EXPLOSIVE Jackson Family Revelations, Stephen Colbert's Disrespect, & Amanda Knox's Tasteless Humor

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Episode: EXPLOSIVE Jackson Family Revelations, Stephen Colbert's Disrespect, & Amanda Knox's Tasteless Humor (May 15, 2026)

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Episode Overview

Maureen Callahan delivers a fearless, unfiltered look at current pop culture and true crime outrage. In this episode, she unpacks explosive revelations about the Jackson family in light of a new Michael Jackson biopic and its fallout, skewers Stephen Colbert's public persona and recent indiscretions, and eviscerates Amanda Knox’s post-exoneration attempts at fame—most notably, her turn to stand-up comedy. The tone is sharp, skeptical, and at times caustic, with Maureen unafraid to challenge the sacred cows of media and celebrity.

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1. Jackson Family Bombshells

[01:02]-[40:17]

Main Theme

Veteran journalist and Jackson family confidante Stacy Brown joins Maureen Callahan to dissect new and resurfaced abuse allegations, the real family dynamics and the questionable veracity of claims from those newly surfacing in the media spotlight.

Key Discussion Points

• Latoya Jackson’s 1991 Abuse Revelations ([06:37]-[07:52])
  • Maureen plays a notorious 1991 interview clip where Latoya Jackson alleges sexual abuse by her father Joseph ("Joe") Jackson, including poignant excerpts about her siblings.
    • Quote — Latoya Jackson:
      “My father would get out of the bed with my mother, and he would get into bed with Ribi... Was it happening with you and Janet?” ([06:37]-[07:34])
    • “Yes, he did. Very badly.” ([07:35])
• Stacy Brown’s Insider Info ([08:20]-[13:49])
  • Brown recounts conversations with Rebbie ("Reby") Jackson, confirming digital penetration by Joe Jackson and nuanced family dynamics about reporting and processing th**ese traumatic events.
    • Quote — Stacy Brown:
      “Ruby termed it as fondling, molestation... as far as digital penetration, whereas Latoya termed it as rape.” ([08:20]-[09:25])
    • “Absolutely. And you know her, which was interesting to me...” ([09:35])
  • Brown describes efforts by Reby’s husband, Nathaniel, to force truth-telling and the Jackson family’s 2001 therapy sessions, where abuse was stifled rather than ventilated.
• Michael’s “Secret Second Family”—the Cascios ([15:08]-[24:53])
  • 60 Minutes Australia segment is discussed, highlighting Michael Jackson’s close relationship with New Jersey’s Casio family. Brown affirms, “the Jacksons knew about the Casios... They knew that these people were special to Michael.” ([17:16]-[17:23])
  • Speculation surrounds the authenticity of abuse allegations newly made by Casio family members against Michael—both Maureen and Stacy express skepticism, noting lack of historic consistency and the Casio children’s past sustained defense of Michael.
    • Quote — Stacy Brown:
      “If you told me that everybody, most of them, were telling the truth... the one I would not believe... is the Casios.” ([23:38]-[24:53])
• New Sexual Abuse Allegations from Marie Casio ([25:38]-[27:36])
  • Maureen is sharply skeptical about Marie's claims and questions the psychological and biological consistency.
    • Quote — Maureen Callahan:
      “I don’t think Michael had any interest in women, in girls. I think the sight of a vagina would have repulsed him. It just doesn’t track.” ([27:36])
  • Stacy recalls Lisa Marie Presley’s doubts about Michael’s sexual interest in women ([27:56]-[28:35]) and her feelings about the MTV Awards kiss ([29:13]).
• Jackson Family’s Relationship with Michael ([38:39]-[39:30])
  • Stacy reveals that after the 80s, Michael was “totally divorced from them, with the exception, of course, of his mother.”
  • “The closest sister to him... was Latoya.” ([38:54])

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Her tale is... it seems like a tail.” — Stacy Brown disputing Marie Casio’s story ([27:23])
• “Most people are remembered maybe three generations after they die. That’s it... There are very few William Shakespeares.” — Maureen Callahan ([43:02])

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2. Stephen Colbert's “Disrespect”

[43:32]-[54:18]

Main Theme

Callahan critiques Stephen Colbert’s public persona—decrying him as self-important, performative, and, most recently, disrespectful to his wife during a widely circulated group podcast with fellow late-night hosts.

Key Discussion Points

• Colbert’s Repeated Public “Exit Interviews” & Vanity ([43:32]-[43:56])
  • “He thinks he has changed the world... with his presence sitting behind a desk made of MDF.” ([43:32])
• Objectifying Celebrity Guests ([48:42]-[54:11])
  • Audio clips feature Colbert (on Strike Force 5 podcast) admitting to being distracted by female guests and sharing his “hall pass” list, which Maureen deems “disrespectful to his wife.”
    • Quote — Stephen Colbert:
      “…I could not. I didn’t know what to do with my eyeballs. When Michelle Williams was on for the first time... I better not look directly at her for this entire interview.” ([49:16])
    • “Evie knows all of this,” he claims, in response to a question about his wife’s feelings. When asked who Evie’s “hall pass” would be, Colbert replies, “Evie doesn’t have a TV show.” ([54:11]-[54:18])
  • Maureen spares a few points for Seth Meyers, reading his body language as “kind of disgusted” during Colbert’s admissions.

Notable Quotes

• “You’re a late night talk show host. That is it.” — Maureen Callahan ([43:32])
• “He clearly does not want to get off this topic of what other women he would like to fuck.” — Maureen Callahan ([53:02])

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3. Amanda Knox’s Tasteless Humor

[58:25]-[80:11]

Main Theme

Maureen deeply critiques Amanda Knox’s ever-evolving attempts at fame, from memoirs and documentaries to—now—stand-up comedy, scrutinizing the moral abdication in making jokes about the murder of her former roommate, Meredith Kercher.

Key Discussion Points

• Recap of the Meredith Kercher Case + Amanda’s Behavior Post-Exoneration ([62:18]-[69:14])
  • Stark contrasts are drawn between Amanda’s treatment in U.S. media (framing her as the victim) and the cold facts of the crime.
  • Maureen recounts details like Amanda’s behavior at the scene (“making out at the crime scene... felt like it’s erotically charging her up,” ([64:47])) and her cartwheel at the police station.
  • Kick at Amanda’s relentless self-promotion: multiple memoirs, a Netflix doc, music video, and new Hulu miniseries produced by Monica Lewinsky.
    • Quote — Maureen Callahan:
      “Again, I’m not saying she did it... I really do think part of Amanda’s problem is she freaks most people out. She’s a freak show.” ([73:04])
• Amanda’s Stand-Up Routine and Public Persona ([74:58]-[78:12])
  • Plays excerpts from Amanda’s current act, “Cartwheel,” where Amanda jokes about being “not guilty, just deeply unsettling to the general public.” ([74:58])
  • Uses her own daughter as material—Maureen bristles at Amanda’s four-year-old pretending to reenact her Italian prison story, calling this “further evidence something is off.”
• Respect for Meredith Kercher and Her Family ([66:33]-[80:11])
  • Maureen argues Amanda has failed to live a life of substance for herself or Meredith’s memory, repeatedly questioning the ethics and decency of profiting so thoroughly from the murder case.
  • Strong condemnation for making comedy out of tragedy:
    • “Make no mistake, she’s making fun of this. She’s making fun of Meredith’s murder.” ([79:30])

Notable Quotes and Moments

• “She’s Eli Wiesel over here.” — On Amanda Knox’s self-martyrdom ([64:47])
• “If Amanda knew how to tell a story... she would have told the authorities in Italy a story that made sense.” ([75:45])
• “It’s disgusting. It’s disgusting.” — Maureen on Amanda’s behavior towards Meredith and her family ([74:58])

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Timestamps for Noteworthy Segments

• Latoya Jackson's 1991 Abuse Allegations — [06:37]-[07:34]
• Stacy Brown's Reby Jackson Disclosure — [09:35]-[11:54]
• Discussion of Michael Jackson's Secret Second Family — [16:02]-[19:38]
• Skepticism about Casio Abuse Allegations — [25:38]-[27:36]
• Colbert Strikes Out — [49:16]-[54:18]
• Amanda Knox Stand-up Excerpts — [74:58]-[78:12]

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “The closest sister to him... was Latoya.” — Stacy Brown, [38:54]
• “You’re a late night talk show host. That is it.” — Maureen Callahan, [43:32]
• “If you need help, send up a flare. Teddy Van Halen is always here. Teddy and his SEAL Team 6 extraction technology. We’re always here.” — Maureen Callahan on Stephen Colbert’s wife ([54:11])
• “Again, I’m not saying she did it, but this woman, there is something so off and disturbing about her.” — Maureen Callahan, on Amanda Knox ([74:58])

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

• Maureen Callahan offers a fearless, provocative, and at times scathing take on both media darlings and questionable pop culture redemption arcs. She blends journalism with acerbic commentary, consistently challenging widely accepted narratives and never shying away from naming hypocrisy or exploitation when she sees it.
• Stacy Brown provides invaluable first-hand insights into the Jackson family, adding rare nuance and contradiction to long-held beliefs.
• This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in media criticism, the dark side of fame, and the lingering shadows of America’s most infamous cultural scandals.

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Transcript

[Maureen Callahan]

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[Maureen Callahan]

In case you're listening, it's a Pomeranian eating soup and baking on a rainy day. As I've said, I welcome the era of AI because it's making palms do things that are just too effing cute. Hello, hello and welcome to your Friday edition of the Nerve. I am your host, Maureen Callahan. Stacked and packed today, my friends, as ever. We begin today with many more explosive new bombshells as the Michael Jackson story progresses. In the wake of this movie's box office success, there is going to be a sequel. Joining us again to talk about more revelations, things that the rest of us are going to learn together today, journalist, my former colleague over at the New York Post and former longtime Jackson family friend, Stacy Brown. Then we're bringing it in. Hard, hard for a guy who's been asking for it for a very long time. And then another offender in the culture, a repeat offender who the who the mainstream media keeps propping up and in one way, and this person, I'm going to say it's a shoe in for a nerve reward. 2026 really has it coming. You know, we do have our regulars here, but the gates are wide open and new ones come in every five effing seconds. Today this one is getting the full nerve treatment. She's been asking for it. She gets it. Are you ready? Are you ready? Let's go. If you're looking to lose weight, but you're not interested in painful weekly injections with skin scary side effects, there is an alternative, a weight loss supplement called Lean. The doctors at Brickhouse Nutrition created Lean for frustrated dieters with 10 or more pounds to lose. It's made with studied ingredients that have been shown to lower your blood sugar, burn fat by converting it into energy and to curb your appetite and cravings. One note, lean is not for the casual dieter with only a few pounds to lose. You can get started with 20% off and free rush shipping to add lean to your healthy diet and exercise plan as soon as possible. So visit takelean.com and enter code Maureen for your discount. That's promo code maureenakean.com joining us now, veteran journalist Stacy Brown. Stacy is the senior global correspondent for Black Press Media usa. And he was a close family friend of the Jackson family for over two decades. He, he is the, he's the premier expert on the Jackson family in America. You're not going to find anybody better. And Stacy is also the co author of the book Michael Jackson the Man behind the Mask. Stacey, welcome back to the Nerve.

[Stacy Brown]

It's always good to see you go. It's good to be with you.

[Maureen Callahan]

So you know, I'm so happy you came back because as, as we knew, the story keeps advancing. The Michael Jackson biopic is a blockbuster. There clearly a sequel is in the offing. There's no doubt. On Sunday, 60 Minutes Australia premiered what they called a world exclusive, an interview with Michael Jackson's quote unquote secret second family, breaking their silence as to what they allege Michael did to them as children. But before we get to that, Stacy, I really wanted to talk to you about this clip. This is Latoya Jackson's blockbuster interview with Regis and Kathie Lee. So this is morning television in 1991, upon the publication of her memoir, which I like is out of print and I've ordered and I'm still waiting for it to show up. I can't wait. But she, she talks to Regis and Kathie Lee and to America about the abuse that went on in that house. And she, she says to them that once her brothers were grown, Joe Jackson, the father, who they all called Joe, would punch her brothers in the face. They were men at this point, punch them in the face, send them flying down the stairs. Even though they were grown men, they were still afraid of him. She, she references her mother Catherine's memoir that Joe in which, in which Catherine wrote that Joe had a second family. So we've got echoes here, second family, second secret family that the you're laughing. That the oldest sister Ruby left home at 16. And this is Latoya on why Ruby left the home at 16 years old. And Then you and I are going to talk about this. Here we go.

[Latoya Jackson]

And the reason she left is because my father would get out of the bed with my mother, and he would get into bed with Ribi. And my mother. Ribi would ask my mother, please, mother, get help for him. And she wouldn't. She would not. So Ribi had to leave home. There were times, of course, when my mother would say, joe, not tonight. Leave her alone. Let her rest. Don't get into bed with her. And then Rebi called me, and she said to me, she says, latoya, I have a question I want to ask you. I said, what is it, Ribi? And she said, when I left home, all these sheep. Now, this is just recent. All these years, I wondered if Joseph ever sexually abused you the way he did me. Was it happening with you and Janet? And I couldn't answer her. And she says, please tell me. And I wouldn't. It's things that you don't talk about. She says, latoya, you have to tell me. And I said, ruby, there are just certain things you don't talk about, isn't there? And she says, okay, I understand. And that's when she asked me about Janet. And I said, I don't know what happened to Janet, but what about you, Latoya?

[Maureen Callahan]

Did he sexually abuse?

[Latoya Jackson]

Yes, he did. Very badly. Do you think he did Janet? I don't know. She's never spoken about it. I certainly hope he didn't. She's never spoken about it. My father. It began with me when Ribe left, and then it started with me.

[Maureen Callahan]

So when did you decide that you were going to talk about it?

[Latoya Jackson]

You live with this all your life, and you feel that you're doing something wrong, and you're frightened when this is happening to you and you're embarrassed. I have been embarrassed all my life to ever talk about it, to mention it. Shy, afraid that people can see through me and see that this is happening.

[Maureen Callahan]

Now, Joe and Katherine Jackson have always denied this. At a certain point, Latoya retracted some of those claims. But, Stacy, I was watching you watch that clip, and I was seeing you nodding along.

[Stacy Brown]

Well, a couple things. Yeah, a couple of things it's so interesting to revisit, Latoya, because she. In this clip, and this is like you said, of all people, Regis and Kathie Lee, you know, she goes on there and she tells the story. But another way she has told that story, and I've been a witness to her telling that story, is that it was her who first brought the Sexual abuse from about Joseph to Riby's attention, not the other way around, as she put it. So I'm a little confused. I'm not doubting what she's saying is true as far as the abuse, because Ribey also said there was abuse from. From Joseph. But Ribi termed. And I think you and I talked briefly about this the last time I was on Ribi term. Termed it as fondling, molestation as far as digital penetration, whereas Latoya termed it as rape.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, okay, wait, wait, Stacy, I want to stop there for a second just to be clear. Was Ruby saying that Joe did indeed digitally penetrate her?

[Stacy Brown]

Absolutely.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay.

[Stacy Brown]

Absolutely. And you know her, which was interesting to me. When Ruby was telling me the story, I thought it was interesting.

[Maureen Callahan]

She told this to you directly? One on one?

[Stacy Brown]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

When was this, Stacey?

[Stacy Brown]

This was about 1998, I want to say, because she wanted to do a book and she wanted to mention this. In the book, the whole. Latoya mentioned the secret family she wanted to mention like this. They was convinced. Not to go off topic, but they were convinced that Michael had this love child that didn't really exist. They were convinced of it. Right. There was a kid.

[Maureen Callahan]

How were they convinced of that?

[Stacy Brown]

A kid named Omar stayed at the ranch a lot. Neverland a lot. And Michael would tell him that's his kid, and he really wasn't Michael's kid, but shocker. But. But the thing about it is that, you know, he was very close to Michael. Right. And as far as the family knew and folks got to understand that the last half of Michael's life, his family didn't know him. He didn't deal with them that much.

[Maureen Callahan]

This is such a great point, Stacy, that they did it. Now, before we get back into that, though, I want to come back to you having these very deep conversations with Reby. Again, you knew the family for decades. You were close to them. Re's, if Ruby's got no reason to lie to you, if anything, you're going to sniff that out as a lie.

[Stacy Brown]

Well, I tell you what, another reason why she did lie about it at the time. You know, unfortunately, husband passed away. I. I guess about seven, eight years ago now. But she had a husband that. That was very. You know, I'm for the truth. He was for telling it like it was. That was Nathaniel Brown, her husband. And. And he was really. When she told me the story for her book, he wanted to make sure that the facts were the facts. He wanted to make sure that everything was told. Because his biggest thing was Tell it, tell it, tell it. Because, to be honest, he had a real problem with the Jackson family, including, and especially Joseph, because of what he did to, you know, his wife. And Ribi left because she married, you know, going Back to what Latoya said, she married Nathaniel. They were 18 years old when they got married.

[Maureen Callahan]

Not 16 so much, though. Yeah, well. Well, Latoya maintains that Ruby left the home at 16.

[Stacy Brown]

She left at 18, though, when they got married.

[Maureen Callahan]

At 18 when they got married. But that says a lot, you know, because this was. This is not the 50s. This is not the 1890s. For a young woman who comes from a rich, famous, powerful family to go from one man, her father, to another, her husband, without any sort of, you know, independence of her own, so to say. I think that says a lot. I think that speaks to a very traumatized young woman who was looking to get out and looking for protection from another man.

[Stacy Brown]

Well, you know, too. And let me. Let me tell you this. That in 20 now, like I said, 1998, 1977 or so is when, you know, Reb told me this story. Well, in 2001, 2002, the family began seeing a therapist as a whole without Michael. And when Reby brought this up in therapy, her brothers and Joseph, everyone was there for the therapy sessions, like I said, except for Michael. And they refused to let her talk about this in the therapy sessions. In fact, one of Jackie's lines was, you know, that. Why bring that up now that, you know this is not what this is all about, when, in fact, therapy is about all of that?

[Maureen Callahan]

Right, right. So back to latoya's claims. When she says, you know, Joe sexually abused me, he sexually abused Ribi. We don't know what happened to Janet, if anything. And the last time you were here, we spoke about Joe likely sexually abusing all of the children.

[Stacy Brown]

Yeah, there was that rumor.

[Maureen Callahan]

Do you. And you thought there was some. Some real credence to those reports?

[Stacy Brown]

Yeah, based on where I heard it from. Yes, absolutely. You know, really. I think I told you she had a really close friend at the time. You talk about 12 years old, right. Who. Who told her? Well, he's doing this to your little brothers, too.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes. You know, it's interesting, too, because in preparing to speak with you again and talk about this bombshell 60 Minutes report, I. I realized that Catherine Jackson, the matriarch, also published a memoir, and it's out of print, just like latoya's. We at the Nerve were able to find one copy in existence in America. Stacy would you believe you would, you would know. It goes for three. We bought it, it costs $300. You know, it's like, it's almost like the family has done a really great job of kind of scrubbing their history. Whether it was in advance of this film or what the timeline of that was, I don't know, but. But we're going to look in this piece from 60 Minutes Australia. The secret second family, how they came to know Michael Jackson. And a lot of what they have to say is backed up by a lot of home video in which Michael is a gleeful participant. Here we go.

[60 Minutes Australia Narrator]

In 1986, Michael Jackson was a late night surprise visitor to the Cassio family home in New Jersey.

[Stacy Brown]

That's cute.

[Maureen Callahan]

I can't believe it. See, then Michael's here. Can you believe?

[60 Minutes Australia Narrator]

It was the early days of an unlikely friendship between this humble Italian family and the biggest superstar in the world. A friendship so close, Michael Jackson called them his secret second family.

[Maureen Callahan]

That's cute.

That's my friend, my friend. My parents were young for them to have this such a big celebrity. Want to be friends with them and want to know their children. And visiting in the middle of the night, it definitely felt special. And so did we.

Michael having a pillow fight with the children. Stacy, what do you know about the Cassio family and Michael's involvement with them?

[Stacy Brown]

So he met the father, Dominic, who was working at the Helmsley Palace Hotel back in the early 1980s. And the Jacksons actually stayed there during the Victory tour when they visited New York City. Yes, New York City. And became very, very close with Dominic and the children. In fact, a lot of people may not know that after the 911 attacks, you know, Michael had a concert the night before in New York in 2001. And while the family was looking to flee back to California, they rented buses to go back. Michael took refuge at the Caskills home in Franklin Lakes, New Jersey. Those were his people, the Casios, the kids, Frank, Dominic the father, Dominic the son, Aldo. They were all my. Like, it wasn't necessarily a secret to people who knew Michael, who knew the family, who knew the Jacksons. The Jacksons knew about the Casios?

[Maureen Callahan]

They really?

[Stacy Brown]

Oh, absolutely. The Jacksons knew that, you know, they knew that these people were special to Michael.

[Maureen Callahan]

What was it about this family, Stacey? And what did the Jacksons make of Michael's preference to stay with this family, other family, in New Jersey rather than go home to California or frankly any other place he could have rented a private plane and, and, and escaped to?

[Stacy Brown]

Well, a couple Things with that, he could have rented a private plane. Right. But if you remember, you. You were in New York, right. 9 11, they. Nothing was flying.

[Maureen Callahan]

But Stacey, can I tell you something? You mentioned those two shows right before 9 11. I was at one of those shows.

[Stacy Brown]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

So was with a friend of mine. Were you? Oh, my God. So we were. Okay, we were there and I was with a friend of mine who said to me he was very concerned because if terrorists wanted to strike New York, the Garden. Michael. Michael. It was a 30th tribute. Like that would be the place to target the Garden. The nights he said that. And I said, you're out of your mind. Getting real. You know, and then September 11th, like, we both. We both kept our tickets stuck subs. It was September 10th.

[Stacy Brown]

Yes. The day after it was 9 11. Right. Wow. Well, I know that, you know, in between. And. And the Casios were at the Tavern on the Green. There was. In between the shows. You know, there was one that Friday night before, and they had a huge celebration at Tavern on the Green, Central Park. And I know that they were there. They were every. The Cassio family was always present. They were in the background, but they were always present. But the fact that, that he took a liking to this family was not, you know, the family. His family always thought, listen, he's acting out his childhood. That's. That was always what they would say. He's acting out his childhood. The childhood he didn't have. And so the boys, the young. The young boys and even the daughter, Marie, I think is her name.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah.

[Stacy Brown]

You know, these were people that he. He played with, he played on the floor with. He, you know, he played board games and video games and, you know, travel with. So they knew. They did know that.

[Maureen Callahan]

But did they think, did they feel resentment? You know, why is it that Michael, especially after a traumatic event like 9 11, if you were in New York City on 9 11, you were traumatized. You know, they flee as soon as they can get a bus together to take them back. I mean, planes were grounded for help

[Stacy Brown]

them get the buses. Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

How'd you do that?

[Stacy Brown]

So I was in New Rochelle, New York at the time. I was working for the Journal News. And Jermaine calls me, then Joseph calls me and like, how do we get out of New York? And say, you can't get out of New York. Well, we need to get. You know, we can't fly. We can't. And so Jermaine asked about these. Not SUVs. What do you call the. The huge motorhomes the motorhomes.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, like, okay, okay.

[Stacy Brown]

Rvs. And so there was a place in Long Island City that I knew about. And so, you know, Jermaine and I called over and he got Janet on the phone who gave them her credit card information. And they got, I think it was wild. Yeah, they got like three RVs and they, you know, family and, and certain, because it was a, a lot of, the, lot of the kids were there. The, the, the kids of Jermaine and, and, and Jackie and et cetera, et cetera, they were there. And so they, they needed three of these huge RVs and they made it back to California in these RVs.

[Maureen Callahan]

It's like the image of like you, Jermaine and Janet on a, with some guy in Long Island City who I'm sure was like, I'm sure I'm talking to Janet Jackson right now, giving me her, you know, it's like wild. Okay, now back to the more serious stuff. We are going to go Back to the 60 Minutes Australia report, which this, this clip in particular I really want your take on because we are getting footage that I, I think is, is. I've never seen this footage in any of the documentaries. There's always footage from inside and outside Neverland, but I feel like every time we on the outside get a peek of it, it tells us something new. So I'm really interested in your response to this. Here we go.

[60 Minutes Australia Narrator]

Michael Jackson's theme park home, where he was the king of the kids. But in truth, it was a house of horrors.

[Maureen Callahan]

It's a dollhouse.

There was a private room.

Private room upstairs. Yeah, I remember that.

Oh, my God, that's up there.

[Stacy Brown]

Yeah, I went in that room.

[60 Minutes Australia Narrator]

Tonight, the Casio family's shocking revelations. Each and every one of them say they were molested by the pop star. But incredibly, none knew of each other's abuse. What does that make Michael Jackson in your mind?

[Maureen Callahan]

It's a monster.

[Stacy Brown]

He's evil.

[Maureen Callahan]

What he did was evil and he's tricked the whole world.

Stacy, before we start on that, I just want to ask, have you been inside Neverland? Were you there?

[Stacy Brown]

Oh, my gosh. I spent so many time, so much time at Neverland. I always said that one of the best vacations I've ever had was at Neverland. I probably been to Neverland a dozen times or more. I've been in that room that they're talking about above the game room. There's a two story game room that he had and there's a room, but there was a room everywhere. The train station, the movie theater had rooms and mostly you'd have disabled kids who, you know, needed a break, lay down or whatever. I know about the room. I've seen that particular room I've been in. So it didn't, you know, it was kind of weird seeing that in the clip, but I can see where. And listen, I will say this. The Casio family is the, you know, if you told me that everybody, most of them, were telling the truth. Right. As far as all of the alleged victims. Right. The one I would not believe, and I hate to say it, I don't believe the victim, but the one I can't believe is the Casios, the Cassios were just. Because the Cassios were not only were they always in defense of Michael and not just in defense of him. Sometimes you could defend someone. Like, you could look at Wade Robson on the stand and you could say, well, you know, maybe he's, you know, being overly cautious. But the Cassios. Frank went so far. Frank Cassio went so far as to, you know, bring in his friends, to, to help Michael, to, to, to, to help protect him from allegations, to, to go to great lengths put himself on the line for Michael. And then after Michael dies, he, you know, he, now he's free to talk about whatever he wants, but he choses to write a book to say how great Michael was. And, and, and then he goes on Oprah Winfrey show to say how great Michael was, that Michael never would have harmed anyone. I just.

[Maureen Callahan]

Three of the Cassios siblings.

[Stacy Brown]

Yes.

[Maureen Callahan]

Three of the Cassios. See, I just did a column for the Daily Mail about this as well. I'm in your camp, Stacey. I think most of the allegations that are brought by boys now, men who say Michael did this to me, I tend to believe them. You know, this story. This is weird to me. First of all, based on what you're saying, that the Cassio family entire was at Tavern on the Green in between those two big shows at the Garden, right before 911 says to me the parents were there, that the parents were always there, that the family, Dominic, the father. The other thing we're going to listen to Marie Cassio's allegation of sexual abuse. And on the back end, I'm going to tell you why I find this difficult to believe. And I wonder if you feel the same way. Here we go.

[Marie Cassio]

He just kept saying, like, this is normal. It's normal between a man and a woman to be naked. And so he said, can you please undress for me? So I did. I was 12 years old. And he asked me to spread my legs and he asked to look at my vagina. And he proceeded to go close to it and he sniffed it. He looked at it and he admired it and was like, wow, was he naked as well at that time? He just took out his penis, but showed it to me. And then that was it, that first meeting. And then he proceeded to talk about how this is something special between myself and him and that I cannot share this with anyone in my family or anyone for that matter.

[60 Minutes Australia Narrator]

And how often did that type of encounter occur?

[Marie Cassio]

It continued on pretty for, for a few years after that.

[Stacy Brown]

And the family, according to this report, never discussed the abuse, the alleged abuse amongst each other. They didn't know the other one. I just don't believe that. And then you can't have it both ways because even the FBI tells you they're, they're, they're, you know, the specialists who deal with, you know, special victims will tell you that a. Someone who, A man who molest boys has no interest whatsoever in girls. Thank you.

[Maureen Callahan]

Thank you.

[Stacy Brown]

And so, you know, and her. It seems again, you hate to go against a victim to say you don't believe a victim, but her tale is. It seems like, it's just that Maureen, it seems like a tail.

[Maureen Callahan]

She seems like an alleged, she's an alleged victim. But when she says something like, you know, Michael then admired her vagina. I don't think Michael had any interest in women, in girls. I think the sight of a vagina would have repulsed him. It just doesn't track.

[Stacy Brown]

Listen, I had a conversation once, a great conversation with Lisa Marie Presley. And this was after she divorced Michael and, and Lisa said that it was. She was very candid that they had, you know, sexual relations because they were married. But she doubted seriously that he was. This is her. She doubted seriously that he was interested in sex with her.

[Maureen Callahan]

Really? Did she say why?

[Stacy Brown]

She said that he would never be around. He was not that type. She said he was not that guy. She said, you know, he would make a woman feel like she is just not desirable because he had no desire.

[Maureen Callahan]

Did she talk to, did she talk to you at all, Stacy, about. Remember that video? I think it was for you are Not Alone that he did. After marrying Lisa Marie, everybody thought, oh, he's trying to distract from the whispers and the allegations about children. And there was that scene of them where they're together and she's naked from behind. And it's, he's, he's. He was sort of, you know, in a non. Subtle Way. Trying to say, look, I'm a grown heterosexual man who enjoys lots of sex with my wife, you know, and it did. Did she talk to you at all about the making of that video?

[Stacy Brown]

No, she didn't. What we did talk about was the. The infamous MTV kiss.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, what did she say to you about that?

[Stacy Brown]

She. She called it one of the most uncomfortable moments she's experienced with a guy because she, you know, they. And so interesting because it happened more than once, the kiss we all remember. Right. And she said that, you know, she knew that he was only pandering to the. To the cameras. He was only. He was only pandering to the audience, and she didn't like that. Then came the. The great performance he put on at the 1995 MTV Awards, where he opened the show with a performance. And she made it clear before that performance, and she told me this, she didn't want any. She didn't want to be on camera. She didn't want him singing to her, which he did. He sang you are not Alone to her from the stage. And she was angry and. Because I asked her specifically about that, because I said to her, I said, you know, and this wasn't an interview, this was just a conversation. And I said, you looked really upset. Then she said, stacy, she said, you can't imagine how angry I was that night. I specifically told him. And listen, I. I will say this. Lisa loved Michael. She. If she wasn't.

[Maureen Callahan]

That was clear. I think that was clear. She did seem to love him. She seemed very protective of him. But I wonder, Stacy, did you ever have occasion to ask her if she ever worried about her own son Benjamin in the Michael years?

[Stacy Brown]

We talked a little bit about that. Not about Benjamin, but we talked a little bit about. I asked her, I had to ask her what, you know, about all the stuff that happened. People say that he only married you because of the allegations and the disagreements.

[60 Minutes Australia Narrator]

And.

[Stacy Brown]

And she flat out said, I don't. I don't believe the allegations. She said, he's. Her words, he's weird. But I. That's not something I will ever believe is what she told me.

[Maureen Callahan]

Wow. Yeah, wow.

[Stacy Brown]

She said he was weird.

[Maureen Callahan]

She said he was weird. She didn't believe the allegations. I wonder if. If she were still with us, if. If her mind might be changed a little bit. You know, before. Before we let you go, I'm curious as to what you think is going to happen with the case that Wade Robson and James Safechuck are bringing against the estate, which I believe is slated for Trial in November. Do you think it makes it to trial?

[Stacy Brown]

You know, I think it goes to trial because the estate, I believe, and I was told by someone who would know that Prince Jackson, Michael's son, charged the estate, said, you will never, we don't want any more settlements. You will fight. Really. And you know, he put his foot down from what I was told. Now, you know, I don't know if John Branca agrees or John McClain agrees or whatever, but I do know that, that that was a mandate from Prince Jackson. Anybody makes allegations against the eldest son, anybody makes any more unfounded allegations against my father, no settlement.

[Maureen Callahan]

The last thing I'm going to ask you about, Rob Shooter, who is a regular on the Nerve, had an exclusive report published May 9, 2026 that a faction of the Jackson family would be willing to, quote, sell out Michael's secrets, tell the real story for the right amount of money in a sequel. And that there are other family members, as you mentioned, Prince among them, Catherine and Prince and Blanket who are like, absolutely not. That will never happen. What do you know about that and what the, what they mean by tell the, tell the real story, tell the secrets.

[Stacy Brown]

Well, first, I don't doubt the reporting at all, but it would be shock me if any of them at this point because it's a, the success of the, the movie and you know, there will be another movie. If you told me this 15 years ago, yeah, I could, I could believe somebody would sell out, sell them because that's, that's why he's, that's another reason he stayed away from them. You know, he's got some sellouts in that family without question. He knows, he knew that. And, and that's, you know, good for him that he stayed away from them in that sense. But, but I find would be shocking at this point that anybody in that family, in that you know, immediate family anyway, the meaning the brothers or the sister would sell him out when they,

[Maureen Callahan]

what would they sell out?

[Stacy Brown]

He said, what would they sell? No. Well, I'm just responding to what you're saying about secrets. Giving out any secrets, any supposed secrets. I don't know what secrets they would have at this point that they have not yet spilled because in the past, you know, you read a lot of, not you per se. People read a lot of, of tabloid, a lot of national inquire, no you know, radar online stuff. And, and what they never understood, which I saw firsthand, was that some, a lot of that stuff came from family members who were getting paid to give these stories.

[Maureen Callahan]

I Think most people had. No, I didn't know that.

[Stacy Brown]

Oh, I knew that before.

[Maureen Callahan]

I had no idea that Michael's own family members were selling stories to Radar Online, to the National Enquirer, to wherever.

[Stacy Brown]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Maureen Callahan]

Wow.

[Stacy Brown]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

You know, there was an Image in this 60 Minutes piece that I want to show you, because, speaking of, you know, this is a. In terms of stories about Michael and rumors, this is a far less controversial one. But there were always rumors that Michael had had so much surgery on his nose that the tip wasn't affixed anymore, and it was always denied. But there's this photo of Michael Jackson that they showed in the 60 piece, and I want to show it up here. And to me, Stacey, it looks like there's no doubt the tip of his nose seems to be affixed to his face with, like, electrical tape.

[Stacy Brown]

Yeah, yeah. That was something that I had talked about as well. I remember when he got inducted into the Rock and Roll hall of Fame, and I. Catherine, none of the family was there was going. It was in New York at the time, that particular ceremony, that was in 2001. And I remember Catherine asking me, answer me, you know, are you going? I'm like, yeah, I'm going, because I was in New York. And she says, well, tell me what you think. Tell me how. How he looks to you, how he, you know, is he okay? And I remember approaching him. He was with Justin Timberlake and Bob Jones, and I remember approaching him, and I just thought, oh, my gosh. It was the worst that. That he had ever, in my opinion, the worst that he had ever looked. Including what you're pointing out with the nose. It was. It wasn't a nose. And then there was. It just looked like. It almost looked like somebody just placed, you know, you have those. Those disguises, but somebody placed a plastic, you know, prosthetic on. On him and didn't do a good job of putting it there. He just looked just. I. I was extremely disturbed. And, you know, I told Catherine, I told Jermaine, and, you know, like, you guys got to do something. You got to do something. And I know that a couple months later, they did try a. An intervention with him. And, you know, they did what they could at that point.

[Maureen Callahan]

What was the intervention for, Stacy?

[Stacy Brown]

Well, they were under the impress. Well, no, it was for drugs because they always. Everything always, in their view, came back to drugs. They had been hearing from people who had, you know, worked with him and people who had been around him that he was on drugs, which really, they were never able to substantiate though, that was the weird thing. But I guess when you consider he never really let them to that. To be that close. As I said earlier, the last half of his life, they barely knew him. So it goes back to your question about the secrets. The only secrets that they could potentially tell has to have happened like, you know, during the Thriller and bad years when they knew him, because after that, they didn't know him. Once the 90s rolled around, once he. Once Neverland came about in the late 80s, he was totally divorced from them, with the exception, of course, of his mother.

[Maureen Callahan]

What about Janet? And then I realized I'm taking. We were running over. But it's so good. It's so good because the relationship with Janet I find fascinating. She is the second most famous Jackson beloved. She used her considerable star power and. And goodwill that she had acr over the decades to perform with Michael in that. In that video for the single Scream, which everybody knew was his complete rebuke to all of these child molestation charges. They filmed that video in secret. It was a huge deal. It was almost as if Janet never had to give another interview. She was clearly saying, I stand with my brother. These are lies. But at that point, my understanding is they weren't really close either.

[Stacy Brown]

No. 100% they were not close. In fact, people might be surprised. But watch the movie. Watch the Michael movie. The closest sister to him, the closest family member to him was Latoya.

[Maureen Callahan]

Wow.

[Stacy Brown]

And that's what made what she did to him. It was so heartbreaking. But at the same time, he welcomed her back when she recanted. He welcomed her back with. With open arms. They were very close. And. And people wonder why she was the only sister portrayed in the movie and really of the brothers. The brothers really didn't have a speaking part in this movie. She did.

[Maureen Callahan]

That's so telling.

[Stacy Brown]

It's very telling. And I had always told people, no, the closest person to him and that family, other than Catherine was Latoya.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, my goodness.

[Stacy Brown]

Yes. And that's why Latoya. Latoya had this power over him, and she was. And that's what made it so devastating when she went against him publicly.

[Maureen Callahan]

We will continue this and you surely come back for yet another installment, because this, to me, Stacey, is such. This is. This is a saga of an American family. You. This story only happens in America. This kind of fame only happens in America. And you had. Excuse me, why is my. My phone is going off like crazy. You had. You were. You were. You were in it. You were in it with them for the, for, for the, for the bulk of it. And I can't wait to talk to you again. Thank you so much for coming on the Nerve.

[Stacy Brown]

Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

[Maureen Callahan]

See you soon. Coming up, we have a figure who is currently getting the velvet glove treatment. In the media, fellow celebrities are weeping about this person. They're testifying about this person. You would think this person had split the atom. The culture came to the Nerve and said, here you go, here's the way you guys are going to take this person to the woodshed and it's going to be a very short 10 tenure in there. I'll tell you why, because this person is going right to the wood chipper. We are back in a minute. Your liver does more than you know when it comes to regulating energy, hormones, digestion and even your mood. But stress, toxins and processed foods are constantly overloading it. What can you do? Introducing Peak's Liver Detox Protocol. This two step system is both gentle and powerful. Peak leverages nature's most potent botanicals, minerals and vitamins, combines them with their cutting edge extraction technology, and creates supplements that make a difference. Their protocol has two main parts. A strong Sri Lankan turmeric mixed with cinnamon and black pepper to help your body absorb it better, and a spicy Sri Lankan ginger combined with cinnamon to support your immune system, improve blood flow and help with digestion. This all leads to less bloating, steadier energy and a clearer head. No miracles, just consistent well being. Peak elevates nature's best with cutting edge tech. It's pure and effective. So ditch the fads and commit to intentional health. Unlock 20 off and establish your powerful foundation for sustained well [e-mail] thenerve that's P I Q U E life.com thenerve

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Oh, no.

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[Maureen Callahan]

We are back. Now, before we get into this, I have a very important question for all of the troublemakers. Should we be covering the Alex Murdaugh trial? And like the most recent developments, he was just granted, I believe, a retrial in the double murder conviction of his wife and son. If it's, if you guys want it, you got it. You tell us now. We have someone else to prosecute. In the meantime, Stephen Colbert. Okay, now my dislike of him is purely like as a person. You know, I don't think he's funny. I think he's high on his own supply. He's puffed up with self regard. You are a late night talk show host. That is it. You know, there's this guy named God Naval Ravikant, if I'm saying his name right. And there's this book that is, he's like this brilliant guy and there's this book that's just full of his observations and thoughts. And one of the ones that has stuck with me the most is that for people who are chasing fame, you know, if you think that's going to fill a hole or like, make sure that like successive generations know you, most people are remembered maybe three generations after they die. That's it. That's it. There are very few William Shakespeares, there are very few Aristotle's. You know, it's, it's, it's a, it's a small club. But Stephen Colbert, you can tell this guy thinks he has changed the world with his presence sitting behind, you know, a desk made of mdf like, you know, not even real wood, I'm going to guess, talking to the likes of whoever slinging their wares in the public square. Anyway, he has done no shortage of exit interviews. My understanding, as someone who's been in the workforce since she was 17 years old, is that an exit interview happens once per job. But Stephen has been giving exit interviews to anyone who will ask. He's very promiscuous with it, which I think dilutes the message. Anyway, he went on, there's this intermittent podcast that I believe, I believe it's intermittent and it's all the, all the guys of late night getting together, talking about the club that they're in. By the way, David Letterman recently told the New York Times that he thinks late night as a genre will be dead before the year is out or like within a year, a calendar year. You know, Letterman, seen a thing or two. So Stephen is joined by his fellow soldiers in self regard. You've got Jimmy Fallon, John Oliver, Jimmy Kimmel, Seth Meyers, and Stephen Colbert. And if you think that Seth Meyers is probably the least offensive, remember he was at the Met gala this year, Friends with Anna Wintour. Okay, so Stephen who otherwise, again and again, the people who are the most vocal about this, they're always the one. They're always the ones. Trust me, I got theories, okay? He, like, he's like, oh, I was a Sunday school teacher and I'm a big Christian. I. My faith gets me through everything. And, you know, I just. I've been married to the same woman forever and I just live in suburban New Jersey. And, you know, so what if I dress and talk like it's 1955? It doesn't mean I have issues with women or prefer a time when, like, they weren't independent or, you know, could do things for themselves and were seen and not heard. Absolutely not. Like, the guy freaks me out. He looks like he was frozen in amber in 1955. Like, his hair literally looks like it's brill creamed. I don't even know if they sell brill cream anymore. Anyway, here's a photo of Stephen with his wife. I think she pronounces it Evie. They have been married for 32 years, Steven and Evelyn McGee. His name is really pronounced Colbert. He came up with Colbert and said it was like, you know, kind of farcical for the Colbert Report, but really I think he's just a pretentious fuckwit. This is from The Strike Force 5 podcast published on YouTube on May 13th featuring the aforementioned colleagues. Stephen is going to talk about all the famous guests who came on his show that he wanted to fuck. Perhaps I'm extrapolating, but it's really baked into all of his answers. And if you're listening, I am going to encourage you to go to the YouTube episode. Watch this segment of the show in the middle because you got to see the expressions and the body language, not just on Stephen, but on these fellow geeks. Okay? They're all geeks who got into comedy because they couldn't get laid. Here we go.

[Stacy Brown]

Has there been a guest who was so attractive that you found it distracting?

[Maureen Callahan]

I'll tell you who I did not expect to be wildly attracted to. Like, I could. I didn't know what to do with myself is that I did not. Because I don't. I don't. I like this person's work, but I Never thought of them as, like a bombshell. I could not. I didn't know what to do with my eyeballs. When Michelle Williams was on for the first time, she sat down across to me and I went, fuck. What's wrong with my head? I cannot. I better not look directly at her. For this entire interview, there was something about her, her vibe, her face, everything. Have you interviewed her?

[Stacy Brown]

Yeah, yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

She's so beautiful.

You know, you could maybe let one of those go by. I mean, if I were his wife, I wouldn't let any of it go by. It's so disrespectful to. To his wife, who looks like a normal woman of a certain age. You know, she's not in the Hollywood ma. She's not in the system. She doesn't have to starve herself and get plastic surgery and have hair extension. You know what I mean? There's more. Stephen's not done. He's got more women he wants to fuck. Here we go.

I used to have a Rachel Vice problem. I've recovered okay. When racial vice would be on the Daily Show, I would leave the building for fear that I would say something stupid to her. Even though I, like. I feel like I was afraid I would, like, stand the hallway and go, hi. You know, like, you were great in the Constant Stephen. You were great in the Constant Gardener.

I will say this. I'm going to give Seth Meyers points because his body language is giving a lot to us. He's leaned back and away from Stephen. His arms are crossed over his torso. He's nodding, but he's looking kind of disgusted. I. I don't think Seth Meyers would do this to his wife. And I think that's kind of what's going through Seth's head, that this is really disrespectful. Now this comes up unprompted. No, wait. Does it. Maybe he. Maybe. Maybe a question that one of these jokers asked him, like, prompted this. I don't know. It's not the point. Because Stephen wants us all to know that it's not just him lusting after these younger, much more attractive, much more famous charismatic women. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Stephen is an object of lust himself. Wouldn't you know? Here we go.

We were going around the table once at dinner with some friends of mine and these guys going, like, so who's your hall patch? Whatever. Like that. And the guy next to me goes, Paul to Port Scova. And I. This is the. Midway through the Colbert Report, I pulled up my phone, opened The People magazine app on phone. And I was Paina Portzkova's hall pass. Oh my God, that's nice. Yeah, that was a flex that I've never ever been able to match.

Jimmy Fallon. The battery kicked back in. It's. It's lower wattage, it's drained for the day, you know, But Jimmy's the one doing the most. He's like, what? Wow, buddy. Wow. You know that. What's it. What's baked into that was. What's implied is that Stephen Colbert kept that, that, that little item on his phone. I don't think he had to pull up the app. I think he screenshot it. I think it's in his little library. I think he revisits it from. Revisits it. Excuse me. From time to time. And by the way, Steven, it's not necessarily a flex because Paulina herself is vocal about not liking conventionally attractive guys. She was married to Rick Ocasek from the Cars, okay? Very talented guy. Looked kind of like an alien. Her current fiance, I'm sure, is a wonderful guy, but he's not like. He's not like Brad Pitt, you know, it's not a flex. Maybe she just wants to seem smart and thinks you're smart. You know what I'm saying? Now I would like to say that we're going to move on, but Steven will not move on. He clearly does not want to get off this topic of what other women he would like to fuck. Here we go.

Who else is wildly attractive? Who is, you know, that. Rebecca Ferguson.

Yeah.

And a great, I will say, great interview.

[Stacy Brown]

Great interview. Because she's.

[Maureen Callahan]

She brings game.

Now for all of the decent people out here, the troublemakers who would say Stephen Colbert is being an absolute pig to his wife, I am going to guess his long suffering wife. Okay. And I feel for you, sister, when this guy comes home when the show is over and he starts having a crisis for the ages because the world keeps spinning and the rest of us are out here happily living our lives without Stephen Colbert on network tv five nights a week. It's going to be dark. It's going to be dark. If you need help, send up a flare. Teddy Van Halen is always here. Teddy and his SEAL Team 6 extraction technology. We're always here. Stephen is here to disabuse us peremptorily and let us know that his wife has no problem with any of this. Here we go.

Evie knows all this.

[Stacy Brown]

Who is hers?

[Maureen Callahan]

Evie doesn't have a TV show.

He says Evie knows all of this and Kimmel says to him, well, who's hers? Who's her hall pass? And he says, well, Evie doesn't have a TV show because that's what's really important in life. Do you have a TV show? Have you been? Have you been? A quick reminder, keep your feedback coming. Email me [e-mail] or DM me on Instagram at Maureen Callahan, Writer or at the Nerve Show. Remember, subscribe to the Nerves Substack. That is our weekly email. It will hit your inbox a few hours after Friday's show. Today's show, the last full nerve of the week. And it's got lots of exclusive bonus extra content to tide you over till the mini. Go to thenerveshow.com you'll see the prompt right there up at the top. Up next, another one. Another one that the mainstream media treats as remarkable. A true survivor, something of a latter day living saint. You know what? Stump grinder burn pile. I'm not going to spoil it for you, but once you see it, you won't be able to unsee it. We are back in a minute. Whether you're a skincare maximalist or a soap and water minimalist, we eventually hit a wall where our skin just doesn't respond to product the way it used to. That's why One Skin is an absolute game changer. It's not just another moisturizer. It's it is a radical shift in how we treat aging skin. As we age, we accumulate zombie cells, cells that stop functioning but hang around, causing fine lines and dullness. But One Skin's proprietary OS1 peptide was engineered by longevity scientists to actually target these cells at the source. So you're getting the luxury feel of high end skincare, but with science that most brands haven't even touched yet. This stuff is really great. I love it. It goes on. It feels very substantial, like your skin is getting. Your skin is drinking in a lot. It goes on very lightly though, and it absorbs very quickly. It's really great. It's born from over a decade of longevity research. One Skin's OS1 peptide is proven to target the visible signs of aging, helping you to unlock your healthiest skin now. And as you age, for a limited time, try one skin with 15 off using code nerve at OneSkin Co nerve. That's 15 off at OneSkin Co with Code Nerve. After you purchase, they're going to say, hey, where did you hear about us? Please support our show. Tell them you're a troublemaker and that the Nerve sent you in a contracting

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[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, no.

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[Maureen Callahan]

We are back. Now it is time to address a cultural repeat offender who is singular in the culture because it's not often one is found guilty of a brutal homicide, has that conviction eventually vacated, and decides what they want to do is get into stand up comedy. Now a quick recap. Amanda Knox was convicted of the murder of her roommate Meredith Kercher in Italy in 2007. She was sentenced to serve 26 years in an Italian prison. In 2011, the conviction was overturned. Knox was released, sent back to the United States. One would have thought, okay, a memoir, sure. A sit down interview with an Oprah, a Diane Sawyer, sure. Then you would think this person would recede into a private life and try to build something of real substance for herself. Or, or if this person wanted to use their notoriety, let's not confuse fame for notoriety for good. Maybe she would have gotten into something like the Innocence Project or established a foundation, done something really meaningful with a horrible experience she went through. Now, I'm going to say this at the top of this segment as we were putting it together. You know, I like, consumed a lot of the media coverage of this trial contemporaneously in the aftermath. There was a book written by a really good journalist about the case called the Price of Beauty. And the American coverage from the beginning was that Amanda was absolutely innocent. Absolutely innocent. And in putting this together, I began to have some questions. I really began to have some questions. I'm not saying she did it. I'm just saying I have some questions now. What sparked this? Amanda. And we're going to run through her resume because she like, she's like Meghan Markle. She's Been throwing everything against the wall to try to be a megastar like a real celebrity. She is set to debut a stand up comedy show at the 2026 Edinburgh Festival Fringe in August or the Fringe Festival. Right, it's called the Fringe Festival. What could she possibly be joking about? I mean, she certainly wouldn't joke about the savage murder of a young woman, a beautiful, brilliant young woman with her entire life ahead of her, would she? Would she? We're going to begin with an excerpt from the original 48 hours reporting on this case. I'll never forget watching this. It was fascinating. This Originally aired on April 11, 2009. And. And you have to really pay attention to the way in which the reporter speaks about this, the way the script is written, because it's telling us what to think. It's telling us what to think. The first words in this clip, Amanda's troubles began. Amanda's troubles. Amanda's in crisis. Amanda's being victimized. Here. Amanda's the one who's the victim Here. Amanda's troubles began. What about Meredith? Why is Amanda a suspect? See what I'm saying? See what? Here we go.

[Stacy Brown]

Amanda's troubles began, innocently enough on the morning of November 2, 2007, when police found two cell phones that belonged to Meredith and brought the phones back to the house Meredith and Amanda shared. They found Raphael and Amanda there in a, you know, worried, disturbed state. Date. Amanda says she had been trying unsuccessfully to reach Meredith all morning and was worried.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay, we'll get to the cell phones. We'll get to whether Amanda was calling Meredith that morning over and over and over. As she said in this clip,

we're

going to see what I find, frankly, some very disturbing behavior. And, you know, in the years since, a lot of people have speculated, you know, Amanda's probably on the spectrum. Here we go.

[Stacy Brown]

Investigators asked the couple to come back to the house the following day.

[Maureen Callahan]

We saw these two youngsters embraced, caressing each other, kissing, whispering into each other's ears, and the impression was of complicity.

[Stacy Brown]

The sight of these two was unsettling, says Italian investigator and 48 Hours consultant Paulo Friezo.

[Maureen Callahan]

One's expectation would be for them to be in shock, in tears. Instead, they seem to be sharing a little secret between the two of them.

That's a great observation, but what struck me is, you know, they're languidly making out at the crime scene. This is the house Amanda shared with Meredith, who was stabbed 47 times, whose body isn't even cold inside yet. And instead of being freaked out like Someone broke into the house. What if I had been there? Oh, my God, that would have been me too. Like, even just selfishly, she's there with her boyfriend of like a few weeks. It's not even like they have a deep relationship yet. And they're making out at the crime scene.

[60 Minutes Australia Narrator]

It.

[Maureen Callahan]

It seems like it feels like it's erotically charging her up. And him too. I mean, they both seem pretty fucking sick if you ask me. Spectrum, get the fuck out. Here's what Amanda has done since getting sprung from prison in Italy. Waiting to be heard. A memoir. 2013. Amanda Knox. The Netflix documentary 2016. Hard Knocks, her podcast. The YouTube channel has 1.8. It has less than 2,000 subscribers. See what I'm saying? Another memoir, Free My Search for Meaning, 2025. She's Eli Wiesel over here. The twisted tale of Amanda Knox, an eight episode Hulu miniseries executive produced by none other than Monica Lewinsky. Oh, this is not really in the culture because it hasn't really permeated, penetrated, however you want to say it. She has a fucking music video. Amanda Knox has a music video. She released it two months ago for a song she co wrote called How Strange It Is. The narcissism. It's Amanda laying on a floor and then sitting in a room and she's in a hall of jagged mirrors. Subtle. So we're looking at like 12Amanda's at once opening lyric. We're looking at the video right now. I never thought to look into the mirror until my life became a fun house. Listen, this woman. Look at this, look at this. She's in a white dress. You know, if anything, she should just have gratitude that she escaped that night with her life and that she's not rotting in a prison cell and in no. In no small part to her looks being something she could leverage as like, somebody that pretty could never do something like that again. I'm not saying she did it, but I think a decent person would want their life to be in service to Meredith and her memory. And my understanding is that Meredith's parents think Amanda had something to do with it. And my understanding is that Meredith's parents. Parents are sick of Amanda Knox and sick of seeing her face in the media and trying to springboard herself into major fame and celebrity off of the murder of their daughter. Here's Amanda and Monica Lewinsky again. Another one. You know, she. She. She loves being famous, but she's got nothing to say. Nautical Lewinsky has nothing to say except the culture did her dirty back in the 90s noted. We've all moved on. Move on these two. Monica has no problem using those blowjobs she gave Bill Clinton in the White House. Amanda Knox has no problem using the murder of a young girl in Italy to promote their own bullshit. Let's, let's ingest this story again. Let's reheat this warmed over state stale, expired dish of leftovers again. Because we haven't heard the story enough. We have heard it enough. It's enough. But of course, GMA welcomes these two losers, these two jokers. Here they are talking to Robin Roberts, all very chummy chum chum on August 18, 2025, promoting that Hulu series. And Amanda is going to talk yet again about how hard this was on her, about how hard it was for hundreds of people and millions of dollars to be spent on telling her story yet again so she could bask in the notoriety generated by the savage murder of a young woman. Here we go.

[Amanda Knox]

Here I was with hundreds of people working on this project and everyone cared so much about getting it right. And I was shocked by how much I was, like, grieving. Like, I was, I was allowed, it felt like I was allowed to grieve for the first time.

[Maureen Callahan]

Aw, she got to grieve, you guys. For the first time. Not in any of the other memoirs or documentaries or podcasts or music videos we're doing, but she's grieving for the first time. She's wearing pink on GMA and pink lipstick that does not at all look reflective of the person within who I think is quite dark and quite up. It's like, you know, when, like, like a murder suspect shows up for court. Like, you know, like when Sean Combs rolls into court with his Bible. You know, you're like, oh, sure, I buy that we're grieving, but we're doing stand up comedy now. We're grieving, but we're doing stand up. We'll get to it. From NBC News, published February 27, 2009. The headline which we're showing here, quote, Police colon, US student. That would be Amanda did cartwheel after slang. I read from the story, a young American woman charged with murder in Italy turned cartwheels and sat on her boyfriend's lap in the police station after the killing of her apartment mate. Italian investigators, plural, testified at the trial. This is a note, my note. Amanda denies this. She's always denied this. She says she was just doing some stress relieving yoga poses, as one does when arrested in a foreign country on suspicion of a savage homicide. Again, I don't think this is a spectrum thing. I don't. Continuing from the contemporaneous NBC News report, I quote on Friday, Privasio, I believe that's one of the investigators testified that records show Knox's and Solicito's cell phones. This Raphael Solicito, her then boyfriend, who she was making out with at the crime scene. Their cell phones were switched off at around 8:30pm on the night of the slaying, making their whereabouts untraceable. Police Police officer Marco Chachiera told the court that no record was found of a telephone call that Solicito claims to have received on his apartment landline phone at 11pm no record of that. Solicito maintains he was in his own apartment and doesn't remember if Knox spent part or all of the night in question with him. Continuing from this NBC News report, Knox initially told investigators she was in the house when Kercher was killed and that she covered her ears against the victim screams. Later she said she wasn't there. Kercher's family lawyer, Francesco Maresca, called the cell phone detail, and I quote, highly significant. The phones were always on and were switched off exactly that night from the evening to the next day, Mareska told the reporters. Explain that. By the way, the title of Amanda's comedy show for the Fringe Festival, she's calling it Cartwheel. Here she is, there's her kid hiding behind her kid. You know, she's a mom now, so you know, she's critic proof, or so she thinks. Not at the nerve, sister. Not at the nerve. Here she is introduced in Seattle by you'll never guess who. And no, it's not Lena Dunham, but good try. Here we go. That was Nikki. That was our favorite. Nikki Glaser, you know, that other paragon of mental, emotional and psychological health who just got done telling all of us over on Call her daddy that she loves it when her boyfriend fucks other women. Amanda, again, nothing is sacred. If you have to break a few eggs on the way to global fame, so be it. You know, it's never going to happen for Amanda. It would have happened by now, okay, if you were going to be globally famous, if you had an iota of talent or something to say and. Or were actually likable. I mean, I actually really do think part of Amanda's problem is she freaks most people out. She's a freak show. No decent person who truly had nothing to do with this would behave this way. Just my opinion. And by the way, I think someone who was guilty, who maybe had Something to do with this. I'm not saying she did. Would also slink away cli quietly just grateful for their freedom, grateful they got away with it. Again, I'm not saying she did it, but this woman, there is something so off and disturbing about her. I can only imagine what Meredith Kercher's family thinks of this. It's disgusting. It's disgusting. Here we go.

[Amanda Knox]

And yet, and yet people are wondering, guilty, innocent, innocent, guilty. I'm like the human version of the white, gold, blue, black dress. To this day, some people say she's innocent, but she sure acted guilty. Imagine if your whole personality was put on trial and the verdict was she didn't do it, but she made it weird. Congratulations, Amanda, you're not guilty. You're just deeply unsettling to the general public.

[Maureen Callahan]

I absolutely think she has hired some comedy writers to write her entire act. Because if Amanda knew how to tell a story, and all great comics, all great stand ups are great storytellers. Great storytellers. She would have told the authorities in Italy a story that made sense. She and her team always said, you know, it was the dumb Italian investigators who were just looking to nail an American ass to the wall. I don't think that's true. I really don't. Here's Amanda at an LA comedy club on September 4, 2025. Well, this was posted on September 4, but fairly recent. Here we go.

[Amanda Knox]

There is this really good Hulu series that's out now called the Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox Forewarning. It is intense. Like, you know, your 20s were rough.

[Maureen Callahan]

When people want to binge watch it, you know. You know, I've been executive producing this

[Amanda Knox]

thing for four years, which humble Brad, is the same amount of time that I spent in prison and it's the same amount of time that I've spent as a mom.

[Maureen Callahan]

I know. So her daughter is now the butt of her jokes. Her four year old, however old she is now five. Here's another joke involving her daughter. And again, you would think someone who had gone through that crucible if they were truly either A, innocent or B, a decent person. And again, I'm not saying Amanda Knox did anything. You would think having gone through that at such a tender age, your child would be off limits, that the general public wouldn't even know you had a child. Not Amanda. Let's go.

[Amanda Knox]

My daughter has been watching me work on this show and she's been learning about my past. And so now when we go to the playground, she'll say to me, let's play Mommy goes to Italy.

[Maureen Callahan]

Again. If she were a decent mother, my opinion, a child who was 4, 5, 6 years old should have absolutely no fucking idea about that part of your life yet. From that original episode of 48 Hours, we are now going to see stills and videos of the crime scene. I'm going to warn you, it's graphic because you're going to see Meredith's foot. They, they are going to show the, the way Meredith was found. Her body was, was covered with a comforter which many, many behavioralists will say a criminal, a murderer who then covers their victim up is showing some kind of remorse, some kind of way of trying to protect their own victim's dignity. But we're going to look at it because this is what Amanda is making fun of. Make no mistake, she's making fun of this. She's making fun of Meredith's murder. Amanda and the savagery that Meredith was subjected to before she died. Here we go.

[Stacy Brown]

Meredith's bedroom door is locked and the door is broken down. And inside is Meredith's lifeless body. 22 year old Meredith Kercher is found lying in a pool of blood. There were 47 separate wounds, not 47 knife wounds, but 47 bruises, scratches, cuts, injuries on Meredith's body. There was evidence definitely of the fact that she was trying to quite literally fight for her life.

[Maureen Callahan]

That does it. That does it for our Friday edition of the Nerve. Please come back tomorrow, won't you and see us for our Mini Nerve which drops on YouTube at 10am Eastern. And we think you guys are gonna love it. This cultural criminal prosecutor definitely works weekends. So the nerves courtroom is open. Come on in, grab your seat and we're gonna have a great time prosecuting this one. If you haven't already, go check out our substack atthe nerve show.com. be sure to subscribe. Plus nerve merch. Grab something for yourself or a fellow troublemaker atshopthe nerve.com. we will see you tomorrow for the Mini and then again next week right here at the Nerve where you will never guess what we're about to say next. When it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want. Like all the way. Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha chings from every channel

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