Church and State | 2

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Mystic and the Mayor – Episode 2: Church and State

Podcast: The Mystic and The Mayor
Episode: 2 – Church and State
Date: August 5, 2025
Host: Audio Always
Presenters: Anna Richardson and Leo Chic
Guests & Contributors: Justine Barrot (journalist), Louise Colcombe (journalist), Valerie Gouget (medium), Isa (former client)

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Main Theme and Purpose

This episode delves deep into the entanglement between political power and the supernatural in a small French coastal town. Host Anna Richardson and journalist Leo Chic track the surreal bond between Mayor Gilles d’Ettore and mystic Sophia Martinez—how a series of mysterious "calls from heaven," a lavish public ceremony, and personal vulnerability propelled their sleepy town into the headlines. The story teases out key questions: Was Gilles manipulated, bewitched, or simply a man grieving his father? Was Sophia exploiting a position of power, or providing genuine comfort and connection?

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Mystic and the Mayor: Phone Calls from Beyond

• Gilles d’Ettore’s Motivation: Since lockdown, Gilles had been trying to spiritually connect with his deceased father using Sophia’s services. He began to receive multiple daily calls from a withheld number—alleging to be his father, but referring to itself as "the Kension" (00:04-00:29).
• Quote:
  “The calls came from a withheld number. Several times a day, the voice gave Gilles messages from the beyond, saying they were from his father. In fact, he had begun to address the voice as Papa...” — Leo Chic (00:29)

2. Archangel Michael and the Breaking of Social Norms

• Religious Influence in a Secular State: Gilles attended a cathedral ceremony for a new statue of Archangel Michael. He sat apart from the public, beside the priest—breaking France’s strict 1905 law of church and state separation (02:32-04:10).
• Memorable Moment:
  “He was beyond the barriers, near the priest. And he was sitting in the throne or as a king. And that's something that really shocked me.” — Justine Barrot (03:50)
• Insight: Such visible piety by a public official shocked locals and raised suspicions about Gilles' motives.

Timestamps

• [02:32] – Ceremony for Archangel Michael statue, observed by journalist Justine Barrot
• [03:50] – Gilles’ throne-like seat next to the priest described

3. The Supernatural Becomes Political

• Mysterious Calls' New Focus: Initially centered on Gilles’ late father, calls began focusing on Sophia—suggesting Gilles owed Sophia favors or protection (05:32-05:48).
• Quote:
  “Sophia, she's a saint. I've been sent to make sure she's protected. You must protect Sophia.” — Paraphrased ‘Papa’ via Anna, discussing the phone calls (05:48)
• Anna’s Reaction:
  “You'd immediately think I'm being scammed.” — Anna Richardson (06:18)

4. The True Nature of Their Relationship

• No Romance—A Paternal Bond: Contrary to gossip, journalists discovered no evidence of romance or sex. Gilles saw Sophia as a daughter-like figure, and wanted to support her family (07:18-07:47).
• Quote:
  “He considered her as his daughter. He tried to convince people to help her in any way possible. ... He was very fond of her because she was able to make him talk to his dead father.” — Louise Colcombe (07:18)
• Anna’s Take:
  “This is a man who feels hugely protective of her and she becomes almost family.” — Anna Richardson (07:47)

5. The Allure and Danger of Mediums

• Psychic Addiction & Power Imbalance: Medium Valerie Gouget explains how desperate grief can create unhealthy dependencies and open paths for abuse.
• Quote:
  “It's this constant need to want to communicate with the person who is no longer with you ... creating an addiction.” — Valerie Gouget (09:14)

6. Paranormal Phenomena—Witness Accounts

• Gilles’ Experiences: Gilles reported witnessing objects move in Sophia’s presence, including a book flying across the room and a garage door opening seemingly on its own (10:42-10:55).
• Client Testimony:
  Former client Isa recounts seeing a painting move and Sophia giving her eerily accurate information (11:58-13:53).
• Isa’s Emotional Reaction:
  “I was so shocked. Shocked, but I mean, at the same time, I was so light... This has changed something.” — Isa (13:53-14:05)

7. The Wedding—and The Town’s Suspicion

• Sophia’s Lavish Wedding: Sophia’s wedding at a castle is extravagantly organized. Gilles, acting as a symbolic father, walks her down the aisle and gifts Cartier rings (14:05-15:58).
• Notable Quote:
  “When you walk a woman to the aisle, it means you accept to have the role of the father. I mean, in a symbolic way. It's huge.” — Louise Colcombe (14:46)
• Cost & Funding Mystery: The estimated cost of the wedding ranged from €30,000-€80,000, raising suspicions about funding.
• Quote:
  “Who paid for it?” — Anna Richardson (17:18) “That's a really, really good question.” — Leo Chic (17:32)
• Surreal Toast:
  At the wedding’s end, Sophia has all 200 guests toast "Papa" (the same name Gilles was told to use for the voice on the phone and for the Archangel Michael), highlighting the blurred lines between the supernatural and the political (17:44).
• Quote:
  “All 200 guests in unison chorus thank you, Papa. Which is what the Archangel Michael was asking Gilles to call him during the regular phone calls.” — Leo Chic (17:44)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• The Opening Hook:
  “A twisting tale of power, both political and supernatural...” — Leo Chic (00:54)
• Church and State Shock:
  “He was sitting in the throne or as a king. And that's something that really shocked me.” — Justine Barrot (03:50)
• Nature of Gilles & Sophia’s Relationship:
  “He considered her as his daughter... He was very fond of her because she was able to make him talk to his dead father.” — Louise Colcombe (07:18)
• On the Wedding’s Symbolism:
  “When you walk a woman to the aisle, it means you accept to have the role of the father. I mean, in a symbolic way. It's huge.” — Louise Colcombe (14:46)
• On the Mysterious Toast:
  “All 200 guests in unison chorus thank you, Papa.” — Leo Chic (17:44)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |----------------|------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:04–01:18 | Introduction: Gilles’ relationship with Sophia & ‘Papa’ calls | | 02:32–04:10 | Archangel Michael statue event, breaking church/state separation | | 05:32–06:23 | The supernatural calls begin to mention Sophia | | 07:18–08:27 | Gilles & Sophia’s relationship—rumor vs. reality | | 09:14–10:12 | Medium Valerie Gouget on dangers of psychic addiction | | 10:42–12:14 | Examples of paranormal events witnessed by Gilles & client Isa | | 14:05–15:58 | Sophia’s wedding, Gilles’ role, and community suspicions | | 17:44–18:03 | Wedding guests toast “Papa”—linking supernatural and real world |

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Flow and Tone

The episode maintains an investigative, deeply empathetic yet gently skeptical tone. Anna Richardson approaches Gilles’ vulnerability with warmth, while Leo Chic and other reporters keep the audience questioning what’s real and who benefits. The haunting, almost folkloric mystique of Sophia’s abilities is paired with sharp observations about human weakness, social boundaries, and abuses of trust.

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Conclusion

Episode 2 of The Mystic and the Mayor continues to draw listeners into the high-stakes drama of loss, belief, and power. Through reconstructed interviews, first-person witness accounts, and probing questions, Anna and Leo dissect how spiritual dependency can unravel personal and public boundaries, setting the stage for scandal. The final segment leaves us questioning the true motives of both Gilles and Sophia, teeing up a deeper dive into Sophia’s past in the upcoming episode.

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Next Time:
A focus on Sophia’s childhood and early psychic experiences, promising more revelations about how belief and manipulation are entangled from the very start.

Transcript

[Leo Chic]

In 2023, France, like the rest of the world, was returning to normal after the trauma of COVID 19. The mayor, Gilles de Tor, had been seeing the mystic Sophia Martinez since lockdown. As he wanted to connect with his deceased dad for almost as long, he was receiving calls.

[Anna Richardson]

Hello?

[Leo Chic]

The calls came from a withheld number. Several times a day, the voice gave Gilles messages from the beyond, saying they were from his father. In fact, he had begun to address the voice as Papa, although the voice introduced itself as the Kension.

[Anna Richardson]

Michael. I'm Anna Richardson.

[Leo Chic]

And I'm Leo Chic. And for the past year I've been investigating a twisting tale of power, both political and supernatural, and how, with a.

[Anna Richardson]

Little sprinkling of magic, a French town has been rocked by an investigation that exposes just how vulnerable any of us can be if the right buttons are pressed.

[Leo Chic]

This is the mystic and the mayor. Episode 2 the Archangel Michael is traditionally a defender of the church and opponent of Satan. And he's a big part of the religious landscape in agd. Some people have said he's the unofficial patron saint of the town. There's a 19th century prayer to St. Michael the Archangel that goes like St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray. And do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan and all of the other evil spirits who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen. In the historic centre lies the beautiful 12th century Cathedral Saint Etienne. It's an impressive fortified building of dark grey volcanic stone, with lockdown now over the town, gathered in the sacred place. The local TV journalist Justine Barrot was there.

[Justine Barrot]

I remember I was a little late that day, so when I arrived, everyone had already gone inside. There was no one outside. I had my tripod, my camera and a microphone with me in the bag. The church was quite full and that's what surprised surprised me. There were quite a lot of people who turned up to watch the unveiling of a statue.

[Leo Chic]

The statue was of the Archangel Michael. And notable in his attendance was Gilles, sitting on a large wooden chair with a high back and ornate arms.

[Justine Barrot]

It was like a religious ceremony, like a baptism.

[Anna Richardson]

Right. So Gilles has presided over this huge gathering in the cathedral where the town is unveiling a new statue. Statue of. Surprise, surprise, Archangel Michael. So my immediate question is, had Archangel Michael been saying to Gilles, mate, I need a new statue of me?

[Leo Chic]

Yeah, he is. And for Gilles he's only a phone call away.

[Anna Richardson]

So, I mean, I'm immediately thinking, was he then on the phone to Michael going, hey, you know, dude, did you like your statue? We had a whole thing going on. Are you into this?

[Leo Chic]

I really, really hope that that was a conversation.

[Anna Richardson]

I hope that was a conversation.

[Leo Chic]

When I spoke to Justine, she told me more.

[Justine Barrot]

If there is one thing I remember very well, the mayor was not seated in the public. He was beyond the barriers, near the priest. And he was sitting in the throne or as a king. And that's something that really shocked me.

[Leo Chic]

Because there's the law in France of the separation of the church and the state.

[Justine Barrot]

Yeah, it's like fundamental law in France. It's from 1905, and it's very strong law in France. The church and the state separated.

[Anna Richardson]

Okay. In France, it's not normal for government officials to be affiliated with a specific religion.

[Leo Chic]

There is a complete separation from state infrastructure, including elected, especially elected representatives and religionists in France. So to go beyond the barrier and sit next to the priest, for a lot of French people, you see that and you think, what is going on?

[Anna Richardson]

So that would be shocking. Then to see Gilles, to have gone and sat next to the priest would have been a real moment of what? What the hell?

[Leo Chic]

Exactly. It's a very surprising situation to be unfolding. Gilles sits in his throne like chair next to the priest. And in the front row sits Gilles, mystic Sophia. At this point, Gilles is still receiving calls from the Archangel Michael, but they've taken a turn.

[Anna Richardson]

Hello, Gilles, this is Papa.

[Leo Chic]

They weren't just about his father and the afterlife anymore. They started to be about Sofia. And the Archangel wanted Gilles to help Sofia and do favors for her.

[Anna Richardson]

Sophia, she's a saint. I've been sent to make sure she's protected. You must protect Sophia. I mean, I'll tell you what's really, I'm so into this story, it's unbelievable. But this is the point where you just want to laugh, don't you? And go, come on, Gilles, you know, clearly you've got some bloke that's ringing you claiming to be the Archangel, and then he mentions Sophia. You'd immediately think I'm being scammed.

[Leo Chic]

Well, yeah, you may think that, but there's an argument that Gilles was caring for her. Here's part of an interview Gilles gave to newspaper Le Monde. Voiced by an actor. Sophia was the mother of six children. One of them I knew was disabled. That's the kind of family I always tried to give a bit of extra.

[Anna Richardson]

Help to So I helped Sophia. Okay, so he wanted to protect Sophia. So he believes she's got these magical powers. He's getting these peculiar phone calls. This is making me think, were they sleeping with each other? Was there something going on with these guys?

[Leo Chic]

A lot of people that I spoke to have been asking that question. I asked a lot of people that question. And from what I understand, their relationship doesn't seem to be motivated by romance or sex, really. Here's Louise Colcombe, a journalist from Le Parisien, talking about it.

[Louise Colcombe]

Obviously, there's the friendship. And some people suspected that maybe they were in love, but actually, no, he considered her as his daughter. He tried to convince people to help her in any way possible. Everything got easier thanks to him. He was very fond of her because she was able to make him talk to his dead father. You cannot put a price on this.

[Anna Richardson]

Listening to that, I have a huge amount of sympathy for Gilles. I think I'm starting to understand it if I put myself into his shoes. So there was nothing sexual going on between them. This is a man who feels hugely protective of her and she becomes almost family. And I guess that if he's fully invested in her as a medium, that she's able to channel his father. I can sort of understand that. That he might feel like almost a paternal feeling towards Sofia. That you're part of my familial network, I need to keep you close. That he feels, you know, fully, fully invested in her, isn't he? And just wants to protect the special bond that they've got.

[Leo Chic]

He also sent relatives and friends to use her services. And like Louise said, he thought of her as his daugh and told people as much. But this relationship wasn't one sided because Sophia became more than a medium to him. She became his friend. Or at least they were part of each other's support network.

[Anna Richardson]

But it's just so open to abuse. I've spent years doing this and I have a friend who runs Psychic Lines. And she's talked about how people ring again and again and again and that they have to step in.

[Leo Chic]

I actually asked Valerie Gouget about this. She's the medium I met when I was in act, who you heard in the last episode.

[Valerie Gouget]

It's this constant need to want to communicate with the person who is no longer with you, with the deceased. So not being able to make decisions for yourself, but always having this need, creating an addiction, unlike in real life, when you may have been speaking to that loved one much less, for instance, and suddenly this gives power to the other person. And if the person is always there, available to you all the time, it means that at some point you have to be careful. But I think what's also important is that at some point the medium clearly tells the ok, now you have to stop. But, you know, we don't have control over what the person will do next. It's kind of like if a barman tells someone, okay, I'm not serving you anymore, and that person goes to the bar next door. It's the same for us. Once we've said what we needed to say, they can do what they like.

[Anna Richardson]

This makes perfect sense to me that Gilles was very close to his father. He adored his father, and he's bereaved. So the idea that you could, for one more time speak to the man that you love. You know, I have huge sympathy for Gilles with this. I mean, I think this is. What if we go and see a psychic or a medium? You flip flop between. I want to. I so desperately want to believe this, but. Hang on a minute. Am I being tricked?

[Leo Chic]

But Gilles has also spoken about Sofia's more supernatural abilities.

[Isa]

What?

[Leo Chic]

So in Media Lieb, the local paper, during a session, he says that he saw a book fly over her head.

[Anna Richardson]

No.

[Leo Chic]

And he also talked about other objects moving around the room when she wasn't near them.

[Anna Richardson]

Oh, Gilles. No.

[Leo Chic]

There's also this other example where at some point they were in a car together and a garage door started moving without Gilles seeing anyone control it. So apparently at that moment, Sophia turned to him and said, it's your dad. So there are a lot of occasions like that where he feels things are moving around him.

[Anna Richardson]

You're slightly freaking me out.

[Leo Chic]

It's never happened to you in any of your.

[Anna Richardson]

I've never seen things move and. Come on, things don't move. Things don't go bump in the night. That's just madness.

[Leo Chic]

Do you think it would make you feel like, okay, no, this is a trick.

[Anna Richardson]

I mean, do you know what? God, I keep. I'm going to backtrack now because, you know, things have happened to me that I can't explain. But I've not seen things move. But yes, I think if I did, then my logical brain would go, someone's fucking with me.

[Leo Chic]

But objects weren't just moving. In the sessions with Gilles, Sophia's other clients also experienced similar things.

[Isa]

There was a painting on the side of Sophia's desk, and the painting flipped down.

[Leo Chic]

I chatted with Isa, who knew Sofia for over a decade and saw her for more than a dozen sessions.

[Isa]

Well, the first Time I heard about Sofia was through a friend of mine who told me, once you have to meet somebody, you will be so astonished. But watch out, he can be afraid of something, things flying or things like that. So I was just ending from a breast cancer. So I had a lot of questions and I said, why not? So I took an appointment. And I met Sophia. We were in a. In kind of a living room. She was sitting at a table. I was facing her. She first deal cards. What was really surprising for me is that she got me a lot of names of people of my family that she never met. I've never been speaking about them. She can't know. I've never met her before, so she can't know. We don't know each other. I was about to leave, and she told me, don't leave. Isa, there's somebody who wants to talk to you. I said, somebody wants to talk to me? I've never been asking for that, because I was very afraid of that. She took something that she's using, which is called a Ouija. You know what it is? It's kind of a board, okay? And she took out four letters. The four letters was the name of somebody that I've been taking care of for two years. And she said, she wants to talk to you. Emotionally, it was very, very, very hard. I was so shocked. Shocked, but I mean, at the same time, I was so light, but so shocked because it was at least 15 times that I was coming to Sofia's place. I couldn't find the way back home. And since that, I mean, I won't say that I'm in peace with death, but this has changed something.

[Leo Chic]

Sophia wasn't just busy with Gilles and her other clients. She had been planning her wedding at a local castle. On the stately lawns, chairs were set up for the wedding guests. Woven baskets with doves had been delivered. Large feathered angel wings were assembled for a photo backdrop. And Gilles had an important role to play.

[Louise Colcombe]

There's a long white carpet. She has an amazing dress.

[Leo Chic]

Here's journalist Louise again.

[Louise Colcombe]

Everything is precise and very chic and expensive.

[Leo Chic]

The man Sofia chose to have on her arm on her wedding day was her client, friend and town mayor, Gilles.

[Louise Colcombe]

Obviously, they had that kind of close relationship. And he knew that people would make videos. So he wasn't ashamed at all of his relationship to her. He really believed in her. And when you walk a woman to the aisle, it means you accept to have the role of the father. I mean, in a symbolic way. It's huge.

[Leo Chic]

I've got a photo from the wedding that I want to show you.

[Anna Richardson]

Oh, wow. God. This is the first time I've seen Gilles and Sophia. I mean, what I can see here is this very lush veil. And she's holding, you know, sort of two dozen white roses. It's very fairy tale, isn't it? And he's so proud. Do you know? You know what makes me sad? He's a good man. He's a good guy. And the way that he's sort of holding her and leading her, it is very, very paternal. And he looks so proud.

[Leo Chic]

Gilles role on the day didn't end at leading her down the aisle. Quoted immediately, Sophia says that Gilles also gifted her and her husband their wedding rings that were from Cartier.

[Anna Richardson]

I want to meet Gilles. Can I just say, happy for Gilles to walk me down any aisle. This guy sounds incredible.

[Leo Chic]

Looking at the photo, you see people dressed in bright colors, flowery prints, a beautiful summer wedding. But what this photo doesn't tell us is that many of the 200 guests in attendance knew Sophia because they were or had been clients of hers. Isa was there and I asked her about it.

[Isa]

There was musicians, singers, two buffets. It was in a castle. And I was kind of surprised because it was over top, top, top, top. But there was that man. Very, very present.

[Leo Chic]

So by that man, can I ask, are you referring to Gilles? Yeah. What did that feel like to you?

[Valerie Gouget]

Weird.

[Isa]

I know that Sophia hasn't got any parents left because she's got a very difficult childhood. I thought he was taking a very large place and she was kind of like a little girl, you know? That's the feeling that I had at that time.

[Anna Richardson]

Okay, so big, big question for me. We have heard about amazing food. We've heard about doves. We've heard about a white carpet. I've seen a photo of Sofia and Gilles. This is lavish, lavish, lavish. Tell me, how much did this cost?

[Leo Chic]

So I've seen reporting that estimates it on the low end around €30,000, but all the way to €80,000.

[Anna Richardson]

What? Seriously? Wow. Who paid for it?

[Leo Chic]

That's a really, really good question. Because this is something that guests at the wedding were asking themselves.

[Anna Richardson]

I mean, something sounds really dodgy here. Where's that cash come from? Big question.

[Leo Chic]

Another intriguing detail that was later reported by Midi Libre was that towards the end of the evening, Sophia calls a toast. And all 200 guests in unison chorus thank you, Papa. Which is what the Archangel Michael was asking Gilles to call him during the regular phone calls.

[Anna Richardson]

Right? So hold on a second. If the guests were asked to thank Papa. This is Sofia's wedding, so Sophia must have asked those guests to thank Papa. Therefore, she must know surely who Papa is, no?

[Leo Chic]

That is a very good question. On the next episode of the mystic and the Mare. We learn how Sofia was shaped by her early years.

[Isa]

The first few years of a child's life can have a really profound and.

[Anna Richardson]

Last lasting effect on the development of their brain.

[Leo Chic]

And discover her journey from schoolyard psychic to professional clairvoyant.

[Louise Colcombe]

She was trying to play the fortune teller at 15, 16, 17 years old.

[Anna Richardson]

The mystic and the Mayor was presented by me, Anna Richardson and presented, researched.

[Leo Chic]

And produced by me, Leo Sheik.

[Anna Richardson]

The series was written and produced by Palama Kaufman. Our executive producers are Kelly Windsorbergin and Elsa Rochester.

[Leo Chic]

Sound design is by Craig Edmondson.

[Anna Richardson]

The mystic and the Mayor is a co production between Audio Always and Bite youe Tongue Productions.

[Leo Chic]

I made multiple attempts to contact Gilles de Torre and Sophia Martinez through their lawyers, but they did not wish to speak on the record. The invitation to speak remains open to both of them. Gilles and Sophia and all defendants in the current investigation are presumed innocent until judgment.