Episode Overview

Title: Managing MS Symptoms with Diet and Lifestyle Changes with Vickie Hadge
Podcast: The MSing Link
Host: Dr. Gretchen Hawley, PT, DPT, MSCS
Guest: Vickie Hadge, MS advocate and creator of "Even So It Is Well"
Release Date: December 31, 2025
Episode Theme:
This episode explores how diet and lifestyle changes can dramatically improve the management of Multiple Sclerosis (MS) symptoms. Vickie Hadge shares her personal journey of nearly two decades with MS, discussing the evidence-based modifications she adopted and the four key pillars guiding her approach: Diet, Exercise, Sleep, and Kindness (the DESK method). The episode is filled with practical tips for starting lifestyle changes, managing dietary differences within families, and actionable stress reduction and sleep improvement strategies.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Vickie's MS Journey & Initial Wake-Up Call

• Background: First significant MS relapse in 2006 led to foot drop and hospitalization ([06:24]-[08:19])
• Initial Response:
  • Assumed she was living healthily but recognized needed improvement
  • Instituted a more nutritious diet and consistent yoga practice, leveraging neuroplasticity for recovery
  • “Over a period of about six months, my foot drop all but resolved. And so I was really aware of how making lifestyle changes could help.” – Vickie Hadge ([07:44])
• Long-term Outcome:
  • Ten years without a relapse after implementing changes
  • Official MS diagnosis arrived after a second relapse in 2016; began disease-modifying therapy (Copaxone)

The DESK Approach: Four Pillars of MS Wellness

1. Diet

• Whole Food Plant-Based Focus:
  • “For me, it means eating foods as close to their natural form as possible. So as little processing as possible.” ([17:07])
  • Rationale: Highly processed foods can be counterproductive; natural fiber and nutrients support gut health, which is crucial for MS management ([18:52])
• Practicality and Flexibility:
  • Not everyone needs to be 100% plant-based; start by increasing the proportion of unprocessed, plant-derived foods ([17:07]-[18:52])
  • Example meal formulation: Half plate non-starchy vegetables, quarter plate starchy veg, quarter plant-based protein ([22:05])
• Dealing with Family Members' Dietary Choices:
  • “I made a very healthy meal and then I would cook them a piece of chicken...The main part of the meal was all very healthy and then I would add a piece of meat-based protein for them.” ([21:20])
• On “Cheat Foods” and Balance:
  • “I try to live by being 90% good and 10%...I give myself grace…I like corn chips, I like french fries…but I try to keep it under 10% of my diet.” ([20:29])

2. Exercise

• Importance for Neuroplasticity:
  • “When I exercise daily…my body feels better, I am more limber, I’m stronger, I have better balance.” ([25:23])
• Purposeful Movement:
  • Structure daily routines around movement—can include walks, yoga, stretching ([25:23], [27:13])
  • Lighter, gentler activities are valid, especially on fatigue days
  • “When I’m having a high fatigue day…I will do maybe some yoga on those days or I’ll do a stretching routine…something purposeful but a little bit lighter.” ([27:13])

3. Sleep

• Sleep Quality and MS Symptom Management:
  • Restless legs and tightness disrupted sleep; improved sleep through muscle relaxers, bedtime routines, mindful breathing, and reducing bedroom light/screens ([28:05]-[29:51])
  • “Sleep is when our brains clean house…that’s where we rest and repair from the day.” ([14:14])
• Sleep Hygiene Tips:
  • No screens in bedroom, dim lights after dinner, regular mindful breathing ([28:17]-[29:51])

4. Kindness (Compassion & Mindfulness)

• Being Kind to Yourself & Others:
  • “Many times we are not compassionate with ourselves...Letting go of guilt, accepting help and being gracious about it is really important.” ([14:35], [31:40])
  • Stress reduction through daily mindfulness/meditation
  • Sharing coping advice for uncomfortable comments: “If someone tries to engage you in a conversation you don't want to be in...just say, ‘Huh.’” ([33:21])
• Role of Mindfulness in Stress Management:
  • “Every morning after my coffee, I do a guided meditation...just 20 minutes every day...that really helps with my stress reduction.” ([30:01])

Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• On Finding Simplicity in Healthy Eating:
  • “Don’t overcomplicate it...fill half your plate with non-starchy vegetables, a quarter with starchy vegetables, and a quarter with plant-based protein.” – Vickie ([22:05])
• On Allowing Grace & Flexibility:
  • “I try to live by being 90% good and 10%...I give myself grace.” – Vickie ([20:29])
• On Beginning New Wellness Practices:
  • “At the beginning I would keep lists handy...now it’s second nature. There’s so many wonderful people out there for inspiration.” ([23:04])
• On Dealing with Advice from Others:
  • “The thing that all these people have in common is they like me and they care about me...Once I came to that realization, I was able to say thank you.” ([32:28])
• On Making Changes Sustainable:
  • “Everything that you post seems so attainable and manageable, doable for anyone, while also being inspiring…” – Dr. Gretchen ([36:00])
• On Seasonal Changes and MS:
  • “I do. I have some heat intolerance, but I manage it well...I use a cooling vest, and a neck fan, sip ice cold water...I take steps to help mitigate the change in the temperatures.” – Vickie ([05:06])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Vickie’s MS Story, Early Lifestyle Shifts – [06:24]-[08:19]
• Adopting the DESK Approach – [13:49]-[15:02]
• Deep Dive: What a Whole Food Plant-Based Diet Looks Like – [17:07]-[18:52]
• Managing Diet with Family Members – [19:20]-[21:35]
• Exercise as a Non-Negotiable – [25:23]-[26:27]
• Gentle Movement Options and Handling Fatigue – [27:13]
• Sleep Hygiene and Evening Routines – [28:05]-[29:51]
• Mindfulness, Stress Reduction, and Compassion Practices – [30:01]-[34:12]
• Addressing MS Community Inquiries and Online Presence – [34:51]-[36:24]

Vickie Hadge’s Noted Resources & Platforms

• YouTube & Facebook: Even So It Is Well
• Research Tools Mentioned: PubMed, Consensus AI, Google Scholar ([15:54])
• Favorite MS Platform: Overcoming MS (recipes and resources, [23:04])

Final Thoughts

Vickie Hadge’s journey is a testament to how sustainable, evidence-based lifestyle changes—focused around Diet, Exercise, Sleep, and Kindness—can profoundly impact daily life with MS. Her advice is approachable and empowering, emphasizing self-compassion, research-driven decisions, and finding solutions that fit your reality—even when living with others who eat differently. Dr. Gretchen underscores Vickie’s gift for making these approaches feel truly accessible: “Everything that you post seems so attainable and manageable, doable for anyone, while also being inspiring and makes you feel like, oh, I can do that.” ([36:00])

For more of Vickie’s insights or to connect, check out her YouTube and Facebook pages, “Even So It Is Well.”