Nick Reiner's Lawyer Dumps Him, Bryan Kohberger's Family Wants Sympathy, and a Golden Globes Preview

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Nerve with Maureen Callahan

Episode: Nick Reiner's Lawyer Dumps Him, Bryan Kohberger's Family Wants Sympathy, and a Golden Globes Preview
Release Date: January 9, 2026
Host: Maureen Callahan
Featured Guests: Nancy Grace (Crime Commentator), Tim McKay (Celebrity Makeup Artist)

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Episode Overview

This week’s episode of The Nerve is a characteristically bold blend of true crime deep-dives, pop culture snark, and audience engagement. Maureen Callahan is joined by crime analyst Nancy Grace to dissect two headline-grabbing criminal cases: the Nick Reiner double homicide and the fallout as his high-profile lawyer Alan Jackson steps down, plus the controversial New York Times interview with Bryan Kohberger’s sister in the wake of the notorious Idaho murders. Later, celebrity makeup artist Tim McKay joins Maureen for a “hate-watch” and fashion dissection of Netflix’s Emily in Paris, plus an irreverent preview of awards season and rundown of trending movies.

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Key Segments, Insights & Quotes

1. Nick Reiner Case—Lawyer Walks Out

[04:00–14:50]

Key Points:

• Alan Jackson, Hired Gun, Quits
  Moments before Nick Reiner's arraignment, his expensive defense attorney Alan Jackson withdraws from the case without clear explanation.
• Why Did Jackson Quit?
  Nancy Grace attributes the withdrawal to a lack of payment after surviving Reiner siblings refuse to fund the defense (“Mr. Green didn’t show up. I guarantee you, Nick Reiner’s brother and sister said, ‘We are not paying for the defense of the man that murdered our parents.’” [06:44, Nancy Grace]).
• No Ethical Conflict:
  Grace points out Jackson has defended unpopular figures before—if he could represent Harvey Weinstein, conscience is not the issue.
• Public Defender Steps In:
  Kimberly Green, a public defender, takes over the case and appears visibly uncomfortable in her initial court appearance.
• Possible Legal Strategies:
  The likely defense route is either insanity (NGRI) or incompetence, leading to more delays.

Notable Quotes:

• “One reason you take yourself off a case is because you have an ethical problem. ...That’s one reason. The other: you’re not getting paid.”
  —Nancy Grace [06:10]

• “It seemed very clear to me...the siblings said, ‘No effing way is the trust gonna fund his defense.’”
  —Maureen Callahan [07:45]

Memorable Moment:

• Fashion and Media Skills Matter:
  Maureen and Nancy both comment (tongue-in-cheek) that Kimberly Green needs a media coach and a better-fitting jacket, highlighting the role of presentation in high-profile trials.

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2. Bryan Kohberger Case—Sympathy for the Family?

[17:01–30:44]

Key Points:

• Kohberger’s Sister’s NYT Interview:
  The New York Times publishes a “rehabilitative puff piece” on Mel Kohberger, focusing on family pain but largely glossing over the horror of the crimes.
• Critical Analysis:
  Both Maureen and Nancy express frustration that media empathy is directed at the killer’s family rather than the victims.
• Deep Skepticism of Family Ignorance:
  Nancy doubts the narrative that Kohberger’s family was blindsided, referencing extensive phone contact between Bryan Kohberger and his mother just after the murders (“It will be a cold day in H-E-double-L that I believe that mother did not know what was going on.” [22:16, Nancy Grace])
• Comparison to Other Cases:
  The hosts discuss the Gabby Petito case, highlighting limits on civil suits against family members who may have participated in a cover-up.

Notable Quotes:

• “They might as well have done a fashion piece or an interior design piece about where she lived.”
  —Nancy Grace [21:15]

• “Every constitutional right protects the defendant at trial...nowhere are the victims protected.”—Nancy Grace [31:13]

Memorable Moment:

• Maureen reminisces about the era of Dominick Dunne:
  “Dominick Dunne left a huge hole in the culture because we do not have print criminal reporting or high-profile trial reporting the way we used to…” [28:25]

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3. Audience Feedback & Troublemaker Art

[34:06–41:50]

Key Points:

• Chevy Chase Gossip
  Maureen humorously shares anonymous dirt on Chevy Chase’s troubled Hollywood rep.
• Cat-Themed Fan Art
  Listeners send in whimsical, “true crime reporter” art featuring their pets styled as Maureen.
• Biting Listener Comments
  Diverse feedback, including a sharply worded ex-fan letter and a discourse on pop culture figures' public images.

Notable Quotes:

• “Johnny Carson...said [Chevy Chase] was such a witless asshole that he couldn’t improvise a fart after a bean sandwich.” [38:48]

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4. Emily in Paris Hate-Watch with Tim McKay

[50:02–71:32]

Key Points:

• Emily in Paris Moves to Rome—Disaster
  Both Maureen and Tim are baffled by the new season’s settings, costume choices, and lack of character growth.
• Style and Substance Critique:
  The costumes for Emily and Mindy are called “clown outfits” and “distracting.” Only character Sylvie maintains chic credibility.
• Stale Romcom Tropes:
  The show’s ongoing tradition that “every man must fall in love with the protagonist” and scenes designed as filler for viewers to check their phones.
• Materialism Wins the Day:
  The cringiest moment: Emily’s boyfriend tries to buy her affection with a designer bag after relationship drama.
  “What you really want in a man is a guy who’s going to assuage any of your emotional anxieties by taking you shopping.”
  —Maureen Callahan [66:26]
• Sex and the City Parallels:
  The show draws frequent (unfavorable) comparisons to S&TC; creator Darren Starr repeats old tropes but misses the mark.
• Issues With Inclusivity Portrayal:
  Questions are raised about the show’s understanding of real women versus gay male fantasy, especially around pride parade episodes and styling.

Notable Quotes:

• “Emily is the living effing worst.”
  —Maureen Callahan [53:01]
• “Whenever I see them in these ridiculous clown outfits, I’m like, now the show is about to distract.”
  —Tim McKay [61:03]

Memorable Moment:

• Tim’s exasperation at yet another Mindy musical number:
  “Do we really need a performance from Mindy every single episode?...We get it, she can sing. Let’s cut it all out, and we’ll have seven episodes.” [59:13, Tim McKay]

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5. Golden Globes Preview: The State of Movies

[72:08–82:27]

Key Points:

• Disappointment in Awards Contenders
  Maureen and Tim candidly review several buzzed-about films, widely agreeing they are self-important, artsy, or dated:
  • “One Battle After Another”—“A celebration of domestic terrorism...I was so bored.” [73:23]
  • Noah Baumbach’s Clooney vehicle—“Arch, fake, very impressed with itself...it’s just taking me out of the story.” [74:30]
  • “After the Hunt”—Julia Roberts vehicle, found more compelling (“it’s tar light”).
• Critique of Oscar Bait & Virtue Signaling
  Referencing Crash vs. Brokeback Mountain: sometimes the “political” film wins, not the best.
• Comedic Take on “Marty Supreme”
  The hosts mock Timothy Chalamet’s efforts:
  “He’s the opposite of cool. He thinks he’s cool, which automatically means he’s not cool.” [80:09]

Notable Quotes:

• “Sometimes it’s fun to go to a movie that’s not trying to be an Oscar movie and knows it’s kind of sloppy.”
  —Tim McKay [81:24]

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• Nick Reiner case & lawyer withdrawal: 04:00–14:50
• Kohberger/NYT controversy & criminal justice debate: 17:01–30:44
• Audience feedback & fan art: 34:06–41:50
• Emily in Paris hate-watch: 50:02–71:32
• Golden Globes & film critiques: 72:08–82:27

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Selected Memorable Quotes (With Timecodes)

• “Mr. Green didn’t show up. I guarantee you, Nick Reiner’s brother and sister said, ‘We are not paying for the defense of the man that murdered our parents.’”
  —Nancy Grace [06:44]

• “She better do better in front of a jury than she did at that podium.”
  —Nancy Grace on Kimberly Green [14:50]

• “It will be a cold day in H-E-double-L that I believe that mother did not know what was going on.”
  —Nancy Grace [22:16]

• “Emily is the living effing worst.”
  —Maureen Callahan [53:01]

• “He’s the opposite of cool. He thinks he’s cool, which automatically means he’s not cool.”
  —Maureen Callahan [80:09]

• “Sometimes it’s fun to go to a movie that’s not trying to be an Oscar movie.”
  —Tim McKay [81:24]

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Conclusion

This episode delivers everything “The Nerve” promises: sharp true crime analysis, with a heavy dose of media skepticism and cultural commentary. Maureen and Nancy Grace interrogate the intersection of family, media, and justice in high-profile cases. The episode pivots seamlessly to pop culture, lampooning empty television tropes and awards season films that fail to impress—a treat for listeners who want intelligence with their irreverence and aren’t afraid of a little controversy.

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For listeners:

• Victim advocacy is a throughline: Nancy Grace repeatedly emphasizes the lack of systemic support for victims’ families.
• Pop culture and true crime inform each other: The hosts draw parallels between legal cases and their cultural portrayal.
• Listener engagement is encouraged—from critical feedback to meme fan art.
• Unfiltered, humorous, and unafraid of ruffling feathers—true to Maureen Callahan’s brand.

Transcript

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[Maureen Callahan]

Hello and welcome to your Friday edition of the Nerve. I am your host, Maureen Callahan, and we have another packed show for you today. First, we are going to talk about the Nick Reiner case and bombshell developments this week. His arraignment was scheduled for Wednesday morning, but moments before his high powered and highly expensive attorney, Alan Jackson dropped himself out of the case, we are going to get into the hows and the whys of that. Plus an update from none other than Brian Poberger's sister, who has a little sob story she's selling over to the New York Times. And who better to discuss both of these with than the one and only Nancy Grace. She will be joining us very shortly. After that, we'll lighten things up a little bit. We've got your incredible feedback. More troublemaker art. And then later in the show, one of your favorites, the celebrity makeup artist Tim McKay is back for our next hate watch, Emily in Paris. We cannot wait to take her to the woodshed. Okay, troublemakers, are you ready? Are you ready? Let's go. As the weather gets colder, blood pressure tends to rise due to multiple factors. You've got the narrowing of blood vessels, increased cravings for salt and less physical activity. But you have the ability to take control with 120Life. 120Life is a blend of great tasting super fruit juices that can help lower your blood pressure naturally. It is trusted by over 1000 health professionals and used by people just like you who have seen real, real measurable results. You can try it Yourself risk free with their two week trial. Just go to 120life.com and use code nerve, that's N E R V e, to save 15%. You can track your progress with a simple blood pressure monitor. Watch your numbers drop and feel the difference. Plus, it's completely risk free. If you don't see lower numbers in two weeks, you get your money back. Go to 120life.com, that's 120life.com and remember to use code nerve to save 15%. This is serious. This is your life we're talking about. And 120 life can help. Don't wait. Take control of your health today. Joining us now, we all know her very well. Former prosecutor and host of former Fox One's Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The one and only Nancy Grace is back here at the Nerve. Nancy, welcome.

[Nancy Grace]

Thank you for inviting me. And I don't like what you just said. In the famous words of Batman on Lego, Lego. I don't like anything you just said because you said, you suggested that I'm, like, dark and morbid and you're gonna lighten things up after me, okay? No, no, it's not lighten things up when we get rid of her.

[Maureen Callahan]

No, I'm talking about Brian Kohlberger and Nick Reiner.

[Nancy Grace]

No, no, no.

[Maureen Callahan]

Never.

[Nancy Grace]

Where do you want me to start?

[Maureen Callahan]

Invite somebody on the show to just slam them. Never. We are so happy to have you. We are so happy to have you. So first, Darren Kohberger.

[Nancy Grace]

I'm ready.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay. First, let's load it on both. Great. Let's do Alan Jackson first. So this was a bombshell and I'm really very interested in your thoughts. Pursuant to the law in California, Nick Reiner is not guilty of murder. Print that. Print that. We wish him the very, very best moving forward. And that's all I have today.

[Nancy Grace]

Let's talk about Rob Reiner and Michelle Singer. Reiner first. And that leads me to their son, who now the word on the street is he was treated for schizophrenia. You know what? We'll see. We'll see if that's real. But I want to talk to you, as you just suggested, about his defense attorney, Alan Jackson. Very highly paid, some estimates up to a thousand an hour. I don't know that I believe that. But he represented Weinstein. So the reason I bring that up is because clearly he did not get off this case for any ethical problem. Okay? If he's gonna represent Harvey Weinstein with a clear conscience, this case should not bother him. So that's one Reason you take yourself off a case is because you have an ethical problem. You can't go forward. I came off one case, my entire prosecution career because I had an ethical problem. I met the woman charged with murdering her boyfriend. I spoke to her. I didn't think she did it. I got off the case and went to another lawyer. He lost it at trial. And guess what? Guess what? About five years later, I get a call. I'm busy. I'm like, da. And they went, hey, do you know Lynn? I can't remember her last name right now. Lynette. Boo. Boo. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, what? She wants a job recommendation. That was the woman I didn't think did it. No, no, no. She just stabbed her boyfriend dead. And I'm trying to get the old file. I'm like, yeah, okay. So that's one reason you get off case. You got an ethical problem next. Maybe you have a problem representing them because you got a conflict of interest. Let's just pretend you and I rob a bank together. And I say, listen, you don't start firing, and the minute you get in, you're all Barney Fife, and you bang, bang, bang, bang. You shoot the teller. I'm like, I'm totally ratting her out at trial. One lawyer cannot represent the two of us because we have conflicting interest. No man can serve two masters. Does he have a conflict of interest? No. So what's left? I'll tell you, Mr. Green didn't show up. Mr. Green, I guarantee you, Nick Reiner's brother and sister said, we are not paying for the defense of the man that murdered our parents. He can have a public defender. Enjoy.

[Maureen Callahan]

And I think. Exactly.

[Nancy Grace]

Realize.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, that's exactly what I think, too. From all reports, Alan Jackson, who most recently got Karen Reed off, and Karen Reed is now, by all reports, flat broke. So he requires at least a seven figure retainer. It seemed very clear to me that after the shock of the murders wore off of the surviving siblings of Nix Jake and his sister Romy, that they said, no effing way is the trust gonna fund his defense. Now, this is my question. First of all, is it legally required that the lawyer give notice. Notice to the court at the next court date, or was Alan Jackson trying to do Nick Reiner a little bit of a solid and say, hey, like, I am abandoning you because you cannot pay my rate, but I'm going to do you a solid and get this arraignment kicked down the road another month.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, you can give them that credit, but the reality Is. Is when you change lawyers, there's almost always practice not automatically required under the law that there is a delay continuance, a further notice, as it is called. But it always happens because the needle lawyer walks in and says, hey, I'm not ready. This could be. Here's your choices. A guilty plea, not going to happen. A ngbri not guilty by reason of insanity plea, which means I did it, but I. I did it, but I was insane at the time. A jury can come back with guilty but mentally ill. He could try incompetency. He, she. The new lawyer, Kimberly Green, will probably try incompetency, which means another delay. Reiner's not competent to aid her in his defense, so they'll send him away to a hospital. He'll get drugs and therapy. When he's better and he can help her defend him, he will go on trial. But that's just, you know, stopgap measure. So that's incompetency or the ultimate. Which is where I think they're going. An insanity, mental defect type defense.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes. So that would be.

[Nancy Grace]

Let's take a bar. Well, in a facility till he's well.

[Maureen Callahan]

Right. So. So Alan Jackson in his courthouse presser on Wednesday said flat out, I can guarantee you Nick Reiner will not be found guilty of murder. And I thought that was interesting because he won't be found guilty of murder, but as you said, he'll be found guilty or plead out, you know, criminally, you know, insanity or incompetence, what have you. I want to take a look at the. The incoming and aptly named Kimberly Green. This kind of reminds me of all of the weird names in the Coburger trial, which, you know, he played out eventually. But, you know, one of the lawyers was Ann Taylor. We had. Judge. Judge. It was crazy. Kimberly Green seems aptly named to me because this woman seems petrified before the assembled media and actually has to be told by one of the reporters questioning her, hey, lady, you need to move closer to the mics, okay? You're being drowned out by traffic. Here we go. Ms. Green.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

This morning.

[Maureen Callahan]

I spoke to Mr. Writer briefly this morning. How is he taking the news?

[Reporter/Interviewer]

He was understanding that there was going.

[Maureen Callahan]

To be a joint in council. We haven't had any.

[Tim McKay]

Have you his family?

[Reporter/Interviewer]

I have not.

[Tim McKay]

His former attorney says he's not guilty. Will he be pleading not guilty?

[Maureen Callahan]

We'll discuss that with Mr. Rer and see if I. Does Alan's decision complicate the case for you at this time? It's not uncommon for private counselors. I mean this, I think Nancy, is where you see a lawyer like Alan Jackson worth his weight in gold. With a high profile case like this, you need an attorney who not only knows how to talk to the media and begins selling a story, but loves talking to the media.

[Nancy Grace]

Well, you're absolutely right. And I learned that from the best, Johnny Cochran, my old co anchor, my co host on Cochrane and Grace. You know what he could do, and I mean this in a positive way, he could walk onto the set that night. The show was at 10pm he'd walk on 10 till 10 looking great. I would have been in my office slogging away for hours preparing on whatever the law and the facts were. He would walk in without a shred of paper, sit down and he had it. What is, is an intangible charisma that you have. You can convince juries, judges, anybody of anything, even when you're completely unprepared. He Cochran was a great lawyer. Not saying he wasn't prepared, I'm just saying he didn't have to be prepared. He had it. And Jackson has it. That it factor goes a long way because he was very convincing when he says I guarantee you my client is not guilty of murder. And I my ears pricked up when I heard that, like yours. Not guilty of murder? How about just not guilty? Period. Which leads me to think there will be a mental defect defense. But as to her, she graduated Loyola, she was a great student. She's been practicing well over 10 years. She's tried a lot of cases as a public defender because they don't have a choice. They can say I don't like this case. They're stuck with what they get in court. So they try a lot of cases to her benefit. But that presser did not do her any favor. She needs to stop the pressers.

[Maureen Callahan]

She either needs to stop the pressers or that office needs to invest in a media coach for her and a stylist because even her jacket was ill fitting. And I don't mean this in a superficial flip way.

[Nancy Grace]

I didn't know.

[Maureen Callahan]

Everything tells the story, you know, to go Back to the O.J. case, you know, and it was redone in the Ryan Murphy series as if this was like, like a communal patriarchal assailing of Marcia Clark's hair. But the point was everything tells your story, including your personal presentation.

[Nancy Grace]

I didn't even notice her hair, this Kimberly Green or her clothes. I was trying so hard to hear what she was saying. As a public servant, I had five dresses that I ordered on From a magazine, from a catalog called CH. And they were all under $50. And I had the same pair of shoes resold so many times they knew me. When I would pull up, they're like.

[Maureen Callahan]

Where are the heels?

[Nancy Grace]

So, you know, not every lawyer charges $1,000 an hour. I was more interested in what she had to say, but I couldn't hear it. So those voice and coach suggestions, really a good idea. She. She better do better in front of a jury than she did at that podium. But when it comes to Reiner, I find it very curious. Well, actually probative. He is no longer under suicide watch because he did not have on a suicide smock. He was wearing a inmate outfit, but it was different from gp, which I believe is blue. He was wearing tan pants and a white shirt, which means he's still under, quote, high observation within the Twin Towers CI Correctional Institute. What does that tell me? He's. Oh, oh, and one thing, I don't know if you saw this, but when they started talking about what was happening, he's getting a new lawyer. He looked right over at her and acknowledged her. That guy ain't crazy. He looked in a sea of faces. He understood what was happening, what the judge was saying, what everybody was implying. And he looked over and id'd Kimberly Green as his lawyer. But he's under high observation. And here's a problem. Another Nepo Baby, Sam Haskell, I covered. He murdered his wife May and his in laws who were trying to help raise his children. He was constantly on TikTok and Insta, whining about various restaurants in la. Did not work a lick. His wife paid the house note. His father is a high profile agent to the stars, like Dolly Parton, I mean, megastars. Nepo baby ended up killing himself in Twin Towers and he had been on a suicide watch and taken off. And do I have to say, Epstein, I want this guy to go to trial. I want Reiner at trial. I want to hear, unlike Kohberger and the very weak prosecutor that pled that out, I want this case to go to trial so the siblings left behind will have some answers.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, I mean, as with Coburger, which is. That's the perfect segue. I don't know that we'll ever really get a why. I think the best that we can surmise as. And we will learn more about the dynamics in that house. But he seemed to be full of rage. He had drug issues from a very early age, behavioral issues from a very early age. Rob Reiner gave an interview and I am in no way blaming the victims. In which he did say though, that they went to any number of credentialed experts and they decided the best course of action was not to listen to those people but to listen to their son. And his behavior was escalating and escalating to the point where he was, they were basically, whether they were forced to leave the Conan party or not, they felt they had no choice. Now, Coburger's sister, her name, she goes by Mel, spoke to the New York Times. This piece was published on Wednesday, January 7th. The headline, Her Brother Murdered Four Students. Now she's ready to talk. Well, I'm so happy that she now feels ready to tell her story. The readout in the online version says that Mel is going to talk about the Kohberger families, their pain, their confusion. You know, this thing happened the blink of an eye ago and when. So this, this piece is such a piece of journalistic malpractice. The interviewer, the guy's name is Mike Baker. He, he either does not know nor does he care to read in to the details of this case. But Megyn Kelly took this apart on her show this week in such an incredibly elegant like surgical manner. And I just want to play this bit of that, of part of her evisceration of this and then come back on the other side, Nancy, and get your thoughts. Here we go.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

The mother is at the center of this whole thing because while the father did not even bother to show up to the sentencing, allegedly he wasn't feeling well or was having heart trouble. And Mel stayed home with him. The mother showed up and the mother has been there for Brian all along. When we finally got a hold of his phone records, we found out that the murders which were done at 4 between 4:05 and 4:20am was in a 12 minute span, right in that exact time frame. And he had turned off his phone from like 2:30 to 4:30am there while he committed these crimes. Then he turned his phone back on. So he gets back to his home, University of Idaho, sorry, University of Washington, by let's say 5:45, 6 at the latest, what happens? Or 4:45 5 at the latest, what happens when he gets there? He calls his mother within an hour. We know from his phone records that at 6:13am this is within two hours of having hacked four innocents to death with a knife, just him. At 6:13am he made an attempt to call his mother. A minute later, angry that he couldn't get her, he called his dad, asking why his mother did not answer. At 6:17am he connects with his mother for 36 minutes. At 8:03am he calls his mother again and speaks to her for 54 minutes while driving back to the crime scene in Moscow, Idaho. Why was he doing that? Had she told him, make sure you go back and see about the knife sheath? Had he confessed anything to the mother? It's very hard to believe they didn't discuss it 120 minutes after he did it when he was obviously very insistent on getting a hold of the mother in the first place. At 9am another nine minute conversation with the mother. Totaling over three hours of conversation that day via five calls. None of which is mentioned in this rehabilitative puff piece in the New York Times that did absolutely no kicking of the sisters story or tires.

[Maureen Callahan]

What do you make of it, Nancy?

[Nancy Grace]

Well, you've got a reporter for the New York Times doing a puff piece. That's what it is. They might have might as well done a fashion piece or an interior design piece about where she lived because it did not reach the heart of what this is about. The whole reason we are here is because her brother brutally murdered four innocent people at the get go. We were led to believe that the four victims went to sleep and they woke up in heaven. That is not what happened. One victim was stabbed around 30 times in the face. Her teeth were stabbed out. Another victim was sliced across the jugular and there was arterial bleeding like a water sprinkler in that room. I find it very hard to believe the mother at least did not know anything had happened. Now what concerns me about the article is that the sister was not cross examined on these very critical issues. The issues that actually mattered. Now I'll hand it to the family. They endured Kohberger and all of his bullying and all of his heroin addiction and getting him clean and getting him in school. Great. But that's not why we're here. We're here because he is a four time killer and we're trying to get insight into that, what happened because the prosecutor left us high and dry and it will be a cold day in H E double L that I believe that mother did not know what was going on. I'd like to get her on cross exam. Yes.

[Maureen Callahan]

And so you know the piece. First of all, the accompanying photo to this piece. This woman has like half of her hair is blue. She is dressed in sort of a gothy like studded black ensemble. She says she's been trying to get work in the mental health field but then her Brother murdered four people, and that's put her career in the toilet. She says that. So the one person they did reach out to, Mike Baker in his shoe leather. Steve Goncalves, the father of Ms. Goncalves, said he had sympathy for Mr. Coburger's sisters and the scrutiny they had endured in recent years. But he said he had lingering questions about what Mr. Coburger's parents might have known or suspected. The sister herself, I believe, said that she had witnessed Brian in the aftermath of the murders back at his parents home, putting his own refuse and possibly clothing in Ziploc baggies and then depositing that in the neighbor's trash can. He was driving the same car that the FBI was looking for. And, you know, I just. It's like, is the one possible benefit of this piece that, like, you know, a civil suit gets launched? Because if the mother knew and the mother was helping Brian to cover this up, you know, he, he, he all he said, according to this piece he wrote, as a young man of having no emotions, you cannot tell me that evidence of psychopathy was not there at a younger age. I'm sorry.

[Nancy Grace]

Yes. This is not going to do anything to help male's career in mental health. If she lived with a spree, some say serial killer, and didn't notice anything was wrong, didn't get any clue, no forewarning that he was off the rails for all those years, nobody knew. Yeah, that's not going to help her at all. But we've seen a previous similar attempt when Gabby Petito's family sued the family of Brian Laundrie. Laundrie murdered Gabby. Then he comes back across the country in Gabby's Ford Transit with Gabby's items, her belongings, her phone, but no Gabby. And the victim's family kept trying and trying and trying to call, find Gabby Petito. Where is she? She should have been back. What's happening? They wouldn't take the calls. They had nothing to do with the Petito family desperate to find their daughter. And the Petitos believe that they covered up evidence. That lawsuit has gone really nowhere. So it's going to be hard to prove that they did. But we can deduce that Kohberger's mother did.

[Maureen Callahan]

No.

[Nancy Grace]

With all those phone calls immediately after a quadruple slaying, and he is so insistent. He's got to talk to his mom. Got to talk to his mom about what? The weather, obviously about what had just happened.

[Maureen Callahan]

You know, to your point, this is such a great point. And this, I think, puts the lie to this Assertion that they just had no idea. They were just a nice Catholic family who, like, loved to read Little House on the Prairie and they had no idea they had this psychopath in their family. And to your point about the Gabby Petito case, I think of those cases in which a family member, a close family member does come forward and says, I think that my sibling, my son, my parent is the one responsible. I think about the Unabomber's brother who did not want to go to the Feds, hoped against hope it wasn't his brother, but thought that it was probably was, and he had to do the right thing.

[Nancy Grace]

You know, I very rarely have seen adult children or siblings of killers say, your dad is a killer, your brother is a killer, admit that, yes, he did it. And I don't know why that is. I'm a trial lawyer, not a shrink. But I think that they can't take it in that they did nothing to stop it. And how could you not put together the fact that he's in Pullman 15 minutes. In fact, he used to jog to where? To near where the King Road address was the spot of the murders. And they knew that. They knew he was jogging in that area. And he's got the white Elantra. I mean, how could they not at least consider he was the killer? So, you know, I've spoken with the Gonsalves family many times, many times. And I never once speak to them that I don't walk away feeling like my stomach hurts. Like when you're really, really hungry to where it really just hurts. It just hurts after I talk to them because those families have been done so wrong. And now there's a New York Times piece on the Coburger family pain.

[Maureen Callahan]

I.

[Nancy Grace]

It tastes like a dirt sandwich even saying it.

[Maureen Callahan]

It's so true. It's. You know, it really. Dominic Dunn left a huge hole in the culture because we do not have print criminal reporting or, or high profile trial reporting the way we used to with Dominic Dunn, who would, you know, who spent years trying to, just for one example, get Michael Skakel in front of a jury for the slaying of Martha Moxley. I know that conviction was vacated, but instead we've got crap like this in the New York Times feel sorry for me. My brother is a homicidal maniac who snuffed out four young lives and seemed to enjoy doing it. And it looks like my mom was an accessory after the fact. Just my opinion. But hey, we just want. We just want to reenter polite society. Please. Won't you help us? And the New York Times says, sure, why not?

[Nancy Grace]

I find it so concerning that so much emphasis is placed on the killer and his family when what the victims have been through and what they will go through the rest of their lives. This past Thanksgiving, I cooked a big turkey. And we have a turkey off every Thanksgiving. My husband smokes a turkey, I bake one. And then everybody votes. They always give him the mercy vote. I don't care if the turkey's black. It doesn't matter. He always wins. But we were all gathering together, and I thought about the Gonsalves family and the other families involved, the victims. Because, remember, this happened around Thanksgiving.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah.

[Nancy Grace]

And how can they ever have? I mean, every year, August 6th, all I can think about, that's the day my fiance was murdered. Leading up to it, I feel like crap. I don't know whether to cry or to scream or just try to go to sleep. And then after it. And on that day, I'm. I'm. I try, you know, because I have the twins, you know, gotta try to keep my lamp lit for them. What about losing your child? Your child that. Your heart of your heart. And now they have to read this. I pray to God they didn't look at the New York Times with all the power. The Times has all the influence. That's what they did.

[Maureen Callahan]

Mm, Agreed. I couldn't agree with you more. Well, Nancy, thank you so much for joining us again on the nerve to talk about both the slayings of Rob and Michelle Reiner and what's next in that case and the continuing saga of the Bryan Coburger case and the long shadow that still casts over us. We look forward to speaking with you as these stories develop. Thank you again.

[Nancy Grace]

Thank you for inviting me and. And also being a voice for victims. You know, the Constitution protects the defendant, and I'm not claiming the Constitution is wrong. I get it. I live by the rules. I tried cases by the rules. But nowhere are the victims protected. Nowhere. Every constitutional right protects the defendant at trial and before trial and after trial. I've read those rights to defendants a million times. Every time I took a plea, I'd give the rights again so they would know they don't have to plead they can go to trial. I'd be happy to take them to trial. I want to take them to trial, but nothing for the victims. So I want to thank you. It really means a lot to me to be invited on with you and to hear you speak. Thank you.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, that's so appreciated and quite a compliment when I take very seriously. Thank you Nancy and we will see you soon. Coming up, Troublemaker Feedback we will get into a different little groove. We are back in a minute. We all know about yo yo dieting or what doctors call weight cycling. It's when people lose 10 or so pounds and then put those pounds back on plus a couple of more. It's not only tough on your body but it can be extremely frustrating. The bottom line, most people need help losing weight and a great way is with non prescription Lean. Lean is an oral supplement, not an injection and the science is impressive. Their ingredients target weight loss in three ways by maintaining healthy blood sugar, controlling appetite and cravings, and helping to burn fat by converting it to energy. If you want to lose meaningful weight at a healthy pace and keep it off, add lean to your diet and exercise lifestyle. Get 20% off when you enter [e-mail] that's code [e-mail] packages by Expedia.

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[Maureen Callahan]

We are back and it is time to look at incredible Troublemaker art. Listen to your amazing feedback. You guys are also sending in questions for Belinda Carlisle. She is going to be joining us on the Nerve next week. So if anything occurs to you, anything that you'd like to know about Belinda or her career or her travels or her fashion, just email me. We'll give you the address again towards the a little bit later in the show or DM me on Instagram now. We got a ton of feedback to the Chevy Chase segment we did in which we tore through that CNN documentary about him in which he reveals himself to be an unrepentant treatment resistant and we got such great stuff and I'm going to read just a couple of them to you. Dear Maureen, please do not use my name. Not a problem. I will say the header to this email is Chevy Chase. What a jerk. What I'm about to tell you is technically hearsay. That's okay. We're a cultural criminal court. My former husband grew up as a neighbor to and friends with the brother of Sarah Holcomb. Sarah made her film debut as the mayor's daughter in Animal House and also played Maggie in Caddyshack. My husband told me years ago that when Sarah was in Caddyshack, she hung out with Chevy, allegedly in all caps. Just this troublemaker's report. As a result of her palling around with him, she became addicted to some pretty powerful drugs. She was in such a bad state that she had to drop out of Hollywood in order to get her life back together. As discussed in the doc, Chevy had a heavy, heavy cocaine and alcohol problem. She has been quiet and private all these years, not wanting anything to do with the Hollywood scene, including her notable absence from any Caddyshack retrospectives. Thanks for your very thorough takedown of a very unpleasant individual. Our pleasure. I love nothing more. Chevy Chase. Hi Maureen. I'm currently reading a fun book written by former talk show host Mike Douglas. If you are of a certain age, you will remember the Mike Douglas talk show aired like in the late afternoons. And it was a really, really fun, fun, convivial talk show. His, his book, his memoir was called I'll Be right Back. This troublemaker included a photo of the book jacket, which is so cool. I love old vintage, vintage, you know, redundant. Excuse me, but vintage like celebrity memoir and like celebrity book cover art. Like, and this one is just Chef's kiss. And anyway, Mike writes in his book. This troublemaker Kim took a screenshot of it and sent to me, okay, so this is Mike writing about Chevy being booked on his show to promote one of his National Lampoon vacation flicks. I liked Chevy. Mike writes, and his off the wall humor. Would you believe he didn't show up again? Second time he was booked on the show and just didn't show up. And Mike continues. Never called before or after to apologize or explain. Of over 30,000 guests booked for the Mike Douglas show, we only had a handful of last minute cancellations or missed connections. But the only guest that ever outright stiffed us was Chevy Chase twice. And more than one troublemaker emailed to remind me that Johnny Carson at one point, like Chevy was floated to, to, to Johnny as like a potential like substitute host for the Tonight show and Johnny shot it down right away and he said something, I'm paraphrasing, I'm Going to try to get it as pinpoint as I can, but that Chevy Chase was such a witless asshole that, like, he couldn't improvise a fart after a bean sandwich. Love from Canada. Moving on. Artwork I've created with my cat Daisy, and we're going to show a full screen of it. Daisy is wearing a blonde wig, sunglasses, a triple strand of pearls, and is holding a notebook that reads allegedly, reportedly, the troublemakers. Bonjour, Maureen. This is troublemaker Nadia. Here is some artwork I've created for you using my sweet loving cat Daisy as the subject. This is you reporting on Stedman's whereabouts. I placed her as you gathering evidence while a plane. Look at the. Look at the details. This is a true troublemaker. A plane flies in the background with a rescue Steadman flyer. Oh my God. Plus, I think Oprah deserves her own shed that's in the background. This header. The worst. Hi, Maureen. You're the worst. I hope you get what's coming and lose everything like woman from a former fan turned your biggest hater. Harmony you. I wish you would be more direct. Harmony. What did I do? Okay, that. That made me laugh out loud. Okay, I. This. This feedback may be controversial, but I actually think it's very salient. And this is a troublemaker. Her name is Angela and she is saying the thing that polite media will not say. And you know what? It deserves to be said because I wrote about this in Ask Not. I wrote about the way the horrible, abhorrent way that Caroline Kennedy and her husband Ed treated Ann Freeman, the grieving mother of Carolyn Bessette and Lauren Bessette, who JFK Jr. Through his own recklessness, if not a suicidal murderous impulse, killed her two daughters. And when Anne went to meet with what she thought was going to be a one on one with Caroline Kennedy, Caroline never showed. Instead, she sent her husband Ed, who according to Robert F. Kennedy Jr's diaries, which I have seen with my own eyes and I write about and Ask not. I will never forget the phrasing that RFK Jr used that Ed quote, bullied, bullied, bullied. The shattered, grieving mother. Hi, Maureen. I remember reading that Caroline and her husband Ed were not very sensitive to the Beset family after the plane crash. I hope they haven't experienced similar behavior from others now that they have lost their own daughter to a tragedy. Moving on. Timothy Shalamala Ding Dong. Who some of you have suggested we amend and I kind of like it for awards season to Timothy Shamalama Ding Dong. Ping Pong or Should it just be shortened to Timothy Shyamalama ping Pong? You tell me, dear Maureen. Timothy Chalamet. Don't care if I spell his name right or wrong here. Couldn't agree more. You know, when you see, like, when you see AI, like with Google AI or whatever, and you. You can tell, like, what celebrities are really landing in the culture or have made it because they autocorrect, like, difficult last names. He's one of them. Okay? It's just. It's a harbinger of things to come. Okay, Timmy, this troublemaker says, is an absolute buffoon. I didn't know this troublemaker. Elisa, if I'm pronouncing your name correctly, he proudly proclaims he nearly ruined his own eyesight just so he could wear real glasses for Marty Supreme.

[Nancy Grace]

What?

[Maureen Callahan]

I mean, who the f cares? The audience doesn't know the difference. I agree. I don't even know if I believe it. And also, apparently Timmy has adjusted his timeline of how long he spent in training to be an authentic ping pong. Excuse me, underground ping pong player. And I think we've expanded the timeline from two years to six years, which, I mean, if you're telling me Marty supreme was even written six years ago, I doubt it. I doubt it. I doubt it. Anyway, she. This troublemaker thinks that Timmy has had a deal with the Kardashians that if they promoted his film and won the Oscar he'd proposed to her. Headline subject line, timothy Chalamet's latest cinematic art prefigured by a 2007 garbage comedy film. This is Ryan Troublemaker. Ryan, you are not the only one to point this out. And I love it. Every time I hear about Timothy Chalamet's latest Oscar bait movie, I am reminded of the 2000, 2007 film Balls of Fury. Balls is not a terribly good, just my opinion, screwball comedy. It's a comedy about a high stakes underground table tennis tournament controlled by an East Asian organized crime syndicate. I cannot get over the fact that Chalamet is trying to rig the sport for serious drama. Almost. After almost 20 years since balls demonstrated the ridiculousness of doing so. Hello there, Maureen. Oh, Maureen, you and I both certainly do not judge. As my very judgmental mother used to say, I don't judge. I describe. I love it. Your faithful troublemaker, Jan. Okay, this is the last one I saved. One of this one made me laugh out loud. This is a regular correspondent named Wayne, and I'm also just going to give a shout out right now to Armando of quote, I Love you too much. Armando, we have not heard from you recently. We hope everything is okay. Please email us and let us know how you're doing and that all is well now. This is from troublemaker Wayne again. Dear Maureen, True story. I am pleased to report to you that Stedman Graham is back home and is. I have to let Teddy know. I have to let him know of this latest update in his ongoing open investigation and still in one piece after his latest harrowing assignment with Delta Force. In Wayne's version of Stedman's alternate life, his explanation, his. His. His absence from the scene, let alone Oprah's side or vicinity, has to do with Stedman being special Ops in Delta Force, which is involved. Which involved snatching Venezuelan President Maduro and his wife. In fact, Stedman has asked me to convey a personal message to you. Stedman writes Maureen on the way back to the chopper. Mrs. M assaulted me pretty badly. For a while I didn't think the biting, kicking and screaming would ever end. You have to understand that I haven't been pummeled that bad since I told Oprah. Maybe she should start thinking about losing a pound or two. But the wife of a dictator in despot could never match Oprah's sadism. No, not even in the same league. Oprah would tie me to a chair. Then she and Gail would flick lit cigarettes at me. And the evil laughter and cackling never let up. I still wake up in the middle of the night in cold sweats hearing Oprah's voice. I am the devil's daughter, Stedman. And you just crossed the line. Her eyes were glowing luminescent green and red. They both had grown pointed tails and sprouted horns. And they were now standing before me on hooves. In a burst of adrenaline, I managed to get my hands to free. I vaulted from the abandoned warehouse where she was holding me captive. I can still hear her words echoing in the night air. As long as you are alive, Stedman, you will never be safe. You can run, but you can't hide. I am the devil's daughter. Do you hear me, Stedman? I am the devil's daughter. True story. Stedman. Get a burner phone man. Reach out to Nerve hq. Go to a library. Go to a public library. A public space, an Internet cafe. Do it. Do an anonymous URL and get in touch with us. We will send. Teddy is ready to send SEAL Team six for an extraction. Please keep the feedback coming. Email me at maureenvilmaycaremedia.com or DM me on Instagram @maureen callahanriter or henerveshow. And remember to subscribe to the Nerves Substack. It's just our weekly dedicated email to Troublemakers with great additional proprietary content. And we've also decided that's where we're going to start putting specific pieces of Troublemaker art. And we're going to be talking to the Troublemaker artists about their inspiration, their method, their process, and what about the show hits them the way it does. You can do that over at the Nerve show. Plus we are putting out a call for an intern and that call involved emailing Paul from New Zealand and saying, hey Paul, would you mind making us some art so we could post this on Instagram? And he was like, sure, no problem. The next morning we had two versions in our inbox. Paul, we salute you. We will have all the details up on the Nerves Instagram page, so take a look for that. We are ideally looking for someone in the Tri State New York area. Not required, but ideal. And if so, if you think you have the nerve to be our next intern, please get in touch with us. Up next, Tim the celebrity makeup artist is here. Back in a minute. Your liver does more than you'll probably ever know, but let me tell you a little bit. It handles energy, hormones, digestion and even your mood. But stress toxins and processed foods are constantly overloading it. So what can you do? Introducing Peak's Liver Detox Protocol. This two step system is both gentle and powerful. Peak leverages nature's most potent botanicals, minerals and vitamins and combined with their cutting edge extraction technology, creates supplements that make a difference. Their protocol has two main parts. A strong Sri Lankan turmeric mixed with cinnamon and black pepper to help your body absorb it better. 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[Maureen Callahan]

We are back, and Tim McKay, aka Tim the Celebrity makeup artist, is here for our next hate watch. It is Emily in Paris, and we're going to start with the first two episodes, and then you guys tell us if you need us to gut it out through the other four to six episodes or if you would like us to move on to something. I'm playing with the idea of next doing a show that we actually love to watch. I mean, the Pit just came back on HBO Max yesterday on Thursday, and I haven't had a chance to dive in yet, but I cannot wait. I love, love, love the Pit. So, you know, let us know your thoughts on that, and we'll do what you want. As I always say, you're the boss. Tim. Happy New Year. Welcome back.

[Tim McKay]

Hey, Maureen. Happy New Year. I'm so excited to be back here at the Nerve, and so good to see you as always.

[Maureen Callahan]

Same. You're looking very well rested and refreshed.

[Tim McKay]

Thank you. Thank you. I had a. I've actually had a pretty busy start to 2026, which I'm grateful for, because this is, like, my dead time, not a pink one.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, really?

[Tim McKay]

Yeah. I feel like once the holidays hit, like, you know, everything slows down. Productions, like press slows down. So I'm excited to just be booked at all, and I'm excited to be here with you. So, you know, gotta go with the flow.

[Maureen Callahan]

I love it. Okay, so we're gonna get started with episode one of Emily in Paris, which comes back to us now as Emily in Rome. I do not approve. I do not approve. Paris is Paris. Rome is a whole other kettle of fish. There's something extremely aspirational, and it kind of leans into the whole, like, just, like, really unapologetic femininity of the show. You know, this fantasy of this young woman in Paris and everything falling into her lap. But now we're in Rome, and it's almost like a needle scratch on a vinyl album. We've got a new haircut. We've got a new color palette. I do not like the costuming. We'll talk about all of that. We've got zero personal or professional growth. We're going to start with Emily confronting her actual boss, the sophisticate Sylvie, who I love. I love this character. I love this actress. Emily doesn't like it that Sylvie has decided to plant her flag in the best office in the Rome outpost of Sylvie's company. Here we go. And also, wasn't this supposed to be my office? Let's not get hung up on hierarchy.

[Nancy Grace]

Emily, you're welcome to use that stool when I'm gone.

[Maureen Callahan]

Since we're sharing, I would appreciate it if you wouldn't spoke in here or anywhere in the office for that matter.

[Tim McKay]

So many rules.

[Nancy Grace]

If you insist.

[Maureen Callahan]

I really do, Tim. I find everything about this character insufferable. You know, when I first started watching Emily in Paris, I just kind of leaned into, like, the. It was like a fantasy. It's like bon bons just going down really smoothly. And then once you started, like, going into, like, viewer comment threads and Reddit threads, which I love to do, there would be plenty of provocateurs in there going, no, no, no, Emily's the worst. And once you start watching it through that lens, you can't unsee it. Like, Emily is the living effing worst. Telling her boss on. On in the real estate she's paying for that she can't smoke a cigarette out a window if she so desires. And then just, just. I really do. I really, I really insist. I have to underscore that. I have to underscore myself. Smug, unearned superiority. Am I overreacting, Tim?

[Tim McKay]

No, you're not. Because it is Sylvie's company, so she should literally be able to do whatever she wants. And also, I don't know if it's the same episode or if it's another episode, but she tells Sylvie she can't even vape and vaping. I'm sorry, I know a lot of people don't like vaping indoors, whatever, but, like, this is the head of the company. Like, it's honestly. And you don't smell it. It doesn't leave a smell. It doesn't leave, it doesn't linger. And it's her own office. You would even know if you didn't catch her. You wouldn't even know she was vaping. So it just, it's ridiculous that she has so much authority. But I feel like this show is trying so hard to make Emily, like, this grown up all of a sudden. Like, that's why they gave her that blunt haircut. And like, they're putting her in these big Boxy, like men. Almost like tuck blazers. And it's just kind of like they're trying to make her this boss and I'm just not buying it. Like, I liked the princess aspect, like you said, like that fun, frivolous girl in Paris. They can't do that forever. But I just don't buy what they're trying to do with her now.

[Maureen Callahan]

I don't buy it either. You know the other thing. So the hot French chef, Gabrielle, right? I don't know.

[Tim McKay]

He's totally sidelined this season.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah. And I thought he actually quit the show. Did he, didn't he quit the show? Didn't he make a big stink? Like, I'm too good of an actor for this garbage?

[Tim McKay]

I wouldn't be surprised, I wouldn't be surprised if he did that after this season for sure. Because I'm like, I don't know what they must have done to bring him back, but I also don't know why there's already like some five love interests on this show. They're like, it's just, there's too many people. Half of them are weak men anyways that like, have no spine. And I don't know what they plan on doing with him. Like, they just kind of were like, okay, we're gonna ship you off for half the series, maybe even longer than that. Half the season, at least.

[Maureen Callahan]

I know. It's so strange. And you know what I. What I hate. And I feel like we should give it the sort of appellation of like, it's like the Sarah Jessica Parker rule of writing rom coms. Like, every man has to fall in love with her. Every man has to be heartsick over her. Every man has to follow her, like big followed Carrie over to Paris. That would never. As discussed in real life. He'd be on, you know, he'd be dating an only fans model, you know, an influencer, whatever, you know. But Gabrielle follows Emily over to Rome so he can mope around and get a pep talk from Sophie about how Emily's new love interest isn't gonna last. So this brings us to our next. Our next clip in which this is one of those tropes I truly loathe. I loathe it. It's the young fashionista again. It's a Sarah Jessica Parker rule. I wear heels everywhere. I just wear 6 inch platform heels everywhere. Even if we're gonna go hunting in the woods for truffles. And my new boyfriend has told me repeatedly I should swap out those shoes for sneakers. I, I just, I have to be me. And you know what? I'm a brainless effing fashionista. Here we go. Ah, those are your shoes. Oh, yeah. I wasn't totally informed of the plans. That's a lie.

[Nancy Grace]

Those shoes are for the Runway.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, no, it's okay. I'll be fine. And I'm so excited to be truffle hunting. But I thought that you used pigs.

[Nancy Grace]

Oh, no, they stopped using pigs years ago.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, they're too aggressive. Aggressive and didn't know when to stop. Well, that's not very good. Anyway, I love dogs and they love me. The dog speaks for us all. Get out of our faces. Back off, sister. Tell me your thoughts about that scene, Tim.

[Tim McKay]

I mean, she's ridiculous, but I also feel like, what a boring scene. Like, they're like, let's have a scene of them going truffle hunting, like going through the woods. Truffle? Is that what the show. It's filler. It's like in a short 10 episode show. Now do we really have time to just make our main character look dumb by in these stilt shoes walking through the mud and looking for mushrooms? And then what? She finds what she thinks is the right mushroom, but it's the wrong mushroom. And they're like, ha, ha ha. What was the point of that? What was the point of this scene? I just don't get what they're trying to do in the show anymore. It's so filler. Everything feels like filler.

[Maureen Callahan]

Well, you know, that's a deliberate thing and it's been going on for quite a while now. Those scenes are deliberately written into scripts, whether it's for script, streaming or network or movies, because they all know they're competing with the. The primary screen, which is this. So those scenes, those are written so that you can. Then you can get bored. You know, your wiring is like, oh, I want to go and see what's going on on Instagram. And then you're like, wait, I'm watching this thing. And you can go back and you can dip in and out and like, there's no problem whatsoever. It's so depressing. It's so depressing. It makes me really long for the days when like, like a filmmaker, like every single cut, every single moment, every single look, every single line, it all meant something and was like contributing to this greater piece of art that, you know, by the time you're through with it, you know, I just did. I just did a Redford binge after he died. And I like, I watched Three Days of the Condor for The second time, and I was blown away again because it was so rich, you know? It was so rich.

[Tim McKay]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

And you just don't get.

[Tim McKay]

Yeah, no, I agree with you. And this show is the complete opposite of that. Like, do we really need a performance from Mindy every single episode? Like, I get it. No. Like, I get it.

[Maureen Callahan]

No, make it stop.

[Tim McKay]

You're a theater girl. We get it. I saw her when she was on Broadway when she was in Mean Girls. Like, so I get it. Like, let's bring her on TV and let her perform. We don't need that every episode. This isn't like a musical show. We get it. She can sing and the costumes, like, you're dressing her up like a circus freak so that she can perform every episode. And we don't need it. The show does not need it. Let's cut it all out, and we'll have seven episodes.

[Maureen Callahan]

And this is how, you know, they don't know what to do with her character anymore. They should have written her off. They should have just sent her back to Asia and made her, like, a major star of, like, their version of Idol or the Voice or whatever and just be done with it, because they.

[Tim McKay]

Are trying to make her a star. They're like, oh, my God, Everyone in Italy knows you. Like, everyone in Rome. Seen you on TikTok. I'm like, how. How does everyone know Mindy? Like, the show wants Mindy to be this big celebrity for some reason, and I'm not buying it. I don't like it. I don't.

[Maureen Callahan]

I don't like it. I don't like it either. And you can tell they don't know what to do with her because now they're pairing her with Emily's ex boyfriend and trying to make that, you know, and it's like, there's never been a spark between them. There's never been a hint of competition. Like, make the show interesting, make Emily and Mindy very competitive as their careers advance. Like, bring some friction in here. Drama needs conflict, and I don't think the stakes are high enough here. And speaking of conflict, Tim, I needed to talk to you about Emily's costumes, because these feel visually very aggressive. We're wearing, like, these green and white stripes that just. And the green platforms and, like, I don't know if this is a skirt or a skort or whatever. And then she's. We see her next in, like, this blue and white chinoiser. A. Like, she looks like a table setting. You know, I don't. And it's. It's it's aggressive and it's hard to look at. What do you think they're doing here?

[Tim McKay]

And it's not even just her, Like, Mindy, I feel like, is even more extreme. Like, Mindy's outfits got me furious, like, watching the show and she walks out with that stupid little conductor's hat and, like, the green outfit, the mint. But yeah, with Emily, like, her costumes, too, I just. I don't know why they only give the good costumes to Sylvie. They said everything that Sylvie wears, even when it's a little bit bold, will still be on brand and still, like, elevate her. Whereas these two, like, it's almost like it's distract. Remember my role. Like, when you have not much to talk about, the show likes to distract. So it seems like whenever I see them in these ridiculous clown outfits, I'm like, now the show is about to distract. Because now, like, they don't even care if we're listening to the words they. All they're saying is like, oh, let's look at that teapot costume that she's wearing next to, like, Ms. Orange. And, like, it just. None of it makes sense. Like, I know that I love a little fantasy in a show. I love a little, like, lack of realism, but this show just looks. You can't have these girls parading down the street like that while everyone else looks totally normal. And no one's looking at them, no one's giving them side eye. No one thinks it's weird. They're just.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yep.

[Tim McKay]

That's just how they dress here.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes. Yes. And also, two young professionals working in media, which they both are, would. Would be on TikTok and Instagram all day long looking at the codes for Rome. For a media person in Rome. How do I dress? How do I dress to stand out just a little bit, but to work myself into the culture and the way that women my age look in that culture or the kind of woman I want to be totally dead on. Tim, as usual, I love. Thank you for reminding me of your distract rule. You're so right. So right. So now we're going to cut to. This is now we're in episode two, and Emily is. We're talking about a grandmother we've never heard of. We don't know. There's a lot of expository dialogue. I hate exposition. It means the writing is bad. The writing is bad and it's clunky. So she unwraps this vintage Fendi bag that she says her grandmother has given her before she goes to a Meeting with Fendi. You tell me, Tim, if you would wear the label while you're going to the label. I don't. I don't know if that's kosher or not, but anyway, she shows it to Mindy, who is nothing but electrified to see this artifact and Mindy's. And not Mindy. Sorry. Emily's being a complete. To Mindy. Here we go. So I have a meeting. Oh. With one of my favorite brands today.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

No Fendi.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, if grandma could see me now. Oh, no. Is Granna Ghost, too? What?

[Reporter/Interviewer]

No.

[Maureen Callahan]

She lives in Lake Bluff. I still can't believe that she gave this to me. She loved it so much. You've never let me see it in daylight. It's stunning. No natural oils until the beeswax leather conditioner dries. Okay. I'm surprised you brought it to Rome. Wanna leave it with you in Paris? Who knows what you get up to while I was away. So if you're just listening, Emily gave Mindy a smackdown like, don't you dare touch my Fendi until all the oil has. Has completely dried. And I couldn't leave it with you anyway because you're just trash. And, you know, you might take my Fendi without even asking me, and then I don't know what you would do with it, like, carry it around town. She's such a.

[Tim McKay]

And also, we've never. Have we ever seen this bag before? In the other four seasons that she was in Paris, what was it like shoved under her bed that we've never heard of it, seen it anything before? And she was like, I don't want you to use it. Like, what are you talking about? She probably didn't even know you had it. Like, well, apparently she did now, because they're talking about it as if, like, oh, that's the bag about your. That your grandmother had that fake expositional conversation that you're saying. But I. Yeah. No, we never even heard of this bag. So Mindy didn't even know about this bag. This bag is stupid. And, no, she shouldn't bring it with her to this meeting and hold it right in front of her, thinking she's, like, missed Miss Thing. Because as we know, it doesn't even turn out to be real, so.

[Maureen Callahan]

Exactly. Metaphor of all metaphors. The bag turns out to be a fake. But also, if you think you have a real Fendi and it's a vintage one that belonged to your grandmother and not only has, like, actual value in the marketplace, but sentimental value to you. Would you really? Again, you're a Fashionista. Okay, Would you really put it in its dust bag and then put it in a cheap plastic bin from the Container Store and then put it underneath your bed? Is. Wouldn't you put it in some sort of climate control or, like, you know, like, none of it makes sense? Okay, so anyway, Emily comes to find out the bag is a fake, and then she's worried that her boyfriend of, like, five seconds, very, very eligible bachelor, is cheating on her. And so this is another trope I hate. I hate, because I think it pushes really distorted messaging to girls and young women, which is that materialism conquers all and that what you really want in a man is a guy who's going to assuage any of your emotional anxieties by taking you shopping. Here we go.

[Tim McKay]

Pick any bag you want.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, that's so generous, but you don't have to. I've recovered from my whole fake Fendi fiasco.

[Tim McKay]

Susan, tomorrow to bag. I want you to know you have the real thing.

[Nancy Grace]

No.

[Tim McKay]

Because from the moment I met you, I knew I did.

[Maureen Callahan]

First of all, nobody talks like that. Not only does nobody really do that, but nobody talks like that. And it feels. It feels very pretty woman adjacent, where it's like, the emotionally unavailable Richard Gere, who just needs, like, a girlfriend for a week to close a deal is like, yeah, I can't really give you anything emotionally or intellectually, but I can give you my credit card. So go shopping and make yourself feel better.

[Tim McKay]

Marcello was so gross in this show, like, this whole season. He was just so annoying. Like, he was, like, upset about his mother's company, and then he's, like, gonna start his own. But as soon as his sister tells him it's not good enough, he's ready to cancel the whole thing and yell at Emily. And now his way of making it all better is. Yeah, buying her something like, that's supposed to be this, like, wonderful, heartfelt thing at the end. Like, no, I'm gonna buy you this super, like, expensive luxury bag just to prove to you. And she. And she's smiling with the happy music in the background, like, why this isn't, like, where the credits roll in the movie at the end like, this. I don't know. It just felt very materialistic. And I would have liked it better if she was like, no, you literally don't have to do this. That's where I thought it was gonna go. I thought she was gonna be like, you don't have to do this to prove anything to me. Just, like, show me the. You care. About me. Don't just buy me a bag and think that that's gonna make up for everything. I don't know.

[Maureen Callahan]

You know what's also interesting is, so there's another Sex in the City adjacency here, because the song that they're using under that dialogue is Got to Be Real, that old soul disco classic. And they used that to great effect in Sex and the City. I think it was the Runway show where Carrie face plants. Do you remember that?

[Tim McKay]

Yeah. Oh, my God. I couldn't remember if it was. I think you're absolutely right. I was like, was it from the movie? But no, I think you're right. It's from the show, right? Yes, but then, of course, everyone loves her anyways.

[Maureen Callahan]

But, yeah, of course. She's so adorable. You know, she's so adorable.

[Tim McKay]

Quirky.

[Maureen Callahan]

Quirky. And, you know, Darren Starr, who created the original Sex and the City, is the creator and showrunner of Emily in Paris. And so that makes sense. But what is tricky here is I don't think he has enough young, straight women in his writer's room or older women in his writers room, because this feels like. Like, this is. This is. This is a very emotionally stunted girl's approach to life. And as you said, the proper reaction to going, pick any bag you want would be like, this is really kind of fucked up. I don't like it.

[Tim McKay]

No, totally. And I think you're absolutely right. It kind of is. Like, it almost feels like a gay man's world. Like, much like a Ryan. Much like a Ryan Murphy show, where it's like, women aren't dressing, like, how women really dress. I, again, I love fantasy. I love a woman in heels. I love it all. But I just think that the show takes it to a different level. Not even like a nice Patricia Fields. I mean, I don't think she does the styling. I hope not.

[Maureen Callahan]

She was doing it. But I don't know if she still is, because I looked at those costumes we were talking about earlier, and I just can't see her putting those girls in them. I just can't.

[Tim McKay]

Yeah. No. So, yeah. No, I just think that the show is kind of going off the rails with the costumes and. Oh, my God. I wanted to make sure that we brought this up, too. The makeup. I feel like throughout the whole show and especially in this season, too, Emily's makeup is either heavy or yellow.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes.

[Tim McKay]

And I've just noticed that it's so distracting because then you see Mindy, who has, like, this, like, plump, luscious skin. Always glowing, always radiant. And then you see Sylvie, whose makeup always looks very, very natural and demure with some eyeliner, some peach blush, and, like, a nude lip. But Emily always looks heavy. And then they, like, try to put on a dark lip to balance out this short little bob that she has. And. And it just looks like opaque yellow foundation with a purple lip, and it clashes. And I just. I've noticed it not in every episode, but I've noticed it in a lot of episodes.

[Maureen Callahan]

Thank you for articulating what's been bugging me about the close ups on the Emily character. Again, it feels between the severity of the bob, the middle part, it all feels very angular. The bold lip. She's got very heavy eyebrows, and then these very aggressive, graphic patterns she's wearing. It's hard. It's a hard look, and it's hard to look at.

[Tim McKay]

Absolutely. So I don't know if it is Patricia Field doing the outfit, but it doesn't feel the same. I don't know. I love Sylvie. I know we both love her, but she's a part of her.

[Maureen Callahan]

We both love Silvie.

[Tim McKay]

And, oh, to the point of the Darren Starr thing. How about the whole Gay Pride episode? I don't know if we have time to talk about that, but I've only.

[Maureen Callahan]

Gotten to, like, the beginning of episode three.

[Expedia Narrator]

Oh.

[Tim McKay]

Oh, my God.

[Maureen Callahan]

Well, there's a. I'm having so much trouble getting through this.

[Tim McKay]

I won't get into it. But Mindy, there's a Gay Pride episode, so of course there are Gay Pride, which already is just. It's a lot. And then they have Mindy dressed in full BDSM clothes, and her hair is up in a red wig with spikes, and she's in complete bdsm. And I guess that that's what Gay Pride is like. I think that that. And it's like that what a woman would wear to a Gay Pride parade. I just. I was like, why is that Gay Pride? And I know that there's a lot of gay men that would love that aesthetic, but I just thought it was very strange that a woman would go to a Gay Pride dressed as a BDSM kind of kinky.

[Maureen Callahan]

That is such a great point. And again, like, that is not the way a woman would think about approaching that. Like a straight woman. I'm sorry, it's not. It's like you were saying, it's like a gay male fantasy. It's like you're talking about, like, sadomasochism as adjacent to supporting gay rights.

[Tim McKay]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

Or gay Accept like what?

[Tim McKay]

Which I've never. I've never, like, loved that. Like, I've lived in New York for 15 years now, and I've just always kind of felt that about gay pride. I love what it stands for, being proud of yourself, but I don't think that people need to be naked and talking about, like, I don't know, having sex in the street, pretty much.

[Maureen Callahan]

Tim, you know, you're just the sweetest. You really are. You're sophisticate and you're very sweet. I want it while I have a little bit of time with you still, because you and I are both, like, real movie buffs. And with the globes around the corner with the Critics Choice Awards on last Sunday, the SAG Awards were just announced. We're like, in awards season. I wanted to talk to you about a few movies that I was catching up on over the break and get your thoughts because I am really having a lot of trouble as a movie lover. This is all breaking my heart. Okay. One battle after another. I could not get through this movie. It's currently streaming on HBO Max. I could not get through it. Tell me your thoughts.

[Tim McKay]

I tried watching it, you know, I didn't watch it in theaters because I. I knew what the messaging was behind it. I don't think that it's great to glorify violence. I. I love Leonardo DiCaprio. But this whole same. Everything in the trailer, like, it just felt like a dated. A very. Like, that's what I think. A lot of these movies that are up for awards right now all feel like they're dated from. From five years ago. Like, they're like, maybe they were green lit four or five years ago when we were in a different time period. The culture was a little bit different. But, like, I don't know, it just. It felt very aggressive. And so I watched half of it and I was bored. I was so bored, I didn't care.

[Maureen Callahan]

Same.

[Tim McKay]

I was so bored. And I didn't find it funny, and I just didn't. I'm like, Leonardo DiCaprio. I love you, but, like, this was horrible.

[Maureen Callahan]

Same. It's Paul Thomas Anderson is the director. He's probably going to win best director given what's going on in the news right now. It's a lockdown. For best picture. It's a lock. And it's a celebration of domestic terrorism. It's racially coded. There's a lot of white supremacy. And there is a scene involving Sean Penn that we will be showing. We're saving it for the Globes livestream. We're saving it. You're gonna die. You're going to die. Okay, moving on. This one I thought I would love. I thought I would love. I like movies about celebrity and fame, but movies that explore, like, the complications of it, the darker sides of it, the costs of it. This is George Clooney, one of our last movie stars, playing an aging movie star named Jay Kelly, who is having a midlife crisis. It's directed by Noah Baumbach, who becomes more self regarding with every passing day. I found this movie Arch. I found it fake. I found it very impressed with itself and I found it really admiring itself. Like, you could see the way Noah is framing some of these shots and the cinematography. And you can tell how in love with all of it he is. And all it's doing to me as a viewer is taking me out of the story. I feel like a good storyteller, a good film. You find yourself absorbed in this world and you don't take notice of this stuff.

[Tim McKay]

I totally know what you're talking about. I have to admit, I don't remember this movie at all. I know I watched it late one night, I believe, and I cannot remember, but I remember feeling this air of pretentiousness to it. And I feel like it's right along the lines of those movies that just want to win awards and they just want to just seem like they have their nose in there, they don't care about anything else. I'm honestly surprised that one battle after another is up for awards because it doesn't seem like, I don't know, it doesn't feel as artsy as the other ones, like the one you're speaking of.

[Maureen Callahan]

You know what it is? Remember the year when Crash was up against Brokeback Mountain for Best Picture?

[Tim McKay]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

And everyone knew that Brokeback Mountain was the superior film. It was the best film of that year. And guess what? One for political virtue signaling reasons, Crash, which nobody remembers now, it was Paul Haggis, right. Since taken down. But, you know, I remember my mom.

[Tim McKay]

Had it on her DVD case. That's what I remember Crash from. Like she had a set of DVDs and I remember she had that in there, but I never watched it.

[Maureen Callahan]

When I learned what was really going on in that photo of Matt, of Matt Dillon with now Thandaway, then Thandie Newton. It makes it look like he's a white cop who's helping a black woman. And do you know what's really going on in that photo?

[Nancy Grace]

No.

[Tim McKay]

No.

[Maureen Callahan]

He's sexually assaulting her in real life. In the film.

[Tim McKay]

Oh, in the film. Oh, my God.

[Maureen Callahan]

So it's a really perverse kind of messaging there.

[Tim McKay]

Well, yes. This we're gonna put right on the COVID Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

No, that was the one sheet. And that was. That was the one sheet. And that was all the advertising and like the New York Times, all the. All the hard. The newspapers when that was a thing. Okay, I want to move on to after the Hunt, Julia Roberts's new film. This has currently 37% on rotten tomatoes. It's up for a Golden Globe nonetheless. Now this. Of the multiple movies I tried to get through, this was the only one I watched. Straight through to me, it's tar light. And we can talk about Julia's hair, makeup, and styling in the film, which I find very Cate Blanchett in tar coated. I. I found it spiky. It's not a perfect movie, but I found it riveting and I found that it had a lot to say and it wasn't trying to necessarily tell you what to think. What are your thoughts?

[Tim McKay]

I will be honest. I didn't see this one, so this one I know for sure I didn't see because I maybe judged the movie by its trailer. And maybe after hearing what you're saying, I feel like I shouldn't have done that. I will definitely check it out before the Golden Globe, but I just remember seeing the trailer and I can't really remember what it was, but there was some kind of political something that just rubbed me the wrong way. I don't know if it was a they them kind of thing or maybe.

[Maureen Callahan]

Maybe.

[Tim McKay]

Maybe it was. And I just. I. And if it's in the trailer, I just assume that it's gonna be what the movie's all about. So I just. Maybe it's not. Maybe it's like this quick little thing in the movie and maybe whatever, I judged it too quickly, so I might have to go back and check it out. But I do see the Cate Blanchett reference. I see that 100%.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes. Watch it and let's talk about it, because I find it deliber deliberate and you will like it because there's a generational clash in here as well. And Julia is Gen X and she's teaching a bunch of really woke kids, and there's an amazing scene in which she just explodes on this kid. It's just been building up and it's all about the world doesn't exist to make you comfortable and maybe your feelings should get hurt.

[Tim McKay]

Yes, I remember that. From the trailer. And I loved that because that's so true. Not everything is supposed to be make you comfortable. It's that generation, this new generation needs to know that for sure.

[Maureen Callahan]

Absolutely. And it's a healthy thing to be made uncomfortable sometimes. It's good for you. It builds resilience. And she says this savage thing, which, you know, it's like almost the unsayable thing. And I really loved it. You know, the girl who's at the heart of the movie, who is not a great actress and they're trying to make a star and it's not going to happen. I can promise you. In the film, her character is a lesbian dating a they them a non binary. It's a trans man. You, you actually see the mastectomy scars. It's a real trans actor. But Julia says to in during this explosion, she says you're only dating this non binary they them person because you don't have an identity. You don't even know who you are. And that person makes you interesting.

[Tim McKay]

Oh, so it does get kind of spicy.

[Maureen Callahan]

It does. I like that.

[Tim McKay]

Okay, great. So it wasn't the direction I thought maybe it was going in.

[Maureen Callahan]

No, I think you'll like it. I hope you get a chance to watch it before I see each other. Next, again, our final movie, Marty Supreme. I have not seen it yet. I refuse to go see this in a movie theater. I need to stream it so I can shut it off at my convenience. What do you make of Timothy Shamalama? Ding Dong? His styling, his professional moves about town at award shows and in general the movie, if you have seen it.

[Tim McKay]

Well, he's just been Mr.

[Expedia Narrator]

Cool.

[Tim McKay]

Right. On this whole press tour. Like he's just cool.

[Maureen Callahan]

He's the opposite of cool. He thinks he's cool.

[Tim McKay]

Exactly.

[Maureen Callahan]

Automatically means he's not cool.

[Tim McKay]

Exactly. And I have no interest in seeing this movie. It's about tennis. And I know it's not all about that. Is it ping pong or is it tennis? I'm not sure.

[Maureen Callahan]

Excuse me. Tim, get it right. It's the high stakes life threatening world of underground ping pong in New York City.

[Tim McKay]

That is absolutely right. You're right. So, and that sounds pretty dangerous and high stakes and all, but I don't know, I'm like, I, I saw dude.

[Maureen Callahan]

You mean that doesn't appeal to you?

[Tim McKay]

No. It sounds so boring. I'm like, how come? Like, how come Oscar films have to be so weird? Like how come it has to be like a man's journey to become the best ping pong player in New York. Like what? Like go play chess in the park with everybody else. Come on.

[Maureen Callahan]

Well, listen, the streaming is where it's at. So the pit is coming back. Industry is coming back there. There are more movies that you and I will need to go through between now and the Oscars. There's tons to cover. So I would like to just invite the troublemakers. If there are any films or shows that you would like Tim and I to take a whack at, just email us and I guess that's it till I see you. See you back here on the Nerf soon.

[Tim McKay]

Yeah, I would love to. Hopefully it's very soon and just a fun recommendation for anyone. Like, sometimes it's fun to go to a movie that's not trying to be an Oscar movie and knows that it's kind of sloppy. And that's. That was the Housemaid for me. I went to see the Housemaid and I loved Amanda Seyfried in it. I thought it was really, really fun. I had already read the book, so I knew the twist, but it was just like this. And it's not trying to be anything. It's not. It's just a schlocky, like. Like kind of like cheesy thriller from like the 90s. Kind of reminds her, like. And I loved it.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes, I want to see it. I'm probably gonna wait until streaming, but that's directed by Paul Feig. Correct. F I, E, G or F E, I, G. Who did a simple favor, which falls apart a little bit towards the end, but otherwise is like a perfectly constructed B movie. I love.

[Tim McKay]

That's really.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah. Like a really well done B movie that knows it's a B movie and isn' to level up is just happy where it's at.

[Tim McKay]

Like a single white female. Like, super fun. Like that. Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes. I couldn't agree with you more. I couldn't agree with you more. Well, thanks for the rec, Tim.

[Tim McKay]

Of course.

[Maureen Callahan]

We'll see you soon.

[Tim McKay]

See you soon, Maureen. Thank you for having me.

[Maureen Callahan]

Thanks for coming on. And that's it. That's it for today's edition of the Nerve. Come back and see us tomorrow for our Mini that drops on YouTube. That's where the Minis live for now over at. On Saturdays at 10am Eastern, if you haven't already. Again, check out our substack, go over to thenerveshow.com you'll see a prompt, put your email address in, subscribe and you'll get our weekly newsletter that will find its way into your inbox around 3pm Eastern on Fridays. Plus nerve merch. Grab something for yourself or a fellow [e-mail] you can also listen to the nerve on Megan's podcast playlist every Monday, Wednesday and Friday at 9:00am Eastern on Sirius XM channel 111, the Megan Kelly channel. And and and we are two days away from our live stream, our Golden Globes live stream. It's going to be a party you guys already know. Rob Shooter is going to be there. We've got another exciting guest for you. You will love it. Be sure to join us Please over on YouTube at 6:30pm Eastern for some real talk about fake people and for some real red carpet coverage. We're not going to be like, oh my God, you know, asking inane questions of like whoever's on the on the carpet this year, come chat with us over on our side of the street live as we break down this year's red carpet looks. Red carpet Bratz share all of the the thoughts on on the nominees. We're going to be taking your thoughts and questions live. It's going to be great time. 6:30pm Eastern on this Sunday. We will see you tomorrow for the Mini and then again next week right here at the Nerve where you will never guess what we're about to say next.

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Martha listens to her favorite band all the time in the car, gym, even sleep. So when they finally went on tour, Martha bundled her flight and hotel on Expedia to see them live. She saved so much she got a seat close enough to actually see and hear them sort of. You were made to scream from the front row. We were made to quietly save you. More Expedia made to travel savings vary and subject to availability. Flight inclusive packages are atoll protected.