Leah Tao (4:02)

From prx. This is the Moth Radio Hour. Hi, I'm Leah Tao and I'll be your host this hour at the Moth, people get up on stage and they tell true stories from their own lives. We first started doing this back in 1997, so we've been producing stories for a lot of years. And in the next hour, we're going to play you three of our favorites. The first one comes out of the Moth Shop community program. That's where we go into schools and homeless shelters and community and we work with people on their stories. The storyteller you're about to hear is Sherman Powell. His friends call him O.T. which stands for old timer. We first met him in a drug rehab center for homeless men eight years ago, and you can definitely say he's been around the block. Here he is, Sherman OT Powell live at the mall.

Sherman O.T. Powell (4:55)

Greetings, ladies and gentlemen. My name is OT And I'm a retired pickpocket. I see a lot of you reaching for your wallets right now. But I did say retire, because if I wasn't, you'd be too late. Anyway, let me tell you how I became acquainted with this way of life. I'm from St. Louis, Missouri, and I was about 15 years old. It was in the summer, around May or June. I was working in Ray's pool room and these guys came in. They were about six of them, multicolored outfits, looked like human peacocks coming through the door. Beautiful girls with big asses, diamond rings on their hands. You know, the cars match the suits. You know, they had bankrolls big enough to choke a horse. I had been confused about what I wanted to be in life. But when I see these guys, I say, that's what I want to be. Whatever they is, that's what I want to be, you know? So these guys came in, and as Faith would have it, they stayed right around the corner from my mother. Well, I was staying with my mother, and they stayed right around the corner from there. So I made myself acquainted with them, and I became the errand boy. I would run to the store and get the food. I would go take the car, get it washed. I would walk the dogs and all this stuff, you know. And in the process, I would get a few dollars. And I was learning how to cheat in cards, and I was learning how to cheat in dice. I could shoot four pair of dice, and I could deal off the top of the deck, and I could deal off the bottom of the deck. And so I'm sitting there, and one night the girls come in, and I hear the girls talking about how much she took. She took 1200 out this guy's pocket. And the other one says, she took 600 out this guy's pocket. I say, this Kodia ain't getting me no money. I want to be a fucking pickpocket, you know? So this is what I want to be. So I goes to my tutor, I tell him, I say, I want to be a pickpocket. He said, you don't know nothing about pickpockets. I didn't know nothing about cards and dicey. You taught me that. Taught me how to pickpocket, right? And so he commences to teach me, but he don't know that much about it himself. You understand what I'm saying? And so I get the basics, but I'm not that good. So Mardi Gras season rolls around, so we all gets together and we go down to Mardi Gras. And so he tells me, look, I want you to go buy five different costumes. I said, what? Yeah, buy five different costumes. Batman, Superman, all these different type of costumes. You understand what I'm saying? Mickey Mouse and all this stuff. I said, what I'm doing now, he said, in case you get hot in one costume, you could run to the hotel and turn it into another costume, because it's Mardi Gras time and everybody's in costume, you know. And so I put it on my Batman costume and I'm walking down the street and I'm waiting to pick some pockets. And you see this redneck, this redneck foreman. With these beer overalls on and a flat ass. And he's walking down the street. And the wallet is jumping in and out of his pocket like fish out of the street. You ain't got to do it up a tie in the motherfucking, grab it. You understand what I'm saying? So I see the police. I know I'm getting hot. So I run back to the hotel. I change my costume and come back out with a Daffy Duck costume. I get some more water, get hot. I run back to the hotel, come back with a Buzz Bunny costume. So I'm steady taking wallet to change the costumes, right? And so at the end of the night, I tell my tutor. I said, this was a piece of cake. He said, let me tell you one thing. If you think that you was that good, take your ass to New York. He said, that's what. If you can do it in New York, you can do it anywhere. I started packing my bag that night, right? I'm headed for New York. So he came and told me, say, look, here's a letter of an introduction. You got $500? I said, yeah, here's a letter of an introduction. When you get to New York, I want you to go looking for Rapper. He's a Gypsy. He'll smooth out your edges. Because you're not really a pickpocket yet. So I said, okay. So I get to New York. And I check in the Howard Johnson Hotel. On 8th Avenue, 52nd Street. The gypsy place is about three docks down the street there on the same street, 8th Avenue. And so the next day, I go to the Gypsy place. And it's this little storefront. With these two ladies in the front and got Cabot. And they're distributing palms and all this bullshit. So I go in and I tell them. I said, well, I'm looking for Ralphie. So she said, wait right here. So she goes to the back. And Rafi comes out and I give them the letter. I give them the $500. Now, Raffy is a thin, smooth guy. Silk black hair. Looks something like girlfriend pilfer mustache. So he tells me, come on in the back. He takes me in the back. And all you could see was mannequins everywhere. Mannequins with coats on. Mannequins with no coats on. And mannequins with just pocketbooks. And mannequins with just pockets. And there's a bunch of little gypsy Kids in the Corner, ranging from five to 10, they was picking pockets. No wonder they so goddamn good. They start early, right? And so he introduces me to this guy called the fat man. And the fat man was. He was to be my teacher, right? So the fat man comes out, he says, you pickpocket? I said, yeah. He said, let me see what you know how to do now. On all these pocketbooks and on all these wallets, if, you know there's bells that you put on baby booties. Well, everything has a bell on the wallets, the pocketbooks. And if you pick something and the bell ring means you're caught. And so he said, let me see what you can do. So I'm going through these crowd, picking the wallets and picking the pocketbooks and bells ringing like a motherfucker. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. He said, you're not a pickpocket, you know. He said, yeah, we better start from the beginning, you know. So that man teaches me how to. And he was graceful. I mean, I could see he would go through a crowd of mannequins. And I mean, like, he was smooth as a panther. And he would go on the ball of his feet like a ballet dancer. And he would go through and the bell ring, and we'd come out on the other end of the crowd with six or seven wallets. I said, that's what I want to be like, right? I want to be just like that. So every day I would come from 9 to 12. You understand what I'm saying? I would practice every day from nine. Every day was Sunday from nine to 12. I was there and he taught me, and I learned right and learned. Sooner or later, you know, I, I. I was getting it together. And sometime I would mess up and he would slap my hand. He'd say, gently, boy, gently, like a pianist, you know. You're a pickpocket. If there's only three walls in the world and the preacher and the Pope has one, and the president has one, you supposed to have one, you understand? Yes, sir, I understand. You know, so you're a pickpocket. That's your art. If you go to heaven and there's professionals listening up there, and he's, I'm a professional doctor. I'm a professor lawyer, you said. I say, God, I'm a professor pickpocket, you know, so you be a professional with this thing here that you're doing. So after three months of this hard drive from Fat Man, I finally graduated. He told me, there's nothing else I Could teach you. You're on your own. I was off and running. The first place I went was Grand Central Station. I went to Grand Central Station. It was like a pilgrim. It was like a Muslim. It was in Mecca. It was all these people. I said, jesus fucking Christ. So I went to pick and watch. I was just going through the crowd, hitting wallet, getting wallets. And I stayed there for about, oh, about two, three weeks until I got hot. I knew I got hot because the police started watching me and stuff. So I said, it's time for me to leave. So then I picked another spot, 57th street and 3rd Avenue. So I became comfortable with doing bus stops and stuff, you know? So I was picking pockets there. But I stayed there quite a while, and people went to complain. So the police set up a bus for me. They sent some undercover police to get me, right? So I'm on the bus one day. It's crowded, packed like this place is now. It's packed. You understand what I'm saying? And I'm going through the crowd, and I hit this old lady. She got on her pearls and beautiful diamond earrings. So I hit mom and get this. While I close the back. And when you close the back, you have to call. Ooh. To make sure you don't hear the sound, right? Close that back. So I hit this guy with the inside pocket. I spin around and get this guy's back pocket. So I'm coming through, and at the corner of my eyes, I see these lights turning, and I notice this is police lights, right? Then the bus driver starts to pull it over to the clear where there ain't no bus sign at. I said, oh, shit, I'm fucking busted. Right? Then I look at the corner of my eyes again. Here comes the guy with a crew cut. I know he's the firebow. I know he's the police. He's trying to get to the crowd to get to me. So as he's rushing toward me, I'm rushing toward the front. But as I'm rushing, I'm putting wallets back. Bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. I put everything back, right? I put all the fucking Wallace back. By the time I get to the front door and the sergeant get over, he said, grab him. We got him, sergeant. We got him. So the sergeant grabs. I said, let me. I haven't did anything. And you had. Did he search him? So he searched himself, sergeant. He don't have no wallets on him. I thought you said he had wallet. He said, I'm telling you, I was washing him. So he's waiting for me. So he goes to the lady, said, check your pocketbook. She said, I got my wallet. He said, check it. I got my wallet. So s. Get off the bus. She said, look, I don't want you in this precinct anymore. You understand? I want you. If I catch you this precept, I said, this is a free country. Do you understand what I'm saying? I said, yes, sir. So I goes around the corner and walk out. By the time I get around the corner, I kind of speed up my walk. And I said to myself, I look up, I said, I saw that. I said, well, big man, you might have taught me how to get them out the pocket, but you sure as hell didn't teach me how to put him back. You understand what I'm saying? And if there is just three wallets and the President had one, and the Pope, I. I'll damn sure had a third one, you know. But now I want to tell you that I didn't stop picking Pocket by choice. It was due to a deterioration of my health and too much of cocaine and alcohol, not to mention a pretty little old lady by the name of Judge Kirkpatrick. She told me, if you come in this courtroom one more time, I'm going to send you to a tropical island called Rockers. And so I felt it was better to stop while I was ahead. So today I haven't did drugs in about two years. I haven't smoked in two years. I'm with aa. I'm studying now to be a. To be a home care attendant, you know, and I go to church every Sunday, and that's my story.

Leah Tao (14:16)

That was Sherman ot Powell telling his first moth story back in 2002. He's been back to tell more stories for us, including one about a time he got busted in Arkansas and wound up on a chain gang. He also came with us on our first west coast tour, and so did another Moth storyteller, Steve Osborne. He's a New York City cop, and he's also been featured here on the Moth Radio Hour. And of course, Steve the cop and OT the retired pickpocket became fast friends. I remember in San Francisco, we were staying in the Tenderloin, which is a pretty rough neighborhood, and the two of them would walk down the street and be able to decode every shady deal that was coming, going down on every corner. It took them seconds to decipher who was selling and who was buying and who was being conned and for how much. They were like the Siskel and Ebert of crime detection. If you go to the moth.org you can see pictures from the tour, including one that Steve took of OT holding up a sign they found that said, beware of pickpockets and loose women. Here's OT talking about his experience with the moth.

Sherman O.T. Powell (15:18)

When you guys came, that was just like an answer to a prayer because now I was trying to understand how to tell stories, how to cut this out, bring this in. I got to liking it, you know, and I had plenty of stories to tell, as you know. It was wonderful. The first time I ever got on stage was at the Players Club. It was a beautiful experience. I remember one time I went to this place over on Roosevelt island and it was, I think it was one of the best performances I ever done. And I really enjoyed it because it was senior citizens and they were handicapped senior citizens. They were in wheelchairs and walkers and they didn't usually have any type of entertainment. And so the Marth outreach program decided to go over there and liven up the show for them. And that was just a beautiful ordeal. I mean, they came up and asked me all kind of questions after the show. They wanted to know this. They wanted to know this. And you could tell by the, the sparkle in their eyes that they really appreciated us coming over and spending some time with them.

Leah Tao (16:21)

That was maude storyteller Sherman O.T. powell. We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we'll have a story by a Mormon virgin about a love life in New York City. Stay tuned.

Narrator (16:51)

The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts and presented by the Public Radio Exchange.

Sponsor Voice (16:59)

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Leah Tao (17:35)

From PRX. This is the Moth Radio Hour. I'm Leah Tao. The moth is true stories told live on stage. No notes, no safety net, no second takes. Next up is Elena Baker. She told this story of a show we did in Cleveland and the theme that night was when worlds Collide. Here's Elna, live at the mall.

Ed Gavigan (18:00)

So I'm 27 years old and I've never had sex. I also don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't do drugs, and I don't drink coffee. I'm Mormon. Yay. And, you know, it's hard being Mormon in New York City and not drinking and smoking and whatever, but it's especially hard to try to live in New York and not have sex, because, you know, it's like sex in the city. And, you know, I'm young and I want to have relationships and be able to experience those things. And instead, after six years of living in the city and not having sex, the longest relationship I was able to sustain was four weeks. And that's only because he was out of town for two of them. And, you know, in addition to that, like, there's this huge part of me that would love to be considered sexy, but, you know, if you're not selling sex, you really shouldn't advertise. So instead, you know, I, like, present myself as cute or as someone in the audience pointed out, like, I'm on Star Trek. Thank you. So kind. So, you know, I'd gotten good at thinking of myself as being cute. And I remember one time I was walking through the East Village, and I passed this vintage boutique, and I walked in and there was all this vintage lingerie, and I happened upon this slip, and it was literally the sexiest thing I'd ever seen. It was like. It was hanging on like an invisible Lauren Bacall. It was like dark navy blue with this blue lace at the top and these thin straps, and I couldn't help myself. I tried it on, and I remember I looked in the mirror at myself, and for the first time in my life, I was like, I'm sexy. Who knew that I could be sexy? And woohoo. So I bought it. And, you know, it's not like any guy's allowed to see me in it because even when you're Mormon, once you get married, you have to wear the garment. So it sits in a drawer in the back of my closet. But occasionally, late at night, I'll take it out and try it on and look in the mirror and be like, I'm still sexy, and put it back in the drawer. I think there's a lot of misperceptions that people have about Mormons. And more than anything, the one that bothers me is this idea that Mormons say, no. No sex, no drugs, no alcohol, which I think would make me seem like a very boring person. But whereas I say no to certain things, I try to say yes to everything else, which makes me very pleasant. And I learned the power of saying yes when I was going to college at nyu, they used to have these career fairs that they would set up for the business students. And I was a drama major. So, like, they didn't even set up booths for us. They sort of saw what was coming. Unemployment. But if you were a stern business student, there would be all these companies trying to recruit you. So one day I was passing through this recruitment hall, and a man stopped me, and he was like, are you a stern business student? And so I said, yes. He said, are you interested in a job at Morgan Stanley? Yes. And I just kept answering yes to all of his questions. And before I knew it, I had a free triangle highlighter with the three different colors. I was like, this is amazing. And so I just started doing that all the time. I would say yes. And I ended up stumbling into a paper convention. And next thing I knew, I went to a bridal convention. And I kept getting all these free trinkets just by saying yes. And it all led up to the mother of all conventions. I had some friends in town, and we went to the Marriott in Times Square, and we were having breakfast, and my friend happened to glance under the table, and there was a badge, and it said, Bob Barnett, 711 convention. And I was like, yes. So we go downstairs in this huge banquet celebrating 75 years of 7 11. So I start mingling with people, and I end up meeting the woman who organized the whole convention. So she starts asking me for my feedback, and I'm like, I go to conventions all the time, and this is the best convention I've ever been to. And she's like, well, are you going on today's activities? And I was like, oh, yes. So she gave me four tickets to Madame Tussauds, four tickets to Radio City Music Hall. And then she said, will I be seeing you on tonight's cruise? Yes. And then she didn't give me tickets, so I was like, oh, but, you know, I. You sent all this stuff, and I never got anything. And she was like, what? She ran off and then came back with four tickets worth $150 each on a dinner cruise around Manhattan. So that night, me and my friends got dressed up, and we go into this cruise, and literally, there's like, 50711 employees and us. So I started making friends. And, like, I didn't lie. Like, when people asked Me what I did for 7 11. I was like, come on, man, leave work at work. You know, we're here to have fun. And then they serve us this four course dinner. And at the end of it, you know, we're eating our dessert and my friend leans in and he's like, elna, I dare you to make a toast. And like, you know, I don't drink, so I've never made a toast, but I've seen movies. So I was like, yes. So I take my glass and dink, tink, tink, and everybody shut up. I would like to make a toast to 711 for redefining convenience. And they were like, yes. And what I love about saying yes is like, it's like where you stand start at the beginning of the day and where you end up can be two totally different places just based on all the things that you say yes to. And yet then there's this whole other side of my life where I do say no, and sex being the biggest obstacle of them. And, you know, I think it's one thing to say no to sex when you've been in a two week relationship, but it's an entirely different experience when you feel like you're in love. And I met my yes counterpart four years ago. I was working at a TV show. He was in the audience and we started talking, and it was immediately I was like, it's you. And he was like, it's you. And we were like, yes. And our first date was amazing. We were walking down the streets of New York and we happened upon a movie set. And he was like, we should sneak in and pretend like we're extras. And I was like, yes. And so we were in the back of all these scenes and we ended up in the makeup trailer. And the woman was like, did the dress send you here? And we were like, yes. And she said, what did he send you here for? And at the same time, we both said, black eyes. And she gave us these huge black eyes. And then we just spent the rest of the day running around New York City with giant black eyes. And it was incredible. And literally every date, one after the other, was, like, even more exciting. And really, there was only one problem. He didn't know that I was Mormon, probably because I didn't tell him. And, you know, I totally rationalized it. I was like, you know, in addition to being Mormon, I am many other things. But really, like, I wanted to be able to date him, and I wanted it to be more than two or four weeks. And so I didn't tell him. And, you know, then, like, two months went by, and then you start to feel guilty because you start to feel like the person doesn't really know you because they only know half of you. And so I told him, you know, as casually as you can say, that I was like, oh, you know, by the way, I'm Mormon. And he's like, what, Elna? I'm an atheist. Can you be with an atheist? Yes. Can you be with a Mormon? And he looked at me and he was like, yes. And so we kept dating, and we kept going on our adventures, and it was great, except that there were these grander things that we were that would not leave us alone no matter how hard we tried. And I remember one of them in particular was when I found out that he didn't believe people had souls. I was like, what? Like, I really didn't. I thought irregardless of religion. Everyone believed that. But he was like, no, I don't believe in souls. And I was like, well, then what's inside of you? He's like, well, my, you know, DNA. And I was like. And I remember I stopped him on the sidewalk, and I put my hands on his shoulders, and I just looked into his eyes, and he's like, what are you doing? I'm like, I am looking at your soul, and I can see it, and I can hear it, and I know that it's there. And so he said, you know, well, what does my soul have to say? And so I listened, and I was like, it says, fuck you. Fuck you. I've been living inside you for 29 years, and you've been ignoring me the entire time. I was like, it's not like Mormons are supposed to swear. But then when making a religious point, that was the only word that came into my head. And so we kept dating, even though, like, at this point, I realized my soulmate doesn't actually believe in souls. But, like, I was willing to be okay with that. But then, you know, the whole sex thing comes up, and he's like, you know, are we going to have sex? And I was like, no, no. And so then he started to pull away and he started to retreat. And it's so interesting because every girl knows when a guy is starting to phase her out. It's like, even if coincidentally, he didn't answer his phone that day, it's like, you know, because you feel it. And so I knew that he was phasing me out, and I started thinking, well, why? Well, it's probably because I'm Mormon. And it's probably because I won't have sex. So then I really started to think about those things, you know, not as the way things are or as necessity, but as, like, truth. Like, you know, what if this person is the love of my life and I end up marrying some Mormon guy because I'm supposed to. That I like, okay, and I regret the decision for the rest of my life? Or, you know, what if he's right and God doesn't exist? And then I end up making this sacrifice for an entirely imaginary reason. And then also, you know, like sex, when you feel like you could love someone, it just feels like the natural progression of things, not that it's this awful thing. And so then I was like, well, you know, maybe I could have sex. No. No. And then we went out again, and we met up. And right when I saw him, I could tell it was going to be one of the last times that we saw each other. And we went to this outdoor exhibit, but it started to rain, so we ended up back at my apartment. We put on a dvd. We made grilled cheese sandwiches. It was like the middle of the afternoon on a Tuesday, and we were watching the movie, but I was still wet from the rain. So I stood up and went into my room to change, and I took off my T shirt, and I was just going to put another shirt on when I opened my drawer and I saw that blue slip. And I was like, what if you put that on? I was like, no, you can't put that on. It's like the middle of the afternoon on a Tuesday. That would be so weird. But then also it's like, but you own that and you've never worn it, you know? And also, like, what is this thing, this sex thing? And, like, you can say yes to that. And what I like about saying yes is that when you say yes, everything can change. And sometimes you want things to change. And so I took that slip out and I put it on, and I walked out into the living room. And he was like, what are you doing? And I was like, shh. And I walked up to him and we started kissing. And then we laid down on the couch and we were kissing. And the moment started to build more than it had before. And as this was happening, I leaned into his ear and I heard myself say, you need to pray and find out if God exists. And he was like, what? And I was like, what? And I said, nothing. Nothing. I didn't say anything. And so then we, you know, started to kiss again. And the moment Started to build again, and then it happened again. I leaned into his ear and I said, how can you know that God doesn't exist unless you've at least asked? And he was like, what are you saying? And I was like, I don't know. I just want to have sex right now. And instead I have God Tourette syndrome. And so he sat up, and I sat up, and he was like, elna, what are you trying to ask me? And I was like, well, look, the only thing. The only reason I believe the things that I do is because I prayed and asked. And how can you know for sure that something isn't true unless you at least ask? And so he said, do you want me to pray? Yes. And so he said, okay, I can do that. And I was like, really? And he, you know, left. And the minute he left my apartment, I remember I knelt down and I prayed like I've never prayed in my life. When you say God, you can never. You never have to answer another one of my prayers, but answer this one. And if he prays, tell him you're there. And then, of course, I made the mistake of telling my sister about this. And then she told my parents, and then my parents told my uncle and aunt and my grand. And the next thing I know, there's like a Mormon family tree across America praying that if he prays, he'll get an answer. And then I didn't hear from him for two weeks. And then when I did, we agreed to meet up in Union Square. And we met up, and we sat on a bench together. And at first it was just small talk. And so finally I just asked the question I most wanted to ask. I said, did you pray? And he said, yes. And I was like, you did? What happened? And he said that he sat in his room in silence and that he prayed, and he asked God if God existed. And that he listened for a long time. And then he realized that if he did get an answer, it would just be himself telling himself that he got an answer because he wanted to be with me and that it wouldn't be real. And that was it. And the relationship ended. And, you know, it's funny because, you know, as hard as he tried to find God for me, and as hard as I tried to have sex for him, we ultimately were these things that we were a Mormon and an atheist. And yet, you know, before that, I always thought that I didn't have sex because I was Mormon, but I realized I don't have sex because I don't want to have it. Yet. And that for me, sometimes saying no is actually saying yes. Thank you.

Leah Tao (34:13)

That was telling. Elna Baker. Elna is the author of a wonderful book with a long title, the New York Regional Mormon Singles Halloween Dance. Elna first came to the Moth through our open mic nights, which we call story slams. That's where anyone can just show up and put their name in the hat if they want to tell a story. Go to themoth.org to learn more. You're listening to the Moth Radio Hour and we'll be back in a moment with a story about what happens when things get so bad they can't get any worse. And then they do.

Narrator (35:07)

The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts and presented by the Public Radio Exchange.

Sponsor Voice (35:15)

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Leah Tao (35:50)

This is the Moth Radio Hour. I'm Leah Tao. Up next is a story by Ed Gavigan. Some of you may have heard Ed on another Moth Radio Hour where he told an intense story about being stabbed on the streets of New York. Well, we're about to play you the unbelievable story about what happened to him after that. And for those of you who didn't hear the first story, don't worry, Ed gives the background to start.

H (36:24)

So when the phone rang that morning, I didn't want to pick it up. I was in a world of pain. I had everything hurt. My body, my head. I was an emotional and a physical wreck. And I looked over at the caller ID and I could see that it was the district attorney's office calling. And so I knew that it was Assistant District Attorney Kennedy calling. And I knew what he was calling about, but I didn't know exactly what he wanted. He was calling about a case where five guys were in custody for attempted murder, and they were gang members from a gang called the Latin Kings. And they had come in from Brooklyn on the night before Thanksgiving, and their mission was to kill somebody that night as part of an initiation. They were hoping to move up in the management ranks of the gang. Kind of like Outward Bound for urban thugs. And you never think that you're going to be the guy whose whole life changes forever because you choose to walk down one side of the street instead of the other side. But as I turned off of Bleecker street to walk down the block that night, I picked the right hand side of the street and I walked into their ambush. And about 15 minutes later, I was being wheeled into the emergency trauma room at St. Vincent's with multiple stab wounds from three different knives. One of them was. Had a 10 inch blade. And the surgeon operated the rest of the night to try and save me. I needed two complete blood transfusions to keep me in place until he could do his work. And I was conscious up until they put me out for the surgery. And I was pretty certain that I was not going to make it. In fact, everybody was so sure that there was no way I could live that they gave my case to the homicide detectives, I guess to save on the paperwork when I eventually died. But they took out organs and they removed about a third of my intestines. And I was on life support. And when I came off of life support, the nurse came in with a clipboard and she wanted to talk to me about my insurance. Well, I was self employed, so I was insurance free. And they let me though, have a special program at St. Vincent's for people with no insurance, which consisted of a bottle of Percocet and a cane and a bag to put all my crap in. And they said as they pulled out the morphine and the catheter and the chest tubes and the oxygen mask, they said, come back in two weeks, we want to take a look at those stitches. And my mother, who had sat by my bedside for the whole thing, said, you need to come back to Wyoming where I grew up and where the whole family was. And she goes, we gotta leave this horrible city and, you know, get a plane ticket and just come back and be safe and get out of here. And I agreed. I felt like I could use a little break. And we flew back to Wyoming and my two brothers and my sister were there, and they just could not believe what, what had transpired. And they said, you know, what, what the hell went on? And I said, you know what, I want to tell you this. I want to tell you everything that happened, but I'm so happy to be alive. I feel so lucky. I want to go out into the mountains, all right, because, you know, we grew up in Wyoming and we have this camping thing. And I said, let's drive out into the hills, and we'll make a fire on a hill. I'll. I'll look at the stars, and I'll tell you what happened. And you can, you know, kind of understand what it was like. So they're like, all right, we'll drive out in the mountains. You can tell us a story in front of a big fire.

Ed Gavigan (40:10)

All right.

H (40:11)

So my sister gets in her Honda, and she's like, listen, I have to work in the morning, so we got to take two cars so I can drive back. Swine. She goes in the Honda with one of my brothers, and I'm with my other brother and his. He's got a 1966 GTO. So we're following her driving out at dusk across the prairie into the mountains. And my brother is driving. He's looking over at me, and he's like, man, you look like shit. And I had lost £40 in the hospital. I was looking pretty skeletal. And I was kind of freaking out at every little bump and everything. And he started to cry, and he's like, I can't believe. It was really, like, five guys, three knives. And I was like, yeah, but, you know, when I was in college, I was at Notre Dame. I was on the boxing team. So I knocked one guy out, and they arrested him, and he gave up the names of all the other guys who ran away. So there were five guys in jail because I got one and knocked him out. And my brother's like, dude, all right, all right, that's cool. But he couldn't believe that that would be a test of manhood, that three guys with knives would ambush an unarmed guy. And he's looking at me, and he's crying, and that was why he didn't see, as we came over the hill, that my sister had stopped on the road because there was a herd of antelope crossing. And I didn't have a seatbelt on because when we got in the car, I had so many stitches from the stab wounds and the surgery that the seatbelt hurt too much to put on. And he was looking at me. And we hit my sister's car at 60 miles an hour, and I hit my face on the dashboard, and I went through the windshield. And I came to about 40 yards down the highway, and I could just smell the burning rubber. And I looked, and I saw the headlights at crazy angles. We'd torn the back off of my sister's car. Both cars were in the ditch. There's broken glass everywhere and dissing radiators, and they're all screaming. And I think I'm dead again. But it hurts so much that I can't imagine that they have this kind of pain after you're dead. And I'm laying there, and they all come running over and they're screaming and looking down at me. And I look up and we're in the middle. We're an hour from anything. There's no phones, there's no lights, there's no houses. I really had wanted to get out into the woods. And we just stood there. Neither car can drive. And the next car that comes along is a pickup truck. And this guy pulls over. Of course, he sees everything that's gone on, calls his state troopers, the highway patrol shows up. Trooper gets out. He comes over, he wants everybody's id. We all give him our driver's license. And he goes, well, I'm not writing any tickets tonight. Y'all have the same last name. You sort this out when you get home, all right? We need to get this guy to the hospital. So they're loading me into the back of this pickup truck, and I'm in. I'm in just. I'm in bad pain. And as my sister and the pickup driver put me in, I hear the trooper saying to my brother, that GTO was a 66. My brother's like, yeah, it had a factory tri power carburetor on it. And I'm just like, wyoming, man. All right, can you get me to the hospital? So we drive into Cheyenne. It's an hour. We get to the hospital, and at that time of night, it's Cheyenne. Mainly all they deal with is car accidents. So they bring me in, and the nurse on duty goes, weren't wearing a seatbelt. Where are you? I'm like, all right. We get up on the thing. She starts to take my shirt off to check my vitals, and she sees stab wounds, surgery, scars, staples, hundreds of stitches. She goes, honey, what happened to you? Where did you come from? I'm just like, listen, just stitch up my face. I need to get out of here. All right? Let me get on my way. So I take the next plane back to New York City. I get here, and I've got my appointment with my surgeon that saved my life. I've got to go in and see him now. The last thing that he told me was, stay off your feet and don't take a shower, and I'll see you in two weeks. So I go in to see him, and he is pissed. It's like he's just restored an old English piece of furniture, and I've taken a hammer to it, and he starts looking at me, and he says, you know what? If you had had that seatbelt on, you would have ruptured everything inside of you from the impact, and you'd be dead. So you actually saved your own life. I'm like, whatever doesn't kill me just hurts me even more. It's fine. So the surgeon checks everything out. I'm fine. I've got two black eyes, a broken nose, stitches from my forehead to my brow, my nose, both lips are full of stitches, and I've got broken teeth. He just sends me on my way. And I go back to my apartment, and I'm having a hard time. I can't sleep. I've got competing nightmares. I've got. I'm being stabbed. I'm in a car crash. I'm in surgery. I just flew through the windshield. I can't eat. I can't go to the bathroom. I'm oozing pus and intermittent bloody noses. I just cry. I cry and cry. I'm wracked with sobs. I can't. I have no idea what my place on earth is anymore. Nothing is safe. And then I decided to check my phone messages, right? Because the machine is completely full. I've got 36 messages like.

Leah Tao (45:34)

Beep.

H (45:35)

This is Bob. I'm here with Ellen. We're waiting for you. You didn't come to the meeting. I can't understand. Ed, you know, I really thought this was important to you. I really. I have to say, I'm very annoyed.

Sherman O.T. Powell (45:44)

Beep.

H (45:45)

Ed, Bob, Ellen had to leave. All right? Now we're never going to work again. Okay? I don't understand. Next one. Ed, we've been waiting for the furniture to be delivered. I don't understand what happened.

Sherman O.T. Powell (45:55)

Beep.

H (45:56)

On and on and on. Every. And these people don't even know I've been stabbed. They're just. You know, there were business deals that just. They. They hadn't been notified. So I'm in a world of hurt, and I find out my van has been towed while I was in the hospital. And then the phone's ringing, and it's ADA Kennedy. And he wants me to come in and make a victim's impact statement so I can let the criminals know how this has impacted my life. And I don't want to do it. I tell him I don't have the energy. I don't. I'm not interested in it. I want to get on. I want to forget everything that's ever happened to Me, I just want to. I have a new chance at life, and I want to go on with it. I don't want to do this. And he tells me that he needs me to do it because it's going to help my case. His case, actually. And he says, what happens is, if you don't come in and make this statement, the criminals come in, and people feel sorry for them because These guys were 17, 18 years old, and they're going to see them in handcuffs and scared and little. And they're going to. They're going to feel sorry for them. He said, I want them to hear from the victim's point of view. So I felt like, okay, let me think about this. Okay, I agree. I'll do it. I'll do it for you. And then I think, you know what? I'm going to be in the courtroom when that guy comes in, and I'll just jump over the rail and strangle him. That'll be great. And then I realized, no, because then I'll be in jail, and they'll be four other guys that don't get strangled. So then I think to myself, all right, what I'm going to do is write down all of my anger and my hurt and express to this punk what he ruined and how he destroyed my business and my health and my sense in the world that you can walk down the street without something bad happening to you. And I really. It was very important to me to communicate that to him. And then as I played it in my mind, I imagined this kid in court sneering back at me like, hey, yeah, yuppie, you got a shitty life now. Well, I have always had a shitty life, and I'm gonna have a shitty life going forward. And welcome to your shitty life, because I don't care about your pain, and I'm not interested in hearing about how things are not working out for you. And I thought to myself, you know what? I don't want to miss the opportunity to communicate with this kid. My rant is one thing, but I'm going to actually get to look him in the eye. And this is a guy whose scars I'll carry for the rest of my life. And I want to communicate. I wanted to change the equation in his head however I could. So that's how I found myself in court with my cane. And the judge, they bring him in, he's in handcuffs. He doesn't even look old enough to buy cigarettes at the bodega. And the judge asked me if I can, you know, get up and Speak. And I get up and I look at him, and sure enough, I mean, I want to choke the shit out of him. But he. I feel sorry for him. I look at him. He's just a little guy. There's no, no family members on his side of the courtroom. And I look at him and I go, you know, you set out that night to kill somebody that you didn't know. And the sentence for murder, which is what you wanted to do, is 25 years to life in New York. Murder one. I said, but I didn't die. Thanks to the ambulance crew and the skill of a surgeon and my strength and an incredible amount of luck, I'm here. Which means you get to listen to me. And it also means that the maximum you can go to prison for is 15 years for attempted murder. But you set out to kill me. So your intention is What? I think 25 to life you should be prepared to deal with. And instead you're only going to deal with 15 years in prison maximum. And I looked at him and there were tears were coming down my eyes. And I was like, I was thinking, how am I going to say this? I said, you owe me one. You owe me a favor. Because on one day, you're going to walk out of prison 10 years early. And he starts to cry and his hands are cuffed behind his back and he starts to slam his face down on the table. And I figured it might have got to him. And then I said to him, you know, on the day you walk out of prison, I want you to remember that you have gotten another chance. You're getting 10 years handed to you just like I got another chance at my life. And I expect you to remember today and to make the best of that chance. And I will, too.

Leah Tao (50:42)

That was Ed Gavigan. It's been 15 years since all this happened. Ed now has a thriving furniture business and lives in New York City with his wife and daughter. That's it for this time on the moth radio hour. But if you're hungry for more moth, you can go to the moth.org to sign up for our free podcast. You can also find many more moth stories, including the ones you've heard this hour at the itunes store. Now, if you have a story, go to themoth.org and tell us about it by recording a one minute pitch right on our website. Or you can call our story pitch hotline at 877-799-MOTH. That's 877-799-6684. That's all for today. I hope you'll join us next time on the Moth.

Narrator (51:51)

Your host this hour was Leah Tao, the former executive and creative director of the Moth and now the producer of the podcast Strangers. Leah was also the director of the stories in this show along with Kathryn Burns. The rest of the Moth's directorial staff include Sarah Haberda, Sarah Austin, Janess, Jennifer Hickson and Meg Bowles. Production support from Jenna Weiss Berman and Brandon Echter. Moth stories are true as remembered and affirmed by the storytellers. Moth events are recorded by Argo Studios in New York City supervised by Paul Ruest. Our theme music is by the Drift. Other music in this hour from L1011, John Zorn and Three Leg Torso. The moth is produced for radio by me, Jay Allison at Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts, with help from Vicki Merrick. This hour was produced with funds from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, the National Endowment for the Arts, and the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation. Committed to building a more just, verdant and peaceful world, the Moth Radio Hour is presented by the public radio exchange PRs. For more about our podcast, for information on pitching your own story and everything else, go to our website themoth.org.

Dan Kennedy (53:11)

There you go. Three stories from the early days here at the Moth. Hope you enjoyed them and hope you enjoyed this week's podcast.

Sponsor Voice (53:20)

Dan Kennedy is author of the books Loser Goes First, Rock on An American Spirit. He's a regular host and performer with the Moth when he's not on Twitter.

Dan Kennedy (53:30)

Moth events are recorded by Argo Studios in New York City supervised by Paul Ruest. Podcast audio production by Whitney Jones. The Moth Podcast and the Radio Hour are presented by prx, the Public Radio Exchange, helping make public radio more public@prx.org thanks to all of you for listening. We hope you have a story worthy week.