Bill Maher's Sleazy Behavior, Navigating Mother's Day Woes, and The Nerve's Book Giveaway Winners

Summary

The Nerve with Maureen Callahan – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Bill Maher's Sleazy Behavior, Navigating Mother's Day Woes, and The Nerve's Book Giveaway Winners
Date: May 8, 2026
Host: Maureen Callahan (MK Media)
Special Guest: Meg Josephson (psychotherapist and author)

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Overview

In this Friday edition of The Nerve, Maureen Callahan fearlessly dissects the problematic behavior of Bill Maher, using his recent Club Random podcast episodes as a cultural lens for sleaze, cringe, and entitlement. She then celebrates the winners of The Nerve's celebrity scandal book giveaway and closes with an in-depth, compassionate discussion about the complexities of Mother's Day, joined by psychotherapist Meg Josephson. The entire episode mixes razor-sharp pop culture commentary with heartfelt, unvarnished explorations of family dynamics, maintaining Maureen’s signature blend of humor, skepticism, and emotional intelligence.

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1. Bill Maher's Sleazy Behavior on Club Random (01:09–29:56)

Maureen’s Essential Take

• Bill Maher remains, in Maureen’s words, “a public pervert” whose podcast is a “hostage situation” for female guests.
• Maher’s latest episode features Dr. Deborah So (self-styled “sex neuroscientist”), and Maureen cannot get over Maher’s inappropriate, sexually charged conduct.
• The tone is biting, critical, and often hilarious; Maureen and her team (especially Marlena) provide MST3K-style commentary as Maher fumbles through crass questions and autobiographical over-shares.

Key Segments & Analysis

First Impressions & Set Changes (02:00–04:00)

• Maher’s set is less “creepy” than previous, but Maureen laughs that it’s “woodshed adjacent.” The lighting is slightly friendlier, but that’s where any improvements end.
• Quote: “No woman should set foot in there without blue light and luminol because it’s so dark.” (Maureen, 06:10)

The Sex Doll Comment (08:02)

• Maher immediately references his “Whitney Cummings sex doll in the bathtub” to his guest.
• Quote: “He asks her upon greeting her, ‘did you see my sex doll in the bathtub?’ Oh my god.” (Maureen, 07:40)

The Uncomfortable Interview Dynamic (08:35–09:29)

• Dr. So sits “ramrod straight,” “like she’s in a stress position,” clearly uncomfortable for “1 hour and 50 minutes.”
• Marlena observes that Dr. So avoids touching anything, as if she’s a “prisoner of war.”
• Quote: “Bill is kind of like slouched and then…leaned in towards her…She remains in that position...for 1 hour and 50 minutes.” (Maureen, 08:33)

The “Inceloquy” and Maher's Misogyny (12:06, 12:14)

• Maher quickly redirects the conversation to his own supposed celibacy—describing himself as a proto-incel.
• Quote: "I was not an – well, I guess I was what they would call an INCEL now because INCEL stands for involuntarily celibate. It certainly was involuntary on my part." (Bill Maher, 12:14)

Porn, Masturbation, and Relentless Oversharing (14:34–18:04)

• Maher recounts “masturbating all the time at Cornell,” laments “no Playboys,” quickly contradicts himself later by recalling frequent “stroke book” purchases.
• Dr. So tries to redirect to relevant societal concerns (young boys watching porn in class, social consequences) but is derailed by Maher's self-absorption.
• Quotes:
  • “Trust me, no one knows better than I do…it is a substitute for sex. Thank God it exists. Masturbation, or else I would have just exploded.” (Bill Maher, 14:34)
  • “He invites these women into his studio to make them suffer. And we've got other examples of this, and he's making all of us suffer.” (Maureen, 16:50)

Misogynistic Rants—LA Women and “Hypergamy” (26:09)

• Maher describes LA women as “vapid” and accuses them of trying to “level up” via men like himself.
• Quote: “You're not smart. You're not cool, interesting…You're vapid. And…you think you deserve…the upper echelon kind of guy. Read a book.” (Bill Maher, 26:09)
• Maureen's take: “Bill using the word ‘chicks’ again. Teleporting in from the Paleolithic era.” (Maureen, 26:41)

Pervy “Compliments” to Drew Barrymore (29:38)

• Maher tells Drew, “but you look great for 50. I mean, you're still super fuckable. Is all you can ask for at 50, right?”
• Maureen’s response: “Women of Hollywood, find your respect, find your dignity and tell Bill Maher to fuck all the way off.” (Maureen, 29:56)

Notable Quotes – Bill Maher Dissected

• “Not since you, Hefner, Larry Flint, who were at least like, open pornographers, do I think we have had, like, such a public pervert as Bill Maher." (Maureen, 06:00)
• “She looks like she's trying to avoid touching anything…maintaining a stress position.” (Maureen paraphrasing Marlena, 08:33)
• “It’s his favorite topic of conversation: Porn and masturbation. And he says that porn and masturbation got him through high school and college.” (Maureen, 13:20)
• “He was getting off on embarrassing her, humiliating her. I consider that…abusive. I really truly do.” (Maureen on Barbara Eden segment, 20:15)

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2. Celebrity Scandal Book Giveaway—Winners & Greatest Scandals (32:50–48:58)

Maureen Celebrates Troublemaker Community

• Announces winners for five signed copies of Rob Shooter’s debut novel It Started With a Whisper.
• Thanks Murray’s Cheese for their “bespoke cheese plate” created for The Nerve’s Pet Gala.
• Engages the audience with detailed, witty recountings of the most epic celebrity scandals submitted by listeners.

Highlighted Celebrity Scandals (select timestamps)

• Natalie Wood’s death: “Still unsolved…one of Hollywood’s most perplexing mysteries.” (34:00)
• Lance Armstrong’s doping: “Not just that he doped…he enforced the lie, silenced teammates…” (35:46)
• Tampon Gate – Prince Charles’ leaked call: "You cannot beat a future King Charles wanting to be reincarnated as a tampon." (37:15)
• Hugh Grant’s mugshot & Divine Brown’s review: “...His was cute.” (Julie, 39:10)
• Julia Roberts' romantic chaos: “Julia Roberts walked so Angelina Jolie could run.” (Leslie, ca. 41:47)
• Frank Gifford’s tabloid takedown, Whoopi & Ted’s blackface roast, the original Liz-Taylor/Debbie Reynolds/Eddie Fisher mess, Christina Crawford’s Mommy Dearest revelations.

Notable Community Quotes

• “Stephanie also gives us an answer to a question I posed…Who do you think was the [tabloid gossip columnist] of Christ’s time?... 'Catalyst.'” (Maureen, 41:00)
• “...a man doesn’t leave a woman for another woman, Debbie [Reynolds] said, unless he wants to go. That is true.” (44:45)

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3. Navigating Mother’s Day Woes – With Meg Josephson (50:26–75:22)

Theme: Mother's Day Is Not Universal Joy

• Maureen and Meg tackle the emotional complexity, grief, and social taboos surrounding Mother’s Day for anyone with fraught or painful maternal relationships.

Key Listener Questions & Meg’s Guidance

Grieving the Mother You Didn’t Have (53:05)

• A listener realizes her mother did not protect her from abuse; her mother now enforces contact with the abuser as a condition of relationship.
• Meg normalizes the “unique form of grief” (“It’s not just grief when someone passes away…It’s also grieving what we didn’t have, a mom that didn’t protect us…That is so real.” [Meg, 53:05])
• Self-parenting: “That little girl…is still within you…and the difference is, now you are the parent of her…You get to take care of her in the way she didn’t get that care.” (Meg, 54:10)

Permission to Set Boundaries (56:52)

• Maureen pushes the forbidden question: “Do I have permission to exit myself from this relationship?”
• Meg insists: “Prepare yourself. She won’t like it. That’s actually a sign that you’re doing something right for yourself…” (59:21–60:02)

The Good Daughter & Guilt (61:26)

• Listener struggles to care for abusive mother—guilt versus self-care.
• Meg reframes guilt: “Are you doing something morally wrong?” (61:46)
• Maureen: “It is nobody’s business who you do and don’t see on Mother’s Day.” (63:30)

Protecting an Abused Father (66:33)

• Listener witnesses mother abusing aging father.
• Meg: “Safety planning…are there other people you can call on…so that you can keep your father safe?” (67:56*)
• Maureen: “You can be there in a way while also taking care of your sanity at the same time.” (69:42)

The Mother Wound & Active Grieving (70:10)

• Listener’s mother becomes cruel after financial cutoff; describes seeing joy in her mother at her suffering.
• Meg: “I want my mom—but not my mom. I want my mom, but it’s not how it looks…I just want my mom who will take care of me…”
• Key to healing: name the gap, let anger surface (“anger says that wasn’t fair,” [73:24]), and know that “the only way out is through.” (Maureen, 73:58)

Notable Quotes

• “As kids, we idolize our parents because the world would feel too scary if we didn’t.” (Meg, 56:52)
• “That pushback is actually a sign [you’re doing something right for yourself].” (Maureen, 60:02)
• “You can always change your mind…You’re making a decision about this moment in time, not the rest of your life.” (Meg, 63:55)
• “It’s not being a compassionate person if we are showing up but seething with resentment.” (Meg, 64:49)
• “If we can’t have a parent that will acknowledge our pain, the least we can do is acknowledge it within ourselves.” (Meg, 73:21)
• “Sometimes [anger is] a very healthy reaction.” (Maureen, 73:58)

Invitation for Community

• “We truly hope that segment lightened you up just a little bit. It's all going to be okay.” (Maureen, 75:22)
• Meg will return for a similar Father’s Day segment.

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Timestamps – Important Segments

• 01:09–29:56: Bill Maher on Club Random dissected; key audio clips and classic Maureen commentary.
• 32:50–48:58: Celebrity scandal feedback and book giveaway winners.
• 50:26–75:22: Meg Josephson and listener Q&A — complex, compassionate advice on navigating difficult Mother's Day experiences.

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Tone & Takeaways

• Maureen's language is brash, funny, and fiercely protective of women.
• She leverages cultural critique to spotlight normalized misogyny and lack of empathy in media figures like Maher.
• The second half provides a warm, inclusive space for listeners suffering complex family dynamics, with legit, actionable advice — and permission “to be selfish” when necessary.

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For listeners who missed the episode:
This edition of The Nerve careens from appalled, laugh-out-loud pop culture critique to brave and comforting self-help for those grappling with Mother's Day. With Maureen's mix of wit and sincerity, and guest Meg Josephson’s steady validation, listeners are reminded that hard feelings are valid, boundaries are healthy, and no one has to keep toxic relationships alive just to perform cultural scripts.

Memorable sign-off: “Women of Hollywood, find your respect, find your dignity, and tell Bill Maher to fuck all the way off.” (29:56)

Transcript

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[Bill Maher]

Foreign.

[Maureen Callahan]

Building what I like to think of as a woodshed adjacent structure. Hello and welcome to your Friday edition of the Nerve. I am your host, Maureen Callahan. We have so much to get to today. Now, very recently, I wrote, I wrote on my Instagram account, MAUREEN Callahan WRITER that we were considering reducing Bill Maher's sentence in the woodshed, if not actually paroling him. But he's in. He's in for life, I think, because he's back on his podcast, Club Random. There's a woman in there who looks like she would really like to leave and we're gonna go through it together because I was laughing out loud. Marlena and I were like, texts were flying back and forth. It's so good. Then we're going to read some troublemaker feedback and. And the winning five entries to our celebrity scandal of all time contest. Those five winners are going to get a signed copy of Rob Shooter's debut novel. It started with a whisper. And then later in the show, we're going to cover Mother's Day the Nerve. Way. As mentioned on the Nerve earlier, Mother's Day can be very difficult for very many of us out here and it's never, ever discussed in the culture. Okay. Meg Josephson, who has been on the Nerve before, you guys love her. We love her. Psychotherapist and author of the best selling book are you mad at me? Is going to be joining us, answering your questions that you emailed in and they are so good. This is going to be so fascinating and I think it's going to Help so many of us. Are you ready? Are you ready? Let's go. If you're One of the 30% of Americans who wake up with a sore jaw, frequent headaches, and increased tooth sensitivity from grinding your teeth at night, consider giving Remy a try. Their custom night guards are clinically tested and FDA cleared to prevent teeth grinding, to reduce jaw tension and facial muscle strain, and to improve sleep quality. Here is what's so great about Remy. No doctor visits. The impression kit arrives at your door. You apply two molds to your teeth. It takes about 10 minutes for those to set, and then you mail them back. Two weeks later, your custom guard will arrive. It is that simple. And best of all, Remy offers the same quality night guard you'd get from your dentist, but it costs 80% less. So protect your teeth with Remy. Use Code nerve to get 50% off your new night guard with with Remy Club. Subscribe and save. That's 50% off at shop r m I dot com. Slash nerve with code Nerve. And thank you to Remy for sponsoring this episode. I don't think you know what I think. Not since you, Hefner, Larry Flint, who were at least like, open pornographers, do I think we have had, like, such a public pervert like as Bill Maher. He's just like an old perv. And he's back. He's back in full form. Now, Marlena sent me this side by side yesterday, which had me on the floor. Let's take a little look at Bill and Marlena twinning as she takes a look at his op ed from last Friday's Real Time. Marlena in her stead Muffin T shirt. Oh, my God. I've gotta dig mine out. Okay, Bill on his Club Random podcast that dropped on May 4 had on as his guest a much younger woman. Naturally, her. Her title is Sexual neuroscientist. That's a job description I've never heard before. I mean, we'll talk about it later. Sex neuroscientist and author, Deborah so of the book Sextinction. That's a great title. Sextinction. The Decline of Sex and the Future of Intimacy. Now, when I went to go pull this video up to begin cutting it along with Team Nerve, Marlena and Alyssa, what came up was the following warning. This video is age restricted. Of course it is. Of course it is. Now, I do think that Bill Maher may be watching the Nerve or someone on his staff is reporting back. Because you know how we would always talk about his lair, like the basement at Club Random, you know, like, no woman should set foot in there without blue light and luminol because it's so dark. And it was. It was, you know, so, like, weird and, like, creepy. The set is lit now. Okay. By which I mean it is lighter. You can actually see in there. There is something resembling daylight. The color palette is a little bit friendlier. But Bill will never change. Never change Bill, because he does this thing where his guest is seated again. Remember, he films this thing in his house or in an outbuilding on his property. So he does this thing where his guest is already seated on the set. And then Bill strolls into the frame and walks up to his seated guest, who then has to get up and greet him and shake his hand. And really, it should be the other way around. Okay? He. The guest should be walking out, and he should be standing and greeting the guest and shake. You know, class is not a thing necessarily to expect from this guy. I don't know what I'm thinking, because by the way, she asks, he asks her upon greeting her, hey, by the way, when you were on your way into the set, onto the set, did you see my sex doll in the bathtub? Oh, my God. He says, it's the sex doll of Whitney Cummings. Okay, now Bill is going to watch. Watch Bill's encouragement, nay entreaty toward his guest and his guest actively ignoring said advice. Here we go.

[Bill Maher]

Well, sit back, enjoy yourself.

[Deborah (Sex Neuroscientist)]

I'm excited to be here.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, good. I'm thrilled to have you. Did you, by the way, see the sex doll in the bathtub? The Whitney Cummings sex doll?

[Meg Josephson]

Yeah.

[Deborah (Sex Neuroscientist)]

I was telling your team I love

[Bill Maher]

it because you're the first sex neuroscientist we've had on the show. First one I've ever heard of in life. I mean, that's. It's right on the COVID of your book. Sex Neuroscientist. That's quite a title.

[Maureen Callahan]

My God. So if you're only listening to this, I'm gonna encourage you to go watch this segment on YouTube because Bill is kind of like, slouched and, like, then leane leaning, alternately, he's leaned in towards her and slouched over and, like, kind of getting interpersonal space. And then he slouches back in his chair, and this woman remains ramrod straight. And Marlena pointed something out that I did not catch, but she's 100% right, Deborah, so looks like she is trying to avoid touching anything. Like, like the arm of the chair. She remains in that position. I would call it a stress position. Like, she's a prisoner of war. She's maintaining a stress position. For 1 hour and 50 minutes of airtime, Bill is going to ask his first burning question. I won't even paraphrase it. I won't even. Here we go.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, that's really the whole thrust of your, no pun intended, of your book is, you know, what's. Why aren't people fucking like they used to?

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay? Now, this whole thing, him having on a sex neuroscientist, if this is even a thing, because as he says, who's heard of this job description before, but an author of a book that's basically about. This is a. This is a societal phenomenon. This is like one of the. This is the first generation in recorded human history, like Gen Z, that's just actively not having sex. And he. He. But he's really using what could be a very elucidating, informative discussion to just perv out in front of this hostage. Again, this is a prisoner of war situation. Deborah, if you need Teddy to round up his buddies and Seal Team 6, I mean, he did attempt an extraction for Stedman. He can do it. Just let us know. Just send up a flare. Now, Bill. What happens when Bill talks about this generation not having sex is that he then circles right back to high school Bill Maher and college Bill Maher, who could never get laid in high school. And watch him once again, he did this to Billy Joel. We covered this on one of our very earliest nerves. He went and interviewed Billy Joel at Billy's house, his estate on Long Island. And Billy had just announced that he was diagnosed with a very rare brain disorder or neurological disease. And it's a scary diagnosis. And Bill comes in and he asks Billy, how's your health? And Billy starts answering in a very heartfelt way and making real eye contact. And Bill just turns his attention over to the table here, where his weed and his cocktail are living. These are the things that really need tending to. He does it here again. Watch. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. Here we go.

[Deborah (Sex Neuroscientist)]

The wild thing, too, is not just are people not having sex, but they take pride in it. And they're saying, like, women are saying, we don't need men. We're fine on our own. And men are saying, the sex robots are coming. We have our AI girlfriends, so we don't need women either. And so they're actually taking this like a point of pride instead of saying, there's something really wrong going on here. We need to fix this problem.

[Bill Maher]

Right? I mean, there is. Yeah. You're Right. This. I mean, there were certainly always times

[Maureen Callahan]

when people comes the big bottle of

[Bill Maher]

alcohol didn't fuck for whatever reason. I mean, if you had met me in high school or college, you'd have met. You know, I was. I was not an. Well, I guess I was what they would call an INCEL now because INCEL stands for involuntarily celibate. It certainly was involuntary on my part.

[Maureen Callahan]

He cannot stop himself. And I'm sorry, but, like, Bill Maher needs somebody on his team. He probably won't allow for this, but he needs somebody who can have real crisis talks with him, like Bill on your show. Quit fiddling with your belt buckle and pointing your pinky down towards your member. It's pervy. Hey, Bill, when you have an invited guest on your show and you ask them a question to which they begin delivering a very thoughtful, articulate answer, maybe don't start making a drink and checking how much weed is in your cigarette case because it's rude. And we can tell you. You're not really listening to her. You're more concerned with making your cocktail. She can tell. He's. He's. He's. He's not even listening. He's like, yeah, you know, I mean, I guess you're. I guess you're right. Like, he has to, like, cognitively catch up. Now, Marlena and I were talking yesterday about this segment which she watched before I did, and she said, you know, Bill used a word I've never heard of before, and I wonder if you've heard of it. No, not Bill. Deborah did. Bill didn't. Had never heard of it either. It's called hypergamy. I had never heard this word. And it's. It's when people quote marry up. We're going to get into that. Into what? Bill thinks women who might be intrigued by him see in him, you know? Of course he thinks it's like a stepping stone. Into what? I have no idea. I have no idea, because this is his favorite topic of conversation. Porn and masturbation. And he says that porn and masturbation got him through high school and college. Or did it? Here we go.

[Bill Maher]

Trust me, no one knows better than I do from my formative years when I was too shy and lame to get with a girl. It is a substitute for sex. Thank God it exists. Masturbation, or else I would have just exploded. I mean, during my most horny years, that's all I was doing, was masturbating the whole time at Cornell. Cornell was a terrible place.

[Deborah (Sex Neuroscientist)]

Would you go To. Would you be like, looking at it in class or. I'm just kidding.

[Bill Maher]

No.

[Meg Josephson]

But that's what boys are doing today, though.

[Bill Maher]

I barely had anything to look at. I don't even remember getting. I didn't think I had Playboys. I mean, that's what we had back then, Playboys. But I didn't. I don't. I don't. I. No, no, I wasn't. I didn't. I didn't have the money to go to the newsstand, which didn't exist, as I recall, and buy what, a Playboy in Ithaca, New York. No, I think I was doing it from just what I saw around me.

[Maureen Callahan]

Teleporting in from the Paleolithic era is one Bill Maher, who. You know, the. This author tries to interject and she's got something very relevant and alarming to say, which is that boys are looking at porn in class. And he just rolls right over that. And he's like, you know, I was stuck up in Ithaca, New York, at like an Ivy or an Ivy adjacent. I don't even know if Cornell's an IV or an Ivy adjacent. But, you know, he's like, terrible place. It's an Ivy. Marlene. Marlene is telling me it's a terrible place. And, you know, newsstands didn't even exist then. Yes, they did, Bill. Newsstands existed. And that he didn't even have the money to go buy a Playboy, which he's gonna contradict himself on in just a moment. Okay, but then that clip ends where he says he was just jerking. He was masturbating all the time. And I believe it. I believe it. I think he gave an interview once in which he said, like, he barely cracked a book at Cornell, like he was just masturbating all the time. But he says, just to what I saw around me. That was his stimulus. That was his input. Just to what? Not who. Not the girls. Who. Not the women who. No wonder girls and women kept their distance from Bill Maher. You can see this guy coming. I mean, just. Just put the trench coat on, just put the. The hat on and the sunglasses on, and just be your pervy self. Now Bill is going to discuss his porn consumption because America hasn't suffered enough. This is all Bill's rage about his adolescence and his young adulthood. Okay? He does this. He invites these women into his studio to make them suffer. And we've got other examples of this, and he's making all of us suffer. Here he is on how he consumes

[Bill Maher]

porn like any normal red blooded American Male. I look at pornhub, but even that's fairly recent in my life. I stuck with the magazines a lot longer than most people because I was kind of afraid like if I go on this pornhub thing, will they know? Is there a cookie in there? Can they come and say I? And then of course I gave in. But. But that's really within the last 10 years, maybe even five years. So. But I see what's on there and it is astounding to me some of it.

[Maureen Callahan]

Like anyone would be shocked to find out Bill Maher had an active subscription to pornhub. Bill Maher is also like a public member of like an L A based sex club. You know, Bill Maher was a frequent habituate of Hefner's Playboy palace, whatever he called that place, which we now know from the women who escaped, how filthy it was like in every way. Like even just physically disgusting, you know, like so this is all gross. And because we must, we now must revisit bill. This was eight months ago, so probably in July explaining OnlyFans to another one of his female guests on club random, the 90 year old legend, the class act that is Barbara Eden telling her that she should pose nude for OnlyFans so pervs like Bill can whack off to it. Here we go.

[Bill Maher]

You know what? OnlyFans, right?

[Meg Josephson]

You what?

[Bill Maher]

Onlyfans. What that is.

[Maureen Callahan]

Are you my only fan?

[Bill Maher]

No, there's a whole organization, a whole website called OnlyFans.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh no, I don't know about that. No, no.

[Bill Maher]

Oh no. Sit down.

[Deborah (Sex Neuroscientist)]

Okay.

[Bill Maher]

No, even deeper. Sit even lower.

[Maureen Callahan]

Here comes that old lunch trying to touch Barbara.

[Bill Maher]

This is not gonna come as good news. Okay, Well, I mean it's a website that advertises as a place where people can do anything, show you how to cook or write poetry. It's women masturbating or showing their vaginas to men who are paying them electronically to watch them. And it's very, very popular. And millions of women, it's a big thing.

[Maureen Callahan]

Hasn't it always been that?

[Bill Maher]

No, not like this. I mean there weren't millions of American women who or go on pornhub. There's just an endless amount of women who are making porn videos.

[Maureen Callahan]

He was getting off on embarrassing her, humiliating her. I consider that at the very least, I consider what he just did there abusive. I really truly do. Now here's Bill on visiting Larry Flint's office and he's going to discuss. He's going to use a phrase I have never heard before. I told Marlena when he said this, I nearly fell off my chair. Bill Maher on his favorite stroke books, which, by the way, he would go purchase at the newsstands that he just said didn't exist when he was a young man, you know, before the Internet allowed him to fully perv out. Here we go.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, and again, I think this is because I started at such an innocent place. I mean, you mentioned Playboy in the same breath as pornography, I guess. Yes, technically it is. And certainly in its day, it was the tip of the spear, but it's. So use the term of pornography. But now it's. I mean, please. It's just. It's the tamest thing. It was just the girl next door.

[Maureen Callahan]

And, you know, and she's happy. She looks like she's happy.

[Deborah (Sex Neuroscientist)]

She's enjoying it.

[Bill Maher]

And there was no men in the picture. I mean, I certainly even remember from the magazine era of the 90s. We're going back 30 years, and you could go to the newsstand. Certainly. When I lived in New York, there was still newsstands in the mid-90s when I started doing Politically Incorrect. And I lived in New York for a few years, and the newsstand was. There was, like, dozens and dozens of porn magazines of every. I mean, I remember going to Larry Flynt's office, and he had on his desk, like, all the. He had many publications beside Hustler, and they were all, like, laid out on his desk very neatly. And there had to be 30 different brands, you know, Jugs and Gentry and Shaved Asian and, you know, Motorcycle Girls. Every sort of niche thing had its own. Yeah, had its own magazine. And so, like, you could go to the newsstand almost every night and buy another stroke book.

[Maureen Callahan]

First of all, that's exactly what he was doing with his time. He was going to the newsstand every single night. He just said it. And buying another stroke book. He says, oh, I went up to Larry Flynn's office, and he. He had all these other genres of sub genres of porn, and he says one of them was called Shaved Asian. He's saying this to an AS woman who is a guest on his set, and he's sitting there wearing sunglasses so she can't really look him in the eyes, which is another offense. It's another form of humiliation. I don't understand why women go on his show. I really don't. Okay, Bill is going to continue. My God, I don't. I don't even think this woman's gotten a word in yet. We're almost 20 minutes into this interview here's. Bill on how he likes what he calls benign porn. Here we go.

[Bill Maher]

I just like hot chicks, you know, I don't want to see them abused. In fact, I don't want to see the guy in it at all. Very often it's just a girl acting sexy for the first five minutes and then the guy comes in. Once he comes in, I'm out. Like, you know, I don't need the guy in. I'm the guy. I'm the guy. Who is this guy with my girl?

[Maureen Callahan]

Bill isn't Sha Diddy Combs. He's got no gay in him whatsoever. Absolutely not. He does not want to see men in his porn at all. It is a no. Okay, okay, Bill, I just, I. I just. I have to reference our dear departed Freezer Meat, the. The escort for hire who made. Who made himself known during the Sean Diddy Combs trial and wrote a book called Freezer Meat about the scourge of male impotence. It remains on my. In my library for further consultation when Diddy's released. Okay, here is Dr. So again, you would, you would forget this woman has a doctorate because of this conversation. This, this monologue she's being subjected to by Bill Maher. Here she is on the dangers again. These are really important talking points. The dangers of social media, the Andrew Tates of the world, the manosphere. You know, Bill will often have on his podcast Professor Scott Galloway, who's a very smart guy and who talks about this a lot, the crisis of young men in America today and what social media and porn. Porn is doing to them. And he always engages in a very smart, respectful way with someone like a Scott Galloway. What could be the difference here in Bill subjecting this guest to his disquisitions on porn and the ways in which he likes to masturbate? I wonder what could be the difference here? Could it be that this is a woman? Here we go.

[Bill Maher]

So they're putting out the idea that guys should have a harem because it's not easy to get a harem.

[Maureen Callahan]

Bill says it's not easy to get a harem. Like he's thought about it. Oh, my God. Okay. So Bill then goes on to say that LA women in particular are the problem. LA women are the problem. And this is where hypergamy comes in. Because in Bill's assessment, LA women are. Are looking to level up by dating Bill Maher. Here we go.

[Bill Maher]

The real problem isn't wanting the perfect guy. The real problem is I feel like this attitude. And again, maybe this is just LA among women who you're not, you don't have that much to offer. You know what you have to offer? You're cute. That's it. And you think that's all you need. You're not smart. You're not cool, interesting. You're not that interesting. You're vapid. And. And there's a thousand million chicks out here just like you. And you think you deserve, like, the. The upper echelon kind of guy. Read a book.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay, so that's Bill using the word chicks again. Teleporting in from the Paleolithic era. That is so outdated. And he's ranting that all these girls and women in LA trying to level up to the likes of him, but they. They crack a book before you dare to approach the great Bill Maher. Maybe if Bill wasn't on pornhub all day long looking at influencers on Raya, you know, if he had any interest in a woman who wasn't like, Al Pacino's sloppy seconds or like a. Like a series of black hookers. Like, the only people who. What would you call it? Hyper. Like, what would it be like? Hypergamy? Hypergamous. Would it be hypergamous? I don't even know if that's a word. But the only women who would be engaging in hypergamy by getting with Bill Maher would be his beloved black hookers. That's it. And that's all. Speaking of, here's Bill's take on the difference among harems versus porn stars versus hookers. Here we go.

[Bill Maher]

As long as you have that idea in your head that this exists and this. This harem of hot women who are just there to please you. And, you know, that's what I mean. Foreign girls, they're just like hookers. They're trying to make you come.

[Movie Trailer Narrator]

You know, that's their sole purpose.

[Bill Maher]

That's their sole purpose. And they're good at it, Deborah. And it would be impossible for any woman, or literally any group of women to live up to that,

[Maureen Callahan]

to live up to that. As if that is something that. That. That women should aspire to as our highest calling. This guy. At least. At least they're dying out. I would like to think this kind of guy is dying out. You know, to paraphrase Chris Rock, he's like a Betamax. You look at a guy like that and you're like, they still make you okay. There is, however, one woman, one woman who does impress Bill. One woman who might be in perimenopause, who may have been struggling with Substance abuse issues since the age of seven when her mother dragged her to Studio 54, who he drinks alcohol in front of in the morning. He says to her, I love drinking booze for breakfast. I love it. And she says, there's nothing better. You know. It is to weep. It is to weep. It is the one and only Drew Barrymore fielding what Bill clearly considers this great compliment on an episode of Club Random not long after he humiliated Barbara Eden. Women of Hollywood, find your respect, find your dignity and tell Bill Maher to fuck all the way off. Here we go.

[Bill Maher]

So menopause. That makes you what, 50?

[Meg Josephson]

Yeah, Perry,

[Bill Maher]

but you look great for 50. I mean, you're still super fuckable. Is all you can ask for at what? At 50, right? Is you just want to stay fuckable

[Maureen Callahan]

because Bill is so up next, troublemaker feedback and the winners of the Nerves first book giveaway contest. We are back in a minute. Do you second guess the nutrition, taste and sustainability of the seafood that you bring home? Introducing Wild Alaskan. Their seafood is 100 wild caught, never farmed. Which means no antibiotics, GMOs or additives. Just clean, nutrient rich fish that supports healthy oceans and fishing communities. Wild Alaskan Company delivers perfectly proportioned wild caught seafood straight to your door. Their fish is frozen right off the boat to lock in flavor, texture and nutrients like omega 3s. And every order supports sustainable harvesting practices. Their flexible membership is includes expert tips and feel good seafood. My personal favorite is their wild sockeye salmon. It is rich, buttery and incredibly fresh. The best part? You can try it risk free and if you are not completely Satisfied with your first box, Wild Alaskan Company offers a 100% money back guarantee. No questions asked. Just high quality seafood that you can feel good about. Not all fish are the same. Get seafood you can trust. Go to wildalaskan.com nerve for $35 off your first box of premium wild caught seafood. That's wildalaskan.com nerve For $35 off your first order. And thank you to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode.

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[Maureen Callahan]

We are back now for today's Troublemaker Feedback segment. We are going to begin with Paul from New Zealand's latest art. This is a rendition of Blake Lively, who dominated headlines over at the Nerve this week. And Paul, this is amazing. He his. His copy over this rendition is. Her dress looked like tissues after I take makeup off. Did Pam say that? You got to let us know, Paul. We love you. We love you. Okay, we are going to announce our winners of the Rob Shooter book giveaway. And I know Rob signed five, but I'm going to ask him to sign five more. You guys submitted so many great ones. This was a really, really, really hard selection to make. You are all winners, as you know. Oh, and one other little editorial note. We at the Nerve have got to thank Murray's Cheese, New York City's own Murray's Cheese, who designed for our pet gala a bespoke cheese plate. Teddy loves cheese. It's his very, very favorite. I can get him to do almost anything with cheese except find Steadman's remains. But anyway, we want to thank them very much. We are so grateful. Now, on to the best celebrity scandals of all time. I would like to submit the tragic and still unsolved disappearance of Natalie Wood. Well, she died. Her body was recovered. The events of November 29, 1981, aboard the Splendor, the boat she and Robert Wagner had. It remains one of Hollywood's most perplexed, perplexing mysteries. How she ended up in the dark Pacific and drowned. This was a woman who was terrified of the water with only her husband, Robert Wagner, actor Christopher Walken, and Captain Dennis Davern as witnesses. You absolutely. This is one of my favorites of all time. Marianne, you are a winner. Troublemaker Nat from Australia, entering with something a little less obvious and. And more enduring. I love this. This didn't even occur to me. Lance Armstrong, for years, he wasn't just an athlete. He was a narrative cancer survivor, comeback king. Relentless, disciplined, untouchable. Also remember for a hot minute when he was running around with Jake gyllenhaal and Matthew McConaughey and everybody was like, what are those three up to? He didn't just win the Tour de France, he owned the story around its place. Sponsors, media, fans. We weren't just watching dominance, we were buying inspiration. Live strong. Right then it all collapsed. A slow, grinding exposure of something far more unsettling. Not just that he doped and I, I believe also had like entire blood transfusions, but that he enforced. The lie silenced teammates, whistleblowers were decred, discredited. A whole ecosystem bending to protect a brand. And you wonder how we get a Harvey Weinstein or Sean Diddy Combs. Look no further. Nat from Australia, you are a winner As a Gen Xer. This is another submission. It's hard to pick just one. Best of all time, I agree with you as there are so many O.J. clinton, Lewinsky, Milli Vanilli. That's a great one. Somebody else wrote into about Ashley Simpson getting hot lip syncing on the SNL she performed on hosted by Jude Law. An unforgettable moment. The most shocking for me was definitely tampon gate. You cannot beat a future King Charles wanting to be reincarnated as a tampon, to live inside another woman's privates while still being married to his wife. Pascal, you are a winner. Another entrant from Troublemaker Julie in South Florida. A frequent writer, in June 1995, British actor Hugh Grant was arrested for lewd conduct after soliciting sex from a prostitute named Divine Brown in Los Angeles. It was a mugshot for the ages. Hugh was dating, had been involved with for quite some time Liz Hurley, who was an absolute bombshell. So it was striking. Hugh Grant literally picked up a streetwalker one night in LA and got serviced in his car on the side of a road. Divine's quote about Hugh Grant's private part is hilarious. She said, and I quote, if I was rating it out of 10 in terms of size and quality, I'd give it a six. I've seen bigger and I've seen smaller, but his was cute. Troublemaker Julie, you are a winner. Stephanie Lane, you are a winner. Not only were you among the many who cited Liz and Dick, you noted that Joanne Woodward and Paul Newman's love story gave Liz and Dix a run for their money. When Paul and Joanne first met, they were married to other people. But this had shifted by the time they started. My favorite movie of all time, 1958's the Long Hot Summer. The stories are fantastic. Scandalous love is my favorite kind. Mine too, especially when it lingers for a lifetime. Stephanie also gives us an answer to a question I posed on an earlier nerve. Like who do you think was the. Because I said a great celebrity scandal, you know, not to minimize if you're a believer, but Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene. And then I said, I wonder who the Rob shooter of Christ's time was. Stephanie answered it for us. The Rob shooter of the first century CE after. I think you mean AD maybe anyway, was Catalyst. K A T U L L U S Catalyst. I love this. You are a winner. A scandal that I think another troublemaker did not get the attention it should have. Oh, it did. Back in the day. It did. But she has since reinvented herself and, and, and kept her life quite quiet and private. How low rent America's sweetheart Julia Roberts behaved back in the day. Engaged to Dylan McDermott, ditches him, becomes engaged to Kiefer Sutherland. They make it almost to the wedding day. She leaves him at the altar almost and hooks up with Jason Patrick, who was Kiefer's best friend. She and Jason were spotted on an airplane I commercial flight to Ireland. Okay, next thing we read. Suddenly she's met and married Lyle Lovett. Nobody even knew they were dating. And Lyle Lovett was like a very. He looked like. She said she fell in love with him because he looked like Abraham Lincoln. And just an aside, I know people. The, the conventional wisdom or the line on Abraham Lincoln is that he was, he was really like. People use a word I do not like, which is ugly. I've always thought Abraham Lincoln was very attractive. I guess it's true. It is in the eye of the beholder. Then she quickly divorces Lyle and then she's up. She's next up with Benjamin Brat. As we know, a rolling stone gathers no more. No moss. She. She breaks up with Ben Bratt right after she won the Oscar and she was on Oprah Winfrey, say in campaigning for her Oscar, saying that she was so happy with Benjamin Brat that she was, quote, drunk with joy. I'll never forget it. She gets that Oscar, Ben's history. Then she's on to Danny Motor, who happens to be married. She met him on the set of the Mexican and Danny wasn't getting a divorce fast enough. His wife was named Vera. She goes out and is photographed by the paps with a T shirt reading A Lou Vera, which I guess was her spin on aloe vera. It didn't really read, but she got the guy. Julia Roberts walked so Angelina Jolie could run. Leslie, aka Mrs. Shackleford you are a winner. I think this is number seven. The greatest celebrity scandal I love this was when Frank Gifford got caught cheating on Kathy Lee Gifford. The Globe tabloid may have set him up, but he still cheated. Was with an airline stewardess. That's what they were called back then. He had a reputation for being a womanizer and somehow turned into a perfect husband and father. According to Kathie Lee, listening her brag to Rege. That's Regis Philbin on Live Daily. That's what is the show that Kelly and Mark host. Now, this is true. She used to do this all the time. She would brag daily about her ideal life. It was insufferable. So many romanticized stories about how great her life was as a mother, wife to Frank, her singing career, Frank's career, her amazing children with wild west names, Cody and Cassidy. It was too much. Troublemaker. Sarah, you are a winner. Hi, all. My favorite celebrity scandal was Christina Crawford exposing her mother, Joan Crawford, for the physical abuse she endured, which even to this day is debated in Hollywood. The fact that it was actually an open secret among the Hollywood elite is shocking. This troublemaker says, even Shirley Temple spoke very briefly about it. That I did not know. Apparently everyone knew, but multiple people deny it. Even Chris, Christina's brother, adopted brother, denied it. This troublemaker says, I saw an interview where Christina actually said that she believes her mother killed her stepfather. I think he was the Pepsi executive. Yes, or it might have been Coca Cola. But it's in Mommy Dearest, where after that husband dies, Joan sits with the board who's trying to push her out. It's that famous scene where Faye Dunaway is. Joan Crawford goes, don't fuck with me, fellas. Amazing. Christina said he was perfectly healthy and there was no reason he should have had a heart attack. And since he was found at the bottom of the stairs, she found it very suspicious. Troublemaker Laura Lee, you are a winner. Remember the hot minute in the early 90s when Whoopi Goldberg and Ted Danson met on the long forgotten movie Made in America and started dating. Their relationship earned Ted a high profile and expensive divorce from his wife, along with this moment at the Friar's Club roast of his paramour. Not only did Ted wear blackface, but he repeatedly used the N word. He made jokes about their relationship. He referenced racial stereotypes. I'm laughing because today this would get you canceled. And I think Whoopi defended this. I mean, if it happened today, Whoopi would take him to the woodshed and top the performance off by eating a watermelon slice. I remember thinking what an odd pairing is. Whoopi was a proud black feminist and Ted seemed a bit of a mutton head headed oath. I can't help but wonder why Whoopi hasn't listed this photo as an autograph framed 8 by 10 for all her dedicated fans for bidding on that auction site. As the great Cindy Adams would say, only in New York, kids. Only in New York. Troublemaker. Deborah, you are a winner. Our last one, it's it goes to the Liz Dick, Debbie Reynolds, Eddie Fisher, Love Quadrangle. When celebrities like Debbie Reynolds and Elizabeth Taylor passed away, it was an end of an era. Agreed. A fabulous type lady who always put on their best face, did their hair and makeup, even if it was a random money and they were home doing chores or staring at their diamonds. Where has that desire to be so fabulous gone? And why don't subsequent generations have it? We are doing our best at the nerve to lift it back up. She includes a great quote from Debbie Reynolds. Upon Elizabeth's passing I never felt. Oh no, this was before Elizabeth's passing. She said this to people in 83. I never felt bitter about. Bitter about Elizabeth. Reynolds told People. I don't agree but I think she was. I think enough time had elapsed. A man doesn't leave a woman for another woman, Debbie said, unless he wants to go. That is true. The two remained friends. Elizabeth did broker a piece with Debbie Reynolds. When Taylor died in 2011, she left Debbie Reynolds a sapphire bracelet, necklace and earrings in her will. I will forever love Elizabeth Taylor who described the marriage as a quote, friggin awful mistake. Troublemaker. Sarah, you are a winner. Congrats to every troublemaker who is going to be mailed a signed copy. Let's look at his signature of Rob's book. It started with a whisper. He signed it Naughty but nice. Thank you to everyone who entered and a quick reminder to keep your feedback coming. Oh, if I could just mention very quickly Marlene is going to kill me. But there are two, two Hollywood scandals that were not submitted and I wanted to bring to troublemaker attention the first Jack Nicholson learning after he sat for an interview with Time magazine at age 37, he was already a huge success. The Time magazine reporter was doing fact checking and came to Jack with the news that changed Jack's life forever. They told him that the woman he believed was his sister was actually his mother and the woman that he believed was his mother was actually his grandmother. And I have forever thought that this is the reason Jack Nicholson has had trouble with women. And also he has a daughter named Lorraine who clearly is named after his real mother who he believed for 37 years was his sister, second Morgan Freeman, who had a longtime affair with his step granddaughter. Look it up. Look it up. Anyway, a quick reminder. Keep your feedback coming. Email me @maureen devilmaker media.com or DM me on Instagram at Maureen Callahan, Writer or at the Nerve Show. Remember to subscribe to the Nerves Substack. That is our weekly email of bonus original and exclusive content that is over at the Nerve Show. Go there, sign up and get it up. Next we are going to have a nervy conversation about Mother's Day. We will see you in a minute. Do you know that the condition of your hair, skin, nails, mental clarity and energy all begin with gut health? Adding quality Colostrum to your daily routine can help with all of it. Today's sponsor, Cowboy Colostrum offers the highest quality bovine colostrum available 100% American made from 100% American grass fed cows. Unlike other Colostrum brands, Cowboy Colostrum is true first day whole colostrum and rich in bioactives. 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[Maureen Callahan]

We are back now in the fall. We had a great conversation about how to navigate difficult family dynamics during the often tension filled Thanksgiving and Christmas season or Hanukkah, whatever your holiday is. And to help us through that was Meg Josephson, psychotherapist and author of the bestselling book are you mad at me? Which I cannot recommend highly enough. The subtitle how to stop focusing on what others think and start living for you. And we thought, who better to talk to now that mother's Day is coming up? You know, it's often marketed as just a very, very happy, love filled Hallmark holiday. But for many of us out there, it can be a much more complicated day with very complicated emotions. We asked you guys for your questions for Meg. You gave us so many great ones and she is here with us to give us her insight and expertise. Meg, welcome back to the Nerve.

[Meg Josephson]

Thank you for having me. I'm so honored. And thank you to everyone that submitted questions. They were so thoughtful and vulnerable and really, really soaked them in. So thank you for sharing with us.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, I actually, I sent them to Meg last night and this morning so that she could really sit with them before, so, so it wouldn't be, you know, sort of off the top of her head, brilliant as she is. Hi Maureen and Meg. I've always been very close with my mom. My dad was extremely abusive to my sister and me and I always felt protected by our mom. After having our own kids, we have four, my sister has three. We've realized that maybe my mom wasn't as protective as we thought. It's been really hard to sort out the realization that we would never allow our kids to grow up the way we did. To this day, my mom's entire life is focused solely on keeping my dad from exploding. I cannot help but feel resentment towards her, especially since she is totally dismissive regarding any discussions about his behavior. She has made it clear that if we can't put up with him, we don't get to have a relationship with her. I would love to to hear Meg's thoughts on this mess Meg, this question

[Meg Josephson]

and I think this topic just in general, we're really hitting at something that is under discussed, which is a unique form of grief. And I have an entire chapter about this in Are you mad at me? I think it's chapter three. And it's. It's not just grief, isn't just one when we. Someone passes away, it's also grieving. What we didn't have a mom that didn't protect us, a mom that prioritizes the dysfunction of a very dysregulated father figure. It could be any sort of relationship where we just have this gap, this hunger, this longing for something different. And I think Mother's Day is very triggering for that specific type of grief. So first of all, to this person, I wanna just acknowledge and validate that realization of I really thought my mom protected me and I idolized her for protecting me. And then as I got older, as I've become a mother or as I have, you know, just grown up, I've seen. Oh, actually by staying, she didn't protect me. Or by prioritizing his dysfunction, she didn't protect me in the way that I needed. That is so real. I just think acknowledging and validating that is such an important first step. Another thing just practically to sit with, with this, with this type of grief is that little girl that didn't get protected by your mom from your dad is still within you and still scared, still nervous, still walking on eggshells, still wondering if everyone's mad at her or like if your dad is mad at you. And she still needs protecting now. And the difference is now you are the parent of her, you are the adult of her, and you get to take care of her in the way that she didn't get that care. What does that look like? What does that mean? In relationship to your mom, in relationship to your dad, how does she need to be protected? What does that look like? Now, that's where I would start. Maureen, I'm curious if you have other.

[Maureen Callahan]

Well, my question to you, Meg. Yeah, I do. I have a question. My question to you is this. I think this is such a third rail as a cultural discussion because it's just a given. You're supposed to love your mother. You're supposed to do what makes your mother happy. This writer, I feel, is. I don't even think she realizes she's going to be grieving or is maybe in real grief. It's very difficult to grieve a mother who is still very much with us. But you have come to the Realization she wasn't the mother I needed, I wanted, or I thought that I had. And then what comes up after that is, what do I do with this? Maybe I don't want to be around my mother if she's going to give me an ultimatum, if she's not going to acknowledge my father was abusive and she didn't really protect me, and she won't even apologize for it, let alone acknowledge it. And she hangs our relationship as conditional on me maintaining a relationship with my abuser. And I often feel I may be assuming a little bit more than I should. But sometimes in these questions, I feel like the real one that hangs over it is, do I have permission to exit myself from this relationship, either temporarily, permanently, from time to time? What do you say to that, Meg?

[Meg Josephson]

Yeah. And that piece, too, of the fantasy, the pedestal that we put our parents on as children is really important. As kids, we idolize our parents because the world would feel too scary if we didn't. If we can't think of our parents as these amazing. Or at least just one parent in this case, perhaps it was your mom for believing that she protected you. Oh, she's this amazing protective figure. The world would feel way too scary if you couldn't have that fantasy. Because if she can't protect you, who will? Who's left to protect you? And so as we get older, that fantasy starts to dissolve or they. They drop from the pedestal. That's a very. It can feel very uncomfortable. It can feel very scary. What do I think of her now? Who is she now? How I'm rewriting this story or this belief that I. That I thought I had of her. And so I think that reckoning is a very important initial process before grief, before acknowledging any emotion that's there. And then, yeah, to your point, the question then becomes, okay, if this is the reality of the relationship, what do I need to be okay in this relationship? What boundaries need to be put in place? If there is some conditional thing happening in this relationship, what do I need to be okay as my adult self? Because I'm no longer a child living in that home, I'm no longer needing to be protected by these dynamics. I'm an adult now. What do I need? That's always the first question.

[Maureen Callahan]

And I also think, too, it's important to say to adult children who have survived childhoods such as these, it's okay if your mother doesn't like it. It's okay if she doesn't like you pushing back or saying, I'm gonna sit this year. Out. Or maybe I'm just gonna send some flowers, but I won't be visiting. I've got other. And you know, often, you know, this sort of psychological stranglehold can exist because that child within lives in fear of displeasing the mother.

[Meg Josephson]

That's right.

[Maureen Callahan]

And I think that it's one of those things where you have to say to yourself, it is okay if she doesn't like it. Once you do that, so much of her power dissipates. Now we're on an even playing field.

[Meg Josephson]

Yeah. And I would even take it a step further to say, prepare yourself. She won't.

[Maureen Callahan]

She will.

[Meg Josephson]

She won't like it.

[Maureen Callahan]

That's exactly right. She will not like it.

[Meg Josephson]

The reason is because if she was capable and if any parent, for any situation. We're broadening out here a little, but it applies to this specific listener. If, if the parent was capable of causing that harm, a lot of growth would have to happen for them to see what they did and take accountability for it and to be. Oh, honey, I totally understand. Thank you for setting that boundary. That's probably not going to happen. Expect disappointment, expect agitation. Simply because you're breaking the familiar script, you're doing something new. Of course it's gonna cause some sort of friction.

[Maureen Callahan]

It's actually a sign that you're doing something right for yourself.

[Meg Josephson]

Yeah, that's right.

[Maureen Callahan]

That pushback is actually a sign. Okay, here's another one. Thank you for acknowledging that not everyone loves their mother. My mother was physically abusive, passive aggressive, hypercritical and downright mean to me. Not to the same extent with my two sisters. I was the only one who stood up to her as a teenager. Now I am the one who has to be responsible for her. My older sister is across the country. I don't think that's an accident. My younger sister is an active alcoholic. I feel guilty if I don't go and see her for Mother's Day, Christmas, her birthday, et cetera. Meg, this is the key part. I get depressed for days at the thought of going there and sitting through her phony lovey dovey act. She is in her late 80s, so I feel like I have to do it. I'm not sure which is worse, the guilt and shame of ignoring the events or giving up my inner peace and sitting through it. I think this is the question I mean to ask. Could you laser in, Meg, on the guilt and shame of. And the phraseology here, ignoring the events. I don't necessarily think that's the framing you want. Troublemaker C. This oh, she says I can use her name. Troublemaker Cheryl from New Jersey. Meg, what is your advice?

[Meg Josephson]

Beautiful question. Thank you for it. I think it's very resonant of. There's this trope of being the good daughter, and I think that's unique to daughters. We are, as women, we have this. We have this guilt around everything we do that we're never doing enough, that we're never pleasing enough. And I think it's really important to define here. What is guilt. Guilt says, I did something bad, I did something wrong. I'm doing something that is out of alignment with my morals or my values. And so if you are feeling. Let's zoom out in this question. If you are feeling depressed for days by the thought of going seven times a year, or however, whatever the cadence is, and you decide, you know what, I'm going to go three times, that feels like a number that I'm not resentful about. Let's just hypothetically, right. Are you doing something morally wrong with that? Is that a morally wrong thing thing that is happening? I don't think so. I think it's. I couldn't agree with you more attuned thing. So I think we take our. Our discomfort and we call it guilt because we're seeing it through the lens of deficiency. I'm never doing enough. But I don't think you're doing something wrong here by showing up in a way that allows you to do so sustainably.

[Maureen Callahan]

Because if, Meg, if I can stop you there, I also think there's something very powerful in saying, you know what? I'm gonna skip it this year. You know, maybe for this troublemaker, the number right now is zero. Maybe right now she just needs to take care of herself. It's nobody's business who you do and don't see on Mother's Day. It's nobody's business what you did. I had someone say to me, how will I put this? You know, my mom. You and I were talking yesterday. Both of our mothers have dementia.

[Meg Josephson]

Yep.

[Maureen Callahan]

And so it's a very complicated Mother's Day when your mom is. Is with us, but not with us. And I had an extended family member have the gall to ask me at a family event last year, how often do you see your mother? You know what my answer was internally? None of your motherfucking business.

[Meg Josephson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

Anyway, go on.

[Meg Josephson]

No, it's. It's so. It's so true. It's so complex. And it is no one's business, by the way. And I really want to hit something Home like you're to this listener. Your body's talking to you here. It's very important that you listen. And I know there are a few questions. Maybe we'll get to this. Showing up in the body as illness in some ways, which is 100% real, and just permission to do what your body is needing to do. And guess what? You can always change your mind. It's just you're. You're making a decision about this moment in time. You're not making a rule about the rest of her life and your life. And so I. My. My last point on this, I think, is it's not really. We're not being compassionate if we are showing up but seething with resentment.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes, yes.

[Meg Josephson]

That's not being a compassionate person. But being compassionate means being honest. Being honest of. I. If I go, I will be pissed off at you, at myself. My body will take the toll. Who. Who is that for exactly? You know, as opposed to maybe taking some space, regaining your strength and going back if and when you decide, I'm actually, I want to. I'm going because I want to be going. That there's a difference there.

[Maureen Callahan]

I agree.

[Meg Josephson]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

And the other thing I would say, as. As, you know, child of a difficult home, you know, I think a through line through all these questions, a commonality is being raised by perhaps a very selfish individual.

[Meg Josephson]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

And I would. I would encourage these troublemakers to. To reframe it as well. What would my mother do? You know, my mother was selfish. She put her needs before mine when I was a child. I think that kind of structure can give you permission to go, you know what? I'm going to be selfish today. I'm going to be selfish. You know, just. Just my thought. Okay, now this one. Okay, this one's great. What do you do, Meg, when you see your mother verbally and physically abuse your aging father? My mother has become increasingly rageful, and my father is the recipient. During Thanksgiving a few years ago, she got mad at my dad and physically pushed him in front of all of us. If this happened in public, what is going on behind closed doors? She is so stubborn. She will never admit that she is wrong or has a mental health issue. What does a daughter do?

[Meg Josephson]

Oh, well, let's just acknowledge that is such a hard position to be in. My therapist brain immediately goes to, of course, the more practical of elder abuse. And when it's appro. Reporting elder abuse and, you know, there are systems and structures that exist in supporting you through that and what. What to do and when to Call someone when that is happening. So I just want to first name that those resources exist. I think the, the underlying question I think here is, tell me if you are pulling this out as well. I could be off is what, what can I do to fix this or change this in some way? Or can I, can I change what she is doing? What are you pulling? What are you pulling out? As the.

[Maureen Callahan]

That's what I'm pulling out. She wants to protect her father. She literally says in here, I wish I could put crushed up Xanax, Xanax in her coffee pot to help her. It's that bad. I mean, I think, you know, adult children realize these people when they're in their 80s, they're not going to change. You know, you're not going to rehabilitate the mother or talk her down or anything. And then I think there's also a fear of, well, if you get the authorities involved, the situation could become even worse. Where are they going to put the father? Yeah, you know, it's. So I think that she's really struggling to protect the father without further enraging the mother.

[Meg Josephson]

Yeah, yeah. And I think that safety planning, creating a safety plan for your father, that can look like a lot of different things. That can look like, how are you going to involve yourself if it escalates? Are there other people that you can call on so that you don't have to hold all this by yourself so that you can keep your, your father safe in these situations? And that to go just that to that emotional level, it is so hard. Let's assume this isn't going to change. Let's assume mom's not gonna change. Let's assume this is going to continue. What needs to happen for you to feel like your father is safe and that you can sleep a little better at night without having much context about this person's life. It's hard to say what that looks like. But I think just safety planning in general is the most important and highest priority step.

[Maureen Callahan]

And Meg, you know, what's interesting and sort of unspoken here is this. This clearly is the dynamic. The father is actively not looking to leave. He seems not to be going to the daughter and saying, please help me get out. Can I come live with you? Can I go stay with somebody else for a little bit? So I think part of it too has to be making your peace with the idea that these are grown adults, that this is the dynamic of their relationship. Sick though it may be that people in abusive relationships often don't leave for many reasons. And Maybe you just have to let yourself say whatever you feel you need to say to your father to let him know that you are there for him, but that really, you are extremely limited in what you can do.

[Meg Josephson]

Yeah. Yeah. And that can be. That can be offering him a number to call, a resource to call, and saying, like you said, I'm here for you. And is it there. There's a. There's a tough dynamic happening here where you can't fix this. You can't change. You may not be able to change this, but you can be there in a way while you're also taking care of your sanity at the same time. You know?

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes. Okay. I have one more question for you. Okay. It is all of a piece. I'm glad you're doing a Mother's Day show because some moms are really terrible and should never have been moms. My mother broke my heart. She was emotionally, psychologically, and financially abusive towards me, which was strange because I was never good enough. But I was also the golden child until. Meg, you're gonna. Your alarm bells will go off. I set a boundary that I was no longer going to financially take care of her or do what she wanted. I then became the scapegoat.

[Meg Josephson]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

There's so much I won't get into, but I still can't make sense of how a mother could be so cruel. I remember seeing a smirk on my mom's face when she saw me sad and hurt because my dad was ill. She actually had joy in my suffering. It's still. This is the grief part, right? Yeah. Let's. We're gonna. What I want you to talk about when I'm through with this last. These last two lines is how to actively grieve a mother who did not mother you properly. And I think you're also grieving for yourself. Truly. She says, it still makes me sad to think about. And I wish I had a loving mother. I am curious about what Meg recommends for healing what some call the mother wound.

[Meg Josephson]

Yes. Oh, I just want to be with this listener and validate that hunger for a mom. And I say it like this. And I talk about it in my book as well, of this feeling of, I want my mom, but not my mom. I want my mom, but it's not how it looks like. I just want my mom that is so loving and will take care of me and cares about my pain and my suffering as this listener described. I think the rational brain wants. Tells me, says, what are the steps? How do I grieve? What's the Right way to grieve. And just by acknowledging that there's a gap at all, that there's an I want my mom gap, that you didn't receive the love and care and protection that you deserved. That is everything as an initial step. If we can't have a parent that will acknowledge our pain, the least we can do is acknowledge it within ourselves, acknowledge it to that younger and still present version of ourselves. I believe you. Your pain matters. You didn't deserve that thing. Words. What, what does that little person inside of you need to hear? And with grief, and I talk about this in this chapter as well, comes anger.

[Maureen Callahan]

And yes, anger comes along with it.

[Meg Josephson]

Yeah, they're. They're cousins, they're. They're related in some way. Sisters, whatever anger says that wasn't right, that wasn't fair, that was unjust. And it's okay. If in your grief processing, anger also comes up, allow it to. It's okay. You're allowed to be angry. It's safe to be angry now. I think many of us witness anger in very explosive ways, reactive ways. So we think, I need to be a good girl. Good girls aren't angry. You can be angry. It's okay. It's safe to be angry.

[Maureen Callahan]

It's healthy.

[Meg Josephson]

It's healthy.

[Maureen Callahan]

Sometimes a very healthy reaction. And the other thing you're saying about this, which I love too, is that these emotions are so unpleasant often that we want to just override them, shove them down, ignore them, explain them away. But I think really the only way out is through. You just have to say to yourself, I'm going to feel terrible for the next few days or weeks or months, however long it takes. But I will get that. This is the. This is the way I'll get through it and to the other side, where I can then logically think to myself what is best for me in going forward with a parent who was lacking.

[Meg Josephson]

Beautifully said. And I think we often want to jump to that acceptance or compassion even for that parent or for ourselves. And we can't until we look at that grief and look at that anger and allow it to be there. Because it's not just present day anger. It's all the anger we weren't allowed to feel growing up and all the pain and fear we had to shove down because we had to be the parent in the room. We had to be the good, easy one. Let it, Let it be there now because it wasn't allowed to be there before.

[Maureen Callahan]

Meg, you got to come back for Father's Day. I'll be back. We'll have troublemaker questions. Thank you.

[Meg Josephson]

Thank you for having me. Really appreciate it.

[Maureen Callahan]

We'll see you soon. See you soon.

[Meg Josephson]

Thank you.

[Maureen Callahan]

Bye bye. That does it. That does it for our Friday edition of the Nerve. And any of you out there who are dealing with this around Mother's Day, we truly hope that segment lightened you up just a little bit. It's all going to be okay. Come back and see us tomorrow for a super fun Mini Nerve that drops on YouTube at 10am Eastern. If you haven't already, go check out our substack, our weekly [e-mail] Be sure to subscribe. Plus nerve merch. Go grab something for yourself or pick something up for a fellow troublemaker@shop thenerve.com we will see you tomorrow for the Mini and then again next week back on Tuesday right here at the Nerve, where you will never guess what we're about to say next. The essential Avocado and banana smoothie made with ripe avocado, frozen bananas, organic almond milk, and a generous spoonful of your favorite protein powder. Fueling busy mornings, countless workouts, and the occasional zoom meeting. That should have been an email. The essential energy boost made possible by Vitamix. Only the essential Lots of places can

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