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The Moth
The Moth Radio Hour: Oreo, Heaven, and America’s Most Wanted
00:53:25
Repodcast: A mother gets surprising news in the maternity ward, a man is addicted to cookies, an elderly woman gets a “ticket to heaven”, and a musician helps the FBI capture America’s Most Wanted. Hosted by The Moth’s Producing Director,
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- [00:00]
Sarah Austin Janess
As we approach the end of the year, I'm thinking about the next. Next year is the year I finally make my Spanish better than my 9 year old's. Rosetta Stone is the most trusted language learning program available on desktop or as an app, and it truly immerses you in the language that you want to learn. I can't wait to use Rosetta Stone and finally speak better than my 9 year old who's been learning Spanish in his own way. Rosetta Stone is the trusted expert for 30 years with millions of users and 25 languages offered speaking Spanish, French, Italian, German, Korean, I could go on fast language acquisition. Rosetta Stone immerses you in many ways. There are no English translations, so you can really learn to speak, listen and think in that language. Start the new year off with a resolution you can reach today. The Moth listeners can take advantage of this Rosetta Stones lifetime membership for 50% off, visit rosettastone.com moth that's 50% off. Unlimited access to 25 language courses for.
- [01:02]
Bill Burnett
The rest of your Life.
- [01:03]
Sarah Austin Janess
Redeem your 50% off@RosettaStone.com moth today.
- [01:08]
Bill Burnett
The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever.
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Josh Bond
It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever.
- [01:16]
Bill Burnett
Making it even more comfortable on your wrist whether you're running, swimming or sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes.
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Bethany Van Delft
The Apple Watch Series 10, available for.
- [01:29]
Bill Burnett
The first time in glossy jet black aluminum compared to previous generations. IPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary.
- [01:50]
Sarah Austin Janess
This is the Moth Radio Hour from prx. I'm Sarah Austin. Janess from the Moth Hi, I'm glad you're listening. Here's a little background on our show. People tell true personal stories at the Moth in front of strangers in theaters all over the world. We pick our favorites to share each week with you. Most of our shows don't have themes per se, and that's especially true for this one. It has four very different stories. We'll hear about an Oreo cookie addict, a daughter who prints her mom, an actual ticket to heaven, a musician who helps the FBI capture America's most wanted, and our first story, which comes from comedian Bethany Van Delft. This is the first time Bethany ever told her story publicly. It was recorded live at the Moth in Boston, Massachusetts, where we partnered with public radio station wbur. Here's Bethany Van Delft.
- [02:49]
Bethany Van Delft
I had a perfect pregnancy. I saw a specialist every week, though, because I was an elderly prima gravida, which is A sweet way of saying they felt I was too old to be carrying my first child. I saw a maternal and fetal specialist every week. I got an ultrasound. And every week the doctor and nurses would gather around the ultrasound and look at the baby and say, what a perfect baby. This is a miracle at your age. I spent nine months wondering what this was going to be like. What was it going to be like to give birth? What was it going to be like to see this person I had been growing all this time, especially what was that rush of love that new mothers talk about? What was that going to be like? And of course, being a stand up comedian, I relished the new market that motherhood was going to thrust me into. But most of all, the thought of leaving the house one day as us and coming home as a family just filled me with wonder. When the time came, they told us to prepare for a very long labor, but no, I pushed for 20 minutes. And Lucia Esperanza was born at 10:59pm that evening on 1110 11, not 11, 11 11. The birthday that we hoped for, the perfect birthday, just to let us know that she would do things when she wanted to. So they put her on my chest and I soaked in this little person I'd been carrying around. I saw her little chin and her heart shaped mouth, her buttoned nose and her folded ears. And I saw her almond eyes and my heart stopped. And I asked Jamie, does she look like she has down syndrome? And Jamie said, no. And I didn't feel a rush of love. I felt a wave of fear and anxiety. They brought us to our recovery room and they took the baby to do some routine tests. And Jamie went downstairs to get everyone. And it felt like I was alone for hours. And my worry turned to fear and my fear turned to panic. And I finally rang for the nurse. Hysterical. I was like, why is it taking so long? Is there something wrong? What is wrong with my baby? Can I have her back? Can you bring her back to me? She brought back the baby. And I called Jamie, sobbing. And I asked him to please keep everybody away just for a few more minutes while the nurse helped me calm down. And then everyone came in. Fifteen people came in to meet her. And they said, how are you feeling? And I said, wonderful. But I was pleased, terrified. Next day, the pediatrician came in our room and he said, congratulations, your baby is perfect. It was such a relief. I could breathe again. He said her Apgar score was great and her hearing was fine and she had 10 fingers and 10 toes. And he suspected that she had down syndrome. And he gave us a packet with a number on a post it note on top for us to call. And as he was leaving, he said, you know, now is the time to have these babies. What was all the research? I mean, some of them even read now. We spent our days in the hospital in the room with the door closed and the shades pulled. And at night, Jamie got in a single bed with me behind me, and he held me really tight. I think he held me so tight so I wouldn't fall out of the bed from crying so hard. It was confirmed she had trisomy 21, which is three copies of her 21st chromosome instead of two. And that first few weeks is just a blur of tears and forms and doctor's appointments and lists I made of all the things that were never going to happen now and all the things that she would never do. I slept on a couch with her for months with her skin on my skin, so she could feel loved. But every time I looked at her, all I thought is, where is my baby? Whose baby is this? When did I get to see my baby? Sorry. Jamie went back to work, and I was a wreck. I begged him to please let me change her name. Esperanza was my grandmother's name, and Lucia was just a cute reason to call her Lulu. But I didn't call her Lucia. I didn't call her Lulu. I didn't call her anything because she wasn't my baby. It made him so, so sad. But he said, just give it some time. She's our Lulu. Just give it some time. But I was a wreck. I was pining all the time for the little family that I thought we'd have, that I dreamed of, for the home that I thought we'd have. And I hated the place we live now, filled with all the baby shower gifts and the strollers and the bassinets and all the stuffed animals, the things that used to make me daydream and smile but now just wrenched my gut. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know how to go on. But I went on. I felt guilty when I looked at the shower presence. I felt like somehow we had deceived our friends and family and that I should return all the gifts and apologize to every. I felt deeply, deeply ashamed that I wanted a baby at my age. The prescreenings showed no signs of down syndrome. None of the ultrasounds showed any sign of down syndrome, and the tests come with a risk of miscarriage. And I already had two miscarriages. After the age of 40, I was terrified to have another miscarriage and maybe never have a baby. So Jamie and I told each other that no matter what, this was our baby and we were going to have her and it would be fine. But now I knew that, for me at least, that was not true. I lay in bed at night with my stomach in knots and the broken record playing in my head. I cannot do this. I am not supposed to be this kind of mother. I am not cut out to be this kind of mother. But I knew that no matter whose baby we had, she had to be cared for. She had to be raised. It wasn't her fault I felt the way I did. She didn't deserve to suffer for it. And robot Bethany kicked in. I went to every conference, every workshop, every lecture about down syndrome. I read so many books. And I would go with an armful of my books filled with neon tabs to every specialist appointment, and I'd ask 100 questions. I got every service I could get from early intervention. At three months old, she had a massage therapist. She's fancier than me. At night, I'd watch YouTube videos of children with down syndrome reciting the Alphabet or playing guitar or driving a car until I fell asleep. I learned what sorts of activities could benefit children with down syndrome. And I took her to everything. I took her to music classes. I took her to swim classes. I took her to the museum to playgroups. I joined a mom group. As a rule, I never talked about down syndrome, just the things that new moms talk about. But one time, I was feeling bold, and I started to talk about the particular concerns that my family had. And one mom said to me, but don't you want her to be with her own kind? I thought of Jim Crow. And I thought, how separate is never equal and only equal is equal. And I told that mom, she's a child. This is her own kind. But I learned to never talk about what I was feeling again. I never talked about how scared and lonely I was. I never talked about how I ached. I never talked about how much I hated down syndrome. I never talked about how ashamed I felt about that. At the time, I was still performing. When I was pregnant, there was a burgeoning market for mom comedy. So I just kept writing about new mom things, never about what my personal challenges were. And I landed an audition for a mom comedy in Los Angeles that went. The audition was fine. As I was walking out, I heard the other mom comics having a conversation. One said, I mean, you know, my kid's a little retarded, right? And they all laughed. And she said, I mean, you've seen her, right? You have to admit she's a little bit downsy. My heart broke into a million pieces. But I didn't put them in their place. I made an excuse. I said, sometimes comedians say really nasty things. Like that time a comedian said to me, aren't you too old to be pregnant? Isn't your baby going to be retarded? Back at home, my loneliness consumed me, and it turned to anger. At family members who lived a mile away from me but were never around. At friends who disappeared. At friends who were there but acted as if everything was fine. I was angry at anyone who had a typical child or a typical baby or anybody who was pregnant and joyful. I was completely hopeless. Doing the right thing for the baby was my only motivation. And I went from activity to activity like a zombie. I felt that I couldn't be the mother that she needed me to be and be a good wife to Jamie. And I told him that I wished I could move out, but really I wished I would just die. Then some friends invited us to vacation with them in Key west with friends of theirs. It was all couples with no children. I was very worried about being the one to bring the kid to the party, especially our child. I didn't know what they'd heard about her. I didn't know what they would think of her. I had no idea what to expect. I walked in the door and they had a gift for her. They had a little book about vacations. They all tried to play with her, but she's a little shy. She's afraid of strangers. So she cried. When night came, we put her to bed and the Jameson came out. And we started telling stories about ourselves and laughing and talking. And it gravitated to one woman in particular, for some reason. And over the course of seven days, I told her everything. I told her how I was afraid that I wasn't doing enough for her and that I would never be able to do enough for her. And I was afraid that we could never travel again and that she wouldn't love the beach the way I love the beach. And I was afraid that she would never appreciate the things that we do do for her. And how ashamed I was about that feeling. She didn't judge me. She didn't say, well, at least, or it could be worse. She just listened. And she did point out that actually we had traveled. We were in Key west, and that it was on the beach and Lulu was Loving the beach. And she said that things were going to be however they were going to be because of us and in spite of us. And that was such a relief to hear her say. She lifted a weight off my soul. And on the last day, Lulu played with everyone. She threw her beach ball, and they'd catch it, and everyone would cheer. They said this was the best day of the vacation. And I'd watched them get to know Lulu, and I got to see her through their eyes. She was hilarious, she was fun. She's warm, she's smart. And she. She definitely did things when she wanted to. She was our Lulu, our light and our hope. And when I returned home, I didn't see anymore the faces of the people who weren't there. I saw the faces of the people who were there and who wanted to be there. And when we got to talking, it turns out that none of us knew what to say or how to say it. But now they listened. And now they said that they loved our perfect little family. And they thanked us for showing them the way by just treating her as a child, because that's what she is. And once I stopped fearing being this kind of mom, I realized that all moms cry a lot. All moms doubt their ability to raise this child. All moms worry about the future. I used to wish I could go back in time and get that test after all. But now I wish I could go back in time and allow myself to feel the joy that our new mother feels. Because that's what I was. Thank you. Thank you. It's a lot easier to talk about this stuff now. Now, if somebody asked me if I was shocked when she was born, I say, of course I was shocked. I never expected a daughter of mine to have straight blonde hair. I definitely thought she'd be rocking the Afro Puffs. We still go to our music classes, and we still go to our playgroups and the museums, all with typical kids, but not so that people might see her that way. We go to our special places just for kids with down syndrome. And after our long days filled with fun, we come back to the apartment. And when I put my key in the door, Lulu always says, home, Mama. And I say, yes, Lulu, we are home. Thank you.
- [17:05]
Sarah Austin Janess
That was Bethany Van Delft. Bethany called us and pitched this story shortly after Lulu was born. But we asked her to wait and revisit it after a year had passed so she had some distance when she finally told the story this night in Boston, she received a standing ovation. And as she left the Theater. The audience made a little horseshoe around her and applauded again. Bethany has since told the story with us all over the country. She's always rushed afterwards with people wanting to ask her all sorts of. In fact, I wanted to ask her some questions about this whole experience. I noticed that you're always almost bum rushed by all these people at the end when you step off stage, it's like a flood of people come up to you and want to talk. What kinds of questions do they have and what do they say mostly?
- [17:52]
Bethany Van Delft
Or I think I could say always, it has to do with a loved one of theirs and a shared experience. One particular show, I tried to dash away before the rush of people came and I made it through the doors just in time. But as I passed through the doors, someone caught my elbow and I turned around and he said, I'm sorry to, you know, to stop you this way, but I just want to tell you my daughter is expecting twins and one of the twins has down syndrome. And we like paused for a moment and just kind of looked at each other and it was him and his wife and both got teary eyed and I said to him, it'll be okay. You don't know this right now, but everything is going to be okay. Which that's the first time I've ever said that. When people said that to me in the beginning of our journey, I would get kind of almost angry that you don't know that everything's going to be okay. So that was the first time I'd ever said it to someone and that was such an incredibly powerful moment.
- [18:55]
Sarah Austin Janess
So tell us about Lulu now. How is Lulu now?
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Bethany Van Delft
She's awesome. She's in school. She's three and a half. She's in K0 at a full inclusion school. She's thriving and she's having a great time. And she says her ABCs and she can count to 20 and she absolutely still loves music. And she sings songs now we sing to her at night, you are my sunshine to fall asleep. And now she sings that to us. If we yawn or something, she'll come, bring a blanket and say, lay down, lay down, close your eyes. And she'll sing you are my sunshine to us.
- [19:38]
Sarah Austin Janess
To see a picture of Lulu and for other great stuff related to many of the stories you hear on the Moth Radio Hour, go to our website, themoth.org Coming up next, two stories from our open mic slam series, a story of vices in Seattle and deception in Ann Arbor. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts and presented by prx. The Moth is supported by Audible. Audible is the Internet's leading provider of spoken word entertainment, information and educational programming. Content from Audible is downloaded and played back on your smartphone, portable device or your PC. The Moth listeners might enjoy Slouching Towards Bethlehem by Joan Didion. Narrated by Diane Keaton. Audible has the best audiobook performances, the largest library, and the most exclusive content. You'll feel something when you listen. Receive a 30 day trial and a free audible book at audible.comthemoth all one word. That's audible.comthemoth this is the Moth Radio Hour from PRX. I'm Sarah Austin Janess. Some of you listeners may know about our open mic storytelling competitions in over 20 cities around the United States and in Ireland, England and Australia. Anyone can join us and throw their name in the hat and we love to feature these unrehearsed stories here on our Radio Hour. The first story by Bill Burnett was told on stage in Seattle at a slam with the theme vices. Thanks to public radio station KUOW for partnering with us in the series. Here's Bill with his Moth Slam story.
- [21:38]
Brita Miller
So I have, I was addicted to hard drugs for over a decade and I got clean 2008. So I have over five years clean. And I lost. That's all right. I lost over £110. I've kept it off now for over a year. I quit cigarettes and then I quit E cigarettes. But I'm not going to talk about any of those vices tonight. I'm going to talk about something that I have not been able to defeat. And I tried again a couple months ago. I'm talking about buying a really big bag of cookies, like a triple row bag of Oreos and taking it home and not going through it really fast. Like, you know, I know some of you are like, well, what's the big deal? You just, you get the Oreos, you get cookies, you take them home. You have one or two every week or so and it lasts about a year. And I just want to say to you people here, and I mean this with love and respect, fuck you. So I'm at the grocery store and I go to get some M and Ms. Because that's part of, that was part of my weight loss thing is they're like low in calories and they satisfy you. I'm actually writing a book called My M and M Diet. So I go for the mms. But I know that at this QFC across from the M and Ms. Is the cookies and So I plan a hit and run because I don't want to spend too much time around the cookies because the longer I spend there, you know, the more clouded my judgment gets. And so I go for the M&Ms. And then I start to think, hey, you know, maybe they have like a little six cookie pack or just a little short stack of cookies in a box and they've never ever had them before. So it's like total addict thinking, right? It's like my brain trying to trick me into looking at the cookies. And so I'm looking at the cookies and I walk and I'm starting to think, hey, you know, I've been clean now for over five years. I've lost this weight and I've kept it off. Maybe I could just, I could get the Oreos and take them home and not go through them real quick. And then I look and I see they're on sale. So I'm in, right? My endorphins are like, yes, we're getting Oreos. And then I remember they have all these different kinds now, and I don't know what to get. Like the mint cream Oreos look pretty good. And then I kind of start to panic. Like, literally my mind and heart kind of racing because I can't figure out what to get. You know, what if I get mint cream? And I would have liked regular better. That already happened once with birthday cake flavored Oreos. So I'm freaking out in my head. I'm kind of shuffling around and then I start to worry that people are looking at me, looking at the cookies for too long. So I step across the aisle to the spices, you know, and I'm like, oh, yes, spices. I use these. I'm like reading labels, furrowing my brow so it doesn't look like I'm just pretending to look at spices to buy time to make a cookie decision. So finally I decide to get the regular Oreos. I get them, I go home, I put them in the back of the car so I don't touch them. I get home, you know, I rip it open and I usually I just eat the fillings. It's fewer calories, but I eat a whole Oreo and then I grab a few and I go and watch tv. And then a little while later, I just have a few more. And then I think, okay, that's it. I haven't had that many Oreos, right? Just like maybe half a stack or something and I could put the rest away and this will be fine. So I go to put them away. And I look at the Oreos, and they're, like, more than half gone. Like, there's just one stack and a third, like, more than half the cookies are gone. And it hit me, and I'm like, holy crap. I blacked out eating Oreos. I'm a blackout cookie eater. So, you know, I threw the rest away. And I put. I put, like, literally put soap on them because if I don't wreck them, they will call to me from the trash can. Bill, it's the Oreos you threw away five minutes ago. What you thinking about? So, you know, I did what you do after a relapse, kind of just like assess the damage, plan to do better next time and move on. And I thought about it. All the things that go wrong in the world, how hard life is for so many people, how hard it used to be for me. That's a pretty good day if my big problem was eating too many cookies. So I got filled up with gratitude. I don't walk around in a state of gratitude, but for that one brief little moment of pure thankfulness. My palate was still craving Oreos, but my heart was fully sated.
- [27:27]
Sarah Austin Janess
Bill Burnett lives in Seattle and works in technology. I asked him if he had fallen off the Oreo wagon, and he said there was an incident a couple of months ago with a big bag of mega Stuffed Oreos that he regrets. But he's back on the M and M diet now and doing. Next up, a story from Brita Miller. She told the story at a moth slam in Ann Arbor where we partner with Michigan Radio. It was her very first time on stage, and this is her unique take on the theme of that night, Deception.
- [28:06]
Bill Burnett
Thank you very much. So for eight years, I lived in the caregiver sandwich. Anybody here ever heard the term the sandwich generation? You know what that is? That means for those of you who don't, and trust me, you may someday know this, those are people who are caring for elderly, frail relatives. Your mom or your dad, and you're taking care of your kids at the same time. And you are caught in the middle of the sandwich. So for eight years, I did this. And when my mom was reaching the end of her life, she had some moments of dementia. She didn't suffer from Alzheimer's, but she was suffering from congestive heart failure. And she was a spunky, lovely little Irish lady. She was a world traveler. When she was in her 60s, she traveled on her own to visit her brother in South Africa. She loved to travel. Now, one of the things I learned from the hospice workers who'd been helping me care for my mom. At the end, at the last six months of her life, I did an awful lot of reading about active dying. I never heard of that term. So my mom was seated in her chair and she said to me, I'm going on a journey, I'm going on a journey. And I'd say, yeah, where? And she'd say, I don't know, I don't know, but I'm going somewhere. And I spoke to the hospice social workers and they told me, oh, that's very common. Many people who are dying feel they're going on a journey. Yeah, but my mom was really specific. She says, I want you to bring my suitcase up from the basement now. I said, okay. So I went down to the basement and I brought up her suitcase and she didn't fill it, but she felt better knowing that it was there. Well, the other thing is, in these moments of dementia, my name is Brita and I was her caregiver, but she often referred to the other Brita, the bad breeda. Brita would make her take medicine and not give her cups of coffee after midnight. And she would get really upset and she would tell me all about the bad Breeda, which I loved because I could get all the scoop. So one day she's seated in her chair and she's just really nervous and she says, I'm just really mad at that Brita. I keep asking her for the bus schedule to Dublin and she won't get it for me. And I said, mom, don't you worry about that bitch. I got you. I'm going to take care of you. And I said, you know, you know, mom, those bus schedules from Michigan to Dublin, they're not very reliable. Would you like to have another cup of tea? And I would try to divert her. Every day, every day she would ask this question. One day I could tell she was just really agitated and really upset. And she said, I just don't know what to do. And I said, mom, don't worry, I'm on it. I'm going to take care of you now. I didn't know what I was going to do. And I said, mom, I'm going to go to the computer and I'm going to fix this. I'm going to help you. So I left her chair and I went over to my computer at my desk and I thought him for a minute and I googled fake airline boarding ticket. And on the screen appeared the shell of a boarding pass. And I thought, well, alrighty, then. So it said departing airport dtw arriving airport Heaven. It took it. Travel dates open. It took it. It was first class, of course. And I noticed the shell said American Airlines. This was really important. My brother works for American Airlines and my mom is really proud. This was perfect. So I got some card stock. I slipped it into the printer, hit print. Within a minute, that sucker comes out of the printer. I cut it to size and I found a long, you know, a business size envelope. And I slipped the card into the envelope and I wrote Mary Kelly across the top. I folded it over, walked over to mom's chair and said, here, mom, you're good to go. Don't worry about it. So she took the envelope and she opened it up. She looked at it. She was a little confused. Then she got a twinkle in her eye and a big grin and she said, I'm going to show Father Will this one. And she did. And she took that boarding pass and she stuck it in her handbag, which was attached to her walker, which went with her everywhere. Three weeks later she passed away and her boarding pass to heaven was on her nightstand. And I have to say that act of deception was one of my proudest moments and one of the greatest kindnesses that I was ever thrilled to give to my mother.
- [33:45]
Sarah Austin Janess
That was Brita Miller. Brita says she's on a mission to help caregivers find a way to bring humor and grace into their very difficult role. She lives in Manchester, Michigan, a town so small that when Dairy Queen started serving chocolate ice cream, it was front page news. To see that actual ticket to heaven and a photo of Breeda and her mom. And for the dates of Moth story slam events near you, go to themoth.org after our break, your typical guy next door helps the FBI apprehend the most wanted man in America. The Moth is supported by Sacred Heart University's Film and Television Television Master's program, a one year hands on conservatory devoted to cinematic storytelling located in Stamford, Connecticut. Learn more at FTMA SacredHeart.edu the Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts and presented by prx.
- [34:47]
Bill Burnett
The Moth is supported in part by.
- [34:49]
Bethany Van Delft
Casper, a sleep brand that continues to revolutionize its line of products to create an exceptionally comfortable sleep experience with one night at a time. They offer affordable prices because Casper cuts out the middleman and sells directly to the consumer.
- [35:01]
Bill Burnett
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- [35:04]
Bethany Van Delft
Foams for a quality sleep surface with the right amounts of both sink and bounce.
- [35:08]
Josh Bond
You can be sure of your purchase.
- [35:09]
Sarah Austin Janess
With Casper's 100 night risk free sleep on it trial.
- [35:13]
Bethany Van Delft
Start sleeping ahead of the curve with Casper.
- [35:15]
Bill Burnett
Get $50 toward any mattress purchase by visiting Casper.comMoth and using promo code MOTH at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.
- [35:25]
Sarah Austin Janess
I'm Sarah Austin Dunness and you're listening to the Moth Radio Hour. People ask us, where do these storytellers come from? Well, a few in this hour came from our open mic story nights. Some pitch us directly through our website. But we found a short write up on our next storyteller in the Boston University alumni magazine and I gave him a call. Here's Josh Bond live at the Moth in Portsmouth, New Hampshire.
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Josh Bond
I managed a hotel and an apartment building in Santa Monica for about seven years. I lived in the apartment building and I had an office in a hotel across the street. Super easy commute. It's great. When you live in la, you meet a lot of interesting people when you manage an apartment building. For example, there was a retired couple who lived in the apartment next to mine, the Gasko's. And the first time I met the husband, I was in my apartment playing guitar and trying to write a song and there's a knock on the door and I opened to find a 70 year old man holding a black case. And he tells me that he heard me playing music and he liked it, which was good and he thought I could use this black Stetson cowboy hat. So really nice gesture. I thanked him and he said his name was Charlie. So fast forward four or five years and I'm taking a nap on my couch. I'd been working for like two weeks straight, no days off, on call every night. But this particular Wednesday I was taking off work early. I was going to see this band, My Morning Jacket in Hollywood. I was meeting a friend, all planned out. At 2pm the phone rang and my co worker is at the hotel with the FBI. So before I know it, I'm on the phone with an FBI agent and he says, I need to talk to you about a tenant in your apartment building. And I'm on my couch. So I say, can we do this tomorrow? And he says, no, where are you? Come here now. So I get to my office and I have a seat and there's a larger man with a Hawaiian shirt and jeans on. He closes the door, he throws a manila folder down on the desk. He opens it and points to a sheet of paper. Across the top is Wanted. You know, the familiar wanted. And underneath a photo of a man and a woman with names. And he says, do these people live in the Apartment next to mine. And at first glance, I know the woman is my neighbor, Carol Gaskill. The man, not as familiar. But after another look, I know these guys. These are my neighbors. And while I don't, I've never heard the name Kathryn Greig, the name James J. Whitey Bulger is very familiar. I had heard this name many times when I was in college at Boston University, but I didn't really know anything about him. He was more of a Jimmy Hoffa type guy to me. He's like, oh, this guy's missing. He's never going to be found. It was almost like a joke. So I'm standing there and just. The FBI agent says, what do you think? I said, what does my face tell you? And he says, I need percentages. I said, 99.5, 100%. So he gets on his radio, and while this is happening, almost like a movie after an explosion where the sound just disappears. And you're trying to process something that you really don't. You're not familiar with, you don't know what's going on, and you don't know what's about to happen. So, you know, this is an old man who bought me a bike light one time because he was worried about me riding my bike at night without one. And now I'm discovering he's a notorious fugitive. So another agent quickly appears, and he says, we need the keys to his apartment, and, you know, we'll bust this door down if you don't give it to us. I said, okay, you know, here are the keys. And he left. And then the other agent, Hawaiian Shark, kind of walks, walks up to me, and he says, look, you know, this guy's pretty high on the most wanted list. One, two, maybe, I don't know, we could use your help apprehending him. So my first response is, I just gave you the keys to his apartment and told you he lives there, so I'm not really sure what else I can do. And he says, well, you know, we can't just go to his apartment. You know, we need. We have to make sure he's in there. If it's just her, you know, it doesn't really work for us, so why don't you go knock on the door and see if he's there? In the previous months before this, you know, Carol had been telling people in the building like, charlie has dementia, he has heart problems, and they put notes on their door during the day. Don't knock on the door. And I knew from talking to him over the Years that he slept during the day. So I explained this to the agent and, you know, without skipping a beat, he moves on. And he says, what are you doing tonight? And I say, well, I'm going to a concert. He said, you might want to cancel those plans. And so I call my buddy and tell him, look, I don't think I'm gonna make the show tonight, and I can't tell you why. So as the shock, the original shock is dissipating, I realize I'm going to be with these guys until they have him in cuffs. So, you know, what do you need me to do? And then things kick in. You know, we place an agent in the hotel at a window that has a good view of the balcony, of the Gasco's balcony. And then the agent wants to go to my apartment. So I take him through a back alley and some side streets. So we aren't walking in front of the apartment building, you know, clear view of Charlie and Carol. And we're stopping at cars and he's talking on the radio and there's agents everywhere. And I'm starting to think this is. This is a pretty big deal. It must be. There's this many people, you know, staked out in the neighborhood and I'm hearing chatter over the radio, you know, they just. They just closed their blinds. Did you tip them off? I've been with you the whole time. No, of course not. And so we get to my apartment and I draw on the floor plan of the Gasco's place. And we're throwing ideas back and forth of how to get this guy out of his apartment. And he's talking on the radio and we're in my living room, and my living room wall shares a wall with Charlie's bedroom. So, yeah, I'm like, you know, this guy can hear everything we're saying. Like he's replayed conversations I had at night with my friends, you know, asking me why we don't curse or fight as much as he and his friends did in his younger days. So I take the agent, we walk back into my bedroom, and we come up with an idea. We're going to break into his storage locker in the garage. So we go down to the garage and we walk out into the back alley and he goes to get his car. Had some bolt cutters in there. And I'm just pumped up, like I'm involved in something. It's like a movie, you know, I'm having fun almost at this point. And I call my brother because I got to tell Somebody. And I said, man, do you know who Whitey Poulter is? And he goes, no. And I said. I said, well, you know, I'm with FBI right now, and I think we're about to arrest this guy. He's the old man who lives next to me. And I had to hang up because the FBI agent came around the corner, and I don't think I was supposed to be on the phone. So. So, you know, we get in there and he's like, all right, stand by the elevator and whistle if anybody appears. While I break into this storage unit. And I'm sitting there and I'm. And the adrenaline and the energy of the situation is kind of helping me to forget about my relationship to these people over the last four years. I mean, this is the same man who, you know, bought me a Christmas present every year for the four or five years I lived there. And once the lock was broken, we go back to my apartment, and he's telling me, okay, this is what's going to happen. We're going to go down. I'm going to go down. We're going to get everything set. I'm going to call you, you knock on his door, bring him down. And I'm like, no, I'm going to go to the hotel. I'm going to call him, I'm going to tell him to meet me there. Then you guys take care of your business. So I'm in my office and I'm thinking about this guy, my neighbor, who took care of an old woman on the first floor, and who, one year, when I didn't write a thank you note for a Christmas present, he gave me. Gave me a box of stationery. And I'm like, what did this guy do? And so I go to Wikipedia and I'm reading murders and extortion and gambling. And I get to the bottom. In one of his last public sightings with one of his mafia buddies, there's a quote from him, and he says, you know, when I go down, I'm going out guns place. So around this time, I start to rethink my involvement and the day's event. And conveniently, my phone rings and it's the FBI. And they said, make the call. So I start to kind of. Look, man, I don't know. I just read something about this guy that's not. I don't know about this. He said, no, no, no, he'll never know. He'll never know. Which was obviously not true, but I was that close to getting to my concert. So I said, all right, I'll make the call. So I called the Gascos from the hotel, and there was no answer. And I was so relieved, so happy that they didn't answer the phone. And I called the agent back and said, hey, man, sorry they didn't answer. Gonna have to do something else. He's like, are you sure you don't want to knock on the door? And I'm like, look, man, curtain's closed, guns blazing. What if he comes to the door with the gun? And he says, I'd just be like, hey, man, what's going on? I'm thinking to myself, he would shoot me before I finish that one statement. And I tell him I'm not going to do that, but. And while this is going on, Carol calls back. And so I get on the phone and I explained to her that the storage unit's been broken into. And I can either call the police or Charlie can meet me in the garage and we'll look at it. So she discusses with him, and she's like, he'll be down in five minutes. I say, all right, great. Hang up, call the FBI. He's on his way. Do your thing. And then I walk outside, I call my friend, and I say, look, man, think I'm gonna make the show? I'll explain everything to you when I get there. And I'm standing in the courtyard of the hotel, and Carol walks out on her balcony, which is directly across the street, and she looks at me, and then she quickly looks down to the garage, and then she looks back at me. I don't know if she knew, but she looked worried and she walked back in. And then I got a call from the FBI and they said, we got him. Go to your concert. So I go change clothes, and I'm, you know, to the adrenaline and the rush. And I'm walking back to the garage. And as I open the door, I mean, it's like a slow motion shot of Suburbans and vans and FBI agents everywhere. And my neighbor Charlie Gasco is standing there with cuffs, in cuffs, surrounded by agents, laughing and telling stories. You know, he almost looked relieved. And, you know, I'm kind of staring at this. And as I pass him a few feet away, I see Carol standing there in cuffs. And there's maybe one agent with her. And the magnitude of everything that had happened started to sink in a little bit. And she looked at me and she said, hi, Josh. And I couldn't speak. I just meekly waved and walked to my car and got on the highway and called my brother. And said, you'll never guess what happened to me today. And he said, what? And I said, I helped the FBI arrest the most wanted man in the country. So a couple months later, you know, my family's a little worried about me, and my friends are taking bets on how much longer I have to live. And I get home one day and there's a letter in the mail from the Plymouth Correctional Facility. And I open it later on that night, and I see the same familiar cursive writing and the same shoot the shit dialogue tone that I knew from four years living next to Charlie Gasko. But in this letter, he's reintroducing himself as Jim Bolger. And so I wrote him back and I said, look, you know, I had something to do with the day of the arrest. And, you know, my family's a little worried, so, you know, just a little note of everything's good would be nice. So he rode back and he said, you know, look, they had me with or without your help. No worries. So that made, you know, made my mom feel better, Definitely. Anyway, new neighbors eventually moved in, and, you know, they seem like nice people, but what do I know?
- [51:33]
Sarah Austin Janess
That was Josh Bond. Josh is still playing music with his band for the Kings. He and Whitey Bulger communicated for a while after his arrest, and this is what Josh had to say when he stepped off stage. Do you think that James Bulger will hear the story?
- [51:50]
Josh Bond
I have no idea. I'm sure someone around here who knows him will hear it. Possibly they'll let him know about it.
- [51:59]
Sarah Austin Janess
Do you have any feelings about that one way or the other?
- [52:02]
Bethany Van Delft
No.
- [52:02]
Josh Bond
I mean, he knows what happened that day, so, yeah, shouldn't be anything surprising.
- [52:11]
Sarah Austin Janess
And did you enjoy that concert that you got to.
- [52:14]
Josh Bond
I loved it. I love that band. I love My Morning Jacket. Yeah, it was great.
- [52:28]
Sarah Austin Janess
Okay, that's it for this episode of the Moth Radio Hour. We hope you'll join us next time. Your host this hour was Sarah Austin. Janess Sarah also directed the stories in the show. The rest of the Moss directorial staff includes Kathryn Burns, Sarah Haberman, Jennifer Hickson, and Meg Bowles. Princess Production support from Whitney Jones. Moth Stories are True is remembered and affirmed by the Storytellers. Moth events are recorded by Argo Studios in New York City, supervised by Paul Ruest. Our theme music is by the Drift. Other music in this hour from Norman Blake, the Waybacks, and My Morning Jacket. You can find links to all the music we use at our website. The Moth is produced for radio by me, Jay Allison with Vicki Merrick at Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts. This hour was produced with funds from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, the National Endowment for the Arts, and the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur foundation, committed to building a more just, verdant and peaceful world. The Moth Radio Hour is presented by prx. For more about our podcast, for information on pitching your own story and everything else, go to our website, themoth.org.