The Moth Radio Hour: Bathtub Sailor, Seamstress, Spy

Summary

The Moth Radio Hour: Bathtub Sailor, Seamstress, Spy

Release Date: April 26, 2016

Introduction

In the April 26, 2016 episode of The Moth Radio Hour titled "Bathtub Sailor, Seamstress, Spy," listeners are treated to three compelling and diverse true stories, each showcasing extraordinary personal journeys and resilience. Hosted by Meg Bowles, the episode features tales from Tim Fitzhayam, Catherine Cross, and Noreen Reels, delivered live from The Moth’s London main stage. This detailed summary delves into each story, highlighting key points, notable quotes, and the profound insights shared by the storytellers.

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1. Bathtub Sailor: Tim Fitzhayam ([02:24] – [19:36])

Summary: Tim Fitzhayam presents an adventurous and humorous account of his audacious attempt to row across the English Channel in a bathtub. Combining determination with British eccentricity, Tim's story is a whirlwind of preparation, unforeseen challenges, and unexpected accolades.

Key Points:

• Inception of the Idea ([02:24] – [04:10]): Tim begins by humorously describing himself rowing in a bathtub amidst the vastness of the English Channel, maneuvering to escape a colossal oil tanker. He reflects on how a spontaneous idea during bath time led to the realization that no one had ever attempted such a feat.

  “I was lying in the bath and I had this idea. I was thinking to myself, I wonder if anyone has ever rode the English Channel in a bathtub.” ([05:15])

• Preparation and Obstacle ([04:11] – [08:30]): Tim details the extensive preparations, including sourcing a Victorian-era copper bathtub from Thomas Crapper and Company, and modifying it with outriggers to ensure stability. He highlights the formidable challenge of navigating the busiest shipping lane in the world, managed by massive tankers with lengthy stopping distances.

  “I have to go from east to west, from England to France. So I am going to be like, crossing the busiest motorway in the world at right angles to the direction of traffic, riding a concrete snail.” ([07:45])

• Legal and Logistical Hurdles ([08:31] – [12:00]): Encountering bureaucratic setbacks, Tim narrates his interactions with the French government, who initially opposed his endeavor. By registering his bath as a British ship and engaging with the Royal Navy, he ultimately gains unexpected support, including a letter from the Queen.

  “Should we just recap on what's going on here? I've set off to row the Channel in a bath and I now have a letter from the Queen saying, not only do I not mind you rowing the Channel in a bathtub. You have my heartiest support.” ([12:45])

• The Crossing and Its Perils ([12:01] – [15:51]): Tim recounts the harrowing moments during his crossing, including close encounters with tankers and surviving a severe storm that damaged his makeshift vessel. Despite physical injuries and extreme adversity, his perseverance leads to a historic naval precedent when the tanker avoids him, a first in maritime history.

  “The tanker did divert around a bathtub for the first time in the maritime history of the world and create what the admiral later called a naval precedent in law.” ([15:10])

• Accolades and Aftermath ([15:52] – [19:36]): Post-crossing, Tim receives multiple honors, including being made a Commodore in the Royal Navy and an audience with the Queen. His story concludes with reflections on British resilience and public support, culminating in a commemorative lavatory named in his honor.

  “It turned out to be that Great Britain is a land where you can turn to the great British public, look them directly in the eye and go, I'm going to do something really quite hard… and the great British public will look you directly in the eye and go, this man's a hero.” ([18:50])

Notable Quotes:

• Tim Fitzhayam: “Imagine if you will, I'm out rowing in the middle of the English Channel… it's a bathtub.” ([03:00])
• Tim Fitzhayam: “Britain is a land where you can turn to the great British public, look them directly in the eye and go, I'm going to do something really quite hard.” ([18:30])

Insights and Conclusions: Tim’s story is a testament to human ingenuity and the spirit of adventure. It humorously underscores the lengths to which one can go to turn an unconventional idea into a reality, highlighting the unexpected support and recognition that can follow such endeavors. The narrative also delves into themes of perseverance, national pride, and the impact of individual actions on broader societal norms.

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2. Seamstress: Catherine Cross ([21:18] – [34:38])

Summary: Catherine Cross shares a deeply personal and emotional journey of reconciling with her transgender child. Her story portrays the complexities of parental love, societal acceptance, and the transformative power of understanding and support.

Key Points:

• Initial Disclosure ([21:18] – [24:30]): Catherine introduces the moment her 15-year-old daughter, initially identified as female, confesses struggles beyond sexual orientation, hinting at deeper gender identity issues. The initial confusion is portrayed with a touch of humor as she navigates her lack of understanding about transgender issues.

  “Funny really, because I always imagined she'd come out to me as being gay. But the moment she said as I knew that wasn't it, I knew she was going to have to dig a bit deeper.” ([23:50])

• Realization and Acceptance ([24:31] – [28:15]): As the daughter's true feelings emerge, Catherine grapples with denial and fear, leading to heated conversations and self-reflection. She highlights the internal conflict of wanting to support her child while struggling to comprehend the reality of their identity.

  “What's so bad about this anyway? Still have my child. She's not dead. She's not dying. Why am I so sad?” ([26:45])

• Seeking Support ([28:16] – [31:30]): Upon discovering support groups, Catherine and her husband decide to attend a weekend retreat organized by the Transgender Equality Network in Ireland. The experience is initially awkward but becomes transformative as Catherine begins to understand and support her child’s identity.

  “I thought I was going to have to drop some other kind of bombshell on me. So I decided to try our very best to call you by your new name and use male pronouns.” ([30:10])

• Community and Advocacy ([31:31] – [34:38]): Through the support group and interactions with other families, Catherine gains the confidence to advocate for her child. She shares the positive reception from the community and her daughter’s increased happiness. The narrative concludes with Catherine embracing her role in the Transgender Equality Network and pursuing higher education to further support transgender rights.

  “I realize that the daughter I'm mourning is the daughter I had expected to have. And maybe the pain of that would ease over time.” ([34:05])

Notable Quotes:

• Catherine Cross: “You're gay, oh, for God's sake. Is that all?” ([22:30])
• Catherine Cross: “What’s so bad about this anyway? Still have my child. She's not dead. She's not dying. Why am I so sad?” ([26:00])
• Catherine Cross: “I find it really, really strange, but he was so happy. I couldn't but be happy for him too.” ([32:20])

Insights and Conclusions: Catherine’s narrative emphasizes the profound challenges and rewards inherent in supporting a transgender child. It sheds light on the emotional turmoil parents may experience and the critical importance of support systems and education in fostering understanding and acceptance. The story underscores themes of unconditional love, personal growth, and the societal shifts towards greater inclusivity and awareness of gender identity issues.

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3. Spy: Noreen Reels ([34:38] – [51:55])

Summary: Noreen Reels unveils her concealed past as a secret agent during World War II. Her poignant recounting of undercover operations, personal sacrifices, and enduring love offers a gripping glimpse into the clandestine world of espionage and its lasting impacts.

Key Points:

• Recruitment and Early Missions ([34:38] – [38:00]): Noreen begins by recounting her entry into the Women's Royal Naval Service, initially motivated by admiration for the uniform. She describes the intense training and recruitment process, leading to her assignment in the France section, where she became involved in covert operations supporting occupied countries.

  “Behind those walls, members of every occupied country were organizing acts of sabotage and the infiltration into enemy territory at night of secret agents by parachute, fishing boat, Felucca and submarine.” ([36:00])

• Training and Operations ([38:01] – [44:20]): Detailing her role at the secret training school in Beaulieu, Hampshire, Noreen explains the rigorous training agents underwent, including surveillance techniques and psychological resilience. She shares stories of agents' personal struggles and the high stakes of their missions, emphasizing the emotional toll of secrecy and loss.

  “Brave men are always afraid. Courage isn't the absence of fear. It's the willingness, the guts, if you like, to face the fear.” ([40:30])

• Personal Tragedy and Love ([44:21] – [48:10]): Noreen narrates her brief, intense romance with a fellow agent named Bill, highlighting the fragility of love amidst the chaos of war. Bill’s ultimate sacrifice on a perilous mission underscores the perpetual risk agents faced and the enduring grief of loss.

  “I didn’t want a dead hero. I didn’t want a medal in a velvet box. I wanted Bill.” ([47:50])

• Legacy and Reflections ([48:11] – [51:55]): Reflecting on her contributions and the secrecy imposed by the Official Secrets Act, Noreen expresses pride and sorrow over the sacrifices made by herself and her colleagues. Her story concludes with a tribute to the courage and dedication of secret agents, honoring their legacy and the personal costs of their service.

  “Almost half of them never returned. Like Bill, they gave their youth their joie de vivre, their hopes and dreams for the future. They gave their all for us. They gave their today so that we might have our tomorrow.” ([51:30])

Notable Quotes:

• Noreen Reels: “Courage isn't the absence of fear. It's the willingness, the guts, if you like, to face the fear.” ([40:00])
• Noreen Reels: “I fell madly, hopelessly in love with an agent. He was one of our best agents. A crack. He'd just returned from a very successful second mission and he was a legend in the section.” ([45:00])
• Noreen Reels: “But I didn’t want a dead hero. I didn’t want a medal in a velvet box. I wanted Bill.” ([47:45])

Insights and Conclusions: Noreen’s story illuminates the hidden sacrifices made by countless individuals during wartime, shedding light on the personal and emotional costs of espionage. It explores themes of love, loss, duty, and the national conscience, emphasizing the understated yet profound impact of these unsung heroes. Her revelations also highlight the enduring effects of secrecy on personal relationships and the collective memory of wartime contributions.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Moth Radio Hour masterfully encapsulates the breadth of human experience through its three distinct stories. From the eccentric ambition of rowing the English Channel in a bathtub to the heartfelt journey of a mother supporting her transgender child, and finally, the silent heroism of a WWII secret agent, each narrative underscores resilience, transformation, and the intricate tapestry of personal and societal challenges. Notable quotes punctuate these stories, providing depth and authenticity to the storytellers' experiences. Collectively, the episode celebrates the extraordinary within the ordinary, offering listeners a rich, engaging, and thought-provoking auditory experience.

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Notable Production Details:

• Presenter: Meg Bowles
• Producer: Jay Allison with Vicki Merrick at Atlantic Public Media, Woods Hole, Massachusetts
• Support: The episode was produced with funds from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, the National Endowment for the Arts, and the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation.
• Additional Contributors: Stories were enhanced with theme music by The Drift and performances by Dickie Nolan and Harry Jones James and his Orchestra.

For more stories and information, visit themoth.org.

Transcript

[Tim Fitzhayam]

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[Meg Bowles]

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[Catherine Cross]

From PRX, this is the Moth Radio Hour. I'm Meg Bowles and in this hour we have three stories from our London main stage. Our first story comes from Tim Fitzhayam. In addition to being a writer, comedian and artist, Tim also holds several world records for unusual feats, including paddling a paper boat down 160 miles of the River Thames and personally inflating the world's largest balloon to raise awareness for environmental issues. Here's Tim Fitzheim live at the Mall.

[Tim Fitzhayam]

Imagine if you will, I'm out rowing in the middle of the English Channel. It's a lovely stretch of water. It's very difficult to row, however, and I'm rowing quite quickly. Really, really quite quickly. Fast. It's the fastest I've ever rowed in my life. It's so fast that my lungs are beginning to die. And the reason for this incredible burst of speed, some would say legendary burst of speed, is that just there in this picture of me rowing at this angle just behind Me just bearing down on me is an oil tanker. It's a third of a mile long, and it is bearing down on me with really incredible speed, which is why I am rowing faster than anyone has ever rowed, even in their lives. I am desperately trying to get out of the way of that massive, massive oil tanker. Did I mention, by the way, that I am sitting rowing in a bathtub? It is at moments like this you question how these things happened. I think it started in a bathtub, very like the one that I was rowing in about eight months beforehand. I was lying in the bath and I had this idea. I was thinking to myself, I wonder if anyone has ever rode the English Channel in a bathtub. And then I started looking it up. And the more I looked it up, and the more I thought about it, the more it looked like no one had ever rode the English Channel in a bathtub. And the more I looked at this, I thought, someone should row the English Channel in a bathtub. And then the more I thought about this, the more I thought, you know what? The person that should row the English Channel in a bathtub, that should be me. That person should be me. And I said this to some friends of mine. I said, I'm going to row the English Channel in a bathtub. And they said, good luck with that. And so I started to go into the preparations for this. Now, the first, and I'm sure you're all very aware that the key preparation for this was get a bathtub. So I phoned hundreds of bathroom companies, I phoned hundreds and hundreds of bathtub companies, and nobody would get involved in what I thought was an incredible project. Until finally one of them wrote back to me. I got my bathroom company. And not just any bathroom company. I got the finest bathroom company in the entire world to give me a bath. I got a bath from Thomas Crapper and Company. A third of a ton roll top, Victorian copper bathtub. The sort of thing that you see in a museum. A fantastically beautiful piece of bathroom kit. It goes up and has a fluted roll top. It's a gorgeous Victorian artifact. And on that beautiful artifact, I screwed two outriggers from a rowing boat that would take the center of gravity slightly further out, which would help me to spread the weight over a wider area, so hopefully I'd be more balanced and I wouldn't sink. Secondly, a problem began to arise in my mind. It turns out that the English Channel turns out to be the busiest shipping lane in the world. There are more tankers, container ships, frigates, and just general traffic going up and down that tiny stretch of water than any other stretch of water in the entire world. And some of these tankers, as discussed, are huge. But what I didn't realize is that they also have giant stopping distances. Some of their stopping distances are 15 miles. That means that by the time they have seen you and applied the brake, they have already gone through you. And somebody is calling the undertaker. This is like. And they go north to south, these tankers and container ships and frigates. And I have to go from east to west, from England to France. So I am going to be like, crossing the. The busiest motorway in the world at right angles to the direction of traffic, riding a concrete snail. This is problem number one. The second problem is that half of the English Channel turns out to be owned not by Great Britain, but by the French. Now, I wrote to the French government and I said, now, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to row the English Channel in a bathtub. And they were kind and they were generous and they were helpful. They sent me tons of stuff to read. And all the time they were going into the French parliament and passing a new clause in the Shipping act of France making it illegal to row a bathtub in French water. So what I did is I went to the Ministry of Transport in Whitehall and I said, now, this is what we're going to do, gentlemen. We are going to register my bath as a registered British ship. And to my shock, horror and amazement, they said, yeah, fair enough, Tim. That's a good plan. Yeah, yeah. They put me on the captain's register. They gave me a small ship's registration certificate. They sent me a letter that genuinely said, Dear Mr. Fitzheim, please find enclosed the paperwork for your newly registered British shipping vessel. Brackets, bathtub, close brackets. Please keep it with you at all times and in all places, even on the high seas. We think the French are going to want to see this. To assist you in this aim, please find enclosed we've had it laminated. I don't think I have ever been prouder to be British than when I looked down and saw in my hand laminated paperwork. There was another problem that I became aware of, and that is that I couldn't row. And I also know nothing about the sea. Nothing at all. Never been on it. And so I phoned loads of people to try and get someone to talk to me about the sea. I tried all the various organizations I could think of. Nobody had time to talk to me about the sea. I tried the coast Guard. They seemed to be busy. In the end, I did what anyone would do in this situation. In total desperation, I phoned the Royal Navy, and by mistake at the switchboard, I got put through to an admiral. As it turned out, now the only sailor who's ever existed in my entire family is a great uncle. And he said to me a long time ago, tim, if ever you're talking to a member of Her Majesty's Royal Navy, he said, always start the conversation with the question, how are your futtocks, old man? What the heck is a futtock? I had absolutely no idea, but I thought, well, give it a go. So I said, ah, Rear Admiral, how are your futtocks, old man? And he replied, at the furthest reach, dear boy. At their furthest reach. Now, I asked my uncle about this, my great uncle, and he said, yes, Tim, that is the correct nautical response to the question, how are your futtocks, old man? I said, that's fantastic, uncle, but what does it actually mean? He said, well, that's the thing, Tim, nobody actually knows. I thought there was something incredibly British about the fact we had both just had a conversation that neither of us had understood a single word of. We might as well have just said, ah, ostrich, hairy gusset, straw strapped, Rear Admiral. Yes, raspberry flan's phantasma, blue ass cheese, dear boy. But the both of us were just too darn Britishly polite to admit to the fact we didn't understand. Now, after this slightly weird beginning to the conversation, me and the Rear Admiral were getting on really rather well. And after a while, I plucked up the courage to say, you know this vessel that we're talking about taking across the busiest shipping lane in the world? You do know it's a bath? And then the line went dead. And then the line crackled into life and the voice said, well, same rules of navigation apply. I'm on board. So in one second, I'd suddenly had the Royal Navy on backing the bath project. Now then I decided to do what any great British explorer I'd ever heard about has ever done in the history of Britain. I decided to write to the Queen and tell her what I was planning to do and say, you know, do you mind if I have a crack at the Channel in a bathtub? And to my shock, horror and amazement, she wrote back. Should we just recap on what's going on here? I've set off to row the Channel in a bath and I now have a letter from the Queen saying, not only do I not mind you rowing the Channel in a bathtub. You have my heartiest support. Good luck and let me know how you get on. Now, just to get back to this, I'm in front of a tanker, okay? What's happened is I'm in a third of a ton roll, top Victorian copper bathtub. There's a tanker bearing down on me. It's a third of a mile long. I'm rowing like no one has ever rode in their entire lives before, desperately trying to get out of the way of this thing. It's a terrifying thing because about two hours beforehand, I. I had taken what, as it transpired, was not a very good navigating decision. I had thought two hours ago, I reckon I could probably get round the front of that, as it turned out. So I'm rowing in front of the tanker as fast as I possibly can, and my only thought is, I'm about to die. I'm about to get killed in the English Channel in a third of a ton roll, top copper piece of Victorian bathroom equipment. And there's one thought that popped into my head, and that thought was quite simply, who has right of way? Now, in my bath, I had a radio and the Sailor's Almanac. And so as I was frantically trying to row with one arm, I was flipping through the Sailor's Almanac, desperately trying to get to the page that tells you about who has right of way in the English Channel. And I finally got to it, and I read it, and it says, massive big tankers like the one about to crash into me have to give way to sailing ships. Sailing ships have to give way to rowing ships. Rowing ships have to give way to rowing ships of restrictive maneuverability. And that's got to be me in a third of a ton roll, top Victorian copper bathtub. And so I grabbed the radio and radioed up to the tanker captain and said, I am in a bath. I am in a bath. Back down, back down. I am in a bath. Over. Now, then the weirdest thing happened, which is that the tanker did divert around a bathtub for the first time in the maritime history of the world and create what the admiral later called a naval precedent in law. He said, this is the first time in the maritime history of the globe that a tanker has backed down to a piece of plumbing on the high seas. We are going to name that president in law after you, Tim. The Fitzheim Precedent. You can look it up. Lawyers, however, the problem wasn't over yet because I carried on rowing out in the English Channel. And then something went a Little bit awry in that. The mist started to come in. And then very quickly, as happens at sea, suddenly there was a massive storm that hit the English Channel. It's a terrifying thing to be at in any storm. This was a 4, 7. For people who don't go to sea, a 4, 7 will give you waves of the height of sort of three, three and a half meters. At one point, the storm got so bad it ripped the roll top of the Victorian copper bath. It popped out of the water. I realized I was essentially ballast dived across the bath, pushed it back in with my shoulder and ripped my shoulder so badly on the serrated edge of the bath that it went all floppy and stopped working. But I thought to myself, with one arm, I can still keep rowing through this. I am British. I carried on going and survived in that horrible storm for 40 minutes, having lost the support boat totally on my own, rowing with one arm. And after 4, 40 minutes they found me because apparently for 40 minutes I had been heroically rowing in a giant circle. They pulled me back in, but the disaster wasn't over yet because we were in French water. The French navy came on the radio and said that their solution to the Bath Channel, they were calling me a problem. Their solution was to put explosives on on my bath and blow it out of the water. Now, I had lost a lot of blood at this stage and I wasn't thinking very clearly from my arm, but I went on the radio and apparently said the following, just to remind you that the sinking of a registered British ship without the permission of the captain will be taken as an act of war. In Dover, you could just hear the coast guard going.

[Noreen Reels]

Now.

[Tim Fitzhayam]

The French then went away and looked this up in the legal book, right? And they worked out that actually in law, I was right. Now, then something very moving occurred because votes came from all the other nations in the English Channel, mainly Holland and Belgium, to take me and my bathtub back to the uk, which proved something vital to me. And that is, it's not just Britain, but all the other nations in the English Channel who hate the French. Now, I was in quite a bad way at this point. I had to go to hospital. I had to get patched back up again. But thanks to the navy, I got another crack at rowing the English Channel in my bathtub. And I did. I made it across the English Channel in the bath. Now, in the end, I ended up, due to a bet that went wrong, rowing the the bathtub not just across the English Channel, but round Kent and up to Tower Bridge. The fire ships came out that were last used at Winston Churchill's funeral. And lots of amazing things happened as a result of the Bath crossing. It raised a load of money for charity. I got made a Commodore in the Royal Navy, which is the fourth highest rank in the Royal Navy. It basically goes First Sea Lord, Second Sea Lord, Princess Anne, me. And I get my own flag and a port. I'm in charge of a port and being the Navy, they have to put me in charge of a port, but they've chosen to put me in charge of the port of Sudbury, which is 15 miles inland. And then the weirdest thing happened in that I got a letter from the Queen saying I had to go up to the palace for an audience with the Queen. I got up to the palace and normally you're not allowed to report anything that you say to the Queen. There's this whole like Chatham House rules thing. But she has allowed me to say a couple of things that we talked about. She said to me, gosh, that bathtub must have been awfully heavy. It must have weighed a half a ton. And I thought, this is my one moment of being Bond. And I just smoothed my hair down, looked her directly in the eye and went, well, it's actually only a third of a ton, ma'am, but still really rather heavy. And then she said, but did you not think about putting a shower curtain on it? And I said, well, I did consider it, but I couldn't decide on the color. And she said, I think blue, don't you? But more than all of these honours, more than all of these honours, I got a phone call from my beloved sponsor, Thomas Crapper and Company, right? And they phoned me up more than anything else. This is my most amazing thing. They phoned me up and they said, tim, in honor of the Bath Channel crossing, we at Thomas Crapper and Company are going to release a commemorative lavatory, a commemorative toilet named after you. It's an amazing thing about Great Britain that I don't think perhaps it's something that I have found to be very, very true. And I'll leave you with this thought that is that Great Britain is a land where you can turn to the great British public, look them directly in the eye and go, I'm going to do something really quite hard. You can say, I'm going to run up Kilimanjaro or I'm going to climb Everest. And the great British public will look you in the eye and they will go, well, it's not that hard, or you can look them in the eye and go, I'm going to do something really quite hard like run up Kilimanjaro or climb Everest or row the English Channel dressed as a dolphin or carrying a fridge or wrestling a weasel. And the great British public will look you directly in the eye and go, this man's a hero. Get right behind him, ladies and gentlemen, someone get the Prime Minister on the phone. I don't know what it says about Britain as a nation, but I have broken my entire body to prove it to be true. Thanks so much for listening. Good night.

[Catherine Cross]

Tim Fitzpiant's second attempt to cross the English Channel in his bath raised over £20,000 for Comic Relief and the Make Poverty History campaign. He went on to write a book about his adventure entitled all at One Man, One Bathtub, One Very Bad Idea. The bath now resides in the Maritime Museum of Great Britain. Coming up, A seamstress becomes an unexpected advocate when the Moth Radio Hour continues.

[Phil Jupitus]

Support for the Moth comes from Constant Contact with live coaching, email marketing, features such as drag and drop editing, and social media tools. Constant Contact is committed to helping small businesses and nonprofits become marketers. More@constant contact.com the moth is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts and presented by PRX.

[Maggie Nelson]

The moth is supported by audible.com Audible content includes more than 250,000 audio programs from leading audiobook publishers, broadcasters, entertainers, magazine and newspaper publishers, and business information providers. Audible content is downloaded and played back on your smartphone, portable device, or your PC. The Moth listeners might enjoy the Argonauts, written and read by Maggie Nelson.

[Unknown]

A few months later, we spent Christmas together in a hotel in downtown San Francisco. I had booked the room for us online in the hope that my booking of the room and our time in the room would make you love me forever.

[Maggie Nelson]

Audible is offering the Moth listeners a free 30 day trial membership. Just go to audible.com themoth and choose from over 250,000 titles and start listening from PRX.

[Catherine Cross]

This is the Moth Radio Hour. I'm Meg Bowles and our next story comes from Catherine Cross. Kathryn is a seamstress and mother of two and she told this story at the Union Chapel in London. And at our main stage events, we like to introduce our storytellers by asking each one the same question. Our host for the evening, Phil Jupitis, introduced Kathryn like this.

[Tim Fitzhayam]

I asked our next storyteller, when was the last time you took a risk? And she responded, I am risk averse, which is not the response I was hoping for. So I pushed her and then she gave me an even more magnificent answer, which was, I let out a wedding dress to make the bride think she'd lost wife, which is either the most wonderful or the most evil thing I've ever heard. And I can't make up my mind which is. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Catherine Cross. There it is. Katherine Cross. Come on.

[Noreen Reels]

It was late in the Evening when my 15 year old daughter came into the sewing room where I work at home. My kids would often come in and sit for a chat while I worked, but she was kind of hanging around and seemed a bit uncomfortable. I asked, is everything okay? And she says, yeah, fine. But I knew something was on her mind, so I stopped sewing. And I said, come on, out with it. What's up? Shrugs her shoulders. I know I'm going to have to tease it out of her, so I keep asking. And so she keeps saying, there's nothing, Ma. So I said to her, you know you can tell me anything, right? No, not this. She said, now I'm worried. So eventually I hand her a piece of paper and a pen and I said, do you think you might be able to write it down for me? So she sits down for what seems like eternity looking at the paper. And when she eventually writes something and hands it back to me, it reads, I'm gay. Oh, for God's sake. Is that all? I said, that doesn't matter at all to me. Don't be worrying about that at all, pet. Sure, I still love you and I always will, no matter what. And we hug and she goes off happier in herself. When she's gone, I think, I don't know what it is, but I don't think you're gay. Funny really, because I always imagined she'd come out to me as being gay. But the moment she said as I knew that wasn't it, I knew she was going to have to dig a bit deeper to figure out what was really going on. Over the next few weeks, she seems a lot happier in herself. But as the weeks turn into months, she's again becoming very withdrawn and not engaging with anybody. So when she comes back into the sewing room again late one evening, I have this awful sense of foreboding that she's going to drop some other kind of bombshell on me. So we go through the whole what's up? Nothing in my again. 12. Finally I say, are you trying to tell me you're not gay? And sure enough she says, yeah, so what then? Silence. I'm afraid to ask the next question, but I ask it Anyhow, and I said, is it something to do with gender? Do you want to be a boy? Oh, Ma, I think God made some awful kind of mistake. I don't want to be a boy. I am a boy. Okay, I reassure her once again. Everything's going to be just fine. I still love you and I always will. But could you just leave this one with me for a bit? Because I need a bit more time to get my head around this one. When she's gone, I think, oh, God, this can't be happening. Half of me thinks this kind of thing only happens on Jerry Springer. The other half thinks you. Yeah, sounds about right. I didn't know anything about transgender, to be honest. I thought it was men in drag. And I definitely had never heard of a girl wanting to be a boy. We didn't actually speak about it for quite a number of weeks. I was secretly hoping that if I didn't mention it, it would just all go away. So one day I tentatively broached the subject with her. And I say tentatively because I. I kind of feel that if I broach the subject with her, I'm somehow encouraging her to embark on this really difficult life. But difficult for who? I felt people would judge me as a mother as well as our family. I said, what do you want from life? Do you want surgery? You know, this is going to be really tough. You're not going to have any kids and you might not even have a partner. Could you not just be gay? I thought if I pointed out all the negative things that she might somehow change her mind. I didn't realize at this point that for her it wasn't a choice. It was just simply who she was. I'm afraid things got a bit heated and I said some things that I'm really rather ashamed of. You see, I'd always prided myself on being a really good mother. I was very liberal and really open minded. But you see, it's easy to say those things when they're outside your front door. When I was confronted with them, it made me take a very long, hard look at myself. And to be honest, I didn't really like what I saw. I kept blaming myself and asking. I should have insisted. She played with girls toys. I should have made her wear girls clothes. And then I asked myself, what's so bad about this anyway? Still have my child. She's not dead. She's not dying. Why am I so sad? Why does it feel like a death? I think back to the moment when she's born. Myself and my husband Were so excited and we asked the nurse, well, what is it? And she says, you have a daughter. And in those first few seconds I have images running like a movie in my head. I see a toddler in a pink frilly dress and a 10 year old schoolgirl in a pinafore and bobby socks. And then a woman out having coffee with me. But she'd never really worn that pink dress or the pinafore. Instead she'd played with boys toys and worn boys clothes. My friends had always commented what a tomboy she was, but I always thought it was a bit more than that. Now, I didn't know anything about transgender, so I didn't think it was that. But I always thought there was something very different about her. Toilet training had been a nightmare. Trying to convince her she had to sit down to pee. She couldn't do it standing up. Like her older brother Matt, she'd always played with the boys and seemed kind of irritated by the girls and constantly asked why it was she could not go to the same school as her friends, the boys school. It was about a week after our heated conversation that I by chance heard a woman speaking on the radio. She. She was talking about being transgender in Ireland and she gave details of her parents support group. So myself, my husband, decided we'd give it a go. I must admit I didn't like going. They were really lovely people, but I didn't want to be part of that group. I just wanted it all to go away. But I also knew that no matter what, I was going to support my child. I just didn't know how to do it. The support group organised a weekend away. A chance to meet other families and speak with professionals who were involved with the care of transgender people. When we arrived at the hotel on the Friday night, I realised that my daughter already knew quite a lot of the young people there. She was friends with them on Facebook, but they didn't know my daughter. They knew my son, Lucas. Oh, how I hated that name. I realized I hadn't thought this through very well and that it was going to be a bit awkward if we were calling her one thing and everybody else was calling her another name. So I quickly pulled her one side in the bar and I said, look, for this weekend I'm going to try my very best to call you by your new name and use male pronouns. And she, I should say he was delighted. Look, the place was miles away from anywhere, nobody knew us. So I thought it was a safe place to try out my new son. Yeah, I know that Sounds awful, but I really did need to just know what it would feel like. It wasn't easy and it felt really, really strange, but he was so happy. I couldn't but be happy for him too. And I thought, okay. So on the Saturday night, we all get dressed up and we go down to dinner. Lucas is dressed in a suit and a smart waistcoat. And after the dinner, there's a bit of a sing song in the bar. And Lucas spends most of the night up playing guitar and singing songs. He was really popular, couldn't get over how confident he was. And as I stood looking at him in the bar and admiring him, I thought, you know, yeah, I'm still grieving the loss of my daughter, but I am just loving my new son. I thought, right, we're just going to have to do this. We live in a small town where everybody knows everybody. And I was anticipating a lot of resistance to my child's new identity. And I was quite prepared to move somewhere new if things got too tough for him. I worried about how would I find the words to tell people and how would I cope with the reactions. Jeepers, we were going to be the talk of the town. With the help of the support group, I managed to find the words to tell a few of my close friends and neighbors. Oh, how I had underestimated people. What I found amazing was that very few found it surprising at all. It seemed to make sense to them. Of course, I didn't get to tell everybody in person, and some people had heard it from somebody else. And what was really lovely was that they found really subtle ways of letting me know that they'd heard. They might say, so how's Lucas getting on? And that gave me the opening to talk about it. And they could ask questions. We got cards and texts from people telling us they were thinking of us and how brave we were. I knew at some point I was going to have to go down to the school and make them aware of what was going on. And I was anticipating a bit of a battle. So I decided I wasn't going to bring Lucas with me, just in case there was a seat. So I walk into the principal's office and I am filled with trepidation. I had rehearsed this conversation many times in my head. But as I begin to tell him about Lucas, I find he already knows and Ollie's really concerned. Is he getting bullied or not? I'm taken off guard with this. I hadn't expected this. And the school were in no way obliged to accommodate Lucas. But but yet here they were. He asked, what bathroom did Lucas use? And I said, actually, he doesn't go to the bathroom at school. He's just not comfortable using either one. And he was horrified. He said, you make sure Lucas knows he can use whatever bathroom he wants. I felt so indebted to him. I couldn't believe somebody could be so accepting of a situation that I myself had found so very difficult to come to terms with. I left his office feeling like I'd had the wind taken out of my sails. But on the same point, I was walking on air. So we make plans to go to Dublin to change his name by deed pole. By this stage, I'm getting kind of used to it, and I think it kind of suits him. So the night before, my husband and I get ready the paperwork to sign off and renounce our daughter's name. I'm finding it really a emotional. But try my best to hide it because Lucas is so excited, can't sleep. So I start tidying a few cupboards upstairs, and I come across a box of old photographs when the kids were small. And as I sit on the bed looking through them, my husband and my oldest son Matt come in. I think even they shed a tear or two. I take out his communion dress that I'd made for him and his christening robe. And I realized the strangest thing about the name Lucas was probably I didn't choose it. Maybe that's why I hadn't liked it. I found a letter he'd sent to Santa Claus when He was about 9, and he'd asked for a wrestling ring and wrestlers and a racing car track, and there wasn't a doll in sight. And I thought, you know, this is so very much the right thing to be doing. This is who he is and who he's always been. And I realized that the daughter I'm mourning is the daughter I had expected to have. And maybe the pain of that would ease over time. As I put away the photographs and the dresses, I feel like I'm saying a final goodbye to my daughter. And I take out the photograph of Lucas playing guitar in the hotel, and I admire him once again and think about how very proud of him I am. I really do love my new son. Thank you.

[Catherine Cross]

Katherine Cross always imagined she'd eventually be a retired bridal seamstress living in Ireland. But instead, she says she's become an entirely different person. She's now working for the Transgender Equality Network in Ireland, advocating for students and providing training for teachers and school staff. She's also pursuing her master's in rights and Social policy at Maynooth University. You can find out more about Catherine and see a picture of her and her sons by visiting our website, themoth.org coming up, we'll hear a story of love and secret agents when the Moth Radio Hour continues.

[Phil Jupitus]

The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts and presented by prx.

[Maggie Nelson]

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[Catherine Cross]

The Moth Radio Hour from PRX. I'm Meg Bowles and our last story comes from Noreen Reels. Noreen has been a respected BBC broadcaster and novelist, but the one thing people never knew about her during her long career was that she had also been a secret agent. Here's Noreen Reels live at the MOF.

[Unknown]

During World War II, I was a pupil at the French lyce in London, but on reaching the ripe old age of 18, I was obliged to abandon my studies and either join the armed forces or work in a munitions factory. Well, that option did not thrill me, so I decided to become a member of the Women's Royal Naval Service. Because I liked the hat. I thought it was most seductive. But when I went to sign on, I was taken aside and closeted in a kind of windowless broom cupboard with a high ranking army officer who began asking me an awful lot of questions which had nothing to do with the Navy. He was leaping like a demented kangaroo, in and out of four languages. He seemed very surprised that I could keep up. He sent me to a large building in central London. Oh, I knew it well, but like the hordes of people who pass by every day, never had I imagined or even suspected that this was the headquarters of Churchill's secret army. And behind Those walls. Members of every occupied country were organizing acts of sabotage and the infiltration into enemy territory at night of secret agents by parachute, fishing boat, Felucca and submarine. Without realizing what had happened, I had been recruited into the hidden world of secret agents on special missions. But I never got my seductive hat. I was affected to f the France section. It was an exhausting but exciting, thrilling, exhilarating life, full of action and emotion. We lived some very intense moments. I got to know an awful lot of agents, and I shared many confidences with those who were about to leave. They told me of their concerns for their families. Many of them were married, with young children, of their own apprehension of torture and of death. They knew they only had a 50% chance of coming back. And they were afraid. Brave men are always afraid. Courage isn't the absence of fear. It's the willingness, the guts, if you like, to face the fear. They faced their fears and they left. I remember one. He was a Jew, a radio operator, and he was going in on a second mission. Well, for a Jew to go in at all was extremely dangerous. But many of them did. We had quite a few Jewish agents, but a radio operator, a second mission, a radio operator, was the most stressful, dangerous mission of all. He lived on his nerves. He could never relax. He was always on the run, always with the Gestapo just a couple of steps behind him. He needed nerves of steel, because once infiltrated, his life expectancy was six weeks. I was with this agent on the night before he left. There was no romantic association. I was just keeping him company. After all, he was an old man. He was almost 35. During the evening, he drew out of his pocket a box, small velvet box. And inside there was a gold chain with a star of David and a dove of peace hanging on it. And he said, I'd like you to have this. Thank you so much. I said, I'm terribly touched. I couldn't possibly accept it. And he looked so sad, so disappointed. He said, please do. Oh, please do. All my family in France has perished in a German concentration camp. I have nobody left in the world. And I'd like to think that somebody remembers me. Somebody perhaps even thinks of me when I'm over there. So I took his little box, promising to give it back to him when he returned. But he didn't return. Those who did return were taken immediately for a debriefing. And I often accompanied the two debriefing officers. And for me, it was a revelation to see their different reactions. Some returned with their nerves absolutely shattered. In shreds. Their hands were shaking uncontrollably as they lit cigarette after cigarette. And others were as cool as cucumbers. And I realized then that we all have a breaking point. And we can never know until we're faced with a situation what that breaking point actually is. I grew up attending those debriefing sessions. Many of those agents weren't very much older than I. Hearing their incredible stories, witnessing their courage, their total dedication. I changed almost overnight from a teenager. And I became a woman. One Saturday evening. It was a snowy evening. It was in early February. I was told that I was to leave the next morning and go down to Beaulieu. Now, Beaulieu was the last of the many secrets training schools. Now these secret training schools were dotted all over England. And the agents, the future agents, attended each one in turn during their long, tough six months training. It took eight to nine months to train a radio operator. It was in Hampshire, deep in the New Forest. Only six women worked at Beaulieu during the war, and I am the last survivor. We were used as decoys, and you won't believe this, but the local people hadn't the remotest idea what was going on under their very noses. We worked in the neighbouring seaside towns of Bournemouth and Southampton. My pitch was usually Bournemouth. And it was there that we taught future agents how to follow someone. Find out where they were going, who they were seeing without being detected. How to detect if someone were following them and throw them off. How to pass messages without any sign of recognition or even moving our lips. Now this took place on the beach, in the park, on benches in the town, in telephone booths and in the tea rooms above the Gaumont cinema. The last exercise was reserved for those future agents whom the instructors thought might talk. Now, the instructors were with them all the time. They watched their every movement. They analyzed it all. And if they thought that they might talk, they would have a carefully prearranged, set up meeting between a decoy and a future agent in one of the, rather the two grand hotels in Bournemouth. The meeting would take place in the bar or the lounge, followed by an intimate dinner. Tit. A tit. It was our job to get them to talk, to betray themselves. In fact, the Brits didn't talk much. Foreigners sometimes did, especially the young ones. Oh, I understood. They were lonely. They were far from their homes and their families. They didn't even know if they would have a home or even in countries to go back to once the war was over. It was flattering to have a young Girl hanging on their every word. Well, of course, if I had taken part in the earlier exercises, I couldn't take part in that one because they would know me. And one of the others took over. Now, before they were returned to London at the end of their month in Beaulieu. And it was in London, in their country section, that their fate would be decided. Each one had an interview with our commandant, Colonel Woolrich. We called him Woollybags. Behind his back he had all the reports from all the different training schools. And he made his report and that went back to London. But his report carried weight. Now, if they had talked during the interview, a door was open and I, for example, another decoy would walk in and Woolly Beggs would say, do you know this woman? And they realized they'd been tricked. Most of them took it well, but I'll never forget one. He was a Dane. Oh, a glorious blond Adonis. When I entered the room, he looked at me with surprise. And then almost pained. And finally, blind fury overtook him. He half rose in his chair and he said, you bitch. Well, no woman likes being called a bitch. But as Woollybag said to me, if he can't resist talking to a pretty face over here, he's not going to resist when he's over there. And it won't only be his life which is in danger, it will be many others. I think it was then that I realized that my whole life was a lie. I lied to everybody. I had to. To those agents, to my friends, to my family. My mother thought I worked for the Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries. She died at 80 without any ever knowing the truth. Because all of us in the Secret army were under the Official secrets act for 60 years until those files were opened in the year 2000. And then most of us were dead anyway. On the eve of my 19th birthday, I fell madly, hopelessly in love with an agent. He was one of our best agents. A crack. He'd just returned from a very successful second mission and he was adulated. He was a legend in the section. I'd heard all about him, but I never thought I'd meet him. And then suddenly, one evening, he was there. And it was as if our eyes locked across a crowded room and we were irresistibly drawn one towards the other. I couldn't believe that he could love me. He was handsome. He was 12 years older than I. He was a hero. He must have met many beautiful, sophisticated, elegant, gorgeous women. We had, he told me. But he said he'd been looking for me. Our Idyl lasted three months until he left on his next mission. I was terrified. It was a very dangerous mission and they said only he could carry it off. But I was so afraid. But he reassured me. He said he was a survivor and he promised me that this would be his last mission. And when he came back, he'd never leave me again. We'd grow old together. The day he left, we had lunch, just the two of us, in a little intimate restaurant. We both knew that it would be many months perhaps before we'd be together again. And we kept emotion out of our conversations. I think we're both afraid of breaking down. I know if we hadn't, I would have broken down and I'd have begged him not to go. I imagine you've all been in love. Can you picture what it's like to be terribly in love and know that all you have is a few hours? This moment in time. He took me back to the office and we said goodbye at the bus stop. I don't think we even said goodbye. As I walked through the door, I turned. He was standing on the pavement watching me. He smiled and raised his hand to his red parachutist bury in a final salute. He was infiltrated that night, but I never saw him again. The mission was successful, but he didn't return. And I was left with a little cameo of a perfect love. Perfect perhaps because it had been so brief. When the news that I dreaded came through, they tried to comfort me. They told me I should be proud. He was incredibly courageous. A wonderful man who had realized that there was a force of evil in the world that had to be annihilated. But that freedom has a price tag. He paid that price with his life. But I didn't want a dead hero. I didn't want a medal in a velvet box. I wanted Bill. All those agents in the Secret army were volunteers. They didn't have to go, but they went. Almost half of them never returned. Like Bill, they gave their youth their joie de vivre, their hopes and dreams for the future. They gave their all for us. They gave their today so that we might have our tomorrow.

[Catherine Cross]

That was Noreen Re old. Noreen kept her secret until she was 74 years old when the Official Secrets act was finally lifted. By that time, she was one of the last survivors of The World War II Special Operations Executive or the so called Churchill Secret Army. Noreen told me that the hardest part about keeping her secret during the war was when people would suggest she was somehow shirking her responsibilities by not contributing anything to the war effort. Both her parents died without ever knowing how much she actually did do. Her father died just one year before the Secrets act was lifted. You can find all the stories you heard in this hour at the itunes store or on our website where where you can also see pictures and find out more about our storytellers. That's all for this hour. Thanks so much for listening and we hope you'll join us again next time for the Moth Radio Hour.

[Phil Jupitus]

Your host this hour was Meg Bowles. Meg also directed the stories in the show. The rest of the the Moth directorial staff includes Kathryn Burns, Sarah Haberman, Sarah Austin, Janess and Jennifer Hickson. Production support from Mooj Zaidy. Moth Stories Are True is remembered and affirmed by the Storytellers. Most Moth events are recorded by Argos Studios in New York City supervised by Paul Ruest. Our theme music is by the Drift. Other music in this hour from the definitive collection of British military bands Dickie Nolan and Harry Jones James and his Orchestra. You can find links to all the music we use at our website. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by me, Jay Allison with Vicki Merrick at Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts. This hour was produced with funds from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, the National Endowment for the Arts, and the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation. Committed to building a more just, verdant and peaceful world. The Moth Radio Hour is presented by prx. For more about our podcast, for information on pitching your own story and everything else, go to our website themoth.org.