house, and he hit a telephone pole, and his face was demolished, and his jaw was wired shut for months, just like mine was. And I thought, this is why he wants me. Like, when you have an experience like that, you see the world. You really sort of see how shitty people are because you have two different faces, but you see the world through the same set of eyes. And I felt like, you know, I understood him in a way that maybe nobody else would and wouldn't we want the person to tell our story, be somebody who understands who we are. So I got out of the tub, and I was very aware that I could stand, that I could leave. And I could be, in a way, Monty's happy ending. I could live past 45. I could have a great life. I could be out after this. After the bathtub, it kind of died down. Monty left me alone and went back to my real life. And I'm not any more spiritual than I was before this started, by the way. I mean, I'm still completely living complete fear of everything. And so I go to LA and I work in television, and it's great. And then a few months ago, Jose called me, and she's like, montgomery, Cliff's back. He's been waking me up the last two nights. And I'm like, you know, that's great. I'm really busy with my TV show. And she's like, he's saying, you've got to get to Elizabeth Taylor, because there's something that Elizabeth Taylor knows that no one else knows, that he knows, that she knows. So I blow it off. I finish my job. The day after I finish my job, my cousin Chandra calls me from Texas. Now, I talked to Chandra, like, once every 10 years. We have nothing in common. She lives in a small town in Texas. She's got eight kids, and she calls me out of the blue, and I'm like, thinking, who died? You know? She says. I'm like, is everything okay? And she's like, well, this really scary thing happened here last night. I'm like, what? She's like, well, I woke up and there was a man in my bedroom, and I thought it was you. He looked a little bit like you. And he said he wanted me to tell you something. And I'm like, what? And she's like, he's kind of mumbling. And he said, my name is Clifton Montgomery, and you need to tell Craig to hurry. So, Elizabeth Taylor, if you're there, it's me, Montgomery Clift.

[Jay Allison]

Craig Chester is an actor and writer currently living in Woodstock, New York. He was nominated for a Spirit Award, and his memoir, why the Long Face, was published by St. Martin Martin's Press. He wrote and produced three seasons of the Big Gay Sketch show starring Kate McKinnon, and episodes of the HBO hit True Blood. He's currently shooting a sequel to his 2005 film, Adam and Steve. Elizabeth Taylor died in 2011, so Craig never got to meet her to unravel the mystery. And while Craig never wrote the screenplay, he is writing a memoir about his experience with Monty. He tells us that their twinning continues and he's committed to giving both of their stories a happy ending. To see a picture of Craig in Monty's old house, visit themoth.org do you have a story about life after death, or just about life for that matter? Pitch us a two minute version on our website themoth.org that's it for this episode. We hope you'll join us next time. And that's the Story from the Moth this episode of the Moth Radio Hour was produced by me. Jay Allison. Co Producer is Vicki Merrick, Associate Producer Emily Couch. The stories were directed by Jennifer Hickson and Michelle Jalowski. Additional grand slam coaching by Larry Rosen. The rest of the Moss leadership team includes Sara Haberman, Christina Norman, Sarah Austin, Janess, Kate Tellers, Marina Cluce, Suzanne Rust, Sarah Jane Johnson and Patricia Urenia. Most stories are true, as remembered and affirmed by the Storytellers. Our theme music is by the Drift. Other music in this hour from Neil Mukherjee, mort Garson, Tom McDermott and John Zorn. We receive funding from the National Endowment for the Arts. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts. Special thanks to our friends at Odyssey, including Exactly Executive Producer Leah Rees Dennis. For more about our podcast, for information on pitching us your own story and to learn all about the Moth, go to our website themoth.org.