Annie Duke (3:21)

It's 2004, and I'm playing in a 2 million dollar winner take all poker tournament called the Tournament of Champions. And I have two tens, and I have to decide whether to put the last of my remaining chips into the pot and risk getting knocked out. And I've already taken 15 seconds with this decision, and it's just way too long. See, in poker, you make these very complex mathematical calculations, these very deep reads of your opponents, and you have to do it all very quickly because there's 10 people at this table and the action needs to keep moving along. So 15 seconds in poker is an eternity. But I'm having tremendous difficulty with this decision, and there's a few reasons why. The first is that $2 million is just by far the largest amount of money that I have ever played for in my life. And in fact, earlier in the year in 2004, I had won a World Series of Poker championship, a bracelet, and I had only won about 150,000. So $2 million just was putting a lot of pressure on me. But the second reason, and the more important reason for me was that this was the first time that I'd played on television with these new little lipstick cameras that they were putting in the rail of the table that could see your hole cards and expose them to the world. And this was causing me a lot of difficulty in thinking about this hand. You see, ESPN and Harrah's World Series of Poker had invited what they said was the 10 best players in the world to come together and play this winner take all, two million dollar championship against each other on television. And I was there among these nine great players, five of whom were hall of Famers. And the knock on me was that I was only there because I was a woman. That while I was good, I wasn't actually one of the best players in the world. And that I didn't deserve to be there because ESPN had just decided that since women were a novelty and poker, it would be really good to have a woman at the table. And in 2004, I was, in fact, the winningest woman in the history of the World Series at that time. So I was just the logical choice if they were going to put a woman there. But I actually didn't deserve to be there. And the problem for me was that I actually believed them. And so, for the first time, as I'm sitting here trying to decide whether to put my money in this pot with these two tens and risk getting knocked out, I realize that my mistakes might be exposed to the world, and I might prove all my critics right. And as 30 seconds have passed, I looked over at my brother, and my brother at that time and still actually was one of the best players in the world. And he, too, had been invited to this table to play this big tournament. And I looked over at him, and I just couldn't figure out how my life had gotten here. You see, about a decade before, when I was still in graduate school and living on a graduate student stipend, and I couldn't really afford to go on a vacation, my brother had offered to fly me out to Las Vegas while he was playing in the World Series of Poker and put me up at the Golden Nugget for two weeks, which is just, like the most luxurious place I'd ever been at the time. And he brought me out for this vacation. And we're sitting here after midnight in the basement coffee shop of Binion's Horseshoe Casino, kind of a rundown casino on Fremont street with its faux Western decor. And you might say, well, why were you there after midnight eating? And the reason is that after midnight, they actually had $1.99 steak special. So for $1.99, you got a steak and a salad and a vegetable and a roll. And this was really awesome for someone who was living on a graduate student stipend. So that's why we were there. And my brother was eating with me, and he asked me how my vacation was going. He actually asked me if I was having any fun. And I said to him, in fact, actually, I'm kind of bored. My brother was playing poker all day at the World Series because he, at that time, was already one of the best players in the world. And you couldn't really watch poker back then. There was a rail, and it was just hard to watch. So that wasn't any fun for me. And I really don't enjoy gambling, which I know sounds kind of. I know because I'm a poker player, it sounds kind of crazy. But actually, poker is very different than gambling. And I didn't enjoy things like baccarat or craps or anything like that. And actually, one night, my brother's Friends had kindly offered to sort of take on the burden of his sister entertainment. And taking me over to Glitter Gulch, which is the seediest strip club you've ever seen down on Fremont Street Casino. And somehow seeing naked women grind their breasts against my brother's friends was not only fun, but slightly uncomfortable and unnerving. So didn't really want to repeat that experience. So I just said to him, I kind of don't have anything to do. And he said, well, why aren't you playing poker? You've watched me play so much poker. I said, well, I don't really know if I know what to do, Howard. And he took one of those little black Kino crayons out of the well that you fill the cards out with. And he took his napkin from the table, and he wrote down all the two card starting hands I was allowed to enter the pot with. He said, as long as you just play these hands, I promise you, you'll do okay. And he handed me this napkin and $100, and he sent me across the street clutching this napkin to the Fremont Casino, which, if anybody's in there, makes binions look like the Taj Mahal. At that time, the nicest restaurant in the Fremont was a Carl's Jr. So I went in there and I played this dollar to three game, and I actually won $300. That trip was like a lot of money. And very soon after that, I kind of caught the poker bug, and I left graduate school to pursue a life as a professional poker player. And I just. I loved the life because it was so anonymous. And people would ask me, they'd say, well, what do you do for a living? And I'd say, well, I play poker for a living. And they'd say, oh, where do you deal? I'd say, no, no, I don't deal cards to people. I actually play. And they say, oh, what does your husband do? And I'd say, actually, he stays at home. I support the family. And usually the conversation would devolve into something about the merits of Gamblers Anonymous, which has a lot of merits, but I don't think for me. But I loved that. I loved that people didn't understand what I did and that I was eccentric because I valued eccentricity so much. And I loved that nobody was going to know who I was. And I was doing this in private on the margins of society, because at that time, nobody in poker could have imagined that ESPN would be airing this big thing that 3 million people might watch because we were just poked poker players. But the other thing that was so great about what I did was that I wasn't the only one who was anonymous. My cards were anonymous. So I was the only one who could see them because they were face down, which meant that when I made mistakes, I was the only one who saw them. And that was kind of good and bad, because as I started to find success, I was on my way at that point to being sort of the winningest woman in poker during the 90s. People started to say, she seems to be pretty good, she seems to have a lot of talent. And that felt really good for people to be saying those nice things about me. But all I saw while I was playing was my own mistakes. And so what went along with that was that I started to feel just a little bit like a fraud. In fact, I started to feel a lot like a fraud. So now here I AM with these two tens at this table, and 45 seconds has passed, and I'm so afraid that the world is going to now find out what I already know about myself, which is that I'm a fraud. And I'm trying to make this poker decision. And one of the other problems for me is that I'm against this guy named Greg Ramer. And Greg Ramer, I had opened the pot with these two tens and he had pushed all his chips in, and he has more than I do. So I'm trying to make this decision whether to risk all my chips against this guy. And. And I just really don't know anything about him because he's just come on the scene a few months before, nobody had ever heard of him, and all of a sudden he won the main event of the World Series of Poker in July of that year. So I've never actually played a hand of poker with him. And the only thing I really know about him is that his nickname is the Fossil Man. And the reason why he's called the Fossil man is because he plays with these fossils as his card protectors. He sticks them on top of his cards. And the thing I know is that if you manage to knock him out, which is completely impossible on this hand because I have fewer chips than he does, but if at some point during the tournament I could knock him out, I know that he'll give me one of these fossils, which, you know, in comparison to the two million dollar prize, not really what I'm trying to win, but I guess it would be something. So I really just have no idea how to figure out what he has. And the poker decision itself should actually be quite Easy. I've got two tens. And if he has a hand like aces or kings, I'm actually just supposed to fold because those are much better than my hand. And if he has a hand like an ace or a king, I'm supposed to call. But I'm having trouble focusing on the poker. And as 60 seconds has passed at this table, I hear somebody, myself, actually, as if it's someone else outside in my body apologizing to this table of these nine great players, these five hall of Famers, my brother saying, I'm so sorry, I know I'm taking too long, but this is just a really hard decision. And what I know is that the other people at the table think that the hard decision is the poker decision. But what I know is that the hard decision is that I'm so afraid of making a mistake, and I can't decide whether I'm just making a decision about trying not to lose so I can last with my little bit of chips and not be the first one out, so everybody will know that I really didn't deserve to be there. And as I'm trying to figure this out, I looked over at my brother, my mentor, trying to find some sort of solace, trying to find some sort of way out of what was going on in my head. And in that moment, I remembered that we had watched Ramer playing the main event on TV that week. They had actually just started airing it the week before we came in to play this. And we had seen Greg Ramer play a hand against a guy named Mike Matisot. And my brother had pointed out in a hand where Greg had a really good hand, that Greg did something. There was something he did called a tell, that telegraphed that his hand was really good. And as I was looking at my brother, I suddenly remembered this. And I looked back over at Ramer, and I saw him do that thing that my brother had pointed out when he had watched him on television. And I knew in that moment that he had to have a really good hand. He had to have those aces or kings, and that I could easily fold my tens because it was the right poker choice. And I did it confidently. But the problem was that this was the hand right before dinner, which meant that we were now going to have to get up from the table, all 10 of us, and we were going to have to go out and sort of take an hour, me with my little bit of chips left. And as we were walking out the door to go take our hour break, Phil Hellmuth, 12 time world champion Phil Hellmuth, the poker brat, 6, 5. Towering over me, reader of souls says to me, annie, I know you had to have jacks or tens on that hand. Don't you know? Raymer had to have ace, king. It was totally obvious to me and all the confidence that I had found in that hand just seconds before just went out of me. And I was left for an hour in my room at the Rio, ruminating, filled with self doubt that while I might have fooled myself into thinking I was making a good poker decision at the time, that clearly I had just made a decision to try not to lose so that I wouldn't prove anybody right. So I came back to the table after what seemed like an eternity and clearly with no focus, with no ability to really feel like I could be playing well. But the great thing in poker is that sometimes the cards save you from yourself. They save you from your own self doubt. You just get really good cards that really just aren't hard to play because you just kind of win every hand. And that's actually what happened to me. I came back and I had two queens against Johnny Chan's two eights and I won this really big pot and, and then I actually had a really big hand against Greg Ramer where I took a lot of his chips and I wasn't the first one out of the tournament or the second one out of the tournament or the third one out or even the fourth one out or the fifth one. And now all of a sudden we're five people left in the tournament and I get in this huge pot against Greg Ramer, the Fossil man, the person who had put me to such a difficult decision earlier and this time I have more chips than he does and we get all the money in and I actually knock Greg Ramer out and he picks up his fossil and he brings it around to me and as he hands me this fossil, my gift for knocking him out of the tournament, he whispers in my ear, annie, I know the hand you had earlier was really hard for you and I want you to know that I had two kings and you made a really good fold. So in that moment, Greg Ramer gave me not just the gift of the fossil, but the gift of my confidence back. And in that moment I realized that I could start playing to win again. And now we were four people left and I had the most chips and the next one out was Johnny Chan. And then actually it was just three handed, me, my brother and Phil Hellmuth and I got in a huge hand against my brother and Actually knocked my own brother out of the tournament. He's sitting right over there, and you might say, like, how could you do that? How could you knock your own brother out of the tournament? In fact, three weeks later, when the tournament aired, the minute after that hand aired on television, my mother called me up, said, annie, how could you knock your own brother out of this tournament? And I said, well, now I know who your favorite is. Would you have rather him knocked me out, Mom? But anyway, my brother was actually. He wasn't happy for himself, but he was happy for me because he taught me how to play, and he taught me how to play hard. And he would have expected me to play just as hard against him as anybody else. And I suppose if he was going to lose all of his chips, he probably was happy he lost them to me. And as he was getting up to go out of the room, he came around and gave me a big hug. He said, annie, you're really playing great now. Just beat Phil. So now it was heads up against Phil Hellmuth, the thief of my confidence. And I got in a big pot with him when I had more chips and I had King 10 and he had 10 8. And I won the hand, and I actually beat Phil to collect the two million dollar prize in the tournament to collect the two million dollar prize in the tournament that no one thought I even deserved to be at. And now when people ask me what the most important hand of poker I ever played in my life is, I don't say it was the king 10 that I beat Phil Hellmuth with to win that big prize. I say it was the two tens that I found such a difficult fold with. Because sometimes it's not the really big things that you do that get you the win. It's the really big things that you don't do. Thank you.

Sarah Austin Janess (18:59)

That was Annie duke. As of 2011, Annie had won over $4 million playing poker. She lives in Los Angeles with her four kids, and she runs poker tournaments raising money for charities including Refugees International, for the list of pairs her brother told her she could bid on. In case you want to try your hand at Texas Hold'em, go to themoth.org.

Annie Duke (19:26)

I play Texas Hold'em it's a full grown woman's game.

Flora Hogman (19:30)

I play Texas Hold'em.

Adam Faure (19:32)

It's a full.

Sarah Austin Janess (19:33)

In a moment, we'll be back with two shorter stories from our open mic story Slam series. Road Rage lands an art historian in jail, and a man tries to stay alive to see the birth of his great grandson. When I go all in I'm in.

Adam Faure (19:49)

Some tough breaks Jack of clubs he's.

Annie Duke (19:52)

Mighty mean the nine if who can.

Flora Hogman (19:54)

Stay his queen Jack's face tried and.

Annie Duke (19:57)

Mine I don't put pearls before swine when I play Texas sold him full.

Flora Hogman (20:02)

Grown woman's game There were different the.

Sarah Austin Janess (20:08)

Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts and presented by prx. We all take supplements, or at least we know we should. But why are so many supplement companies charging ridiculous prices for products that really aren't that special? It's frustrating and frankly, unacceptable. That's why I want to introduce you to LiveGood, a brand that's turning the supplement industry on its head. Livegood believes that everyone deserves access to high quality supplements without the insane markups. They offer premium products formulated by an industry leading team of natural health experts and they cut out the middleman to sell them at the lowest prices anywhere. I'm excited to try their organic coffee. I chose this because it includes fiber and mushrooms to ease stress, reduce caffeine and support my overall health. It'll be a game changer for me. They also have organic super greens, multivitamins, collagen, protein powder, creatine, detox, hormone products, skin care products. All highest quality products at prices people can actually afford. Ready to make the switch and start saving? We'll make it even easier for you. Use our link and you can save an additional 10% off your first order on top of the already lowest prices. Just go to livegood.com moth to take 10% on your first order. That's livegood.com moth don't miss out on this opportunity to invest in your health without overspending. This is a message from sponsor Intuit. TurboTax Taxes was waiting and wondering and worrying if you were going to get any money back and then waiting, wondering and worrying some more. Now Taxes is matching with a TurboTax expert who can do your taxes as soon as today. An expert who gives your taxes their undivided attention as they work on your return while you get real time updates on their progress so you can focus on your day. An expert who will find you every deduction possible and file every form, every investment, every Every everything with 100% accuracy. All so you can get the most money back guaranteed. No waiting, no wondering, no worries. Now this is Taxes. Get an Expert now on TurboTax.com only available with TurboTax Live full service real time updates only in iOS mobile app. See guarantee details@turbotax.com guarantees this is the Moth Radio Hour from PRX. I'm Sarah Austin. Janess. The next story is from Stacy Keen. She told it at a moth story slam in Pittsburgh. At moth story slams, people show up, names go in a hat. Ten tellers get picked and have five minutes to tell a story. Only one teller is declared a winner. We partner with local public radio stations all around the country to make these open mic story slam events happen. Thanks to WESA and WYEP for their support of our Pittsburgh series. Each story slam has a theme. The night we met Stacy Keane, the theme was love hurts.

Stacy Keen (23:30)

So my first true love was my grandpapa. And, you know, he really set the precedent for every other man I ever considered loving. He was clever, but really modest and brave, but quiet, you know. And so when I was an adult and I found out the great news that I was pregnant with my first child, the first person I wanted to tell was my grandpapa, except that he had just found out a week before that he had four weeks to live. And the phone call was the same as every other phone call. Hey, grandpapa, I got good news. And I told him. And his response was, well, poopsie, you go put your feet up and have a glass of milk. You give your old grandpapa a call tomorrow. And that started this beautiful tradition of every night calls to my grandfather while I was pregnant. And, you know, I'm very aware of the fact that he's defying the odds every night when I call him, and he's still there to take the call and hear about my condition and tell me about, you know, when my grandmama was pregnant with her kids or when my mom was little or, you know, the stories he laughed the most about were when he told me about me in my babyhood. And the responsibility of keeping that lifeline going was really heavy, but beautiful. I appreciated it. And about a week before my last month, he ended up going to the hospital. And I went into premature labor that night. And while I was giving birth in the room, literally the room below him at the Union town Hospital on June 29, 1997, he was holding on, and I was bringing my son into the world. And the next day, you know, I smuggled information with my sister up to him that night. It's a boy, and he's going to share your middle name. And, you know, she came down and said, oh, he really wants to see him. So the next morning, my mom came in and she had, like, a bag full of clothes. Clothes for the baby, some for me. I'm like, what are you doing? I don't go home till tomorrow. And she's like, get dressed.

Annie Duke (25:54)

Hurry up.

Stacy Keen (25:55)

So she's dressing Morgan in clothes and wrapping him in a blanket. And she's like, we're going upstairs. Come on. So she holds on to Morgan as if somehow, you know, she's not gonna get caught by the nurses. And I'm wearing, like, a sweatsuit that doesn't really fit. I'm all sweaty. Just had a baby. I can't hide this. So we're walking past the nurses station, and I know they know who I am. They know me intimately, you know, And I just look at them like, please don't say anything. And for some reason, they didn't. And my mom and my baby and my sister and me all snuck upstairs to see my grandpapa. And he held Morgan, and he whispered some things to him, and he told me he was proud of me. And, you know, he laughed until he peed himself because we smuggled my son up to see him. And he's like, I'm so glad you guys did a deviant act for your last act for me. So it was a funny and beautiful situation. Went back down to my room and apologized to the nurses, and they scolded me and cried at the same time. And so the next day, my grandfather and I were both discharged from the hospital. I was going home to start my new life with my new child, and he was going home to die. And after he passed away, I really missed those stories that we used to tell on the phone while I was pregnant. And the last story that I got to hear was from my mom. It was about him. And she called and said, hey, you know, I think grandpapa would want you to know this. Now, two days before he heard that you were pregnant, he had decided to go through with assisted suicide because he had been living with cancer for so long and been given four weeks to live and decided that he didn't want to suffer the last four weeks. And then you came to him and said, you know, grandpapa, I'm pregnant. And he was like, I'm going to stay for nine months. I'm going to do this. I'm going to stay alive and see my great grandchild and be there for my granddaughter. And his doctors thought he was ridiculously crazy, but he did, you know, and he died the day I brought my son home. And now I know that he loves me as much as I loved him.

Sarah Austin Janess (28:26)

That was Stacy Keene. After the story, Stacy said, if I could have one more conversation with my grandpapa, I would tell him that I see him in my son every day. Then I would tell him that I made it on the moth. And everything I know about storytelling I owe to him. For a photo of Stacy, her grandpapa, and her son all together, go to themoth.org Next up, Adam Faure. Adam told this story about his firecracker wife at a story slam in New York. Sometimes a hot temper can be pretty attractive. Here's Adam Fauer live at the mall.

Adam Faure (29:16)

Okay, so it's about four years ago. Four years ago, middle of November, I'm on the D train crossing over the Manhattan Bridge and my cell phone rings. So it's that time when you have like three minutes of coverage and I look down at my phone and it's my wife. And it was one of those days where like, I couldn't remember why we hated each other, but we definitely hated each other. And we had a six week old at home and a 19 month old at home. And for you kids out there, 19 months between kids is too close. So sleep was low, tensions were high. So I pick up the phone and I don't know if she's going to yell at me or what. And I was like, what? And she said, I think I'm about to be arrested. And I'm like, what did you do? And my wife is this great person and she's five two, she's an art historian, but she has this crazy temper. And I know she loves me. And she says, and I love you, and that means I only hate you 17% of the time. And her students literally wrote, in Columbia, if you have a choice of taking art and humanities from Dr. Or Genghis Khan, go with Genghis. So I'm like, really worried. I'm like, what did you do? What did you do? I only have three minutes. I'm about to go into the tunnel. So she's like. So I was going to my car. My car was parked. I see this truck coming around the corner and it takes off my side view mirror. And I was like. And she said. And I was trying to go to work because she had a terrible maternity policy and she had to teach like four more classes starting the next day before getting Christmas break off. So she's like. So I get into my car and I follow the driver and he goes back to this garage. And I'm like, what did you do? What did you do? And she's like, he gets out and he talks to this big Russian guy. And the Russian guy's like, I won't pay for your new mirror. But I'll replace it, and it'll be black. And she's like, no, I want you to go to my garage and pay for my mirror. And he's like, no, no, no. It'll be black. It'll be fine. We'll be even. And I'm like, what did you do? So then she says, so then this car comes, and it's this big Mercedes, and this woman gets out with all jewels and everything else like that. And she goes and kisses the guy on the cheek. And she says to the guy, and at this point, she had already called the police. She's like, I'm calling the police. So she calls the police, and then at this point, she says to the guy, is that your wife? And he says, yeah. And I'm like, what did you do, Meredith? What did you do? And she says, is that your car? And he said, yeah. So she walks over the car and with crazy hulk, like, postpartum strength, rips off the side view mirror and throws it on the ground and said, now we're even. And then the police come, and I'm like, ugh. So. And then I go into the tunnel, and I'm like. So I pop out of the tunnel, and I'm at West 4th street, and I'm like. And I call her back, and she's like, hold on. I'm talking to the police. And, like. So her phone, I think, is, like, down by her side, and I'm screaming like, pay for the mirror. Pay for the mirror. Pay for the mirror. And she can't hear me, and I hang up, and I try to call back, and she told me, like, what precinct she'd be at and when'd she get arrested. So. So I'm trying to call her back. It doesn't pick up. And I'm like. And I'm still from the night before, but I can't remember why. So I go to lunch with my friend. So. So I. So I. So I finished lunch, and then I'm like, all right. And I tried my wife again. I think I said, brian, I think I have to bail my wife out of jail. I'll talk to you later. So I pop out of the subway in Brooklyn at. And going to the precinct, and I go there, and she's there, but they won't let me see her. And I'm like, is she okay? And he's like, yeah. I was like, is she like, you know, she's Columbia art historian. Like, I was like, is she okay? And he was like, yeah, she's all Alone. I was like, is she crying? He's like, a little bit, but she's okay. So I'm like, all right. So long story short, I call my friend who's like, at the New York Post, because I'm like, I don't know anything. Criminal attorneys. So first she hooks up with this. She was like, so she makes a whole bunch of calls for me. And the cop had told me, if you don't get her out by 11 o'clock tonight, she has to stay the night in lockup in downtown Brooklyn. So I'm like, and the next day she has to teach class. And I'm like, this is bad. And I don't know who to call to tell them that my wife's in jail. So the first attorney my friend at the Post talks to, she only knows people involved in the news. So the first guy is like, it'll cost. He's the guy who got out the mob. The cops that were killing for the mob. It's gonna be $25,000 to get her out that night. Next guy is like a rapist attorney. 15,000 to get her out that night. I finally talked to her and she's like, call this guy Josh, used to be my boyfriend. He'll get me out. So. So, so. And I talked to Josh and he's like, okay, you gotta get her down to lockup. And she's breastfeeding our baby. So I have to go down to the police station. And you haven't lived until you've brought your wife a breast pump and seen her led by you by two female cops in handcuffs. And I'm like, hey, honey. She's like, hey. So I got the milk back and I got her out at like. I got her out at like 10:40 that night. And I'm like, honey, I got you out. I did all this stuff and I called her ex boyfriend and all these other lawyers. And then she looks at me and she's like, I could have done the time.

Sarah Austin Janess (35:48)

That was Adam Fallon. Adam is an Internet entrepreneur and sometimes novelist living in Brooklyn. His books have been translated into 18 languages. And he said for some reason he's incredibly popular in Turkey. After this break, our final story. A woman remembers a night during World War II when her mother handed her off to a stranger on a platform and saved her life. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts, Massachusetts, and presented by the Public Radio Exchange prx.org this is the Moth Radio Hour from PRX. I'm Sarah Austin Janess from the Moth. Our next and final story was told by Flora Hogman at a moth night called Stories of Fooling and Being Fooled. We found Flora through Facing History, an organization that combats racism and antisemitism through education programs worldwide. Flora was a hidden child during the Holocaust. And the first part of this story takes place in 1943, during World War II. Flora was born Jewish. She's an only child. At the start of the war, she and her mother were living in France, where her mother thought it was safe. Her memories of her mother are limited.

Flora Hogman (37:11)

We came to Nice, I think it was in 1939, and she started to work as a seamstress. I mean, she was a pianist and a writer. And so she had to make a living after the war. When we went back to the apartment, I found the box with all the threads, which was sort of moving.

Sarah Austin Janess (37:31)

I asked Flora if she remembered the day the Germans invaded Nice.

Flora Hogman (37:35)

I remember when they arrived. I mean, it was terrible. We're standing on the street for three hours. They were martling on the. You know, on the pavement with a huge black shiny boots. And it was pretty scary.

Sarah Austin Janess (37:48)

Soon after the Germans took Nice. Flora's mother brought her to an underground transport and handed her to a stranger who saved her life. That's where this story starts. Here's Flora Hagman, live at the mall.

Flora Hogman (38:06)

Well, we are changing times. This is a very different story. I'm sort of preparing you. It's 1943, Nice, France. It's in the middle of the war. The Germans have just invaded the town. I'm seven years old. I'm sitting and standing, more exactly, on the platform of a train with my mother. A very tall man with a long black robe approaches us and my mother gives me to him. I don't remember how we said goodbye, but I never saw her again. The tall man deposits me in some very strange place. I was in a room in front of me there were a bunch of iron bars. And a tall woman behind the bar was welcoming me in the house of God. She presented herself as Mother Superior and the others as sisters, which was all pretty strange to me. And they had these very long robes and hats like wings. I see myself in a small, well, orderly garden, sort of roaming around among a bunch of children, all somewhat ghosts like me. We don't talk to each other, but mostly I discovered the roof of the convent. It was a flat roof. And here the sisters were walking around and around and around all day with their long robes sweeping the floor, their hands up in the air, praying and their eyes Always looking at the sky, and they never looked down at me or at us. I, of course, wanted Miss the affection of my mother. I remember when they changed my name. Suddenly from Flora Hill I became Marie Amon. And I was born in Ajaccio in Corsica. Of course, I had no idea what either was or where either was, and actually didn't phase me somehow. It didn't register at that moment. And then suddenly one day, water was poured over my head and I was told I was a child of God. And then I learned the rosary. Now, the good thing about the rosary, that it finally provided a source of entertainment for all the children who were there roaming around. And we all learned the rosary and we decided who could do it faster. And I still know it today. I know it very well. Anyway, suddenly one night, the sisters, nuns, I guess you've guessed they were nuns, brought us all together. Very quickly we had to leave. They said, we have to leave very quickly. There was no time to explain anything. And they sort of threw us all in a covered truck. And one of them was inspecting my suitcase and find with horror, I mean, with a great shock, that my mother had embroidered my name on each of my clothing. And she said, oh, that's terrible. It's very dangerous. And she proceeded to rip off each strip of the threads from all of my clothing as I was looking in horror. And I started to scream, and they got very angry at me because it was very dangerous. And I was despondent. This was the work of love of my mother. This was my connection to her. And with this embroidery gone, how could anybody ever know my name? I had lost my name. I didn't know who I was. I was completely meaningless. Years passed. The war ended. I was adopted. I changed name again. I became Flora Ogman after having been Flora, I mean, excuse me, Mariama and Flora Hillel. And I grew up and the war somehow receded in the back of my mind, like on another planet. My mother also became like a very thin ghost, which, with each name change, became further away from my awareness. I didn't even think about the idea of having a father because he had died when I was 2 years old of TB and I didn't suddenly remember him. And it was such a long time ago. In 1958, I was in Nice. At that time I was working at Scandinavian Airlines. One morning, a young man comes in and asks, is Flora there? So I said, yes, that's me. So he says, so and so. And I look at him. Of course, I had no idea who. Who he was. And I repeated his name, and I still looked at him, and he thought I didn't want to speak with him. He almost left. And suddenly I finally realized, deciphering through his thick American accent, this was my blood cousin from my mother's side who had come from America. I almost fainted. I frankly didn't know what it meant to have a cousin, but it was a source of pride, and I could boast about it. I mean, a cousin from America. How many people had that? And I. What was that? I'm sorry. In any case, I asked him, I said, how did you find me? Apparently his mother, who knew that after the war, had been adopted and I was in south of France and had been absolutely no connection. This is another story which I can't get into today. When her son finally wanted to go back to Vienna to visit where he came from, she said, go and find Flora in southern France. I'll go and find Flora in southern France. Anyway, so he was walking. There are things that are meant to be. And that's the story I'm telling you now. He was walking on the Boulevard L'Opera in Paris, and he saw a store that said the House of Nice in Paris. So just for the fun of it, he walked in, asked the girl at the counter, do you know Flora Hogman? And she said, oh, yes, she's one of my best friends. And that's how I came to America. Anyway, so this really amazing encounter did lead me to come to America, where I started a new life. And it also led me many years later, when actually I was in my late 30s, to find my uncle on my mother's side in Israel. We met at the lodge airport. My uncle recognized me from a childhood photograph, and I from his large smile. Aunt Lily, his wife, came to me and embraced me in tears. They had prepared a wonderful meal for me in their tiny apartment. And of course, it didn't take very long before we start talking about my mother. Finally I could say, what was she like? And my uncle Ori says she was a brat. She was a, you know. And she, you know, she tried to teach me the piano. She was older than him, and she was such a pain in the neck. But she was a. She was a romantic, an artist, and she spent a lot of the time in Italy. And she said the reason she was able to do that is because she had two unmarried uncles. I mean, they were his uncles too, but who just, you know, with largesse, gave her money. He thought that was very critical of this. And then he goes on, said, I don't know how she managed through all these tragedies and to find a way to save you. And with great sorrow he is thinking and talking about my mother's death in Auschwitz. Then there was. Suddenly I remembered the letters. There were all these Czech letters that we had found in the apartment in Nice when we had gone there after the war with my adoptive parents. Of course I totally forgot about them, but I had always taken them with me everywhere I went. And suddenly here I could have them translated. So Uncle Uri transited the letter. And one of them is a poem to my father who had just died. And the poem reads, I've been given special permission to read it. How strange that you died just now in the middle of your life. We left together, the three of us, and now we are only two. How strange that you died so young and good, with Miri blood we plan to produce, to contrive, to snatch up you and I. How strange that you died and still are living in our sphere and love you so much and kiss you daily, your child and I. And what I forgot to tell you before, this is after my uncle told me all these stories. It's suddenly, you know, it's like my mother had become a real person. I had just remembered her, this very unhappy, stoic, wonderful ghost, very sad all the time. And here she was a real person. She was a brat. And after the poem it was even more. I mean, now suddenly I found myself. I was a person with a family, a father and a mother. Suddenly had found who I was, where I belonged, and also had found much more about my mother, who was a real person with a real life. Few years passed and then I continued my year searching to my past. And this time I decided to go back to the convent, which I believe you recall, I didn't have very positive feelings about. In fact, I hated them. And somehow I connected them to the death of my mother. But, you know, they had saved me. And so I decided to go back and say thank you. I walked in and of course Mother Superior was behind her grid. But as soon as she heard me this time, she opened the door and she said, flora, but I remember you. She said, you had such a beautiful name. She was a novice at the time and she was one of the ones who were walking around the roof. And she said, you know, we were not allowed to look at you, but we listened. And she said, we prayed for you all the time. It's amazing, it had never occurred to me. And she said, so few of you came back and she looked so sad. And so we both embraced each other. And for the first time, I felt that I could cry about my mother with her and at the same time to say thank you to her that she had helped save my life. Amen.

Sarah Austin Janess (51:12)

That was Flora Hogman. These memories are painful for her to revisit, but in the last few years, she's worked to piece her life together as best she can. She found out that the man her mother gave her to that night in France was Musa Abadie. He dressed as a priest, but actually he was a Jewish actor from Syria who had come to Nice to escape the Germans. He is credited with saving over 500 Jewish children during World War II. Flora was hidden in a total of five places during the war.

Flora Hogman (51:45)

In.

Sarah Austin Janess (51:46)

In her life, she's had four names.

Flora Hogman (51:48)

My first name was Flori Hillel or Flora Hillel. My second name was Marie Amau, and that was my war name. And I was supposed to be born in Corsica, which I've never been to yet. And I really don't know whether anybody called me Marie or not. But anyway, that was supposed to be my name. And then I became Flora Armand after the war, and afterwards I became Flora Ogman when I was adopted.

Sarah Austin Janess (52:18)

Do you feel more connected to one name or the other?

Flora Hogman (52:23)

Well, you know, in a certain way, I don't feel connected to any of the names, to be honest.

Sarah Austin Janess (52:32)

Flora summed it up by telling me I was first Jewish, then Catholic, and when I was adopted after the war, I was Buddhist and then Protestant. Now I'm an atheist and a clinical psychologist. After the war, when Flora went back to her mother's apartment in Nice, she found a photo of them together taken in 1942 in the French countryside. To see that photo and to hear the rest of my interview with flora, go to themoth.org while you're there, you can pitch us your own story. All of the stories you've heard this hour are available at the itunes store. Just search for the best of the Moth. That's it for the Moth radio hour. We hope you'll join us next time. And that's the story from the Moth. Your host this hour was Sarah Austin Janess. Sarah also directed directed the stories in the hour. The rest of the Moth directorial staff includes Katherine Burns, Sarah Haberman, Jennifer Hickson and Meg Bowles. Production support from Jenna Weiss Berman and Brandon Echter. Moth stories are true is remembered and affirmed by the storytellers. Moth events are recorded by Argo studios in New York City, supervised by Paul Ruest. Our theme music is by the Drift. Other music in this hour from Pokey, Lafayette, Annie Piper, Bill Frizzell, Tin Hat, and Nigel Kennedy. The Moth is produced for radio by me, Jay Allison at Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts, with help from Vicki Merrick. This hour was produced with funds from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, the National Endowment for the Arts, and the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur foundation, committed to building a more just, verdant and peaceful world. The Moth Radio Hour is presented by the public radio exchange. Prx.org for more about our podcast. For information on pitching your own story and everything else, go to our website, themoth.org.