Abolish Ice

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Necessary Conversation — "Abolish ICE"

Date: July 15, 2026
Host: Chad (A)
Guest: Mom (B)

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Overview

In this charged midweek episode, The Necessary Conversation takes a familial—almost therapeutic—approach to dissecting urgent political events, focusing on the recent fatal shootings by ICE agents and public fear surrounding immigration, government overreach, and national security. The show sees a remarkable shift in perspective from the host’s conservative mother, culminating in her siding with the call to “Abolish ICE.”

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Opening Segment: Setting the Stage

• Starts with Host Chad and his mom, who’s donned her “best American flag hat," ready to share political clips from opposing viewpoints.
• Purpose: Family therapy-style political discussion, reviewing media from both the left and right to challenge each other's assumptions and beliefs.

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Discussing Iran and Fear Politics

[00:57–05:44] Iranian Exile Clip

• B shares a clip from an Iranian lawyer in exile warning Donald Trump (and Americans) that Iran will seek revenge and potentially use nuclear weapons as retaliation for past U.S. actions.
• Notable Quote [04:00]:
  "If your next generation sees nuclear bombs reigning in New York, in Washington, and Israel and Saudi Arabia, don't be surprised. [...] I highly recommend you to be wise enough and eliminate this regime to its core and replace it with a peaceful and modern Iran, or be prepared to take the hit." — Iranian lawyer
• Mom's take: The clip triggers her fear. She relates it to her (and Dad’s) belief that ceaseless violence with Iran may end in apocalypse.
• Host reaction: Chad points out how such clips are designed to keep people "locked in a loop of perpetually being afraid and enraged" ([05:53]).
• Quote [05:53]:
  "That fear that you're talking about...is purposeful. It's to keep you locked in this loop of perpetually being afraid and enraged. Afraid and enraged. You are afraid of an enemy, now you are enraged. We must kill them. That's how Trump operates." — Chad

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Media Bias, Misinformation, and "Foreign" Crime Narratives

[06:38–09:48] The "Foreign Truck Driver" Social Media Post

• Mom shares an Instagram post (wrongly attributed as official, revealed as a fan account) claiming the media ignores Americans killed by "foreign truck drivers."
• Chad debunks the post, noting 5,000 deaths caused by American citizen truck drivers annually, and emphasizes the skewed focus.
• Discussion on driver’s licenses for undocumented immigrants and supposed dangers.
• Chad challenges the double standard and selective outrage focused on "foreign" perpetrators.

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The ICE Shootings: Laying Out the Case

[10:34–13:33] The Maine Shooting — Humanizing the Victim

• Clip detailing the fatal shooting of Joan Sebastian Guerrero: 26, legal worker, killed by ICE while on his way to work.
• The story emphasizes the trauma experienced by Guerrero’s young daughter and the lack of accountability.
• Notable Quote [13:33]:
  "His last words were, 'I tried to stop.' [...] They dragged his lifeless body onto the pavement. They handcuffed him. After he was dead. They handcuffed a dead man in front of his three year old daughter. [...] The government killed a man and now they want to investigate themselves. They're getting away with murder and they're counting on us to let them." — Clip narrator

[13:37–15:29] Mom’s Evolving View

• Mom admits she wasn't aware of the story, is shocked by the narration, and expresses a desire to see more footage before fully reacting.
• She’s moved by the account, calling it "terrible" and "murder," implying a shift in perspective on ICE’s tactics.

[16:22–17:37] Accountability, Body Cameras, and Political Blame

• Clip of Tom Homan (ICE head) blaming lack of body cameras on Democrats due to budget delays, despite recent funding.
• Chad and Mom agree this is a cover-up, with Mom now openly calling Homan a liar.

[21:26–22:44] Body Camera Cover-Up

• New footage emerges seeming to show ICE agents wearing body cameras, undermining official claims.
• Notable Exchange [22:41]:
  Chad: "It seems like they do have body cam footage of it. It's horrific. And there's no way they are going to put that out in the public because it's very clearly murder. Tom Homan is now standing in front of CNN reporters lying about it. Does it not seem like that to you?"
  Mom: "Yes. So cover up. And he's lying. Yes."

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A Pivotal Moment: “Abolish ICE”

[18:21–22:51]

• Mom, for the first time, unequivocally calls for ICE to be abolished:
  Host: "You're saying—correct me if I'm wrong here—you’re saying abolish ICE?"
  Mom: "Yes." ([18:41])
• Chad is shocked and thrilled, marking this as a watershed moment in their years-long dialogue.
• Mom reflects on how she once thought ICE was only targeting criminals but now sees widespread abuse and unchecked state violence.

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Broader Political Dysfunction & Refusal to Speak Hard Truths

[23:13–26:03] National Intelligence Nominee Dodges Basic Fact

• Clip of Trump’s DNI pick, Jay Clayton, refusing to admit who won the 2020 election under Senate questioning, drawing parallel to previous evasive Republican confirmation testimonies.
• Mom joins the criticism, calling Clayton “an ass” for dodging the question.
• Notable Quote [25:57]:
  Sen. Ossoff: "Isn't it humiliating to be unable to answer this question, to have to indulge the president's delusions?"

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Limits of Change, Loyalty to Trump

• Chad presses Mom to “denounce Trump” after her concessions, but she maintains:
  "Trump is still my president." ([27:11])
• She acknowledges pride in moving her stance on ICE, but she's not ready to abandon Trump (not yet).

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• [05:53] Chad: “That fear that you’re talking about...is purposeful. It’s to keep you locked in this loop of perpetually being afraid and enraged…”
• [13:33] Clip Narrator: "His last words were, 'I tried to stop.' ... They handcuffed a dead man in front of his three year old daughter..."
• [18:41] Mom: "Abolish ICE." (First full verbal agreement)
• [22:41] Chad: "It seems like they do have body cam footage of it. It's horrific. And there's no way they are going to put that out..."
• [25:57] Sen. Ossoff: "Isn't it humiliating to be unable to answer this question, to have to indulge the president's delusions?"
• [27:11] Mom: "Trump is still my president."

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Important Timestamps by Segment

• [00:57] — Iranian exile (fear, Iran, Trump)
• [06:38] — “Foreign truck driver” Instagram post discussion
• [10:34] — ICE killing of Joan Sebastian Guerrero (Maine)
• [16:22] — Tom Homan blames Democrats for lack of body cams
• [21:26] — Evidence ICE did have body cams
• [18:41] — Mom: “Abolish ICE”
• [23:13] — Senate hearing: DNI nominee dodges 2020 election question
• [27:11] — Mom: “Trump is still my president”
• [30:01] — Mom, final catchphrase: “Abolish ICE” (again)

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Tone and Style

• Intimate, familial, and often playful: Even as debate gets heated, there’s clear affection, teasing (“I love you, Chad...I am shocked by what you have said here today”).
• Emotionally honest: Mom expresses her fear, confusion, and evolving opinions without pretense.
• Politically blunt: Profanity, heated language, and disbelief on both sides highlight the seriousness, but also the relatability, of the conversation.

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Conclusion

This episode is a landmark in "family therapy through politics," with the host’s mother—after years of debate—publicly declaring her support for abolishing ICE, triggered by the agency’s unchecked violence and government cover-up. The conversation moves from international fearmongering to domestic abuses of power, shining a spotlight on how media narratives, political loyalty, and critical questioning collide in the personal sphere.

End note: The episode closes on the new catchphrase:
“Abolish ICE. You got it.” ([30:01])

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Necessary Conversation midweek edition. With me today is my mom wearing her best American flag hat.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

Hello.

[B]

I'm here.

[A]

All right, we're going to show each other clips from the opposite sides of the aisle here, or you have. You sent me one clip and then some, like, still images of an Instagram account which we'll be looking at. And then I have some clips to play for you as well. Where do you want to start with your stuff?

[B]

I didn't have a lot of time today. I've had a very productive good day, but very tiring. So I just grabbed a couple I saw when I first saw on Instagram, so who knows?

[A]

Yeah, I. I gave them a. A brief kind of viewing. I was like, what in the is this?

[B]

I don't think. I don't think they're AI, though. Let's see.

[A]

Okay, well, let's play this first one. This is a clip you sent to me. I only watched like the first three seconds of this, so I don't even really know what it's about. Let's take a look.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

This is.

[B]

I probably don't either.

[C]

To President of the Hearts, Donald J. Trump, as well as the next generation of American people. I'm speaking to you as an Iranian lawyer in exile who has lived half of his life under the Islamic Republic regime rule. So please take my comments very seriously. It means I know what I'm talking about. I don't want to remind you of how the Islamic regime brutally murdered 45,000 of its own people as you already know it. I don't wish to remind you of how they have chanted Death to America and their anti American ideology. I'm sure you know that too. I don't wish to ask you not to negotiate any peace deal with the regime, with the remaining elements of this regime, actually. But I wish to warn you of something extremely dangerous you're going to face sooner or later. This regime and its elements are anti American by nature. No matter how cool or peaceful they might pretend to be to escape their dismantlement and lying their way back into power during the ceasefire or even after they have already started chanting Death to America and burning the American flags again. Do you wish to know why? Because you killed their supreme leader, their guru, their God on earth. This is just enough reason for them to come after you for revenge. Your presidential time will pass, Mr. President, and perhaps some coward American president will replace you. These evil people will have enough time to rebuild or buy their nuclear bomb and improve their missile range. If your next generation Sees nuclear bombs reigning in New York, in Washington and Israel and Saudi Arabia. Don't be surprised. That's how these evil people will take their revenge. And they don't care if they get that blowback. Are talking about an ideology and by doing so they have reached their long term objective. Of course this is suicidal for them, but they believe they will go to heaven and they will meet their 72 virgins. The destruction of Americans and Israel and their Arab rivals will give them a path to their imaginary heaven. I believe this is now a one way street for America. I highly recommend you to be wise enough and eliminate this regime to its core and replace it with a peaceful and modern Iran or be prepared to take the hit. Of course, the choice is all yours. But don't be shortsighted. The history is being written and one day it will be too late.

[A]

Okay. What a clip. So who is this guy? Where are you getting this from?

[B]

That he said he's an Iranian lawyer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that was his belief. And when I saw that I thought that's what dad believes too.

[A]

I understand, but do you think that he's speaking on behalf of all Iranian people?

[B]

No, we've talked about that before. But he was speaking about the guys that have been massacring him for 47 years.

[A]

Huh. I'm not saying like the Iranian government is perfect and has been great. Obviously that's not the case. But you're always positioning this idea that everybody in Iran wants America to basically blow them up. That obviously cannot be true. Right.

[B]

We talked about that on Nate's show and I understand that he, he's talking about the bad guys.

[A]

Okay, so I don't understand, what's the purpose of this clip that you're showing me to? Are you in support of the war in Iran?

[B]

Well, it's getting to the point we can't have ceasefire, then we go back to bombing, then we have another ceasefire, then we go to back to bombing. I'm afraid in the end it's going to be what your dad said. We're just going to blow him up.

[A]

Trump already said that. Trump already said. I think it was last night he said that he used a nuclear weapon in Iran. I mean, obviously he hasn't yet. His brain is addled. But that's I, it's where it's leaning for sure. I know there's all this talk of, oh, if Iran gets a nuclear weapon, they're going to use it on us, so we better use ours first. There's all of that happening, but clips like this I. I don't. I'm just asking you, like, why did you show me this clip? What was the point of it?

[B]

Because it scared me to think that that could be the way it all ends, that they just. Everybody gets blown up. It's very scary to me.

[A]

Yes. That fear that you're talking about, how it's very scary to you. That's purposeful. It's. It's to keep you locked in this loop of perpetually being afraid and enraged. Afraid and enraged. You are afraid of an enemy now you are enraged. We must kill them. That's how Trump operates.

[B]

I. I don't want them killed. But I'm afraid now. Okay.

[A]

Because of that clip?

[B]

Yes. Kind of. Yes.

[A]

Okay, well, I wish you weren't as afraid of that clip, but let's move on to this other thing. Is just some. It's an Instagram post, basically, not a video. We're gonna look at this now. Are you ready? You sent me this.

[B]

Yeah, because I had something to go with that.

[A]

I do believe this is from an Instagram account called Caroline Levitt hq. Heartbreaking. Four innocent Americans have been killed in the past two weeks by foreign truck drivers. The media has said nothing at all. And then it's a long caption here. Insane. The tragedy. Heartbreaking. Blah, blah, blah. And it has pictures of these four people who have been supposedly killed by, in quotes, foreign truck drivers. And the media has said nothing at all. My first question to you is, do you think this is Caroline Lovett posting this?

[B]

I do believe it is, because it has the blue check mark.

[A]

Okay. So the blue check mark on Instagram can be purchased by anyone. It's just a monthly subscription fee. You can have one if you want.

[B]

Did not know that. I thought that meant it was the real deal and that was her real account.

[A]

I'm going to remove this. And I did do a little research into this by just clicking on the account. I did one extra step of research here, and this is what that account is. It even says there up in the top that it is a fan headquarters for Caroline Lovett. This is not her Instagram account.

[B]

Oh, okay. Huh.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

Just to let you know now, I was wrong.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yes, you were wrong. I also looked this up. I don't have it. I forget where I put it, but I remember the. The details of it. I googled how many people are killed by American citizen truck drivers per year.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Does that matter to you at all?

[B]

Every life matters to me.

[A]

Okay. And what do you think the number is?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

It was 5,000. Okay, so here you're giving me evidence from a Caroline Levitt fan account that four people have been killed by, in quotes, foreign truck drivers. But American citizen truck drivers have killed 5,000 people. Does that factor into any of this to you?

[B]

Like I said, every life matters. Yeah, but when I saw that and I read what was down below it, it made sense to me that the mainstream media remains completely silent, choosing to ignore these preventable deaths while pushing their own agendas. You know, human cost of open borders, people coming across. We didn't even know. Yeah, we need security and accountability and we need to put lives first. All lives.

[A]

Uhhuh.

[B]

Uhhuh.

[A]

Okay, but why are you pinpointing this thing? The foreign, in quotes, foreign truck drivers.

[B]

We brought that up before. There are people that are getting driver's license that do not know English

[C]

in

[B]

your state of California. They give them out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They don't have to be able to read English. No English. They say, here's your truck, go drive. And they're going down wrong way highways.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

They're killing people that way.

[A]

All right, hard disagree. And I don't get why you're not as outraged about the 5,000 people that are being killed by citizen, American citizen truck drivers.

[B]

Every life is a big deal, Chad. So.

[A]

Okay, well, speaking of, let's move on to some of my clips. There was obviously a. Another or there were two horrific ICE murders that happened in this past week. The most recent one was in Maine. I have some clips that we are going to look through that kind of give a. I'm going to give you the identity of the. The person that was killed. Then we're going to see a clip of Tom Homan lying to the press. Then we're going to see a clip about the body cameras that supposedly these ICE agents were not wearing. All right, this first clip is a little bit of a longer one. It's about three minutes long, but we're going to take a look at it because this lays out very clearly who this guy was that they killed and what the circumstances of the killing were. Here we go.

[E]

His name is Joanne Sebastian Guerrero. He was shot and killed by ICE in Biddeford, Maine. He was 26 years old. He had a Social Security card, he had a work permit. He was not the person I.C.E. intended to arrest. He was on his way to work, on his way to earn a paycheck, on his way to provide for his family. The kind of drive millions of Americans make every single morning without giving it a second thought. A cup of coffee, a few red lights, thinking about work, thinking about getting home. Thinking about your little girl waiting for you at the end of the day. Instead, his daughter watched her father die. She's three years old. She was wearing bluey pajamas. One minute she had a father, the next she didn't. They pulled him from the car, bleeding from the head. His last words were, I tried to stop. I tried to stop. I can't get those words out of my head because they are the words of a man trying to live, not fight, not run, not hurt anyone, live. And then they dragged his lifeless body onto the pavement. They handcuffed him. After he was dead. They handcuffed a dead man in front of his three year old daughter. And they left him there for hours. There will come a day when she's old enough to ask what happened to her father. Old enough to understand that the world can split open without warning. Old enough to discover that the last thing he ever said was not I love you. It was, I tried to stop. This was the second fatal ice shooting involving the wrong person in the span of a single week. The public deserves a full independent investigation. His family deserves a full independent investigation. Because when the government takes a human life, the burden is not on the grieving to prove something went wrong. The burden is on those who wield that power to answer for it. The government killed a man and now they want to investigate themselves. They're getting away with murder and they're counting on us to let them. They expect us to move on, to look away, to tell ourselves he was just another brown man, that we're not supposed to care about another human being's father because he couldn't possibly be one of us. They want us to get over this, to get used to this bullshit. And if we do that, then we are lost. That's the oldest lie power has ever told. It always starts by convincing you that somebody else is the exception. Somebody else is the threat. Somebody else is the one you don't have to worry about. Until one day, it isn't somebody else. It's your husband, your wife, your brother, your sister, your father, your child. Unchecked, power does not stay in its fucking lane. It expands. It excuses itself. It feeds on silence and it keeps knocking on doors until eventually it knocks on yours. His name was Joan Sebastian Guerrero. He was 26 years old. He was on his way to work. His last words were, I tried to stop. He tried to stop. Wake the fuck up before the knock at the door belongs to your family. Because by then it will Already be too fucking late.

[A]

All right, so have you been following the news of this guy?

[B]

No.

[A]

You heard all that, though, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

26 years old, on his way to work. ICE attempts to pull him over. They shoot him while he's still driving. We've all seen. Or I guess if you haven't been following, you haven't seen these videos. I. I didn't realize that I should have put these clips in here. There are videos of his car after he shot.

[C]

He.

[A]

Obviously, he's incapacitated from being shot by ice. His car is just driving in a circle. What's that?

[B]

What state was it in?

[A]

Maine.

[B]

Maine. Okay.

[A]

Here, legally. On a work visa, I believe. And they killed him. Also not the guy they were after, just like the dude that they killed in Houston in the span of a week. So ICE is now completely unchecked. These are two people that have been killed. When this happened to Alex Preddy and Renee Goode, you didn't care. You were on ISIS side now, though. Yeah. You were.

[B]

I was on ISIS side at that time because I did watch both of those clips. That. So that was my opinion.

[A]

I agree. What I'm saying. You were on ice's side with those two. But the guy in Houston. We talked about that on Sunday. You were against it.

[C]

You.

[A]

You kind of flipped on ICE because of that. This now is another incident just like that one. How do you feel about this one?

[B]

I'm trying to pull it up. I see it right now. I haven't seen the car. Just a minute. Did you say what.

[A]

What are you doing? Are you watching another video outside of our.

[B]

You told me to watch this clip. I haven't seen it yet.

[A]

We can watch the clip right now. We can watch it on Sunday or something, though. We don't have to wait for you to watch our whole video.

[B]

I need to make my. I mean, it's terrible. Yeah, yeah. The way that lady explained it was murder. Yes. Yeah, I need to. I pulled up the clip. You won't let me watch it, so I'll have to watch it.

[A]

Go ahead, watch it. It's kind of. It's from far away. The car is moving behind some trees. Basically, what happens in the clip is you see. You don't actually see the shooting. There are two doorbell cameras that caught at least the audio of the shooting in that neighborhood. But we don't have the shooting on camera as of yet. What you do have is his car in this intersection kind of doing a lazy circle. And then an ICE agent rams the car to stop it. This the reason that he's doing the lazy circle is because they already shot him. This guy is dying in the driver's seat. His daughter is in the back seat of the car witnessing all of this. And now, well, I'll show you this next clip. But basically Tom Homan, the head of dhs, the guy who took over for Christy Dom, is now saying that there is no footage of the shooting because these officers didn't have body cams. And he blames that on Democrats. Let's take a look at this clip.

[B]

Why were the ICE agents not wearing body cameras in Houston or in Maine during these two incidents?

[D]

When the Democrats shut down department Homeland Security, I was up on the Hill as part of the negotiating team to reopen the government and they wanted body cameras. There's $120 million in the budget they were holding up to buy those body cameras. Now since a big beautiful bill passed now the reconciliation bill, the body cameras have been ordered. There's a deployment schedule on the books. And right now they just trained to train so officers in each field office can train their officers on the use of the body cam.

[B]

That funding was approved in April for body cameras. $20 million I believe. So why has that not been distributed and will these arrests were bought?

[D]

One of the first thing I did in Minnesota is bring hundreds of cameras to Minnesota recently purchased. But it wasn't the cameras to outfit every ICE agent that was waiting up for more money. And the delay in ice, the DHS funding shutdown delayed a lot of that cameras.

[B]

But don't you see that to be extremely urgent given right now we do not have video of these situations beyond witnesses.

[D]

As soon as they had funding, they bought them. If the Democrats.

[B]

But it's been two months since April,

[D]

it would have been a lot quicker.

[A]

So there you go. That's Tom Homan. This is also the guy who took a $50,000 bribe from undercover FBI agents. He is just standing there lying through his teeth about the fact I know

[B]

he's also the guy that Obama gave a medal to and stuff too. So both sides here, I mean that's the truth. So you can't say it's one sided.

[A]

I'm not saying it is one sided.

[B]

I think he. Yeah, I think he's lying of course, 100%.

[A]

But then he's also trying to blame it on the Democrats. He's saying the reason that these ICE officers didn't have body cameras is because the Democrats shut down government in April or whatever. Makes no sense whatsoever.

[B]

No, ICE is totally out of Control. They need to shut it down. It's ridiculous. I. They're killing people. Now I see it. Now I do see it. They're killing people they shouldn't kill. It needs to be.

[A]

You're saying. Correct me if I'm wrong here, you're saying abolish ice?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What the. Are you kidding me right now?

[B]

I don't like people getting murdered that shouldn't be murdered. That's ridiculous. That's terrible.

[A]

Please say this. Please, just on this camera right now, say, abolish ice.

[B]

Abolish ice.

[A]

Oh, my God. I. I wish Haley was here. I'm getting chills. This is the biggest step forward you have ever taken in there. We've been doing the show for four and whatever amount of years. Change that, lady.

[D]

You're not.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're saying a bullish ice.

[B]

Yes, I am. I talked to dad about it today. He said. Yeah. I said yes.

[A]

Wait, is dad on the side of the ICE agent still?

[B]

Of course he is. Yes.

[A]

And so how does he justify this?

[B]

I don't think he has seen that clip. But he knew about the one in Houston.

[A]

Holy crap. I can't believe this. I don't even know what to say.

[B]

It's starting out. I talked about this last time. It started out where they were doing, I thought, good. Getting the. Only the bad guys out of here. Only the bad guys that shouldn't have been here, that have come and gone and come and gone and done crimes, the criminals. I thought that those were the people that they were taking out of our country. But now look what they're doing. So this is not good for anyone.

[A]

They need to stop, of course, but I mean, abolish ICE is like, that's a big step. That's not saying reform. That's not saying they need better training. Defund them even. You're saying, get rid of the entire agency.

[B]

Get rid of them. Holy.

[A]

What. What is the difference? What's the difference between, like, these two cases and Renee Good and Alex Preddy to you?

[B]

I just think they are murdering people, though. Now, those weren't. I, I, I saw the clips on those. I'd like to see the clip on this last one, but. Well, they're not doing good anymore.

[A]

We don't have that clip. Like I was saying, there's two video clips. One that was taken from. I don't know what. How this one clip was. Was taken, but you see it from very far away. The guy's car is kind of circling around the intersection.

[B]

The.

[A]

Then there's another clip taken from a driver who's approaching the scene as this black SUV is coming the other way. Then there are two clips at least as of right now, from people's doorbell cameras where you can't see anything but you just hear the gunshots. There are, I believe, five shots. All that said, let's take a look at this next clip because as you just saw right there, Tom Homan is saying they did not have body cams and it's the Democrats fault. Now let's take a look at this clip.

[B]

They said that they did have body cams, which is a pretty bold move when there's so much footage of them having what looks like body cams. Is anyone in our government going to ask about what the fuck is here and here?

[F]

Anyone?

[B]

Because I sure as would like to see what's on that footage.

[A]

So you saw that it looks like they are wearing body cams, right? So if they're not, what are those things? I mean, those. Those are pretty clearly body cams. So what is going on with who's lying? And clearly Tom Homan is covering it up. These ICE agents seem to be lying about the fact that there is no body cam footage, which to me, and look, we don't. We don't know, maybe those aren't body cams. Who knows? But this is what it seems like to me. It seems like they do have body cam footage of it. It's horrific. And there's no way they are going to put that out in the public because it's very clearly murder. Tom Homan is now standing in front of CNN reporters lying about it. Does it not seem like that to you?

[B]

Yes. So cover up. And he's lying. Yes.

[D]

Wow.

[A]

I can't believe this. This is like the greatest day on this podcast. I can't believe you've said abolish ice.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I. I literally don't even know what to do with myself right now. This is so wild. Well, let me. I have one more clip that is unrelated to this, but I mean, we're on a roll here. Let's see if we can get you against some other shit today.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

All right, I have one more clip. Are you ready for this clip?

[B]

Mom, Last one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is. Today they're having a hearing for this guy named Jay Clayton who is Trump's pick to be the Director of National Intelligence. And he's asked a very simple question by John Ossoff. And you'll see how he answers it here. Here we go.

[F]

Who won the 2020 election?

[D]

You know what?

[C]

I'm not. I'm not gonna do this with you.

[F]

This is a job interview. We've established that. You have an obligation, honest and forthright, with the committee. Yes. You do have an obligation to be honest and forthright with the committee.

[B]

Yes.

[F]

Who won the 2020 election?

[A]

Like I said, I'm not. I'm not going to get into that

[F]

with you, but you do have an obligation to be honest and forthright with the committee.

[A]

Is anything that I just said not honest or forthright?

[F]

Yes. You're not being honest or forthright. Who won the tournament?

[C]

I think I've won.

[A]

We can keep doing this.

[F]

Well, we're going to keep doing it because you're not being honest and forthright.

[A]

I'm not going to engage in the theater.

[F]

It's a simple question, Mr. Clayton. And I've asked who won the 2020 presidential election.

[A]

I've answered it.

[F]

You're here asking for the support of senators to lead America's intelligence community. We've established that you have an obligation to be honest and forthright with this committee and with the American public, but you refuse to answer a simple matter of fact about the 2020 election. Is that right?

[B]

No, that's not right.

[F]

Then answer the question. Who won 2020 election?

[A]

I have answered.

[F]

Answer it. What is your answer?

[A]

I've given you my answer.

[F]

What is your answer? You refuse to answer a basic question about who won a presidential election.

[B]

No.

[F]

But you asked to lead America's intelligence community. Isn't it humiliating to be unable to answer this question, to have to indulge the president's delusions? We know, you know, everybody in this room knows the truthful answer to that question. Why can you not give it?

[A]

I think I gave you the answer. Okay, so there is Trump's pick to be the Director of National Intelligence. Cannot answer the question, who won the 2020? Or refuses to, I should say. Obviously he can, but the reason he's doing that is because Trump has claimed he won it and that there was election fraud, et cetera, et cetera. And so this guy trying to get the job from Trump is towing that party line, but it's a lie.

[B]

Just the way he said it, too. He was being an ass. He could just say, I refrain from answering that at this time. Move on. I mean, he could have said it in a nicer way, that he didn't want to answer it and move on. No, he's being an ass.

[A]

But they all do this. This is like Brett Kavanaugh does it. It's this kind of, like, fake outrage. When they're asked a very simple question or that they don't want to answer, they turn it around and kind of like, well, you, I'm not going to answer this. Or they even victimize themselves in it. Remember Brett Kavanaugh when he was doing the. The confirmation hearings and they were like, how many beers did you have? And he's like, I like beer.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you remember that?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

This is that same kind of attitude. And this is how all Republicans when they're coming before the Senate for any kind of confirmation hearing, for any position in the cabinet or national intelligence, whatever, they all adopt this exact same thing. Pam Bondi did this before she was fired. Kristi Noem did this before.

[B]

I wouldn't say it's just one sided. I'd say it's both sides. Sometimes it's just politics, politicians. But that was pretty. Sorry.

[A]

So you're against this guy, too?

[B]

That was pretty lame the way he answered all that.

[A]

Do you want this guy to be the head, The Director of National Intelligence?

[B]

No. No.

[A]

What is going on here? Let me just ask one another question. I mean, maybe we're going to get. Third time's a charm here.

[B]

Trump is still my president.

[A]

God damn it. God damn it. That's where I was gonna go. That was my next question. Will you denounce Trump? Not yet.

[B]

I knew you were going to ask it. I know my son. I know what you think, how you

[A]

think we're getting close to them. I mean, I can't believe you've said abolish ice. So accepting that information and hearing yourself even say it, how does that make you feel?

[B]

Pretty good. Good.

[A]

Okay, now think how much better you're going to feel when you say, I denounce Donald Trump.

[B]

He's still my president.

[A]

Wow. Well, I mean, I don't know where we can go from here. This was the best midweek episode we've ever had, maybe the best episode of this podcast entirely in terms of getting you to kind of see the light here.

[B]

And we missed Haley. We missed Haley is. She's just gallivanting and so famous. She doesn't want to come back down to earth with me. And chatting, apparently.

[E]

What?

[B]

Well, she gets. What do you mean, miss her bakery. The Hive is selling out a merch and selling every bakery item. She can't even keep the ovens going.

[C]

And.

[A]

But that's not why she's not here recording with us. She's busy.

[B]

Yes. Famous people wanting all kinds of merch from her all over the world and country now.

[A]

Okay, okay. Well, this is kind of a shorter midweek episode, I guess, but damn, what a great one. Mom, thank you so much for doing this. I love you. I. I am shocked by what you have said here today, but also very proud, very thankful. And I'm curious to see what Wednesday brings because I'm sure we're going to be talking about this a little bit more. Or Sunday.

[B]

Sorry, Sunday.

[A]

Yeah, I'm sure we're going to be talking about.

[B]

Today is Wednesday.

[A]

I think we have a lot coming up on Sunday. I'm sure we'll be talking about Ice on Sunday, But Trump is due to give a big speech tomorrow night where he's going to try and convince the world that all of the elections here are fraudulent so that he can come in and install his goons to try and take control of them. There's obviously the Iran war still going on, maybe at its worst place that it's been since he started it.

[B]

I do want to see what he says. I want to watch that. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I'm going to watch it as well. But thank you, mom, for doing this. I love you. And we will be back on Sunday.

[B]

I love you, Chad. I love you. Famous Haley, come back down to earth with this, please. I miss you.

[A]

Hal, she's working. It's not like she's. You're painting this picture of her like she's sitting by a swimming pool sipping a pina colada with sunglasses on.

[C]

That's not.

[B]

No, I know she's working, but she's very, very famous now, so she may not have time for you and me, you know, we're just on the coat strings or whatever it's called. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

All right.

[A]

Well, before we go one more time, can we get your new catchphrase, which is abolish ice.

[B]

Abolish ice. You got it.