Dirty Diddy Details Overload, Bogus Claims About Drinking Exposed, and Terrible Advice Columns

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Nerve with Maureen Callahan Episode: Dirty Diddy Details Overload, Bogus Claims About Drinking Exposed, and Terrible Advice Columns
Release Date: May 23, 2025

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1. The Diddy Trial Update

Timestamp: 00:02 – 22:27

Maureen Callahan kicks off the episode by delving into the high-profile trial of Sean "Diddy" Combs in Manhattan. Joined by Kayla Brantley, a correspondent for the Daily Mail and host of the podcast Trials of Diddy, they unpack the latest bombshells emerging from the courtroom.

Key Highlights:

• Kid Cudi’s Testimony: Kid Cudi, a prominent rapper, testified, alleging that Diddy orchestrated a campaign of harassment, including blowing up his Porsche with a Molotov cocktail. Kayla reveals, “[Kid Cudi] testified that Diddy broke into his home in December 2011, leading to the arson of his vehicle in January 2012” (02:28).

• Soho House Summit: Despite their tumultuous history, Kid Cudi and Diddy met at Soho House to confront their issues. Kayla describes Diddy’s demeanor during the meeting: “Diddy was standing there with his hands behind his back like a Marvel supervillain” (05:15).

• Allegations of a Criminal Enterprise: The prosecution aims to establish a racketeering conspiracy, suggesting a multi-state criminal enterprise. Kayla notes, “They are waiting to prove this was a big racketeering conspiracy” (03:42).

• Punisher’s Involvement: A sex worker known as the Punisher testified about Diddy’s control over explicit activities involving Cassie. Kayla provides graphic details, including Diddy’s covert manipulation during these encounters (07:36).

• Courtroom Atmosphere: The trial maintains a somber tone despite occasional levity. Jurors and Diddy himself strive to keep composed, with Diddy’s public demeanor contrasting sharply with the gravity of the testimonies (14:45).

• Potential Conviction: While significant allegations have been presented, Kayla assesses the likelihood of Diddy’s conviction as low at this stage, citing insufficient evidence for RICO charges (20:49).

Notable Quotes:

• Maureen: “Kid Cudi's taking his life in his hands by confirming this detail...” (06:32)
• Kayla: “You really can't make it up.” (06:02)

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2. Terrible Advice Columns

Timestamp: 22:27 – 38:52

Transitioning from the intense courtroom drama, Maureen shifts gears to a lighter segment where she humorously critiques and responds to absurd advice questions from the New York Times advice columns.

Key Highlights:

• Ridiculous Scenarios: Maureen tackles bizarre scenarios, such as a woman upset that her fiancé's wife missed their wedding to pursue a dream career. She bluntly labels her as "the asshole," emphasizing personal growth over rigid expectations (25:00).

• Simplistic Advice: She mocks oversimplified answers, like advising a 65-year-old to take senior discounts, showcasing the often patronizing nature of standard advice columns (25:00).

• Capitalism Critique: Maureen ridicules advice that discourages cheating game mechanics in Monopoly, reflecting her frustration with advice that fails to recognize real-world complexities (25:00).

• Audience Engagement: The segment includes reading and reacting to listener emails, blending humor with candid commentary on societal norms and personal accountability.

Notable Quotes:

• Listener: “Your mastery of foul language is nothing less than impressive...” (28:25)
• Maureen: “Who are you to... let her send her best wishes and a nice gift and move on.” (25:00)

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3. Bogus Claims About Drinking Exposed

Timestamp: 38:52 – 61:34

In a thought-provoking discussion, Maureen addresses the recent alarming claims from health authorities that any level of alcohol consumption is hazardous. She invites Dr. Ken Mukamal, a distinguished physician and Harvard Medical School professor, and Professor Edward Sliggerland, a philosophy and psychology scholar, to dissect these assertions.

Key Highlights:

• Challenging the Narrative: Dr. Mukamal presents research indicating that moderate alcohol consumption may not be as harmful as recently portrayed. He references a National Academy of Sciences report showing light drinking is associated with a lower risk of death compared to abstinence (42:07).

• Historical Context: Professor Sliggerland discusses the evolutionary and social roles of alcohol, suggesting that humans have long used alcohol to mitigate existential anxieties and enhance social cooperation. He notes, “We are unique in the animal world in wanting to devote so much effort and time to altering our consciousness” (47:40).

• Critique of Current Messaging: The panel critiques the medical and governmental stance that paints all alcohol consumption as dangerous. They argue that such messaging often cherry-picks negative outcomes (e.g., breast cancer risk) without considering broader health impacts or the benefits of moderate drinking.

• Cultural Impact: They explore the resurgence of temperance movements and the stigmatization of alcohol, contrasting it with historical usage among influential figures like Abraham Lincoln and Winston Churchill who linked alcohol with creativity and leadership.

• Health vs. Morality: The discussion emphasizes the need for nuanced conversations that distinguish between moderate use and abuse, advocating for public health messages that recognize both the risks and potential benefits of alcohol.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Ken Mukamal: “Limited alcohol consumption within the currently recommended limits does not seem to have huge risks to health.” (42:07)
• Professor Sliggerland: “There's good evidence that this is not just a myth. There's actually some empirical evidence.” (56:34)
• Maureen: “Why will the medical community in this moment not have that part of the discussion?” (59:50)

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4. Closing Remarks

Timestamp: 61:34 – End

Maureen wraps up the episode by reiterating the importance of balanced perspectives, both in understanding high-profile legal cases and evaluating health information. She teases upcoming episodes, including a mini-nerve drop featuring a guest who can discuss a wide range of topics.

Overall Tone: The episode blends investigative journalism with candid, humorous commentary, offering listeners an engaging mix of serious courtroom analysis, satirical advice column critiques, and critical discussions on public health narratives.

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Note: Advertisements and promotional segments have been excluded from this summary to focus on the core content discussions.

Transcript

[Maureen Callahan]

Hey. Welcome to the Friday edition of the Nerve. And here in the States, we are going into our first holiday weekend together. It's a milestone. I'm Maureen Callahan, your host, and I am here to serve you, to serve all of you troublemakers, a fresh batch of scandal, sin, celebrity gossip, plus audience emails and what we call real talk about fake people. We also have a great segment about what we are now told. I think this is the perfect segment. Going into a big holiday weekend to kick off the summer. So we are now being told that the perils of drinking alcohol are so grave that even a single drop will kill you. Okay, now, these are warnings I have been skeptical of since they were leveled towards us. And, you know, it may. It may be the Irish in me. Okay. But we are going to have a smart, nuanced, challenging conversation about this with two experts who I am so excited to have on the show and I know you guys are going to love. But first, we are wrapping up week two of the Diddy trial here in Manhattan. And the past few days have seen bombshell after bombshell. So we have got an incredible, incredible expert to break all of this down. Kayla Brantley is a correspondent for the Daily Mail, where I call him twice a week. She's been in the courtroom since the beginning, and she is also the host of the Mail's incredible podcast, the Trials of Diddy. We are so happy to have her. Welcome, Kayla. Thanks for coming to the Nerve.

[Kayla Brantley]

Hey, Maureen, thanks for having me.

[Maureen Callahan]

So give me your post traumatic stress disorder level on a scale of 1 to 10 now that you've been in there two weeks.

[Kayla Brantley]

Yeah, you know, I'd say we're maybe at a six. I think I'm able to keep it together a little bit, but it's just been crazy. Like you said, bombshell after bombshell. Today we had Kid Cudi on the stand. I mean, that's what you expect from a high profile case like this.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes. We have to get into Kid Cudi's testimony for any of the odds audience members who are not familiar. He was a fairly prominent rapper, and he and Diddy, I think they were fighting over Cassie. And, you know, he had told this to the New York Times. But we got a lot more detail today.

[Kayla Brantley]

Oh, yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

That his Porsche, which I believe is how you pronounce it. I'm not trying to be a pretentious asshole. I just think that's how it is pronounced, was blown up like a Molotov cocktail. He was pretty sure Diddy had done it. And also when we got More detail. Like, did he broke into the house and, like, locked up his dog? Like, Please, Kayla, explain. Explain.

[Kayla Brantley]

Yeah, well, exactly like you just said, Maureen. I mean, this was a bombshell testimony. We first heard about this blown up Portia backing Cassie's lawsuit in 2023. And that was a bombshell in and of itself. But today was the first time that we really heard that confirmed out of Kid Cudi's mouth to say, yeah, actually, Diddy broke into my home in December of 2011, and then a few weeks later, in January of 2012, his Porsche blows up by a Molotov cocktail.

[Maureen Callahan]

Kayla, how did he know that it was Diddy who had broken in? And where is this house? Is this New Jersey?

[Kayla Brantley]

No, this was in Los Angeles, Louisiana.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay, so does this sort of go to the feds, piecing together this multi state criminal enterprise that's sort of the spine of their prosecution?

[Kayla Brantley]

Well, it would appear that that's what they're really leading up to here, because that's what everyone's waiting for, for them to really prove that this was a big racketeering conspiracy. An enterprise, if you will. But yeah, so the way that he knew or felt that he knew, of course, you know, Diddy never admitted it, but he was dating Cassie at that time while Cassie was. Yes, Kid Cudi was dating Cassie. 1. While Cassie and Diddy were on a break, she ended up going back to Diddy. And he actually testified that Cassie had told him that Diddy had gotten violent with her, that he had never seen it with his own eyes. But he knew, and this is what he said. He knew Diddy to be a violent man, that he had wanted to talk to him, and Diddy had ignored him. And then finally, after his Porsche caught on fire, he reached out. Kid Cudi reached out to Diddy to say, all right, let's meet. They. They met up at Soho House, spoke man to man.

[Maureen Callahan]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. After Cassie tells Kid Cudi that Diddy has been beating the shit out of her, and then his Porsche is blown up outside his LA home, these two decide to hold a summit at the Soho house at the. So. And. And is it LA or New York, LA.

[Kayla Brantley]

Of course.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay, okay, so for those of you who may not know Soho House, it's like, you know, five grand is like your initiation fee, and you have to go through a whole approval process. I cannot believe Sean Diddy Combs was a member in good standing at the Soho House.

[Kayla Brantley]

Oh, well, it gets better, Maureen. It gets better. Kid Diddy said that when he arrived, Diddy was standing there with his hands behind his back like a Marvel supervillain. That's how he described him. And of course, there was laughter there in court. You know, there was some levity there and that they spoke, you know, man to man. He or Cudi told Diddy, you know, Cassie told me you guys were broken up. They had since broken up. Cudi said that he felt that he got played by Cassie because he really did love her. And she, of course, ended up going back to Diddy. But then when Kid Cudi asked, so, what about my car? Diddy turned around and he completely denied knowing anything about his car. And he said that it was very off putting because he was very calm throughout the whole interaction.

[Maureen Callahan]

Wow. So I would imagine that would be. I mean, they both knew. Everybody knew. I mean, you know, that he told the New York Times that he confirmed that, you know, before. I believe it was before the feds ever brought these charges. I thought to myself, and just my opinion, Kid Cudi's taking his life in his hands by confirming this detail and saying, yeah, I think Sean combs, I'm like 99% sure Sean combs threw a Molotov cocktail into my experience, expensive luxury vehicle and blew it up outside my house.

[Kayla Brantley]

You can't make it up. You really can't make it up. But then back to Soho House. Years later, Cudi and Diddy run into each other at Soho House. Cudi testified that Diddy took him to the side and apologized. And he said he was shocked and he apologized for all of the bs. He didn't go into detail, but that basically confirmed. He said he made peace with it there. And that was.

[Maureen Callahan]

I'm assuming there was no offer on the part of Sean Combs to reimburse Kid Cudi for the cost of that vehicle. Like, let's just say, like, base price, blue Book, you know, after so many years, like, used. Like, let's take a few grand off, but no offer. Okay, I want to ask you also about a couple of details. The Feds. Well, first, let's get to, like, one of the sexier things. And I'm going to show this to our audience because this picture, it looks like it came out of a superhero book for, like, it's like a black superhero gang of S and M superheroes. This is the Punisher.

[Kayla Brantley]

Ah, there he is.

[Maureen Callahan]

The Punisher as reprinted in the pages of the New York Post. This is one of the most amazing photos I've ever, ever seen in my life. So he was a sex worker hired by Cassie and Diddy. And correct me if I'm wrong, Kayla, I believe he testified that he was with them for eight to 10 times. He has written a book called Freezer Meat, which I promise my audience it's on the way. Okay. I tried to get Amazon to ship it. Expedited, no dice. But we'll be. We'll be getting into that next week. And he said that he often had trouble getting it up, frankly, because he felt creeped out by Sean Combs telling him what positions to take and what to do to Cassie. And I'm also curious, Kayla, whatever other color you can add. Plus, what are the faces of the jurors during this kind of testimony?

[Kayla Brantley]

Right. Well, the Punisher. Let's start with the Punisher. He's apparently a very popular escort.

[Maureen Callahan]

Really?

[Kayla Brantley]

He has about 200,000 followers on Instagram.

[Maureen Callahan]

I gotta join.

[Kayla Brantley]

Yeah, the Punisher is on Instagram. So he testified that he at first didn't know who hired him. And it was the second time around that there was a man who had come into the room wearing a burqa or a veil. His face was covered, but the man was naked.

[Maureen Callahan]

I'm dying. This is Sean Combs, by the way, for everybody. Like, Sean Combs enters the room. Okay, we're with a burqa. Is it adorned in any way? Like, I kind of picture like a bejeweled sort of semi tiara going. Just some sort of flare. But maybe just. He was a minimalist.

[Kayla Brantley]

A burqa, a veil. I'm not sure those details. But he was covering his face, so he didn't know it was Diddy, but it was a naked man carrying lubricant, basically being the director and then directing what he wanted to see, you know, with the Punisher and Cassie while he masturbated and watched. So that was after the first time he left with about $1,200 in cash in his hand. And then he comes back, he's in the hotel room. He always had a nice hotel. A lot of times staying at a Trump hotel in New York. And he turns on the TV and sees that the hotel TV has a welcome sign that says, welcome Sean Combs. And that's when he realized who had hired him.

[Maureen Callahan]

Whoa. You know, the Trump International that. I had read that that figured prominently. And that did he like to stay there? And, you know, Jay Z name checked that song very famously. The lyric was something like, I'm at the Trump International. Ask for me. Like, I didn't know it was such a big thing with the hip hop community.

[Kayla Brantley]

Yeah, crazy. I guess so.

[Maureen Callahan]

I live in fear that I have stayed in a hotel room where one of these freak offs happened, quite frankly, and I think a lot of Americans are feeling the same. Now, I also wanted to ask you. So the Fed. There was more testimony this week, or it was presented in court by the prosecution that Diddy was. It may have been the manager or the pa. Like, he was high all day, every day. He was on every kind of drug you could imagine. And also, aside from the drugs and the lube, the feds also picked up here and there some AR15s.

[Kayla Brantley]

Yeah, yeah. So we did get photos from the Miami raid on his house. And there were photos of AR15s. There were photos of 7 inch heels, women's heels, about 13 pairs, I believe. Rope, you know, you looked in the dresser in the closet, tons of baby oil lubricant. What was most intriguing to me was in Diddy's bathroom, there were affirmations written on the mirror.

[Maureen Callahan]

Like what?

[Kayla Brantley]

Different handwritings. Love was one of them. I'm gonna have to look at my notes, but it was ridiculous.

[Maureen Callahan]

Was it like the stuff you would see on like Instagram, like from self help people?

[Kayla Brantley]

I mean, I'm not sure if it was live, laugh, love, but kind of like, you know, affirmations. You know, we.

[Maureen Callahan]

Like, you can manifest this. Like, you can manifest a gang bang at like, say the Four Seasons, something like that.

[Kayla Brantley]

Potentially.

[Maureen Callahan]

Potentially. I mean, who am I to. Who am I to. You know, he's true artist. You know, what am I. Who am I to, like, you know, but so the other thing is that. So Cassie's mother testified.

[Kayla Brantley]

Yes.

[Maureen Callahan]

I mean, I think all of these people are incredibly brave, frankly. I would have been like the witness who vanished. I would have run the other way. But she testified that Sean called her and said, I've got a sexually explicit video of your daughter and if you don't wire me $20,000, I'm going to release it.

[Kayla Brantley]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

Again, what. What are you seeing on the faces of the jury? Because that to me goes to his real sadism. Like, Sean combs doesn't need 20 grand. Okay. He's tormenting her mother psychologically and he's trying to torment her financially. And I believe she testified that she did send the money.

[Kayla Brantley]

Yeah. And this was at the time that Cassie was dating Kid Cudi. So Diddy was extremely jealous, as you can imagine, and going so far as to reach out to Cassie's mother. And she took out, I believe, a refinanced or something against her home. Get the $20,000. Ended up paying it because she feared for her daughter and then eventually got the money back. When Cassie eventually got back with Diddy, oh, my God.

[Maureen Callahan]

So he was basically blackmailing her or bribing her into going back with him. Can you imagine the panic of this woman? Do you know how long it takes to refinance a home? It takes months. He's such a sick fuck. Now to this point, tell me, are the kids still in the courtroom every day? Is his mother still showing up, treating him like a catwalk every day?

[Kayla Brantley]

His mother shows up every day. Janice is there. Yesterday, he was seen blowing her a kiss. You know, he likes to do the heart hands. He calls himself love, one of his many names. His daughters were there. They were actually there for really gut wrenching testimony and really disturbing testimony from Cassie. They were there for the first day of that. They eventually went back to LA to, I believe, attend their prom. So they missed day two of Cassie's just completely disturbing testimony. But his sons are still showing up and they all have his support.

[Maureen Callahan]

His sons are still showing up. I think. I think. I think a crisis manager told him to get those girls out of the courtroom. Frankly, I do. What is the feeling in the courtroom at the end of all of this stuff? I mean, I know the judge is sort of cracking jokes. Like he cracked a joke to the jury telling them to spend their weekend watching the Knicks avenge their game one loss. I mean, good luck. The Knicks always break everybody's heart. But, like, how are. What is the vibe in the courtroom?

[Kayla Brantley]

I mean, it's very sullen. Obviously you're dealing with very disturbing subject matter. But, you know, there was some levity when we spoke about freezer meat, you know, the Punisher in his book Freezer Meat. There was some levity when Kid Cudi testified that all he could think was, what the f. So, you know, there is some laughter, but the jurors are really keeping straight faces. They're trying not to show much emotion. Same as Diddy. He's keeping a straight face. He'll whisper to his attorneys, pass notes to his attorneys, but everyone's really just playing it cool.

[Maureen Callahan]

I've also heard that he is being very chummy with members of the media, that he's like winking, nodding, greeting people. I would, I would, I would bet it sounds like a Harvey Weinstein esque attempt to Curry favorite. The other thing about the trial that I find fascinating, who was it who testified? I think it was a personal assistant who said he was at. So before a freak off and again, like how many people knew? It seems like there was a small army taking care of the logistics and making sure there was enough lubricant and baby oil and drugs and what have you, IV fluids. Because these things would go on for days and the. They'd all pass out from the drugs or just exhaustion and they'd have to be refueled. And I don't think they were grubhubbing it like. Right. And also here's a question that I really, before we get to the pa, occurred to me, was he, was Sean Combs also renting out adjoining rooms? Because I can imagine being in a room next door and hearing this shit go on and I would be down at the front desk like right quick.

[Kayla Brantley]

That's actually a great, great question. And I mean, I think like you said, he had a team of people, so they must be staying with him, near him. So I would assume. So you'll have to fact check me on that one. Whether or not they did get adjoining rooms. But you brought up the IV and you brought up his mom. When he first, I believe, got arrested, a photo resurfaced of him. It was a selfie of him and his mom getting IVs together. What, so it was a thing? It was a thing.

[Maureen Callahan]

Is it, is it a.

[Kayla Brantley]

Okay, I mean, what is she at the freak offs? I'm not saying that, but just.

[Maureen Callahan]

I know you're not.

[Kayla Brantley]

There's a photo.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, no, no, I know you're not, Caleb, but we have seen, I've seen at least one photo of Sean Combs and his mother going in for a kiss. And they do not look like mother and son. And if you want to think mothers.

[Kayla Brantley]

Kiss their children on the lips, I.

[Maureen Callahan]

Mean, I feel like that's a 45 year old man. I don't mean I find it. I personally, and I think most people find it extremely. I mean, they're looking at each other lovingly and the eyes are closing and they're going in for a kiss on the lips. And it really looks very disturbing just to my mind. And you know, when somebody becomes this depraved, you know, you sort of wonder like, what was the root of it, you know. But I wonder too if the other rooms were, say, taken up by people who belong to Diddy's army, You know, did he have surveillance cameras in those rooms recording these freak offs without the knowledge of the participants?

[Kayla Brantley]

Well, that is one thing that we're definitely going to look at to see if that evidence does come forward. Because there have been whispers of you know, did he had cameras everywhere? Did he had dirt on people? So this is one of the things that we have been hearing, and we're just waiting for the prosecution to bring that evidence forward.

[Maureen Callahan]

Now, I want to get to two other things before I have to let you go. This. My time with you is already flown, and I do hope you'll come back because you're incredible and you're doing the Lord's work in that courtroom. I hope they give you a raise.

[Kayla Brantley]

Thank you.

[Maureen Callahan]

So, Wendy Williams, I. I forget the way in which it came out today, that what we were all reminded that Wendy had years ago said, I think, on her show, that Sean Combs is gay and everyone in the hip hop community knows it, and that he also tried. I forget whether he tried and was successful or tried and failed to get her fired. I think when she was at Hot 97, because she was talking some real talk about him, in my opinion.

[Kayla Brantley]

Well, one thing that I think everyone can agree with, and you see this in, like, the Harvey Weinstein case and the Jeffrey Epstein case, is that these things were an open secret. I feel like that is just the recurring theme. And it's. You know, everyone was saying it. You have quotes, you have videos of people saying, oh, yeah, what goes on at a Diddy party? Everyone knew that something.

[Maureen Callahan]

LeBron, LeBron, everyone. Party. Like a dinner party.

[Kayla Brantley]

Exactly.

[Maureen Callahan]

And this is what's driving me nuts, too, because, like, nobody in the hip hop community is talking about this at all. Like, at all. Except for 50 Cent, who, by the way, has been. His. His Instagram account is on fire. Okay. And he has been floating this theory that there are supporters, quote unquote, of Diddy's outside the courthouse wearing T shirts that say free Diddy. And 50 Cent is saying that Diddy's paying these people, like 20 bucks an hour, like Amazon wages.

[Kayla Brantley]

I did see that. Yeah. The thing is, if you're a celebrity, you want to distance yourself from this as far as possible. 50 Cent has always had a rivalry, a back and forth with Diddy. But if you're any of his friends, other than really, Kanye is the only one who's coming out in support of Diddy. But I don't think anyone really wants Kanye.

[Maureen Callahan]

So well deserved. No one wants Water seeks its Own level. I love it. Yeah, I know. Well, Kanye just said that he's done with anti Semitism and he's going to rehab. So, you know, I know. Maybe.

[Kayla Brantley]

I hope so. I hope so.

[Maureen Callahan]

But maybe it's someone to have in your corner. I don't know. I mean, I think. Okay, I, I know we're early into the trial, but before I let you go, if you were a betting woman, what do you think the chances are that Sean Combs is convicted on something?

[Kayla Brantley]

I think they're low right now. I think they're. Right now. In the opening statements, Diddy's defense team said, this is a man guilty of abuse of domestic violence. You know, you're going to hear about kinks that you might find uncomfortable, but they are not going to prove the charges with which he's charged with. And so far, I don't think racketeering, running a criminal enterprise running. Exactly. And so far, you know, the testimony has been depraved and it's been unsettling. But I haven't seen them prove these RICO charges. Not yet.

[Maureen Callahan]

So, Kayla, if they can prove, say, because this is how they got a former New York governor named Elliot Spitzer who, like, took office and was like, I'm the new sheriff in town and I'm morally upright. And then it was like, well, he's trafficked a woman across state lines to pay for sex, and so he was done. If they can prove that Diddy transported sex workers across state lines, then does the prosecution have something of a slam dunk, technical though it may feel?

[Kayla Brantley]

Technically, I would say yes. But, I mean, the Punisher, he's a New York local and he was hired to go to Trump International in New York. So I just haven't seen that proven yet.

[Maureen Callahan]

Well, I can't thank you enough for your time and your expertise, and I hope you have a Silkwood shower this weekend, and I will be talking to you soon. Thank you so much for joining us on the Nerve.

[Kayla Brantley]

Thank you, Maureen. Have a nice weekend.

[Maureen Callahan]

You, too.

[Kayla Brantley]

Bye.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay, now, I hope we all can just sort of shake all of that off a little bit. I mean, we had to do it because this has been a wild week in federal court in downtown Manhattan. But we're gonna do a palette cleanser. Okay, so next up, you guys have said you like it, and I love it, too. So we are going to do some more comic readings of New York Times advice columnists. Okay? And the questions, which are equally bonkers. And we have a little bit more for you in that segment as well. So back in a minute. We've all heard it before. Wrinkle creams are the secret to looking younger. But according to Beverly Hills cosmetic surgeon Dr. John Lakey, that's just not true anymore. He says most wrinkle products are nothing more than overpriced moisturizers, and some might even do more harm than good. And that's why Dr. Laki stepped away from traditional treatments and developed something completely different. A simple at home method that's getting major attention. His clients call it the age rewinder method because it can visibly smooth the look of wrinkles in under two minutes. Dr. Lakey describes it as almost like Photoshop for your face and says that you might be shocked at how easy it is to use. So to share this breakthrough, he's released a free video that walks you through the method step by step. No signups, no interruptions. And his video has already gone viral with over 2.3 million views and thousands of glowing reviews. One said, I've tried everything and this is the only thing that actually worked. I look years younger. If you want to see what everybody's talking about, just go to bhmdi1.com nerve or click the link in the description. And if it works for you, Dr. Lakey has one simple request to please share it. And let's help more people feel confident in their skin.

[C]

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[Maureen Callahan]

We are back and as I promised, next we've got some more ridiculous, ridiculous advice questions written by ridiculous people into the New York Times, where even more ridiculous people posit themselves as experts and answer these questions. So let's get into a few of these gems. Okay? Big day, big dream. This is a social cue. I am getting married in two weeks and I'm really excited. Oh, shit. Okay. We have been planning this wedding for nine months. The fiance's brother is in the army. Okay. Yesterday he told my fiance, the brother told her future husband that his wife should. I assume it's a future husband. I probably shouldn't anyway, that his wife would not be joining him at the wedding last week. Okay, this is the class issue part of it that's coming in. She auditioned to be a dancer for a professional football team and was offered the job. Parens. There's a game on our wedding day. I am shocked and hurt that she made this decision, exclamation point. I am also shocked that my future brother in law who's in the army supports his wife's choices. Even my future mother in law is making excuses for her, saying it's always been her dream. Should I accept her decision or call her to tell her how disappointed I am now? She wants the answer to be the latter. Okay? And I am here to tell you lady, that you are the asshole in this scenario, okay? You are the asshole. His brother's in the army. This woman has a dream and she realized it. And maybe it's not yours, I don't know. Are you fucking splitting the atom? She is on the way to realizing her. It's just self actualizing, as it were. Let her. Let her send her best wishes and a nice gift and move on. You're not even going to realize she's not there. Who cares? Next question. The ethicist by someone who has three names. Okay, question. I will be 65 early next year and eligible for a range of senior citizen discounts. Should I take them? Yes. Asked and answered. Next question. My grandchildren love playing Monopoly. The board game has become a great way to interact, blah, blah, blah. Oh, and a great way for them to see capitalism in. In all its imperfect glory. The problem, because these people always find a problem. This is where people who always find a problem congregate in the advice sections of the New York Times. Okay, One of the cards a player may draw when landing on Community Chest is bank error in your favor. Collect $200. Right. As it ever has been. When we first started playing the game, I removed the card from the set. I did so because it taught the wrong lesson. The proper thing to do when there is a bank error in your favor is to report it and return the money. Who the fuck is raising these kids? Oh my God. Banks are like predatory sharks, okay? Like do you know what they're. Do you look at your bank statement? Do you see what they charge you in monthly fees? You know, if they're telling you they made an error in your favor, you take that win, you idiot. Okay, final question and then we go to audience email. We're visiting Paris for spring break.

[Kayla Brantley]

But.

[Maureen Callahan]

We are embarrassed by America's far right politics. Trump. They're embarrassed by Trump. My wife plans to wear a maple leaf pin to pass for a Canadian. This is like you're a Jew in Nazi Germany and you're trying to pass is not a Jew. Oh my effing God. And wants me and the kids to wear one too. I worry that it would compromise our integrity. I think that took off a long time ago and insult Parisians who discover the truth like they give a shit about you. Okay, but the deception could make our trip more pleasant. What do you think? And the advice is to spare yourself having to pretend you know the words to oh, Canada. Nothing like a little American snobbery thrown in. Even if it's a publication that hates most of things America stands for. Okay, now I'm going to read your emails and I'm going to start, by the way, with some of this comment I believe came on YouTube and it was so freaking good, I pulled you out. Whoever you are, I love you. Okay? I love you, Maureen. You are divine. Thank you. Your mastery of foul language is nothing less than impressive. This touches me deeply. And I mean that. It really does. I'm a Southern woman. We embrace foul language and we sound a bit, you know, whatever. You don't sound like low class. But when you say things like I shit you not, fuck you, Megan. And when speaking of her Majesty, the late Queen, may she rest, you sound like a true Southern person with good foul language skills. You are a high end New Yorker journalist with the cussing skills of a girl from a southern trailer park and I adore you. Keep it fucking real, homegirl. You got it. I love this email. Okay, next. There is something else we need from the nerve and I cannot do it alone. Asked and answered, my friend. We need an anti woke movie rating system like we do for PG&R. I don't want to read suicide in a trigger warning because now I know what's going to happen in a film or show. Like, great point. I hate the movie rating system and I recommend a new one. This one begins trigger warnings for a trans kid. A snotty trans kid who insults everyone. Single dads with sassy kids. Agreed. Inept dads. Agreed. Biracial single parent families. Moms who think it's cute when their children curse back throuples. Girl bosses who go girl each other. I agree with you. Okay. Maureen, I am so glad you chose to speak on the topic of nepo babies. I worked for many years in Washington. I was a senior fellow at A ei. I saw nepotism in action again and again. My father said to me once you've done very well in your industry, especially considering I wasn't in it. That pretty well sums it up. Mark Falcoff. Thank you, Mark. Hi, Maureen. It may be funny or fun to track viewer ratings from the same weeks that Meghan Markle's podcast started and dived with a news Article from Sky News attached. And the Nerve podcast started and soared. And I love you. I love you. Okay. Hi, Maureen. I'm writing to congratulate you on your greatly perceptive expose. Well, thank you. Of the New York Times morbid death rattle. We did that, I think, last episode. Especially on your brilliant praise for the wonderful Pamela Paul. Pamela and I have been email friends since before she left the Times. I believe this is true. You sound authentic. Your remarks about her were accurate. And while the Times should feel punched in the face by your words, Pamela, they won't. Pamela will no doubt feel warmth. On the off chance she didn't already know, I let her know about it and I sent her to the 47 minute mark. If she weren't already a fan. I'll bet she is now. I hope so. I love her. I admire her work so much. And she has an open invitation to come on the Nerve whenever she wants. Hi, Maureen. Okay, my theory about why Michelle is bitching and moaning so much is because now that Barack is no longer running the country in his third term, he's around again and you know, he's driving her nuts. Great theory. Another one. If Kamala had been elected, Markle would have for sure been itching for some sort of administration job. Or perhaps she would want to be an ambassador to some country. Thank the Lord that won't be happening. You know, if that idiot Caroline Kennedy agreed could be an ambassador to two countries, we apologize. Markle would have been going somewhere. Caroline couldn't even read the teleprompter each and every year at the Kennedy Center Honors. And it was the same, same words each time. We in New York know she is a moron. Hi, Maureen. Do you think that a truly kind a list celebrity exists? If so, then who? I will say I know a couple of people who have met Tom Cruise. Loved him, loved him. Um, but I think this is a great thing. Like I'd love to hear from you guys in the wild who have ever had an encounter with or saw a celebrity and you know, they lived up to it or not. This is your final email is about Jessica Biel on the View. Her husband is still laying low after that embarrassing DUI or dwi. I forget which it was that he got in Sag harbor, where, you know, everybody out in the Hamptons in the summer, they drive drunk. It's a lot of rich entitled people who are like, fuck you. I won't do what you tell me. I own the planet. I'm a big star. They all drive drunk. Jessica is doing Herself no favors showing up on the View. My guess, which we all share, trust me, are all of like minds, is that 90% of humans who watch the View are hate watchers. Of course Jessica may pick up a few fans, but the emetic level of disgust, great word of even your house pets as they look at the well okay, here she goes. That Jessica Biel said on the View. I'm just doing what I have to do to get out I guess of the house on time. I got, I guess school drop off at 8:30. I got to get there. Stop the fucking presses. 8:30. Jesus. I worked construction for the last 25 years and we in the trades were on the job at sunrise. I know many of you and you have my undying respect. Our wives were up as we left the house and somehow even without two nannies, landscapers, delivery boys, girls, cooks, illegal immigrant households staff, you've got this. And the pool boy she is probably porking allegedly. This is this viewer. We not only got to the job on time, we had conversations with people in gas stations who got up before we did. I could not have said any of this better than myself. I couldn't have said it better myself. Sorry I tripped that up. But you know what I'm saying and you guys are all brilliant and we're all like having a mind meld. Okay? And you know as to some other emails I've gotten from you, especially off the backs of reading the New York Times stuff, if you want to ask me for advice, I'll give it to you straight, I'll give it to you quick, I'll give it to you painlessly and you won't doubt where I'm coming from. Okay? We can make it a recurring segment. We could call it Ask Maureen and you know, just work up your nerve to ask me. So as always, email me with questions, with thoughts or feedback. I am Maureenvilmadcaremedia.com and remember to like subscribe and spread the word about the nerve, because the faster we grow, the faster we can provide more of the content that you guys are asking for. Next up, I have two incredibly smart, incredibly cool, incredibly provocative guests who are going to join us for a discussion about whether all of the messaging we have been getting about having a cocktail being just a. You're. You're a degenerate and you're an alcoholic and it's going to kill you and get out of here, you filthy, just disgusting cretin. We have two people, a medical doctor, like a fancy super credentialed medical doctor and an incredibly bright nimble like this guy is so brilliant professor slash author. And they get it. They get it. And so we're going to have a talk about that right after this. 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[C]

Many people avoid seeking mental health support due to fear of being judged this Mental Health Awareness Month. Let's break the stigma surrounding seeking support at Better Help. We have over 10 years of experience matching you with the right therapist which can help you and everyone in your life. We're all better with help. Visit betterhelp.com today for 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp hp.com.

[Maureen Callahan]

So I was bound and determined to bring you guys this conversation as we head into Memorial Day weekend and kick off the summer in traditional style with beach, barbecues, burgers and for those of you who partake, beer, wine, cocktails, spritzers, whatever your drink of choice is. But to listen to the scolds in the medical and governmental establishment, if you drink, you die. Okay? Since 2023 the World Health Organization has warned that quote, no level of alcohol is safe for our health and the CDC has followed suit. And I quote the cdc, even moderate drinking may increase your risk of death and other alcohol related harms compared to not drinking the Mayo Clinic. Drinking alcohol in any amount carries a health risk. Really? I mean, this may be the most Irish conversation I've ever had. But why now? Why these? Why these dictates that it's. It's not. You can. Enough. None of it. None of it. Okay. Here to help us critically take apart these new dictates. I'm so excited. These guests are incredible. Dr. Ken Mukamal, distinguished physician. He is also the associate Chief for research in General medicine at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical center. And he is a professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School who has done extensive research on the health effects of alcohol consumption. Also joining us is Professor Edward Sliggerland, author of how we Sipped, Danced and Stumbled Our Way to Civilization. Edward is a fellow of the Royal Society of Canada, Distinguished University Scholar, professor of Philosophy at the University of British Columbia, where he also holds appointments in departments of Psychology, Asian Studies. He's been educated at Princeton, Stanford, and UC Berkeley. So these two know what they're talking about. Now, I would like to start with Edward, who I was introduced to on an episode of the Joe Rogan Experience that aired about just about 10 months ago. Take a look at this clip.

[D]

Do you use. You must use alcohol. Yeah, yeah, I like a little bit of alcohol and a little bit of marijuana mixed together.

[Maureen Callahan]

It's good for writing.

[D]

It's also good for performing. You know, it's like don't give a fuck sauce.

[Maureen Callahan]

You don't give a fuck sauce. I mean, I think like if we troublemakers developed a signature cocktail, it would be called don't give a fuck sauce. Thank you, Edward and Dr. Ken for joining me today for this discussion. First, I would like to ask Dr. Ken, you know, you study, we said that you know the health effects, but from what I've read of some of your writings, you point to potential health benefits from alcohol. And we're talking moderate, we're not talking heavy drinking. Can you sort of explain your findings and why it is you think we are now subject to the sort of blanket dictates that any amount of alcohol will eventually kill us?

[E]

Well, it's a tough question to answer in a short time, but to kind of condense it down the. We're looking at a whole bunch of different kinds of effects, right? Because alcohol can affect your heart, it can affect your liver, it can affect your brain. So there's all different kinds of effects. And one of the Problems we're seeing where you get these sorts of messages is it's easy to dial down on one of these. I'll give you an example. We've known since the 1980s that even small amounts of alcohol probably increase a woman's risk of getting breast cancer, but by a small amount, by about a 10% increase over her otherwise medium risk. Now that sounds bad, but what they don't tell you is that there's other kinds of cancer that alcohol seems to reduce the risk of, really. So if all we're doing is picking and choosing specific endpoints, specific diseases, then it's easy to come up with dictates like that. When we look at this across the board, trying to integrate everything together, it more or less looks like limited alcohol consumption within the currently recommended limits does not seem to have huge risks to health. Whether it has benefits or not, I think is somewhat of a harder call. But it's interesting that the National Academy of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine just came out in January with a very detailed report and it showed that compared with not drinking, limited drinking, right. Light drinking was associated with lower risk of dying. So that goes exactly.

[Maureen Callahan]

That's the messaging we got. That's the messaging we got prior to this new messaging from the World Health Organization, et al, that told us, you know, at blue zones, the people who live to be 100, they're all having wine with lunch, you know, they're taking siestas, their stress levels are lower, they socialize more. And I find this doctor before I come to you, Edward. Dr. Ken, I find this so interesting because we have just come out of lockdown. I mean, this is like a blink of an eye. This was five years ago. And during that time, drinking in this country soared. No surprise, right? Drinking, drinking levels increased among the population. We are also now coming out of a lockdown where we have been told, guess what, we made a lot of this stuff up. We told you the vaccine was totally safe. There's a new study that just came out or a story that broke yesterday that the Biden administration was squelching data showing that the COVID vaccine was having major deleterious effects in some people that it wasn't totally safe. They told us six feet apart was something they just made up in New York. You had to be double vaxed to go anywhere or do anything. And so I feel like there's this complete tension between like a government that just and a medical industrial complex that just told us 100% they knew for certain what we should all be doing to get through the pandemic, but now they're reversing on that. But now they know this about alcohol for sure.

[E]

I can't speak to the whole vaccine question, that's not something I study. But I can certainly say that in this case the, the data actually hasn't changed very much. That's why this panel could come out and show that in fact, using the most up to date data, the risk of dying overall seems to be a little bit lower if you drink a small amount of alcohol relative to none. But you know, if you're eager to try to show that alcohol is entirely bad for you, there's ways to do that because you can cherry pick again. And that I think is sort of been where they've been so successful that by choosing things like say, breast cancer, it's easy to say, look, there's a risk from light drinking. That's true. There's also a risk, you know, of getting in a car accident. If you get in your car, it doesn't mean that the risk outweighs the benefit, but it does mean that there's some risk. And I think that's sort of the misconception that we're seeing across the board here.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, I would love to see frankly, the same messaging to your point about like distracted driving when it comes to this. No out like the amount of increased car accidents and deaths on the road because everybody's texting. Nobody can stay off their phone even at a red light. They have to distract themselves. And Edward, to this point, I wanted to ask you because I find your book fascinating. Your book is all about the evolutionary like, basically, as, as soon as we split off from the Neanderthals and became fully formed humans, we've all been trying to figure out how to get fucked up, basically. Right.

[D]

They were probably getting messed up too. The whole, it goes way back in our, it goes way back in our primate line. Yeah. There's some new data. Chimpanzees are also using fermented fruit socially. So.

[Maureen Callahan]

Well, you know, we see this once in a while with like bears breaking into like, you know, suburbans and like finding the beer in the back. Yeah. So I wanted to ask you what you make. So my theory, my, my base level theory is as to why humans have always wanted to alter their consciousness, whether it be with alcohol or any other kind of drug, is that we are the only animal, as far as we know on the planet that knows we are going to die someday and that everyone we love is going to die someday. If we don't predecease them. And I think that's frankly a very heavy load to carry around on the daily. Like we all don't like, think of it all the time, but it's there. What do you make of my little. My thumbnail sketch of your book?

[D]

Well, that is one of the functions of alcohol. It reduces anxiety. It gives you, I call this function the vacation from the self. So it gives you a kind of little vacation from cognitive control where you're not monitoring yourself as carefully as you normally do. And that's a very important individual level effect. But I also talk in the book about the social level effects of enhancing individual creativity and group innovation, enhancing cooperation, acting as a social lubricant, helping people to overcome cooperation dilemmas and trust each other in situations. So we are, what I argue in the book is, you know, we're unique in the animal world in wanting to devoting so much effort and time to altering our consciousness. We've been doing it, figuring out ways to get messed up as long as we've been doing anything in an organized fashion as a species. And that's because we're a weird species. And as you say, part of it is the consciousness self awareness. We can, we know the future, we have anxieties about the future. But we also are unusual in that we're primates, but we cooperate with an intensity and a level that looks more like social insects. And we're just not. We're chimpan, more like chimpanzees than we are like termites. And yet we cooperate with strangers all the time in ways that are very puzzling. We're completely dependent on technology, which means that we're dependent on innovation, that we're constantly having to innovate, running just to stand still. We're a strange species. We're creativity dependent. We're trust dependent in a way no other species is. And that's one of the reasons we've developed this cultural technology.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, it's fascinating. In your book you posit the theory that agriculture was actually an outgrowth of the lengths that early humans would go to to find ways to ferment beer or find some, you know, that they would walk miles and miles just to get that, that fix. Have either of you heard? So I've heard rumblings about this because I find this new movement so fascinating medically and culturally from the medical standpoint. Dr. Ken, as you were saying, you know, I'm a woman, I go to the doctor every year and I get the same messaging vis a vis breast cancer and Frankly, I find it offensive because I feel as though I am being told, if you have a cocktail and you get it, it's your fault. I told you. I told you.

[E]

Which is crazy. Right? Because even if we eliminated all alcohol, because the added risk from breast cancer from drinking is so small, even if we eliminated all alcohol in our studies, we would still have 96% of the breast cancer left.

[Maureen Callahan]

Really?

[E]

Yeah. So this is just really not. It's not a huge contributor nationwide to breast cancer, statistically, in contrast. Right. It'd be important to have that same conversation with you about, say, your risk of diabetes because it turns out that if you drink with meals and, and it's probably important to, To. To have that drinking with meals, that tends to lower blood sugar after a meal and probably lowers your risk of diabetes. Well, if your doctor's only giving you half the story, then you're not a fully informed consumer.

[Maureen Callahan]

Who is. What lobby is behind this? Because as I was getting to the rumblings I've read online, and I'm trying to investigate this because I find it fascinating, we are like 100 years later entering a new social medical practice, Prohibition almost. I mean, here in New York, there's a cocktail bar that opened that doesn't serve booze. Okay. It's insane to me. It's insane to me. And I've been hearing rumblings that there's a temperance, like a new temperance movement behind this that judges alcohol consumption as a moral failing.

[E]

Yeah. But it's certainly true that there's interest from temperate existing temperance societies that grew out of, you know, the, the temperance societies from 100 years ago that were relig religiously based and tried to get everybody to drink no alcohol at all. And at least some of the people on science side who have been most vocal about eliminating all drinking and highlighting the fact that even a tiny bit of drinking might be ready to kill. You have, at a minimum, spoken to and collaborated with temperance societies, frankly, that I think.

[Maureen Callahan]

How are they getting such a foothold? Dr. Ken? How are they? Because I'll tell you, in New York City, I walk by any, any number of hospitals and the number of medical professionals I see outside smoking or who I can tell, tipple themselves, you know, it's like it's. There's a. There's a high rate of addiction in that world. Like, how is the. Where are they getting their money? How is the temperance society affecting the medical industrial complex in this country?

[E]

I wish I knew the answer to that. But it's funny that if you look back at what the concerns have been over the last 30, 40 years in this. It's all about how the alcohol industry must be secretly working with doctors to try to show that a little bit of drinking is good for you. And so the concern about conflict of interest has always come from that side. Well, our research has never been funded by industry, not a single penny of it. And yet we've consistently shown, again, things like lower risk of diabetes and lower risk of heart disease associated with limited drinking. So I think part of it has been that physicians and researchers have been so primed to look for conflicts of interest from industry that they just totally miss the fact that there's a whole bunch of other kinds of conflict of interest, religious conflicts of interest, there's personal conflicts of interest. And, you know, in this case, you've got temperance societies taking advantage of it.

[Maureen Callahan]

Edward, in your book, you know, you speak about some of the. The brilliant minds who, you know, one of my favorite quotes historically was Gabe Lincoln, when General Ulysses S. Grant was turning the tide for him. And, you know, he was hearing that, you know, well, he's like, he's a, he's a, he's a hardcore drunk, you know, And Abe Lincoln said, well, I wish I knew what brand of whiskey he drank. I'd send him a barrel. You know, I wish all my generals would. I would send all my generals a barrel. And you know, some of our most brilliant minds, from Aristotle to Winston Churchill, Vincent Van Gogh, you know, even today. This is not booze, it's psychedelics. We think Elon Musk is, you know, very big on psychedelics. Have you found any studies that try to find correlation between people who, who are really quite brilliant and maybe don't fit inside heterodox or orthodoxy of thought boxes and alcohol consumption?

[D]

Yeah, well, I report one study. There's only been one study directly exploring alcohol as a manipulation and creativity with a placebo control. And it found that if you get people do about.08 BAC, so basically about when and drive operate motor vehicle anymore, your. Your creativity peaks. So your ability to solve these lateral thinking tasks where you have to kind of make connection between unconnected things improves. And we know the mechanism actually pretty well. So the prefrontal cortex is very important part of your brain. It's the most recent part of the human brain and you need it. It's what allows you to, you know, resist to sweet when you're on a diet and plan for the future and get up and get to work on time. Um, but it also interferes with creativity we have very good evidence that when the prefrontal cortex is in control, you're. You're good at doing stuff like your taxes or adding numbers together. Things where you go from A to B to C. It interferes with things.

[Maureen Callahan]

That make you want to drink, basically, yeah.

[D]

The things that make you want to drink. The. It's. What it interferes with is your ability to make connections, to kind of make creative leaps. And so there's. There's a whole body of evidence on prefrontal cortex interfering with creativity. Developmental evidence that children are better than adults because their PFC is not as well developed. If you have a stroke and your PFC gets damaged, you suddenly get better on doing these lateral thinking tasks. So, yeah, there's a huge body of evidence. I point out, across the world throughout history, there's been this association of alcohol and artists, people who think of new things. There's good evidence that this is not just a myth. There's actually some. Some empirical evidence.

[Maureen Callahan]

Interesting. I would love to see more studies like that. I also thought it's very hard to.

[D]

Get human subject approval to do studies like that. That's why there's only one.

[Maureen Callahan]

What do you mean, human subject approval? Like, you mean from.

[D]

To do a study to get approval, you have to know you have to get approval from the university. There's a. Usually an ethics board at the university and they have to approve the study. And it's very hard to get human subject approval if you're doing an alcohol study.

[Maureen Callahan]

But they've done tons of studies with lsd, right?

[D]

I wouldn't say tons, but there's been.

[Maureen Callahan]

Enough in terms of psychopharmacology. You know, it's interesting to me because I just want to say two things. I know my time with you guys is sadly coming to an end, and I do hope you'll come back because I think this is going to be an ongoing discussion. To your point, there have been a lot of studies as well that willpower is a finite resource in human beings, and that goes to daily use of willpower. So as you said, you get up in the morning and you have your coffee and you get to work and you do your tasks and you pick up your kids and you're doing your errands and everything you're supposed to do, and by the end of a day, you're depleted. And as you say, Edward, in your book, most people do not opt, as we are constantly told on Instagram by wellness influencers, to go take a jog or do some meditation. They like to have A glass of wine. Could you please explain this in lay terms for those of us who are constantly being told we're failing if we have an evening cocktail?

[D]

No, it's a, it's a ritual that helps mark the shift from the workday where you're on and going, doing things to relaxation in the evening. The pharmacological effects, it's down regulating your self monitoring so you're not paying attention to yourself in the normal way you do. And it's, it's. The other big chemical effect of ethanol is it's boosting these feel good hormones. So it's boosting endorphins, serotonin. It's making you more relaxed and feeling kind of good about your life, feeling good about yourself and other people. That's why it's used as a social lubricant universally. So it's got, alcohol's got these very. Humans use it. You know, my book is about Alcohol is dangerous. If you're prone to alcohol use disorder, it can be a very dangerous substance. It probably has some negative health effects. But we've been using it as a species forever because it has these really crucial functions that are really difficult to replace with yoga or drinking a smoothie at the end of the day, it's just not going to have the same effect on your brain.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh my God, I think that's so great. I think you're 100% right. And Dr. Ken, to that point, that great point that Edward just made, why is the medical community right now in lockstep and unable to have a nuanced, mature conversation about some of the salutary effects of alcohol, even if it's just making your day feel. You've ended a day, you've dealt with some stuff, you feel a little bit lighter, your stress level comes down. Why will the medical community in this moment not have that part of the discussion?

[E]

You know, it's a great question. There are folks in the medical community, I think, trying to bring in this idea that at least some of the benefits of alcohol relate to social lubrication, right? This idea that we have an epidemic of loneliness in America. It's okay to, to, to acknowledge that at least part of social behavior in humans is related to alcohol. And at least from our health, from a health standpoint, we know that the healthiest way to drink is right? Is that kind of Mediterranean style, right? Sit down over a meal, have some wine and enjoy company of, you know, people together. I, we know that the Mediterranean lifestyle helps people live the longest. And somehow we've managed to take some of the dietary pieces of that Mediterranean lifestyle and strip away all the other things, including the wine and including the social piece. I hope we'll get it back.

[Maureen Callahan]

The fun. Yeah, absolutely.

[E]

It'd be a matter of. So, you know, hopefully the National Academy report that came out in January will help stimulate some of this discussion or at a minimum, I think maybe try to reverse some of the trend we've seen toward just all alcohol is not just bad, but it's going to kill you tomorrow.

[Maureen Callahan]

Thank you. Thank you both Dr. Ken and Edward for helping all of us go into this Memorial Day weekend a little bit lighter and not so panicked to crack open a cooler and have a beer with our barbecue as we welcome Summer. Thank you both so much for being here and I do hope you'll come back.

[D]

Thanks for having me very much.

[Maureen Callahan]

Sadly, sadly, that does it for our Friday edition of the Nerf. Now, even though we are going into a holiday weekend, I never forget about you troublemakers. So it is not the end. Okay, I'm going to see you this weekend. We are dropping another mini nerve on Saturday and one of the your favorites, because you've told me, is joining. Okay. And we are going to be talking about a ton of stuff we normally don't talk about because this guest can talk about anything. So be sure to look for us this weekend. We are on YouTube. Okay, the mini nerve drops on YouTube and we will see you all back here next week. It'll be a Wednesday drop, not a Tuesday drop because we all do need a little bit of a break. But we will be back on Wednesday with a brand new nerve and we cannot wait to see you back here then at the Nerve where you will never guess what we are about to say next.