← The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Kate Middleton's Return, King Charles' Mistresses, & Inside Palace Secrets, w/ Chrisopher Andersen
01:01:14
Courage, Grace, and Power of the Woman Who Will Be Queen,” to discuss the intense public scrutiny surrounding Kate Middleton’s cancer battle, reports that the Princess of Wales was treated by medical surgeons connected to Pope Francis, the Palace’s controversial handling of her health crisis in the media, and accusations that they allowed wild rumors to spiral before finally confirming her diagnosis. They also dive into Andersen's bombshell reporting on King Charles' history with multiple mistresses and Queen Camilla's back-channel efforts to muddy Kate Middleton's reputation. Then Maureen conducts a full celebrity roundup, including Meghan Markle's scarce audience in Geneva, Blake Lively turning up at another NYC event, Brooke Shields' feelings about her daughter being cast on a reality TV show, John Travolta's bizarre fashion explanation, and how Keanu Reeves behaves in the wild. Christopher Andersen: https://www.simonandschuster.com/authors/Christopher-Andersen/ Superpower: S...
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- [00:00]
Commercial Announcer
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- [00:29]
Alzheimer's Association Representative
opportunity builder in the fight against Alzheimer's, now matters more than ever. Because now we have treatments, treatments that could change everything. But now is no time to stop. Now we've got momentum, so now we use it. Now we seize the moment. Now we turn the tide. Now we make a difference and make some noise. Now is the time to get up, get out and join the movement at the Alzheimer's association walk to end Alzheimer's held in over 600 communities nationwide. And we need you with us because now is the time for hope. Join the fight@alz.org walk.
- [01:03]
Maureen Callahan
Hello and welcome to your Tuesday edition of the Nerve. I am your host, Maureen Callahan. What a show we've got for you today. One of the star biographers around, Christopher Anderson has a new book out about one of the most inscrutable, mysterious public figures of the modern age. Catherine, Princess of Wales, Kate Middleton. He's got a lot of tea to spill with us. You guys are going to love it. And then we've got a full on celebrity roundup. We are lassoing these miscreants and putting them back into the woodshed. I think, listen, Teddy in trouble. They've been working really hard. I've got them guarding the woodshed but you know, sometimes they get distracted. A bunny rabbit hops by and they just become mesmerized. You know, I just, I do cut them some slack. We know that we're going to to get them back where they belong. Okay, so we've got Blake Lively out and about on the town, like everything's totally cool. Meghan Markle giving a speech to like five people in Geneva. And something else at the mainstream media was won't touch because they feel like it's a third effing rail. But guess what, that's what the Nerve is for. We're the third rail. A lot of other celebrity shenanigans. And then we're going to close though with like one of the good ones. And I mean this wholeheartedly, like one of the best, like most decent celebrities out there. Are you ready Are you ready? Let's go. Have you ever left a doctor's appointment feeling like you got no real answers or useful insight into your own health? You get told everything looks normal and then you leave with 0 useful information or an actual plan. Introducing Superpower. Their app breaks down insights around metabolism, hormones, heart health, vitamins, toxins, even your biological age, plus actual actionable. Excuse me, recommendations that you can use. They also make it incredibly easy. A licensed professional can come to your home or you can visit a nearby lab and you get comprehensive lab testing with 100 plus biomarkers. It feels way more proactive instead of reactive. Make this the year that you stop guessing about your health. With Superpower for a limited time, our listeners will get $20 off to unlock your new health intelligence. Head over to superpower.com use code nerve for $20 off your membership. That's Code Nerve. And after you sign up, they're going to say, hey, how did you hear about Superpower? Please support our show. Tell them you're a troublemaker and the Nerve sent you. Joining us now is royal biographer and author of the new book, Kate the Courage, Grace and Power of the Woman who Will Be Queen, Christopher Anderson. Christopher, welcome to the Nerve.
- [04:26]
Christopher Anderson
Thank you, Maureen. Great to be here. Thanks for having me.
- [04:30]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, we're thrilled to have you. I'm a fan. I've read many of your books, including the Day that John Died, which I thought was really added a lot to our understanding of just who that guy was. And now you've tackled one of the most inscrutable public figures of our time, Catherine, Princess of Wales. You broke some news in this book, which is incredible. When Catherine had her abdominal surgery. Now, please let us know if this was the initial surgery that discovered the cancer or whether this was after the cancer was discovered. Her surgeon was the same surgeon who operated on Pope Francis, is that right?
- [05:15]
Christopher Anderson
Exactly. As a matter of fact, as a team of surgeons were flown in secretly for that first. You're absolutely right. The first abdominal surgery which she thought she was getting for a benign condition. And you know, Pope Francis had his. The same surgeons who'd operated on him for abdominal problems that he had were flown secretly in and operated on her at the London Clinic, which is a very famous hospital in the middle of London.
- [05:39]
Maureen Callahan
So you say she thought she was getting treatment for a benign issue, which seems to indicate they discovered a mass and they thought it was benign.
- [05:49]
Christopher Anderson
Right. And, you know, it's interesting that the palace is very cagey about all this. First of all, of course, we still don't know what. What cancer it was, nor do we know what the king's cancer is. But they kept saying that she had. There was a preventative chemo that she was having for cancer. Well, no, she has. Was diagnosed with cancer. You know, once. Once the cancer cells are there, you know that that was what it was for. So the chemo that she had was just grueling, like it is for everyone usually. And she underwent it in this kind of cloak and dagger way that I describe in the book, where she's being driven, you know, in the back of her assistant's car, hunkered down, goes in a side entrance of the Royal Marsden Hospital for two months. Nobody knows she's getting cancer treatment because she wanted to wait to tell the kids during spring break. Her children break it to them at home. So then there was this firestorm of conspiracy theories. It was right.
- [06:46]
Maureen Callahan
Before we get to that, Christopher, I want to go back to the very beginning of this story, which I just find fascinating because this was a rare mistake. Up by the palace in every way, the handling of Kate's illness. A team of surgeons, you say, were flown in to operate on the Princess of Wales. From how many countries, how many surgeons were there?
- [07:05]
Christopher Anderson
This was from the Vatican. These were the surgeons who were.
- [07:08]
Maureen Callahan
Are these private surgeons at the Vatican?
- [07:12]
Christopher Anderson
No, they're attached to Gemelli. They're technically with the Gemelli Clinic, which is a famous cancer clinic in Rome, but they are assigned specifically to the Pope.
- [07:23]
Maureen Callahan
Do we know how many surgeons were in the operating theater when Catherine had her surgery? 3. And how long that surgery took?
- [07:30]
Christopher Anderson
That I don't know. But apparently it couldn't have been that long because it was thought to have. When she emerged, everyone thought initially that she looked pretty good. It wasn't until lab tests came back that showed the presence of cancer.
- [07:48]
Maureen Callahan
Why Christopher? Did the palace. So the palace has denied your reporting. They're pushing back. They're saying that's not true. Catherine was not operated on by the Pope's surgeon. I know what it's like to write a book and to have your reporting vetted and legaled, especially. Especially with a high profile person such as this. I believe you. We should all believe you. Why would the palace lie about this?
- [08:15]
Christopher Anderson
Well, the palace, you know, their. Their default position is to. To deflect. And if they say anything at all, usually they're silent about everything. But in this particular case, I don't know. I really don't know what the reason would be because it's the. The surgeons have spoken about. About this you know, so, yeah, I don't know why they would. As a matter of fact, I was not aware that they were denying it, to be honest with you. I had nerded.
- [08:42]
Maureen Callahan
Oh. Oh, we've heard that. I've heard that over at the Daily Mail. Why do you think? Also, again, another misstep. The palace was directly asked after Kate's abdominal surgery and it was announced she would be retreating from public life. The rumors were rife. I mean, it was everything from she does have cancer to this is one I heard. She's going into a mental hospital. She's having a breakdown.
- [09:07]
Christopher Anderson
Oh, absolutely.
- [09:07]
Maureen Callahan
She's leaving William, William's leaving her. All of these rumors flying around. Why didn't the palace just say, the Princess of Wales has been diagnosed with cancer, she is undergoing treatment, we'll update you as needed.
- [09:20]
Christopher Anderson
Well, on top of that, totally agree with you. On top of that, I think it's a mistake for the King not to have come clean about what kind of. He has. I mean, and to make the announcement since he was getting a procedure for prostate problems initially. Again, he thought it was a benign problem in the beginning. Why not? Why would the palace just issue a statement saying it's not prostate cancer? Because that then fueled this incredible speculation.
- [09:49]
Maureen Callahan
It's prostate cancer. There's precedent. You lied before about Catherine's cancer. I mean, this is the thing, Christopher. It goes to the inherent credibility of the institution. You're not just addressing an ambient rumor. She's saying sick. You're addressing a very specific, pointed question. Does the Princess of Wales have cancer? She does not have cancer. Two months later, we lied. She's got cancer.
- [10:12]
Christopher Anderson
Right, Right. But this happens all the time. It's this, it's the. It's the way they do business. And I've never understood, you know, I think that they. You know, they always say that Catherine has never put a foot wrong, but the palace constantly doesn't, you know? So, yeah, don't know why it was the.
- [10:30]
Maureen Callahan
I'm sorry, but remember that the other precipitating event was that badly Photoshopped. Was it a Mother's Day photo? And it looked like Catherine had, like, two arms? And then they made. They made my supposition Catherine, take the fall for it because she's the family photographer when William should have been the one to step in front of her and take that bullet because they were trying to conceal she was sick.
- [10:53]
Christopher Anderson
Right, right. Well, at that point, yeah, she was. No, that was after she had made that famous March 22 video. So we all knew yeah, so that happened afterwards. It was to reassure people that she had gone through, Was going through chemo and was fine. But, yes, she did. You know, I mean, I never understood the uproar. She was tweaking the photograph. So what, you know. But it became a thing. Yes, it did become a thing. Didn't alter. It didn't alter the reality of the fact that she was there with her children, posing in a very sweet picture, you know, to reassure, assure people. I think the thing about her is, you know, she's caught up and it's. You have to give her credit for being, as we use the word, cunning and shrewd, but she has those qualities or she wouldn't be where she is today. She has the ability to. To kind of navigate those treacherous waters of the monarchy. And believe me, that they're throwing obstacles in her path all the time that she has to deal with.
- [11:48]
Maureen Callahan
Now, it's reported as well, that Camilla did not think Kate Middleton was good enough for the future King of England.
- [11:55]
Christopher Anderson
Well, now you have to look at this in context, and I don't know why people don't remember who Camilla was. You know, they don't seem. There seems to be a disconnect there. Camilla and Lady Tryon, another of Charles's mistresses, picked out Diana as a suitable wife and the mother of a future king. But they had no intention of ever, you know, severing their relationship with Charles. And obviously, Camilla always felt, and from childhood, that her place in the firmament was as a mistress. Her, you know, her great grandmother, Alice Keppel, was famously Edward VII's mistress. She was very proud of that. And she never wanted to be queen, but she had ties, you know, to aristocracy. Her grandfather was a baron. She moved in royal circles. Kate is working. I mean, really basically, you know, a descendant of coal miners, mom was a flight attendant who grew up in public housing. She's not just common, she's working class. And Camilla is very conscious of who would be a suitable mate for. You know, when I say mate, I should say spouse, because that's what we're talking about. And mother of a future monarch. And she didn't feel that Kate made the grade. And so for a long time, she was throwing, you know, obstacles in Kate's way. And for those 10 years, you know, we remember the weighty Katie period when. When the knives were out for her from every angle, but somehow she managed to survive. And I think it's because of the relationship she had with William. I mean, we can be cynical about these things, but I do think there's a tremendous bond between them and that's something that Diana never had. If you're going to make comparisons, the obvious comparisons with Diana, between Kate and Diana, they're compassionate, they make. They connect. They're kind of rebels in the sense that they're not of, you know, they're not going to buy the old way of doing things that monarchy pursues. But Kate and Diana never had a solid family background like Kate does. Kate's parents are still very much married and together. She never had a husband who loved her. But, you know, Kate has a husband who loves and supports her. And even though sometimes it's heavy lifting for her because he's a very introspective at times, moody individual, you know, they are a team.
- [14:15]
Maureen Callahan
There is another comparison to Diana. Unlike in Diana's time, this was openly discussed in the media and she eventually admitted it. It's never discussed with Kate, but Kate often, as long as she's been on the scene, but as her role has intensified, she seems worryingly thin.
- [14:37]
Christopher Anderson
Ah, yes, well, it's true. And everyone talks about it. As a matter of fact, when she made. Unfortunately, she then had to undergo chemotherapy in 2024 and when she made that famous video and believe me, you know, one take and she wrote the script, she's very great communicator when. When people give her the chance. But she was clever enough to wear a striped sweater to kind of disguise the fact that she lost an additional 15 pounds during chemo.
- [15:02]
Maureen Callahan
That horizontal striped sweater, which is a trick of the eye.
- [15:06]
Christopher Anderson
It is, yeah. Yeah. And so she's, you know, she knows how. She's media savvy in some. In the. In not exactly in the same way that Diana was, because, you know, Diana was such a rebel. And I. I'm all Team Diana, I have to tell you, because she was up against so much and she really injected this new life into the monarchy. But we wouldn't see it would. There would not be the possibility of a Kate if it weren't for Diana. And, you know, I just think that now we're seeing a woman like, who's kind of Diana 2.0. She has all the help she needs in terms of emotional support from William, I think. And they're moving forward. And George, I think, is going to take the monarchy into the 22nd century.
- [15:48]
Maureen Callahan
I think we all think George is definitely modernizing this monarchy. I do. I wanted to go back a minute, though, because you mentioned again, something that is conveniently been rewritten to make Charles and Camilla one of the grandest love stories of our time. Charles had many mistresses. It wasn't just Camilla. And you know, I always. I adhere to that old saw. When you marry your mistress, you create a job opening. So what do we know about. You know, we know that Charles and Camilla, they do seem very well suited to each other. She seems a great support to him. But we do know they also. They have their own residences.
- [16:28]
Christopher Anderson
Yes, but, you know, I know that's common, but.
- [16:31]
Maureen Callahan
Yes, yeah, it's common.
- [16:32]
Christopher Anderson
And they're very together. I mean, there's no question that they're, you know, they, they. They're the love match. Even Diana had to admit that. I mean, you. Look, I interviewed other mistresses of Charles's. I mean, he was quite active. One of them is the Canadian woman who remembered how Camilla would draw her in, invite her to the. To. To Sandringham and whatnot for. And even to the. The wedding of Diana and Charles. I mean, Camilla is, you know, she ended up, you could see during the coronation, I wondered how she would react to that. And she was shaking like a leaf. And for good reason. She never thought she would end up in this position. Nor do I think there's a big imposter syndrome thing going on with her because she realizes she blew it all up by insisting on having that relationship.
- [17:18]
Maureen Callahan
Fascinating, that is. Be careful. Like, she didn't even want it. She didn't even want it. I just love the idea, Christopher, that there was this little VIP section at the wedding of Charles and Diana that was composed of Charles's mistresses.
- [17:33]
Christopher Anderson
Yes, exactly. I know. And you know, when he was a young man, I described that in earlier books of mine, he was quite, quite an active fellow, let's just put it that way. Camilla broke up with him to marry somebody else too. So it's all very, it's all very British.
- [17:50]
Maureen Callahan
It's. You also mentioned that Camilla was throwing all of these obstacles in Kate's way. Do you know any specific examples of ways in which she tried to thwart Kate or discourage her from this romance?
- [18:02]
Christopher Anderson
Well, she has allies. You know, there's, it's, there's again, team Camilla. One thing people don't realize is the fact that this is all. The whole royal setup basically is competition among the various royal houses. And when you think about it, it's all about money because they're trying to get the dollars for their various causes and philosop. Philanthropies. So. So Charles does not want to be upstate. He hated being upstaged by Diana and he doesn't want to even be upstaged by his son, you know, William. So there is that kind of competition. So in Team Camilla, her friends were floating in the press kind of accusations that Kate wasn't working hard enough, that Kate was sitting at home and here's, here's Princess Anne doing 400 engagements a year, Charles doing 500 engagements a year, and Kate's only doing, you know, 42 engagements. Well, the reason is Kate made it clear from the get go she wanted to have it, wanted to raise her kids. She, her focus was going to be on the children and that was part of the deal, you know, and she was going to have a more normal life. Don't forget, nobody else in this whole scenario has had anything approaching a normal family background like, like Kate is. She's actually bringing in this experience. And I think William treasures that because, you know, William would just, every chance he got would get up and go and spend time with the Middletons. And that's so true. Yeah, he wanted to have that kind of environment. It's a very artificial world they live in and she's bringing some reality to it. And, and by the way, the book is, you know, I don't want to say that it's. I hate saying that a book is a tribute to somebody, but I'm a Wartson all biographer. If you've read my books, you know, I've written some pretty scathing things about politicians and whatnot. But, you know, if she has any serious character flaws, I cannot find them. You know, I felt the same way about JFK Jr. I thought that he was really just a, in the end, a great guy, you know, and, and I feel the same way about her. I really super human being
- [20:05]
Maureen Callahan
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- [21:41]
Commercial Announcer
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- [22:10]
Alzheimer's Association Representative
opportunity builder in the fight against Alzheimer's now matters more than ever. Because now we have treatments, treatments that could change everything. But now is no time to stop. Now we've got momentum, so now we use it. Now we seize the moment. Now we turn the tide. Now we make a difference and make some noise. Now is the time to get up, get out and join the movement at the Alzheimer's Association Walk to end Alzheimer's held in over 600 communities nationwide. And we need you with us because now is the time for hope. Join the fight@alz.org walk.
- [22:42]
Maureen Callahan
Christopher, what were you able to learn about the time period between William breaking up with Kate and they had been, you know, the world sort of understood that they were probably on a marriage track and they had been together since college. They've been together for years. She sort of took a nominal job that allowed her to drop everything when William called and said, come join me this week, she would just drop and go. And he dumped her. And then there was this gap between their getting back together and the reporting at the time was that Carol Middleton, Kate's mother, who had kind of bred her for this, she wanted her daughter to marry the future king. Why not gave her a tutorial, why not gave her a tutorial on how to get William back. And it was, go out on the town, be photographed having a great time. Go pick up your life resume, show him you are doing better than ever. And it seemed to have worked, right,
- [23:39]
Christopher Anderson
with Pippa, no less. Her sister. Yeah, no, I was in London when That was announced and it's funny because I had a book that we had just closed, it was going to press and it was about the rela. Part of it was about the relationship between this young woman and him. And of course they'd been together for at that point fought six years, five years. And you know, we, of course we thought any moment now they'd announce their engagement. Well, he calls her in a, you know, it breaks up over, over the phone. Brutal. Brutal. I mean, right. Brutal. And, and within. And boy, who was responsible for that? Camilla and Charles because they both basically pressured William into either asking her or just cut her loose because it's not fair to keep her hanging.
- [24:23]
Maureen Callahan
Wait, exactly what Philip did to Charles regarding diana. Exactly like three dates. And philip says to him regarding this 19 year old virgin he barely knows whose sister he dated, you better shit or get off the pot in some substance. You better, you better make her an honest woman. And he, he forever blamed Philip for that catastrophe. And he turns around and does it to his eldest, the future king.
- [24:50]
Christopher Anderson
History repeats itself. You know, people do this kind of thing all the time. Yeah, no. And so she was, believe me, in London at the. It was just mind blowing. We had to get. No, stop the presses and stick in something. But I said even in that update that they're going to get back together. I didn't think they would get back together within six weeks, which is what they did. And he came crawling back when he, William did to Kate when he realized what he was missing and she was doing dramatic things. There's some pictures in the book of her with the all female crew of the boat training with them, Tiller. And then of course out on the town with other guys. Dated a whole bunch of William's friends when she was broken up with him. But again within six weeks he was back. And I think she's played it all so well, you know, and it takes some, some degree of real grit to, to pull that off. And she's done a great job. And of course the cancer situation, her cancer journey, if you will, has shown that she really, you know, is a person of substance. I think the way she personally has handled it. Yes, the palace has made a lot of missteps. They put in a lot of aw. Awkward positions. But still she comes out, you know, at the other end looking like she's going to be the savior of the monarchy.
- [26:04]
Maureen Callahan
You know, I really felt for her when she had to make that announcement about her illness. I felt if the palace had handled that better, she probably could have had her privacy. You can understand, I think, why both Catherine and Charles choose to keep their particular cancers private. They have very little that is private to them, much as the queen, her cherished family nickname, Lilibet, she said it was the only thing that was completely mine.
- [26:32]
Christopher Anderson
Right. And, you know, it's interesting, the palace's attitude, because we have to remember that they're so concerned and obsessed with keeping these things quiet that even George vi, when he was dying of lung cancer, was not told that he had lung cancer.
- [26:52]
Maureen Callahan
What?
- [26:53]
Christopher Anderson
Oh, yeah, that was the practice. Don't tell the patient that. You know, basic. This horrible thing. So he never knew that he had lung cancer until the very end. But, yeah, that is such a strange.
- [27:06]
Maureen Callahan
He died. Yeah. But that. That is. That there's a cruelty to that. And it goes to show how truly insular their world is that they. They create their reality. And the reality, oh, the king has cancer. Don't tell the king he has cancer. Then the king doesn't have cancer.
- [27:23]
Christopher Anderson
Right, Exactly. It is a fan. It's a. Unfortunately, it's a fantasy life that sometimes takes that kind of bizarre turn. Openness does not come naturally to the people who are the handlers of the royals. Never has. And the people who gravitate toward those jobs, I think, are so interested in protecting them. And that's why you get these denials that these lies, you know, that they reverse themselves with impunity. It happens all the time. And by the way, I'm convinced that. I mean, I know from my sources that William is going to be coming to the United States, probably bringing the entire family. But they. Of course, just like they did the last two visits, they wait until. The palace likes to wait until the very last minute to spring it on the public. That's another thing I don't quite understand, but that's what they did. But the Italian visit of Kate recently, no one knew about that until the day before she left.
- [28:15]
Maureen Callahan
And it was a huge success, enormous success.
- [28:18]
Christopher Anderson
Why not trumpet it? Why not plan it? Why not let people know about it?
- [28:21]
Maureen Callahan
Do you think it's to avoid House Sussex getting too quick of a jump on their plans to launch a counter offensive?
- [28:29]
Christopher Anderson
Oh, I don't know. Well, that could be. Now, this is where they're getting. It's getting very complicated, isn't it? By the way, there's a lot in the book about how Kate has done everything she could possibly do to mend the fences there, you know, to try and build the bridges between the two brothers. But this last statement around the time of the. The diagnosis of the king that Harry made in which he said we just don't know how long my father has. Was seemed so insensitive to her like it did to many most other people, implying that he was in dire straits at the time, that she just. That's enough. And of course, what did he think she would. How would she be taking it? She was facing the same situation. And have somebody make a statement like that just seemed incredibly insensitive. And also it provoked tremendous speculation at that point about whether the king was in fact dying.
- [29:19]
Maureen Callahan
Yes.
- [29:20]
Christopher Anderson
You know, as I understand it, he's. He's really. When he came to the States, everyone who was in contact with him, all the people that I talked to said he was very surprisingly robust was the word and connected and up. And if anything he looks quite healthy these days. So fingers crossed.
- [29:38]
Maureen Callahan
What do you know, Christopher, about William and Catherine's planned visit to the United States? Is it going to be timed to Independence Day? She's a constant presence by the way. She's always awarding at the French Open so I assume she'll be there at least awarding men's. The men's champion. When. Do you have any sense of the timing and or purpose of the visitors?
- [30:02]
Christopher Anderson
Oh, yes, soccer. The World Cup. The world match against the England's match against Panama is a big deal and it's happening in Rutherford, New Jersey on June 29. And the plans, which I don't know when they plan. The Pensington palace is saying, oh, there are no, there are no public plans right now. Well, of course they're, you know, there
- [30:21]
Maureen Callahan
are no public plans. They're private plans. Then they'll be public when you announce them. We know that's right.
- [30:27]
Christopher Anderson
My guess is they will make the formal announcement after trooping the color. She will probably. Which is June 13th. She will appear and you know, this was a dry run. This was a trial run. The Italian trip and she did brilliantly. And the King's trip to the U.S. wonderful. To go to cheer the England's. England's team at the World cup is almost essential for Prince William because he's the president of the football Association. George is this tremendous. They're all soccer fans but George is a fanatic about soccer. So as I understand it, they will be coming at the end of June. And because the once it's a little complicated but the protocol is that once an heir to the throne turns 12, he can no longer fly with another direct heir to the throne. So if he brings the family. If William brings the family which Is the plan. Kate's gonna have to go because George is going to have to fly separately from William. They're not permitted to fly together because of the line of succession. Is it. It's a kind of, you know. Yes, the survivor thing, you know.
- [31:31]
Maureen Callahan
Yes, designated survivor.
- [31:34]
Christopher Anderson
And thank you. I can think the phrase but. And I always think, you know, if anything were to happen, we have to remember that Harry is still right behind the family in the line of succession. He's fifth in line still. So you want to protect everyone, keep everybody safe.
- [31:48]
Maureen Callahan
And so we certainly want everything going as a pace as we planned. But what do you understand Christopher as well about Catherine's attitude regarding Andrew and Fergie? Oh, you know, these what I really do consider existential threats to the future of the monarchy. They've been sidelined for now, but the sewage seeps out regardless.
- [32:16]
Christopher Anderson
Right, right. And she was the first, we have to say. Okay, as was the first royal to turn her back on Andrew.
- [32:22]
Maureen Callahan
Was she?
- [32:23]
Christopher Anderson
Yes. She and William were both, you know, lobbying to have him from the very beginning sidelined. Ultimately stripped of his title as he was. She would not speak to him at a certain point, even during, you know, family gatherings. She didn't want him around her family. She wouldn't let him attend the Christmas. You know, she does this great thing every year, started during COVID called Together for Christmas. Together at Christmas, sorry. And it's at Westminster Abbey, it's a concert. We've seen her play the piano there once. But it's a big deal in England. And he wanted to attend as he had in the past. And she said no. And he asked if he could go sneak in a side door basically and just be there discreetly. And she said no because she didn't want him caught on camera at her event. So she's always been away. See, she's trying to protect the monarchy. She's not only the going to be the wife of a future monarch, she's going to be the mother of a future monarch. And, and I think a lot of people don't realize that this is a question of patriotism, of loyalty. Here's a commoner, a person who never thought she'd be in this position from a family that was a million miles light years away from the monarchy. They come into it and they have a responsibility not only to this thousand year institution and, but to history and to their country to keep this going because they think it's one of the pillars in British society. And it is, you know, I think it's, it's Fascinating. One of the little tidbit in the book that I thought was very telling is that you remember we were talking about the Kate Gate situation where she was, you know, all the. She's having her cancer therapy and there were all these rumors flying everywhere. You know, you mentioned that there were
- [33:57]
Maureen Callahan
even rumors, Christopher, that she was getting treatment in the United States secretly.
- [34:01]
Christopher Anderson
Right. And of course, the Rose Hanbury rumors, you know, there was never was an affair with Rose Hanbury, but that was.
- [34:07]
Maureen Callahan
Are you sure of that? Because that was. So that that story had such traction. It was really stubborn.
- [34:14]
Christopher Anderson
It is. And I. And I dug into that as much as humanly possible, and I don't. There was no evidence of it at all, but it would, you know, once again, that that period was. It was. It was grim. But the Russians saw it and, and the. What was happening and you know, to undermine Western, you know, institutions, respected, solid institutions that support Western society. They got in on it. And there was. British intelligence discovered there was a Russian disinformation program called Doppelganger, which was intended to spin more rumors, kind of turbocharged them with AI, which they did, and to make the situation even more chaotic and weird. And it got to the point where people were thinking, imagine that she was suddenly going to reveal herself on the Masked Singer.
- [35:02]
Maureen Callahan
You know, that's right. I forgot that rumor that screams Russian bot farm. Screams. Yeah, that's. That's their familiarity with Western pop culture and how we engage with the. With the British royal family.
- [35:16]
Christopher Anderson
Right, exactly. Also that she was dating Pete Davidson. That was another one of my favorites.
- [35:20]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, God. What is sacrilege. I think Kate suffered enough.
- [35:25]
Christopher Anderson
I know.
- [35:27]
Maureen Callahan
To your point, though, I just, you know, talking about the. The prejudice Camilla had toward Kate as a commoner, your comment right there, that the family, you know, granddaughter of a coal miner mother who grew up in public housing, you know, for all we hear about royalty, royal blood, aristocracy, you look at a gutter pig like Andrew and his wife, Sarah Ferguson, you look at what actual royals are capable of, and in comes this quote, unquote commoner, who to my mind, has comported herself as the most royal of the entire family.
- [36:07]
Christopher Anderson
No question. I mean, she's absolutely. And by the way, her impact on this is something we have to touch on, on fashion and style and the way people, you know, women want to look around the world. You know, we had the Met gala in New York recently, and you could take all of those celebrities and put them together and. And they would not have the impact that she has when she you know, rents a dress for 100 bucks off the Internet, which she does occasionally and goes to a ball and blows everybody away. She's just got this innate class, you know, and. And yeah, she can also wear a $30 million tiara and carry it off to all the soft power. I mean, there is no practitioner of soft power that greater than Kate. I mean, world leaders fall all over
- [36:50]
Maureen Callahan
themselves to stars, top athletes. They f. She has that it factor. She had, she has that. She has the Diana quality, truly, which is she's an aspirational figure who is also comes across as incredibly down to earth. Whether she is or not, that's how she comes across.
- [37:08]
Christopher Anderson
She does a good job. I think she. I think she's genuine because she does the one thing that Diana did and that is visit people, connect with people who are, you know, cancer patients and you don't know about it. There are a lot of engagements, a lot of things that she does that are not really. She's able to do that as well. And that was something Diana did a lot of. And it shows a real, I think, compassion and ability to touch people. And, you know, by the way, you mentioned her name, I take a little flack from people who say, oh, she's Catherine. You know, the Brits do this, but, you know, she's got the one. She's a one name legend. She's an icon. If you say Kate, everyone knows who you're talking about.
- [37:51]
Maureen Callahan
There are two great Kates that came out that Britain has exported to us in the modern age. Kate Middleton and Kate Moss. I've. I love, you know.
- [38:00]
Christopher Anderson
Well, I've got, you know, and then there's a great American. A friend of mine was Kate Hepburn and she's. I, you know, actually got to know her very well and I've got a picture of her right over my shoulder.
- [38:10]
Maureen Callahan
Wow, that's incredible.
- [38:12]
Christopher Anderson
Yeah.
- [38:12]
Maureen Callahan
Her Turtle Bay apartment just hit the market here in New York City.
- [38:17]
Christopher Anderson
Yes, I interviewed her there many times. Yeah, but she was a character. She was wonderful. But then I digress. But I think that when you say the King, we all know which king you're talking about. And I think it's the same thing with Kate. There's no question that she's singular in that whole world of celebrities and iconic people.
- [38:39]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah, it's a strong name. And just to your other remark there, the reporting that we have at the nerve through our friend Rob Shooter was that Anna Wintour had been dying for Kate Middleton to attend the Met Gala.
- [38:51]
Christopher Anderson
Yes.
- [38:52]
Maureen Callahan
And it's always a hard no, it's a hard no. Meanwhile, her sister in law, this grubby McGruberson over in Montecito, was on her hands and knees, practically begging for a Met gala invite. And that was a no. You know, it's just hilarious.
- [39:08]
Christopher Anderson
Well, you do wonder. I mean, you know, as much as we would love to have thought Megan could have, you know, she had a spot there at the table. And to give up a chance to be part of history, just to say, you know, just play along for a while, to give that up to become just another influencer, I think is sad, really. And, you know, she's not, you know, we know how unpopular she is in the UK over here, but especially in the uk.
- [39:35]
Maureen Callahan
Well, we just saw her in Geneva give a speech to an outdoor crowd of about 10 loiterers.
- [39:41]
Christopher Anderson
Yes, right. Yeah. The one about. What was this about? This was about.
- [39:46]
Maureen Callahan
This one was about the dangers of social media to children after posting our child on social media 24 hours prior. But also, it seemed to me, again, everything always, they seem very reactive. This was right after Kate's triumphant visit to Italy where she. We see her always with small children. Early childhood education is one of her top, top initiatives. And I can't imagine the frustration that William and Catherine deal with with these two and their antics constantly. I understand the gray rock method and it is working, but it seems that there is nothing that William or Catherine do that those two don't try to, you know, one up them in some way.
- [40:34]
Christopher Anderson
It's true. It's true. But she's, you know, we'll see what happens. I don't want to speculate about what will happen in that marriage, but we'll see. I will.
- [40:45]
Maureen Callahan
It's not gonna last. It's not gonna last. Harry wants back in. The rule is you can come back maybe while Charles is still with us, if Meghan is not part of it. What do you hear about Harry and Meghan? You know, Harry's coming back for his Invictus Games push for 2027. He's coming back this summer. He says he wants Megan to come with him. Do you think she will?
- [41:09]
Christopher Anderson
No, no, I think that. I think that. No. And I do think that, you know, the ship has sailed. I don't think that there's going to be any, you know, peacemaking going on in the near future. I think they got too much on their plate. You know, they still. There's too much, too much going on. And they've tried and tried and it's not working. And that one, you know, I think the most telling moment was when Kate, during Philip's funeral, when Kate literally physically tried to push the brothers together. You know, then that ended up.
- [41:38]
Maureen Callahan
Yes. Yeah, she took that step back.
- [41:41]
Christopher Anderson
Yes.
- [41:42]
Maureen Callahan
That's so classy.
- [41:44]
Christopher Anderson
Very.
- [41:45]
Maureen Callahan
So classy.
- [41:48]
Christopher Anderson
Yeah.
- [41:49]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah. It didn't work. Christopher, our last question is what does Kate see for the future of the monarchy and what does. What kind of experience and or king does she hope her child is? Does she hope that George will be well?
- [42:06]
Christopher Anderson
I think she hopes. Well, first of all, she has to get William through the. Yeah, you know, but I have a feeling that. Well, I mean, she want. They want. They always talk about modernizing the monarchy and Charles wants to slim it down. He wants to knock people off the payroll. It's a lot of. Has a lot to do with money and making everything more acceptable to. To Parliament, frankly, to keep them afloat. Char. I think William has a longer range view. He says, you know, recently it said that change is definitely on the menu, you know, but I think, I think what she wants to do is, as you pointed out, concrete contributions of the sort that Diana would have made had she lived. You're talking about early childhood education. If she could have a real impact on that. Just think of it, because in Great Britain they have a lot of problems with early childhood education. They have a lot of problems in their educational system.
- [42:57]
Maureen Callahan
System.
- [42:58]
Christopher Anderson
Certainly the royals have huge problems in the way they educate their born into that world. But if she just made that kind of a contribution, I think she'd be satisfied. And I think she wants her son to do the same thing. And she'll want Charlotte and Louis to play a part in that as well. Although Louis is so funny. There's this photograph in the book that I just think is so telling about Diane, about Kate as a mother when they're on the balcony and he won't behave and she's just giving him those. The killer eyes, you know, I don't know if you've seen that. She's a real hand. You know, they always say hands on mom, but she is, she is that and she can bring that to the institution. I think that would be a fabulous contribution because no one else has done it except for Diana.
- [43:47]
Maureen Callahan
No one else has done it. She's. Yes, but Kate is a. She's. She's shrewder. I think she's much more emotionally and psychologically stable. And she for sure is the British royal family's ultimate weapon. She is just their strongest player, bar none.
- [44:06]
Christopher Anderson
Yes, absolutely. And I hope that they, you know, I think they realize that now, especially the bond between Kate and Charles is cemented over this cancer situation. I mean, imagine having them be diagnosed in the same hospital down the hall from each other at the same time with cancer.
- [44:27]
Maureen Callahan
Incredible.
- [44:28]
Christopher Anderson
Just incredible. Yeah. And of course, for him to wait 70 years, over 70 years, it just seems, you know, almost ridiculous and, and kind of unspeakably cruel to think that his, you know, reign, which would have been short under any circumstances, could have been cut incredibly short. However, they say he's living with cancer. He is not in remission. Like she is in remission. She's been in remission for 15 months. And that's wonderful. Yeah. But he has to live with this still. But once again, seems to be working. And he's 77 and I think we'll. Yes, yes, 77. And I think he, you know, will have a decently long reign.
- [45:12]
Maureen Callahan
Yes. And our understanding is also that William and Catherine are in no rush to take that job.
- [45:18]
Christopher Anderson
No, no.
- [45:19]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah, right.
- [45:20]
Christopher Anderson
Although they're certainly preparing for it.
- [45:22]
Maureen Callahan
They're certainly preparing for it.
- [45:24]
Christopher Anderson
Christopher, by the way, one quick thing. A trip this summer to this country will be. Would be a spectacular opportunity for them to, you know, I can see it being a great public relations victory for the palace. So I hope they don't drag their feet on that one.
- [45:41]
Maureen Callahan
There's no question New York, New Jersey, the tri state would welcome them with open arms and roll out the red carpet. I mean, I would love to see, I would love to see even what New York. You know, we've got a, a socialist mayor who doesn't really acknowledge such things as royalty. But I, I bet even he would be charmed by Kate's star power. I really do.
- [46:04]
Christopher Anderson
Oh, oh, no question. Forget it. I know. I mean, presidency of China was charmed by her. So, you know. Yes. I don't think that, you know, his, his leftist leanings will make any difference. They'll go out the window.
- [46:17]
Maureen Callahan
They'll go out the window. Thank you, Christopher, so much for joining us on the nerve for this fascinating discussion about one of the most mysterious, compelling figures of our time.
- [46:29]
Christopher Anderson
She is that. And it was a great luck with the book. I enjoyed it. You're terrific.
- [46:34]
Maureen Callahan
So are you. Great to see you. All the best.
- [46:38]
Christopher Anderson
We'll do it again.
- [46:38]
Maureen Callahan
Absolutely.
- [46:40]
Christopher Anderson
Take care. Bye. Bye.
- [46:41]
Maureen Callahan
Thanks to Christopher Anderson for joining us for a fascinating discussion about Kate Middleton. His book sounds like an incredible beach read. So treat yourself. We will be back in a minute. Do you want to be more deliberate about what you wear day to day? With pieces that feel effortless, comfortable and still put together. Quince has your solution. They make it easy to refresh your everyday looks this spring with timeless pieces made from premium materials like 100% European linen, organic cotton and ultra soft denim. Their lightweight linen pants, dresses and tops start at just $30 and are breathable, easy to wear and perfect for repeating all season long. I love Quince. They actually said, hey, would you like us to send you some items? Like here's a catalog. Why don't you pick like a few pieces? I picked a few pieces. They sent them to me immediately. I love them. These fabrics feel elevated, they are flattering, they breathe. The fit feels tailored without trying too hard. They're lightweight and the price is unbeatable. Everything at quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because Quince works directly with ethical factories and they cut out the middlemen. So refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quince.com nervous for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com nerve for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com nerve are you looking for the
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Maureen Callahan
we are back. So you know how on Friday's Nerve we took apart two stories as presented by Entertainment Tonight and how we have a death watch on all of these syndicated entertainment shows or entertainment news. And I use that in very loose quotes. This is why it took Me, and I consider myself something of a scholar, a real expert in this realm. It took me, like, a day or two to even realize that hardly anybody showed up at Meghan Markle's speech in Geneva. Like, there were, like, 10 people there, and it was outdoors, and there were all these stanchions put up, you know, in, like, New York. If you're here for, like, a big event, like New Year's Eve or something, and you're in Times Square and you'll see the NYPD has stanchions up everywhere. It was like that. It was like the stanchions in Times Square in New York City, except they were penning nobody in. Nobody showed up. And this trick stands there and she delivers this speech. It's so Norma Desmond. It's so Norma Desmond. Somebody will wind up dead in that Montecito pool. And I predict it will be Prince Harry. She, per Rob Shooters reporting, said to Harry, you stay home. This is my moment. This is my event. People are coming to see me, which they did not. But you know, she won't be denied. And I was saying to Marlena, there is this Instagram account I follow that is dedicated to every misstep Megan Markle makes and into my algorithm the other day. Now, I believe this photo is genuine, and I will tell you why. As of me speaking to you right now, it has been up for three days. And Meghan Markle is a cultural sniper. If she sees something she doesn't like, she gets her lawyers on it. You know, they're so litigious, those two. So that this creator has not been threatened leads me to believe that this image is all too real. And again, I would like to thank the Entertainment Tonights of the world for leaving this lane wide effing open for the Nerve. Okay, you're not going to see this anywhere else. This is Meghan Markle. This photo was taken from the back and the side. And you can very clearly see the back of her neck is many shades lighter than what seems to be. And I'm just going to say it, a very, very heavy application of bronzer. Her sister from another Mr. Blake Lively again. Everything's cool. Everything's fine here. We haven't just been through a cultural rejection for the ages. The Nerve just didn't do a mini last week called the Making of a Mega Craft per Marlena's wonderful punnery. No, everything's totally effing cool. We're not going to talk to reporters. Definitely not talking to reporters. But it. And I said to Marlena, I think Blake's been on the jab. Okay. I think she's on the job. She's dropped half her body weight. She looks even thinner than she did like one or two weeks ago at the Met gala. She showed up at a Fendi event. Now, why any high end house would want to associate with Blake, I've got no idea. But Fendi will no longer be getting a penny. You know, I have a shopping problem. I did. I'm not going to talk about it. I'm not going to talk about it. But she showed up at a Fendi event in New York City. Here she is. This was on the cuts Instagram page. And she's just posing and like, her hair is. She's moving her hair and. Oh, are you getting my best angle? And I'm so happy to be here. Why anyone would be foul anything by having Blake effing lively there is beyond me. Blake, you're not off the hook. The Nerve and the troublemakers are going to make damn sure of that. Okay, we did take Psycho Arsonist Ryan out back on our mini this weekend. If you haven't seen it, please do take a look. Psycho Arsonist Ryan and Blake the Snake. We're taking bets over here. This marriage makes it through the year. John Travolta. So Marlena sent me this. She texted it to me and she said, what is your theory about what's going on here? And I said, my theory is that this is exactly what Rob Shooter was talking to us all about on the Nerve at night last week when we were talking about how Gwyneth Paltrow's goop has never, ever turned a profit like the entertainment media and. And like fashion magazines. When she does a fashion magazine like a W or a British Vogue or American Vogue, they'll never say, hey, Gwyneth, how come your company, which is like a hundred years old, I mean, I'm exaggerating, but you know what I mean. Has yet to turn a profit. How can this be? How are you keeping things afloat over there? Who's bankrolling you? Amy Griffin. Who lied in her memoir, the Tell. Just our opinion, but a New York Times bombshell expose seems to back up with. The Nerve has theorized Amy Griffin lied about being violently sexually assaulted multiple times as a child by a teacher at her school, who she anonymized as Mr. Mason, but who is a real person who everybody knows in her hometown of Amarillo, Texas. Amy Griffin is a slug. My opinion. Anyway, back to what Rob was saying. That. That these actors, these celebrities, when they. When they inhabit a new incarnation, such as now I'm an entrepreneur, a Gwyneth Paltrow, a Kevin Hart. That for them, they're not really doing, like, the heavy lifting. It's another job. It's another acting job for them. They're like. It's another. It's another way of playing pretends. Now we go to the office. You know, the way that Jack Schlossberg is like pretending to be a politician. He takes a lot of naps, reportedly, allegedly, he disappears. And his staff doesn't know where he is. But he's. He's out there telling us he's a very serious person. Who are these people who are making up lies to the New York Times anyway? John Travolta. I saw this and I said, it's exactly what Rob was talking about. Marlena. He has made his directorial debut. And so you're gonna die when you see what he. He's in drag. He's like, in French director, new wave drag. He's like. He's. He's like. But he's not like. Because he didn't. He doesn't want to be a Quentin Tarantino, and he doesn't want to be like a 70s director. And he's not like. He wants to be like a European avant garde. I think he's. I think he's going to reference Ingmar BER here. And when you see this, you are going to die. If you're listening, I'll describe it to you when we're through. John explaining why he looks demented, why he look like I. It's drag. It's a drag performance. Here we go.
- [57:20]
Christopher Anderson
The old school directors wore berets, glasses and the glasses. And I thought, that's what I'm doing. I've been around for over 50 years doing movies, but I can't tell when I look back, the difference between the events. And I said, I'm a director this time. You're an actor. Play the part of a director. Look like an old school director. So I looked up pictures, 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s. And the old school directors wore berets. And the glasses. And the glasses. And I thought, that's what I'm doing.
- [57:49]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, my God. He's not even naming them. Cnn. That was a CNN clip. They interspersed the directors and identified them on screen. Ingmar Bergman, Roberto Rossellini. He doesn't even know. He's like, I just looked at directors from the 30s and they wore berets. He's not talking about the way they made movies. The lenses they use the way that they shot the cinematography, their style of directing. No, they wore berets and then glasses. So I'm wearing glasses. I don't even know if he needs them. But he's wearing them because. And he's got like. This is what it looks like. I don't know if it's the case, but it looks like he got like a strip of like adhesive facial hair from like a costume shop and just like stuck it on the bottom of his chin. Like it's way too even and, and like linear. Like it's so out of control. It's so out of control. It's just, it's a shame. You know, if you told me that the John Travolta of Saturday Night Live, which is like one of the most electrifying scenes in modern cinema, is when John Travolta dances for the first time in that film, Saturday Night Fever. Sorry, Saturday Night Fever. If you told me that guy would turn into this guy, if you even told me the John Travolta of Pulp Fiction would turn into this guy, I would have said no effing way. He's a director now. It can. So he's looking the part. Okay, Now, Brooke Shields went on the Today show and she spoke to those two morons. If who. Who cannot form a cohesive thought between the two of them. She said that she was sick to her stomach, quote, after her 23 year old daughter was cast on a reality TV show. This is the Next Gen show. It's all about Nepo kids. They follow around a bunch of Nepo kids who fight and make out and get drunk. And I mean, that's the deal on a Bravo reality show. You have to have conflict. You have to have conflict. And that revolves around three things. Criminal activity, inappropriate sex and drunkenness or drug addiction. So of course Brooke is like, I don't want my daughter doing this. Her daughter is doing it. She's on Next Gen. And we're going to show you the clip of Brooke talking about that here. Were you worried when she said she wanted to. Sick to my stomach. And I said, look, don't be a. You know what I mean? Don't like be the one. Be the voice of reason. You're going to be fine. And if you want to parlay this, I mean, it's Bravo and Peacock and. Yeah. And I. And she wants to be in broadcast journalism. Listen, Brooke Shields seems like a very decent person. It is amazing she survived her Hollywood child intact and her time in the modeling industry as a child Intact. But she has to know there is no way her 23 year old daughter is going to parlay all this indecent, embarrassing behavior one typically has to engage in for reality show stardom into a serious journalism career. It truly is one or the other. Pick one. You want to be a journalist. You know what? That involves a lot of deeply unglamorous, hard, underpaid work to earn your stripes and see if you have what it takes. Your daughter is not going to end up at the New York Times or wherever else. Come on, come on, just admit it. She just wants to be famous. She just wants to be famous. And this is probably the only way. You know, listen, I think some of, some of our greatest stars are reality stars. But like, it is a lane, if you are lacking in, in any other kind of distinguishing talent. Finally, we're going to end on a high note, a really, really positive note. Keanu Reeves. This came into my, my algorithm and I watched it a few times because I was like, is this real or is this AI? But it's real. Keanu is shooting his new sci fi movie Shiver in the Dominican Republic and someone caught him on their iPhone by himself, minding his own business, spending a day off, strolling through the mall. And it looks like these kids in the food court caught him. And he picks up that they've picked up who he is. And here we're just gonna watch him rolling on by, nodding and giving them the peace sign, smiling, and they leave him alone. And it's just a lovely moment. And there is. I have yet to encounter anyone who has anything bad to say about Keanu Reeves. Anything bad to say about Keanu. Who doesn't love Keanu? This guy. It's, it's, you know, it's, it's, it's, it says a lot about where celebrity culture is at. That, like that kind of decency is, is worth remarking upon because otherwise we're, we're suffering with the likes of Blake Lively out here over at Fendi and Meghan Markle over in Geneva. That does it. That does it. For our Tuesday edition of the Nerve. Please come back and see us tomorrow for the Nerve at night and again on Friday for a full episode of the Nerve. If you haven't already, go check out our substack at the Nerve show. Be sure to subscribe. We are now offering special bonus video content as well. Plus Nerve merch. We've got round two up in there, so go grab something new for yourself or a fellow troublemaker@shophenerve.com and we cannot wait to see you back here tomorrow at the Nerve, where you will never guess what we're about to say that next.
- [64:15]
Alzheimer's Association Representative
In the fight against Alzheimer's now matters more than ever. Because now we have treatments. Treatments that could change everything. But now is no time to stop. Now we've got momentum, so now we use it. Now we seize the moment. Now we turn the tide. Now we make a difference and make some noise. Now is the time to get up, get out and join the movement at the Alzheimer's Association Walk to End Alzheimer's, held in over 600 communities nationwide. And we need you with us because now is the time for hope. Join the fight@alz.org walk real talent is
- [64:46]
Christopher Anderson
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