← The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Explosive Allegations Against Prince, Harry & Meghan’s PR Stunt, and NYT's Glorification of Stealing
01:17:40
Maureen Callahan is joined by celebrity reporter and Royal insider Rob Shuter to break down the latest pop culture headlines, including abuse allegations against the late music icon Prince, a buried report that Prince was diagnosed with AIDS and how it was the real cause of his death. They also discuss Prince Harry and Meghan Markle trying to keep up their Royal appearance with an imminent plan to tour Africa, Harry's trip to Ukraine during King Charles' visit to the U.S., and Kylie Jenner facing accusations from her former housekeeper who says she was made to clean Timothée Chalamet’s mansion without proper compensation. Then Maureen takes apart a New York Times Podcast featuring New Yorker writer Jia Tolentino, who proudly discusses all the reasons she condones stealing from "the rich." Rob Shuter: https://robshuter.substack.com/ Lean: Discover how to achieve dramatic weight loss results without the needles, visit https://TAKELEAN.com and use code MAUREEN for 20% off plus free...
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- [00:00]
Commercial Announcer
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Listener or Caller
Why have I asked my H vac guy I found on angie.com to change my grandpa's trachea tube? I was so amazed at how he replaced our air ducts. I knew I could trust him to change Pop Pop's tube.
- [00:24]
Maureen Callahan
I think we should call a Dr.
- [00:26]
Rob Shooter
Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects@angie.com.
- [00:55]
Maureen Callahan
Welcome. Hello and welcome to the Nerve at Night. I am your host Maureen Callahan. Welcome. Before we get to setting the table for our show, I just want to say, honestly, I don't care if AI destroys humanity because they're giving us Pomeranians at spas with cucumber slices and making a mess in the kitchen and giving interviews while where they talk about how much they just love being alive and they go into space. So I don't care. I'll take the short term hit over the long term effects. We've got a stacked show today, a stacked, stacked impact, as we like to say. Celebrity reporter extraordinaire Rob Shooter will be joining us. And we've got some really explosive, explosive exclusive reports on a couple of major celebrities. Stuff that nobody's really talking about. And that's why the Nerve exists. That's why the Nerve exists. This is stuff that you're not going to hear anywhere else. And the main story, it's about Prince. And it was a heartbreak for me because I have been a huge, huge fan of Prince since I was really, really young. And like before Purple Rain, like the controversy record, like, I just, I, this one killed me. But we have to do it. We have to talk about it. On a lighter note, Timothy Shamalama Ding Dong is back making headlines. It's not good. Surprise, surprise. We're gonna get into that. Plus Harry and Meghan's latest attempts. Again, they've got another trip planned. You know, Charles and Camilla are in the United States this week to mark the 250th anniversary of our independence. And these two. We're going to get into it. We're going to get into it. Of course, that will be followed by troublemaker feedback. It's been coming in heavier than usual this weekend, which is so great. We're really excited to talk about that. And Then we've got a story, a cultural story for the ages. It gets to class, it gets to wealth, it gets to celebrity, it gets to socioeconomic status. It goes to what how out of touch the mainstream media is with the rest of us. And we say, stay that way, Stay that way. It just leave this lane open to the nerve. As I say, we are coming at it with like the force of a mack truck going 120 miles per hour in a 65. Okay, troublemakers, are you ready? Are you ready? Let's go. If you are looking to lose weight, but you're not interested in painful weekly injections with scary side effects, there is an alternative, a weight loss supplement called Lean. The doctors at Brickhouse Nutrition created Lean for frustrated dieters who have 10 or more pounds to lose. It is made with studied ingredients that have been shown to lower your blood sugar, to burn fat by converting it into energy, and to curb your appetite and cravings. One note, Lean is not for the casual dieter. With only a few pounds to lose, you can get started with 20% off and free rush shipping so that you can add Lean to your healthy diet and exercise plan. Visit takelean.com and enter Maureen for your discount. That's promo code maureenakelean.com joining us now, the one, the only Rob shooter of the Must subscribe substack Naughty But Nice. Rob's debut novel, which is a week old, it started with a whisper, is out now. Be sure to order a copy. So we can all do book club right before Memorial Day weekend. And we've also got a little contest going with Rob for signed copies. We'll tell you guys about that a little later in the show. Rob, welcome back to the Nerve.
- [05:05]
Rob Shooter
Hey, the Nerve. Maureen, thank you so much. You guys made me a bestseller before I met you.
- [05:12]
Maureen Callahan
Maureen, have we officially had the word you're now.
- [05:15]
Rob Shooter
Not yet. Not yet. But I think it's going to happen. We're doing really, really well. Every time I do your show, every time you're so kind to me, you actually see a bump. It's so amazing and you can be addicted to it. I've got to stop clicking that update button. And also, thank you for coming to my book party that turned into the Maureen book party. Everybody wanted to talk to you.
- [05:34]
Maureen Callahan
Not so. There was only one star of the show, and that was you, my friend. But we are so happy. And all credit to the troublemaker, who, by the way, are emailing me. They're loving it. They're entering the competition. Couldn't happen to a nicer Guy, we are so thrilled for you. Now, Rob, let's get into it.
- [05:54]
Rob Shooter
Get into it.
- [05:55]
Maureen Callahan
We've got work to do. The first story I want to talk to you about is one I read this over the weekend and it shocked me and it really, I thought to myself, oh, no, losing another hero. Another one is Prince. Prince. The 10th anniversary of his death was last week. I remember this vividly because the Empire State Building went purple in his honor the night he died. And that is a very significant thing. New York City does not play. They do it only for the truly special ones. An explosive report in the UK Mirror published April 24 claims that Prince beat at least one of his girlfriends repeatedly. Mirror exclusive the truth between me and music legend Prince Jill Jones, who's a former backup singer for Prince, breaks silence. Now she sat for a Netflix documentary by Oscar winning documentarian Ezra Edelman, who did the incredible. I think it's like 10 parts OJ made in America and if you haven't seen it, I can't recommend it highly enough. So this is a very serious, serious filmmaker. He was assigned to do a multi part docu series for Netflix about Prince. The estate shelved it, saying its release would cause, quote, generational harm to Prince's image. So the question is, what could be in that documentary? One of the things we're learning now. In 1984, Jill says she and a friend went to go see Prince at a hotel where an argument broke out. She was left jealous after he started kissing her friend. This happens all the time with stars on like level A to Z, you know, prompting her to slap Prince. And then she claims Prince responded by punching her over and over in the face. She needed to go to the hospital. His circle said do not. The Purple Rain tour was about to launch. It would have killed his career. This story is all too familiar. Rob, what do you make of this?
- [08:02]
Rob Shooter
A couple of things. First thing is heartbreaking. We but we don't get to choose who are the good or the bad people out there. And so people that we grew up listening to and really enjoying their work and not really knowing, back in the 80s, it was just so much more difficult to get to know the truth about a celebrity. I was working as a publicist in the early 2000s and it was before cell phones, it was before people had had cameras and social media accounts. And it was just so much easier to keep a secret. I can't imagine 20 years before in the 80s, it must have been so much easier. The mainstream outlets were the only outlets. And if you didn't play nice, you would be banned. You just wouldn't have access to the star. That's been true for celebrity royals. I think it's even true today. However, what has happened, thankfully, is that now there are new ways of receiving information. There's new gatekeepers, there's new people to tell stories. And so this story from the 80s, it's just so heartbreaking. But it's not that surprising that it took so long for this story to come out. We know we've been in the entertainment, the celebrity, the gossip business. I have for a really long time. Incidents like anniversaries bring up memories.
- [09:20]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, great point.
- [09:22]
Rob Shooter
Whenever there's a big moment, this is a time when people really think about that person, what happened, just on a personal level. I don't know if I've ever told this story, but in the early 2000s, I was representing a young singer and we were at the Roosevelt Hotel. They have a club at this fancy hotel in. In la. I think the club was called Teddy's, which makes sense.
- [09:46]
Maureen Callahan
Yes, yes.
- [09:47]
Rob Shooter
Really the chicest place. And I couldn't have got in, they would never have let me in. But I was there with her. I'm going to choose not to mention her name as it's her story, but I was there with her. Prince was in the club and Prince came over and was really kind of aggressive and we really. Yeah, we were so starstruck that it was Prince that he invited her back to his. His compound, wherever he was staying, his hotel. I don't know if he had a place in la. I think he did. And she didn't go. And I'm glad she didn't go. I wasn't invited. It was just her. But there was a creepiness to it and you choose to ignore it. And I'd forgotten about this story until you told me today that we were going to be talking about it. It's amazing what you can suppress. And nothing bad happened to me. And so I can't imagine having something awful happen to you and you want to suppress it, you don't want to talk about it, particularly when it's your hero that has done something, potentially, allegedly has done something. It's just heartbreaking. I got to say that, Maureen, back then, the codes of behavior was different. I'm not making excuses here. I'm not. I'm glad that the codes have changed. But I saw stuff in my early days in pr, around pop stars and musicians that thankfully just would not fly. Today, you just couldn't get away with it now slapping somebody to the point where punching. You're punching. That she was hospitalized, that she had to go.
- [11:16]
Maureen Callahan
No, I don't think she did. I think she was. I think she was made to recuperate. You know, the thing about this, Rob, you say, you know, thankfully, you can't get away with it today, but regretfully, I have to differ because for, for my money, Sean Combs got away with it.
- [11:29]
Rob Shooter
He did. He got away with it. He did. He did. He did. Now, you're right. You're right. When I say get away with it, I'm not talking about the legal aspect. I wish I was. I'm talking about people like you and me. And I'm not patting ourselves on. On the back here, but I haven't seen other people do this story. This story.
- [11:46]
Maureen Callahan
Me neither. I thought this story would blow up.
- [11:49]
Rob Shooter
Yeah, I did, too. And I was so grateful that you're talking about it today. And we're the people, the. The troublemakers. Not, not you and I, but the people that. That are out there listening. They're the people that can make sure this story does. It doesn't go away. But we're not going to see it on the evening news. We're not going to see it on the COVID of People magazine. This is a major, major, major story. And my experience with this, if in fact this story is true, it's not isolated. I remember the first time somebody told me that Ellen was me. And the first time. And then somebody else told me, and then somebody else the damn burst. It's a really good metaphor. We've got our thumb in the dam of celebrity, and once one person's brave enough to take their out the floodgates. So I will predict over the next few days, over the next three weeks, maybe even months, we're gonna hear more stories. Because to. To punch a woman in the face, to punch somebody that you apparently are friends with, that you love, they were romantically involved. To be able to do that, you don't just do it once. And so I will predict that the prince's state are on pins and needles at the moment, because it didn't just happen once.
- [13:00]
Maureen Callahan
It didn't. And you know, this documentary. Before we move on to our other princess blockbuster story that I also cannot believe the mainstream media has not picked up. That Netflix documentary by Ezra Edelman about Prince was the subject of a very lengthy New York Times Magazine profile about a year or so ago. And the piece was basically spending like 8,000 words saying, why won't the estate allow it and everybody's tiptoeing around why they wouldn't allow this esteemed biracial New Yorker, this sophisticated guy whose parents are power players, has all the right credentials. Right. They're very prominent in Democratic circles. Why won't the estate let this documentary see the light of day? What can't we see now? We have a little bit, a little bit of daylight into why our next Prince, weirdly, there's something going on in the ether. You're so right about anniversary stirring stuff up because in this Mirror piece, Jill Jones says it's the 10th anniversary and I always thought we were going to find our way back to each other. This is how sick, you know, it gets with domestic violence. And that his death, you know, obviously made that an impossibility. The National Enquirer. Prince is on the COVID of the National Enquirer. A reported piece that intimates that his overdose was perhaps a suicide. Prince has not. This, this. The mainstream media will not touch this. Prince had aids. Prince had aids. He had hiv. He became a Jehovah's Witness. At some point in his life. He refused all medical treatment. His HIV became aids. The Daily Mail, in a very lengthy report picking up on the National Enquirers exclusive, this was published April 27, 2016, in the mail. The headline, Prince, quote, was diagnosed with AIDS six months before he died and refused treatment because he believed God would heal him. According to the Inquirer, he was diagnosed with HIV back in the 1990s. And this, too, you know, there's so much still mystery surrounding Prince's death. But tell me, Rob, your thoughts as to why in this day and age this remains a secret, that it would be more acceptable to the estate, to the fans, to the bottom line, that Prince was a drug addict rather than either a bisexual or closeted gay man who died of aids.
- [15:41]
Rob Shooter
Yeah, it's about money. All this is about money. This estate now exists for one reason. They would tell you it's his legacy. It's a lie. Yes, it's to make money and to keep that legacy as pure as possible, as focused on the music as is the strategy, not to protect this dead man or his family. It's to protect the money. And so this is what this is all about. If they thought for one minute they could make more money revealing all Prince's secrets, they would do so. They don't believe that is the case. They've milked this catalog for pretty much everything it's worth. All the unreleased tracks at this point, which we didn't really want let's be honest. If you've got a track in the trunk, it's because it wasn't good enough to make the album. So why is it good enough now? I don't want the B sides. I don't want the five tracks that were cut from Purple Rain. I want the great songs. I've got the great songs. And so they always now try to make more and more and more money. And the way that they do that is by just really talking about the music. And the music's how they hold us hostage. You cannot produce a Prince documentary, movie, TV special without the music. Why would anybody. Why would anybody watch that? Why would anybody listen to that? You can't get the rights to the music unless you agree to what message you are telling. So you and I could make an amazing Prince documentary and tell the truth, but we couldn't include the music. And without the Prince songs, that documentary's chance of making any money, even if it was explosive, is very, very narrow. Let me just quickly add to. To the National Enquirer. The last person that the Inquirer reported was HIV positive was Charlie Sheen. And they got that right.
- [17:32]
Maureen Callahan
And that rumor had been swirling around. It was. It was a real open secret.
- [17:36]
Rob Shooter
And they were brave enough, and that's the only outlet that was brave, brave enough to do it. They did that on the COVID And then the next day he ran to the Today show to confirm their reporting, to try and undercut it. But for me, when the Inquirer says it, the legal team they have down there, I go to them all the time. When I was with Jessica Simpson, they broke a story that she was dating John Mayer. She was Jessica. And I couldn't figure out how they got it. They got the story. My experience with celebrities when I worked with them is if I wanted to know what was going on, I didn't check People magazine and I certainly didn't check Glamour or Vogue. The Inquirer.
- [18:17]
Maureen Callahan
The Inquirer. And, you know, to one other point before we move on from Prince, the idea, if this is just. This is just one secret in the vault. I wonder, I truly wonder, do you remember he and his backup singer, Maite, or dancer, if I'm saying her name right, they married and they had a child, a baby. That baby died not long after its birth. Within days, I believe, was at home with them in Paisley Park. And I wonder if one of these secrets is that Prince, because he was such a fervent Jehovah's Witness, did not allow that baby the medical treatment he would have needed. Because how often do you hear Rob of a wealthy celebrity's infant dying?
- [18:58]
Rob Shooter
No, you don't. You don't. We've seen this around Scientology. We've seen this.
- [19:02]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah.
- [19:03]
Rob Shooter
Around these really bizarre. Some people would. Would say cults. Celebrity is just so ugly and so toxic. And very few people ever get the celebrity that Prince has. We're talking Michael Jackson, Madonna, the Beatles. There's not more than a handful. And so if celebrity can crush reality stars, can you imagine real fame does? They live in a bubble. They become victims of their own hype. They start to think of themselves as immortal. And so Prince had a really, really messed up life. A life that must have had many, many secrets.
- [19:42]
Maureen Callahan
Yes.
- [19:42]
Rob Shooter
Carefully controlled by agents and managers and publicists. And now that business has gone too. The music business is in disarray. When Prince was in the music business, hundreds of millions of dollars were being made by Prince, for Prince, for the people around Prince. Now the record business is gone. And so now maybe finally people will come forward and tell the truth. The truth always gets out, Maureen. It might take a decade, it might even take longer, but the truth always does get out. And I fear that we're just scratching the surface with Prince.
- [20:16]
Maureen Callahan
I think we are too. And I think it's very important that the truth comes out because we're healthier culture for knowing exactly the cost, not just the cost of fame. And right here, I have to say, I don't feel sorry for Prince at all. It sounds as though if he was responsible through negligence or his religious fervor for his own child's death. I mean, we have to have a complete relitigation of who this guy was and what he means. You know, in that year, 1984, those of us who were young and lived through it in American pop culture, there was nothing like it. It was Madonnas Like a Virgin, it Princess Purple Rain. It was Springsteen's Born in the USA and it was Michael Jackson's Thriller. Yeah, I mean, it was incredible. And that it brings us to. It brings us to our next story. Michael Jackson. This film has shattered box office records. It is the highest grossing musical biopic of all time. It smashes 2015 straight out of Compton, which grossed 60 million in its opening weekend. Domestically, this thing has grossed almost 100 million domestically, which means we are getting part two. Rob and everybody involved in this whole whitewash is like, well, you know, yeah, obviously part two will be a lot more difficult. Tell me, tell me how they're going to try to frame doing a part Two, minus multiple accusations of, of sexually abusing minor boys. Tell me.
- [21:42]
Rob Shooter
It's very difficult, but as we said a minute ago, we always get to the truth on the show. It's about the money. You don't make a movie that makes almost $100 million and that movie then doesn't end. They're always going to be looking for sequels. They're always going to look at ways to do it. Now, I did speak to some of my Michael sources this morning, and they said this number actually shocked them. They didn't think it would be this big. The press was awful. The reviews have been horrific. He comes with a lot of baggage. The fact that this many people turned up because they love the music and they want to dance.
- [22:15]
Maureen Callahan
They.
- [22:15]
Rob Shooter
That's what this movie is. It is not the truth. So if they didn't tell the truth in part one, don't expect them to suddenly tell the truth in part two. And somebody, a filmmaker, a producer said to me today, and it stopped me in my, my tracks, he said, the public doesn't want the truth. It's not a documentary, it's a feature film. It doesn't want the truth. I was the executive editor of OK magazine for several years, and what I learned very quickly is that the news didn't sell. I had to confirm what you believe. I could never do a mean story on Jennifer Aniston because the public loved her. I could never do a nice story on Paris Hilton. In the world of celebrity, you have to confirm what people believe. That's why you very rarely out somebody on a cover. It's not because of our high moral standing. It doesn't sell. If you don't come out, the fans won't believe me telling them that you are gay. And so I, my, my journalist instinct here, my reporter instinct here is I can't wait for part two and the truth to come out. There will be a part two, but it will be as whitewashed as part one. It will be a week of his life. It will be a week of the grammar.
- [23:32]
Maureen Callahan
You know what it'll be, Rob? I can tell you right now, it'll be how Michael survived that trial and won. That's what it's, that's what it's going to be. It's going to be this. And to your point, you know, I don't think these moviegoers, especially the ones who are flocking to Michael, are the kinds who, like, read critics and what they think. And by the way, I've been following the New York Times coverage which has Been like, hey, it's glowing. It's a great film. You know, it's all about influencers and social media and outlets like Entertainment Tonight in the Today show where they interview the stars of the movie. And it's all. It's all very chummy. How do you pull this off? Well, they're actors. That's how they pulled it off. I don't give a shit about that. Let's talk real talk.
- [24:14]
Rob Shooter
I have a story, a little tag on it, if you allow me, that this week, the Devilweb Prada is opening on Thursday. The critics haven't seen it. That's how bad it is. All they've done is invite influencers, and it's a really brilliant strategy. I was having my book party on Monday. You were there. But across town, how dare they? The Devil Wears Prada. The Cheeky Devils were having their premiere. It's okay. There's enough room for both of us. They didn't invite press. They invited influencers. And they have flooded our social media with just gorgeous pictures with pictures of people in gorgeous gowns. And so when the critics actually are allowed to write about this, the embargo is listed lifted on Wednesday. It's too late. We've already bought our tickets. So now these movie companies have got really smart. They can sell the illusion, and that's what people are listening to. It's a good and a bad thing. I'm thrilled that we've been able to break through with our shows and without the support of the Today show and people like that. But the downside of that too is that we can be easily manipulated by paid influencers. And there's so much noise out there. There's gonna be interesting to see. I think the Prada reviews are gonna be horrific, but so were the Jackson reviews. And look at it. The biggest movie, the biggest biopic movie of all time that they will do a sequel. It will all be lies. And I don't.
- [25:31]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah, yeah. And I do think. I do think to your point about the product thing, I also think that audience isn't ne the kind that reads critics. They're not reviews. They're not like cinemasts, you know, they want to go and have a good time and, like, buy the popcorn bucket that, like, has the devil horns or whatever. And by the way, that's the province of the nerve. Just saying. Okay, let's move on to Megan and Harry on the COVID of Us Weekly this week. What's next? I can only guess. Star Magazine, Harry and Meghan. Most explosive fight.
- [26:04]
Rob Shooter
That's a better cover. That's the COVID you want to read.
- [26:07]
Maureen Callahan
That is the better cover. Tabloid editor and you, you know, us has gone really soft. Really, really soft. It's not working for them. Now Harry and Meghan are plotting a royal style Africa tour without the palace. And again, this is like, you know, Harry just dropped in unannounced in Ukraine last week, calling for an end to this war and calling for Vladimir Putin to put down his weapons. Like, who's listening to this mental midget? This fucking emotional wreck.
- [26:46]
Rob Shooter
Good question. I think there's a question in there. I will jump in.
- [26:49]
Maureen Callahan
Please do.
- [26:50]
Rob Shooter
It is incredible. I was hitting the phones particularly because the King is in America. And so I was hitting the phones and I was like, how does the palace feel about all this? The timing is so, so rough. The Ukraine trip, did he have to do that on the eve of his father coming here to America? And they said yes, he did. And what they've learned in Australia, like this or not, I don't like it. But there's truth to this. They don't need the royal family to pretend to be royals. Harry and Meghan can go to any hospital and they will be treated very, very well. They can go to any charity and most of them will open them with open arms, particularly internationally. Maybe not in Britain or maybe not here, but if these two turn up in Africa, they can pretend to be royals for three days and then make a ton of money doing conferences. And that's the business model they're gonna use. The palace is upset about it. This is what the Queen specifically did not want. She didn't want part time royals half in, half out. What the Queen did not realize and neither did Harry and Meghan in the moment, they don't need the Queen's approval to do this. He's Harry and he will always be Princess Diana's son. And as much as that bites me, the only way that this will stop is when people stop buying tickets and stop showing up. But they do not need the authority of the Crown to do this. Princess Diana was kicked out of that family. She lost her royal title. She went on to be the people's princess. That's what Harry's trying to be. I know there's a lot of differences between Diana and Harry. I don't think he's going to pull it off in the way way that she did. But they are planning now to roll out this Australian model that the Queen specifically did not want, which is the part time royals. And they're going to come for Three or four days, do some charity work and then sell us a pot of jam.
- [28:36]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, you know, Rob, I think the, the difference is, first of all, yes, Diana, when she divorced, she lost her hrh. Diana, for all of her difficulty with the British royal family, was a monarchist and she was deeply invested in the future of the monarchy because her son was going to ascend to the throne.
- [28:55]
Rob Shooter
That's it.
- [28:55]
Maureen Callahan
She never disrespected the Queen in this way. And I think there's a difference between Harry before Meghan and Harry after. Now that the Queen is no longer with us, can they do whatever they want? Clearly, because Charles is totally ineffectual. I think it's going to be completely different playing field when William ascends. The Harry before Meghan would have abided by the late Queen's wishes. The Harry of post Meghan, with Meghan has adopted her I don't give a fuck attitude. And it's distinctly non royal.
- [29:28]
Rob Shooter
That's you, Maureen. You've hit. That's it. That's the difference. Diana, through everything she went through in that family, she remained a monarchist. And it was because her son was going to be the king and she didn't want to burn it down. Harry wants to burn down this family. He hates this family. He says stuff, he provokes them. And it sort of got to the point where it feels cruel to watch now, even people that might have supported Harry and Meghan in the beginning. And let me tell you, that royal family has a lot of problems and a lot of history. History that is not pretty. However, only Harry and Meghan could make us root for these rich old fools sitting on a throne. He's made me more of a royalist. It's just so cruel what they've done. And I don't get when it's going to stop. And. But, but I do think the more they do it, the less effective it will be. Australia was the. Was the highlight. If they do this five or six times, it's. It's going to be like American Idol. By the time I get to the sixth or seventh, I don't care as much. So I think it's. Diminishing returns is probably the right, right expression, or at least maybe I hope it is. But they're not stopping. They are not stopping.
- [30:34]
Maureen Callahan
Before we move on to our next story, I would just like to put out a public plea because we have been trying to find the local heroine in Australia who was sunbathing and refused to move for that ridiculous army of security guards walking Meghan And Harry along a beach. Ma', am, please email us at.
- [30:52]
Commercial Announcer
The nerve.
- [30:53]
Maureen Callahan
We're dying to have you on. Okay, now another, another. Okay, two quick stories. One more in the pop world and then we're going to move over to Timothy Shyamalan. Ding Dong, you have an exclusive. Whispers grow of an Usher and Diddy reunion.
- [31:12]
Rob Shooter
I know.
- [31:13]
Maureen Callahan
After, after Sean Combs completes his prison sentence or is cut loose early. Rob, who would back this? Would it, would a Live Nation back this? Would it be a Roc Nation, Jay Z thing? He can't go near this. Who would bankroll a tour like this?
- [31:31]
Rob Shooter
It is very complicated and it is Good question. AEG and Live Nation are a monopoly of concert promoters. There's only two here in the States. There's other smaller ones, but you've got to get one of those. Live nations are selling tickets to Kanye west in la. Like really dive nation. Other ones. And so they follow the money. If Diddy and Usher can sell out the Garden and make people a lot of money, they will do it. They will do it. The Garden is for rent. If you've got enough money to rent the Garden, you can get it. Carnegie Halls for rent. If you've got $80,000, you can rent Carnegie Hall. I'm sure there are some, hopefully there are some guidelines and some restrictions, but I bet they're not that strict. And they would argue Diddy has. I can hear them now. He's paid his time, he's done his service, now he's out. Let us move on. Here's a check for $80,000. And they're going to do it. Usher is a really complicated character because he owes a lot of his career to Diddy in the same way that Justin Bieber owes his career to Usher. And so Diddy mentored Usher. We can argue in some horrific ways, but Usher really, really still looks up to Diddy. It's amazing, isn't it? Because it's hard to break those chains, even when you know they are toxic. I'm giving Usher the benefit of the doubt here, but he should know better. But I, I, I'm told from family members. They are think they are really optimistic. They don't think Diddy's going to be in jail for much longer. They think he's going to come out. And what somebody told me who works closely with Diddy, and it was chilling. And there's truth to this. Diddy now has what he never had before, which is street credibility. The black community, the rat community, always thought Diddy was a pussy. They thought he was A middle class
- [33:22]
Maureen Callahan
kid riding on the back of Biggie Smalls. The far more talented and the guy with real street cred, like a really hardcore drug dealer.
- [33:30]
Rob Shooter
That's, that's what, yeah, they, this, this has given Diddy. He has now been to jail, he's been to prison. He's one of us. He beat the system. And I think that is a very powerful message that Didi will manipulate and make a lot of money from. And shame on Usher for jumping potentially on these coattails. But anybody that knows Didi, I worked with him 20 years ago, he doesn't go away. He's not going to come out of jail and say, you know, I've got a lot of money, I'm just gonna retire, you're done with me. No, that isn't how he thinks he wants to come back. He wants to be bigger than ever. He'll have an album about being in jail. I wouldn't be surprised if he's not writing it now. You know, his kids, his kids have a really, really interesting story here because while he's in jail, they're living the high life. They've all moved into his multimillion dollar mansion and they've got nobody telling them, telling them what to do. I had this story that Britney Spears, his kids have moved into her mansion. They love that Britney's in rehab because it gets them the key to the castle with literally no nobody in charge. And so Diddy, when he gets out, hopefully it's later than sooner, but, but I don't totally believe that he will have music, he will have concerts, he will make movies. He's not going away.
- [34:47]
Maureen Callahan
And you know what? I also bet, Rob, that there is no more ardent student of how the Michael Jackson movie was sold and packaged to the American people and the blockbuster success it's become. Then Sean Combs, he's going to be looking at this playbook for his own redemption tour. And when he comes back to the garden, it's, it's going to be packaged as like a night of redemption and rebirth. Trust me. Our last story, Timote Shamalama Ding Dong, who I've been reading, has been advised to just like go away for a while. Go away. We will be seeing Timote on our very our on, on our incipient live stream. He will be there in spirit and effigy. The US sun is reporting that Kylie Jenner's housekeeper, so his girlfriend Kylie Jenner's housekeeper is suing Kylie and her company because she says she was forced to clean Timothy's mansion. Without being properly paid. Okay. This was published on April 21. Authors Jessica Fellow Finn, the US son obtained these legal documents. The former housekeeper is named Angelica Vasquez. She also says she was belittled over her race, religion and immigration status. Interesting. By fellow domestic staffers. But the real story here is that Kylie apparently paid or her company apparently paid for this employee's gas. And that's about it. And she was told to go over and clean Timothy's mansion for nothing.
- [36:22]
Rob Shooter
Oh, Rob, they're so gross. First of all, Jessica Finn, who was at the party on Monday, a friend of mine, a great reporter, has been in this business forever. One of the best. She's at the sun now. I believe every word that she ever prints. And so this story, it's wild, isn't it? You know, they all brag and they show off at how rich they are. If I see one more picture of her flaunting her wealth and then not paying the staff, it just feels so, so wrong. And it's such a bad look. They have, have the money, they can pay it. They just, I'm not asking them to overpay but just be decent people here they're not. They really want so much for so, so little. And you know, they wouldn't work for nothing. The Kardashians are really expensive when you want to give, pay them to, for, for an hour of work. And so it makes me angry. And it also too really confirms that Timothy's one of them because he could say no if I was like in round bad company. And I am a lot because of what I do for a living. I know some real stinkers, but I'm not a stinker when I'm with them. I let them be who they are. I probably should should interject more, but I don't. I let you be who you are, but that doesn't make me want to be you. And Timothy could have said no to this if, if you said to me, we're going to send someone to, to clean your apartment, Rob, I'd love it. But then if you're like, but we're really going to get them, we're going to do it for free. We're going to. I'd say no. I don't want that. Timothy paints himself as this really socially liberal, kind hearted humanitarian that grew up here in New York and just love and it's all a lie. He's dating a Kardashian and this is who he is. And the fact that he, he allowed, he was okay with somebody coming to Clean his house, scrub his toilet, who didn't get paid. Shame on you. And if he's listening, send them a check, Timothy. Send them the money and overpay.
- [38:06]
Maureen Callahan
First of all, any. First of all, why doesn't he have his own household staff, number one? Number two, if he's going to accept someone cleaning his house, you know, make sure that they get paid. Being a housekeeper is among the most back breaking work you can do. Talk about an honest way to make a living. And these. She's a billionaire. Are you kidding me? She's about to show up at the Met Gal. I hope those two show up. Oh my God. I hope those two show up. And you know the other thing, Rob, you're so right about like the company you keep and what it says about you. There are times when professionally I have to be at a dinner at a restaurant, let's say, and someone at my table will be awful to the waitstaff and I hate to report that this has happened more than once. And I. All I ever try to do is make contact with eye contact with whoever the waiter or waitress is to just say like, I do not like.
- [39:02]
Gia Tolentino
Yes.
- [39:02]
Maureen Callahan
I don't co sign this. This is awful. I over tip. I want to crawl under the table. I am so mortified. And it's, it's doubly mortifying because it's a person who thinks they're in a position of power and that's someone who's there to serve them and they can treat them however they want. And that's exactly what this story is. It's a class story.
- [39:22]
Rob Shooter
It's a class story. The only out option that I give us here is that, you know, in the line of work that we do, we meet some very difficult people. I don't date them. He's not in, he's not in business with Kylie Jenner. He's in bed with her. They are lovers. Of all the people in the world to date, you picked her and she picked you. That's really telling. That is so telling. Timothy fooled us. Maybe not you, Maureen, but a lot of people, including me for a really long time. And then it's like the story we began with the truth comes out slow, slowly.
- [40:00]
Maureen Callahan
Yes, he's. No, he's no high level artist, okay? He's a wannabe rapper who got in with the Kardashians and thought his top level shit and his entitlement was getting an Oscar this year. And the nerve was here to say, we don't think so, sir. Not on our watch. Rob. We love you. We love you. Congrats again. It started with a whisper shout out too.
- [40:24]
Rob Shooter
So. So because of you I got booked on the Megyn Kelly show. It's because of you she saw me on your show. She's so great. And I just watched something on TikTok that she posted about how smart you are and how you do high and low. Did you see this? It was a beautiful I did. It was beautiful and I agree with every word she said. You've been great and thank you again for all the book help. I appreciate it.
- [40:45]
Maureen Callahan
Well, thank you for telling me that. And thank you for all of your kind words. We are rooting you on and we cannot wait until you hit the bestseller list officially. We'll see you soon, Rob.
- [40:58]
Rob Shooter
Take care my friends.
- [41:02]
Maureen Callahan
That's it. Coming up. Troublemaker Feedback we are back in a minute. Do you know that the condition of your hair, skin, nails, mental clarity and energy all starts with gut health? Adding quality colostrum to your daily routine can help with all of this. Today's sponsor, Cowboy Colostrum offers the highest quality bovine colostrum available. It's 100% American made from 100% American grass fed cows. Unlike other Colostrum brands, Cowboy Colostrum is true first day whole colostrum rich in bioactives. They also use ethical practices ensuring that they only collect the surplus colostrum after baby calves have had their fill made with natural ingredients and no artificial flavors. Just add a scoop of their chocolate, Madagascar vanilla, matcha or strawberry into your morning smoothie and get healthy from the inside out. For a limited time, our listeners get up to 25% off their entire order. Just head to cowboycolostrum.com Maureen and use code Maureen at checkout. That's 25% off when you use code maureen@cowboycolostrum.com Maureen.
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- [43:14]
Maureen Callahan
We are back and it is time for the best part of Eddie Nerve. Your feedback. We got a ton on our piece on Euphoria and Sam Levinson, who henceforth shall be known as the pornographer he is and what he's doing to Sydney Sweeney over and other young actresses. One troublemaker said to me something so smart and I was so. I was almost a little angry with myself for missing it. One of you guys said in an email, do you notice, Maureen, that the only female cast member that Sam Levinson won't degrade, by which I mean turn into an onlyfans sad case or an idiot who's been brain damaged by drugs or a drug mule like Zendaya, is Maude Apatow, daughter of Judd Apatow. And once you see it, you can't unsee it. We also got a lot of response to our mini this weekend, our Arrested Development mini. If you haven't watched it, I would encourage you to go over to YouTube and watch it. We bundle Drew Barrymore, Lena Dee and Monica Lewinsky all together because they've all been cross pollinating and all of them are very sick and they're very stuck. Just my opinion. I don't think they're value adds to the culture. In fact, I think they're negatives. I think they're negatives. Here we go. Hi, Maureen. I am so glad you highlighted the absolute filth that Sam Levinson has injected into the culture. When euphoria premiered in 2019, again, it's, it's been like HBO should have just let this die. They really should have just let it die. I was the only one of my friends who refused to watch it. And listen, that I. That takes guts. You know, I'm sure you, I'm sure you were under a lot of peer pressure to just get with the program, as it were. Troublemaker Grace goes on to say, my youngest sister was 16 at the time, the same age the girls in the show were supposed to be. And I could not stomach the depraved scenarios. Zendaya, Sydney Sweeney and the rest of the female cast again save Mod Apatow were supposed to be finding themselves in as sophomores in high school. Yes, they are still children. I knew the show was pure trash and Levinson was a pervert. Again, just our opinion back then. And I am relieved that people seem to be coming to that conclusion now. Dear Maureen, let's see. Okay, I hate to start your Tuesday on a syntactical crisis. Please do. That's something I can roll around in all day long. But can we please talk about words used and abused by the culture? Words that are victims, really, and did nothing but merely exist in the English language. But thanks to vapid and poorly read celebrities are now left to wander aimlessly down the corridors of cliche. I feel like we try to do this just as they come at us, but I love this is again, this is Lisa, our troublemaker from Paris. I love the idea of having this as a dedicated thing on the show. Lisa says you have mentioned your rightful disdain for reclaiming, adulting. This one should actually go straight to the woodshed. Nay, troublemaker Lisa. I would say woodchipper. Lived experience. Stump grinder. Burn pile. Are you alive? You're having an experience. I'll also add human experience to this one. Unless animals start hosting TV shows. Hey, don't tell Teddy. Don't give that guy any ideas. He's already got something planned for the Met Gala that, like, I've been backed into a corner Met Gala livestream, you know, he's, he's really, really believing his own hype. I'll also throw in my truth. Of course, it's a given. As well as narrative and storytelling, which has been stolen from us writers and overused. For this, I blame Taylor Swift. I, I agree. There's also my journey. Journey. Everything's a journey. I'm telling you, if you are not geographically moving yourself from point A to point B, you are not on a journey. I also know a lot of people like this one, but I'm not a fan of Loki. I, I, I kind of agree with you there. Lisa, who signs off as ever as author bon vivant dork in Paris, reminding us of our beloved Armando, we haven't heard from you in a little bit. Armando, what's up? What are you doing? Shoot us an email. Let us know what you're up to. Maureen, Sam Levinson is a huge loser. Indeed he is. But Sydney Sweeney is not far behind him. You know, many of you wrote in with this question, and I actually, I don't have a good answer for it. And the answer is, why has she, along with the other actresses, given up on all dignity in the name of fame? Why do they fall for it? It's very disturbing. You know, I finally last week got a chance to watch the Housemaid, and I have some thoughts on it. They're not, I didn't love it, and I have some problems with it. I really do. But among them is just like anybody who's casting Sydney Sweeney. Now they're just writing in sex scenes where she can be topless or like scenes where she's got to just like wear like, you know, and it's really depressing. It reminds me of like jiggle culture in the 70s. And speaking of like the. Our earlier troublemaker who was like, I was the only one in my friend group who would not watch Euphoria when I was a kid, my mother would not allow me to watch Charlie's Angels. She did not believe that show was about female empowerment. She thought it was just like jiggle porn. And she was right. She was right. It didn't help me a lot on the playground, but later in life it did help me. Now this troublemaker, Lisa in West Virginia says, I am in my 50s and as a young girl I grew up with a dad addicted to porn. I know of at least one person who also grew up that way, a woman. And it does real lasting damage. Like lasting, calculable damage. This troublemaker writes, he was sophisticated, loved art, music and fashion. He worked hard for our family. The porn addiction started with acceptable Playboy Penthouse material, but turned darker through the years with the dawn of cable and Internet. It destroyed our family. And I am convinced it's a dark spiritual force. And, you know, none other than Chris Rock on, I think it's his tambourine stand up special talks quite candidly about his addiction to porn being a very heavy contributing factor in the breakup of his. Of his marriage to the mother of his two girls. This is a guy who used to say one of his funniest punchlines was that as a father of two girls, his only job, only job, and I'm quoting, was keeping his daughters off the pole. And he wound up addicted to porn. And it didn't end well for Chris, who I otherwise really like. I otherwise really like Chris Rock. Dear Maureen, happy belated one year anniversary to you and the amazing team at the Nerve. Thank you. Now this email from troublemaker D. I will keep your name anonymous. This hit you. I mentioned briefly Amanda Knox in the Mini Nerve un Arrested Development when I was talking about Monica Lewinsky and how you would think surviving a trauma such as that, where something is kind of comes upon you and the media, like global media attention comes upon you, as a very young woman would do a number on you and that you, you having been through that, would, would retreat and, and go on and live your life. But you know, like Monica, Amanda loves being famous. It really doesn't matter the delivery system. She really loves it. So Monica, 30 years later, is still banging on about the Clint Clinton Lewinsky scandal and what she went through. Frankly, I'm bored of it. And I don't find that Monica's conversations or her insights really add anything to our culture. I do not. Same with Amanda Knox. And this troublemaker agrees. And this is a very smart, sensitive take, which I think too many of us in America don't think about enough because Meredith Kercher, the murder victim, you know, Amanda was acquitted. She was found not guilty even though she spent time in prison. But Meredith was, was, was a British girl. Her family lives in Britain and so we don't get their side of the story or representatives saying what they really think about Amanda, who's now doing stand up comedy. Okay, I can think of no one I'd rather see try to make me laugh. This troublemaker d writes. Meredith's family has maintained a dignified silence about their daughter and sister's death, but through their representatives have expressed distress and frustration at Amanda Knox's continued initiatives to generate fame and money on the back of this tragedy. And never forget, Amanda Knox told Italian police that they should be looking at the black bartender at the at the place they frequented who didn't do it. Amanda, this troublemaker writes, also made several attempts to contact Meredith's family against their wishes. I understand that Amanda may want to tell her story, but the constant stream of books, podcasts and public appearances are the sign of somebody who enjoys the spotlight a bit too much and is basking in her notoriety. Just your opinion, not just yours friend. Mine as well. Hi Maureen, I have written a couple of times before but no response. So I am not sure if these messages make it to you. We do have the champagne problem of getting many, many emails from troublemakers and feedback and DMS and comments and stuff. Sometimes we just the volume of it. It's hard to get to them all. But we value every single one. And I do make it my it is top of my priority list whenever I've got extra time when I'm not just writing the show with Marlena and the other producers here to go in to the emails. So please troublemaker, know your feedback is valued. Now this troublemaker says she has a downside of of finding herself in the nerve universe. Is that before the nerve she says, I was in a state of ignorance is bliss when it comes to a lot of these celebrities and their misdeeds. And now with the nerve you can't unsee it. I am curious as to what you think are the best ways for People like me to help counteract the nonsense that legacy media props up. Hey, you know, I would just say spread the word about the nerve. Shoot a couple of videos or one that, like, really strikes you to a friend. Or, you know, if you've got a friend who, like, really loves, like, Ashton Kutcher, send them our piece on Ashton Kutcher. You know, it's. It's exciting conversation. At the very least, it's exciting conversation. Now, this troublemaker has many suggestions, but among this, among them, this one I really love. And in part because troublemaker l, you are not alone. Why don't you talk about Taylor Swift more? We did do a mini. Last summer, we did a mini in which we read her father Scott Swift's, like, email for the ages about how hard it was trying to make his daughter famous. I mean, they were grinding it out at that Christmas tree farm, and Scott was grinding it out with his financial clients, you know, who would come in to see how their 401k was doing and what kind of investments they should be making. And he would be like, yeah, I'll tell you, if you take my daughter's CD and spread the word to, like, 10 people. You know what I mean? Anyway, this troublemaker says the Taylor is, by all accounts, a terrible person. This troublemaker says, I know a few people in the business, fakest of the fake, and she is, of course, the most influential. And again, Taylor Swift's bff, who in text messages released in discovery during this lawsuit. That's coming up. Got your popcorn and your favorite cocktail ready or your favorite mocktail. I should hope so. You know, it was like, we're going to destroy this joker, summon substance. I'm not saying Taylor was active in it. I'm not. But, you know, somebody else wrote. Another troublemaker wrote something. And I thought this was really interesting that, you know, as we've been discussing these titans of pop music and pop culture, like in 1984, Madonna, Prince, Michael Jackson, you know, they did generate controversy. They were doing it on purpose. And they would come under a lot of criticism. You know, Tipper Gore, who went on to become the second lady of the United States, she founded the. The Outraged Parents Music Resource center, the pmrc. And it was all about trying to litigate and censor music. You know, because, like, Prince was the devil, Metallica was the devil. You know, they were doing the devil's work, which was. It was very exciting to those of us in suburbia. Like, you couldn't make me buy a record faster than telling me that. But you know, they were, they came in for a lot of cultural criticism, which is, which makes everything much more interesting. And both of you guys have landed on something that nobody really has located before, which is that Taylor Swift has not and that the mainstream media, it seems, is afraid, afraid to criticize her in any way as our legions of celebrities who just want to be known as Taylor's friends. And you know what? I love this. I love this idea. And I think as the Blake Justin trial gets underway, we'll, we'll have some room to talk about it. Email me anybody who's got stories about Taylor, issues with Taylor, problems with Taylor. Email me, please. Let me know. Troublemaker, Lisa, frequent writer. Oh, my God. Between friends. This was, I believe, originally an HBO movie with Elizabeth Taylor and Carol Burnett. I remember this. I remember this movie because nobody could believe the pairing of Carol Burnett, who was America's premier female comic, and Elizabeth Taylor. And it was actually so good. And, you know, this troublemaker says, in all of my 62 young years, I've never seen it until today. Unlikely pair, but so raw and so good. I agree. Between friends, it's going on the rec list. And our final email from a mo bro representing Real Deal. We have a photo that he sent to prove his virility. Greetings, Maureen. I hope this message finds you, Marlena, and Teddy in good health. It does indeed. Trouble as well is coming along. This guy is so strong. I mean, it is a wrestling session to get him in a harness, which he needs because he's so little that, like, you know, like, you can't put a collar on them. It'll choke their little tracheas. Four years, Tom writes. I complained about our language and culture both being degraded in real time right before our eyes. We all know Fred Astaire and JLO are not equal. Twerking isn't dancing and nudes isn't dating. Please keep fighting. The evil League of Eagle fan in Florida, Tom, who attaches a shirtless photo of himself lifting weights and says, psych. Yes, masculine men do watch your show. We love you. We love you. Keep your feedback coming. Email me at maureenevilmaycaremedia.com or DM me on Instagram at Maureen Callahan, writer, or at the Nerve show. If you are looking to enter our contest to win one of five signed copies of Rob Shooter's novel, it's started with a whisper. Email Emily with your favorite scandal of all time, your fa. It could be Liz and Liz and Dick. It could be Anthony and Cleopatra. Use your imaginations. Best celebrity scandal of all time. Write to emily lmaycare media.com and we will announce the winners on a forthcoming nerve very soon. Remember to subscribe to our weekly email the Nerve Substack. Go over to thenerveshow.com you're going to see a prompt. Would you like to get the nerves unhinged? Weekly email every Friday afternoon a few hours after the final full nerve of the week. Of course you would. Who wouldn't? I told you, it's another thing Teddy's been commandeering behind my back. Go over to thenerveshow.com put your email in. There you go. If you want to subscribe, even better. It's five bucks a month and it really does help the show to grow. Coming up, some Nepo cultural offenders go into the woodshed. We will see you in a minute. A lot of skin companies out there are purporting wholesome natural products. The trouble is, most of the big names out there are owned by mega corporations and private equity firms that prioritize profit over quality. Fortunately, one company is doing things differently and that's Van Man. They started the tallow trend a few years back with their grass fed tallow moisturizers and they have been crushing it ever since. Tallow makes for a great moisturizer because the fatty acids are nearly identical to the oils in our own skin so our bodies actually recognize it. One use and you will feel the difference. Plus there are no chemicals, no filler and a little goes a long way. I use their lip balm and I love it. And I'm very, very picky about lip balm. Tallow balm isn't just a moisturizer. It can replace your night cream. I've used this too and I love it. Wrinkle cream, even Neosporin and diaper balm. It's powerful enough to heal the skin, yet safe enough to spread on your toast. And that's how you know Van man is giving you real ingredients. If you are ready to ditch corporate chemicals, go to Vanman Shop Maureen and use code Maureen for 15% off your first order. That is Maureen for 15% off your 1st order. Van man real ingredients, no exceptions.
- [62:36]
Gia Tolentino
My uncontrollable movements called TD tardive dyskinesia felt embarrassing. I felt like disconnecting.
- [62:43]
Maureen Callahan
I asked my doctor about treating my
- [62:45]
Gia Tolentino
TD and learned about in valbenazine capsules,
- [62:48]
Maureen Callahan
a prescription medicine clinically proven for reducing TD in adults.
- [62:52]
Gia Tolentino
That's always one capsule once daily and number one prescribed.
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Maureen Callahan
People taking Ingrezza can stay on most mental health meds.
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Nadia Spiegelman
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Maureen Callahan
Take control by asking your doctor about Ingrezza.
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Nadia Spiegelman
Learn more@ingrezza.com that's I N G R E Z Z A
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Rob Shooter
Another pina colada?
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Maureen Callahan
Fantastic.
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- [64:08]
Maureen Callahan
We are back. I have been dying to talk to you guys about this particular story, which, I mean, the news cycle is enough to give you whiplash. This thing has landed, though. This thing has, has, has sort of escaped the confines of like the New York Times and New York Media and it's generating real outrage. And I love it because. Good. Last week the New York Times did a podcast video as well. So we've got it all here. And it was basically under the heading of, you know, the rich don't play by the rules, so why should I? And guess who's doing this round table? A bunch of rich elitist. A New Yorker writer named Gia Tolentino. This woman is a media pet, okay? She published a book of essays a few years ago called Trick Mirror. This is how you know someone's a media pet. The amount of media coverage they get is directly inverse to the way anything they produce lands in the culture. Nobody cared about her book of essays, but she was all over the New Yorker and Elle magazine and the Wall Street Journal and in all the right, you know, social media. You know what I mean? Anyway, so Gia Tolentino is among these people. Another Hassan piker. If you don't know him, he's sort of this like incendiary progressive guy and he's Also a Nepo. His uncle runs a media outlet, owns a media outlet of his own. And then the third person, the third offender in this podcast is New York Times opinion writer Nadia Spiegelman. You've probably never heard of her, but you may know her father, Art Spiegelman, who is a cartoonist and a graphic novelist. His novel. His graphic novel, Mouse, which I read in my early, early 20s and changed me forever. Changed me forever. It's an allegory for the Holocaust, but with animals. It's not like Orwell's Animal Farm. It's. It's.
- [66:19]
Gia Tolentino
It's.
- [66:20]
Maureen Callahan
If you've never read it, I. I highly recommend you read it. You give it to any young person or child who's old enough will change you forever. Her mother, Nadia's mother has been the art director of the New Yorker since 1993. Nadia is otherwise undistinguished. I mean, I've really never heard of her. Okay, so the title for this podcast episode, again, as discussed, the rich Don't Play by the rules, so why should I. The readout. The New York Times readout. Why Petit Theft Might be the New Political Protest. Okay, so let's listen to the. The first sound bite, which is Gia talking about why it's okay for her to shoplift from Whole Foods. Here we go. Would you steal from Whole Foods?
- [67:16]
Hassan Piker
You want to go first?
- [67:20]
Gia Tolentino
Yes. And I have under very specific circumstances, I think that stealing from a big box store. I'll just state my platform. It's neither very significant as a moral wrong, nor is it significant in any way as protest or direct action, but I did steal from Whole Foods on several occasions. Like, I've been involved in, like, a neighborhood mutual aid group since 2021. And so every week, I would go get groceries for Ms. Nanc, my now family friend who lived nearby, and she wanted to go to Whole Foods. She wanted food from Whole Foods. So I was like, okay, great. And so I'd be getting the fancy. All our groceries, and then I would finish. I'd be like, oh, my God, four lemons. I forgot four lemons. And on several occasions, I was like, I'm just gonna go back, grab those four lemons, and get the hell out.
- [68:05]
Hassan Piker
And you should go to prison.
- [68:07]
Gia Tolentino
I know you think they're gonna ban me, but I didn't feel. I didn't feel bad about it at all.
- [68:14]
Maureen Callahan
Okay? There are so many things wrong with this. First of all, look at where they're sitting. If you're listening to this, I would encourage you. Go to the. Go to the part of Today's episode on YouTube where you can see them speaking to each other in a pristine, all white, airy, well lit, expensively furnished room. They all look like they have money because they do. Gia lives in a $2.5 million Brooklyn brownstone. The Daily Mail door knocked her over the weekend and you know what she said? I can't believe you came to my fucking house. Believe it, sister. I mean, what kind of a media person are you? You don't understand that when you generate headlines, you're going to get door knocked. Like you can't be that good at what you do. You know, it's very cosseted over in her New Yorker world. Then Hassan sitting there and he's like, you know, they should throw you in jail for that. They should throw you in jail. Such a big deal. You know, Hassan, if Gia didn't look like a wealthy woman shopping in Whole Foods, if she got caught, if she got caught, you know what she would say? Oh my God, it was just a big misunderstanding and that she would be let go. We're going to get to the opinions of real New Yorkers who live in the projects about what this brain trust had to say and their self congratulation. And then she valorizes herself. You know how she kind of frames this? You know, I shop for someone named Ms. Nancy, so it's obviously an old lady. I'm part of a collective and I go shopping for her. You know, listen, there is instacart, okay? There is fresh direct overnight delivery. When my father had cancer, you know, he lived alone for part of that time. And we would make sure he got his groceries by clicking a button. We didn't steal for him. She's such an asshole. She's. And they're, they're laughing about it. Okay, now G is going to say that. And by the way, also logistically what she's saying makes no sense because we've all been at the checkout counter and been like, oh my goodness, this item that I purchased, the packaging is damaged or oh my gosh, I forgot this other item. You know what, Bear with me, guys. I'm really sorry. I'm just going to run back and get it. Because you don't go through the purchase, pack up all of your items, head towards the exit. And in these stores, you can't enter through the exit. It's one or the other and they're like a football field apart. So it makes more sense to just go back and do you know what I'm saying? She thinks the Rest of us out here are fucking idiots. I'm a criminal cultural prosecutor. You can't get anything by me. Now she is going to say it's her own fault for even shopping at Whole Foods in the first place. Here we go. And was part of it because of how you feel about Whole Foods as a corporation?
- [71:11]
Gia Tolentino
Yeah, it already felt like a bit of a compromise. Like at the time I was like I, I had not been to Whole Foods. I had sort of, I had a bit more sort of consumer discipline about where I was spending my money then. And, and I already felt like I was in the hole even by shopping there. And it certainly felt in a utilitarian sense. I was like this is not a big deal.
- [71:32]
Maureen Callahan
The jargon, the self serving jargon. I had more consumer discipline. You know who doesn't have the luxury of having consumer discipline? Poor people and working class people. You know who would kill to have a Whole Foods open in their food desert. Poor people and working class people. But for Gia, a Whole Foods is a no fly zone. Get the out, get the out. These people should be mortified. Mortified. I would love to send Gia up into the projects and try to do some real reporting. They don't play now the New York Post sent some reporters up to the projects in New York City and asked them what they thought of this little brain trust. The headline real New Yorkers furious over microluding writers shoplifting at local Whole Foods. Quote, she is rich. I am not. Published April 23. We don't live on the same planet at all, said Andrea Jones, 49, who lives in Gompers Houses public housing. Because of her, they'll raise the price and I have to pay more. She is hurting me, she said of Gia. She is not helping me. Jones uses food stamps. She called the claims out of touch saying she would likely be tossed in jail for the same crime. And make no mistake, it's a crime. Andrea says quote me being black arrested for sure as soon as I walk in they'd be watching me. They're not watching her. You'd think such self regarding liberals that would be obvious to them. But no. No. Another 65 year old resident going back to the Post piece of the housing project called the sanctimonious five finger discount quote bullshit. What she's saying doesn't make sense. Mr. Bezos will just increase the prices, said the resident who goes by Mr. Carter and is on a fixed income. 65 year old man living in the projects on a fixed income. Gia Hassan, Nadia, you're all Mr. Carter and I quote, she is not doing us a favor. She's in a movement of her own to justify what she's doing. Jenny Garcia, 35, a low income single mom of three, added quote. This is not how you help us. Some of these rich people don't know how to stretch a dollar. They don't have to. They have never walked in poor people's shoes. Couldn't agree more. Now this is a real moral dilemma for these middle aged wealthy would be hipsters. Would you pirate music from an indie rock band? Now the rubber meets the road. Now we've got real stakes. Here we go. Would you pirate music from an indie band?
- [74:34]
Gia Tolentino
Is it 2005 and I'm using limewire because. Yes.
- [74:38]
Maureen Callahan
Off. I feel like every millennial has at some point.
- [74:41]
Gia Tolentino
I mean I feel like fundamentally Spotify is kind of like deleterious to the musician livelihood and I use that. But then I go to shows.
- [74:49]
Maureen Callahan
Gia.
- [74:50]
Hassan Piker
Yeah, I'm pro piracy all the way, like across the board. Would you pirate a car? Yes. You know, if you could, if you
- [74:58]
Maureen Callahan
could pirate a car.
- [74:59]
Hassan Piker
It was just a classic thing back in the day. The, the government funded anti piracy initiatives would be like, would you steal a car?
- [75:08]
Rob Shooter
Yeah.
- [75:08]
Hassan Piker
What if I get away with it? If it was as easy as, you know, pirating.
- [75:14]
Maureen Callahan
IP Hassan Piker. Thank you National Review for your comprehensive wrap up of this over the weekend. I read it avidly. He drives a $200,000 Porsche which means he bought it new. I'm sure he would love it if someone stole that from him. He has a 2.7 million dollar house in Beverly Glen in California. I am sure he would love it if someone broke in and stole his most beloved belongings. He has an estimated net worth of $8 billion. He is also a rape denier, a rape apologist and he's joked about women getting date raped on college campuses. And shame on Nadia and Gia for sitting there and laughing with him. He is a misogynistic pig. Hey everybody, have at it. Have at it. Go steal from those guys. They think it's cool. They think it's so cool. And now we're going to get into what I think is probably the most disgusting. Like these people. We're doing this because these people are, are, are writing in very August, well regarded publications. They get deals to be talking heads on on actual networks. They're doing their own podcasts under the auspices of the New York Times, which is co signing this. Make no mistake, the New York Times is co signing this. These are the people who think they're smarter than the rest of us and they should be telling us how to live and how to think and what to do and what's acceptable and what's morally correct. This question left my jaw on the floor. And the unthinking, reflexive answer. And you know what, the problem with all three of these people here in this room right now, I'm going to tell you, it comes down to something very elemental. They're not cool. They're not cool. They've never been cool. They've always wanted to be cool. And they think an answer like this is cool. Here we go. Would you steal from the Louvre?
- [77:14]
Rob Shooter
Yes.
- [77:16]
Gia Tolentino
I would not be logistically capable of executing such a fact. But would I cheer on every news story of people that I see doing it? Absolutely.
- [77:24]
Maureen Callahan
Absolutely.
- [77:25]
Hassan Piker
Yeah, I, I think it's cool. We gotta, we gotta get back to cool crimes like that, like, you know, bank robberies, right? Stealing, stealing priceless artifacts, things of that nature. I feel like that's way cooler than the 7000th new cryptocurrency scheme that people are engaging in.
- [77:44]
Maureen Callahan
You know, Nadia, the only follow up to that is, why do you think that's cool? Why do you think that's cool? The antiquities and the artworks housed in the Louvre belong to all of us. That's why they're in a museum. It's a violation of all of us when things like that are stolen or defaced or destroyed. I remember when Notre Dame was burning and I had been lucky enough to go to Notre Dame before that happened and to climb to the top and to feel the awe of the human engineering and genius that built that and what it feels like to be in a space that is designed to move you, to move future generations whose lives the artisans who built that thing could never have predicted. What a privilege to be in there. And I remember texting my sister in law when the Notre, when Notre Dame was on fire and I said to her, I feel like I'm losing a person. These people are jokes and you know, they really should just be cut loose. They're ridiculous. That's it, that's it. That does it. That does it. For this edition of the Nerve at night. We will be back on Friday with a full Nerve which we cannot wait to bring you. We're coming at someone who's making the rounds and getting a lot of glad handing with both effing barrels. And we're going to be only, we're going to be the only ones to do it. I can guarantee you from now till Friday no one else is going to do it. If you haven't already, please go check out our sub stack, which is our weekly email@thenerveshow.com be sure to subscribe. It helps the show to grow and to expand our footprint in the culture. Plus Nerve Merch Go grab something for yourself or pick something up for a fellow troublemaker@shophenurve.com and we are less than one week away from the Nerves Met Gala live stream Monday, May 4, 8pm ET be there or be square. I cannot tell you how many meetings we have been having where we are all on the floor dying. We cannot wait. Full details are on the Nerve Show's Instagram page at the Nerve show as well as at my Instagram Maureen Callahan, Writer we will see you back here on Friday for a full episode of the Nerve, where you will never guess what we're about to say next.
- [80:24]
Listener or Caller
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