← The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Meghan Markle's Rebrand SCRAMBLE, Savannah Guthrie's Upper hand, and Britney Spears' Legal Woes
01:12:10
Maureen Callahan is joined by celebrity reporter Rob Shuter to break down the latest rumblings surrounding Savannah Guthrie’s expected return to The Today Show and what her colleagues are allegedly saying about her when the cameras aren’t rolling, Britney Spears’ legal trouble following her recent DUI arrest, including Rob’s report on the questionable characters now circling the pop star after a massive payday from the sale of her music catalog. Maureen and Rob also tackle Meghan Markle’s Netflix fallout, the resurfacing of a disturbing find on the Royal estate, and the latest drama on Gayle King's CBS contract renewal. They also dish on the Real Housewives reboot, including RHONY alum Carole Radziwill joining the cast. Then Maureen delivers another fact-check on the latest episode of Ryan Murphy’s fantasized depiction of JFK Jr. and Carolyn Bessette in “Love Story." Rob Shuter - https://robshuter.substack.com/ Cowboy Colostrum: Get 25% Off Cowboy Colostrum with code MAUREEN at h...
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- [00:00]
Narrator/Advertiser
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- [00:29]
Advertiser
We see you.
- [00:32]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, no. My coffee. Bronnie here.
- [00:37]
Advertiser
New brawny 3 ply is now more absorbent.
- [00:39]
Actor/Character in Love Story
Wow.
- [00:40]
Narrator/Advertiser
Got a clean shirt.
- [00:41]
Advertiser
Do you wear plaid?
- [00:43]
Rob Shooter
Ronnie?
- [00:44]
Advertiser
Summon the strongest.
- [00:57]
Maureen Callahan
Hello and welcome to the Nerve at Night. I am your host, Maure Callahan. We have a banger for you. Celebrity reporter extraordinaire Rob Shooter is here and we are going to get into all of it. There is a lot of dirt, a lot of gross, disgusting Backstage talk about Savannah Guthrie's return to the Today show and what her colleagues really think about her. It's not pretty. And Rob and I are going to get into it. We're also going to cover Britney Spears, who was arrested on DUI last week and what's going on, why her family is keeping their distance. We're also going to talk about Meghan Markle getting dumped publicly and brutally by Netflix. More disturbing updates that have surfaced involving the royals and a body, the body of a young woman, a teenager potentially discovered on a royal estate. And when the UK press covers stuff like this, you know it's serious. Plus the latest rumblings at CVS involving Oprah's platonic life partner, Gayle King and her contract renewal. Gayle was hanging on by a thread. Says our reporting end. We've got some housewives gossip, including Carol Radziwill, who is going to be back even though she was a Kennedy, is a Kennedy. I guess, you know, bills need to be paid. We haven't been working as far as the Nerve can see. As always, we've got some of your most incredible feedback. And then we will be doing this every week until we are through with this series. And then we're going to do our own special recap. We would never let you guys down. The reality check, the nerves. Real talk about fake people. Ryan Murphy's love story. We did Daryl Hannah's op ed, her righteous op ed in the New York Times yesterday. Today it's time for a recap for the ages. All right, troublemakers, are you ready? Are you ready? Let's go. Do you know that the condition of your hair, skin, nails, mental clarity and energy all start with gut health. Adding quality colostrum to your daily routine can help with all of it. Today's sponsor, Cowboy Colostrum offers the highest quality bovine colostrum available, 100% American made from 100% American grass fed cows. Unlike other colostrum brands, Cowboy Colostrum is true first day whole colostrum rich in bioactives. They also use ethical practices ensuring that they only collect the surplus colostrum after baby calves have had their fill made with natural ingredients and no artificial flavors. Just add a scoop of their chocolate, Madagascar vanilla, matcha or strawberry into your morning smoothie and get healthy from the inside out. For a limited time, our listeners get up to 25% off their entire order. Just head to cowboycolostrum.com Maureen and use code Maureen at checkout. That's 25% off when you use code maureen@cowboycolostrum.com Maureen joining us now is none other than Rob Shooter, celebrity reporter extraordinaire, author of the Must subscribe gossip substack Naughty but Nice. I am an avid subscriber. Go treat yourself. And if you haven't already, go and pre order Rob's new book. It's out in April. It's called It Started with a Whisper. And we want to pre order it because those go towards all copies sold and we want Rob debuting on the New York Times bestseller list, an avatar for troublemakers everywhere. Welcome back to the Nerve.
- [05:20]
Rob Shooter
Rob, you're so kind to me. I'm coming to see you in a few days to do our big Oscar show and I'm gonna bring you a book.
- [05:27]
Maureen Callahan
I cannot wait.
- [05:29]
Rob Shooter
First copy is going to you and you deserve it.
- [05:31]
Maureen Callahan
Rob, I can't wait. You have to sign it for me. You have to sign it for me. Okay, let's talk about some darker, darker entities in the culture. Now, as, as I reported on the Nerve yesterday, you know, there's a lot of hullabaloo over at the Today show about Savannah returning. And they're all, all of her colleagues are on air crying and weeping and rending their garments. And they're so happy she's back. And I have an impeccably placed source who says that the minute Savannah got on a plane hours after her mother was reported missing, those vipers over at the Today show, talent people that beam into your living rooms every morning who are weeping on TV as we speak on were saying in their makeup chairs, it's karma. Savannah deserves this nightmare because she's such a bitch. Can you just talk to me Rob, about again, we can't talk enough about what really goes on behind the scenes at these shows. But today especially, yeah, this awful incident,
- [06:34]
Rob Shooter
and I think you're with me on this, we send our hearts to the family. This is just horrific, what's going on. But what it has done is it's really, really placed a spotlight on morning television. We've talked about this in the past. There used to be the morning wars between GMA and the Today show. But what we've never really got into is the wars within the building. So we know the shows are wildly competitive. I think that's probably, probably stating the obvious. What a lot of people don't know but your sources is revealing to you is within these shows there is a hierarchy. And for a long time at the Today show, that person was Matt Lauer. He was the king of NBC. You didn't sit where he sat in a meeting. You didn't speak when he spoke in a meeting. And then once he was fired, rightfully so. The person that quickly moved into that seat is Savannah. Savannah runs NBC News. She's the boss over there. And she can. She can do it with. With kindness or she can do it with. With a fury. I hear she has done it with both approach. People at NBC News are fearful of Savannah. Even people that like her are fearful of her because she's just been given this enormous amount of power, maybe too much power in one person's hands. But Savannah runs NBC News and they all know it.
- [07:57]
Maureen Callahan
Rob, are you saying that amongst her colleagues, they like their feelings, their antipathy towards Savannah, this tragedy notwithstanding, have a base, have a genuine basis that she, you know, I can't imagine ever equating the violent abduction of one's elderly, ill mother from her bed in the dead of night with a kind of karmic justice that to me seems beyond dark. But it, but it tracks. It's like we get this bullshit sunniness where they're all like, we're a family, we're a family, we're a family. It's like. Well, a lot of families are really effed up. And I think they are really effed up over there.
- [08:40]
Rob Shooter
Yeah, I think it's set up like the Hunger Games to be on these shows. It's like a competition internally who gets the most airtime, who's sitting in the anchor's chair. It's like being the king or the queen of England. You gotta wait for someone to die before you get that chair. The only way you get a promotion, as if somebody leaves, you're Sitting there waiting, hoping for somebody to mess up, and then when they do, you advance. That's the awful truth about the job structure of morning television, is that you need somebody else's failure for you to get any success. It's a. It's a very, very cruel system. I do think what this is pointing out to me, though, is I'm like you. I can't imagine ever saying that this was karma, this. This horrific incident. But what it tells me here is, is a lot about the staff as well as Savannah. If they really think that, then they're just terrible, terrible people. I had a morning show for three years on VH1. My book, it Started with the Whisper, is really based on some of my observations on that show. It was a viper's den. It was such a mean environment.
- [09:47]
Maureen Callahan
And, you know, that's like a basic cable show. Lower stakes than, like, one of the three remaining network morning shows, which do remain cash cows. But even there, you're saying that the egos, the competition, it's just.
- [10:01]
Rob Shooter
It was awful. I didn't. I didn't have a day off for three years because if I took a day off and the numbers didn't drop, I would be fired. Like, why would they pay me if the numbers don't go down? And so it's a really competitive world where you're judged. Every 30 seconds, they get ratings. Every 30 seconds, it's almost like QVC. They know what product is selling every 30 seconds. And when a product stops selling, they dump it. Well, they're not selling products on the Today show. They're selling themselves. And when they are on the show and the audience doesn't respond, it doesn't matter how long they've been there. It doesn't matter how smart they are. It doesn't matter how good their work is. It's a numbers game. And that's true for all of television. And if you don't deliver the numbers, you are out. But I warn staff over there, Savannah now is more powerful than she has ever been in her career. When she returns to that show, their numbers are going to be stacked. Staggering. I'm hearing at the moment. There's a lot of conversations we broke on your show that Savannah was coming back to New York. She's in New York. We knew that first. I now know that there are discussions about how do they bring her back on the show. What NBC would like to do is account. Darren. Two days to Savannah, three days. It's grotesque. I can't imagine her agreeing to that, but that they know, they know that this, this tragedy is also somewhat of an opportunity. Yes, it's vile, isn't it, to say, but let's be real. We're friends here. We tell the truth. On the nerve. I would be a liar if I, if I didn't say. I've had conversations with people inside NBC who are almost giddy, a little excited
- [11:41]
Maureen Callahan
about, oh, sure, it's going to be a ratings blockbuster. There's going to be, I would imagine, just my guess, a tie in primetime special, maybe a one on one sit down. I would imagine, of course, there will be another People magazine cover. You know, Savannah rises from the ashes, her bravery. And I would, I would say to any of those people over at Studio 1A who had the temerity to tell their makeup artists and anybody who is listening that Savannah's mother getting abducted was karma. They better watch their effing back because a more empowered Savannah is going to have them on the ropes if not kicked out all the way out of 30 Rock.
- [12:21]
Rob Shooter
Oh, absolutely. There's going to be a witch hunt and maybe there should be. You know, I love leakers. I love people that gossip. I do this for a living. So keep calling me everybody. I love you. I love you. I love you. However, I think I have, I've been really kind with, with my sources and occasionally I tell them, back off. Like, you shouldn't tell me this today. It's too hot. Like, if I do this story today, you're going to get in trouble. Like, I can disguise you. I can really cover tracks very well. I try so hard to not to leave any fingerprints when people talk to me. I'm so grateful that people pick up a phone and tell me information. I'm not paying them. So I'm the luckiest guy in the world to have built those connections. And I think part of the reason I'm so good at it is I often turn stories down. Like, if somebody called me from NBC and told me this, I'd tell them, listen, as a, as somebody you work with here, stop saying that because this will get. This will this.
- [13:13]
Carolyn Bessette (Character)
She.
- [13:14]
Rob Shooter
This is so disgusting and so vile and her power is so extreme. You better be checking your emails. You better be checking your phone because there will be a witch hunt within NBC to see who is leaking on Savannah. She has become now the figurehead, the status symbol, really. She is NBC.
- [13:32]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, she's Saint Savannah now. She's Saint Savannah. She's bulletproof. And, you know, and just before we move on to the next story, whoever leaked that that source who will remain anonymous. I don't really think should be the target of any. Like the target of the investigation should be the moral vipers who are saying this is karma. And I think to your point though, this is something that when we consume gossip and we consume sources who prefer to remain anonymous, you always have to want. You have to ask yourself, why is somebody leaking this? Right? Why would they leak something that if they get caught, could jeopardize their own livelihood or even working in the industry ever again? Because you don't wanna hire somebody who would tell tales out of school. But my theory is that the people who leak stuff like this are working at a place that is so demoralizing, so grinds them down where they are treated like crap, where they are overworked and underpaid, that they're basically like, eff it, you know, these monsters are getting millions and millions of dollars to sit in these glamour jobs and fool America. That they're like wonderful people with love in their hearts. And it's all like, again, put me in the writer's room of the. Over at Apple. I would kill. I would kill. Okay, Britney Spears. Britney. Okay. The New York Post ran this like double truck in a Sunday's edition. Brittany was arrested on a DUI charge on Wednesday, March 4, in Ventura County, California. And what has emerged is nothing that we are surprised by now. The inside insiders, according to the New York Post, quote, want the pop star to get into a, quote, medical detox. We all know that means hardcore rehab, allegedly reportedly after dui, quote, pill bust because apparently the cops found unidentified substances in her vehicle. The reporting that we're getting at the Daily Mail very, very, very solid reporting from very solid sources is that the remaining people in Britney's life have given up. That it feels just far too difficult. And that in the wake of the conservatorship having been lifted, any attempt to get any control over Britney would only blow back in their faces. And that Britney is totally alone at this point. And that if she were to forgive me, because this is a graphic hard truth, but they do not think that she is much longer for this world. Rob?
- [16:09]
Rob Shooter
Yeah, just a little background here. I used to be Britney's publicist about 20 years ago. I was working on the Britney Spears PR campaign. It was when she got married in Vegas. Remember she got married for 20.
- [16:19]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, to that childhood friend, Brian. Last name escapes me.
- [16:23]
Rob Shooter
Alexander, I think. And we had to rush out, rush out to Vegas and clean it up. This is some insights you're not going to hear Anywhere else because, because I, I've met her, I've been around her, I know her. The Britney Spears that we see today is always who she was. We were sold a lie. She was never a polished pop princess. She was never that really super put together pop star. She's always been messy. She's always had sloppy friends. She's always had bad judgment. She broke my heart like she was like a little sparrow. When I was with her, away from her being Britney Spears, she was just this little country pumpkin who sort of had hit the big time and I felt like she was in the middle of this hurricane and nobody gave her any skills or she just didn't have that, the education or the, or the people around her to survive this. So I'm not at all surprised this has happened. But once again, when you see Britney making those videos in her underwear looking messy and her hair is everywhere and eyelashes are falling off, that's the true Britney. Remember they did this with Whitney Houston. They tried to make Whitney Houston into somebody that she wasn't. She was like that polished pop princess and it wasn't true. Whitney was who she was and we figured that out later on. So anyone that's disappointed with Britney, I would argue you actually sold a false bill of goods. This is who she is. But this is why it makes it even more dangerous and damaging. If this is who she is, then you can't change her. She will never go back to being the pop princess. This is her baseline. This is her starting point in life. And so she's always had bad judgment. She's never had people around her who have been looking out for her. They've all been on the gravy train. And all this happened Maureen and I don't think this is a coincidence. All this happened after it was announced that Britney, who was going broke, had sold her catalog for 200 million. Now all the vultures, all the disgusting bottom feeders in la, in la, have glommed onto her. I know these people, I've been around these people. I reported that Britney's been hanging out with known drug dealers. Every opportunist, every sleazy person in la, and there is a lot of them, they've hit the jackpot with Britney Spears because not only neither she have the money, she has nobody around her protecting her. So this is about getting that money. It was the worst thing that could have ever been announced or said. She's put a target on herself now for literally the most despicable people in Hollywood are now in Britney's Inner circle, she's not going to rehab. I spoke to people and they said no. They're trying to convince her that if you go to rehab, and I think there's some logic to this, if you go to rehab, then when you go to court, you can prove to the judge that you are taking this seriously and that you have started your recovery. It's a trick that a lot of people do, not just celebrities, but when people get trouble, they rush to rehab. So by the time they. They turn up in court, Maureen, God forbid you and I ever get in trouble. But when I do, I can't say it by you, but when I'm in trouble, I will rush to rehab because it will look very good for me at my court appearance. So Britney's team, they're not stupid. They're trying to get her to do the same thing. They're trying to help her here. She said, no, I'm not going to rehab. I'm not getting in treatment. She doesn't think she's done anything wrong.
- [19:42]
Maureen Callahan
It all feels very Amy Winehouse adjacent, although Brittany has at least 20 years on Amy when she died. And I think when we look back at the Britney Spears story, it will be an American tragedy, a real American tragedy. Now moving on to another tragedy, Meghan Markle. Netflix announced last week they're done. Like, they're done with the manufacturing. They're done. They. It's the kiss of death, according to Page Six for any future deals. And then she went and did this International Women's Day post. Speaking as a woman, I have no idea what the f. International Women's Day is, what it stands for, what it means. I don't particularly need it or want it, but the caption with, you know, Meghan and her daughter with their backs to the camera for the woman she will one day be happy. International Women's Day. Photo by Papa Sussex. I mean, the affectation. We understand that Meghan is scrambling. There are now disparate reports coming out about Meghan and Harry planning a trip to Australia, another faux royal trip where she may or may not be attempting to expand her, as ever brand there. What are you hearing?
- [21:03]
Rob Shooter
Yeah, a couple of things here. So I hear they are going to Australia. The trip has been booked. They are going to go in April, so it's only a few weeks away. They think that this is their opportunity to turn up and really exploit what's going on with the family and Andrew. They can separate themselves. It's not a royal tour. They're there as private citizens.
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Maureen Callahan
Oh, come on, though they're pretending it's a royal tour, they will try to be met by dignitaries, heads of states, William, strip the titles. It cannot come soon enough.
- [21:34]
Rob Shooter
Do you know why he won't do it? I spoke to a friend of William's just a few days ago when Diana had her HRH title stripped away, he said to her, mommy, when I'm king, I will bring it back. And I think he's having those feelings. He's no fan of Harry's and Harry has certainly not treated him well. But there's some mommy issues here in hrh. That's why these titles, I'm not totally convinced will be stripped when he is king. But they are going to go to Australia. Everyone I've spoke to said that the itinerary which has been put together is really a show and tell. They're going to test the waters. They're going to see if this could be a market for them and if it works, we'll see them try this out in different markets now around the world. There is some support for them in Australia. I have friends down under that I spoke to and they said that to get. To get Harry and Meghan in Australia, there will be people that are excited, especially if they don't go to the big towns. If they go to the smaller towns, people might get very, very thrilled about that. They are seeing people that are super famous and that's always very exciting. The last time they were there, 2018 was a sensation. This was when they were at the peak of their powers. It was before it got all so ugly. She announced that she was pregnant with Archie while she was there. So they have figured out, took them a minute, that America hasn't worked for them, so they're going to try another country.
- [22:52]
Maureen Callahan
Weren't there reports, Rob, during that initial Australia trip that Megan said to a courtier, I can't believe I'm not getting paid for this.
- [23:00]
Rob Shooter
You're absolutely right.
- [23:01]
Maureen Callahan
And then aren't there reports also never substantiated, but allegedly reportedly very stubborn. Reports that in a most displeased moment, Megan threw a cup of hot tea on an underling because it was not to her liking.
- [23:14]
Rob Shooter
Yeah, I heard she hissed at an underling, too. She turned up and she bought into her own celebrity. A billion people had just watched her wedding. I'm not defending her, but she turned up there like she was Princess Diana. She's not, but I understand why she's going back to this place. She has a warm memory of it. She doesn't have a Warm memory of Britain. I don't think she has a warm memory of America anymore. She'll go to Canada, where she really enjoyed herself on suits. So they're going there to test out a new market. We know that it's probably not going to end well. And even. Even if their heart's in the right place, I doubt it is. But even if it is, these two always mess. It's absolutely anybody. If anybody could take what could be an opportunity and turn it into a disaster, it's these two. A little bit about Netflix, because I know you love the original reporting. I'm told Kris Jenner's already making phone calls to try and get her a show on Hulu. Kris Jenner and Megan are really close. Kim Kardashian confirmed this. I never understood this friendship. That's why she turned up at the birthday party, which she messed up, too, let me add. But I'm told that Chris is already helping Megan try.
- [24:19]
Maureen Callahan
Why? Why?
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Rob Shooter
So she'll get her 10, 20%. That's why.
- [24:23]
Maureen Callahan
But what would be the concept?
- [24:25]
Rob Shooter
Who knows what it would be? It would be the same show on a different network, which does happen. They have picked up shows. Lots of shows that get canceled sometimes end up on different networks. And so the Kardashians went from E to Hulu. Now, admittedly, they were a huge hit, and so it's easy to see why you picked them up. Very few shows that fail do that. However, to do a favor for Kris Jenner. Maybe. Maybe. I think what Hulu will say is, instead of giving Megan her own show, let her join the Kardashians, which isn't out of the question.
- [24:57]
Maureen Callahan
Join us, a friend of. Join us, a friend of. Bringing us to the Roni reboot. Oh, wait, before we get to Roni, I've got to ask you. A dead teen had been found on a royal estate. Rob, what? Do you know, if anything, about this coverage?
- [25:16]
Rob Shooter
It happened several years ago. The Telegraph broke this story and there was a person found, a young woman, I believe, dead on the royal estate, and it's gone wild.
- [25:26]
Maureen Callahan
Which one? Do we know which one?
- [25:27]
Rob Shooter
I think they do. It's on the COVID of the National Enquirer this week. It's on my desk, ready to be read immediately after I finish this podcast. But, yeah, I remember several years ago, it was very mysterious, and a young person in Britain was found dead. Now they have hundreds of acres. So I'm just sort of putting it into perspective here. And so she could have been out for a hike or she could have been Dumped there. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's an awful story, but the reason it's come back up is now people have a lot of questions about this royal family and who's partying with them and who's on their royal estates. But the story's true. This is not urban legend. This is not a myth. A young person was found dead on the royal estate and it was hushed up and nobody spoke about it. The Telegraph broke the story a few years ago, and now this story has suddenly picked up steam again.
- [26:19]
Maureen Callahan
Yes, and I will say this to your point, your qualifier that, yes, these estates are on hundreds and hundreds of thousands of acres. And when the, when the UK media goes to press with something, the legal hurdles they go through because libel laws are so strict, they are so much more stringent than in America. And if anything, especially when it comes to the royals, the British press will pull back rather than go forward. So if they're reporting this, this is very, very significant. And secondly, to anyone out there who may think that sounds fantastical, there's no way that a royal would have been involved in the death of, like, a teenage girl. I point simply to the Kennedy family and the lineage of death and destruction of young girls and women in their wake. Happens all the time. Not saying Andrew did anything, I'm just saying. Okay, now on to Roni. Let's lighten it up a little bit. We've got news that they took a massive pay cut. As you and I have discussed previously, the new reboot, which has them down in Florida in a sort of Golden Girls scenario, will be airing on either. Um, and Carol. Oh, no. Okay, so the Roni Roney on Bravo is coming back. Roni on Bravo is coming back with some. Some holdovers from the reboot. Aaron Lickey is one. Surprises me. I find her beyond boring. Carol Radziwill, however, is coming back as a friend of. Now, let's discuss this. Rob. Carol, when she was a full fledged cast member, always had her nose in the air and was like, I'm better than you, bitches. I'm a princess. I was relayed. I was, I was sisters with Carolyn Bissette Kennedy. And hey, like, my storyline this year is I'm going over to England and I'm gonna collect my dead husband's ashes and curl up with him in bed. I'm classy that way. Talk to us.
- [28:11]
Rob Shooter
Let's do the Florida. Let's do the reboot first. So they are rebooting the show in Florida. I'm told Andy Cohen is really mad about this because loyalty with Andy goes one way. You have to be loyal to him, but he can fire you. So all these ladies were fired. So good for them. Pick up your talents, your tricks, maybe even your hairbrushes and your apples and head down to Florida. So they've all gone down to Florida. They're going to be in a house. It could be cues. However, the problem is with this is that a lot of things that make this show delicious, E doesn't like. E is the People magazine of television. They're scared of publicists, they're scared of controversy, they're scared of even attention. Don't say it's on E. And so they're so scared of upsetting anybody. I think it's going to be really dull. We saw Jill Zarin has already been fired from making a comment about, about the Super Bowl. And so I think they're going to be very, very cautious. So I predict this is going to be a bit of a dull show. But they're not getting paid what they used to get paid. These ladies were earning. They never earned a million. They always sort of fibbed about that. But they earn 3 to $400,000 a season. Now the season's about $50,000. E just does not have the money that Bravo has. And Bravo too was streaming these shows on peacocks. They were making money there. E Now used to be part of NBC, of Bravo. They're not. It's a separate company now, interestingly, owned by the same people that own msnbc. Msn, that's the new name of that. And so I think it was going to be a little bit dull. And they're not going to make any money either. Now back to New York. So Carol has signed on this to not have a Real Housewives of New York. It used to be the. The Crown Jewels. Didn't it used to be the centerpiece of the Real Housewives? They've messed it up. They've messed with it. They've messed with it. They keep changing it. They're meddling with it. And so a show that failed so badly it got pulled off the air. They're bringing three of the six back. No, start over. I think Carol here is going to try and appeal to the old school fans of the show. People that used to love this show that now does not recognize anybody on it. Plus, Carol didn't sign onto the E. Show. So she's the only one really that is available apart from Jill Zarin. They don't want her. But Carol. Oh, she's. I've known her for a long time. She is a piece of work. Carol portrays herself like a princess, like a class act.
- [30:33]
Maureen Callahan
She's a girl from upstate New York. She's a working class girl from a place called Suffern, New York.
- [30:41]
Rob Shooter
Do you know what they call her inside Bravo? This is so. They call her the Hilaria Baldwin of Bravo because it's all so.
- [30:51]
Maureen Callahan
It's so good. It's Carol Razewell. Landed gentry royalty in their midst. Get out. I am. I am really excited for this. I just can't wait. You and I actually have a drinking game, like seconds until she mentions Carolyn Bessette. She's dying because she was written out of love stories.
- [31:11]
Rob Shooter
I know somebody who she won't be mentioning, who she knew actually better than Carolyn Bessette.
- [31:16]
Maureen Callahan
Yes. Well, Ghislaine Maxwell, let's make this a problem for Bravo.
- [31:22]
Rob Shooter
You're gonna talk about her?
- [31:23]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah, let's. We'll talk about her at the Nerve. She won't be talking about her in the polite realm of reality television. Over on Bravo, we're gonna make this a mother effing problem for her. Two more quick hits, my friend. Gayle King. Gayle King got resigned at cbs. It was not looking good for her. But then Anderson Cooper unexpectedly flounced off in a huff. He's not going to be dealing with Barry Weiss's bullshit anymore. And they looked around and they're like, we've got nobody. So here's Gail, and she'll take a pay cut. Now, she was making a reported 7 to 13 million last year, and we've heard that she took like a 50% pay cut. So she could be making anywhere from like three to five. I'm gonna guess it's closer to five mil a year. But. But talk to us about Gail,
- [32:11]
Rob Shooter
if you could get it. Still, nice work if you can get it. I think here they both looked around looking to date somebody better, and they didn't anybody. CBS didn't really want her back, but they couldn't get Megyn Kelly. They couldn't get the people they really wanted. I even heard Joe Rogan's name was somebody that was. Floated around really huge. People who would change the dynamic of cbs, they didn't want to touch cbs. At the same time, I think Gail looked around too, to see her alternatives. Could she go to NBC? Could she go to. To. To the Today show, Good Morning America? And the answer is no. Gail's on the number three morning show. So why would the number two or the number one show. Hire her. They wouldn't. It's just.
- [32:49]
Maureen Callahan
But Rob. But, Rob, I gotta push back. She has been to space. What other morning show host can say that? Really? Have you been? Have you?
- [33:02]
Rob Shooter
I stand corrected, my friends. But just a little shout out to Gayle if she's watching. I emailed Gayle to tell her to ask her if she could mention to her friend that I have a book coming out. I mentioned that and she did email me back with a contact. So thank you for that, Gail.
- [33:18]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, well, that's classy. That's classy. You know, Oprah only likes people who are involved in murder. But, you know, Stedman, call us. Okay, finally, finally, we've got to talk in the run up to our very exciting Oscars livestream, and we cannot wait to have. Please do dress up. We're dressing up. We have very special accessories for every panelist. Who's coming? Timothy Shyamalama. Ding Dong. Okay, this has become a masterclass in how to lose an Oscar. And he just did a Town hall with Matthew McConaughey in which he pissed off more people in the arts by saying that nobody gives a shit about the likes of opera and ballet. This is a kid from New York City. It seems that he has fully repulsed everyone in the voting block. Tell me your predictions. I could be wrong, but tell me yours.
- [34:09]
Rob Shooter
Well, first of all, let me just tip my hat to you here. You're the first person that pointed out Timothy might not be the person we think he is. And I think the mask is. Has finally slipped. It took me a minute. He's not this arty, farty cool New York guy. He's a.
- [34:23]
Maureen Callahan
He didn't know who Bob Dylan was before he played Bob Dylan.
- [34:26]
Rob Shooter
He's a fan of the Kardashians. He's a reality girl. That's who he is. And so I never understood why he was dating Kylie Jenner. Now I get it. That's who he is. He does not like opera. He does not like ballet. He does not like the fine arts. He pretends he does, but he doesn't. He's not this arty farty. He's not making great, great independent films. He's not. He pretends he does. Ethan Hawke is, but he's not. He's making these movies that are not that great. And somehow he's convinced himself that he is the bet. Meryl Streep. Somehow he's convinced himself that he's this. Hollywood's catching up to him. I tell you, I thought they were Blaming Kylie. They're not. They know him. I've told he's been bratty. I'm told he's missed a lot of the lunches, a lot of the meetings, a lot of the photo shoots that all the people that are nominated for the awards that get, you know, this is a club. Hollywood's a tough club. And you got to play your dues. You got to go and be nice, you got to shake hands, you got to take some photographs. He doesn't play the game and his arrogance might cost him the Academy Award. The one regret I have is the voting stopped a couple of days ago. So if it was, I know if it was still voting this week, and I'm sure we'll predict it on your show, I would predict if the voting was still going on, that he won't win however the voting ended. So maybe he snuck in, but I'm going to still say I think he blew it. I think he blew it.
- [35:45]
Maureen Callahan
We can only hope. Timothy may have stopped discussing his top level shit, but I can promise you that Timmy's top level poops will be on our desk as we cover the Oscars live this Sunday. We can't wait to see you, Rob.
- [36:03]
Rob Shooter
Who's on the panel? Is it a secret? Can I ask?
- [36:05]
Maureen Callahan
Some are surprises, some are. We're gonna hold back for the troublemakers, but you, of course, are just a star attraction. And what can we do but, like, just broadcast you everywhere we can?
- [36:20]
Rob Shooter
I got stopped on the street a couple of days ago by a troublemaker. Keep saying hello to me if you bump into me. I'm so flattered. Don't be scared by my big nose and silly hair. Come and say hello.
- [36:30]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, Rob is the sweetest. He is the sweetest always. Yes, he's. And, you know, maybe hit him up for a free copy of his book, you know. All right, Rob, we will see you on Sunday. Do not forget my signed copy. I will be expecting it.
- [36:43]
Rob Shooter
Thank you again, my friend. See you Sunday.
- [36:45]
Maureen Callahan
See you Sunday. Thanks to Rob Shooter, the one and only. Coming up, we have troublemaker feedback. We are back in a minute. The old adage, you are what you eat feels even truer as we age. So if you are searching for an on the go protein snack that truly satisfies, try Mosh bars. Founded by Maria Shriver and her son, Patrick Schwarzenegger, Mosh was created to spark conversation around brain health. After Maria's father battled Alzheimer's, they partnered with top scientists to create bars made with brain supporting ingredients like ashwagandha Lion's Mane, Collagen, Omega 3s and Cognizant. There are nine flavors including plant based options that all taste amazing plus mosh donates proceeds to women's Alzheimer's research. So if you want to find ways to give back to others while fueling your body and your brain, Mosh bars are the perfect choice for you. Head to moshlife.com nerve to save 20% off +5 free shipping on the Bestsellers Trial Pack or the new Plant based trial pack. That's 20% off plus free shipping on either the Bestsellers Trial Pack or the Plant based Trial Pack at M O S H l I f e.com nerve and thank you Dimash for sponsoring this episode. We know you'll always find ways to
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- [39:05]
Maureen Callahan
We are back and it is time for your feedback and art. And we begin with none other than our trusty Paul from New Zealand who submitted this art called Nerve. Oops Instead of Nerve Ops I get and it's Brittany. Coming right off the heels of our discussion with Rob Shooter about Britney, Paul's got her in the clink. Okay, moving on. Hello Queen Troublemaker Listening to your podcast about the Kennedys last night reminded me that one of my first jobs out of College in 1982 was working as a sales clerk at brooks Brothers in McLean, Virginia. Because the mall was not that far from Hickory Hill. Ethel Kennedy would come into the store all the time. She was not friendly, only working with one particular salesman, not even giving the rest of us a hello nod or eye contact. Her assistant or someone who also was hired help at the house would sometimes come in like a tornado, appearing frantic and stressed. This all tracks. I've heard these stories forever. This troublemaker from Fairfax, Virginia Goes on. We had family friends who had a friend who lived next door to Ethel and Hickory Hill. This person said that Ethel's kids would always leave the fence gate open between their two yards and there was a problem with a pony that would get out from Ethel's yard. You know, it all tracks. It all tracks. American royalty. You wouldn't want to go within five feet of these people. Hi, Maureen. I've been watching TCM Turner Classic Movies, My beloved Turner Classic Movies since its inception. My son was just born. Congratulations, troublemaker glow. Send us an email so we can send your newborn sons some troublemaker merch. I started watching TCM during late night nursings and GLOW has become obsessed with all the old Hollywood stars, especially Gene Tierney. And she too would like a Gene Tierney segment. We are working on it. Hi, Maureen. This is to Jesse Buckley, the insufferable Jessie Buckley, who is going to win the Oscar for Best Actress this Sunday for Hamnet. And this is a movie I am not going to watch. I don't want to see a movie about a small child who dies. I don't care if that child is the progeny of William Shakespeare. I'm not watching it anyway. Jessie Buckley is so high on her own supply right now and that that actor's award speech was just insufferability in a bottle. This troublemaker from London writes that this troublemaker named Damien has a close family friend who has worked for the BBC and has always been a useful source of information. Now, Jesse got her start, not that you will hear it in American media because we're being told that she was trained by William Shakespeare himself at the Globe. The greatest thing to happen to acting since Meryl Streep. She came from reality TV in Britain. She was on a show called I Do Anything. It was similar in format to American Idol, except that the prize was a leading role in an Andrew Lloyd Webber production of Oliver. Anyone who watched the show would have noticed that Jesse Buckley started off as the darling of the judging panel and was largely tipped to win. But about halfway through, the judges became much more critical of her, particularly her attitude. Hear that, Timothy Shama Lama Ding Dong. If the nerve does anything, it's going to make these people with attitudes about how effing great they are and how the rest of us shouldn't even be able to look there like we're going to take you all down. That's the gig. That's our purpose. Now, Jesse Buckley was voted out. The reason for this, according to this close family member, is that Jesse Buckley was in Perens Allegedly, allegedly, reportedly just this troublemaker's opinion an absolute nightmare behind the scenes. It's always these ones who present, as this troublemaker writes to the public, an image of being this wide eyed innocent from a town in Ireland dripping with humility. Can't believe this is happening to her. Her little old Jesse Buckley from a small town in Ireland. The reality is that, allegedly, this troublemaker continues, she was an absolute prima donna who was dismissive and rude to the staff working behind the scenes and generally loathed by the other contestants. She thought she was a cut above them and an absolute shoe in to win the role. This family friend recalled specifically one incident where Jesse Buckley again allegedly threw a massive diva strop. That's Brit for fit after one of the judges dared to give her constructive feedback on her diction. I love it. Finally, dear Maureen, we have an ode to a yellow butterfly to one of Jim Curtis's yellow butterflies written by troublemaker Linnie T. Oh yellow butterfly, where can you be? I search for you everywhere. Affirmations I seek in winter you sleep. Now must I paint my own lifestyle guru Jim, have you any in your brand new New York City home, allegedly purchased by Jennifer Aniston for the princely sum of $25 million? Keep your feedback coming. Email me at maureenvilmakehairmedia.com or DM me on Instagram at Maureen Callahan, writer, or at the Nerve Show. And remember to subscribe to the Nerve substack atthe nerve show.com Coming up, our next rebuttal, our next counterpoint, our next pieces of evidence submitted in everything that Ryan Murphy's highly romanticized, fictionalized love story between JFK Jr. And Carolyn Bessette. Coming up after the break. See you in a minute. We've talked about before about why one Skin stands out. And it's not hype or pretty jars. It's real science. One Skin was founded by female PhD longevity scientists asking a very smart question. If zombie cells drive wrinkles and loss of elasticity, why not target them directly? 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- [47:26]
Narrator/Advertiser
Wasn't that delicious?
- [47:28]
Maureen Callahan
So good.
- [47:28]
Advertiser
Your bill, ladies.
- [47:30]
Actor/Character in Love Story
I got it.
- [47:30]
Narrator/Advertiser
No, I got it.
- [47:33]
Maureen Callahan
Seriously, I insist.
- [47:34]
Rob Shooter
I insisted first.
- [47:35]
Maureen Callahan
Don't be silly. You don't be silly.
- [47:38]
Advertiser
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- [47:44]
Rob Shooter
Okay.
- [47:45]
Maureen Callahan
Rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors. Shoot. No.
- [47:49]
Advertiser
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- [48:25]
Maureen Callahan
We are back. And it is time, troublemakers, to talk about episode six of Love Story. John F. Kennedy Jr. And Carolyn Bessette. Title of this episode is the Wedding. Now, we open during the metaphorical hangover from the barroom brawl that took place between Carolyn and John in a New York City park on a Sunday that the video and photographs of which went all over the world. And in Ryan Murphy's retelling, Carolyn is summoned to Ethel Kennedy's home up on the Cape for a lecture. Up there, this is fictionalized. And John F. Kennedy Jr. Is summoned to a little tete a tete with his sister Caroline, who is day drinking, and Ted Kennedy, who is played by Donald Logue. And Ted is going to give John a real spanking over this most egregious conduct in public. And then you and I are going to talk a little bit about Ted Kennedy. Here we go.
- [49:41]
Actor/Character in Love Story
This family means something to people. Do you understand that? I'm like the only one that understands that I'm the one who's trying to salvage this family's reputation.
- [49:52]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, that's what you're doing? Salvaging.
- [49:54]
Actor/Character in Love Story
I fucked up once. I let my guard down for 15 minutes. What about the 36 years before that? Do I get any credit for that?
- [50:01]
Maureen Callahan
Agreeing to do things like that makes you complicit in all of this. What about that don't you understand?
- [50:05]
Actor/Character in Love Story
Do you think I like being stalked by the national press? This isn't my fault, Caroline. You're the one who told me to start taking personal responsibility. You've never been this volatile around a girlfriend before. Yeah, well, it's been a volatile year. Carolyn's the first person I've been with, probably the first person I've ever met and sees something other than that little boy. And she's not my girlfriend. I. I don't understand.
- [50:35]
Rob Shooter
You broke up?
- [50:39]
Actor/Character in Love Story
She's my fiance.
- [50:42]
Maureen Callahan
Ted says he's never seen John Jr. This volatile around a woman before. Says the man who left a 28 year old Mary Jo Kopechny to die in three feet of water. This was a long, agonizing death. She could have been saved. Ted ran away. Ted went all the way back to his inn while she was there straining to breathe through a pocket of air, upside down in a car. What did Ted do? He called down to the front desk. You want to know why? There was a party going on in a room next door down the hall and they were keeping him up. He needed to get his sleep. How Ted Kennedy can be depicted in this series as the patriarch, the head of the family, with zero comment or acknowledgement of who this guy is or how sick a family has to be to have a drunken. Could you call him a murderer? I mean, I think were he to have, had he been charged, he probably would have been charged at best with criminally negligent homicide. I would call him a murderer. I would. Now I'm going to read a little bit from Ask Not About Ted. This is a piece that was published in GQ magazine and has since been buried to history. Certainly the likes of Ryan Murphy, FX and Hulu, which are preferring to tell a much more polite story. This is a piece that was published five years before. So this was the 90s. I'd have to look up the exact publication date, but I'm going to read about this moment in which the writer, the late Michael Kelly, very well regarded writer, had been following Ted Kennedy around for an authorized profile for GQ magazine. Repeated here again was the senior aide in this piece who had really been a pimp. Ted driving drunk on sidewalks on the Cape. This is a habit that he, that his nephew JFK Jr. Had in common with him. When JFK Jr. Didn't feel like sitting in traffic, he would just get up and drive on sidewalks, he would often drive high, knowing that the cops would just let him go because they would be so starstruck. And when this happened once with Carolyn Bessette in the car and she said, how. I don't understand how they'll just let you off. Like they can smell the marijuana permeating this vehicle, he said. John Jr. Said there is an unwritten law in Massachusetts whereby Kennedys can commit murder and nobody blinks an eye. He wasn't kidding. All the underage girls that Ted had. But there was a new account in this GQ piece. The sexual assault of a waitress in D.C. uncle Ted attacking her with his equally disgusting friend, the Senator, Chris Dodd. Excuse me. As GQ reported. This is from the piece as she enters the room. This is the waitress. The 6 foot 2, 225 plus pound Kennedy grabs the 5 foot 3, 103 pound waitress and throws her on the table of this restaurant. She lands on her back, scattering crystal plates and cutlery and the lit candles. Several glasses and a crystal candlestick are broken. Kennedy then picks her up from the table again. This is from the GQ piece and throws her on Dodd, who is sprawled in a chair with the waitress on Dodd's lap. Kennedy jumps on top and begins rubbing his genital area against hers, supporting his weight on the arms of the chair. As he is doing this, another waitress enters the room. They both scream. The waitress who is being assaulted and the waitress who had entered the room drawing one or two dishwashers. Senator Kennedy leaps up. He laughs, bruised, shaken and angry over what she, my opinion, rightly considered a sexual assault. The waitress runs from the room. Kennedy, Dodd and their dates. They had women with them who watched this and stood there and did nothing and then left with these two. Left shortly thereafter following a friendly argument between the senators over the check. So when Ted Kennedy in Ryan Murphy's Love Story yells at John Jr. This family means something to people. I'm here to say not any fucking more. Now this scene in Love Story rang very true to me. This is a scene in which Carolyn Bessette tells her sister Lauren. Now Lisa, who is Lauren's surviving twin sister, Lauren died in the plane crash caused by John with his recklessness, if not outright suicidality and homicidal tendencies. Carolyn is talking to Lauren about who she needs to choose as her maid of honor for her wedding to John. Listen closely because there's a lot of truth in here. Here we go.
- [56:45]
Carolyn Bessette (Character)
I was. I was thinking about asking Caroline to be my maid of honor.
- [56:54]
Narrator/Advertiser
Caroline kennedy.
- [57:01]
Carolyn Bessette (Character)
She was so hurt I mean, she didn't say that, obviously, but I've never seen her, and I think she feels really excluded. And I. I get that. I do. I mean, it's been really hard to try to integrate the families without risking a leak. And I just. I think maid of honor would go a really long way with her. And I don't know what else to do to make her feel important.
- [57:26]
Rob Shooter
Like, I.
- [57:30]
Carolyn Bessette (Character)
I can't go into my. My wedding, my marriage, with her resenting me.
- [57:37]
Maureen Callahan
Why would she resent you for taking
- [57:39]
Carolyn Bessette (Character)
her only family left away from her? Lauren, the Kennedys are like the Beatles. I feel like Yoko.
- [57:47]
Maureen Callahan
You have sisters, too. Do you care if I resent you? Marisa, of course. Is Richard still walking you down the aisle, or have you upgraded to Ted Kennedy?
- [57:56]
Carolyn Bessette (Character)
That's not what I'm.
- [57:57]
Rob Shooter
Please.
- [57:57]
Maureen Callahan
What.
- [57:58]
Narrator/Advertiser
What do you want me to say, Carolyn?
- [58:00]
Rob Shooter
That.
- [58:00]
Carolyn Bessette (Character)
That you understand.
- [58:02]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, I understand. I just don't think it's going to get you what you want. Lauren. This will mean nothing to her, and it would have meant everything to me. There is so much truth in that scene. Carolyn Bessette did not have a single member of her family as part of either the bride's party or the groom's party. It was all Kennedys. And Carolyn was willing to sacrifice her sibling relationships. She was willing to sacrifice anything to become Mrs. John F. Kennedy, Jr. And the preeminent Kennedy wife and the future first lady of the United States of America. And make no mistake, because that's what a lot of that makeover was about. The dropping 20 pounds and going platinum blonde and dressing in severe black and being as quiet as Jackie. Ever like that? That's what that was all about. There's also. I will give them this. There's. There's good use. It's a little on the nose, but I still. I liked it. In an earlier scene, they've got Carolyn and John dancing to Common People by Pulp, which was a very big alternative hit in the 90s. And that song is all about a rich person slumming it with a poor person, because that feels exciting. There's no other way to get some kind of edge in one's world. And I thought that was. That was a very good music choice. Okay, this next scene has Carolyn Bessette quitting Calvin Klein. This is also true, contrary to a lot of the hagiography surrounding Carolyn. And we saw it in the ABC News documentary that the Nerve went over on our mini a couple of weeks ago. A few people in that documentary were like, oh, oh, oh, Calvin had to fire Carolyn because she just became a distraction. And so she was this poor woman at loose ends, like nobody in New York City would hire her. She was JFK jr's wife. And so she. She was radioact. I'm. Calvin Klein wanted her to stay on for many reasons. And we are going to here in this scene. Calvin Klein. And it's very gratifying. Push back on Carolyn's bullshit as she quits the job and she quits the boss who gave her everything, including entree into a world in which she could get to meet, date, and marry John F. Kennedy, Jr. Here we go.
- [60:40]
Carolyn Bessette (Character)
I think it's become apparent that I can no longer serve you or this company in the way we both would like.
- [60:51]
Rob Shooter
Oh,
- [60:54]
Calvin Klein (Character)
okay. That's not where I thought this conversation was going.
- [60:58]
Carolyn Bessette (Character)
I just think my presence here has become a bit of a distraction. My whole job is to platform and promote your work. And I. I can't do that to my. To my full ability.
- [61:09]
Calvin Klein (Character)
You think you're stealing focus?
- [61:10]
Carolyn Bessette (Character)
No. No. I mean, I know all of this is only temporary.
- [61:17]
Calvin Klein (Character)
Oh, don't downplay it, Carolyn. You're the realization of every woman's dream. America's son has chosen you. It's not a temporary feat. It's a masterstroke.
- [61:26]
Maureen Callahan
He's.
- [61:32]
Calvin Klein (Character)
That being said, a lot of plotting from one who considers himself a visionary. I am feeling a bit blindsided. I've had mentees outgrow their jobs in the past, but not once in my 27 year career as one left. On account of outgrowing me.
- [61:54]
Carolyn Bessette (Character)
No, no, that's not it at all. What you have built here is extraordinary. Extraordinary.
- [62:01]
Calvin Klein (Character)
It's fine.
- [62:03]
Maureen Callahan
He doesn't need the likes of Carolyn
- [62:04]
Calvin Klein (Character)
Bassette to tell him that I clearly miscalculated this relationship.
- [62:10]
Carolyn Bessette (Character)
You haven't. That's why I feel like I need to leave. Because I cannot bear the thought of this being compromised.
- [62:20]
Maureen Callahan
Okay, a couple of quick notes before we get to the heart of that scene. Um, Calvin says you think you're stealing focus. That is a phrase that was not popular in the 90s. And I don't believe people began saying that until post social media, post the invention of Facebook and Instagram. Probably Instagram. Secondly, Calvin calls her one of his mentees. Again, it's proteges. People didn't start misabusing that malapropism until the aughts, at least. Again, this scene goes to Carolyn's heartlessness and her bloodlessness in her vaulting ambition to become Mrs. John F. Kennedy Jr. And Calvin calls her on that in the scene, she's like, I didn't know this was going to happen, and now I can't really work for. And he's like, fucking cut the shit, okay? You got John F. Kennedy, Jr. The most eligible bachelor in America to marry you. That's a masterstroke. He knew the level of scheming and planning and plotting and manipulation that went into that. He knew. And that scene ends very nicely. Again, I think this was a brilliant musical choice for the end of this scene. It's Venus and Furs by the Velvet Underground and Nico. And we see Calvin turn his back on Carolyn as she leaves the office. And he closes the door on her, and he closes the drawer, not only on the design that he had worked up for her wedding dress, because he. When he said, I wasn't expecting this from this conversation. What he was clearly expecting, and the real Calvin was clearly expecting, was A, an invitation to that wedding as a guest of honor, and B, an ask to please design what will be the most famous wedding dress in American history since. In actually, the most famous wedding dress since Princess Diana's wedding dress. Okay, so in Western Civilization. But he was shut out. He had served his purpose for Carolyn. And now we're going to Cumberland Island. I'll talk a lot about Cumberland island on next week's show. I went there. I went there and I went to the chapel where they were married. And it's not at all as it's depicted in this show, but in this scene, Ann, Carolyn's mother, confronts her daughter before the wedding. And while no one really knows what Ann said to her daughter, it is of historical record that Ann was against this marriage. That she thought that John F. Kennedy, Jr. Was a liability, if not an outright danger to her daughter's health and well being. And she was effing right. Here we go.
- [65:09]
Advertiser
You quit Calvin Klein. You gave up your apartment. Your own sisters aren't even your maid of honor. I just see you doing a lot for him.
- [65:18]
Carolyn Bessette (Character)
I didn't do any of that for him.
- [65:21]
Advertiser
I see you making your life smaller.
- [65:24]
Carolyn Bessette (Character)
Aren't relationships supposed to be about compromise?
- [65:26]
Advertiser
What has he compromised on this wedding? What else? He.
- [65:35]
Carolyn Bessette (Character)
He hasn't really. We want the same things.
- [65:39]
Advertiser
The governor's mansion, the White House.
- [65:41]
Carolyn Bessette (Character)
No, we talked about all this when I didn't immediately accept his proposal. We figured it out. He's not interested in politics.
- [65:51]
Advertiser
Oh, Carolyn, of course he is. Please tell me you know that that's not who he is. Not who he is? Who is he? I don't think he has Any idea? All he knows is who he's supposed to become. The heir to Camelot. That's the only thing the world has ever told him. If there is no Camelot, then what was the point of all this loss?
- [66:25]
Carolyn Bessette (Character)
He could walk away from all of that tomorrow.
- [66:28]
Advertiser
Toward what?
- [66:34]
Maureen Callahan
Me. Mom. Well, that was never going to be enough. Carolyn was never going to be enough. As it was, John came home whenever he felt like it before they got married, and she just hung around that apartment all day long after she quit Calvin and did nothing with herself. Her mother was right, and her mother was absolutely right that John planned to run for office before his death. He was openly talking to his friends about running for the Senate seat that eventually he ceded to Hillary Clinton. And then he said he wanted to run for governor, as he told at least one friend, because I'm better suited to executive experience. Says the guy who's driving his magazine into the ground. And then he was going to run for president. And people who were close to him told me for ask, not that they all knew everybody in his circle, that he would make a run for the White House one day and that because he was JFK Jr. In their estimation, he would probably win. You know? Now, before we get to this last little scene there, they. They shoot this again. I think this is ghoulish. I think this is a romanticization and a fetishization of violent death. They shoot Carolyn and John naked in the ocean. You know, basically having sex is the implication. And then the camera pulls back, and the water and the sky go from blue life to gray limbo death. And it's ghoulish. It is ghoulish. Don't tell me it's foreshadowing. It is ghoulish. Now, before the wedding, Narciso Rodriguez, who. Carolyn made an end run around Calvin and had Narciso, who is one of Calvin's designers, design her wedding dress. He brings it into the room, and he is promptly reminded that now that. Again, shades of Meghan Markle. Now that Carolyn's about to become American royalty, Narciso's not a best friend anymore. He's the fucking help. Here we go.
- [68:33]
Carolyn Bessette (Character)
Where have you been?
- [68:34]
Rob Shooter
I blew a fuse with a steamer.
- [68:37]
Maureen Callahan
Ta da. Drop Dev.
- [68:40]
Carolyn Bessette (Character)
Okay, zip me up.
- [68:42]
Rob Shooter
There is no zipper.
- [68:44]
Advertiser
We have to put it over your head.
- [68:45]
Narrator/Advertiser
I just did her makeup, and it's flawless. I'm not gonna redo it.
- [68:49]
Carolyn Bessette (Character)
I can't just step into it.
- [68:51]
Advertiser
No.
- [68:52]
Maureen Callahan
We're already a half hour late. Yeah, we still have to do your hair. Shouldn't Someone have thought of this? Yeah, probably.
- [69:00]
Actor/Character in Love Story
You know what?
- [69:03]
Maureen Callahan
I'll figure it out. So that quote, unquote mishap with the wedding gown which caused Carolyn to go into hysterics, led to her being three and a half hours late to a ceremony on an island that was swelteringly hot. Humidity. The way I describe Cumberland island is like take a very heavy bath towel, soak it in boiling water, wrap it tightly over your head, and then try to breathe. And they had elderly people waiting for hours in that kind of heat, getting bitten to bits by these bugs called chiggers. They're microscopic and they cause welts and bleeding. You can't even find them on your body before they've wreaked havoc. There was no water supplied. The bathrooms are public. And they were in another building. And John didn't do the due diligence. They put it on Carolyn here and in the ABC doc. But my reporting has it as John's due diligence to realize that the chapel in which they were getting married had no electricity, no air conditioning, and the windows were painted shut. Everyone was sweating through their clothes. They were soaked by the time Carolyn showed up. And John was no better. He was late, too. So, you know, again, we were told this was the wedding of the century. Other people who John and Carolyn screwed over in inviting only 40 people to their wedding, one of whom was William Kennedy Smith. I'll get into it next week. William Kennedy Smith, very credibly accused rapist. Someone the family knew had a problem, allegedly reportedly, with women. He was there. Michael Bergen, Carolyn's boyfriend, on and off boyfriend, who she had most recently been with months before tying the knot with JFK Jr. Told Michael that she had lost yet another pregnancy. This would be the third since she knew Michael. The first two were Michael's babies, and she aborted both of those even though Michael said he wanted to be with her and they would work it out. Then she told Michael she lost her third pregnancy, which he surmised. You can read between the lines in the Other man that it was juniors and that she probably aborted it because she didn't want to spook him. And they spent that night together and they had sex. And then months later, he's walking around town and he sees the New York Post and the front page on some Newsstand. Carolyn's married JFK Jr. That's how he found out. Christina Hogg, John's former girlfriend, who he killed, he almost killed multiple times. Know how she finds out? Christina, who introduced him to Cumberland island where they got married. Same way she said it was like a knife through the heart. Calvin Klein. Gordon Henderson, who is depicted in Love Story as one of Carolyn's mincing little, you know, gay pals at Calvin Klein. Gordon is the black character that we see in. Narciso is the Latin character that we see. Narciso got the call. He got the nod to do the wedding dress and that was a big deal because whoever designed that wedding dress was going to become an overnight sensation, an overnight superstar in the fashion world. Everybody was going to know his name. I am reading from the other man. This is Michael Bergen at home having come across this news coverage of the wedding and he is just in shock. He writes, gordon called me Michael while I was reading an account of the ceremony in the New York Times. Gordon was practically in tears. Carolyn had told him that he would design her wedding dress if and when the day finally arrived, but instead she had gone to Narciso Rodriguez, an up and coming designer. Even worse, Carolyn hadn't invited Gordon to the wedding. That does it. That does it for this edition of the Nerve at Night and our real Talk about Fake people. We will be back on Friday with a full Nerve. If you haven't already, check out our substack atthe nerve show.com Be sure to subscribe plus nerve merch. Grab something for yourself or pick something up for a fellow troublemaker atshopthe nerve.com. you can also listen to the Nerve every Monday, Wednesday and Friday at 9am Eastern on Megan's podcast playlist. And you can find us over on Sirius XM channel 111, the Megan Kelly Channel. A friendly reminder, we are just days away from our Oscars live stream. Be sure to join us live this Sunday, March 15th from our New York City studio at 6:30pm Eastern for the Nerves red carpet coverage and other commentary. We will see See you back here on Friday for a full episode of the Nerve where you will never guess what we're about to say next.
- [74:37]
Narrator/Advertiser
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- [75:06]
Advertiser
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