Meghan & Harry's Next Battle, Keith Urban's Family Discord, & Lindy West's Faux Empowerment

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Nerve with Maureen Callahan — March 20, 2026

Episode: Meghan & Harry’s Next Battle, Keith Urban’s Family Discord, & Lindy West’s Faux Empowerment

Episode Overview

In this packed and provocative episode of The Nerve, Maureen Callahan is joined by tabloid insider Rob Shooter for an unvarnished look at the week's most outrageous celebrity culture moments. Together, they break exclusives about Meghan & Harry’s disastrous Netflix relationships, public meltdowns post-Oscars, and the underlying rot in the culture of faux empowerment (with a scathing dive into Lindy West's polyamory confessional). The show is unapologetically incisive, snarky, and skeptical—a must for anyone who wants the story behind the headlines.

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Main Segments & Highlights

1. Meghan & Harry vs. Netflix: The End of the Hollywood Road

[06:35–16:40]

Key Points:

• A scathing Variety article signals a final break between Meghan & Harry and Netflix.
• Meghan’s ‘diva behavior’ includes storming out of Zooms and refusing to work with assigned executives.
• Ted Sarandos, Netflix’s co-CEO, reportedly unfollowed Meghan on Instagram, and (allegedly) won’t take calls from her without legal counsel present.

Rob Shooter’s Insider Take:

"It is only insecure. It is only amateur talent that has to go right to the very top. This doesn’t just exist in celebrity. It’s like the person that walks into the bank and has to speak to the bank manager." [09:49]

"I think Ted is very smart. Don’t get on the phone with Meghan unless you’ve got your lawyers with you because she’s going to come after you." [13:44]

• Netflix is erasing the Sussexes’ presence in L.A., including lobby posters; their merch is now “in the giveaway piles for the underpaid peons.”
• There may be legal wrangling brewing, with the Sussexes accusing Netflix of leaked stories.

Maureen’s Mic Drop:

“If only these two had actual talent, they wouldn’t get themselves out of bed in the morning and feeling alive by launching lawsuits.” [14:18]

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2. Oscar Aftermath: Timothy Chalamet’s Vanishing Act & Hollywood’s Broken Awards

[16:40–29:55]

Timothy “Shamalama Ding Dong” Chalamet Drama

• Reports (Cosmopolitan) say Chalamet and Kylie Jenner walked out of the Oscars for an hour—then skipped the big “Dune 3” premiere, reportedly uninvited.
• Rob’s exclusive: The studio didn’t want Timothy there; he’s become a “distraction” post-loss, and the team is relieved not to deal with “his arrogance.”

"They demanded a private area, backstage... I assume it’s arrogance, they disappeared for [an hour.]" [19:21]

"He didn't win, and then they felt, to the last week like we all felt, something's changing, something's happening... It was actually quite good PR." [21:53]

• Chalamet is “being rolled up in the back room, metaphorically and literally.”
• The next “Dune” campaign focus: Zendaya and Robert Pattinson.

Oscars Ratings & Hollywood Disconnect

• Viewership plummeted by 9%. The show is irrelevant, too long, too slow, too disconnected from what audiences want.

"It's not fun, it's not professional. If you and me were hired to do a show and we brought it in eight hours late, we'd be fired." [27:02]

• Recommendation: Move Oscars earlier, focus on nominees people have actually seen (especially from Netflix), trim the fat, and get glamour back.

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3. Keith Urban, Nicole Kidman & Family Fallout

[29:55–32:59]

• The divorce is real and ugly—Nicole’s daughters, especially “Sunday Roast,” apparently don’t speak to Keith.
• Hollywood’s inner circle is siding with Kidman; Urban is shunned, but the real scandal is tightly controlled.
• "It has to be bad... What changed in this marriage to make this happen?" [30:39]

“She has a really tight circle... Mainly her sister and her family.” [31:56] Speculation: The scoop will break through Rupert Murdoch’s outlets, as Nicole is close with him and Hugh Jackman.

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4. Kennedy-Adjacent Trash: Carole Radziwill, Ghoulery & Reality TV Exploitation

[33:00–39:39]

• Carole Radziwill is rejoining “Real Housewives of New York” as a “friend of” and is shown on camera retrieving her late husband’s ashes after 15 years—Maureen calls it “one of the most ghoulish, disgusting things I’ve ever seen.”
• Carole’s Kennedy connection was always transactional, and the real skeleton? Her deep friendship with Ghislaine Maxwell, which Bravo insiders say is off-limits—officially.
• Rob’s scoop: Carole’s team tried to bar any on-air Maxwell mentions, but Bravo may let new cast members bring it up if ratings sag.
• Maureen suggests the Nerve would reach out to Ghislaine in prison to arrange a truly explosive Bravo moment.

"I wish she would talk about Ghislaine Maxwell because she was actually closer with Ghislaine than she was with the Kennedys." [37:05]

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5. Pop Culture’s Parade of Mediocrity:

Access Hollywood’s Demise, Today Show’s Cringe, and Southern Charm

[43:11–61:12, 47:37–50:00]

• Access Hollywood Cancelled:
  It’s been on air 30 years; Maureen eviscerates its irrelevance and congratulates The Nerve for hastening its end. Opening clips are lambasted for being out of date and reporting “warmed over leftovers.”

  “This story is ancient... the culture chewed over, digested and sh** out long ago.” [46:14]

• Today Show:
  Maureen shreds a segment featuring “how to dress like JFK Jr. and Carolyn Bessette” without acknowledging JFK Jr.’s troubled life and tragic death. Also, derides their fashion ‘experts.’

  "He was always throwing on a hat. And then the Birkin bag that she was always carrying... First of all, that's not a Birkin." [49:18]

• Southern Charm & Craig Conover:
  Calls Conover an undercover “troublemaker” (in a good way) for his reunion antics and sends him an open invite to the Nerve.

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6. Lindy West, Polyamory, and the Culture of Faux Empowerment

Extensive, Main Feature: [67:05–98:10+ important chunks throughout]

• Maureen goes long and hard on the "Brooklyn-faux-feminist-writer industrial complex," with Lindy West as the latest target.
• Reviews Lindy’s New York Times Modern Love essay/podcast, which details West’s open marriage and subordinate role in her own relationship.

“There are women in the culture who are not healthy... and they get book deals and they get TV shows, and they get lengthy pieces and podcasts... they're shoved into our faces as if these are people to admire, to listen to, to learn from, and emulate. And the Nerve is here to say the politically incorrect thing... No, we don't f***ing think so.” [67:32]

• Outlines Lindy's husband’s demand for non-monogamy, and West’s ongoing quest to justify it as liberation despite obvious anguish.

• Quotes:

  • Lindy: "I was always dreading when was that time gonna come." [89:32]
  • Maureen’s commentary: "Honey, if you think he's just got one extra woman, you are beyond deluded." [95:19]
  • Lindy: "You may tell her that is a beautiful photo... In a good way." [97:22]
  • Maureen: "He should love you in spite of your imperfections. In fact, he should love you because you're not perfect." [88:28]

• Maureen’s conclusion: “You want this for yourself, you hate yourself that much, fine. But you and the New York Times should be f***ing ashamed that you're trying to convince other women that this is a good, valid life choice for them.” [98:08]

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Notable Quotes & Standouts

On Meghan Markle:

“This piece is trying to make that sound normal because we've all wondered why exactly Ted Sarandos has kept the malignant cultural cancer that is Meghan Markle around for so long.” (Maureen, [07:55])

On Oscar Night Meltdowns:

“He needed a safe space... The guy who played the tough-as-balls underground ping pong champion of the world is actually a wimp.” (Maureen, [19:57])

On the Awards Machine:

“Nominate movies people actually have watched... I consume culture for a living, for fun and profit. I love it.” (Maureen, [28:29])

On Lindy West’s Marriage:

“She is telling on herself the whole time... He is spending your money to travel to see her at least once a month.” [95:19], [97:15]

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Timeline of Notable Segments

• 06:29 — Rob Shooter joins discussion.
• 08:47 — Netflix/Meghan & Harry inside scoop.
• 14:18 — Maureen on the futility of working with the Sussexes.
• 16:22 — Sussexes’ “merch” and PR fallout.
• 18:15–21:44 — Timothy Chalamet Oscars “meltdown” and Dune 3 exclusion.
• 25:28 — Red carpet dominance shifts to Zendaya and Robert Pattinson.
• 29:10 — Oscars “ratings disaster” and format critique.
• 30:39 — Keith Urban/Nicole Kidman family discord.
• 33:00 — Carole Radziwill’s Kennedy/Bravo drama.
• 47:37 — Coldplay Kiss Cam and Access Hollywood’s collapse.
• 55:00 — Today Show’s JFK Jr. cringe segment.
• 61:12 — Southern Charm and Craig Conover’s troublemaking.
• 67:05–98:10 — Lindy West's Modern Love, open marriage “empowerment,” and Maureen’s withering analysis.

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Conclusion: The Nerve’s Signature Tone

Uncompromising, sarcastic, and unafraid to skewer pop culture’s sacred cows, The Nerve mixes exclusive scoops, acute skepticism, and a refreshing dose of reality-checks. Whether it’s the culture-wrecking Sussexes, self-important Oscar failures, or the pseudo-progressive narratives infecting media, Maureen Callahan and her troublemaking guests dissect what no one else dares.

Next up? The Nerve promises war-game coverage of Lena Dunham’s memoir and deep dives into the New York Times’s Modern Love follies.

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Summary prepared for those craving the sharpest angles on culture and scandal—no empty handjobs, no Access leftovers, only the real story from the dark side of the moon.

Transcript

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[Maureen Callahan]

So good, so good, so good. Spring styles are at Nordstrom Rack stores now and they're up to 60% off. Stock up and save on rag and bone, Madewell, Vince, All Saints and more of your favorites. How did I not know Rack has Adidas? Why do we rack for the hottest deals? Just so many good brands. Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts. Shop new arrivals first and more. Plus buy online and pick up at your favorite Rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. Hello and welcome to your Friday edition of the Nerve. I am your host Maureen Callahan. We have a stacked packed ready to go show today. We are kicking things off with celebrity gossip reporter extraordinaire Rob Shooter who is going to break several exclusives with us here on the Nerve. The latest on Meghan Markle and Harry and the huge enemy huge enemy they have just made in Hollywood. This may be it for them. This may be it for them in terms of deals with any executive in the business anymore. There was a scathing piece and variety. We've got it all. Then we've got Rob's got an exclusive on Shamalama and Ding Dong who do. If you thought he might learn something from his peers in the industry mocking him on a globally broadcast Oscars Awards special ceremony. This guy. It's going to take a lot more and you know what? The nerves here to do it. Don't worry. The nerves here to take trash like that out. Okay. We're also going to talk about our favorite Kennedy adjacent person who is back in the culture. And again, if the Nerve has anything to say about this, it's not going to go well. It's not going to go well. Then we're going to talk about a bunch of other things that we didn't have time to address as as the week progressed because the week was just crazy with stuff. But Access Hollywood got canceled. We're going to get into it. The latest crimes against the culture that are being committed over at the Today show and we know there are people who work on the Today show who watch the Nerve and not like hate watching it. They know that we're right. Okay? So, you know, we're speaking directly to you guys. We. We know there are people over there on the right side of history, okay? And then we've got a major reality star who I'm going to present my evidence to you as your cultural criminal prosecutor that this star may have outed themselves as a troublemaker. Okay? Amazing. Plus, we've got your feedback. And then we were like, okay, where can we put this? It's so good. And as we were putting it together, this thing is even better, even better than we thought. And I'm just going to say that if Lena Dunham, whose memoir is about to come out in a few weeks, and trust me, troublemakers, when I tell you we here at Nerve hq, we are war gaming this thing, okay? War gaming are Lena coverage. This is, this is. This person is Lena Dunham. Adjacent is getting pride of place. Where else? In the New York Times. Oh, and by the by, you guys really are Maureen Dowd. Op ed critique landed with you guys like a mofo. And I think we're going to be revisiting Maureen from time to time. I think we are. We also know there are people at the Times who like the Nerve. Open up the Times. Any given headline these days, you're gonna find a pun on nerve. We know what's up. We know what's up. Are you ready? Are you ready? Let's go. After having a few drinks, are you finding it harder and harder to bounce back? Do you find yourself choosing between having a great night out or a great day after? Try Zebiotics Pre Alcohol. This is the first genetically engineered probiotic created by PhD scientists to help you tackle those rough mornings after drinking. Here is how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, that's really behind those sluggish mornings. Zone Zebiotics Pre Alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. So make it your first drink of the night, drink responsibly, and feel your best the next day. If you are ready to give Zbiotics a try, go to zebiotics.com nerve now you will get 15% off your first order when you use Code Nerve at checkout. That's cbiotics.com nerve use code nerve at checkout for 15% off. Joining us now is Rob Shooter of the Must Subscribe Substack. Naughty but nice. If you haven't already, go and pre order our next Nerve Book Club pick. It's Rob's new novel. It started with a whisper and if the troublemakers are going to listen, we already got Timothy denied an Oscar. Let's make sure Rob's book book hits the New York Times bestseller list the first week it's out. Welcome back, Rob. Welcome back.

[Rob Shooter]

This is your copy. The first copy I have. I'm sending it to you, my friend. So thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Maureen Callahan]

Rob, we have so much to get to. It's only been a few nights since I saw you live in studio, but there has been so much troublemaking in the culture and by repeat offenders. First, we have got to talk about this new Variety hit piece on Meghan and Harry. The headline inside Meghan and Harry's falling out with Netflix and why the royal couple is struggling. And I mean, get with it, Variety. They've been struggling for a long time. Reading from Matt Donnelly's piece published on March 17, the Sussexes perceived pattern perceived. That must have been a lawyer's note because it's a pattern of selling repackaged versions of the same story about their exit from royal life has exhausted Netflix. Quote, the mood in the building is we're done. One Netflix insider tells Variety their bedside manner, meaning Harry and Meghan has ruffled feathers in meetings Meghan is said to when she's on a zoom meeting with Netflix execs. If something offends her or someone says something that meets with her displeasure, she just gets up and walks off. She just gets up and walks off and she doesn't return for lengthy bouts of time. Continuing from the Variety piece, Rob3 insiders say Netflix chief Ted Sarandos is fed up with the pair, who per two sources have been known to who text directly with the co CEO about their projects, as do many a listers who work with the streamer. Rob, first of all, I want to ask you this. Is it really that common for talent to text with Ted Sarandos, one of the most powerful people in the entertainment industry, directly, do you I feel like this is just me, but I feel like this piece is trying to make that sound normal because we've all wondered why exactly Ted Sarandos has kept the malignant cultural cancer that is Meghan Markle around for so long. What?

[Rob Shooter]

I think he's finally had enough of Meghan and Harry, which is why this piece finally was put out there. I knew Variety was working on this. I've known for about two weeks. And just to pull back the curtain a little bit, I think it's fun to listen to media insiders. The sources that I have at Netflix I've been talking to and they've talked about told me two of them told me we've been getting a lot of calls from Variety. We feel like Variety is going to be working on this big piece. So the sources I speak to, the ones that Variety speak to, are really, really good sources. Let me answer your question though. It is only insecure. It is only amateur talent that has to go right to the very top. This doesn't just exist in celebrity. It's like the person that walks into the bank and has to speak to the bank manager. Deposit.

[Maureen Callahan]

No, think it would be like, let me speak to the president and CEO. Hi, JP Morgan Chase. Get me Jamie diamond on the phone.

[Rob Shooter]

You know, Barbra Streisand did this when she didn't like how Siri was pronouncing her name. She called the head of Apple or like she did and they fixed it. And so this is such a Karen move. This is such a do you know who I am? Type of move. This is such a, a diva move that I'm not at all surprised that Meghan pulled it. But there are thousands of people that work for Netflix who are there to solve problems. On all of Megan's projects, she was given a point person, a really talented point person. Somebody whose name is point person. Call that person. Meghan won't deal with that. She won't deal with anybody who isn't at the very, very top. And that's sort of a failing, I think on her. That tells you more about her than anybody else. But just a little bit of interesting news just to show you how petty and how mean this has got. Ted just unfollowed Megan on Instagram.

[Maureen Callahan]

Stop.

[Rob Shooter]

It just happened.

[Maureen Callahan]

We're all 13 year old girls at heart, are we not? You know, this is incredible too, by the way, you, you mentioning the point person that Megan had. First of all, when you have issues like that, people like Meghan Markle, there's an apparatus around you and an apparatus around Netflix and a way of doing things. You' your agent or your point person says, hey, we're having a bit of difficulty here. They bad cop, so you can always be good cop. And that point person. By the by, I believe Megan had deputized to deal with the fallout over telling her father with his freshly amputated leg at Christmas time to fuck off. She had a holiday Netflix special to promote. You know, like she, she wasn't, she's not in her right mind. So then the next, the next beast piece of like just juicy, juicy meat on this bone from Variety. Quoting from the piece, two sources insist that Sarandos recently said he would not sit for a call with Meghan Markle unless a lawyer was present on the line. Again, these look like legal notes to me in this piece. The sources were unclear if Sarandos was serious or joking. And Netflix spokesperson says it's absolutely inaccurate. But I can tell you as a reporter, as a longtime journalist, when you front load a graph with that detail and then you back in that graph with denials and obfuscations, it's usually the top part that everyone knows is true.

[Rob Shooter]

You're absolutely right. A little, a little hint here to the troublemakers. If on one of my substack stories you see the word reportedly, that's legalese. That's a lawyer that's told me to put that in. If I say someone is acting erratic, that's a legal word for code for drugs.

[Maureen Callahan]

Nightmare.

[Rob Shooter]

They're on drugs. So like if somebody's erratic, these are just little winks that we do all the time in the media. I loved reading the story. To me, it felt as if they got it, they got this story. The details were delicious. It got watered down a little bit by, by lawyers. But I think that's worth doing to get it out there. It's a great story. We know where the truth lies on this. And then today to have Ted unfollow her and unfollow her projects, that sort of exciting too. But there's something about these two and lawyers, we know that Harry is very litigious. He's gone after British organizations. They threatened American news organizations too. This is their, this is their amnio. This is what they do. And so my, my reporting now is that Netflix needs maybe not be careful but I think they're probably predicting this is going to happen. That I will not be at all surprised if Harry and Meghan now consider legal implications. Legal responses to Netflix. My sources were telling me, Maureen, that they believe Netflix is in breach of contract. Not quite sure how where there's also to a disparity clause in the contract that they wouldn't say mean things about each other. And so so far, Harry and Meghan have not said much about Netflix, but they believe Netflix are behind these leaks. This is what they accuse, accused Victoria and David Beckham of doing. Remember when they fell out for the Beckhams and it was because they thought Victoria was leaking. So I think they're building a case here. So I Think Ted is very smart. Don't get on the phone with Megan unless you've got your lawyers with you because she's going to come after you. She's going to find a way to make this Netflix problem rather than a problem of the content she was providing.

[Maureen Callahan]

If only these two had actual talent, they wouldn't get themselves out of bed in the morning and feeling alive by launching lawsuits. Hither and yawn. I mean, Rob, when will the, when will entertainment CEOs get the memo? Do not get in bed with these two. It only ends badly. They just wind up trash talking you and suing you for their own failures.

[Rob Shooter]

Yeah, I think it started to happen. Netflix is arguably Netflix and YouTube the two biggest now broadcast entities in the world. I think YouTube in Britain just overtook the BBC. It's just, it's scope is so massive now. And as we've seen media change, as we've seen the way that we consume entertainment, it's changed so much. I watch you on YouTube. Like I, I watch many, many of my favorite shows now on YouTube. A lot of don't even have cable anymore. And so I think that to upset the future, which is what Netflix is, or really it's the now and the future, it'd be better off upsetting ABC or cbs. It wouldn't matter as much. But to upset somebody like Netflix who. Let me be clear, celebrities bow down. Down to the biggest stars in the world want to work with Netflix. If Netflix want to have lunch with Nicole Kidman, she does it. If Netflix want to have lunch with Tom Cruise, he clears the schedule. So everybody important, everybody smart in Hollywood knows this. The only two people that everybody in Hollywood who's dumb knows this. Even the bad agents know that you shouldn't upset Netflix. They are the future. They are the now of broadcasting. And so for Meghan to pick this fight is really outrageous. My sources inside Netflix tell me they've been pretty much erased. In the Netflix offices around the world, but particularly in L. A, they used to have huge posters in the reception. Often media companies do this. If you walk into abc, you'll see a huge picture of Robin Roberts. If you go into NBC, into 30 Rock, you're going to see Tom Yarmus, who's now doing the nightly news. CBS has Gail King of the. When you walk in the lobby, I'm talking of Harry and Meghan have been removed. There's no longer any.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes, and they're. And, and they, they've been putting out Megan's overpriced unmovable merch on, like the giveaway piles for the underpaid peons over there. I think the Variety piece had it that Netflix is saddled with about $10 million worth of unsold as ever, or as I call it, a severe sever. Yeah, because they just sever ties wherever they go. You know, what are they going to do with this stuff? It's the jams are perishables. You know, you can't even, even the hungry wouldn't take it. Okay, I want to move on to Timothy Shamalama Dig Dong you. Okay, we've got one thing we're going to get to before your amazing exclusive. We're going to tease the troublemakers Shamalama Ding Dong, who had tried to put on his best behavior in the waning days and hours before that ceremony is reported. This is from Cosmopolitan. Grace. Great piece of reporting by Mehara Bonner, published March 17. Eyewitness claims Timothy Shamalama Ding Dong and Kylie Jenner walked out of the Oscar ceremony for a full hour. Quoting from the piece, Timothy and Kylie were replaced by seat fillers for an hour. An onlooker source tells the outlet, okay, so they picked this up from somewhere else. It seems like Timothy had enough, enough of being the butt of the jokes. I mean, what, he can slam ballet dancers and opera singers and he can't take his own shit? They only came back just before the best actress and best actor categories were announced. I mean, if there were awards for most classless nominees of the night for female Teyana Taylor, male Shamalama Ding Dong Rob,

[Rob Shooter]

they did leave. Now, let me give them a little bit of COVID here. It's not total cover. I've been at this award show many times and it's a long, boring night and a lot of the celebrities go out to the bar in the lobby. It's a really fun place to hang. I left my seat to go to the bar because that's where all the big stars were really celebrating and drinking and getting a little bit sloppy. It feels very Golden Globes at this bar, which I thoroughly enjoyed.

[Maureen Callahan]

However, it sounds fun, but, like, you were not nominated for an Oscar. You were gagging for, seated front row, dressed all in white like a, like an inpatient at a hospital for the mentally criminally insane. You know, with your sex bomb girlfriend with like cutouts everywhere drawing all manner of attention to yourselves. I think this kid can't cut his own. He has no problem talking everybody else and saying that what he does is top level. But they poke a little fun at him and try to Put him back in his place and he's getting the message. This Oscar ain't yours, kid. They're giving it to somebody with a little more humility and a lot more talent. He couldn't take it.

[Rob Shooter]

He couldn't take it. But, but, but. Let me finish that point. He wasn't in the bar. He didn't go to the bar. They disappeared. Had him. Had Timothy and Kylie gone to the bar to hang out with celebrities and have a glass of wine? I'd be like, oh, that's sort of like, actually kind of like a cool thing to do. They weren't. They just disappeared. I'm told they demanded a private area, an area backstage where they could go and decompress or have a moment alone. And I don't know if it was anxiety, I don't know if it was arrogance. I assume it's arrogance they disappeared for.

[Maureen Callahan]

He needed a safe space.

[Rob Shooter]

Yes, I think he did.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, I'm sorry. The guy who played the tough as balls underground ping pong champion of the world is actually a wimp. He needs a safe space, a padded room to deal with the rejection of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. Rob's exclusive Timothy Shamalama Ding Dong didn't skip. Skip the Dune 3 premiere. He wasn't invited. You published this March 18th. Quote, he's become a distraction. One insider says every question would have been about the Oscar loss and Kylie, not the movie. And the cast was relieved. This is an all star cast. Timmy's just one of many. He's nobody special here.

[Rob Shooter]

Yeah, yeah. This is a groundbreaking. So just two days after the Oscars, this was scheduled. It'd been on the schedule for a very, very long time. So don't believe that he had a last minute cancellation or a change of schedule. They did this deliberately and it was actually quite good PR because when they scheduled this, everybody thought they would have an Oscar winner sitting in that room. And so if I was the movie company, and let's be honest, before, before you, Maureen, before the troublemakers, he was the favorite. I know in the beginning of the awards season, not at the end, but in the beginning, Maureen, I'd given in. I thought he was the winner. I thought you and me were just going to have to suck it up and he was going to win. It is really shocking that he didn't win. Well, everybody at the new movie company that is coming out in December, they thought, gosh, this will be great. Timothy will win an Oscar on Sunday and on Tuesday he'll be sitting in front of the press. We might even bring his Oscar out. This will make our movie so classic.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, he definitely would have. That thing would have been soldered to the side of his body, hanging from what his genitalia used to be.

[Rob Shooter]

So he didn't win. And then they felt to the last week like we all felt, something's changing, something's happening. And I think the PR people who were really smart at this film decided it's just a distraction. Because every question I would ask every other reporter would be to Timothy and ask him, why did you lose? Was it your arrogance? Was it kind of like that would be the whole discussion of that press conference. So instead of having him turn up, he sent a taped video and Robert Patterson and Zendaya held the press conference, did a beautiful job of it, plugged the movie, and so they didn't want him there. And so it's fascinating already. Already the dynamics have changed.

[Maureen Callahan]

How much of that do you think was the publicists, the studio themselves, saying, it's better if you sit this one out? Because when it comes to talent at that level, they're never told no. They're never told no. Like, I personally think his ego couldn't take it and he just wanted to stay at home and lick his substantial wounds.

[Rob Shooter]

Yeah, I've been in those rooms. I've been in those talent rooms where we're like, we just don't want this to turn up. In the 90s, nobody wanted Michael Jackson at their events. Like, it just became something that you just don't want them there. And so you have the conversations and then the head of the studio makes a call to Timothy's people and there's a discussion. He probably didn't want to be there either. So it worked out well. Here I find that when talent doesn't want to do something and you don't want them to do it, it's easy. Where you get a problem is if you don't want them to turn up, but they really want to be there. He missed the premiere of Dune Part 2, so he's already got a track record of not showing up. So I think when he was told, contractually, you should be there, but we will be fine if you don't come to this press conference. I think he was relieved. I think his people was relieved. I don't want to feel like Timothy got off the hook here, but I think the movie company was probably very relieved too.

[Maureen Callahan]

Rob, what do you think this. We know the best thing for him to do would be to disappear for quite some time. I noticed, I believe it was within hours of the Oscars. I don't think 24 hours had elapsed. He was back on his Instagram promoting Dune 3. I thought maybe, maybe this would just humble the guy just a little bit. Just let the movie studio deal with the promotion. Just go quiet, you know, just be quiet. Like, don't be like, hey, guys, I'm back. I'm back already. 60 seconds elapsed. Did you miss me? Did you miss me?

[Rob Shooter]

Right? That's. That's who he is. That. That is who he is. I don't think if he was going to be able to learn something from this, he wouldn't have got himself in this mess because he would have learned something during the process. He clearly doesn't learn. He clearly doesn't take advice. He's clearly listening to nobody but himself. And that's why he's in the position he is in. I think as this movie gets closer and closer, the, the attention's going to be on Zendaya and Robert Patterson and

[Maureen Callahan]

he's going to see Robert Pattinson, who is becoming quite the act. You know, he's carved out a really nice lane for himself. Everybody thought he was just the actual. The dumb, dumb from Twilight. You know, he's. I actually, I find his choices very intriguing. And I find him an interesting guy.

[Rob Shooter]

Charming too. Maureen. I've interviewed him many times. I've seen him on red carpets. He stops, he talks, he's normal, he answers questions. He doesn't turn up with 20 publicists or Kylie Jenner. And so I think he's gonna be the. He's gonna be the face of this movie, him and Zendaya. And it'll be really interesting when the post is released.

[Maureen Callahan]

Let's see how big and for those of us who still once in a while inhabit a multiplex. And I'm going to go see the new Baz Lurman epic, the Elvis Presley in concert film within the next week or so. That's very telling. When you go in and you see those huge cutouts and the one sheets and the posters with the stars isolated, you know, Timoth is going to be rolled up in the back room, metaphorically, literally. Okay, a few more quick stories. Rob, this is not a surprise, but we do have to talk about it because it's a cultural thing and it does matter. Oscars viewership plummeted by 9%. The New York Times is saying it's its first real drop since 2021. That's like Covid era. It's just. It's not landing in the culture we know. As of 2029 it will be on YouTube and hopefully the nerve will be the absolute go to pre Oscar show on YouTube by then. But you know, what do you make of Hollywood? You know, the note as long as I've been alive has been the same after every ceremony. Shorten it, shorten it, shorten it, make it smaller, make it tighter, give them more, I'm sorry, less. The less star studded awards do them off screen, have a separate, you know, they won't take the note. What is the problem?

[Rob Shooter]

Look, every, every, every year we see them give a note on camera asking people to not go over their time in their exception.

[Maureen Callahan]

And the host is always a joke for the host. Oh, we're only like eight hours over time it looks like we're coming in on. It's like it's so broken.

[Rob Shooter]

Well, it's, it's not, it's not fun, it's not professional. If you and me were hired to do a show and we brought it in eight hours late, we'd be fired. If I went to a restaurant for my dinner reservation at 7 and they couldn't get me until 10, I would leave. And so it's just rude. People are busy, people are multitude, multitasking. The whole world has changed now. The way we consume, consume.

[Maureen Callahan]

Media attention spans have shortened ever further.

[Rob Shooter]

I think they didn't help themselves to a couple of things they did this year. They pushed the Oscars back. So by the time the Oscars happened, we were not even in February anymore. All these pictures were no longer in the cinema. You couldn't see these films. They felt so old, didn't they? So I think push it back up to closer to the beginning of the year, make it shorter. And I do believe that YouTube's gonna help. I think that having YouTube will help because really, honestly, shows like yours, shows like mine, we can, we can get people more excited. And I think the platform of YouTube now has more power than the Bachelorette on the ABC pre show.

[Maureen Callahan]

Absolutely.

[Rob Shooter]

There was no lead in, there was no excitement about this. And I do like to the glamour of Hollywood. I want it to be glamorous. I want the dresses. I don't want people there wearing beige. I don't want people then not wearing diamonds. I don't want people there making political speeches. I want just a really glamorous, glamorous night. And I think too when you do include people like the Bachelorette, she was on that show because it was abc, you degrade it.

[Maureen Callahan]

No, just Absolutely.

[Rob Shooter]

And ABC packs it too, with their TV stars. I don't want to see Lara Spencer or Michael Strahan.

[Maureen Callahan]

Who cares? You know, I watched Kelly and Kelly and Mark's like, after show the next morning. Those things used to be really fun. And you would get like the A list stars like, the minute after they won. And it was so boring. Like, like they had like Carson Kressley on. No offense to Carson Kressley, but, like, he's no longer culturally relevant. My other note for the Oscars is, hey, nominate movies people actually have watched. Okay. I still couldn't tell you half, half of the nominated films. Like, I don't remember their names. I didn't. And I consume culture for a living, for fun and profit. I love it.

[Rob Shooter]

And I think, I think just quickly let Netflix be in there. Let movies we've watched on Netflix. Let's let movies we've watched.

[Maureen Callahan]

Absolutely not.

[Rob Shooter]

Not on cinema. We've just got to face we've changed and the way we consume movies have changed. And there is no shame now to watch a movie on your laptop. And Michael Scorsese is making movies for Amazon. And so I think you're right. Pick movies that are culturally new now, not movies that we don't. We've not heard of. And I think cut all the minor awards. I don't care about short documentary. I don't care about foreign language. Keep it tight. I might be the top five awards. I might just. And the rest is an email.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah. Or the rest is just separate little bites. Bites here, bites here. Bites here, Bites here.

[Rob Shooter]

Look at us, Marlene. Look at us producing this.

[Maureen Callahan]

See, Marlena, you're not the only producer. I'm kidding. Marlena can never. Because she can never leave. She can never leave. She's locked up. Okay, Keith Urban. I'm very, I'm very interested to know what you are hearing. Nicole has started making a little noise, sitting for some very high profile interviews. We are learning that his daughters, particularly Sunday Rose, who is known amongst the gossip world as Sunday Roast, does not speak to him. And Hollywood has also cut him off. Um, what is what, like? Again, my question is, what did this guy do? Did he knock somebody up? People get divorced all the time. People stray all the time. What did this guy do?

[Rob Shooter]

We don't have that yet. It has to be bad because a week after they were married, he checked himself into Betty Ford. So she's known about his substance abuse, his alcoholism for their entire marriage. So that didn't change. So what changed in this, this marriage to. To make this happen. It's fascinating. We would have seen him on the red carpet at the Oscars on Sunday had they still been together. We would have seen him turn up with her at all the other fabulous events including the Met Ball. I think she's one of the co hosts that he's been, he's been cut out Hollywood his team, Nicole. Now I think that's not because they know what he did, that's just self serving. She's the biggest star. They always sort of take, take, take sides very carefully. But it will come out. It will come out. And the fact that the kids are angry, the fact that the kids know my sources tell me and they. Nicole's a very difficult person to report on. She actually lived in this building where I live once for a summer and even then it was very difficult to get any reporting on her. And I sort of admire her for this. She has a really tight circle and it's mainly her sister and her family. And when you keep your circle that tight, tight, it's really hard to find any information. I've tried, I've hit the phones, I've called everybody I know around her and what, what, what. The closest I got was the kids know, she knows and maybe a few family members but it's bad.

[Maureen Callahan]

You know who else I'm gonna bet knows the likes of Rert Murdoch. The other thing that Nicole, Hugh Jackman. They're very shrewd and savvy about this. They are very, they make sure to be very close to Rert. And so Rupert's outlets report only what Nicole wants. Just saying.

[Rob Shooter]

No, you're right, you're right. Rupert's birthday party in New York just a few weeks ago. The headliner didn't turn up. Sang was Hugh Jackman. Hugh Jackman performed at that birthday party to get Hugh Jackman to perform. He might come as a guest, he might turn up and say hello and blow a candle or say. But to actually get him on stage and sing four songs is, is a, is a big deal. And so you're right, that's where we'll find this. It will, it will be leaked to one of the Murdoch papers I would guess in Australia. She's very, very, very particular about keeping her roots there. Oh, do you know who else knows who would be delicious? Hugh Jackman's ex wife, Deborah. Deborah knows. That's right.

[Maureen Callahan]

Deborah would know. I love this Aussie mafia. I love it. Just another nice little tidbit. And aside for the troublemakers, if you think, by the way, if you think that that prominent people who are die hard members of one political party or another are mortal enemies. Not so. Money, power, celebrity trumps all. And I was shocked when I heard this. It was when I was working at the New York Post. Rupert Murdoch spent one presidential election the night watching the returns at a party at Caroline Kennedy's private apartment. That tells you everything you need to know. Speaking of the Kennedys, you've got this great exclusive about our favorite adjacency known as Carol Rads a will. And I just want to show a couple of clips from Rooney before we get into this hot exclusive you've got raw. Because she's coming back on the show. As a friend of on the reboot, I had to show this clip. And for those of you who don't quite get why I call Carol's late husband, some guy she married who had cancer, it's because he didn't matter to her. My opinion, JFK Jr. Mattered to her. Carolyn Bassett mattered to her. This guy was her way in. Okay, and in this clip we're going to watch just a quick hit of this and then one on the back end. She, for the cameras, for the Bravo cameras was filmed going to collect her husband's ashes, JFK Jr's cousin and best friend in England, where she had left them there for 15 years.

[Rob Shooter]

Yes.

[Maureen Callahan]

Here's this ghoul in full professional hair, makeup and wardrobe collecting those ashes. Listen closely. Here we go. I don't even remember. Oh. Oh my God. This is the. Oh my God. Wow. Oh my gosh. I don't remember being so heavy. She, she opened the scene by saying, smaller and thinner, but it was quite beautiful. Okay. She opened the scene saying, I don't remember, I don't remember any of this. And then, and then she's like, oh, it's, it's. I don't even remember the urn. Okay, we're gonna look at this other scene, which was one of when I saw this and I watch a lot of reality tv, this was one of the most ghoulish, disgusting things I've ever seen. And I thought, if there's a single member of the Kennedy fam family who still speaks to Carol, once this thing goes to air, they're never speaking to her again. Let's watch this. This is Carol in her five star hotel room, another sprightly 900 year old hipster with her like beats by Dre headphones, no doubt listening to Radiohead while patting her husband's urn. Here we go. I didn't expect it to have the impact that it's having on me, it's like something out of Spinal Tap, Rob. I mean. Okay, tell me your exclusive on Radziwill. Yeah.

[Rob Shooter]

It's shocking to me that. That the Kennedy family would have anything to do with her. And now after a little bit of digging, they won't. She hasn't been part of that family for a really long time. It's so exploitive. It is so. It is so reality tv and all of that is fine, except Carol positions herself as really a cultural ambassador. She looks. Yes, at all this stuff. She's on reality tv. But if you interview her about reality tv, she poo poos it. She thinks it's silly. And she's just doing this because of. It's funny and campy.

[Maureen Callahan]

It's not like we need the money. Yes, because I've seen her raw copy. It's terrible. She's not a writer. And she was swatting around that. That show Roni going, You know, I. I was a journalist at ABC News for 15. Yeah, that. As Bethany pointed out, that was 15 years ago. What have you done lately, sister?

[Rob Shooter]

I worked at ABC at the same time. And they didn't really remember her, but they did say she had a. A fascination with the Kennedys and when. Really when this guy. They. They worked together. And.

[Maureen Callahan]

Anthony. Yeah, Anthony.

[Rob Shooter]

It's really to. You know, I don't say on his deathbed, but when they got married, he was a very sick man. I think he gave her his name. She wasn't rather well for very long, but she figured out that was her connection to the Kennedys. I've said it on your show before. I'm gonna say it again and again and again because I know it annoys her and I know it annoys Bravo. I wish she would talk about Ghislaine Maxwell because she was actually closer with Ghislaine than she was the Kennedys.

[Maureen Callahan]

Was she closer to Ghislaine than Carolyn Bessette?

[Rob Shooter]

She. They were all friends. So Carol's book cover was photographed by Ghislaine.

[Maureen Callahan]

Her author photo. Her author photo. And as discussed with you and I, because we've both had our author photos taken, that's not just a throwaway assignment. You have to choose as your photographer somebody who you trust to get a nice picture that will live forever on the. God willing, on the back of your book jacket. So they were tighter than Carol wants to admit. And I don't understand how you're not an executive at Bravo or Andy Cohen. And, you know, all the reports Are all of these housewives franchises, they're all suffering. Okay. The culture's flushing them out. Okay. They're kind of done. How? That is not a part of the deal. You speak about this or you don't come back.

[Rob Shooter]

Well, I had this story that part of her negotiation to return is they couldn't mention Ghislaine. They can mention the Kennedys, but they couldn't mention Ghislaine Maxwell. And I spoke to Bravo executives, and they said absolutely not any of the ladies could bring up Ghislaine. And where it goes, it goes. This is where Andy's evil genius might actually make us like him just a little bit more, because Andy protects the ladies, but he protects the brand more. This season is boring. A producer will whisper into the ear of one of the new housewives who don't give a damn about Carol or the Kennedys. They'll whisper in. Hey, Carol, I hear you were really close with Ghislaine Maxwell. Carol will.

[Maureen Callahan]

How about this, Rob? If I'm an evil producer in an alternate universe, I'm reaching out to Ghislaine behind bars. And I'm saying, listen, you still have her cell phone number, right? Why don't we get Carol answering her cell phone like on Love After Lockup? You have a collect call from inmate number. So, like, let's. Let's have that on Cam.

[Rob Shooter]

Marlena, that is for the Nerve. Save that for us.

[Maureen Callahan]

We want that number, Rob. I mean, I could talk to you all day long, and I've already gone over with you and your very generous dispensation of time with us here at the Nerve. We just love talking to you and we will see you very soon, my friend.

[Rob Shooter]

I adore you. And troublemakers keep causing trouble. We'll talk soon.

[Maureen Callahan]

That's it. That's it. With our pal Rob coming up next. Oh, my God. This is a stacked show. I was dying as we were putting this thing together. There's so much happening. Access Hollywood taken out back and shot. We're going to get into it. The Today show wants to know, hey, would you like to look like a mentally unstable drug addict and a homicidal suicidal maniac who killed himself is sister and his sister in law. Yeah, let's do this. We're going to show you how to look like them. And we think a very prominent reality show star who showed up on a reunion this week may be outing himself as a troublemaker. Plus, of course, troublemaker emails. See you in a minute. Your liver does more than you know when it comes to to regulating energy, hormones, digestion and even your mood. But stress, toxins and processed foods are constantly overloading it. What can you do? Introducing Peak's Liver Detox Protocol. This two step system is gentle and powerful. Peak leverages nature's most potent botanicals, minerals and vitamins, combines them with their cutting edge extraction technology and creates supplements that make a difference. Their protocol has two main parts, a strong Sri Lankan turmeric mixed with cinnamon and black pepper that helps your body absorb the formula better and a spicy Sri Lankan ginger combined with cinnamon to support your immune system, improve blood flow and help with digestion. This all leads to less bloating, steadier energy and a clearer head. No miracles, just consistent well being. Peak elevates nature's best with cutting edge tech. Pure effective. Ditch the fads and commit to intentional health. Unlock 20 off and establish your powerful foundation for sustained well [e-mail] thenerve that's P I Q U E life.com the

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[Maureen Callahan]

we are back now before we get to your incredible feedback and some troublemaker photos, we have got to celebrate the the cancellation of Access Hollywood, which believe it or not has been on the air for 30 years. I keep my eye on this thing for you guys, for the Nerve because the Nerve is the dark side of the moon as far as this shit's concerned. The and I would like to think that the Nerves rise is going to result in more cancellations such as these. These useless shows that serve as just hand jobs for any given asshole who got a camera shoved in their face at some point. You know it's like ridiculous. It's ridiculous. Now here's a piece called why Access Hollywood Really Got Canceled by NBC Universal after 30 years. It's from Reality Tea. It was published March 17. But I mean, does this piece even need to exist? I'm going to show you one clip of a recent opening. This is, like, from this week, okay, A recent opening of Access Hollywood. Mario Lopez coming at you. And then we're going to look at a little bit of the actual coverage that Access is giving their lead story. And that. This is the lead story just tells you everything as to why this thing is getting canceled. Okay, let's look at the Open to Access. Here we go.

[Rob Shooter]

The woman at the center of the

[Maureen Callahan]

Coldplay Kiss Cam scandal speaks out. Access Hollywood starts right now. So this. I love this. Okay, so this is Mario Lopez alone on set because he's the star correspondent for Accessor. He's really the host. He doesn't do any, like, out in the field work. You know, it's not like he's like, combat in Vietnam, you know what I'm saying? But he's like. Our lead story is the Coldplay woman. Now, again, the problem that is right there, you can't even use her name because none of us know who the fuck this woman is by name, okay? This story is ancient, okay? This story blew up last summer, okay? We are about to go into another summer. The Coldplay woman. Okay? And then. And then we get a quick pivot. Mario pivots to camera two over here. Because we got to have action in this story. And Access Hollywood starts right now. I mean, come on. Come on. Okay, now we're going to cut to Access's coverage of. It's not even the coverage of the story Access Hollywood is covering. Oprah Winfrey covering this story by interviewing the Coldplay woman. And by the by, this isn't even an exclusive for Oprah. Oh, how the mighty have fallen back down to earth along with Gail, you know, from outer space.

[Lindy West (via audio clips)]

Like,

[Maureen Callahan]

this woman gave her exclusive to the New York Times. That's a print outlet. You know, like an Oprah is. Is. Is taking their, like, sloppy seconds. And thirdly, you know what? I'm going to talk to you about how the nerve would cover this story. Marlena and I actually debated whether we should even cover the Coldplay woman. And we're going to talk about why on the back end. But let's just take a look at Access. This would be like if you came to my house for dinner and I warmed up leftovers that I didn't even cook, that, like, I ordered in, take out. Like, that's what this is. This is a third rehashed serving of a meal. The culture chewed over Digested and shout out long ago. Here we go. Eight months later, the woman in the Coldplay Kiss cam video finally speaks. Oh, thank God. Universal Studios. And it was the video seen around the world, literally with 300 billion views. Watching the moment astronomer CEO Andy Byron and HR caught on the concert Access camp. And now Kristen is opening up to Oprah in her first on camera interview. Everybody assumed I was horrified because it meant somehow I got busted. Having an affair like that is not what was happening.

[Rob Shooter]

Having an affair sh. With the billions of people who watched

[Maureen Callahan]

the video, didn't know was Kristen was amicably separated from her husband and planning a divorce. And he had told her he was as well. This is the problem. There are many problems here, and I'll just break them down. Number one, Access is just reporting what this woman is saying as if it's bible and verse. The guy who was in that video has never spoken. When this woman gave her exclusive to the New York Times, they asked him for comment and he said in some substance off like he's just trying to get his life back. This woman is enjoying being famous, okay? And I don't understand why Oprah's interviewing this woman at all. What, what, what does she have to offer? The culture. In fact, this woman was head of HR over at that company. I forget what it. What it is or what it does, you know, but it's like she's actually the face of what's wrong with HR departments. Low the Western world over. HR is bullshit. HR is there to protect the company, not the employees. Everybody knows HR is like the place of last resort. You know, you have to be really desperate. So the head of HR is carrying on with the company's CEO and they're both married. And they have the balls to do it amongst their co workers who are all out on a work jaunt at a fucking Coldplay show. But she's just misunderstood. Honey, the culture doesn't care to understand you, okay? We've all moved on. You're a circus act. You're a sideshow. Now over to the Today show. The Today Show. They've clearly been having production meetings about how do we. How do we cover the cultural phenomenon that is Ryan Murphy's love story? JFK Jr. And Carolyn Bessette. How can the Today show cover this? It's certainly not going to be with incisive, original, smart and funny reporting. They're just incapable of that. They cannot do that. Also, every segment that they do. Again, the Today show host, it's like the band, the Arcade Fire, There have to be. There has to be at least 80 co hosts on that set so they could all get a chance to ask a question like it's a participation trophy. So the Today show decided now, earlier this week, no, maybe it was Thursday of this week. So it was yesterday. They, they did a segment again, reheated leftovers on how men can style themselves like JFK Jr. And they had a little fashion show with like, not even male models. You know, it's like production assistants. They like wrangle into the shit without noting the obvious. The guy was an idiot. He was a suicidal homicidal maniac who killed himself, his wife and her sister in an extremely violent, wholly preventable crash that he may have deliberately caused. And before he plummeted that tiny plane into the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean, he almost hit a packed commercial American airliners jetliner making its descent to jfk. It's all an ask Not. Not that those knuckle draggers over there have read ask Not. I exclude the faction at the Today show who is secretly sneaking episodes of the Nerve or just listens in your ear so you can go undetected. You guys, you know, you're the resistance. As far as we're concerned, they're the Nazis and you're the resistance. But let's look at the Today's shows piece from three weeks ago. They just did this three effing weeks ago. Savannah, don't rush back, okay? Don't rush back. Take your time. God knows what they're going to cook up for poor Savannah. Okay, let's look at the Today Show's tips and tricks. Their pro tips on how any regular person can look like JFK Jr. And his deeply unstable, troubled drug addict of a wife, Carolyn Bessette. Here we go. It's the new show that's getting a ton of buzz. Love story about the romance between Carolyn Bessette and JFK Jr. And now everybody, including us, wants to snag their signature style. Well, the Internet is going crazy over their iconic fashion. Jenna Bush Hager. Her bosses at NBC need to send her to a speech therapist and an elocution expert because she does this thing. You know who does this? Also, like, no shortage of reality stars, but Kyle Richards on Beverly Hills is among the worst offenders. Ing the gerund. It's ing it's not in. In. Jenna Bush Hager. In. And Chanel. Then again, if she had two brain cells to rub together, she would say to her producer, I'm not reading this cliched boilerplate claptrap. Who wrote this? Maureen Dowd. The Internet is going crazy. The Internet is a thing. It can't go crazy. A person can go crazy. Like, Carolyn Bessette can go crazy on her husband. Saying, like, they're tearing me apart. They won't leave us alone is like the buzzer rings with, like, you know, her coke dealer. Like, somebody you invited over. Anyway. Okay, here we go. They're gonna tell us how to get this iconic style. Let's do it. He always has that 90s cool guy, oversized look. Yeah. Always has a little bit of a print or a color peeking out from underneath of his jacket. And then their accessories are what really make them stand out. So her headband and then, of course, his hat. He was always throwing on a hat. And then the Birkin bag that she was always carrying on. This is obviously not Birkin. First of all, there are many things. And if you're listening, I'm gonna compel you go over to the YouTube channel and watch this part in the middle of the show. Because it's. You need the visuals. You need the visual aid. They're fashion expert, and mind you, they're broadcasting from New York City, okay? One of the world's fashion capitals. There are no shortage of stylists who could get on the Today show and say, now, clearly, that's not a Birkin. Instead of, obviously, that's not Birkin. Birkin isn't a label sister, okay? It's an iconic handbag named for Jane Birkin. It's obviously not Birkin. Why don't you also talk about the resale platforms that many women avail themselves of in order to get their foot in the door with a Birkin or the super fakes. That's like a whole segment. But, you know, I obviously. I don't know why I bother. Now, the other thing about the JFK Jr. Monkey, the guy looks. The guy looks like they grabbed him making a matcha soy latte from behind some counter in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, or maybe Bushwick. Okay? And that's his day job at night, you know, he's in an indie band that's going nowhere. He's got, like, a starter proto mustache. And I'm just gonna say it when they talk about, like, JFK juniors, Kangal. And not for nothing, the producers of Love Story said they almost had a pause production and not go forward because three weeks out from shooting, they still didn't have an actor to play JFK Jr. And the reason why they said, quote unquote, we're not making guys like that anymore. We're making Neuters. You know, like Timothy Shyamalama, Ding Dong. They couldn't find a guy with hair on his chest, like, literally, let alone height and musculature. And he, like, looked like a dude. This guy. I'm sure you're very nice, sir, but that's not it. And forgive me if I'm wrong, but when he's showing off his kangal and going like this, the guy's gay from space. Gail could see him from up in blue Origin before we get to our emails. Lastly, lastly, I was watching the Part 1 reunion of Southern Charm, and I, I, I am. I regret to say that this show is. It's, it's swirling the drain. It's swirling the drain. Once a great reality show. Nonetheless, American hero Craig Conover, who once showed up to a reunion so off his face on allegedly reportedly substances that he drunkenly, while slouching in his chair, forced a fake fellow cast member to cop. She denied it. She denied it. To cop to being a rod's side piece while a rod was engaged to Jennifer Lopez, which resulted in that breakup three weeks later and Benifer 2.0. That's what Craig Conover has given the culture. And I think Craig Conover is secretly a troublemaker. And you want to know why? Because he showed up on that set not only with a awesome, like, jacket that had lapels that, like, are popping up to here, like, I haven't seen that before, but he had on a brooch that had a dangling pearl. Craig, I'm going to choose to believe it and just know you always have a soft landing here at the Nerve. Okay, on to troublemaker feedback before Marlena kills me because I'm always going over. I can't, I can't get enough of talking to you guys. Okay? From troublemaker Ellen. Oh, she says troublemaker Al her. Her from email says Ellen. So forgive me, Ellen. Troublemaker L. Troublemaker L. Was Ryan Murphy snorting Carolyn's old stash when he made this series, or are the Kennedys paying him? Interesting theory. To make junior look like a whipped husband who died because his wife was late because she was having a manicure. That is great. Dear Maureen, in what appears to be a calculated move to position herself as an intellectual extraordinaire. And when I tell you there's Easter eggs in this nerve for our mini Sarah Jessica Parker will receive an honorary doctorate from Northwestern University, which has one of the most vaunted journalism schools in America, and deliver the commencement address to the class of 2026. Any troublemakers who will be attending said commencement. Please record audio and video for the Nerve. Okay? It is bookmarked on our calendars. We are covering this. I. I can't. I can't even. Good morning, Maureen. This is from troublemaker Wayne, who sends us just the most incredible like these are like psychic scapes of alternate realities. Maureen When I was in the Marine Corps, every this is about my foul mouth. When I was in the Marine Corps, every other word out of the di's mouths at Parris island was a swear. When I went home on leave, my mom slapped me so hard for swearing my head spun around for at least five minutes. I was just wondering, what platoon were you in? I have said this before. My father served in the army in Vietnam, was a paratrooper and upon leaving went into civilian life as a truck driver. And even my mouth shocked him. Okay. When Steadman and I, Stedman Graham, Wayne continues and I were embedded with Teddy and his SEAL team last month, every other word out of his little mouth was a swear. I looked around at the faces of the other team members, all hardened combat vets. They were shocked to hear their team leader now swearing like a drunken sailor in a Yokohama bar. He obviously picked it up from someone near and dear to him. Maybe they were shocked Wayne because he's only five pounds. I don't know. Wayne continues. The first annual Podcast Awards are coming up in your show. Is a shoe in for best pod? Wayne that is very kind. They're never going to award the likes of the Nerve. Okay, we tell too many tales at a school, but that school cool with us. But Wayne says let's pretend, let's pretend the Nerve is going to win that when I and Teddy, when Teddy and I rather are up on the podium at the Podcast Awards absorbing all the well deserved accolades. We'll see. We certainly would never duck out like Shamalama ding dong. Are the two of you going to blurt out? One, we'd like to thank our producer Marlena. Two, we'd like to give a fucking shout out to Bill from Brooklyn. And last but not least, Teddy and I would like to send a big thank you to our fucking sponsors who without our fucking show wouldn't be fucking possible. Just wondering. Never know Wayne. Never know. Good morning, Maureen. I heard you talk about the gentle giant Mastiff dog Mastiff Dog breed last week and I just wanted to share mine with you. This guy is a heartbreaker. We're going to show a full screen two photos of Ford, our almost 22 month old. Congratulations. You still have A baby. Our almost 22 month old 180 pound South African mastiff. I didn't know that there were South African mastiffs.

[Lindy West (via audio clips)]

Ford.

[Maureen Callahan]

Carrie writes troublemaker. Carrie is my angel. Oh, we got him after. I'm so sorry. After we had to unexpectedly put down our 16 month old boy due to some nefarious interference from a shitty neighbor. Oh my God. I hope you sue. I hope you sue. Carrie, you are so right about this breed. The mastiff. My mom had a mastiff and he was the sweetest guy. Clancy. Oh God. Ford has no idea how big he is. He wants to snuggle a lot. He loves to be in our laps. He could totally open doors that are a jar. But instead he whines because he thinks he is stuck. Clancy too was not the brightest, but we loved him anyway because his heart was just the sweetest thing. He is so timid walking over the thresholds on our wooden floor. But he bounces right back over them once you place a rug on them. My husband laughs how often I say he about how often I say he is stunning. Regarding his appearance, I think your husband might be a little threatened. Just make sure you know your husband knows he's number one. But he probably won't be for much longer. Let's be real. Okay, the last one. Hi Maureen. I hope Tayona Taylor, who we took out back to the woodshed with Mark Bowden on our Oscars body language special. Get some work soon because this troublemaker writes troublemaker. Donna. If you check out IMDb.com this woman has no work on the horizon. I'm sure she didn't earn much from one battle after another. I think she is one of those actors who is a one hit Oscar season. Oh my God. The Nerve. The Nerve is expanding our reach. We are, we are so right about this woman. Just as we're right about Timothy. Keep your feedback coming. Please email me maureenvilmakeremedia.com or DM me on Instagram at Maureen Callahan, writer Or at the Nerve Show. Remember to subscribe to the nerves [e-mail] just go to thenerveshow.com you'll see a prompt. Would you like to sign up for the Nerves Weekly email? It'll drop in your inbox after Friday's Today's last Full Nerve. Just put your email in hours later. There you go. Bonus content. My Rex. Tons of stuff. Troublemaker talk, TED Talk. You got it. Coming up, our New York Times. Do you guys remember when we did the Modern Love that the New York Times did a pod on and it was a couple, a man and a woman who were both like, yeah, we. The wife was straight, the husband was gay. They were like the New York Times's version of Barry Diller and Diane von Furstenberg. We also covered Barry Diller on a very early nerve. This one rivals that one. It may even surpass it. Okay, and again, it's we're priming that pump for when we go for Lena Dunham when her memoir comes out in a few weeks. See you in a minute. Do you second guess the nutrition, taste and sustainability of the seafood that you bring home? Introducing Wild Alaskan their seafood is 100% wild caught, never farmed. And that means no antibiotics, GMOs or additives. Just full, clean, nutrient rich fish that supports healthy oceans, healthy bodies and healthy fishing communities. Wild Alaskan Company delivers perfectly portioned wild caught seafood straight to your door. The fish is frozen right off the boat to lock in flavor, texture and nutrients like omega 3s. Every order supports sustainable harvesting practices and their flexible membership includes expert tips and feel good seafood. My personal favorite is the wild sockeye salmon. It's rich, it's buttery, it's incredibly fresh. And the best part? You can try it all risk free. And if you are not completely Satisfied with your first box, Wild Alaskan Company offers a 100 money back guarantee. No questions asked. Just high quality seafood that you can feel great about. Not all fish are the same. Get seafood you can trust. Go to wildalaskin.com nerve for $35 off your first box of premium wild caught seafood. That's wildalaskan.com nerve for 35 off your first order. And thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode. Hey everyone, it's me, Morgan Stewart and I have a new podcast called the Morgan Stewart Show. Join me each week as I talk about pop culture, fashion, my personal life and just a warning, I'm going to be giving my opinion on everything. I'll also have some really fun guests to join in on the fun the Morgan Stewart show is out now. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts or watch full video on YouTube.

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[Maureen Callahan]

we are back. I'M just gonna say the thing that we. We normally don't say. But, like, Marlene is always in my ear saying when she's not flashing time codes at me and prompter, like, we are over. We are over. The show's supposed to be an hour, and sometimes we'll go like an hour and 10, an hour and 15. But I couldn't help myself. Today's show is too fun. I'm having too much fun talking to you guys. So break this nerve up into bits if you can't hang for the whole thing. That's what we're here for. We want to be here for you always. You know what I'm saying? We can't cut this down because it's too good. This is a trend in publishing that is on its dying vine, but the nerve's gonna kill it, okay? And it's a trend not only in publishing but in, like, lifestyle pieces. So by publishing, I mean books and then lifestyle pieces in, like, you know, the Cut or the New York Times. You know, places that like to think of themselves is, like, progressive in every way. It's very Brooklyn centric. Like, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting some lady who's like, yeah, I'm in a throuple. Like, yeah, I'm in an open marriage. My life's never been better. You know, it never ends well. It just never ends well. There is an author named Linds. Lindy West. Excuse me. Okay, this is going to be trouble already. Lindy West. Now, Lindy has been a minor figure on the scene for quite some time. She is Roxane Gay Lena Dunham adjacent. By which I mean, these are women. And I mean no offense to anybody who struggles with their weight, because that is a very personal, specific thing. I'm talking about women who seem very disordered, like, very mentally disturbed, who have eaten themselves into a morbid obesity that, you know. And again, we all know how the nerve feels about GLP1s to, like, shake off £10. Don't do it. If you're morbidly obese, that's a whole other ball of wax. Like, for health reasons, you probably should. But there are women in the culture who are not healthy. And I don't just mean physically. They are mentally unhealthy. And they get book deals and they get TV shows, and they get lengthy pieces and podcasts in places like the New Yorker and npr. New York Magazine, the New Yorker. You know what I mean? And they're shoved into our faces as if these are. These are people not Only to admire, but to listen, to learn from and emulate. And the nerve is here to say the politically incorrect thing, but that impolite society will get you canceled or kicked out of a social circle. And that is, no, we don't fucking think so. Okay, Lindy west is our next pinata. This is an intro via NPR's 2019 review of the Hulu show Shrill, which was adapted from Lindy's book. The review was by a woman named Linda Holmes. And this is just. This is a part of what I'm talking about here. I'm setting the table. Linda writes Lindy West's 2016 book Shrill Notes from a Loud Woman is appropriately. Okay, so they're already telling you what to think. Appropriately. A holler, spelled H, O, L, L, E, R. It's a holler of triumph, of laughter, of hurt, of anger, of joy, of frustration, of defi. This book sounds like a mess of defiance, but it is a holler. I guess that means like a cry. But a cry for what? For help. West, the writer continues, talks about life on the Internet as a feminist and a fat woman. I guess that nomenclature was okay with Lindy. I think she uses that appellation for herself. She talks, the piece continues, about being loved and being at peace with her body. If GLP1s have given us all just the blatant truth that is just indisputable. There is nobody who is extremely overweight who is at peace with their body and loves their body. Okay, Lizzo, get the fuck out of here. This is such terrible messaging. I hate it. It's fundamentally dishonest. And she talks about learning to unapologetically occupy space. Again, one of my favorite phrases, taking up space, occupying space. Space isn't something you could put your arms around, okay? It's this. It's the can you grab space, let alone occupy it? But this NPR hack writes, both literally and figuratively. Again, the editor inside of me would slash this to ribbons, disembowel this writer in the editing room, and send her packing. All right, here's a sampling. We're going to take a little bit of a look at this show, okay? This is going to tell you everything. This is a specific kind of person in the culture, and we're flushing them out. You're going away, sisters. Bye, bye. Sayonara. Here's a sampling of former SNL cast member 80 Bryant as Lindy, or a version of Lindy, a super smart, take no prisoners, liberated feminist who may be morbidly obese, but has a ton of Hot guys who want to fuck her and has total agency over her body and sexuality. Here we go. Took this pregnancy test in your bathroom and I believe that it's defective because it just gave me a very disturbing false positive positive. So I would love to do an exchange, please. How is it defective? It says that I'm pregnant and that's impossible because I've been taking the morning after pill. Do you weigh over 175 pounds? Yes. The morning after pill is only dose for women £175 and under. What? But I. I've taken it before. It's supposed to be for emergencies only. I guess I'm just wondering why the pharmacist who's usually here when I'm here, the like, Irish hunk, like, why didn't he tell me that the morning after pill wouldn't work for me any of the last seven times that I've come here and bought it? That guy's very bad at his job. Yeah, okay, okay, we can stop it right there. Stop it right there. That's it. Among the many problems I have with that. It's just not funny. It's not a funny bit for many reasons. The character played by Ad has gone to her pharmacist at her local cvs, Duane Reade, what have you. And she's holding her like, I'll take my remote control, her pregnancy test like this, just a naked used pregnancy test that she peed on to get that result. And this is treated like that's a semi normal thing. Like, you see, the pharmacist in that scene doesn't even flinch or recoil or say, that's not sanitary. I mean, granted, this is before COVID and everybody's antenna went up, you know what I'm saying? Like, a normal person would put it back in the box or put it in like a Ziploc bag and then wash their hands and make sure. Do you know? Do you. Then this character says, well, I take pregnancy tests all the time. Because you know what else I take all the time? The morning after pill, which is meant for conditions of emergency, like a condom breaks. Or you look at your diaphragm and you're like, holy shit. Like somebody poke a hole in that thing. Or you've, God forbid, been sexually assaulted. It's not contraception. And this doesn't help people. On the pro life. Sorry. On the pro choice side, this kind of idiocy, this kind of idea that, like, hey, you know, all bets are off. Get pregnant, you know, like, stop it, stop it, stop it. Okay, Now, Lindy West. Lindy west, who, like the 1% of the people who remain reading the New York Times know she was the subject of a huge profile in what passes for that paper a couple of weeks ago. And this is also, this was, this was done as both a print piece with like huge photos of Lindy and also as their Modern love podcast. And we are going to push a deeply not only false sentiment into the culture. Okay? This woman's a writer and she's shilling her next book. And not only is she going to tell us that in her last book of essays, of personal essays, so something of a memoir, that she lied to her readers. And I'm sorry, when you break that trust with your readers, you can't get it back. That is not something to be trifled with. Now she's telling the truth. Now Lindy's telling the truth. And not only does she love being morbidly obese, does she love it? She got married and her husband turned around and said to her, you know what I want to do? I want to go. Other women. There is a movement in the hipster community in which that is called ethical non monogamy. And that is some. That some hipster dudes came up with to convince women who like to think of themselves as open minded and they would never offend their husbands having the guts to tell them they want to. Other women. Oh, it's just ethical nominal. You know, she's really into. She's not only into it. She really loves her husband's girlfriend. She might even have like a girl queen crush on her. Maybe a little bit more. The headline, Lindy west thought she couldn't handle polyamory. She was wrong. Was she? Was she? We're going to go through it together, my friends. Okay? This was published on March 4, 2026, and the writer is. Let me just double check. Oh, Anna Martin. Anna Martin wrote this and conducted the interview. We're going to look very. Before we get into the pod real fast. The Daily Mail woke Seattle. Writer claims she's no longer devastated by husband's demand. That's the proper word for open marriage. Oh, my God. I didn't even get to this part because we were like running out of time for production. She had a three sub with him and his girlfriend. And that's the proper nomenclature. She's the wife, but she was the third party in the sex between him and his girlfriend. Oh, my God, get some fucking self respect. Lindy. Lindy. The New York Times lead. This is. See what I Mean, See what. You'll see what I mean. Whenever non monogamy comes up in conversation. This is Anna writing with my friends, and we are 30 somethings in Brooklyn, so this is not infrequent. Oh, God, I can't, I can't. And you know what else I hate? This phrase that has now entered the lexicon called like, opening up a marriage. Like, if you're gonna do it, just be grammatically correct, okay? Be grammatically correct. It's opening, not opening up. Opening up is redundant. If you're opening something, it's open. Come on in. All comers, anyone who wants to your spouse, come on in. Anna continues at the end of her moving and hilarious first memoir, shrill. I mean, that really landed in the culture, did it not? Lindy marries the love of her life. His name is difficult to pronounce, so she calls him Aham. Aham. Or we'll get into it in the pod. I'm sorry, but there was something she didn't share with her readers at the time. Okay? So she gave herself a fake happy ending in her book of personal essays. Oh, the fat girl found love. I sound like Miranda Priestley in the Devil Wears Prada when she looks at Andy and she's like, I'm so disappointed. I said to myself, go ahead, take a chance on the fat girl. Ahem. Did not want their relationship to be monogamous. Oh, and by the way, the comments on this piece and this pod are off. They're off. And the New York Times, if you're going to pump whatever you're going to pump out into the culture, whatever op EDS you're going to do, leave your comments on, okay? At least have the courage of what passes for your convictions. Okay? And if the subjects of your. Of your profiles get offended, that's on them. You got it? You're going to put this stuff out in the culture, you better be able to fucking take it. You know what I'm saying? Stop disabling your comments. New York Times. All right, let's listen to Lindy. Let's get into it. This big feminist rebel named Lindy West. Here's what she imagined marriage would be like. And if you think she thought it was going to be this unconventional, unorthodox, hipster Brooklyn, well, we'll see together. Here we go. When you got married, what did you hope your future would look like?

[Lindy West (via audio clips)]

So I think I just imagined that we would, you know, stay on the sort of traditional track. I. I thought we would probably have a baby and have a.

[Maureen Callahan]

Buy a house, so she wanted to have a husband that was faithful to her, that's implicit. Have a baby. Presumably Lindy isn't taking the morning after pill after every time she has sex and take out a jumbo loan so they could buy a house and just be like normal people, you know, whatever normal is. You know what I mean? Now we're gonna get to the meat of this piece, Lindy and. Ahem. I think I'm saying his name right. I just want to say Ahab, like, you know, mommy dick. This isn't. This isn't working out, Lindy. None of it's working out. So Lindy and Aham break up a bunch of times, and then they get back together. That's always a good sign. But there are new rules, and Lindy's basically going to admit that her man is setting all the rules and she's just abiding by them. What is this, some little woman shit? Here we go.

[Lindy West (via audio clips)]

We got back together. But part of that was, Aham was like, you know, I. I've been divorced twice by age 27, and I feel like possessiveness and jealousy had a lot to do with both of those relationships collapsing. And I want us to be not together because we're trapped and locked together in a prison of love.

[Maureen Callahan]

She knows this is bullshit. Her laughing. God, what I would give to have Mark Bowdoin here right now. She knows it's bullshit, what he's telling her. I've been married and divorced twice by age 27. He's telling her he cheated on both of his wives and he's not going to be able to be faithful. And this Jedi mind trick these guys are using, you know, don't you want to be cool enough to not be together? Because, like, we. We're. We're. We're, like, forced to be together. Then don't get married. Don't get married. Problem solved. Lindy, if you're going to position yourself as an intellectual in the culture, you got to explain this to me, sister. Why on earth would you get into a marriage with this guy? Why on earth would you enter something that is so easy to get into and so difficult to get out of? You want to divorce this guy? Guess who's walking away with half of your salary that you earned that whole marriage? Trust me, this guy's an artist. We've never heard of him. She. She's making what passes for money in that house, okay? And I'm not being a snob about it. I'm just being like, your artists, your creatives. You're Non conformist. I'm all for non conformists. Trust me. I went to art school. Do you know what I'm saying? This is just bullshit. So he's trying to brainwash her. No, we're too cool for regular marriage. We're going to have the kind of marriage that has us getting STD panels once a month. Sound fun? Okay, so she's going to try to convince us all that just like her morbid obesity, this is a very healthy choice for her. Very healthy. She's going to. She's. But she's really just trying to convince herself. Okay, you can hear it. You can hear it in her voice. We don't even need the visual. Aham. Marlena tells me the name is Ahom, which is like, it's. It's. It all sounds like cult. Like, right? Like, does this sound like something Jim Curtis would say to like, Jennifer Aniston? Aham. Aham. Center yourself. So in this, in this clip, we're gonna hear her talk about Aham. Asking her to be non monogamous. But really, this is an ultimatum. Any way you wanna slice it, dice it, present it on a platter, it's an alta fucking matem. Here we go.

[Lindy West (via audio clips)]

I worked at the Alt Weekly. Dan Savage was my boss. It just. It felt like everyone was supposed to do it or else. Like you were like a prude and a pioneer woman.

[Maureen Callahan]

Of course.

[Lindy West (via audio clips)]

And I was like, why do I have to do that? Just because all these cool kids think it's better. Like, why can't I make my own choices? So our initial conversation was a lot of me crying and being like, I don't want anyone else.

[Maureen Callahan]

Was it presented as sort of like, we can get back together if we are non monogamous? Was it like a conditional thing?

[Lindy West (via audio clips)]

Okay, basically, I think so. But it wasn't him saying, I'm gonna go out and date people. We're a couple who loves each other desperately getting back together. So this was not a moment when either of us was like, oh, I wanna go out and find someone else. We were ecstatic to be reuniting. So where we landed was if we wanna be together for the rest of our lives, who knows what's gonna happen in 10 years, 20 years, who we're gonna meet, how we're gonna feel.

[Maureen Callahan]

I'm totally confused by what she's saying. It doesn't. It doesn't make sense. If. If you guys are so ecstatic to be together, why does he need to other people? If you're so cool with it, why were you crying? When he said he was going to do it. And then why are we trying to patch over all of this by saying, I mean, who knows how we're not saying we're doing it now. Of course he went and did it right away. He was doing it the whole time. Trust me, trust me. But you know, that's not saying, who knows how we're gonna feel in 10 years or 20 years. Like, you know, people stray, hey, shit happens. This isn't that. This is a guy who is, who is saying to her, listen, this is what he's saying to her. Let's just cut to the bone, okay? You're never gonna be enough for me. I don't really love you. I'm not attracted to you. In order for me to make the severe compromise of being with you because you have such low self esteem, it's lower than the ocean floor. You will let me live off of you, live under your roof, eat food you pay for. She probably does his laundry, she cleans up the bathroom. You know it. You know it. The cost of doing business because you don't love yourself and you don't think you can get anybody else is you have to let me other people. And everybody's gonna know because we have to have an open marriage. And I'm gonna tell. This woman is telling on herself the whole time. You cannot. She is telling on herself the whole time. Now she's gonna talk about how she thought she had convinced herself that if. This is so sad, you guys, it's so sad, but like we're covering it not just because this is a sad, pathetic person person, because this is a lie. And there are young women who are going to listen to this and think there's some validity to what she's saying. And maybe their opinions are the ones that are the incorrect opinions. And maybe they're holding men to too high of a standard. Trust me, hold your men to the same standard. Like the way your dog treats you is the way your man should treat you. Okay? Lindy thought that if she could just be perfect enough, he wouldn't want to fuck anybody else. And I wish they would just talk about it in the crude terms a conversation like this deserves. Okay, let's stop calling it ethical non monogamy. Let's call it what it is around let's and let's just talk the terms. Are we using protection? Are we getting STD panels? Is your other partner fucking other people? How many people are you bringing into our marital bed? Every time you turn you put your head down on Pillows I paid for. Get out. Here we go.

[Lindy West (via audio clips)]

Like, I just need to be the best girlfriend so that he doesn't want this stupid thing anymore.

[Maureen Callahan]

This stupid thing that. She said it. She said it. I just have to be perfect. Honey, nobody's perfect. He should love you in spite of your imperfections. In fact, he should love you because you're not perfect. You're never going to win at that game. Why don't you get, like, Meghan Markle, stop being in the prove it game. I'm going to be Meghan Markle on Jamie Kern Lima's podcast. You know, I stopped playing the prove it game. I don't have to prove. Or what about if I just. If it's just. I just. I haven't gotten there yet. Yet. Lindy kept thinking that her worst nightmare, which would have been the best thing that ever could have happened to her. I promise her that. Because when you get rid of a bad guy, your life gets better exponentially. It's hard to know it in your bones when you're in it. When you're in it and you just want this to work out. But here she goes, trying to make sure he doesn't leave her.

[Lindy West (via audio clips)]

I was always dreading when was that time gonna come.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yep.

[Lindy West (via audio clips)]

So every time Aham initiated any kind of, like, really hard conversation, even if it was just like, you need to do the dishes right after you cook

[Maureen Callahan]

or whatever, you need to do the dishes right after you cook. Okay? So I'm right. We all know what this marriage is, okay? This guy doesn't bring in any money, and he comes home from doing whatever the he's doing all day and says to her, oh, you cooked. You know what? It's not enough that you bought the food that you with your money, because I don't contribute and you made the food, but now you better clean up as soon as, as soon as you're done cooking, you better clean, clean this kitchen up. Lindy gets some self respect. Here is how her husband practices quote unquote, ethical non monogamy, AKA other women. And she can't do a goddamn thing about it because her self esteem is on the floor. The moment you found out that Aham was dating someone else.

[Lindy West (via audio clips)]

2019. I'm recording my audiobook for my second book and I'm in Seattle. I had just gotten home from being away for six months and I get a text while I'm recording my audiobook. Don't know why I had my phone on. Shouldn't have done that. And I, I find out that someone who was a fan of mine, who knew what ahom looked like, had seen him kissing someone at a bar.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay, a couple of things. She says a fan of hers texted her. That's just a friend of hers. Lindy doesn't really have fans, you know, and if it was really a fan, like, how does she have your direct number? Like when she just sent hit you up with a dm? Secondly, she says she's recording her audiobook. That is a privilege. If you are an author and they let you record your audiobook, most times they hire actors to do it. So she says, I got up and left. She was right. She was very unprofessional to have her phone on. That phone should have been turned off and put somewhere else, like out of the studio, you know, and if there was a 91 1, then her engineers could let her know. Otherwise, your head is in that recording session. And she up and left her recording session. Do you know the expense of doing an audiobook for a publisher? They book studio time. They book engineers. You know, you get like two to three days to record the average book. You know, most books are about 80 to 100,000 words, couple hundred pages. She just cost people a lot of money because she couldn't deal with the marriage that she says she signed up for, that she was totally cool with. And every utterance in this fucking podcast, this modern love podcast, is of a very distraught, disturbed woman, okay? And where this interviewer is in not pushing back and just saying, hey, Lindy, you don't sound really cool with this. Most women wouldn't be. You want to have a baby with this guy and buy a house with him and. But you think that it. The problem is with you because you're unhappy that somebody. He's humiliating her now because he wasn't being open with her at all. As I said, he was already fucking doing it. Somebody caught him at a bar making out with another woman, but she's going to blame herself. Okay? We have to go through this because we have to push back on this shit. This is very toxic, dangerous messaging, especially for the generation coming up under this for. For young women, you guys who are at progressive schools, progressive colleges, you want to work in, like, you know, fringes. You want to work in the art world. The art world's full of guys like this. Trust me. Do not buy this line of. Here we go.

[Lindy West (via audio clips)]

I was very much like, is she prettier than me? Do you love her more than me? You know, do you guys laugh at me?

[Maureen Callahan]

Do you remember what he said to that question. Yeah.

[Lindy West (via audio clips)]

He said no. You know, he said, he said, she's a really good person and, and you're just different. And he was like, you're my wife. Like, I don't. I don't love anybody more than you.

[Maureen Callahan]

That's a lie. He's lying to you. She says. I said, do you make fun of me? Do you two make fun of me? And you'll see why when she asks about who exactly this woman is. And honey, if you think he's just got one extra woman, you are beyond deluded. Here we go.

[Lindy West (via audio clips)]

He told me that her name was Roya and she was one of the artistic directors of a venue in Portland that had put on one of his shows. So I actually met when they did the show there. And she was so nice. Like, I remember being her. I know she was like so small. She was like the tiniest little person. I am the biggest, loudest. Well, I'm not going to be self deprecating, but I'm tall and I'm big and I take up a lot of space and energy. And she was just like a tiny little beautiful. She's like kind of goth, you know?

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah.

[Lindy West (via audio clips)]

Meanwhile, I'm like, I kind of dress like a clown.

[Maureen Callahan]

Let's take a look at the girlfriend. Here is a photo of Lindy with Aham and the girlfriend. The girlfriend's on the right. Lindy. It can't be both. He can't be attracted to the both of you. You both look nothing alike. She is your polar opposite. She looks like an elf. He's using you. He's using you for your very minor fame and all the things that you do for him. He is spending time, he's taking time from you and your relationship with him, your ostensible relationship with him. And he's spending your money, doubtless your money at this point to travel to see her at least once a month. So he's literally leaving your house, where I'm sure you pay all the bills, to go hang out with his girlfriend who objectively it's. He finds more attractive. But Lindy's going to tell us that she had a moment of self actualization amidst this misery that is the life she has constructed for herself. And make no mistake, she's not a passive victim here. She's not. She needs a lot of therapy. A lot of therapy. Here she is on her. We'll call it what Oprah would call it. It's her aha moment. You're not going to believe it. You're not going to I didn't believe it when I heard this. I had to play it back twice. Here we go.

[Lindy West (via audio clips)]

I bet Aham sent me like a sexy underwear pic of Roya with her consent because I think they were talking about me also because that's if you want to get me, if you say we've been talking about you. Oh boy.

[Maureen Callahan]

In a good way.

[Lindy West (via audio clips)]

In a good way.

[Rob Shooter]

In a good way.

[Lindy West (via audio clips)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I, because I definitely remember him saying like, Roy and I have been talking about you a lot. So I, I, I, I'm sure he sent me like a cute pic of Roya being cute and I was like, okay, you can tell her that that's a beautiful photo or whatever. I'm such a dork. You may tell her that that is a beautiful photo.

[Maureen Callahan]

I mean that's a way to sext. It's formal, but I'd say it works.

[Lindy West (via audio clips)]

Yeah. Side note, Lindy was absolutely incapable of sexting. But so then I'm like also throughout this, I'm reconnecting with Aham. I think in, in certain ways too. Like it's fun to have like a long distance boyfriend that you can have flirty texts with.

[Maureen Callahan]

I don't think it gets much more aggressive than him sending his wife a sexting photo of the woman he's actually really happily having sex with and a relationship with. And, and, and says to you, oh, we talk about you a lot. She should be the most important person in his life and the relationship that he guards with the utmost ferocity. And she should have absolute trust that he would never betray her or talk about her in any way that she would not be okay with were she in that room. And she should have no business in that room because he should, he should have really no business carrying on his ethical non monogamy. And now, now they all live together in a cabin in Washington state, doubtless paid for by Lindy. And trust me when I tell you this is going to end either in divorce and he's going to marry the new girl or he's going to get her pregnant. That's going to, that's the sadistic thing. That's what's coming for you next, Lindy. He's going to knock her up. And you know what he's going to say? I wouldn't want you to have to carry a baby with all that weight on you. Lindy, get yourself out of this and stop trying to listen. You want this for yourself, you hate yourself that much, fine. But you and the New York Times should be fucking ashamed that you're trying to convince other women that this is a good, valid life choice for them. That is prepping us for Lena. She's coming up, you guys. You know it. And that does it. That does it for our Friday edition of the Nerve. Come back and see us tomorrow for the Mini that drops on YouTube at 10am Eastern Saturday mornings. If you haven't already, check out our [e-mail] Be sure to subscribe and grab some Nerve merch. Pick something up for yourself or fellow traveler slash [e-mail] We've got some new merch on the way and we will see you tomorrow for our Mini and then again next week right here at the Nerve, where you will never guess what we're about to say next. Day or night. VRBoCare is here 24? 7 to help make every part of your stay seamless. If anything comes up or you simply need a little guidance, support is ready whenever you reach out. From the moment you book to the moment you head home. We're here to help things run smoothly because a great trip starts with the right support. And hey, a good playlist doesn't hurt either.

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