Mark Bowden (4:06)

Maureen, thanks for having me. A new year, but some of the old candidates back in the frame. I think some of the old troublemakers still with us.

Maureen Callahan (4:16)

Yes. You know, to my point about the idiocy of New Year's resolutions, people don't change on a dime. Okay. They stay the same for quite some time. Our first offender, Mark, we are going to Ashton Kutcher, who, who again we took apart on the Nerve at Night this week. Now he is starring allegedly. I don't really know the amount of screen time he's got in Ryan Murphy's new body horror FX show the Beauty, the tagline for which is one shot makes you hot. So it's like an Ozempic allegory. This is Ashton talking about his new role. Here we go.

Tim McKay (4:57)

How much fun?

Maureen Callahan (4:58)

I mean, awful. How much fun was it to play.

Mark Bowden (5:00)

Like hilarious, awful, nice, angry.

Maureen Callahan (5:03)

Yes. How much fun was it to play such a super prick? Basically.

Tim McKay (5:12)

It'S really fun. Like I learned a long time ago.

Maureen Callahan (5:14)

You can't judge your character. And so you have to figure out.

Tim McKay (5:17)

How to justify why that person's doing what they're doing. And the sort of psychological challenge of.

Mark Bowden (5:25)

Figuring out how to justify these behavior.

Maureen Callahan (5:29)

Well, that's rich considering we took Ashton apart for defending the violent rapist Danny Masterson, who is currently serving 30 years to life and his longtime best friendship with Diddy. What strikes you about Ashton's demeanor in that little red carpet moment?

Tim McKay (5:49)

Mark?

Mark Bowden (5:49)

Well, look, as you know, Maureen, often I don't know as much as you do and your viewers do about the context of what's happening around here. So I watched this, and I instantly go, here's somebody on a bit of a PR campaign, it would seem to me, about don't judge people too harshly. He says, look, he. He always learned that you, you know, you can't judge your character. And there's an upturn of the side of his mouth asymmetrically into contempt. So he's kind of contemptuous either of the idea of judging people or. Or maybe even being judged himself. So there's that off the bat, then a big eyebrow raise. Okay? A look for approval on. He's doing these things, but he doesn't think there's anything wrong with them. You know, people who are doing bad things, they often don't. Don't think there's anything wrong with them. And he's looking for your approval on this. So there's contempt, possibly for the idea of being judged, and also that look of approval for being doing bad things. He kind of suggests there's an unfairness in being judged and people who judge others. And if you're getting judged by people who judge others, it's quite adolescent. It's like being back at school if you're judging people, Maureen, you're just a kid doing that. That's what he's saying. No, I know that's what he's saying.

Maureen Callahan (7:14)

Yeah. There's no such thing as right or wrong. There's no such thing as good or evil. Hey, you violently rape at least one woman with a gun to her head and practically smother her to death with a pillow. Hey, don't judge me. That's what the nerve is here for, to judge the shit out of people like Ashton Kutcher. Go, Marc.

Mark Bowden (7:31)

Well, he's. He's actually saying it's actually really good fun to justify wrongdoing. His end message is, hey, it's kind of. Kind of fun to work out how you could justify wrongdoing. Look, this is clearly, from my point of view, a considered PR campaign against, as you're suggesting, Maureen, against people like you. Okay? It's a judged PR campaign to get other people who might be fans of his or on the. On the fence about this to kind of turn around and go. People like Maureen, they're a little bit adolescent. And it's actually quite fun to do a thought experiment as to why people who do really bad things, you know, they might be okay, actually.

Maureen Callahan (8:15)

They might beat women in the elevator banks of hallways and drag them back to a sex lair by their Hair to be flying, forced to have sex with sex workers. But you know, hey, again, you're on the problem. I'm the real problem.

Mark Bowden (8:27)

Exactly.

Maureen Callahan (8:28)

The court system is the real problem. Oh, by the way, Mark, what struck me most about that as he was sort of spinning this answer to nowhere, he made it a point to bring his left hand into the frame like this and keep flashing his wedding ring. I'm a good guy. I'm a family man.

Mark Bowden (8:48)

Love it, love it. I love, I love the things you pick up on. You know, some of the things that's the great thing about nonverbal communication body language is there's so much in there. Some of the stuff I'll pick up on, some of the stuff you'll pick up on, some of the stuff your viewers will pick up on and go, hang on, what does this mean? So look, there's a lot in there. Go back, watch it again and see what you pick up.

Maureen Callahan (9:10)

Now we're going to get to Ashton being asked about the similarities between his ex wife Demi Moore's film the Substance for which he was nominated for an Oscar. Demi, who he did so dirty. And we again, we covered it on the Nerve at night. And the comparisons between the substance and Ashton in the beauty. And watch his body language. It's. I mean actors shock me because you think like they would be the most dialed into their body language and their comportment but often they are not. Let's take a look. There's early comparisons to the substance. Do you see that?

Tim McKay (9:45)

I mean one Demi's performance, like, obviously she got extraordinary accolades. I'm so proud of her. She killed it.

Maureen Callahan (9:53)

Mark.

Mark Bowden (9:55)

Well, you know, often actors need a character to play in order sometimes to protect themselves or hide behind or, or have a feeling that they have self. Okay, well here in this situation you see very clear adapting and also self soothing around the idea of Demi Moore. So he's uncomfortable around, around this idea of talking about her. And notice in the tone of his voice, okay. He speeds up. He very quickly gets through that accolade part of it and, and this, you know, giving a high status and very quickly also runs out of energy for it. You notice how his kind of words just kind of run out of energy at the end and just kind of peter off like.

Tim McKay (10:39)

Yes.

Mark Bowden (10:40)

So very nervous around it, very anxious around it. Very quick to get it over with and very soon to run out of energy for any support of his. I guess it's his ex ex wife. Ex wife. Ex wife, yeah, yeah. Who's done a. Who has had an incredible. Is having an incredible career and has had many great acting accolades. He seems to kind of gloss over that and want to get onto his next bit.

Maureen Callahan (11:08)

You know why I think that is? In part because her life got better when she got rid of him. He was the one who left, but she soared and she got nominated for an Oscar after working in the industry since she was like 17. By the way, what I love about that clip too is it's not just that he's self soothing by placing one hand to his neck. He's going around like this and it's. To me, it's like he's blocking his throat. He's blocked. Like he doesn't really want to be talking about this. And he's also blocking his interviewer from coming any closer with that line of questioning. I'm going to address this very peremptorily and then we're moving on.

Mark Bowden (11:45)

I love that. I love that. Yes, it's a very defensive gesture. You know what he moves on to after this is his modeling career. That's right. Straight on to his modeling career. And then he moves on to a social issue. So he moves from the question, which was about Demi Moore and her incredible performances and career, to instantly into his modeling career and then social issues. So a great swerve away from talking about his ex wife there.

Maureen Callahan (12:19)

Oh, my God, if those talking points don't tell you everything. Remember, I was a model. I was. I was a professional himbo. And. But I'm also smart, so. And I have compassion. Even though I. I've defended these reprobates. And let's talk social issues. Who better? Okay. Speaking of Timothy Busfield, American actor and director who was arrested this week or last week on two charges of child sexual abuse. He seems to have a pattern of this in his history with minors, teenagers. And his lawyer seems to have gotten this incredible video. Mark, this video. Busfield seemed to have filmed it himself before he turned himself in. He was missing for five days. Neither the media nor apparently law enforcement knew where he was. He recorded this video himself and then he gave it to tmz. Okay. It did not seem to be a strategically shrewd move. It seems his lawyer has scrubbed it from the Internet. But the Nerve found it. And into the archives it goes at Nerve hq. Let's take a look. And then, Mark, you tell me what you see.

Mark Bowden (13:27)

Lovely front.

Maureen Callahan (13:28)

These lies, they're horrible. They're all lies. And I did not do anything to those little boys. And I'm. I'm gonna fight it. I'M gonna fight it with a great team.

Mark Bowden (13:42)

Really interesting. Okay, do you see how he's kind of side on to us here? He's looking down the lens, so he's from an entertainment background, as you're describing, so he understands that he needs to be contact the lens, but his, his face is facing away. He doesn't kind of want to be there. I did not. I did not. He says rather than I didn't, which is a contraction. I don't like it when the, when these statements are non contracted. Okay, I did not. Rather than I didn't. He's under a lot of stress here. Well, of course he's being accused of something, so he is going to be under a lot of stress. But there isn't here, I think, the anger that we would expect from somebody who's been accused of a, a horrible, horrible crime. A horrible crime. You know, if you accused me of that crime, I would look straight down the camera at you, I would get incredibly angry at you and I would say, you come at me because I will absolutely defend this and I will destroy you.

Maureen Callahan (14:45)

I will destroy you for making such a heinous allegation against me when I am innocent. To your point about the contractions, Mark, can you expand upon that a little bit?

Mark Bowden (14:55)

Yeah, yeah, well, I could say I would, I could say I will not expand upon that. Which sounds very kind of lawyerish, doesn't it? You know, I will not. Or, or, or I could say, look, I won't do that, I won't do that. One is way more direct. The other is a little more indirect in the, in the language. I will not. I did not. You know, instead of I won't, I. Right, yeah. The innocent will tend to contract more because they want to get to their meaning. They want to get to the point. Okay. The people who are guilty will seem to spend a lot more time trying to get to the point and will never really get to the point. And the point here is if he's been wrongly accused of a horrific crime, the point is, as you say, I'm coming to get everybody who accuses me of that. And they will suffer the consequences of wrongly accusing me. I guarantee that. That's what we should hear from somebody innocent. I would suggest.

Maureen Callahan (16:01)

And you know, even just watching your facial expressions as you're modeling that what that response would look like. And me saying mine would be, I'll destroy you. I'll effing destroy you. He is on that balcony and much like Ashton Kutcher on the red carpet, his Eyebrows are raised in a kind like his head tilts down, the eyebrows go up. It's a kind of supplicant expression. Like, you believe me, right? I'm a likable guy, right? You like me instead of like. I would imagine the eyebrows would be much, they would be lowered. You know, you would be angry and like making that eye contact not just with the camera, but with your, your viewer, with the audience at home.

Mark Bowden (16:40)

Anger is. The head is straight on, the chin goes down. Okay? The, the, the eyebrows come in, the top lip tightens and it's very, very focused directly at the audience. Here it's more oblique. And look at that lovely background. It was hard to watch him because there seemed to be such a gorgeous background.

Maureen Callahan (16:58)

You know, it's all sunshine, it's all great. It's all. We're having a great time at the Holiday Inn Express Express. Before we turn ourselves in, I would.

Mark Bowden (17:07)

Be like, I'm turning my phone on right now. I don't care where I am. I'm looking down that phone. Okay? I'm telling everybody that this didn't happen. And anybody who says it does, they will be sued in court to. With an, in an inch of the money that they, they have. Okay?

Maureen Callahan (17:25)

Yes, I would.

Mark Bowden (17:26)

Yeah.

Maureen Callahan (17:27)

Yes. And in his tone as well. You know what this really reminds me of, Mark? The Sean Diddy Combs self recorded video after the Cassie video was published by cnn. And it's like the, the tone of the voice was like, yeah, you know, I've done some bad things. Again, it wasn't anger at being accused of being a wife beater. It was just like, I just, I'm just looking to save my reputation here and can't we all just like agree to disagree?

Mark Bowden (17:52)

Yeah, it's all too considered. All too considered. Also notice the gestures as well. When somebody's angry, they'll tend to come up here to what I call the passion plane. They'll tend to be up in their chest area. He's a little bit lower. He's purposely being considered. He wants to come across as authentic, truthful, calm, assertive. But again, still oblique with the head. There's a mismatch there. I don't like the look of this at all.

Maureen Callahan (18:17)

I agree with you completely. Now onto a bombshell story that broke this week. The Beckham family feud. Brooklyn Beckham taking to Instagram to disown his family and to say that they've just been mean, mean, mean, mean, mean to his wife, Nicola. We pulled a couple of just incredible body language examples from Red Carpets. Oh, this is so awkward. This is Victoria and Nicola and then Nicola in between Victoria and Brooklyn, who is now waving. It seems, other members of the family in. I can't tell. Mark, what do you make of this? Okay, now they're mirroring their body language.

Mark Bowden (19:02)

I love this. I love this because this is so. This is. This is Victoria Beckham's. Her son's wife. Is that. Is that accurate?

Maureen Callahan (19:11)

Yes, that's Brooklyn's wife.

Mark Bowden (19:12)

Okay, so this is son's wife as handbag. So it's a satchel. As over the shoulder luggage device.

Maureen Callahan (19:23)

You're so right.

Mark Bowden (19:25)

She's literally like, look at what I've got hanging over my shoulder here. It's one of the things I would call a trophy signal. We often find it with people who will, you know, they'll be photographed with somebody and they'll put their hands around their neck, or they'll put their hand right around their neck. It's like, look what I. This is an ownership signal. I can quite understand why there may have been some issues within the family. Cause this is not great behavior when photographed.

Maureen Callahan (19:58)

I would say no. And what strikes me too is the way Victoria is clutching Nicola's wrist. You know, it feels very. I am in control here. And when I choose to let you go, I mean, what a metaphor. When I choose to let you go, you'll be gone. I'm just. I'm dragging you around right now.

Mark Bowden (20:18)

Right. You'll just fall on the. On the pavement behind me and I'll just walk on.

Maureen Callahan (20:22)

Exactly.

Tim McKay (20:23)

Yeah.

Mark Bowden (20:23)

You're not a decent. You're not a decent enough handbag that I would actually, you know, clutch you here. I'm gonna kind of hold on to the tips of your fingers. And if you slip away. Well, whatever.

Maureen Callahan (20:37)

And even the pose, you know, Victoria's basically got her back to Nicola and she's not making any eye contact with her. You know, it's sort of like you're an afterthought in terms of accessories. Really.

Mark Bowden (20:48)

Yeah, absolutely. I would check out how she holds a Birkin bag and then check out how she's holding her daughter in law.

Maureen Callahan (20:57)

Yeah, she probably carries the Birkin with a lot more consideration and carefulness.

Mark Bowden (21:02)

Yeah, a lot more consideration, I would think. Yeah.

Maureen Callahan (21:04)

Yes. Okay. Here's to another one, which is incredible. Look at. Would you look at this?

Tim McKay (21:10)

Yeah.

Maureen Callahan (21:12)

Victoria is an all white and she's refusing to even acknowledge Brooklyn or Nicola. Brooklyn is again in the middle, but her body is fully torqued away. And Brooklyn's trying, it seems, and she keeps Moving herself.

Mark Bowden (21:27)

Yeah, she doesn't want to be there. She doesn't want to be. She doesn't want to be there anymore. I can see from the way that she's breathing that she's trying to hold back a very strong emotion. I think she's probably been crying.

Maureen Callahan (21:43)

Victoria.

Mark Bowden (21:44)

No, no, Nicola. Yeah, I think Nicola's probably been crying or she's about to because she's trying, you see in her breath. She's trying to hold that.

Maureen Callahan (21:53)

Oh, I missed that. My eyes were all on Victoria.

Mark Bowden (21:57)

Yeah, she doesn't want to be there at all. Victoria's son is adapting and trying to soothe himself around that. He knows that it's not good what's going on here. You know, she does manage a smile at the end. The daughter in law does manage a smile at the end when her name is called. I think she's probably feeling very much sidelined by this family. I mean, easy to happen. I mean, Victoria Beckham and Beckham himself, one of the most famous couples in the world, you know, outside of, you know, maybe one other that we'll maybe look at a little bit later. But, you know, one of the. One of the most famous couples in the world. It would be easy not to be the center of attention there. So I can quite see how if you want to be center of attention, your chances around the Beckhams is about zero. It's not gonna happen. I think she's very upset in this situation. I can understand if there's a breakup on the way.

Maureen Callahan (23:02)

Yeah, no, it seems it's a complete freezing out by Victoria. And again, I find her choice of wardrobe that evening very interesting. I'm all in white. I'm the pure one here. I'm the innocent one here. It's this harlot over here in red and black who's the problem. Okay. Speaking of some of the most famous couples in the world, Megan and Harry. Megan decided to open 2026 by posting this fully spontaneous video to Instagram of her and her husband happier than ever. Here they are in shorts and barefoot, dancing on their lawn and just. I mean, and then this is also followed by or preceded by. She runs into frame. He's just standing there and she runs to him and leaps into his arm. Oh, here she does it. They finish the dance. She leaps into his arms and wraps her legs around him.

Tim McKay (24:03)

Mark.

Mark Bowden (24:05)

Fully spontaneous, including the jump cuts that have been edited into their very spontaneous jump cuts. Well, look, obviously this is, this is highly curated. Although when I did watch the video, it seemed to suggest that the Photographer. The videographer of this was the four year old daughter.

Maureen Callahan (24:22)

Oh, she's extremely proficient with an editing bay mark.

Mark Bowden (24:26)

Very good. Very lovely jump cuts. Yeah, look. And it's always great to have the context around this because the wording around this is when 2026 feels just like 2016. You had to be there. It says, well, we are there. We're in 2026 right now. And you've given us this imagery. So we're kind of there. You're kind of saying, hey, you had to be there in our lives. No, we're there right now because you're showing us this. It's an odd timeline because 2016, I don't think the two of them were even together. I may have.

Maureen Callahan (24:57)

Oh, no, there she. She shows they were. They were dating, I think, at the time. And she shows a photo, a still photo of them. I think they're in Botswana. And so. But what strikes me about this photo is like they're not. It's so awkward. It looks awkward to me. Like he's holding her awkwardly. She's trying to kind of nuzzle into him. But she's also seems far too aware of the camera. They don't seem like they actually know each other very well.

Mark Bowden (25:26)

Yeah, look, it's all very odd. It's all very curated. I don't think it has ever the effect that they hope it's going to have. The movement, the dancing that they're doing is really quite contrived, artificial. I would say it reminds me rather of kind of a retired couple doing, you know, a Ciroc class in the town square somewhere.

Maureen Callahan (25:51)

It reminds me of Bill and Hillary Clinton after the Lewinsky scandal and a paparazzo just happened to photograph them in their bathing suits dancing cheek to cheek on a desert island with nobody else around and no music. It's totally natural.

Mark Bowden (26:07)

Yeah, I think. I think it's meant to kind of fill the viewer with romance and it really doesn't achieve that. And, you know, if I were advising them, I would be going, look, you've really got to catch those authentic moments and not try and set them up. And it's so hard to do. It's almost impossible to do it. They're trying to do something which is gonna be impossible for them, but let's keep watching.

Maureen Callahan (26:36)

Did we talk about. Was it you and I talked about the basement video. You talking about capturing those authentic moments and Harry was like, what's happening? Get away from me.

Mark Bowden (26:47)

Yeah, well, it's exactly that. It's impossible for them to capture those Authentic moments. Because it has to be an accident. It has to be somebody else capturing it. You can't set these things up. And most, if not all of the media they produce is utterly contrived and set up. And they don't have the ability, technique and performance to be able to do that really well, like a great entertainer would be able to do. A great star would be able to do that. They're not great entertainers. They're not great stars by any stretch of the imagination.

Maureen Callahan (27:23)

Oh, Mark, that is poetry to my ears. What a way to put it. It's so nervy. They are not stars. They are not. They so badly want to be like stars. Auto generated, not by accident of birth or by deliberation of marriage. Okay, Speaking of a fading star, Hoda Kotb, who we in America know all too well, she has fallen off the cliff of real of morning American morning television. And now she's trying to get this Joy 101 app YouTube channel going. So she ambushes. To me, it looks like an ambush, her former Today show colleague, who's successful, doing really well, popular in America, Savannah Guthrie. Savannah has to get in a car every morning at 4am to get to work. Okay, and here comes Hoda jumping in to try to get some YouTube subscribers off the back of Savannah. And by the way, Hoda's YouTube channel has less than 2K subscribers subscribers. And this video, within about 24 hours of posting, had fewer than 7,000 views. It is. To call it anemic would be kind. Here we go. Why are you here right now? Why did I pick you up at the crack of dawn to drive you to work? Well, I'm glad you did, but why? What strikes you about the body language in the back of that suv, Mark?

Mark Bowden (28:40)

Well, what's great watching this is that Hoda is really kind of lent in on this. So she's massively keen on this. Massively keen. My guess is that Savannah Guthrie has signed up to this in some kind of way. But you can see with that kind of unfinished line of energy in her hand that she's not fully engaged in this idea. You know, the one is really into this and has got the energy for it. The other is like, why is this? Why is this?

Maureen Callahan (29:12)

Why are you here? She literally says, why are you here? With a laugh. But, like, she means it. And I agree with you. I found that the placement of Savannah's arm and she's in black, Hoda's in white. The placement of the arm is quite distancing. Like, you forced Me into this. This feels like a forced experiment, but I'm placing an arm here. Like you're not getting too close to me. I am putting distance here. We're gonna look at a second clip from behind the back of that suv. This hostage situation ongoing. Here we go. Because, A, I love you, B, this is a little joy ride. Okay, well, if you're in the car, it's joy. I gotta tell you, normally at this hour, joy is a scarce supply. I found the definitive period that Savannah put on the end of that sentence. Joy is in scarce supply.

Mark Bowden (30:01)

Yeah, joyride.

Maureen Callahan (30:02)

Very telling.

Mark Bowden (30:03)

Joyride. Listen, they are both of them incredibly skeptical, I would suggest, about what's going on here. There's this joyride idea with the inverted commas around it. There's the distancing between the two. There's the. You know, the head is distant away from. I know, I know. One of them has a. Has a vocal problem at the moment.

Maureen Callahan (30:26)

Savannah does.

Mark Bowden (30:27)

Yeah, yeah, Savannah has a vocal problem at the moment. It's interesting later on in this clip, her voice really frees up when she starts talking about her kids. There's some really true emotion about the birth of her kids and. And she gets onto a subject matter there that she's actually really comfortable with. But I think you can see the stress in the voice here. You can hear the stress in the voice around this relationship that's going on here. I don't think either of them quite know why this idea is going on. Both of them have been. And one of them is on. On a major TV network. I think the movement from that to 2000 subscribers on a. On a YouTube show is not making a great deal of sense to either of them. Both are skeptical as to how, how and why this will work.

Maureen Callahan (31:20)

So you think that even Hoda, who ostensibly this was her idea, this was her brainchild. She was going to form a multi pronged business off of. Off of merchandising joy. How you do that, no one knows, you know, but you're saying that in the back of that car with. With Toda herself inverting the joyride, that she herself knows that this is kind of like a joke, like it's kind of an epic fail.

Mark Bowden (31:42)

Deep down, I think she is unsure that this will actually work. I believe, look, somebody who's been a broadcaster at the top levels of it for that long, just like, you know, you are right now, you're very relaxed in what you're doing. If you then go to do something else and you're not showing the same relaxation that you have now. I know you're under stress and pressure. I know you're not in your comfort zone right now. Okay, she's not in a comfort zone right now. So. So she's not quite at peace as to whether this is going to work or not. Now. Maybe it will. Maybe, Maybe. Maybe it will.

Tim McKay (32:21)

Maybe it'll.

Maureen Callahan (32:22)

You're a nice guy. Well, I mean, you know, it's not going to work. It's failing. Okay, to our final, final recidivist, Oprah Winfrey. Now, the nerve for since about October, has been on an active manhunt for Stedman Graham, who we have not seen in years. So we. We pulled up Marlena, found this one. This is from the e. Red carpet in 2019. Oprah is being asked about Stedman and Gail and who she goes to for the best advice. Here we go. I was going to ask you later who you go to most often for advice. How do you choose between Ste and Gail? But I think this is a good time to just ask that follow up. How do I choose between Steadman and Gail? It depends on what it is. You know, Stedman is actually the stabilizer.

Mark Bowden (33:09)

Okay. So interesting. She has to look away for this. She has to look away for this and then slowly bring herself back. Back as she starts to put the answer to this question together. Okay, so this is potentially not a question that she was expecting. She doesn't have a set answer for this one. She has to go to get an answer, and she has to slowly bring herself back with a lot of words beforehand. You know, I don't know. Yeah, she's trying to. Constructing. What's my answer going to be for this one? And she never really gets full eye contact with the interviewer when giving this answer. So, look, interesting question from the interviewer because it's probably one she was not expecting to have to give an answer to. She doesn't have one ready. Well, why. Why doesn't she have one ready on this?

Maureen Callahan (34:01)

Steadman's dead. She and Gail killed him. He's buried somewhere on the Maui estate. But you know what I also love about that, and that's from 2019. What struck me, too, is the tightness of her laughter. It's almost like her jaw is like she's. It's so tight because she's so. She can't believe she's been ambushed with this question. And she's trying to make it funny to conceal her anger and rage at this.

Mark Bowden (34:27)

Yeah. And look how. Listen, I'm glad you mentioned that. Listen how the laughter goes up at the end. Okay. Goes pitching up. Which means the laughter isn't necessarily a release of lots of tension. And then she'd give her answer. Hey, you know, really, really funny, really funny question. Releasing the tension around that. Here's my answer to this. I've got my answer Ready? No, the laughter has even more tension in it as she has to look away and construct the answer. So lots of tension around.

Maureen Callahan (34:57)

Mark, that observation is so incredibly insightful because as you're talking, I'm thinking to myself, you're right, laughter is a release of tension or it's pure. It's a pure response to something really funny. And doesn't real laughter actually cascade down?

Mark Bowden (35:13)

Yeah, yeah, it's a full release. You release all the air in your lungs and you have to take in another breath if you want to laugh some more. This one doesn't release fully. It builds more tension. So it's a contrived laugh in many ways.

Maureen Callahan (35:30)

Oh, you are such a genius. Okay, our final, final clip. This is Oprah talking about. This is very recent. So she's chilling her book about, you know, losing weight, even though you could. It's a one sentence thing. Oprah's on the jab. That's it. Take the jab if you want to look like her. Okay. So here she is talking about Steadman. She's being asked by Jenna Bush Hager. I think people who work on the Today show are secretly watching the nerve. That is what I have on reliable intel from inside 30 Rock. She, Oprah is asked directly about Stedman on Jenna and Chanel. Here we go. A partner for a long time. Yes. After 20 years, you can't say, he's my boyfriend. That's my boy. You would have never thought about that.

Mark Bowden (36:10)

Yeah, he's my boyfriend.

Maureen Callahan (36:11)

So you just refer to him as your partner. So once you get to a certain.

Mark Bowden (36:13)

Age, he's my boyfriend.

Maureen Callahan (36:17)

Like a life partner.

Mark Bowden (36:20)

Interesting. So look, the hands go down. She does a big suppressor gesture around this. So she's trying to lay down the law on this somewhat or stop this line of questioning or take authority here. So she wants to be in charge of this area. And then she, from the interviewer, she quickly takes it out to the audience or to the crew or whoever else is out there, wherever she thinks she can contact the public better and move this message more out to the public rather than think through the avatar of the interviewer there. So she wants this message to be controlled and she wants this one to go directly out to the public in some way and not have any intermediary of the media between her message and the viewer. That's what I take from that. What did you see there?

Maureen Callahan (37:11)

Well, to pick up on exactly what you're saying, I agree with you. And I also think that tactic is to sort of diffuse the question. Like to make it diffuse. Not to diffuse like a bomb, but D I F F U S E to sort of make it like aerosolized. Right. And I'm going to sprinkle this out over the entire set because to answer that question to Jenna, one on one, it's too personal now. Now we're having a. Even if we don't know each other very well, we're looking at each other. We're talking to each other. You asked me about someone who is supposed to be the primary person in my life. This is a personal exchange now. Right? What do you call your, like, she's not doing it. She refuses to engage. That's what I took.

Mark Bowden (37:48)

Great, great call on that. I like that.

Maureen Callahan (37:50)

Well, Mark, we love having you. We love having you so much. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on these recidivists at the Nerve. And if you haven't already, check out mark on YouTube. This is the behavior panel. Must subscribe. Mark Bowden's own page on YouTube. Must subscribe. He is a genius.

Mark Bowden (38:11)

Thank you so much. Great to see you.

Maureen Callahan (38:13)

Thank you. Great to see you, Mark. Coming up, we have. We are going around and around and around with the offenders this week. An update, a tease to the people we are covering next week, the evildoers. And we have a very heartfelt, genuine. I truly mean this. In memoriam to Giant that we just lost. Who we just lost, I should say. Excuse me. This week. We will be back in a minute. Are you wrestling with bras that dig in? Shapewear that rolls down constantly or underwires that feel like medieval torture? Introducing honeylove, a brand designed by people who actually wear bras. Women. Their crossover contour bra is wireless, but actually lifts and supports. No constant adjusting and no digging. Their cloud embrace sold out in days for a reason. It's lightweight, yet provides shaping support that's comfortable. Imagine you can wear it daily under everything from blazers to dresses. And their shapewear offers targeted compression that smooths without squeezing you like a sausage. Try Honey Love and take advantage too with our exclusive link to save 20% off honey love@honeylove.com nerve. So treat yourself to the most advanced bras and shapewear on the market at a fantastic price. Use our exclusive link to save 20% off honeylove@honeylove.com nerve that's honeylove.com nerve and after you check out, they're going to ask where you heard about them. Please support our show. Tell them you're a troublemaker and that the nerve sent you. Experience the new standard in comfort and support with Honey Love. ABC's David Muir, the most trusted anchor in America. The most watched anchor in America. Thank you for making world News Tonight with David Muir, the number one newscast in America. Most trusted, most watched David Muir on abc. Flowers die in three days. Matching underwear from meundies. That's a gift that lasts. Meundies creates matching prints for couples and friends. Same adorable designs and different cuts for each of you. All made from their signature ultramodal fabric that feels impossibly soft. With nine reviews, MeUndies matching prints are the perfect gift. Valentine's Day is February 14th, so don't wait. Get exclusive deals up to 50% off@meundies.com SXM code sxm that's meundies.com sxm code sxm we are back. Now, before we get into your feedback, the best part of any nerve, I wanted to take a moment to note the passing of the iconic designer Valentino, who died this week at age 93. Valentino. With his passing goes a breed that has now fully vanished. It's extinct. And that is the visionary designer who shapes the way women dress, the way women think about themselves, who is an advocate for, in an intellectual, philosophical, emotional way, beauty and glamour. I just want to read a little bit about him. He was actually the, this is the front page of the New York Times style section on Thursday, full page photo of him. And again, these are the kinds of designers who they were their own branding. You know, think of a Karl Lagerfeld, think of an Armani who just died last year. We did a very similar, we made a similar observation rather when he passed away that, you know, they're disappearing and we will not see the likes of them again. Fashion is now, you know, it's corporations, it's companies, it's the LVMHs of the world. And they just buy these houses up and they shuffle designers around and they're disposable, they're interchangeable. And they are not meant to ever exceed in stature the brand itself. They are guns for hire. That's it. Valentino, his funeral is going to be held today in Rome. He was in state. He was lying in state for two days at his company headquarters. I mean, it goes to show you, when a nation stops and recognizes, as Italy has, the passing of someone like this who contributed so much to the culture. He dressed in Hollywood. He dressed Elizabeth Taylor, Sophia Loren, Audrey Hepburn, until she then began working with Givenchy. And those two were like this. He designed Jacqueline Kennedy's wedding dress when she remarried in 1968, when she remarried Aristotle Onassis and scandalized the world. And I write about this in Ask not, you know, what she chose to wear as her bridal gown. And it was a Valentino. It was slightly above the knee dress with a white bow in her hair. And it was a deliberate choice. I write that she kind of looked like a wayward communicant, like a wayward Catholic girl, because she'd been denounced by the Pope. He said, oh, and he also at the Oscars, he dressed. Julia Roberts wore a vintage Valentino, the year she won for Erin Brockovich. Everyone knew she was going to win. And if you look at that dress, it is one of a kind. Cate Blanchett wore Valentino when she won her Oscar, I believe, for the Aviator. She was in a really beautiful butter gown with like this crimson sash. And it was just stunning. He said in 2007, he's like Karl Lagerfeld in this way, like the bitchiest kind of snob that you kind of really do want to hear from. When a culture gets just too sloppy. He said, I only like beautiful things. I love that. Who doesn't love beautiful things? He also said this in 2007, and this is before COVID made it acceptable as. As remains to really my own shock and horror. And I'm sure many of you troublemakers feel the same way. The idea that you can leave your house in pajamas to go do any in ratty, dirty, filthy pajamas in the middle of the day, to go do an errand run at CVS or to show up at the airport. You know, I think that that kind of slovenliness, it can be deleterious to a culture at large. It shows no respect for anything or anyone, least of all oneself. In 2007, again, pre Covid, Valentino said this. When I see somebody, unfortunately, and unfortunately she's relaxed and running around in jogging trousers and without any makeup. I feel very sorry, because we are born to show ourselves, always at our best. Rest in peace. Valentino, born May 11, 1932. Imagine the things this man saw, and he touched all of us. And his legacy will be a long one. Now to the Oscars. Related to the Oscars Timothy Shyamalama Ding Dong got his Oscar nod for Marty Supreme. I have an email to read about that. It's a very critical one of me. You guys are gonna love it. And so is Ethan Hawke, okay? And I'm gonna make it the nerves mission to just push into the bloodstream to anyone in a position to vote for best actor. Ethan Hawke deserves it. Okay? Let's get real. Timothy is the bought and paid for puppet of one Kris Jenner. And you know, it seems as though she has been buying up all of the awards. And Timothy sat on a balcony recently and said, hey, give it to me because I'm producing some top level shit. What about Ethan Hawke, who's been working forever and whose work in Blue Moon is sublime? Okay? That is real acting. We will be banging this drum from now until the Oscars. I mean, I know voting obviously ends before we even see the Oscars, but this cannot stand anymore. The Oscars need to stand for something, okay? And it can't just be minting a runt of the litter like this, okay? Give it to Ethan Hawke, who has earned it well and truly. Now on to Ashton Kutcher. Again, this is going to be a long thread that we're going to keep pulling at the nerve because I fucking hate this guy, okay? And I want bad things for him because I think he's a bad guy and I think he's a dark force in the culture and he's got it coming. He's been skating way too effing long. This gem, this gem was suggested by a troublemaker in the Nerves YouTube comment section, which is so rich. You guys are so effing smart and you know so much that I. I'm not even aware of. This is Dave chappelle from a 2006. This is Def Comedy Jam in 2006. And you know, this is old because, like most deaf is introducing him and you know, most stuff is kind of like falling off a cliff. But anyway, this is Dave Chappelle reading an original poem on Def Comedy Jam. It's a little bit long, but just stay with it because you know everything with Chappelle's delivery, his rhythm, the way he'll like pause and look at the crowd. So if you're only listening, just be. Just know this was a deliberately edited piece for you guys. Here is Dave reading his original poem that he called Fuck Ashton Kutcher. Here we go.

Mark Bowden (48:23)

His first poem is called Fuck Ashton Kutcher. Fuck Ashton Kutcher, the Public Image Butcher. His shows are hit and I can't stand that Shit, I don't even know him and I hate his guts. If he punks me, I won't sign the release because whenever he punks black people, it always involves the police. He be having all them white folks at home rolling brandy.

Maureen Callahan (49:03)

Did you know that that jewelry was stolen?

Mark Bowden (49:09)

But hey, I'm a star. Well, stop shining and get your ass out that.

Maureen Callahan (49:24)

Now.

Mark Bowden (49:24)

He wouldn't like it if me and my friends just before dawn, busted his house with some ski masks on, put a gun in his mouth and turned on the lights. And just when he screams out, yell out, sigh. Can you sign this release? I want to entertain people with your fear, you punk bitch. Thank you.

Maureen Callahan (49:53)

Bravo, Dave Chappelle. It stands as true today as it did back in 2006. Also, I pulled this out of the New York Times because I wanted to make sure to mention it to you guys. John McWhorter, the prominent black linguist, who I adore. I love this guy.

Tim McKay (50:11)

He.

Maureen Callahan (50:12)

He wrote an op ed for the New York Times and it's called When Four Letter Words Are the Mature Option. And he is defending the use of fuck around. And find out that it's coming basically from the top down, you know, from like this current administration down. And again, we're apolitical here at the Nerve, but he's talking about the shock and the pearl clutching that we've been hearing from, you know, like the word fuck is being used. And he wrote the most eloquent column as to why it's great as to why and the origins of the word fuck and how the word fuck was actually never really considered obscene to begin with, and how and why it was that we came to be. To consider certain words and certain and their connotations or their definitions to be obscene. And it's so rich landing in the New York Times because what bugs me so much about the new. I mean, many things, but they're so precious. And whenever they interview somebody, I mean, it's 20, 26. Get with it. You know, they'll be like. Let's say they're. Let's say they're interviewing Dave Chappelle and they'll be like. And here, Mr. Chappelle, you know, they're honorifics. They're so stuck on those two. Mr. Chappelle used an expletive for emphasis. You know, they'll never. They'll never just run the quote like Dave Chappelle said, fuck Ashton Kutcher. Just get with it, New York Times. Join the rest of us grownups over here and let people curse and Acknowledge that it happens. Okay, next week I'm reading your emails. Next, I'm calming down. Okay, next week we are going to cover in detail what's going on with the Beckhams. In the meantime, I columned on this over at the Daily Mail yesterday or no, Wednesday. Sorry, it's still there if you want to see it. And Blake Lively and Taylor Swift and all of the text messages and emails that have come out going to the dissolution of their friendship and who is plotting what against. Justin Baldoni And Blake's desperate messages to her quote unquote celebrity friends begging them to take a look at the first cut of her shitty movie. And a voice memo that she left for Ben Affleck in which she began by saying, hey, Ben, it's Blake. Don't hang up. It's going to be great. It's going to be great. Don't read ahead too much or read ahead. Or maybe do read ahead. And so then we'll all be up to speed anyway. Okay? Also, not for nothing, but Blake Lively allegedly reportedly had an affair with Ben Affleck while he was directing her in the town. And so I found that pretty ballsy of her because he was remarried at the time. To Jennifer Lopez. Just saying. Okay. Anyway, now to your email. This is the subject line. Danny Masterson's contribution to the 911 first responders. This was a really edifying email. Thank you, troublemaker Sarah, Maureen and team. Watching your story about Ashton Kutcher tonight. Nerve at night. I wanted to share what Danny Masterson's actual philanthropy involved regarding the 911 first responders, which Ashton Kutcher referred to in his letter to the judge, begging the judge to really spare Danny for despite being convicted of violently raping two women, one at gunpoint, he implemented a drive. This is Danny, where he raised funds for them to be subjected. The first responders. The 911 first responders to be subjected to what is called the purification rundown in Scientology. So this is not philanthropy. If this troublemaker is correct, it's a very common thing for Scientologists to do, but it is very unhealthy. It involves taking dangerous amounts of niacin and sitting in a sauna for hours. Doing so most likely put those first responders health in more jeopardy than being at ground zero. And also the money he raised went to Scientology. These are garbage, people. And some of you also made sure to point out to me that Ashton Kutcher has allegedly said that he first met Danny Masterson when Ashton was 20 years old. Which would mean that Ashton wasn't 19 as he has claimed, but 20 when he made a bet with Danny as to who would be the first to ram their tongue down Mila Kunis throat when Mila kunis was only 14 on the set of that fucking 70s show. Fucking kidding me. Wednesday's Nerve at Night Comment Troublemaker Kelly from New Jersey as I sit drinking my morning coffee. Oh, love it out of your nerve mug. I had to write to bring up a point not mentioned in last night's Nerve. And you are correct, Troublemaker Kelly. I was remiss. The common thread between Kutcher, Demi, Mila, Danny and Bijou Phillips is Scientology. And if I recall correctly, I think Demi and Ashton were in fact married in a Scientology ceremony. Right? I think they were married by a Scientologist. I could be wrong. Okay, Ashton fucking co Star is the subject header. I love you Troublemaker Danette. That's some real ingenuity there. Ashton and his wife were on a show talking about how infrequently they bathe their children. They had some kind of stupid pits, bits, holes, inanity. That creeped me out. Sounds about right. Hi Maureen, Vis a vis Diddy. Look into Al B. Sure as well. There are also allegations that Diddy also put Al B. Sure into a coma. Allegedly. Reportedly. Thankfully Al got better. He has alluded that it was Diddy the Nerve Snow Globe hi Maureen. Last Friday when you teased the weekend Mini and this weekend's Mini, we got a recidivist we haven't heard from in a while. It's going to be a banger. You said it would be a lo fi nerve, kind of like a snow globe. I can just imagine that in the merch store. So funny. Troublemaker Susan in Texas we were talking about this around Christmas time last year and we're thinking about trying to get it done for Christmas time this year. A beautifully crafted globe. This is so funny. With a tiny Maureen and signature pearls standing outside the woodshed, the wood chipper and stump grinder in the periphery. I would amend that to include me with an ax that's got blood dripping off of it. And then perhaps Rob, Bill and Tim lurking about as well. It would be fabulous. I think so too. This email the header is Maureen Kalamala Ding Dong. I think that this troublemaker is actually Timothy. I could be wrong. Just finished Marty Supreme. Incredible movie. I am shaking really fu Maureen Callahan and all the critics that panned Marty supreme into the wood chipper. Maureen TC put in a great performance. He deserves an Academy Award in all caps. A must see I mean, if you say so. I'm not going to the theater to see that shit. Okay, GLP1 discussions. This is a serious one. And this is from a troublemaker who had to have bariatric. Bariatric, excuse me. Surgery due to a rare but treatable stomach cancer. This troublemaker knows where of she speaks. And she had multiple surgeries at the best hospitals by the best surgeons in New York City. She says this is to. This is to Oprah and her merching and pushing of GLP1s in the culture. Okay. And how we're not really having nuanced conversations about what these drugs do and the consequences before any bariatric. Bariatric surgery. I don't know why I'm stuck on that. Patients were required to lose at least 20 pounds through diet and exercise. Effort and commitment were mandatory. Some patients had to lose even more depending on body fat. In other words, there were no shortcuts. Ironically, now this troublemaker's stomach was basically taken apart and put back together. And the result, she says, I dropped from a healthy 125-99lbs in under 8 months. I am 5:2 and felt like shit constantly. The diagnosis was gastroparesis or delayed gastric emptying, which, coincidentally, you've discussed as a side effect of GLP1 medications. Reduced gastric motility is a known effect of GLP1 drugs. Essentially, your stomach falls asleep due to either being operated on a bunch of times or by the effects of GLP1s symptoms range from feeling full, two, persistent nausea, vomiting, which is violent. It's violent to vomit. There's a reason everybody tries to suppress that. Pancreatitis and other complications. Even if the GLP1 medication is stopped and gastroparesis improves, there's no guarantee that the damage isn't permanent. The point is that bariatric surgery requires serious commitment and lifelong nutritional and psychological counseling. Surgery alone doesn't fix the problem. I highly doubt Oprah went through this level of soul searching before being given injections for her disease. And I doubt counseling patients is part of the GLP1 prescribing protocol you've mentioned. Oprah spent three days hospitalized for undisclosed reasons last year, and I'd bet it involved either a severe gastroparesis flare pancreatitis or something. Jillian, Michael suggested on your show a bezoar. That's spelled B E Z O A R, but it's pronounced bezoar, where food sits in the stomach for so long it turns into a literal rock. These cause excruciating pain and are treated with massive laxatives or if you're unlucky, surgical extraction. And as Jillian reminded us, or actually taught us. I didn't know this. If you're on a GLP1 and you have to have surgery to remove the lump of food that has been stuck in your stomach because your stomach is now paralyzed because of these GLP1s, guess what? You gotta go off that GLP1 for at least a month because you can't go under anesthesia because you might aspirate to death. That's Oprah shoving this shit in America's faces. Like, it's like, take your vitamin B pill and your. And your GLP1 pill. Oh, my God. Marlena snuck this in. Marlena. Okay, I wasn't expecting this. This last email comes to us from an anonymous troublemaker. Dear Maureen, Bill maher celebrated his 70th birthday this week. Dying to know, did you furlough him from the woodshed for the day? I don't know. Ask Marlena. She. Marlena, she probably snuck out behind my back, grabbed the key, let him out. I don't know what those two got up to together. I can only hope they, you know. Please, please. I hope Marlena you at least took the blue light and the luminol. Be safe out there now. A quick reminder, keep your feedback coming. Email me at maureenvilmakeremedia.com or DM me on Instagram at Maureen Callahan, writer, or at the Nerve Show. And remember, subscribe to the Nerves substack. That is our weekly email. All you do is go to thenerveshow.com you will see a prompt. Would you like our email in your inbox every Friday afternoon? Put your email in. That's it. You're done. If you want to subscribe for bonus content, it's like five bucks a month. I think it's like nothing. And it's a lot of fun. And we are going to include this week definitely Tim, the celebrity makeup artist who is coming up next and is going to teach us all how to do a flawless eye, a flawless cat eye for day and night. And he's going to give us all of his products, his favorite products. And we are possibly going to hear from one of the preeminent troublemakers of our time. So go sign up for our substack@thenerveshow.com and up next, part one of our makeup tutorial with none other than Tim McKay. We will see you in a minute. If you are among the 30% of Americans who wake up with facial pain, toothaches or a tight jaw from grinding your teeth at night. Give Remy a try. Their custom night guards are clinically tested and FDA cleared to prevent teeth grinding, to reduce jaw tension and facial muscle strain, and to improve sleep quality. Here is what is great about Remy. The impression kit arrives at your door. No doctor's appointments. You apply two molds to your teeth. Takes about 10 minutes to set, and then you mail it back. Two weeks later, your custom guard will arrive at your door. It is that simple. And best of all, Remy offers the same quality night guard you'd get from your dentist, but it costs 80% less. If you are ready to give Remy a try, use code nerve for 50 off your custom night guard at shop r e m I.com nerve that's shopremy.com nerv code nerve. And thank you to Remy for sponsoring this episode. ABC's David Muir, the most trusted anchor in America. The most watched anchor in America. Thank you for making World News 10 Night with David Muir the number one newscast in America. Most trusted, most watched David Muir on abc. All white chicken meat breaded in tortilla chips. They're Taco Bell's crispy chicken nuggets. Pretty different than the nuggets you're used to. Haters will say that's not the classic. Nugget haters are right. Haters will love them anyways. Oh, and they come with Hidden Valley Ranch, another classic, but we mixed it up with Diablo. They can't hate that. I mean, they can, but they won't. Crispy chicken nuggets from Taco Bell, a brand new classic at participating US Taco Bell locations for a limited time only while supplies last. We are back. Now, you troublemakers have been asking and we at the Nerve have been wanting to do this for a while. And today's the day Tim McKay is going to give us all a makeup tutorial. And for those of you so straight guys who otherwise identify as mo bros out there who think this might be time to tune out, Tim and I are also going to talk some pop culture. We're going to talk about movies, tv, the pit, why he's having trouble latching onto it, my issues with the hair and makeup. We're going to talk the Oscar noms. So you know, and you might, you might actually learn something for, you know, the woman in your life, you know, maybe what to go get her over at Sephora or online if you don't want to be seen shopping at Sephora. Because I know you guys are all really manly men who enjoy Lots of hot heterosexual sex. So not to worry. Now, today, as I was getting ready for the show, Tim, we. We did. We did my makeup. We did my makeup, like, up to 85%, 90%. And we left one eye bare so that Tim could build this look on my eye from the ground up and show you all how he does what he does and how he works his magic. He's so smart and just so lovely. And so here we go. Look at my eyes, right? One eye is done. No, this eye is not done. The other eye is done. Tim is going to give us an eye makeup tutorial. How to get a really nice, like, winged cat eye using some really great. Some of my favorite, favorite eyeliner. And then how to get this very subtle, glittery, glowy, but clean eye that goes with a red lip. This will be the first in a series of tutorials if you guys like this as much as we do. And Tim and I are also going to shoot the breeze about all of the movies, TV that we've been watching. The Oscar noms just came out yesterday. We have a lot to say about all of that. So here we go. Tim, welcome as always.

Tim McKay (66:28)

I'm so excited.

Maureen Callahan (66:29)

We've been wanting to do this for so long, so. So here we go.

Tim McKay (66:32)

So we're gonna make this really easy. I mean, granted, it's different. Cause I'm doing it on you, not doing it on yourself. But always start when you're doing your eyeshadow. This is my absolute favorite eyeshadow primer. This is gonna make sure that your eyeshadow doesn't crease and it doesn't all, like, mesh together, especially if you wear eye creams in skincare. That's gonna break down eye makeup really, really fast.

Maureen Callahan (66:53)

Good to know.

Tim McKay (66:53)

So always start with an eye base. And this is my absolute favorite one. This is the P. Louise eyeshadow base. It comes with all different shades, so it's like you can get your perfect skin tone. And it creates an opaque layer. So that way you don't see veins, you don't see discoloration on the lid. You just see a nice nude base, and that's perfect. Look how huge this is. This is so cheap. I think this was, like 10 bucks. I don't even know, but it's amazing. It's from England.

Maureen Callahan (67:15)

We will be actually compiling a list for substack. So if you're not, you know, taking notes, you can just go on to our substack and you'll find everything that Tim using on me.

Tim McKay (67:28)

So this goes right on With a brush, you can use your finger, but you'll see that this gives just a really beautiful nude base. Oh, yeah. Maureen, I can give you a little mirror so you can take a little picture.

Maureen Callahan (67:37)

Oh, that's cute. Okay, great. Well, I trust you. You know how much I trust you.

Tim McKay (67:40)

Yeah.

Maureen Callahan (67:43)

And why. Why apply it with a brush and not your finger?

Tim McKay (67:46)

Just so that it gives a little bit more evened out coverage. I feel like wherever you place your finger, you get a little bit, like, most of the product goes in that spot. So with a brush, I can really diffuse that product out all over. And I'll even have you look down to the right so I can get right into this tear duct or over this way. Our left. Sorry, our left over here.

Maureen Callahan (68:04)

And how do you do that if you're applying on your own? Because it can be hard, like you're looking in the mirror, applying your makeup.

Tim McKay (68:09)

I think doing it on yourself. Pretend this is the mirror. I would say tilt your head back at yourself, and you can do your eyeshadow like this.

Maureen Callahan (68:16)

Oh. Close. Close your eye a little bit over.

Tim McKay (68:19)

There and get in the inside. And you can really, like, do the detail. But I would say it's better than closing your eye. Totally. Because then that scrunches up everything.

Maureen Callahan (68:26)

Yes.

Tim McKay (68:26)

You want to kind of, like, leave it stretched.

Maureen Callahan (68:28)

Okay, great.

Tim McKay (68:29)

Apply that way.

Maureen Callahan (68:30)

Great.

Tim McKay (68:31)

Now I'm gonna go in with some eyeshadows. This is a really easy look, but I think it's the eyeliner that makes the impact. Mm. So let's go in with some just some neutral base eyeshadows. This is just a normal cream matte color. This is gonna set the eyeshadow primer, and also just give us a nice nude base to work on.

Maureen Callahan (68:50)

Tim, when you're buying your eyeshadow, how do you know what formulation to buy? You're saying, this is creamy, but I know there's, you know, the Chanel quads that I love so much and that you love so much. They're baked. Like, what does that mean? And you're using tarte right now? Yes, on me. Okay.

Tim McKay (69:06)

I'm using tarte because they had an event where I got to actually make my own palette. So this is, like, a ton of shadows. Yeah, they had me come. It was so great. And I like a variety of matte and shimmers. And especially this is a great palette for when I do your makeup for tv, because matte is really good to take away complete shine and texture. And shimmer is gonna obviously bring out, whereas a baked shadow, like Chanel the ones I told you about, those are great for every day because that's gonna give you more of a skin texture. So matte might be a little too dry for every day. Shimmer might be a little too shimmery for every day. Whereas a baked shadow is gonna give you the nice. In between that satin finish where it's. Is it skin or is it just. Or is it makeup? Or is it the way the light's hitting her?

Maureen Callahan (69:44)

Interesting. And the baked to those Chanel quads, they last all day. Like, they really don't fade, they don't budge, they don't smear. They're incredible. Now, you use on me stuff that I would never think to use, that I never thought I could ever pull off. Like, you'll use, like, a sort of glimmery shadow mixed with, like, a matte. Let's say you have a special event, right? It's a big day for you. It's a wedding, it's a graduation, it's a birthday. How do you recommend women do their eyeshadow? Both to be, you know, everyone's recording on their iPhones for camera. For still photography, what do you want to do for a wedding?

Tim McKay (70:31)

You're asking.

Maureen Callahan (70:31)

Well, for, like, a special event, right, where you know you're going to be photographed, you need it, like, for every day, for real life, but you also need it. You need to photograph beautifully. Like, what do you recommend? Do you do a little bit extra typically?

Tim McKay (70:43)

Okay. So I would say for that situation, I always do a little bit extra makeup because you think about for photographs, you're gonna lose about 30% of the makeup you're wearing.

Maureen Callahan (70:51)

Oh, really?

Tim McKay (70:52)

That's like the good general rule. So I would say always go about 30% more than what you would normally wear for whenever you have, like, a special event or, you know, you'll be having photographs taken. I would always do about 30%. And I just want to explain what I'm doing here really quick because I'm using a particular brush when we're doing a crease like this. The first color that I did was a neutral, like, skin tone color. It's called a transition shade. So I did that first on Maureen. I'm gonna turn your head this way a little. You can see that was that first color I did. Close your eye. You can see there was a transition back and forth. This is gonna make everything in the crease blending a little bit easier. So we see that her eyelid stands out. But it's not gonna give us too dramatic of a crease like this dark color I'm adding now, I'm not gonna bring all the way in. I'm just leaving on the outer part of the eye so that when her eyes open, you see a little depth there. But you're not seeing a dark, smokey eye, because we don't want to compete too much with the red lip.

Maureen Callahan (71:46)

Right.

Tim McKay (71:47)

So I'm going back with a brush with no product on it. This is just a fluffy brush. This is called dry brushing, and this is what you do when you want to just diffuse everything. You just go blend over it with no product. And then to brighten everything up, my last step that I like to do is to go in with the shimmers, so I like to do the darker matte colors first. That way, when you're using shimmer, it doesn't get everywhere. You're not blending it all over the place with the other colors. You have the difference between the matte shadows there and then the shimmer that we're gonna pop right on top, and.

Maureen Callahan (72:17)

It feels like it's the center of my lid.

Tim McKay (72:19)

Yep. I start wherever you want the most impact is where you should place the brush. So I like to start right in the center so that when you blink, you have that nice pop right in the center of the eye, And I slowly diffuse it inwards. I'll have you look down to the left, and I can get right into that corner here. And then I'm going to actually open up another palette. This is a fun palette. This is makeup by Mario.

Maureen Callahan (72:44)

I love these palettes. They're so pretty.

Tim McKay (72:47)

This is, like, such an extreme palette. It's so much fun. But there's this one nude shimmer color in there that I love, so I always go back with the same brush. You can see I didn't use a ton of brushes either. I kept this really simple, and I'm just gonna pop this right in the center as well. And this just adds a little bit more brightness, a little bit more depth and dimension.

Maureen Callahan (73:06)

Tim, what's so good about the By Mario eyeshadow palettes that so many makeup artists love?

Tim McKay (73:11)

I think a lot of people like the size of them. They're really small and compact. Great for a kit. He has a whole other palette that's just matte shadow, matte neutrals, which is what we all need. And then we have a palette of shimmers. So it's really clever on his part that all you really need is two little, tiny one of these palettes, and you have everything you need. I have a Million zillion palettes at home. But I particularly like his shimmers. I feel like they're really, really beautiful.

Maureen Callahan (73:34)

I love them too. So let's talk a little TV while you're doing this, because I've been trying to get you to watch the Pit. And your mother was a nurse. Is a nurse. Was. Is.

Tim McKay (73:43)

So she was actually delivering babies in Rhode Island Hospital Women and Infants Hospital in Rhode island for her whole life, basically. So she worked there. Yeah. And she would work the 12 hour shifts, the night shifts.

Maureen Callahan (73:57)

Wow.

Tim McKay (73:57)

And so she. Yeah, she's. She was a single mom my whole life, and just like, hustling. Hustling. And she would work those 12 hour shifts and still bring me to school.

Maureen Callahan (74:07)

Amazing. So you were saying that part of you were wondering if part of the reason you can't get into the Pit is because you kind of lived it.

Tim McKay (74:15)

I guess just because I saw my mom come look up for you. I saw my mom coming home every day. She's in scrubs, and, like, I would, you know, sometimes ask her about it and hear about it, and it's just. It's so real for me that, like, it wasn't like I was traumatized. I wasn't like, I can't go back to that.

Maureen Callahan (74:30)

Right.

Tim McKay (74:30)

Not like that, but more so just the way that, like, it's just real. Like, I liked a little bit of escapism in my shows, so that's why I love a thriller, a murder mystery. The Pit was awesome. It's very well done. The special effects, the. Everything is beautiful in the show. It's just. It's a little too real. I mean, I like a little bit more escapism in my show.

Maureen Callahan (74:47)

Okay. Before we get back to the Pit.

Tim McKay (74:48)

Yes.

Maureen Callahan (74:48)

I have this at home, and I've been using it forever. This is the Bobbi brown black eyeliner long wear gel eyeliner. This is espresso ink.

Tim McKay (74:57)

It's actually espresso brown.

Maureen Callahan (74:58)

Oh, your pot's almost fully empty. Yeah, look at that.

Tim McKay (75:01)

I use this on her all the time. I love it.

Maureen Callahan (75:03)

I love it too. Talk to them about how you're going to, you know, draw this line on the lid.

Tim McKay (75:08)

So what I started with on the bottom, I like to start at the bottom first because I'm going to use that to cut, connect my top line. But I used the Charlotte Tilbury rock and coal brown eyeliner, Barbarella brown. I literally placed it in the outer corner and then used a brush to blend it in instead of taking the pencil all the way in. That's going to be just too dramatic. I literally just placed it there, and then I used the brush to blend it in. So you have a nice shadow under your eye now.

Maureen Callahan (75:30)

Oh, I like that.

Tim McKay (75:32)

Too dark. And then I'm going to actually have you now look down to the left so I can get that inner tear duct. And I like to use an angled brush with this. Because that angled brush, just by placing it, you get a nice line. So I'm gonna get right in here.

Maureen Callahan (75:47)

You know, you would think that this would be very hard to do, but I have found, and I'm an amateur. I'm just a lay person with the proper. You get the brush from Bobbi Brown with that gel eyeliner. Like, like, it's almost idiot proof.

Tim McKay (76:04)

The reason why I like it is exactly like. It's not a slip and slide liquid eyeliner.

Maureen Callahan (76:08)

Yes.

Tim McKay (76:08)

It's like it actually. You need to use your pressure to move it around so you're really in control. And what I like to do with our eyeliner look, because we have this beautiful red lip, is we're going to give a nice thick wing, which I really, really love to do. You can keep it thin and simple, like the way it is there that you see, I have it, but we're going to add it for a little bit extra drama. I'm going to show you how to really amp it up. So with your eye open, looking straight ahead at yourself, this is how you do it in the mirror.

Maureen Callahan (76:34)

Okay.

Tim McKay (76:35)

I'm gonna just take that angled brush and connect it to the bottom eyeliner that I have here.

Maureen Callahan (76:40)

Oh.

Tim McKay (76:43)

And draw out and leave it kind of like that to start with.

Maureen Callahan (76:46)

And so you can. This is the probably the easiest part of the eye makeup application because you can look at yourself straight on in the mirror as you're applying and know.

Tim McKay (76:54)

Exactly where that line is going to be so that you're not going out with it and hoping for the best when you get there.

Maureen Callahan (76:59)

Okay. Now I have to say these are my problems with the pit. And I wish you were watching because we talk about hair and makeup and how they go to the veracity of any given story. The head nurse played by Catherine Lanassa. I think she just won a couple of major awards for her performance. They're working in a low income part of Pittsburgh. It's an ER that is serving the poorest of the community. And I am sorry, but her hair is way too good, her blonde is way too expensive looking, and her haircut is just. It's too perfect. Am I right?

Tim McKay (77:42)

I don't know, because don't women that naturally have very, very blonde hair, don't they not have to work that hard to get that blonde?

Maureen Callahan (77:47)

That's not natural, Tim.

Tim McKay (77:49)

But do you think she's naturally a dark brunette?

Maureen Callahan (77:51)

I don't know what she is, but I'm telling you, someone who does that, like, goes to a colorist every time.

Mark Bowden (77:55)

You would know.

Tim McKay (77:56)

I mean, you would know it.

Maureen Callahan (77:57)

Like, to get really good blonde, you have to sit in a chair for, like, four to five hours and work with a mixologist who knows what they're doing, because you're damaging the hair. Like, to be this blonde, you're really killing your hair.

Tim McKay (78:10)

Yeah.

Maureen Callahan (78:11)

So it. And. And even, like, the shampoos that you have to buy and the conditioners, they're not cheap.

Tim McKay (78:17)

Yeah.

Maureen Callahan (78:17)

You know, so I'm just saying that. That. That rings false to me. And also, sorry, I'm distracting you.

Tim McKay (78:22)

I just need you to be still.

Maureen Callahan (78:23)

For a little bit. So worked up.

Tim McKay (78:24)

Over turn towards me just so I can actually really do the eyeliner. I probably can't do this. I can't cheat this.

Maureen Callahan (78:32)

All right, I'm being quiet. My other problem with the hair on the pit. This is how they telegraph that a young female, either intern or resident, is naive. Tim is naive. Or has a lot, like, a lot of hard lessons coming. They wear braids. And I don't know any woman or young girl in this day and age who plates her hair in braids, let alone to work in an er. Am I right?

Tim McKay (79:07)

Sorry, I just got glue all over my face.

Maureen Callahan (79:09)

Oh, Tim, what happened?

Tim McKay (79:11)

I just flicked this glue.

Maureen Callahan (79:13)

What kind of glue is that?

Tim McKay (79:15)

So this is duo. It's latex free black glue.

Maureen Callahan (79:18)

Oh, are we doing the portion that's fake eyelashes now?

Tim McKay (79:21)

Yes, we are.

Maureen Callahan (79:22)

Okay, Tim, I just need to take.

Tim McKay (79:23)

This off my forehead quick. Okay, so, yeah, now eyelashes time now.

Maureen Callahan (79:27)

And you. So this is also a thing with makeup artists. It depends who you get some in. Some like to do a full row, like an intact row. Some like to do Technical term. Thank you again. I'm just a layperson. Some like to do individuals. Tim likes to do individuals. Sometimes you'll hire a makeup artist, you know, whether you like. If you use one from, like, Glam Squad or whatever. And this is, like, my favorite when they come in, because I'm always like, can you. If they come in with the intact, what's the strip? I'll be like, can you cut it up? And sometimes they'll be like, I don't know how to do that. That's when I'm like, I don't think I'm going to hire you again.

Tim McKay (80:03)

When I worked at Mac back in the day, all we were allowed to do was strips. And so everyone got a big strip no matter what you. What you're going for.

Maureen Callahan (80:10)

I remember you telling me this and, like, when you see it now and, like, so like newer housewives who come in to the Bravo universe, sometimes you'll see them with, like, a very heavy strip lash. Like, it's almost like weighing the eye down. Yeah, that's a grim scenario. I think we all want to avoid that.

Tim McKay (80:30)

Kind of like when some people want to be glamorous, it's almost like getting a tan or getting your lips done. It's like, let's go for the max of it. And I feel like you don't always have to do that. It's good to find a nice, happy medium with what just works for you. So for you, I like to go with these clusters because you have such beautiful eyes. You have great lashes yourself. Thank you. All I want to do is add a little drama to the outside.

Maureen Callahan (80:48)

I actually love stuff like this where it's almost undetectable. Like, when I go out into my regular life after leaving, once you've done my face, nobody ever is like, oh, great fake lashes. They just. My eyes look like them but just, like, better, you know, that's the goal.

Tim McKay (81:06)

And that's why I love to use these, even if I do, like, weddings or any kind of event, because I really love that you forget about them.

Maureen Callahan (81:12)

And you don't feel them, which is the other thing. Like, this eye which is done has a full set of those lashes, and I don't feel them, which is amazing. Okay. Also, we have to talk about the Oscar nominations came out yesterday.

Tim McKay (81:25)

Oh, and that show, the Beauty came out yesterday too.

Maureen Callahan (81:27)

Oh, you told me you watched the Beauty.

Tim McKay (81:29)

So I actually watched the Beauty really quick, and it was. It's just. It's very Ryan Murphy. It's very, like, I don't know if it's gonna offend some people actually, like, it might.

Maureen Callahan (81:39)

Well, he's always looking to offend, so.

Tim McKay (81:41)

You know, it might be a little bit.

Maureen Callahan (81:42)

But I'm most offended by the fact that he gave Ashton Kutcher work.

Tim McKay (81:45)

Yeah.

Maureen Callahan (81:45)

So go see. Go watch our most recent nerve at night.

Tim McKay (81:48)

Ashton Kutcher is in, like, two minutes of the first episode, and he literally has, like, one line, and it's a little cringe. Like, I felt bad. I was like, oh, he like, he.

Maureen Callahan (81:55)

Was just feel bad for him, because.

Tim McKay (81:56)

He just turned around and he's just like. Like, I'm a bad guy, like, pretty much.

Maureen Callahan (82:00)

Oh, well, I. I could get with that. I can get with him telling us exactly who he is. And I can get with Ryan Murphy saying, hey, everybody out there, you're right. This guy's a bad guy. I hope he never gets another role.

Tim McKay (82:11)

Ever down for me. Okay, I'm gonna go in with the mascara. I like to do mascara after we do the fake lashes.

Maureen Callahan (82:17)

Why is that?

Tim McKay (82:17)

So that way I can push your real lashes up into the fake ones.

Maureen Callahan (82:21)

Oh, okay. So it's sort of. It's a binding agent a little bit.

Tim McKay (82:26)

Yeah.

Maureen Callahan (82:26)

I like that. You know, the inevitable happened. Timothy Shyamalan, ding dong, ping pong for the Oscars, got nominated Best Actor.

Tim McKay (82:35)

I'm not surprised. Well, since he won the Globe. Right.

Maureen Callahan (82:39)

Listen, I am pulling. I'm pushing for an upset, and we're going to do everything here at the Nerve to push Ethan Hawke for best Actor into the bloodstream. Have you seen Blue Moon yet?

Tim McKay (82:49)

I haven't.

Maureen Callahan (82:50)

You must, but I have to. We were just talking about before we started this part of the show. Tim is six. Six. In real life, I'm like five, seven. He's six, six. So to frame us up together is a. Is a tricky proposition. And we initially brought in, like, a smaller, a lower chair. And Tim came up to here on me, and I was like, oh, my God. It's like Ethan Hawke and Blue Moon. Like, you're really a big guy. But they, like, built the bar up to here. And Tim's like, please, sir. Okay, sorry. Back to the mascara.

Tim McKay (83:20)

Back to the mascara. I think we're just about gotten it all on there. I'm going to leave. Are we doing bottom mascara today?

Maureen Callahan (83:26)

Not today, because it's going to be a long day and it'll smudge. Like, I know this about myself. Yeah, I can get. My skin is a bit oily, which I had a great dermatologist once tell me that bodes well for aging. If you have more oil in your skin, that's going to bode well for aging. But the flip side of it is, like, I can't really wear much eye makeup on my bottom lashes because it'll stay smudge all day long.

Tim McKay (83:48)

But that's why it's good that we did a little bit of the eyeliner on the bottom because then that gives the illusion of the lash on the.

Maureen Callahan (83:53)

Bottom and the eyeliner really won't smudge. Right. Because you use, like a powder eyeliner. So that's like a good solution if you have my, my issue.

Tim McKay (83:59)

This is a fabulous eyeliner. I've used it on you every time now for the past couple times.

Maureen Callahan (84:03)

This is the Tilbury. And it's, it's, what's the color?

Tim McKay (84:05)

Barbarella brown.

Maureen Callahan (84:07)

Nice. And that seems like universally flattering.

Tim McKay (84:09)

It is. A lot of people would just jump to a black, but I feel like black can be a little too harsh. So I feel like a dark brown almost gives you the illusion of black without drama.

Maureen Callahan (84:17)

Yes. I love that. And Tim, this is basically like a five minute eye. Except for us, like, you know, talking about TV and movies all day.

Mark Bowden (84:25)

Tim.

Maureen Callahan (84:25)

Tim. This is the artistry that is Tim McKay, the celebrity makeup artist and our all over, like just basically pop culture connoisseur. And we'll be, we'll be putting all of these products on our sub stack with little tips from Tim, like additional tips that we couldn't squeeze into today's segment. And I think this is way, I think that Today show could take note. You know, Marlena's right over here off camera, but, you know, we gotta drop in the. I don't know if we were working together at that time, but when Leslie Bibb encouraged Jenna Bush Hager into her Bob, her quote, unquote, you can bleep me if you need to. What Chris McMillan, who's Jen Aniston's stylist, calls the cunty Bob from the White Lotus. And Leslie's there going, marlena, you should be cheering me on. You're such a badass. Come on, let's do it. You're the coolest.

Mark Bowden (85:14)

Yay.

Maureen Callahan (85:15)

We did it. We did it. You guys are so amazing. Thanks, Marlena. Thanks for giving us our flowers. And that does it. That does it for our Friday edition of the Nerve. But come back and see us tomorrow for the Mini that drops on YouTube. Remember, the minis only live on YouTube for now at 10am Eastern on Saturdays. And this one, again, it's one of those things where, you know, Marlena and I were going back and forth about, you know, what the Mini would be. And then on Wednesday night, this showed up in my algorithm. And I texted Marlena at like 10pm And I said, minnie. And she said yes. And so it's here. We don't, it's, it's baked. It's, it's, it just, it just came out fully baked. It like, you know, we, we do believe the forces are with us. The forces are with us. So be sure to meet us over there tomorrow morning at the Cool Kids table. And if you haven't already, check out our substack@thenerveshow.com be sure to subscribe. Plus nerve merch grab something for yourself or pick something up for a fellow troublemaker@shop thenerve.com you can also listen to the Nerve every Monday, Wednesday and Friday at 9am Eastern on Megan's Podcast Playlist, which you can find on Sirius XM channel 111, the Megan Kelly channel. We will see you tomorrow for the Mini and then again next week right here at the Nerve, where you will never guess what we're about to say next. All white chicken meat breaded in tortilla chips. They're Taco Bell's Crispy Chicken Nuggets. Pretty different than the nuggets you're used to, haters will say. But that's not the classic nugget. Haters are right. Haters will love them anyways. Oh, and they come with Hidden Valley Ranch, another classic, but we mixed it up with Diablo. They can't hate that. I mean, they can, but they won't. Crispy Chicken Nuggets from Taco Bell, a brand new classic at participating US Taco Bell locations for a limited time only while supplies last. Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can set up Chores, Automate allowance and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications. Kids learn to earn, save and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Sign up for Greenlight today@Greenlight.com podcast.