Meghan Markle Pushes Harry Aside, Anne Hathaway Stalling "DWP3," & Vanity Fair's Downward Spiral

Summary

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The Nerve with Maureen Callahan

Episode: Meghan Markle Pushes Harry Aside, Anne Hathaway Stalling "DWP3," & Vanity Fair's Downward Spiral

Date: May 20, 2026
Host: Maureen Callahan
Guest: Rob Shooter

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Overview

On this episode of The Nerve, Maureen Callahan dives into the latest in pop culture scandals, celebrity maneuvering, and the state of legacy media, with frequent collaborator and celebrity journalist Rob Shooter. The two dissect Meghan Markle’s solo ambitions, Anne Hathaway’s hesitation over “The Devil Wears Prada 3,” the corporate fantasy of GOOP, and Vanity Fair’s identity crisis—all with irreverence, skepticism, and a gossipy, behind-the-curtain candor.

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Key Discussion Points

Meghan Markle Pushes Harry Aside

[05:21-14:42]

• Unannounced Geneva Trip: Meghan appeared solo in Geneva, with organizers ready to accommodate Harry, but Meghan reportedly insisted, “This was her moment” ([05:58] Rob Shooter).
• Stepping Away from the 'Duo' Brand: Rob suggests Meghan and Harry’s joint brand hasn’t worked and Meghan is positioning herself to go solo:

  “She now believes she is more powerful... by stepping forward by herself, not with him.” ([07:00] Rob Shooter)

• Meghan’s Speech — Familiar Tone: Maureen draws a parallel between Meghan’s speech and Greta Thunberg's signature “How dare you?” moment ([08:54] Maureen), with Rob quipping:

  “If there was plagiarism in sound bites, we just found it.” ([09:20] Rob Shooter)

• Optics and Hypocrisy: Meghan’s Instagram post—showing luxury surroundings, an Armani coat, and daughter Lilibet—was called “tone deaf” and “vulgar” by both hosts ([11:53], [15:01]).
  • Maureen:

    “Her daughter's just another servant for the royal, for the duchess.” ([11:53] Maureen Callahan)

  • Rob:

    “It’s a Kardashian picture, isn’t it?... So vulgar.” ([15:01] Rob Shooter)

• Power Dynamic: Both agree Meghan sacrificed her true influence by leaving the royal family, with Rob adding:

  “All her power came from being part of that family. ...It’s the job, stupid. It’s not you.” ([10:53] Rob Shooter)

Met Gala Fatigue & Celebrity Overexposure

[16:02-17:26]

• Rob’s scoop: insiders fear the Met Gala’s current formula is “too much noise, too much desperation”; the event is losing cachet and may see dramatic change in 2027.

  “It was a parade of some of the most disgusting people in the world looking like clowns. It isn’t fashion anymore. It’s just silly.” ([16:51] Rob Shooter)

Anne Hathaway’s “DWP3” Standoff

[17:26-22:13]

• Hathaway Pumping the Brakes: Anne Hathaway is stalling on “Devil Wears Prada 3,” not for cash, but for fear of overexposure after her infamous “Hathahate” period.
• Sincerity Police: Both recall Hathaway’s 2013 Oscar campaign as “affected” and discuss the difference between being disliked for doing too much vs. for being inauthentic ([18:50] Rob Shooter).
• Rob on Celebrity Self-Awareness:

  “She got canceled because she was annoying and she doesn't want to be in that position again. ...It’s a lesson Meghan should learn.” ([19:10]-[21:00] Rob Shooter)

GOOP, Gwyneth, and the Mirage of Celebrity Businesses

[24:43-29:38]

• Layoffs and No Profits: GOOP reportedly never turned a profit, despite Gwyneth Paltrow’s relentless self-branding as a mogul. Frequent layoffs, pivots to AI, and media fawning keep the illusion alive.

  “This is like a Ponzi scheme. ...It’s all hype.” ([25:49] Rob Shooter)

• The Media Enables It: Rob recounts how celebrity “wealth” and ventures are often fabricated for press with no fact-checking, comparing GOOP to other celebrity “businesses” ([26:33]-[29:38]).

  “It’s amazing how far you can go. ...If you or I said that, we'd have fact checkers at the gazoo. When a celebrity says it, reporters are like, 'Oh wow, that sounds great.'” ([26:33] Rob Shooter)

• Vanity Fair’s Complicity: Maureen and Rob lament that celebrity press often acts as “stenographers” ([28:54]-[29:38]), trading in lies and PR narratives over truth.

Vanity Fair’s Downward Spiral

[30:01-36:22]

• VF is reporting a 55% traffic collapse; layoffs, blame game, and editorial malaise rule.

  “At Conde Nast, a collapse this big instantly turns into a blame game.” ([32:06] Maureen Callahan)

• Both recall the magazine’s heyday (Tina Brown, Graydon Carter), and bemoan its current drift toward “woke” covers, boring content, and clubby, self-important editorial voices.
  • Maureen:

    “They pushed Graydon out. He was too expensive. ...I think that really was the death knell.” ([32:06] Maureen Callahan)

  • Rob:

    “It was a gossip mag. ...Tina Brown invented the gossip mag in America.” ([33:53] Rob Shooter)

• Media Insularity: Despite being profiled, Rob says, “Not a single person ... called me to say I saw you in Vanity Fair.” ([36:39] Rob Shooter)

Chelsea Handler’s Hollywood Hypocrisy

[37:34-41:11]

• Handler’s #MeToo Crusader Persona: Rob exposes Handler’s history of dining with Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein, undercutting her “vigilante for women” shtick ([38:33]).

  “She got away with murder because she was sleeping with the boss.” ([39:05] Rob Shooter)

• Handler vs. Joan Rivers: Joan despised Handler for her behavior at E!; Rob shares an anecdote of Handler’s rudeness ([39:05] Rob Shooter).
• Wider Pattern: Maureen and Rob both rip into the feminist rebranding of women like Handler and Katie Couric, who attended Epstein events or benefited from toxic industry power, only to later feign ignorance and outrage ([40:22] Maureen Callahan).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Meghan Alone in Geneva:
  “This was her moment.” ([05:58] Rob Shooter)
• On Meghan’s Strategy:
  “She now believes that she is more powerful... by stepping forward by herself, not with [Harry].” ([07:00] Rob Shooter)
• On Meghan’s Instagram Post:
  “It’s a Kardashian picture, isn’t it?... So vulgar.” ([15:01] Rob Shooter)
• On Celebrity Businesses:
  “This is like a Ponzi scheme... It’s all hype. These celebrities have learned.” ([25:49] Rob Shooter)
• On Vanity Fair’s Identity Crisis:
  “It was a gossip mag. ...Tina Brown invented the gossip mag in America with Vanity Fair and then Graydon refined it.” ([33:53] Rob Shooter)
• On Chelsea Handler & Hollywood:
  “She got away with murder because she was sleeping with the boss.” ([39:05] Rob Shooter)
• On Industry Self-Delusion:
  “It’s a character that they play. ...Being a business person for celebrities ... is like another character they’re playing in a movie. It’s just make believe. ...When you look at the business, it’s all smoke and mirror.” ([31:39] Rob Shooter)

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Additional Segments

Troublemaker Feedback & Art

[44:09-57:00]

• Listener mail spans from critiques of Stephen Colbert’s self-important late-night roundtables to Amanda Knox’s post-prison demeanor and the enduring fascination with Real Housewives drama.
• Featured: Art from Paul & Pam of New Zealand, celebrating the “Bondi Beach Troublemaker” who stood her ground against a Meghan & Harry spectacle.
• Reflections on celebrity egos, true crime, and the need for resistance in culture.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Meghan Markle in Geneva & Speech Analysis: [05:21]-[14:42]
• Met Gala Fatigue: [16:02]-[17:26]
• Anne Hathaway & “DWP3” Dispute: [17:26]-[22:13]
• GOOP, Gwyneth, and Celebrity Business Myths: [24:43]-[29:38]
• Vanity Fair’s Decline: [30:01]-[36:22]
• Chelsea Handler’s Hollywood Hypocrisy: [37:34]-[41:11]
• Troublemaker Feedback & Listener Art: [44:09]-[57:00]

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Tone & Style

• Irreverent, skeptical, and punchy: Hosts and guests gleefully call out celebrity hypocrisy and media failings, spinning snarky asides with genuine behind-the-scenes knowledge.
• Insider anecdotes and exclusives: Rob’s industry recollections punctuate the commentary, pulling back the curtain on PR fabrication and reputational smoke and mirrors.
• Audience engagement: Listener comments are handled with humor, validation, and occasional rants against the cultural figureheads or trends under scrutiny.

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Summary

Maureen Callahan and Rob Shooter unspool the tangled narratives of celebrity and media, exposing power plays, vanity, and the hollow spectacle behind supposed substance. From Meghan Markle's solo ambitions and Anne Hathaway’s image trouble, to the crumbling facades of GOOP and Vanity Fair, nothing is sacred and everything gets the Nerve’s unfiltered treatment. Listener feedback further animates the podcast’s combative, communal tone, underscoring their mission of truth, troublemaking, and cultural resistance.

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Transcript

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[Maureen Callahan]

Hello and welcome to the Nerve at Night. I am your host Maureen Callahan. We've got a great show for you today. A great show. We begin with the one and only Rob Shooter. He has a ton of exclusive reporting on everyone from the Duchess of Darkness and Endless Despair and Grievance Meghan Markle to offenders. We have not really yet covered Anne Hathaway. Is she holding up the devil wears Prada? 3 Rob says yes and he's going to tell us why Chelsea Handler was she having dinner with some of the most evil figures in modern history? Yes, he's going to tell us all. GW Brainchild Goop hemorrhaging staff. It's in trouble. Also in crisis. Vanity Fair, what's going on and how Vanity Fair did our beloved Rob dirty. And we've got a new candidate for the nerves Woodshed. It's a great segment. It's a great segment. And then of course we weren't able to get to it yesterday because our show ran long, but we've got a stack of troublemaker feedback and a piece of art from Paul from New Zealand for the ages. So are you ready? Are you ready? Let's go. This one is for our female troublemakers. Ladies, are you having trouble sleeping through the night, thinking clearly, or just feeling like yourself? Well, Biologica makes a drinkable daily supplement that goes beyond a multivitamin. It combines vitamins, minerals, probiotics, electrolytes, and clinically researched botanicals in one easy drink so you're not juggling pills in the morning. It's an effervescent powder that you mix with water. It tastes great and it's easy to remember daily. It's also made with clean ingredients, no added sugars, and it's developed alongside women's health experts. What really sets Biologica apart is that it's designed for different hormonal life stages. Primary Essentials supports women in their reproductive years. Midlife Essentials supports women navigating perimenopause post menopause. Essentials supports women in post menopause. So you can choose what's right for your body right now. Head to biologica.com nerve to get started. Take their quick Hormonal Life stage quiz. You will find the formula that's right for you. And right now, subscribers can receive up to 32% off your first purchase. Again, make sure to go to biologica.com nerve and get up to 32% off your first subscription order today. Joining us now, celebrity reporter extraordinaire, author of the Must subscribe substack, Naughty But Nice. And bestselling author of the debut novel, It Started with a whisper. It is your ultimate beach read. None other than our friend, Rob Shooter.

[Rob Shooter]

Hey, my friends. How are you? Good to see you. I just signed a ton of books for for some of your lucky readers. I'm excited to get them into the troublemaker's hands.

[Maureen Callahan]

We are so excited, too. You know, we were the. The competition was top five celebrity scandals of all time. To win a signed copy, we got so many incredible, incredible submissions, we had to up it to 10. So happy to do it.

[Rob Shooter]

Happy to do it.

[Maureen Callahan]

Embarrassment of riches. And you're so gracious as always. Okay, first we need to discuss Rob. Meghan Markle went to Geneva this week. Over the weekend, it was unannounced. And then she just surprised us all. Weren't we just so excited to see this? She was speaking about. Well, we'll show a little Bit about what the ostensible reason for being there was. But your exclusive, Rob. Meghan Markle didn't want Prince Harry in Geneva. Insiders say, quote, unquote, this was her moment. Rob.

[Rob Shooter]

Yeah, absolutely. So she popped up in Geneva. She was welcome to take Harry. The organizers of this event, the people that flew her in free of charge, may I add, were happy to get an extra ticket to fly Harry in. They wouldn't have to get an extra hotel room. So they invited both of them. Meghan was going to speak, but you can bring a plus one when you invite a celebrity, if you invite Julia Roberts, you've also got a fly in a, a hair and makeup team, her assistant, her manager. So these organizations, it sounds like it's a big deal. It's not. If Harry wanted to go, then he could have gone and they would have loved to have had him. Meghan put a foot down and said, no, this is my moment and we're going to see more of this. Their brand as a couple has not worked, and Meghan now is getting ready to really branch off. And she sees this moment as an opportunity to step on the world stage without Harry. The one thing I will say in her defense, if you allow me. It's tricky because I don't often defend Meghan Markle, is that whatever she is with Harry, all the royal drama comes up, all the stuff about him and his family and his brother and his dad. And so it's impossible for her to divorce herself from that story. But I think she wanted the optics here of her standing there talking about her children, which she does share with him, so he could have been part of this message. But Megan now has decided that. I think my sources are telling me she now believes that she is more powerful. She's gonna make more money by stepping forward by herself, not with him. Even she now acknowledges that Harry is a problem. She's a problem, too. She hasn't quite got to that point, but she knows there's a problem with power.

[Maureen Callahan]

I think she's decided Harry's a loss leader, he's a loser. She's not the problem. He's the problem. And you know, to your generous defense of her, I would say this is what happens when you marry into the most famous royal family on the planet, when you position yourself in opposition to stead said royal family and try to destroy them. Just my opinion that the questions will follow.

[Rob Shooter]

Yes, it's a good point. I love it when you roll your eyes. Okay, right.

[Maureen Callahan]

We have to get. We have to show a Bit of Meghan Markle's speech so that we all know the ostensible reason for her being here. And by the way, not for nothing, this was on the heels of her posting an image of herself with her daughter to Instagram. Here we go.

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[Maureen Callahan]

Okay, Rob, I set this up because I wanted to show you what Megan's speech, who it reminded me of. We're going to take a look at this, and then you tell me what you think, if I'm crazy or not. Here we go. How dare you? You have stolen my dreams and my childhood with your empty words. And yet I'm one of the lucky ones.

[Rob Shooter]

You are. Your research department over at the Nerve is second to nobody. It's the same sound bite. If there was plagiarism in sound bites, we just found it. Yeah, it does feel like that, doesn't it? The problem is, is that nothing Meghan's going to say, or really anybody else is going to say at this type of convention makes a dam of difference. Nobody in social media, nobody in AI is going to suddenly decide, oh, my goodness, she's absolutely right. You convinced me. And so. So it's going to make no difference. And I also would guess, guess here, that young people are not going to look back and say, this is a terrible moment. Young people love social media. There's always a horror story, and I hate them, and we shouldn't downplay them. But a lot of young people that I see that I know, and I don't know that many are always on their phones. They're on the phones much more than I am. My nieces, my nephews, they absolutely love this new media. They think they don't want to go back to watching TV or reading newspapers. They get all their information here, so it feels. It feels like a dinosaur. It feels like Meghan is complaining about something that isn't going to change. And if she wants to make it better, then she's going to have to do it within the system. Nobody's going to suddenly decide that we're going to cancel Instagram because Meghan Markle doesn't like it. And just. You did this in the setup. So. Well, the day before, 24 hours before, she took to social media. And what did she post? A picture of her daughter. It's just so tone death, like, whatever. And I think I might have this a little bit more than you, my friend. But whenever she pulls at my heartstrings, like whenever I just feel a little bit like, wow, maybe this is a good. She just shoots herself in the foot. And so it's very difficult to take anything she, she say seriously. But can you imagine, just for one minute, can you imagine if she'd made that speech and she was still a member of the royal family? It would have had so much more power. Can you imagine if Kate Middleton had made that speech? It would have so much more power. Megan has given away, ran away, destroyed a trump card. All her power came from being part of that family. It's a complicated family, but that was her power base and she gave it up. And she doesn't realize that without the blessing of the crown, without that job, I've had jobs where I was really powerful and the minute I left the job, nobody cared about me. It's the job, stupid. It's not you. And she, she walked away from that job.

[Maureen Callahan]

You know, to your point, first with that Instagram post, if you're listening and you haven't had a chance to see it, there's. There's so much vulgarity in that post. First of all, it's from the inside of her walk in closet that has been built out with like expensive woods. This isn't a California closets install, okay? This is a custom, super, super expensive job. Secondly, she makes sure that in the right hand foreground, you see that she's got her Giorgio Armani expensive coat hung up, you know, Then there's her daughter at her hem, like kneel down at her hem, like her daughter's just another servant for, for the royal, for the duchess. And fourth, to your point, you know, this speech about the children and social media and it. She's so far behind. I thought it was no accident. You know, Kate had a major, major winner. Her first trip on her own since the cancer diagnosis to Italy. She spent a lot of time with small children. Those were the photo ops. One of her causes is early childhood education. And I thought, no mistake, that Megan felt that she had to interject and make it clear that the children of the world don't belong to Kate Middleton. She's so sick. My opinion.

[Rob Shooter]

Yeah, you're absolutely right there. I made that comparison immediately. And having a daughter bowing down to her, it's so ugly. But let me remind Megan here, my British royal history serves me right. I think a princess trumps a duchess. So Meghan should actually be kneeling down to her daughter here. And so that's that. That made me chuckle a little bit. The Kate stuff, too. She's just playing in a league that she's not going to win in. Kate is the Princess of Wales. You're not going to beat that. Meghan. So trying to one up Kate in these moments. A, you're not going to win and B, it just looks so silly and so desperate. I'd have more respect if she just gave this up. I don't want to do this. I don't want to be a royal. I want to be an actress. I want to sell stuff. Like, she wants it both ways here. And I think the public is getting very, very weary of it. I surprised, though, if she hadn't posted that picture of her daughter 24 hours before she talked about children and social media, I don't think this would have got a lot of coverage. It feels to me, Maureen, as if the tide is turning a little bit. I just noticed on my own substack, we, we all obsess about the, the. How many people open our emails and how many people read the stories. My trend on medium recently, it's going down. People are less and less interested in Meghan Markle. She becomes more and more dull.

[Maureen Callahan]

You know, the Armani coat also reminded me Armani died not too long ago. You and I talked about this. I think this was your exclusive. That was yet another event which she considers an event Meghan Markle tried to get herself invited to. She asked, hey, can I come to Giorgio Armani's funeral? And the answer was a hard no.

[Rob Shooter]

It's not hard. It's a hard. I didn't realize there is something so vulgar about that picture. I was so busy, Maureen, staring at the red hair of Lilibet. I want to see if she had red hair. So I was just fascinated by that. But if I, if I pull back and look at that photograph, it's a Kardashian picture, isn't it? It's a real housewife picture. It's a picture of. Look at all my Hermes bags. Look at how wealthy I. It's so, so vulgar. And I don't want to. I don't want your daughter to be in that world either. And I think, honestly, a much better lesson to show your kids is instead, instead of talking about the evils of social media to talk about growing up in these houses where you've got 20 Hermes bags and 20 Armani coats. And I think a lot of damage to the kids is coming from within that house for them to grow up when there's so much luxury so exploited, there's so much Luxury on display. Display. I think, you know, you could make an argument that that is. Is just as damaging.

[Maureen Callahan]

I couldn't agree with you more. And, you know, where are their cousins? Where are their friends? Where's their grandfather? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The nerve moves, the culture. Rob, you do. You're exclusive. In the aftermath of out of the Nerves, Met Gala slash Pet Gala live stream. Teddy Van Halen is taking a break from his investigations on my lap at the moment. You're exclusive that the 2027 Met Gala will look nothing like the one we just lived through. I'm quoting your reporting. There is a real feeling internally that the Met Gala has reached a breaking point. One insider says too many celebrities, too much noise, too much desperation to go viral. People are finally admitting the formula no longer works.

[Rob Shooter]

Yeah, it doesn't. We felt it, didn't we? We felt it on your. On your set. There was something really off about it. It was a parade of some of the most disgusting people in the world looking like clowns. It isn't fashion anymore. It's just silly. I think that celebrities now are trying to look more ridiculous to get more headlines. And so. Excuse me. I think that there needs to be a reset. We said ultimately here, though, it. Vogue is not worth what it once was. So they've got to rethink this through and figure out what they're going to do.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay, two related items which I found fascinating. You've got exclusive reporting that Anne Hathaway is holding up The Devil Wears Prada 3. Obviously, there's going to be a third that this. This thing is such a blockbuster. Your quote from your insider. This isn't about money for Anne. She's incredibly protective of her career and very aware of how quickly audiences can turn when they feel someone is overexposed. Now, Ann's got, like, five movies coming out. She's in the Odyssey, which is about to come out. Okay, so that's two major summer blockbusters that she's in. But this is what. This is what I think hurdled the public against Anne when she won that Oscar in 2013 for her performance, which she campaigned hard for. She went hard in the paint to get that Oscar, and it resulted in a period, as you write, of public criticism so relentless, it became known online as half a hate. Okay, let's look at this, and then you and I are going to talk about came true. Oh, winning the Oscar and this. It's so affected. It's so rehearsed. It's so like, oh, it came true. She's like 50 there,

[Rob Shooter]

right? There's an inauthentic quality to Ann. And Anne's mistaking overexposure with people not liking what they see. And there is a difference. Everybody, you know, the car dashes are overexposed and we can't get enough. We just want more.

[Maureen Callahan]

Speak for yourself.

[Rob Shooter]

The love is overexposed that I can't get enough of you, my friend. So there is like, we do like. We like what we like. And I think that's so great about Americans. Excess is part of being an American. And so what the difference is here is Anne doesn't want to admit that it wasn't that she was doing too much. It's what she was doing. People didn't like. I think they smelt a phony baloney. However, the lesson that she's taught herself here is that she was almost canceled for just being annoying. And she knows that. And she's learned that lesson. And it's very rare. It's very rare that a celebrity ever learns from. From history, from the past, even their own past. And even though I think she's slightly askew here, it's not necessarily the amount of press it was the type of things she was saying that both people. She's onto something here. She has a lot of projects coming up. I think she's already over committed to stuff. She knows what it's like to just be in people's faces too much, particularly when you're an annoying person. And it's a skill that I think we should all learn. I'm a much better second banana than I am as a host. Like, I thoroughly enjoy coming on your show as a guest. I couldn't do what you do. People would listen. I'd be too annoyed. And hasn't yet figured that out. But she does know that a little divan goes a very long way. It's a lesson Meghan should learn and many, many other celebrities. So I actually tip my hat to Anne Hathaway here. I never thought I'd use that. That expression, but I actually think she's onto something. And two, let's be honest, the devil wear Prada 2 made a ton of money. A lot of money. It's not very good. It's. It's not as good as the first one. The third one's not good. It's going to be worse. It's like the Sex and the City movies. It's just the cash. And at the moment, neither. And Meryl and Emily want the money. They're like, sign us up, we'll do it. Meryl's got nothing to prove to anybody at this point and it's resisting it here. Normally when this happens, Maureen, I'm normally suspicious. And the first question I ask is, oh, they're just holding out for more cash. This is like, you know, when celebrities are, I don't know if I want to go back to that job and I'm not sure I'm going to return to the NFL. Tom Brady, I'm not sure. They just want more money. Whatever. There's somebody's contract is up for negotiation. On a morning show. They always leak to the press. Oh, they're ready to move on. Kelly Ripper does this every time a contract. She's had enough. She's ready to move on. They're not. They just are negotiating more money. So I thought that with Ann and I really pushed my sources hard and I was like, is she just being a really brilliant business person? And they said, no, she knows what it feels like. She got canceled because she was annoying and she doesn't want to be in that position again. Ironically, as you said, she might be in it just from the sheer volume of movies, big movies, blockbusters that she has coming out soon.

[Maureen Callahan]

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[Maureen Callahan]

in the culture. But who has has has made annoying her brand and made it redound to her benefit. She could teach this at Harvard Business School. Trust me. TMZ Gwyneth Paltrow Layoffs reported at GOOP in pivot to AI it was a massacre over there. This was published on May 13 and this is not the first time GOOP has laid off a huge amount of people. They reportedly laid off 18% of their workforce back in 2024. You know, Rob, again, this is, this is, this is the smoke and mirrors that we always talk about. What you would have to read the financial pages to know this. Goop has never turned a profit. She's been on Shark Tank. Like she's a super successful entrepreneur. It has yet to make money. I don't know how many rounds of like capital raising they've done, how many series as they would call it. But it's amazing to me that this brand stays aloft based on what her star power.

[Rob Shooter]

Yeah, this is like a Ponzi scheme. It's so odd. There are a lot of companies out there like this. I used to work for the Huffington Post and it never made a dollar. Ariana sold it for I think two, $300 million to AOL and it never ever was was financially successful. It's the hype, isn't it? It's the hype. And this is what celebrities can do very, very well. They can hype stuff up. And then Kevin Hart's company, one of the most successful comedians in the world, that has had layoffs too.

[Maureen Callahan]

And so I didn't know that Kevin

[Rob Shooter]

Hart's company is in trouble. And so they've just also.

[Maureen Callahan]

He's another one. He's also been on Shark Tank and sells himself. I'm a successful businessman. I'm not.

[Rob Shooter]

These celebrities have learned. You know, I let you in on a little secret here. When I was working with Diddy, if you pardon the expression, 20, 20 years ago, the. It was a huge magic. Forbes, Forbes magazine were doing their. Their richest list and Diddy wanted to be on the list. And I called up Forbes and they were like, sure, we'd love to have Diddy on the list. What does he worth? And I called Puff and we just made up a number and they printed it. And so it was never what was the number. And I think a billion like Puffy's bold that you might fracture. When I worked with Paris Hilton, I convinced Vanity Fair or it was maybe the New York Times to put her in the business section. And the headline was Paris Inc. And then she talked about all these things she was developing. She made them all up. She was going to open hotels, she was going to open yachts. And so a lot of the spin of celebrities is taken at face value. If you or I said that, we'd have fact checkers at the gazoo. When a celebrity says it. When Paris announces she's gonna like debut 20 boutique hotels around the country, reporters are like, oh, wow, that sounds great. Never when she's gonna launch an airline. Diddy, worth a billion dollars. We just made it up. And it's amazing how far you can go. Some people argue this is what Bethany Frankel has done with that skinny girl. She pulled a figure. I think it was $100 million she made, which made her more money in one year than Beyonce. Like, it just doesn't add up. Let me tell you how you know if a celebrity is rich or not. When, when you go to the house, just like you and me, their biggest expenditure is where they live, their home, not their car where they live. And like when you go, I went to Sting's apartment once. I used to work with Trudy Steiner, his wife. It is F you money. Stanley lives in a duplex on Central Park. Now when you go to other celebrities apartments, including Diddy's, it's a little run down. It wasn't quite as nice as it should be, which is always a sign that they're not quite worth as much money. So Gwyneth has had this magical spell over the media and the public. The goop is Martha Stewart. The goop is this wonderful American brand. It's not Never made a dollar.

[Maureen Callahan]

It's just incredible. It's just. I just love what you said about Diddy and Paris Hilton and making up these monies and these, you know, business projects they've got going on. And it's, it says to me it's related as to why the Access Hollywoods of the world are dying. The E. Newss of the world are dying. It's because they are stenographers. They're court stenographers. And they don't do the fact checking. But we at the Nerve are like, let's pull back the curtain and talk about what's really going on. These people are selling you a false good. And it's not just the products. It's there. It's themselves as successful, as multi dimensional. It's a lot. It's all a lie. It's all a lie.

[Rob Shooter]

Yeah, it's a character that they play. When I worked with Jessica Simpson, somebody reported, I think it was Forbes, that she was worth a billion dollars. Just insanity. Not even close. Nowhere near that. And so I was just shocked when I opened up a really, quote, respectable. And I had this struggle recently. Vanity Fair recently did a profile on

[Maureen Callahan]

me and it was so good.

[Rob Shooter]

It was. But there was a little bit of snark in there and a little bit looking down their nose and a little bit like, oh, he doesn't fact check. And I reminded the reporter from Vanity Fair, but there were three mistakes in his story about me, including what we had to drink. He said we were drinking wine. We weren't drinking wine. He had a beer and I had a vodka soda. And so like, you can just be such snobs about this. Where I think as independent journalists, people with that podcast, if I want the truth, I go to places like this. I no longer go to the Vanity Fairs. I no longer go go to the New York Times. And it's because they are stenographers. I've got to remember that word, Maureen. It's such a good word. That's who they are. They're so beguiled by celebrity and they still are intoxicated by Gwyneth. And then when Gwyneth. Vanity Fair was working on an expose of Gwyneth and they killed it.

[Maureen Callahan]

I know the reporter was working on it. And she's a great journalist, a great reporter. Vanessa Gregoriotis. I used to work with her at New York Magazine. And Gwyneth called Graydon and said whatever she said, I think, which was basically like, I have kids. You have kids, Will you kill it? You know, I hope Vanessa's got it in her archives and it somehow works its way over to the Nerve or over the Naughty but Nice. But they were working on a real expose of Gwyneth and I think a lot of it went to perhaps, you know, there's a, there's, there is a lot about Gwyneth that, you know, she does. She's interested in presenting herself as fundamentally one way. And.

[Rob Shooter]

Yeah, just quickly, I hope this makes sense too. Being a business person for celebrities who have started brands is like another character they're playing in a movie. It's just make believe. It's cosplay. Today. I'm gonna pretend to be a business person and they fool us. But when you actually look at the business, when you really look at the business, it's all smoke and mirror. It doesn't really exist.

[Maureen Callahan]

Exactly. Now, to your point, you had another great piece, and I love this because you and I are people who grew up on magazines, who love magazines, who love the glamour of them and what, you know, getting a Vanity Fair back in the Tina days, the Graydon days, it was an event. You would set aside time to luxuriate in the pages or getting on an airplane. It's your first read. It was such a great mix. And now, now, Rob, you're reporting it's in crisis as traffic collapses by 55%. You're reporting a media insider telling Rob, for naughty but nice, these numbers are catastrophic. At Conde Nast, a collapse this big instantly turns into a blame game. The eic, Mark Giudice again hand picked by Anna Wintour. You write his flashy reinvention stripped Vanity Fair of the very thing that made it powerful Hollywood gossip. He's interested in chasing a younger, fashion heavy, social media obsessed audience. I will tell you, Rob, what I think really killed Vanity Fair. They pushed Graydon out. He was too expensive. They, they hired a woman again, another Ana pick. She came from, like a literary publication. She was not in the world of fashion, tabloid journalism, celebrity journalism, business journalism. She wokeified was, it was, it was Vanity Fair for, you know, the George Floyd era. And her first cover was aggressively awful. It was really, really unattractive and it was a marginal figure. And I think that really was the death knell. And I just think there's no reviving it.

[Rob Shooter]

I don't think there is unless a real special person comes around. You know, when Tina Brown turns up, she's extraordinary. I follow her on substack and her language and the way that she really embraces the high and the low in a Similar way that you do in your reporting. It's just delicious and there's no snob value there. You don't hold your nose. You don't look down your nose when somebody's telling you something delicious. You listen. You fact check it and you do. You listen. And if the person telling me that happens to be famous, that doesn't make it any more important. And that's what Vanity Fair seems to have done. That the pendulum has swung to the point where these really, really vappy people are now running the show and looking down their nose at us. I used to giggle with Vanity Fair. It was what you and I do with better lighting. It was what you and I do with bigger budgets. But it was a gossip mag. It was a really naughty gossip bag. They talk about Us Weekly or the National Enquirer. Tina Brown invented the gossip bag in America with Vanity Fair and then Graydon refined it. But they were always just. Just being cheeky and funny and naughty. And they were not snobs about it. If they could find a story in. In the lowest place, they would do it. And they often, too, found the tabloid deliciousness in the highest places. You know, the British Royal family is a tabloid dream. They happen to be royals. In the stratosphere of social structure, I don't think it gets any higher than a king or a queen. However, reporters like us, journalists like us, columnists like us, know that it's within those circles that you find the most petty, the most tabloid, the most delicious stories and the most depraved.

[Maureen Callahan]

The most depraved. That level of power and money, you're looking for a dopamine hit for the ages. No surprise there's a Prince Andrew in that fold.

[Rob Shooter]

Absolutely. And. And that's where we dig. Holding power to accountability is really, really fun. And Vanity Fair doesn't do that anymore. They make fun of reality stars. They look down their nose at people they don't think are part of their group, as if their group was appointed by. By God or someone higher up. And it's actually by looking at people in power. That's where real great journalism comes from.

[Maureen Callahan]

I couldn't agree with you more. As you were saying it, that was exactly what I was thinking. The whole thing with Vanity Fair now and these, these publications that are dying, they're just dying. The prognosis is terminal. They're in the club. We're not in the club.

[Rob Shooter]

We're not.

[Maureen Callahan]

Knew each other.

[Rob Shooter]

Yeah. That was so evident when I sat down for drinks to do this profile piece. I'm sure they'll delete it from the magazine after this. But this is my, this is my. They should keep it. And the biggest insult I. I could throw at them. I'm not going to argue about their fact checking or they got things wrong or they, they, they were literally condescending through the whole story. What. The part that really hurt them is not a single person and I have friends in all different walks of life, not one person called me to say I saw you in Vanity Fair. In fact, until I actually posted a picture of me in Vanity Fair on my social media, my friends didn't know. And I know a lot of people in the media. Gosh, when I do your show, my phone blows up in the next 10 minutes. When I do New York one, when, like, local TV, somebody calls me, one person called me about Vanity Fair.

[Maureen Callahan]

It's very telling. It's still. I still think it's a great piece. But you're right about the photo editing. They did you dirty with that photo edit. They posted a photo of our handsome, stylish Rob, and it looked like he got it bruised up, like at the derm or something. It was so shady. Those over there. Okay, I. I gotta talk to you about this Chelsea Handler item, which I died when I read. It's so good, Rob. Chelsea Handler's Hollywood hustle included dinners with none other than Harvey Weinstein. Quote, chelsea now acts disgusted by Hollywood culture. Why? Because it's cool. Now, is that why Chelsea? But she absolutely benefited from it when it suited her. One insider tells me she was playing the exact same game as everyone else. Now she, she parades around like she's some sort of vigilante for women in Hollywood.

[Rob Shooter]

That's a great word, a vigilante. This person. We know Chelsea because of a show on E. And she dated the President, a much older gentleman of the network.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay, can we just stop right there? Can we just stop right there? The line on Chelsea, who I have never found funny lo these many years, has been that it was her relationship with that male executive at E. That got her the Nightly show and kept that Nightly show on the air.

[Rob Shooter]

True. Absolutely true.

[Maureen Callahan]

She got it on her back, as Joan Rivers used to say. She got it on her back.

[Rob Shooter]

I'm glad you mentioned Joan, because Joan, may she rest in peace, hated Chelsea. I used to see Joan and Joan was on E at the same time as Chelsea, and Chelsea treated Joan Rivers terribly in the corridors, at the up fronts. I remember I was with Joan. We were having a drink, and she was telling me she'd Just been to the E up front and Chelsea had been rude to her. Chelsea was so. Because Chelsea got away with murderer because she was sleeping with the boss. And now for Chelsea to suddenly reinvent herself as this vigilante. I love that word of women's rights and of what's wrong in the culture. It's just so ludicrous. Anybody that knows Chelsea knows how she got her big break, knows how she had dinner with Jeffrey Epstein. I mean, just in his house. She didn't bump into him at a Hollywood party. It wasn't that they had dinner in the same restaurant. They weren't at Nobu together. One night she went to his house. Who comes to your house? That isn't how New York works. We meet in restaurants and we meet in a bar. She was at his house. And also too, she, she was friendly with Harvey Weinstein. And so you gotta look in her own closet before she throws any stones.

[Maureen Callahan]

Such great points. You know the thing about going to Jeffrey Epstein's house, all these famous people who are there, like the Katie Couric, et cetera, et cetera, again, these powerful women who want us to think that they're for women. You know, you walk into that house and you see the art on the walls and you run, you run, you run the other way. You know, you are in the presence of a depraved mind who is in fact, what they say, a fucking pedophile. You run. And if Chelsea wants to say she had no idea what Harvey was up to, you know, nobody's buying that line. We just did a mini about Blake Lively when, you know, she was asked on GMA about what she knew about Harvey when that, when that story blew up and she was like, oh, he was always great to me. I never, I mean, I never heard anything. But you know, we really have to listen to women. You know, it's like, are you really think the public is going to buy this line of bullshit?

[Rob Shooter]

That's, that's where we are. Well, thank goodness for the Nerve and

[Maureen Callahan]

thank goodness for you, Rob. We love you so much. Thank you for joining us once again to dish it out on the nerve at night. It's always so fun and cathartic to speak to Rob. Coming up, we have troublemaker feedback. We are back in a minute. Do you ever feel like your makeup is making you look like a completely different person? We've all been there. Makeup shouldn't erase your face. It should bring out what you already love. Jones Rhodes Miracle Balm is the ultimate no fuss multitasker. It replaces your highlighter, your bronzer, your blush and your lip tint in under 60 seconds. This is a hero product. No brushes, no complicated steps. Just use your fingers and go for that. Your skin but better glow if you want a bit more coverage without the cakey feel, their new foundation stick is a total game changer. It's weightless, buildable and packed with skin loving ingredients like Ceramides and Squalane, it nourishes your skin while giving you a natural, healthy finish in 30 different shades. And everything from Jones Road is clean, high performing and free from sulfates and phthalates. If you want makeup that brings out your natural glow instead of concealing it, Jones Road is the way to go. For a limited time, Nerve listeners are getting a free gift on your first purchase when you use Code Nerve at checkout, just head to jonesroadbeauty.com use code nerve at checkout and after you purchase they're going to say, hey, where did you hear about us? Please support our show, tell them you're a troublemaker and that the Nerve sent

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[Maureen Callahan]

Welcome back. It is time for Troublemaker feedback and art. Hi Maureen. Watching Colbert? We should just call him Stephen Colbert. That's actually how you pronounce his name. Hold court along with the other court jesters of buffoonery. Made my head spin. This was on a Nerve from last week. He was sitting around with his fellow late night hosts talking. As a happily married man, he would have us believe about all the famous young starlets who have sat across from him on his show who he wants to fuck. My phrasing this troublemaker continues. He is snide, sanctimonious made comments disrespecting his wife, disrespecting women. No amount of brill cream nor religiosity can hide what he really believes. And about Amanda Knox, we got a ton of feedback to our Amanda Knox segment. Looking at her video, only one word came to mind. Sinister. Just this troublemaker's opinion. In California, a narcissist cannot have too many mirrors. Dear Maureen, I remember when this murder happened. I have always thought Amanda Knox and her boyfriend were somehow involved in the murder of poor Meredith. Amanda, she writes, is a psycho, all caps. And I think you can think Amanda's a psycho whether or not you believe in her guilt, innocence, or complicity. Cartwheels and making out. Isn't that what normal people do at a crime scene of a friend roommate? Being facetious. I know you are. Facetious is one of my mom's favorite words. You know, the. Again, the defense we always get is that Amanda's on the spectrum. And those of us who would question such behavior, we're prejudiced against people who are neurodivergent or who are on the spectrum. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. There are just assholes and evil people among us. And I think Amanda reads kind of as both. Again, just my opinion. This troublemaker writes, she was so lucky to get out of that prison. You are so right. She has a life ahead of her. Unlike Meredith. She should have completely laid low or, as you suggested, done something good to honor her friend. The problem troublemaker, I believe, is that Amanda and Meredith were not friends. And based on my reading, Meredith did not like Amanda. Amanda was chaotic. Amanda was unhygienic. Amanda was bringing strange men home. Just what I've read. Dear Maureen, I've binged on some of the later episodes of the Real Housewives of New York City. The original group is peerless. I recognize this immediately. This is a fellow Maureen troublemaker. Maureen, it regards Luanne, our beloved Countess. Luanna. The incorrect use of so and so and I was frequent, as usual on this show. But Luann painted herself into a corner with Tom and Eyes Yacht. Tom and Eyes Yacht. As I was saying to somebody the other day, I was driving by the Regency Hotel and I was like, I cannot believe I have yet to make a pilgrimage to the Regency Bar where Tom was caught making out with multiple women who were not Luann when they were engaged. And she went ahead with the marriage anyway. Some of the greatest episodes of New York City to ever be done. This is a fascinating email. Fascinating troublemaker. I'm going to keep you Anonymous. You did not say so, but I'm going to keep you anonymous. You also included photos which I very much appreciate. We love when you guys send us photos so we can see who you are, where you're at, who you love, your family members, your dogs, which are one in the same. This one fascinated me. The subject line from two female exonerees, one black and one white. Amanda Knox is a cancer, a viper, a plague. Read on. I watched your segment, this troublemaker writes. I'll call you troublemaker K. I watched your segment on Amanda Knox and I want to simply say, you are right, there is nothing Amanda Knox. Go watch that nerve if you haven't seen it yet. She is doing stand up comedy about her arrest and imprisonment for the murder of a very young Meredith Kercher. There is nothing funny about wrongful incarceration. Nothing. Not the arrest, not the trial, not the years taken from you, not the person you were before and the person you become after. None of this. I know this, not as an observer, but as a survivor. This is a woman writing, I was wrongfully convicted of misdemeanor perjury on fabricated evidence and served over two years until I was exonerated in 2020. I watched my family fracture. I watched my career disappear. I watched people who loved me stop knowing how to look at me when I got out. I did not go looking for a comedy special. I looked for the women still inside who had no one fighting for them. Most people I didn't know this and if this is true, I wasn't able to fact check it before we came on the air. She writes though, and I'm inclined to believe her. Most people don't realize that the reason you don't see very few women exonerees is that the majority of women don't commit commit DNA crimes by which I, I. My supposition is she means violent crimes where DNA is left behind. We're still 72% of wrongly convicted women are convicted of crimes that never occurred. I don't like Amanda making this as if it's an epidemic facing women. Her fellow troublemaker and I met in prison. I was exonerated in 2020. I got my friend out three weeks later. We believe wrongful incarceration is a crisis and we treat it like one. I want to let you know that my friend and I are true troublemakers and she, she said that her 11 pound ginger has crushes on a teddy in trouble. So sweet. She continues. We have been fighting for women inside and outside with the true troublemaker Spirit experts say There are between 5 and 7,000 innocent women in US prisons trying to prove they're innocent when there wasn't a crime to begin with. We have doubted Amanda for a long time. Very interesting. Paul from New Zealand is back. I mean, my inbox is overflowing with brilliant, brilliant art. But for today's episode, we chose the Bondi Beach Troublemaker. Paul and Pam send this as a gift to us here at the Nerve. This is in reference to my plea for the hero of Bondi beach, the female beachgoer who was lazily enjoying her day at the beach, reading, journaling. And suddenly an army starts trampling around her, around her. They can't. They gotta go around this poor woman having a day off. Who is it? It's Harry and Megan and their fucking entourage. The security that they need so badly. If they didn't make such spectacles of themselves, those assholes, they wouldn't need so much security. And this woman was like you. I'm not leaving. As far as I know, she never uttered a word. But that's what her body length. She didn't move. She didn't move. If I were the president, I would be summoning her to America to get a Presidential Medal of Freedom. We all need freedom in these cancerous tumors in the culture. Now, they also, Pam and Paul, want us to know they really did love the Blake Lively Mini. We got so much feedback to that Blake Lively Mini. And we also got a ton of feedback. We asked you guys, would you like us to cover the Murdoch trial, The Alex Murdaugh trial? It's an overwhelming no. So you got it. We're not going to touch it. Okay. Now, this Nerve artwork is Pam's idea and Paul's creativity. This obstructive, nonchalant person, Paul and Pam assure us, is a troublemaker. And he has adorned her with the accessories on her beach towel, telling us as much, including a doppelganger pop of Teddy and Ask not is There, and other Nerve little signifiers. Think of the artwork in the vein of the Unknown Soldier. This artwork marks the Unknown Troublemaker. And you may also think of this as a souvenir to post from the Nerve. Excuse me. For the eighth wedding anniversary of Harry and Meghan. Listen, I love this. This is very Warholian. It's in the vein of the Unknown Soldier. It's going in the Smithsonian wing of the Nerve when we get one. Paul and Pam, thank you, as always. Hi, Maureen. Sorry if I am intruding. It is never an intrusion. We love it when you Guys reach out to us. Always. Tell us what you think. This troublemaker Tracy says I am a long forgotten and ignored early Gen Xer. I am not sure if you have witnessed Harrison Ford's lecture. I have not. But I'm going to look it up. His lecture to eager university student students. Clearly this was a commencement blaming his generation for the mess they have left. Honestly, the Nerve. I must endure another BS session from an overrated Hollywood actor who's done nothing to fix it. I just wish they would fuck off and leave us all alone. Is this university so hard up they need these people to get an honorary degree for publicity? Yes, troublemaker Tracy, that is exactly what's going on. It's free publicity, free advertising, free recruiting. The Nerve will have stuff to say about this in the forthcoming days. Hi Maureen. Did you see that? Megan's latest promo video is now missing her sexy, sultry, awkward part. You know, where she was like draping herself all over pantries in the kitchen like a sex kitten, just looking for some overpriced, runny, slimy jam. This troublemaker says Megan took it out. I think she's watching the Nerve. We know she is. Maureen. Final one. Please do not rest until there is an indictment for Ryan Reynolds burning down his school in Canada. As we are led to believe through our research, there is no statute of limitations in Canada for arson. So don't worry, Troublemaker. It's. It's. No, we're not going anywhere. We're going to keep our boot on that proverbial neck of his. There must be justice. We could not agree more. Keep your feedback coming. Email me at maureenevilmakeremedia.com or DM me on Instagram at Maureen Callahan, writer, or at the Nerve show. Remember to subscribe to the nerves substack. That is our week weekly. Email thenerveshow.com that's where you go. You will see a prompt, enter your email address and that's it. At the end of every week's last full Nerve on Friday, in comes the Nerve sub stack full of bonus content that does it for this edition of the Nerve at night. We will be back on Friday with a full Nerve plus Nerve merch. Grab something for yourself or a fellow troublemaker atshopthe nerve.com until then, we will see you all back here on Friday for a full episode of the Nerve, where you will never guess what we're about to say next.

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