Prince Harry's Royal Grievances, Diddy Trial Begins, A-List Celebs Skip The Met Gala

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Nerve with Maureen Callahan Episode: Prince Harry's Royal Grievances, Diddy Trial Begins, A-List Celebs Skip The Met Gala
Release Date: May 7, 2025

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1. Introduction to Episode Topics

Maureen Callahan kicks off this episode with a blend of personal anecdotes and a robust agenda featuring pressing issues in the realms of royalty, celebrity culture, and high-profile legal battles. The episode delves into Prince Harry's latest grievances with the British Royal Family, scrutinizes the recent Met Gala's fashion debacles, and provides an in-depth analysis of the commencement of Diddy's highly anticipated trial with renowned criminal defense attorney, Tom Cuniff.

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2. Prince Harry's Royal Grievances

Maureen opens the episode by addressing Prince Harry's recent BBC interview, highlighting his frustrations with the Royal Family. She draws parallels between Harry's situation and historical royal tensions, emphasizing his perceived position as the "spare" in the line of succession and his strained relationship with his family.

Notable Quotes:

• Maureen Callahan (00:31):
  “I know you're going to help me get through it... Prince Harry is reveling in it.”

• Prince Harry (04:14):
  “And B assessment I was given. I scored the highest. The only person within the family that scored anywhere near that was my grandmother.”

Maureen dissects Harry's claims about security being used as leverage by the Royal Family, questioning the consistency of their stance given past provisions of security. She criticizes Harry for seemingly omitting critical facts, such as his father's support for their security when they first moved to America, and underscores Harry's aggressive stance against the media.

Additional Insights:

• Harry's insinuations about the Royal Family's role in Princess Diana's death.
• His expressed desire for reconciliation juxtaposed with his ongoing litigation and public disdain.
• Maureen’s critical take on Meghan Markle’s comments and actions, portraying them as antagonistic toward the Royal Family.

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3. Met Gala Recap and Celebrity Fashion Critique

Transitioning to the Met Gala, Maureen and guest Kinsey Schofield provide a scathing review of the event, focusing on the theme of black dandyism and the myriad of fashion missteps from various A-list attendees.

Notable Highlights:

• Solange vs. Jay Z Incident (mentions the 2013 altercation):
  Maureen recounts Solange PKasting Jay Z in an elevator after a Met Gala after-party, highlighting insecurities within celebrity circles.

• Gwyneth Paltrow's Candid Admission (16:41):
  Gwyneth describes the Met Gala as glamorous in expectation but overwhelming in reality, an insight echoed by Amy Schumer's similar sentiments.

• Critique of Anna Wintour (17:30):
  Maureen labels Wintour as "dictator-like," criticizing her control over guest lists and fashion choices, and questioning the authenticity of the event's political gestures.

Notable Quotes:

• Maureen Callahan (22:37):
  “She [Solange] just couldn’t justify this to save my life. I don't feel like this is honoring Rosa Parks.”

• Kinsey Schofield (21:26):
  “I saw this. And I have so many questions.”

The duo continues to dissect outfits, including controversial choices by Lisa from BLACKPINK, Pusha T, Kamala Harris, Andre 3000, Gigi Hadid, and Whoopi Goldberg, blending humor with pointed criticism. They also discuss notable absences from the event, linking them to the escalating tensions surrounding Diddy's trial.

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4. Diddy Trial Discussion with Tom Cuniff

Post-Met Gala, Maureen pivots to the main legal segment, introducing Tom Cuniff, a distinguished criminal defense attorney, to discuss the unfolding trial of Sean "Diddy" Combs. The trial has garnered immense media attention, particularly due to the high-profile nature of the defendant and the severity of the charges.

Key Topics:

• Jury Selection:
  The trial begins with selecting jurors willing to view disturbing evidence, including alleged video footage of Diddy’s violent actions.

• Defense Strategy:
  Tom Cuniff elaborates on potential defense angles, including challenging the prosecution's interpretation of evidence and questioning Diddy's mental state.

Notable Quotes:

• Prince Harry (04:22):
  “...he's number one and he's kind of reveling in it.”

• Tom Cuniff (51:31):
  “...the prosecution are going to have more than one or two lawyers themselves.”

• Maureen Callahan (56:05):
  “I personally think he'll get convicted and he'll never see the light of day again.”

Cuniff discusses the complexities of the case, including the unusual withdrawal of Diddy's previous attorney, Anthony Rico, who had notable past clients such as Osama bin Laden. He also addresses the challenges posed by the federal prosecution in the Southern District of New York, known for its stringent legal standards and high conviction rates.

Additional Insights:

• The comparison of Diddy's defense team to those of other high-profile cases like O.J. Simpson and Harvey Weinstein.
• The psychological and strategic implications of having an extensive legal team, signaling the seriousness of Diddy's case.
• The potential impact of celebrity involvement and media portrayal on the trial’s outcome.

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5. Conclusion

Maureen wraps up the episode by highlighting the interconnectedness of current events, from Prince Harry’s royal disputes to the high-stakes legal battle against Diddy, underscoring the pervasive influence of celebrity culture in shaping public discourse. She teases future episodes with continued coverage of the Diddy trial and its implications on the broader entertainment and legal landscapes.

Final Notable Quote:

• Maureen Callahan (69:43):
  “I can't wait to watch this trial unfold. It's going to go through at least mid-summer again. I think it's one for the ages.”

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Notable Quotes and Timestamps

• Maureen Callahan:

  • “I think we have a banger of a show for you today.” (01:05)
  • “Prince Harry is not a failure. He's not a fuck up.” (05:09)
  • “She’s the queen of soul, of hip hop, of R&B.” (36:48)

• Prince Harry:

  • “I don't want history to repeat itself.” (09:18)
  • “I would love reconciliation with my family.” (10:02)

• Tom Cuniff:

  • “The prosecution are going to have more than one or two lawyers themselves.” (51:31)
  • “Federal prosecutors tend to be overwhelmingly successful...” (62:36)

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Conclusion

This episode of The Nerve with Maureen Callahan offers a penetrating look into the tumultuous worlds of royalty, celebrity, and high-profile legal proceedings. Through sharp analysis and engaging discussions, Maureen and her guests dissect the implications of Prince Harry's battles with the Royal Family, the superficial glamor of the Met Gala, and the intense scrutiny surrounding Diddy's trial. Listeners are left with a comprehensive understanding of these multifaceted issues, poised to tune in for further developments in future episodes.

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For more insights and updates, tune into "The Nerve with Maureen Callahan" on MK Media. Visit The Nerve for additional content and discussion.

Transcript

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[Maureen Callahan]

Welcome to the Nerve. I am Maureen Callahan. If I may say so myself, I think we have a banger of a show for you today. I am dressed in black, in high necked black with some Upper east side pearls because I am in mourning for the culture. But I know you're going to help me get through it. So coming up, we have incredible guests. We have my friend and like entertainment slash royal reporter non Perel Kinsey Schofield. She will be joining me shortly to discuss everything about the Met Gala. And it is a stew. It is, it is. It is going to be very rich and fun. And then later I'll be diving into the latest developments in the Diddy trial. And by the way, there is a Venn diagram between the Met Gala and Sean Diddy combs and conspirators, alleged conspirators within that kicked off Monday here in New York City. So an incredible defense attorney like this guy is a national profile and you're going to love him. Tom Cuniff is going to join us. But first, first we added this to the show at the last minute because we need to discuss Prince Harry's latest interview. He sat down with the BBC. He lost a major court case in the uk. Long story short, he's like, hey, UK taxpayers pay for my security and my wife's security and my kids security any and every time we come to the UK and the court said, sorry sir, you Closed that door a long time ago. You're no longer a working royal. Leave us out of this, please. And so an aggrieved Harry, and really, is there any other kind of Harry said to the BBC, why don't you come on over and I'll give you a 10 minute sit down. He gave them a 30 minute sit down. I mean, 45 is approaching like a psychotherapy treatment, which I kind of think the mainstream media is now providing for Harry. He's just sort of venting. So this interview, which I also columned on for the Daily Mail yesterday, this thing is a doozy, okay? This is Princess Diana sitting down with Panorama saying that Charles is not up for the top job doozy of an interview. So we're going to take it apart piece by piece. Now, Harry may be the spare, as he titled his memoir. He may now be fifth, I believe, in line for the British throne. So it's never going to happen. He may be no longer on speaking terms with his family of origin, their choice, not his. But he wants us to know, and I shit you not, that irrelevant to the royals though he may be when it comes to whose life is more in danger, who is number one on the threat list, who people want allegedly to see grave harm come to, if not outright death? It's Harry. Harry's number one. He's number one and he's kind of reveling in it. So let's look at this last R.

[Prince Harry]

And B assessment I was given. I scored the highest. The only person within the family that scored anywhere near that was my grandmother.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay? So aside from the late Queen Elizabeth ii, may she rest. Harry's number one. So he's good at something. Okay? He can do something. He may be getting kicked off of charities, at least one that we know of. But you know, he's not a failure. He's not a fuck up. Okay, so then he says security. The British Royal Family has been using Free again. This is free. He's out there on the. He's out there panhandling. I thought he was worth like $40 million, right? Security is being used by allegedly the British Royal Family as leverage. And you'll never guess to what end, like what it is the British Royal family wants out of him and Meghan. Take a look.

[Interviewer]

You've spoken very openly about the fact that you think you've been punished for leaving the monarchy. Who specifically do you think is trying to punish you?

[Prince Harry]

I don't. I don't. I don't think that anymore. Now I know, I know that it was, you know, security was used as, as leverage. And I think what really worries me more than anything else about to say today's decision, depending on what happens next, is that it set a new precedent that security can be used to control members of the family. And effectively what it does is imprison other members of the family from being able to choose a different life. If for me, security is conditional and having an official role, one that both myself and my wife wished to carry on, but then was rejected by RABC, was rejected by the royal household. And the result to that is you lose your security that basically says that you can't live outside of. Outside of their control.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay, so I'm a little confused as to what exactly his point is here. You know, when King Charles was then Prince Charles and those two flounced out of the British royal family and they basically said, do it our way. This is what we want to do. And the Queen, in her infinite wisdom said, sorry, it doesn't work that way. Can't be half in, half out. Can't be merching Sussex crap all over the World Wide web and also be working for the British populace, for the citizenry and for the reputation of the nation. Doesn't work that way. So Harry neglects to mention that his father paid for his and Megan's security for the first year they went to America. He paid for it. Now, you would think that Charles was just the worst father in the world, but. So we're gonna omit that inconvenient truth and then we're going to imply that the Royal family needs to basically hold itself hostage with security so that if you wanted to leave, you will never get security should you leave, even though all Harry needs to do, truly, I don't know if this interviewer was falling asleep as he's speaking to her, because I know this. So this interviewer for the BBC should know this. All these two need to do is send a message within a certain amount of time in advance to say, hey, we're going to be in the UK on date certain. Please provide security. Done dusted, not a problem. But if we're not raging in the public square, what is the point of our existence now? In this next clip, Harry and we're inching up to some truly disgusting stuff. As we know, the King is battling cancer. Catherine, Princess of Wales is in remission from cancer, and Harry has sort of a new outlook on life, I believe. Take a look.

[Interviewer]

Speaking of your family, your father is ill with cancer. Will you continue to visit him alone? Without the family, where does this leave things moving forward? The ability of your children to see their grandfather.

[Prince Harry]

You know, life is a precious thing and I'm acutely aware of the fragility of that. I, I can, I can only come to the UK safely if I'm invited.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay. But he's been going anyway. Like he hasn't been as far as I know that he's getting no invitations extended. You know, he's booking all these court dates and suing the pants off of everybody. He, he, but he goes to the uk. Okay, now let's go to this in which he implies heavily that the British Royal family had something to do with his mother Princess Diana's untimely death and that he lives in fear of such a thing happening again to. Well, you can guess. Take a look.

[Prince Harry]

I don't want history to repeat itself. I think there's a lot of other people out there, the majority, that also don't want history to repeat itself. Through the disclosure process, I've discovered that some people want history to repeat itself, which is pretty dark.

[Maureen Callahan]

That's quite a statement.

[Interviewer]

Who do you think that is?

[Prince Harry]

I'm not going to share it at this point.

[Maureen Callahan]

He's a big tease, just like his wife. Okay. And then. So the final thought of Harry is him talking about wanting to reconcile with the family that he thinks probably killed Diana. Would like to see grave harm come to him and his wife. But he would love to get back in, take a look.

[Prince Harry]

I, I would, I would love, I would love reconciliation with my family. I've always, I've, you know, there's no point in continuing to fight anymore. As I said, life is precious. I don't know how much longer my father has, you know, he, he, he won't speak to me because of this security stuff.

[Maureen Callahan]

Harry, let me try to get your head on straight. Your father will not talk to you for multiple reasons. Okay? One of which is you are doing to him what you and Megan did to a 99 year old prince Philip when he was on his DeathBed. And you two went over to OP and screamed racism. The Royal family is racist. Oh, and by the way, Meghan was suicidal. But the Royal family said you cannot get mental help. You're doing what you did when the beloved Queen was dying of bone cancer, which is an extremely painful way to go. You announced that you were writing a cd. Tell all my opinion cd. See me tell all about life in the Royal Family airing out all the dirty laundry. And then your wife gave this rage filled interview to the cot in which she said, guess what? I didn't sign an NDA. Okay. Lovely. And now you are breaching what little privacy the king has, which goes to his own health and his own cancer battle. And you're saying, I don't know how long he has left. You are vile. You are vile. And if you don't think that when William becomes king, he's going to strip you of your titles and the world will cheer that, you're out of your mind. Now, to cap this little whatever off that these two are up to, let's take a look again at what Meghan Markle had to say about the state of the Sussexes relationship and their current frame of mind, current vibe on her insufferable baby.

[Interviewer]

So now, seven years later, when you have a little bit of breathing space.

[Maureen Callahan]

You can just enjoy each other in a new way. And that's why I feel like it's more of a honeymoon period for us now. So they've got breathing space from the royal family that Harry is whinging and moaning that he wants back into. And also they're now in a honeymoon phase, although Harry as they are running for their lives. Which is it? It literally cannot be both. Okay, enough of those two. Coming up after the break, Kinsey Schofield joins me for some Met Gala gossip disasters and a really interesting way in to talk about Diddy. We'll be right back. I am going to talk to you about a guy named Leo Grillo. Now, Leo was on a road trip and he found a Doberman like this dog was on the verge of death, severely underweight, clearly suffering deeply. So Leo rescued that dog and named him Delta. Now, Delta, of course, was just one of many animals that needed and need our help. And that inspired Leo to start Delta Rescue, which is the largest no kill, care for life animal sanctuary in the world. They have rescued thousands of dogs, cats and horses from the wilderness and they provide these animals with shelter, love, safety, and a home. This dedication and everlasting love to animals is Leo's mission and legacy. Delta Rescue relies solely on contributions from people like us. And if you want caring for these animals to be part of your legacy, speak with your estate planner because there are tax saving estate benefits too, so you can grow your estate while letting your love for animals live well into the future. Check out the estate planning tab on their website and learn more. Maybe speak with an advisor, because we call dogs man's best friends for a reason. Now it's our turn to help those who need it the most. So please visit deltarescue.org today. To learn more, that's deltarescue.org this Mother's.

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[Maureen Callahan]

Hey, it's Maureen. Welcome back to the Nerve. So last night in New York City was the Met Gala thrown every year by Anna Wintour on what is known as the first Monday in May because it is the first Monday in May. And just like the DC Correspondence dinner I told you guys about last week, it's over, okay? It's done. Now, before we get into this pathetic, vulgar, disgusting display, let's set the table with some greatest hits of the past few years. And I would like to begin with one of my personal favorites. Beyonce's sister, Solange, beating the shit out of Jay Z in an elevator after a Met Gala after party at what was then the Boom Boom Room at the Standard Hotel. This is amazing. Solange is just kicking him and throwing punches, and Jay is just standing there taking it. There's a bodyguard who's got Solange by the arms, like, he's. He's got her, like, wrapped up, and Beyonce is just standing there, like, not moving. As I said to you last week, kind of. Kind of a mute, ineffective person. And you get the impression she has seen this before. Okay? Now, in 2013, Gwyneth Paltrow gave an extremely candid interview. I mean, no matter how you feel about Gwyneth, this is one of those moments where we can all love her. And she said the following about her attendance at that year's Met Gala 2013. It seems like the best thing in the world. Like, you always think, oh, my God, this is going to be so glamorous and amazing, and you're gonna see all these people. And then you. You get there and it's so hot, it's so crowded.

[Kinsey Schofield]

Everyone's pushing you.

[Maureen Callahan]

Do you want me to be honest? Yeah. It sucks. I absolutely believe her. Because these things, the met gala, the D.C. correspondence dinner, the Oscars, they all look like you. Really, you would die to get in, right? Trust me, once you got through those doors, you would. You would die to get right back out. As Amy Schumer told us.

[Kinsey Schofield]

I left the. I left not the second I could. I left earlier than I should have been allowed. But, I mean, it's exciting, you know, it's like, I got to meet Beyonce, right? And she was like, is this your first met G? And I was like, it's my last. And she was like, you know, I figured I should be, like, grateful I was invited or something, but, yeah, it was just like. It felt like a punishment. Like, I just. I cannot. It's not me, and I don't like it.

[Maureen Callahan]

Stop.

[Kinsey Schofield]

Like a bunch of fucking assholes, right? And we're.

[Tom Cuniff]

Hi.

[Kinsey Schofield]

Yes. And I have no interest in fashion.

[Maureen Callahan]

So that was Amy Schumer being extremely candid, and I love her for it. I had the same experience at the DC Correspondence dinner last week. I left early. It was that bad. Okay, so these things are over now. I just want to say a quick word about Anna Wintour, who has been governing. No, nay. I'm sorry. I would call her terrorist adjacent. Now, this is a joke, and it's my opinion, but Anna Wintour has been running this thing forever, okay? And to get in, you have to have. First of all, you have to be approved by Anna to get in, you. Then if you're bringing a guest, all of your guests have to be approved by Anna. Anna either dresses you or you have to run by Anna what you are wearing, okay? So this is like just. She is just a dictator, okay? And by the way, this is a woman who loves to be very political, and she only puts, like, Democratic women on the COVID of Vogue, okay? She did put Melania on the COVID when she was marrying Trump, but now that she's in the White House, no go zone. But if. If you want to call anybody a dictator, it ain't Trump. It's Anna. Okay? Secondly, this event, the theme was black dandyism, okay? This is a woke adjacent event by a woman who is editor in chief of Vogue. Took three years to put a black model on the COVID of Vogue. You know who that was? Naomi Campbell. We're going to get back to her. After George Floyd and Black Lives Matter, Anna immediately wrote a cover your ass open letter. My opinion open letter, saying that Vogue really needed to do better in hiring people of color to work for her rather than the spawn, the nepo babies of celebrities and titans of industry that she typically has. I don't think it's gotten better over there. I'm just saying. I haven't heard anything, you know, change. And then sec. Thirdly. Thirdly, Andre Leon Talley, who was her sidekick and who worked for her and actually knew his fashion history for many, many years. And then she suddenly dumped him out of nowhere. She was like, you are Persona non grata. This guy wound up living out the rest of his days. He's now dead in poverty in upstate New York. You know, there were very few fashion people who came through for him. And that's how. This is the point. The fashion world is ugly, and it's mean. It is mean. Okay? These are not happy people. These are not happy people, and they get off on trying to make you and me feel like shit about ourselves so we can go buy stuff we don't need. Now, there was a bunch of celebrities. There were. Excuse me, let me conjugate properly. There were a bunch of celebrities missing in action last night. And we're going to go through that, and we're going to talk about why. First, though, I would like to introduce our guest, Kinsey Schofield, the incomparable. There is no one better when it comes to royals. Celebrity, even fashion. She can do it all. I'm also lucky enough to call her one of my friends. Welcome, Kinsey, for your first appearance on the Nerve.

[Interviewer]

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

[Maureen Callahan]

Well, thank you. We're very honored to have you. So, okay, I want to go through this clown car at the Met gala last night. First up is Lisa from blackpink having a moment. She's also a White Lotus person. She showed up on the red carpet. It's the pantsless look, which has been sticking with us for quite a while now, on the face of it. All right, fine, Whatever. She can pull it off. Let's take a closer look at the crotch of this ensemble. Okay, so, Kinsey, when we look at this outfit more closely, we see on the crotch what looks to be. I shit you not, the face of Rosa Parks. Did you catch this?

[Interviewer]

I saw. I saw this. And I have so many questions. I have so many questions.

[Maureen Callahan]

I mean, this is. This is what I think. Just my opinion. As I said, Anna Wintour controls everything. Everything. I think this is a nudge. I think this is a wink. I think this is a bit of contempt thrown our way. She had to throw a black themed event with an all black hosting committee. And I'm gonna say I don't think she liked having to do it.

[Interviewer]

Really?

[Maureen Callahan]

I don't think she did. I don't think she did. I. And I. Because I don't know how you take the face of a revered American icon who helped bring segregation to an end by getting arrested for refusing to move her seat on a bus to go sit in the quote unquote black section and allowing some starlit. I mean, I know black. Blackpink is huge, but this woman is trying to make it in Hollywood. This is a very important event for those reasons. And, I mean, that's a very limited reason to be there. And she wears, like, kind of a saint on her crotch.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, no, she calls this high fashion. I call it a cry for help and some pretty tight Rosa Parks panties. I could not justify this to save my life. I don't feel like this is honoring Rosa Parks and any. To sit on her, you know, face. What was the ultimate objective here?

[Maureen Callahan]

Would. Would you. Do you think she would have gotten away with George Floyd's face on her crotch?

[Interviewer]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, absolutely not.

[Maureen Callahan]

She would never even dare it. She'd be canceled. Right.

[Interviewer]

What did Rosa Parks do to her?

[Maureen Callahan]

I mean, you know, what did her styling team do to her? What did Anna Wintour allegedly do to her? Let's take a look at A$AP Rocky, who is Rihanna's partner, father of her two children, and he just recently beat a gun charge, and look at what he showed up in last night. Oh, okay. Kins. Do you catch the umbrella?

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Maureen Callahan]

So it's a gun. It's meant to look like a gun. I'm not saying it's an actual gun, but again, what do you make of this kind of messaging?

[Interviewer]

I mean, here. Do you remember when you had to be, like, invited to the Met Gala and it was the end all be all event this. Yeah, Yeah. I. I look at this picture, and I think it feels like they're just handing out tickets with every GLP1 poke. I don't understand. This is not the elite to me. You've shown me two people that are not on my radar ever so far. And fashion wise, I'm unimpressed. But also, I'm just like, what happened to this being such a glam. Remember Princess Diana went to the Metcalf?

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes. Yes.

[Interviewer]

This is not. That's not the vibe I get with. With their. With the pistol umbrella.

[Maureen Callahan]

No. And it kind of makes you wonder, like, what is the. What is the. The. The conflict, right, between Anna and her. Her need to be the arbiter of high fashion. All things high fashion. It's black dandyism. Okay? It's a rarefied theme. And then you have your guests, you know, a guy who Just beat a gun charge, which in my opinion he was very lucky to beat that rap double down by showing up with an umbrella that's mocked up to look like a gun. Is this funny? I don't think it's funny. I don't think it's funny. Now I want to go to Pusha T and his. He's a hip hop star. His name Pusha is a play on drug pusher, allegedly. And the suit he showed up in. Let's take a look at this. So full length again, from far away. It's, you know, as Cher would say in Clueless, it's kind of a Monet, right? You look far away and it like looks, looks fantastic. And then you get a close up look and it's a hot mess. Because I heard this was the. This was the conversation on LL Cool J's Sirius XM Hip Hop channel this afternoon. They were talking about his suit jacket looking like cocaine dust.

[Interviewer]

Oh, see, that's much more aggressive. I was going to say he looks like he stole that blazer off a retired magician after the rabbit quit. So I think that that is a much better description than mine.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes. I mean, that's what the hip hop community is saying, you know, don't commit me. And like they said it and it clicked. I was like, that's exactly right. Okay, so next I want to go to. This guy has been on my last nerve for weeks now. Walton Goggins of the White Lotus showed up in this. For those of you who are listening and can't see it. He's wearing a black and white, like, it's a full length skirt. It's got like panels like, like, and, and he's got one hand on his hip. Like he is just killing it. He's kill. He's Walt Goggins. And you're not. What kind are you secure enough in your masculinity to wear a floor length skirt. Kinsey, your thoughts please?

[Interviewer]

I think unfortunately he, especially with that pose, looks like a substitute teacher on Pict. And that I can't believe that he probably was presented with multiple choices and that was his like, hell yeah, let's.

[Maureen Callahan]

Go that, by the way, that if he's the substitute teacher, he's the one that all the parents are calling about at the end of that day. Okay, I want to take a look at. So again, this is not a political event. We're making no political statements. We're endorsing nobody. Kamala Harris makes her Met gala debut in this. Oh, none too subtle, Kinsey. It's a black and white dress. Three quarters of it is black, and a quarter of it is white. Not that she's saying anything, but I find this a none too subtle nod to perhaps racial unity.

[Interviewer]

Oh, that. You're going so much deeper than I ever imagined. When. When it comes to. I don't even think Kamala can spell racial unity, but I think she looks like she asked five people if she looked okay, and they all lied. That is what my personal opinion is when I look at that dress. They all. They were like, yeah, you look okay. And they lied. They lied to her.

[Maureen Callahan]

It doesn't even look expensive to your point. Like, it looks like something you would get at. Like, I don't know, like a dress barn. Like it's a mother of the bride. Like, you know, and, like, could you imagine being seated next to her and her, like, maybe four drinks in. Just. Just. Just supposition. I'm not saying anything. And talking about, you know, the American people being an optimistic people and her hopes and her. And our dreams and our ambitions. And then, like, going into the voice with the. With the hand gestures and where's Dougie? Is he, like, assaulting another woman somewhere? Allegedly. Why isn't he on her arm?

[Interviewer]

That's a great question.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay, next is. I want to look at one of my favorites. I've loved this guy forever. And if you want to talk black dandyism, I think he's been long been the epitome Andre 3000 of Outkast, 1/2 of Outkast, who is one of the most stylish men on the planet. He showed up. I think this is his Bjork moment. Remember when Bjork went to the Oscars in a swan dress?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

I think it's Bjork adjacent. Let's take a look at Andre 3000. Okay, you guys, he's got a piano on his back. A piano on, like, I'm dying. I'm kind of dying. I kind of love this. Am I crazy, Kinsey?

[Interviewer]

No. I love this too. And there's something about the Met gala. We need to have these quirky moments. I don't know if we're going to talk about Demi Moore, but to me, you have to have some of those outfits that totally stand out and remind us that these are supposed to be creatives, these are supposed to be artists. And Andre 3000 is. Is totally representing that right there. He's giving us a piece of his personality and showing us how brilliant he. And fun he can be as an artist. I love it.

[Maureen Callahan]

I couldn't agree with you more. And frankly, I thought he should have been on the committee. You know, he's got a real sense of humor, and as you said, like, his personality is just shining through. And it also shows that he doesn't take these assholes seriously either, you know? Okay, I want to go to Gigi Hadid's gown, which I think might be more controversial or less than I think, actually. But let's take a look at Gigi, who showed up last night in this gorgeous custom gold gown. Now, to me, she looks beautiful, okay? But to me, this is like an Oscars dress. This is not a dress that says anything about black dandyism. Kinsey, what do you think?

[Interviewer]

So one of the patterns I saw, and I could be very paranoid, but I felt like a lot of the people that showed up that were white went, Nicole Kidman, went crazy safe. Because they were afraid of perhaps being accused of cultural appropriation. And I wonder if that's what we see here with the beautiful Barbie dress on.

[Maureen Callahan]

Gigi.

[Interviewer]

Just. I'm going to play it safe. I'm going to go. Boring. We saw so much black that to the point where at one point I thought we were watching a funeral procession, but I felt like a lot of people were like, hey, I actually don't want to stand out and be talked about this time around. I just. Just don't want any controversy whatsoever.

[Maureen Callahan]

That is such an excellent point, and that hadn't occurred to me, but I think you're right. And I was watching Gigi get interviewed on the red carpet last night, and I always feel bad for her because I remember when she was, like, an aspiring model, like her mom, her momager Yolanda Hadid, was pushing her into it. And this was when Yolanda was on the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. And so this I'll never forget. Yolanda's getting wheeled in to get her breast implants removed, which is the moment you can see in David Foster's eyes. He's consulting with the divorce lawyer. And Gigi calls, and she's on a shoot, and she says to her mother, Yolanda, I am so hungry. I am starving. And Yolanda says, I want you to eat an almond one and eat it very slowly. And that's how the phrase almond mom entered the lexicon. So when you see Gigi, this poor thing, like, her eyes are dead on the red carpet. Her voice is dead on the red carpet. Of course it is. But she's giving, like, basically a Wikipedia entry on how this gold gown has anything to do with, like, Black designers like it. Like, if you have to give a Wikipedia entry, like, you've kind of failed at the assignment, in my opinion.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay. Another favorite. Another favorite, Whoopi Goldberg of the View, is in attendance. Let's take a look at her luck. Okay. I. I feel like Whoopi was done a disservice here. And, you know, I'm gonna say I think she's been pretty open about taking the jab. She's lost a lot of weight. Now. I love this also for her, for Whoopi getting an invitation to the Met, because anybody who, like, takes a minute to look at the View knows this woman shows up on set, on air. This is the. This is the respect she shows us, the viewing audience, that pays her enormous multimillion dollar paycheck. I believe she makes 10 mil a year. She shows up wearing things I wouldn't scrub the tub in. Yeah. Like, you know, so. So. But she takes a Met gala invite, so that's strange. And then she's like. Her entire body is. Do you remember, I think Christian Siriano dressed her for the Oscars one year, and she actually looked really beautiful.

[Interviewer]

Right? Yeah. Well, in that particular outfit, you know, I've seen better silhouettes in crime scene chalk outlines, so I would agree that. That somebody was mad at her. That stylist had it out for her. I did not think that that was appealing at all.

[Maureen Callahan]

I mean, if you saw her from. From a distance or from the back, you would never go. That's Whoopi Goldberg, who otherwise has very distinctive features, like the long cornrows. Her face is incredibly distinctive. She emits, like, an energy that's, like, incredibly distinctive. Also allegedly redolent of gas and marijuana. So I don't know, maybe that was, like, the reason for the coat, like, sort of maybe contain the odor within.

[Interviewer]

That's. That could be. Thank you for. For reminding me of that. Never forget.

[Maureen Callahan]

Never forget. Okay, next up is. I'm kind of fascinated by this person. I think her name is Mahala. She's a star of industry, which first season, very spotty. Trying a little too hard. But as the show progresses, it's a fantastic show. So she used to go by two names. Now she just goes by one. I think she wants to be the new Zendaya. From what I've read, she's kind of like a little bit above her skis in terms of where she thinks she's at. But this is what she showed up to at the Met gala last night.

[Interviewer]

Oh, yes.

[Maureen Callahan]

I. I think those knee high or above the knee boots are like Timbaland boots. Timberland boots. Not Timbaland the producer, but Timberland boots. And then she's got this really interesting silhouette that again, like, the shoulders are highly exaggerated. It's almost swallowing her. She looks. You know what she looks like. You know, at the end of Beetlejuice, when Beetlejuice goes to purgatory and everybody's got a shrunken head, that's what she looks like.

[Interviewer]

That is very accurate. I think she looks like she lost a bet with the duvet and the duvet won. I mean, duvet is the clear winner here because it is swallowing her. It's a choice. You know, we're talking about her. I'd never heard her before of her before until today. So somebody did something right.

[Maureen Callahan]

Great point. Somebody did do something right. And that's the whole point of this dog and pony show, which is that you show up and you dress, like, elaborately. And no matter how ridiculous you have to look, if you are kind of on the bubble and it gets you noticed and talked about, it's okay if everybody laughs at you because now we know your name and maybe you book, like a bigger job. So I guess, good for her. Good for her team. Well done. Okay, Ms. Diana Ross, who, by the way, I had an Uber driver last week who picked me up. I was having this great lunch at Harry Cipriani in the Sherry Netherland Hotel. And he picks me up and he says, does Ms. Ross still live here? I said, who? What? He goes, diana Ross. Does she still live here? I said, first of all, I don't mean any disrespect because she's so quiet. I forgot she was still with us. A legend forgot she was. But I was like, sir, I have no idea. Do I look like an encyclopedia? But he said, oh, I used to pick her up all the time. And anyway, so Diana Ross shows up last night. Night in this. Let's take a look at it. Okay, Kenzie, I'm going to hand this one to you because I know what you're going to say. This is. This is my gift to you. What does this remind you of?

[Interviewer]

I mean, it reminds me of Princess Diana's tr. The Wedding Train.

[Maureen Callahan]

I knew it. I knew that's where you're so right. It's same thing occurred to me, right? You can't even see her. And I believe Rihanna did that first, right? That huge train that covered the. Covered the. All the steps. And. And then last night she debuted. There she is. And it's in white you know, I mean, it kind of shows you, like, the torch really has been passed. And Rihanna is the queen. She's the queen of soul, of hip hop, of R B. I don't think she's made a record in forever. You know, she's. Her makeup line is. Is made her a billionaire, so good for her. And what I love about Rihanna, too, is she the minute she stopped, like, being an active pop star, she began eating food. And she looks very happy now. And so last night, she debuted what looks like a baby bump. So baby number three with ASAP Rocky is on the way again. Another one I just hope has a very good lawyer in her corner. I don't see that relationship ending well. Yes.

[Interviewer]

We have to at least prenup post, numb, fingers crossed.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes. And always a good alibi. Okay. Keep a good alibi. And then the final guy I want to talk to you about, because this is going to transition into our next segment, is Sean Diddy Combs, who was absent last night and who previously had comported himself on the red carpet at the Met Gala thusly. So this first image, he is taking a seat on the steps, lounging with the sole of his Christian Louboutin shoe evident. That is a flex. That is to say, this shoe cost $5,000. And I run this show. Okay. It's not Anna. It's me. I'm the king. Okay, this next look, Kinsey, tell me what you think. Diddy, again, add another Met Gala looking like a Jedi Sith Lord. Yes.

[Interviewer]

A haunted TJ Maxx. It looks like he's at a haunted TJ Maxx. Not the Met Gala, but yes.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, to me, it's Ruffles. It's up to his neck in God now we know what. And to me, it's sort of like he's showing us exactly who he is. It's like, in my opinion, evil personified.

[Interviewer]

Well, you know, I worked with him. I didn't have a problem with him. But I have been horrified by everything that's come out. So I'm looking forward your coverage.

[Maureen Callahan]

Well, thank you, Kinsey. And thank you so much for joining and talking a little smack about some of these most ridiculous people. And I hope you will come back.

[Interviewer]

I will. I will. Thank you so much. Adore you.

[Maureen Callahan]

Thanks, Kinsey. Same to you. Bye. Bye. And you guys, before we go right into this next segment, I want to go into the people who were not at the Met Gala last night. And a lot of these people, a lot of these A listers dropped out last night. Minute okay, last minute. And if you don't think this has anything to do with Diddy, I'm gonna. I'm gonna convince you. Number one, LeBron James, who was the host, okay. The co host with Anna Wintour. LeBron James, who said the only way he would miss the Met gala was if the Lakers continued on. And by the way, guess what? The Lakers lost the other night, so they're done for the season. There's absolutely no reason for him to have met Guess. Guess who, guess who missed it. LeBron. Guess who once had wonderful things to say about Diddy, such as this.

[Justin Bieber]

Hey, everybody know ain't no party like a Diddy party.

[Usher]

So yeah, that's what's up.

[Maureen Callahan]

Ain't no party like a Diddy party. Now, as we all know, these freak offs would happen after big events like this. You're telling me Lebron has no idea? You're telling me that Anna Wintour has no idea? Okay, moving on to Naomi Campbell, who once dated Diddy. No show. Last night, up until the last effing minute, it was like, is Naomi coming? Is she not coming? She's only the biggest black supermodel on the planet. She's only the one most known for throwing cell phones at the help. Is she going to show up? She did not. Now she also has had alleged ties to Jeffrey Epstein. In November 2023, Naomi threw Diddy a lavish 53rd birthday party in London. Very exclusive, very, you know, chichi, whatever. November 2023 was also the same month that Cassie filed her lawsuit against Diddy, alleging no shortage of personal horrors visited upon her. Also not in attendance. Anna's pet, Blake Lively. Not there. Ryan Reynolds. Her husband. Not there. Could this have anything to do with a certain lawsuit that she's brought that has now made her rapidly Persona non grata in celeb circles? Perhaps. Just saying. I find this very interesting. Also not there. Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce. Taylor Swift keeping her distance from Blake Lively. I believe Taylor Swift is now also keeping her distance from anybody who has anything to do with Diddy. Sarah Jessica Parker goes every year. And not only does she go every year, she takes the assignment very seriously. She brings it. She always looks incredible. She always looks entirely original. Sudden. She's sudden. No show, guys. Sudden. No show. Oprah. No show. Black dandyism. Oprah's gonna miss out on this crap with her Ozempic body. Well, she's not there. And finally, and I think most intriguingly, JLO is not there. Last year, JLO used the Met gala to show us how great she was doing in the aftermath of Ben Affleck fleeing in the dead of freaking night after an alleged visit from the feds. JLO not at the Met gala. So up next we are going to dive into the Diddy trial with my next guest who is one of the greatest criminal defense attorneys in the country, Tom Canuff. And also as you know, but just a friendly reminder, I want to hear your thoughts on this. Anything else, any of the segments we've done, any of the segments you'd love us to do, email me at maureenvilmaycare media.com and we will be back in a minute. You know the secret to great days is of course better nights. It all starts by turning your bedroom into a sanctuary with Cozy Earth. Their bamboo sheet set is something special. It is the softest, the coolest, the most luxurious sheets you will ever own. They are breathable, they are temperature regulating and they are crafted to help you sleep like it actually matters because few things matter more and it's in your control. So imagine crawling into bed every night and feeling restored, refreshed and ready to take on the day. Also, don't forget about their bamboo pajamas which are lightweight yet cozy and designed to help you fall asleep faster and stay asleep longer. It is the sleepwear upgrade you didn't know you needed but you definitely deserve. Cozy Earth makes it easy to try for yourself self. You get 100 nights risk free to fall in love. Plus every bedding product is backed by a 10 year warranty. So take the time to prioritize your sleep and prioritize yourself. Visit cozyearth.com and start sleeping better with cozy Earth today. That's cozyearth.com wow. Incredible. Amazing. Lumify Redness Reliever Eye drops really work.

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[Maureen Callahan]

Welcome back. Joining me now to discuss I think the trial of the year, if potentially not this century. I think this thing is going to dwarf. Harvey Weinstein is criminal defense attorney Thomas Knuff. Now, Tom represented Daniel Penney, a young New Yorker, a Marine, a veteran, but you know, a Marine is always a Marine in a negligent homicide case here in New York City that garnered national attention and and trust me when I tell you that as far as the media was Concerned and many keen eyed observers, Daniel Penney was walking a tightrope and Tom and his team got justice for Daniel Penney. Today we are talking Diddy. Jury selection has begun in a New York City courtroom on Monday. In this trial, they began with a pool of 150 potential jurors who are currently being winnowed down as we speak. And the number one question that these jurors are being asked is, are you willing to watch videos of these freak offs? Now here's the evidence that has been submitted to the court of public opinion thus far. The Cassie Hotel video of Diddy brutally, savagely beating this woman, his then girlfriend, as she attempted to escape a freak off. This is in a Los Angeles Hotel in 2016. And what we are looking at is here she comes. She's at, she's, she's putting on her shoes. This is what kind of a rush she's in. She's at the elevator bank. She's pressed the down button. Here comes Diddy in a towel, only a towel. He throws her to the ground and he starts kicking her. And if you look at her, you can see she has been here many times before because she has just gone limp. She's dead. She's playing possum. She's trying to protect her organs, her internal organs. And then he grabs her by the arm or the hair down the hall. Now this was caught on hotel security cam footage. This is what this guy does in public. Okay? Imagine what he does in private. The next thing we're going to look at is Diddy with a very young, a tenderly young, Justin Bieber. Take a look, Justin.

[Usher]

He's in. You ever seen the movie 48 Hours? Right now he's having 48 hours with Diddy. Him and his boy, they're having the times of their lives. Like, you know, where we hanging out and what we doing, we can't really disclose, but it's definitely a 15 year old's dream. You know, I have been given custody of him. You know, he signed to Usher. I had legal guardianship of Usher when, you know, he did his first album, I did us his first album. I don't really, I don't have legal guardianship of him, but for the next 48 hours he's with me. So, yeah, and we gonna go full buck, full crazy.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay? I think we all are witnessing Justin Bieber decompensate in real time and I think we all know why. Okay, next up is the Stern interview. This interview that Usher gave to Howard Stern in 2016 in which Usher Spoke about being sent to go live with diddy as a 13 year old to be mentored and groomed into a pop star. Watch this.

[Justin Bieber]

I moved to New York City and I lived with Sean Puffy Combs for a year.

[Commercial Voiceover]

That's the crazy thing. Now, that was LA Reid's idea, right? We're sending you over to something called Puffy Flavor Camp.

[Maureen Callahan]

There you go. To learn Flavor Camp.

[Tom Cuniff]

Flavor.

[Commercial Voiceover]

That's what it was called. And you're gonna go to Puff Daddy's.

[Maureen Callahan]

He's gonna.

[Justin Bieber]

In the 90s. Do you understand what that's like?

[Commercial Voiceover]

But you were 13. What were you seeing?

[Justin Bieber]

I went there to see the lifestyle, right? And I saw it. And it was. And it was. But I don't know if I could indulge and understand what I was even looking at. It was. It was pretty wild.

[Maureen Callahan]

So nobody tried to, you know, some woman didn't come along? I didn't say that. Okay.

[Justin Bieber]

What I did say is that there were very curious things taking place and I didn't necessarily understand it.

[Commercial Voiceover]

14 years old, you're a dad now. Would you ever send your kid to Puffy Camp?

[Justin Bieber]

Hell no.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay, first of all, at the top of that interview, Usher said he was 13, not 14. Usher is currently 46. That means these events happened over 30 years ago, which means that this has been going on for decades. And everybody's known, trust me, everybody in the industry knows about this. Usher also gave an interview to Rolling Stone magazine in which he said, quote, this is a 2004 interview. Quote, There was. There was always girls around. You'd open a door and see somebody doing it or several people in a room having an orgy. Okay? He's a teenager. Lastly, one of Diddy's attorneys, his name is Anthony Rico. This guy is a hardened New York City criminal defense attorney. He withdrew ahead of the trial maybe like a month ago. He went to the judge and he said, quote, under no circumstances can I continue to effectively serve as a counsel for Sean Combs. He asked to be let off this case immediately. Typically, there is a protocol. There are steps you have to go through. You can't just cut and run right away. Guess what? In this case, the judge said, go with God. You're off. You're done. Now, I took a look at Rico's past client list, and when I tell you, you're never going to guess who this man defended, not once, but twice, you're going to fall off your chair. Okay, let's take a look at this. So what we're looking at is A side by side of Sean Diddy Combs and Osama bin Laden. Okay? Anthony Rico represented Osama bin Laden and his conspirators in not one, my friends, but two cases in the 93 bombing of the World Trade center and in a 1998 bombing of the United States Embassy. Okay? This guy went to the mat for bin Laden twice, but he cannot serve as Diddy's criminal attorney. That is a bridge too far. Tom, first of all, welcome to the Nerve. Thank you so much for coming on the show. We are honored to have you. Please tell me how a New York City defense attorney gets to leave so fast without going through the proper required steps of recusing oneself from a criminal case.

[Tom Cuniff]

Look, the answer, unfortunately, probably not the one you're looking for is, we may never know. There are a variety of reasons why a criminal. Certainly it's unusual, particularly this late in the proceedings, but there are reasons why a criminal defense attorney could make the request to get off the case and why the judge in certain situations could be constrained to grant it. And one of them is, you know, if the attorney becomes conflicted. So it is possible, for instance, particularly in these federal cases, a lot of the discovery will be referred as 3500 material you don't get until the eve of trial if it appears, for instance, let's say that the government is calling as a prosecution witness someone where there's a conflict with the defense attorney where I said, look, I can't represent this client without being conflicted because of my prior relationship or current relationship with this witness. That could be one. There certainly could be other more sinister reasons, and those certainly may be at play here. We don't really know exactly.

[Maureen Callahan]

I mean, I'm gonna say, Tom, the way Page Six reported it, it didn't seem as sort of like, dry and uninteresting as, like, I have a conflict with, like, someone on the process. It sounded like, holy, I have seen into the gates of hell. This guy is worse than the worst terrorist in modern history. And I. You got to cut me loose, man, because, like, I'm afraid for my safety. Just my supposition.

[Tom Cuniff]

Look, that. That is, you know, I mean, that. That is certainly an inference one can draw. And I don't know.

[Maureen Callahan]

You're such a lawyer.

[Tom Cuniff]

Yeah, listen, you have a lawyer on. You get lawyerly answers. I don't know what to tell you. You know, there are situations like that that have occurred, and, you know, it's possible it could be something a little less sensational than Page Six would like to admit, but we don't know. But certainly at this stage in the case, it's eye opening, I'll give you that.

[Maureen Callahan]

I think it's wild. I think this means we're in for a ride. Like a ride. Okay, so then last week, it was reported that Diddy denied a plea deal. I think if I'm correct, it was the same thing with Harvey. Now, I have a theory, and I'm wondering if you have seen this where this is only my opinion. I'm not saying it's yours or anybody else's, that with guys like this who have this amount of money, this amount of fame, this amount of power, and who are used to calling the shots and who maybe interpret maybe. I'm being extremely generous here. Say an act of rape, right? So an act of. It's sort of like, well, this person wanted it. They're lucky to be with me. Right. Like maybe this is a little bit of, you know, a game. Why don't guys like this ever take plea deals?

[Tom Cuniff]

Well, one thing that I think your. Your viewers and listeners should keep in mind, you know, and a lot of people don't, would have no reason to really perceive this unless they worked in the system. But the state system and the federal system are very different in a lot of ways. But one of the ways they're most different is, you know, on the state level, particularly in a place like New York City, where I practice. You know, we have this Persian bizarre type plea bargaining. You know, someone is charged with attempted murder, will let them plead to assault, and you'll get this many years, and it's wrapped up nice and tight on the federal level, where Diddy, for better or worse, probably worse, if you're him or his attorneys, finds himself, that's not the practice, particularly not in the Southern District of New York, where this case is pending. You know, if you. A guilty plea in 99% of the cases in federal court means you plead guilty to the indictment, and then you look for mercy from the judge to deviate from the federal sentencing guidelines and give you a lesser sentence than you might otherwise, you know, fall into. Okay. The problem for Diddy is that the, The. The human trafficking charge in particular is one of the reasons why federal prosecutors love to charge. This carries with it a yes, that he could be sentenced to life in prison. And that's a real possibility here. But at minimum, the.

[Usher]

The.

[Tom Cuniff]

The most merciful judge, the most sympathetic judge, could not deviate below the 15 year minimum sentence.

[Maureen Callahan]

Wow.

[Tom Cuniff]

So I don't know the terms of any plea offer. If There was one. I don't think that's public, but if there was the, the overwhelming, like it had a cap of 15 years on it, which would make it probably a lot less entice, a lot less enticing to someone in his position.

[Maureen Callahan]

It would be less enticing to take a deal that would maybe be 15 years than to roll the dice with again. I mean, we've seen video evidence that, I mean, the public is repulsed by him. I personally think he'll get convicted and he'll never see the light of day again. What is the mentality, Instead of taking 15, be done and out, he's young enough, or, or roll the dice with a, with a life sentence?

[Tom Cuniff]

I think. Listen, I've had clients that, that see it in all different ways. I've had clients charged with homicide and they're, they would not plead guilty to a parking ticket if it was offered. I've had other clients that maybe have very strong defenses, but say, look, you know, Tom, get me anything that guarantees me less jail than I might otherwise have to do, and I'm taking it because I'm not, I don't have the risk tolerance in this situation. Look, you know, yes, a judge being most merciful could give him a 15 year minimum, couldn't go below that, but there's certainly no guarantee that a judge is going to do that, particularly a federal judge in the Southern District of New York. So, yes, he'd have a chance at 15 years, but the judge certainly could go higher within that, even with a plea. So when you start looking at it through that lens and you're in his situation and you have the ego and you, you think you're, you know, you think you're in the right, then you know, maybe you roll the dice.

[Maureen Callahan]

So it was also reported that Diddy has added an eighth defense lawyer to his team. How many lawyers would a client facing these very specific, damaging, potentially again, going away for life. How many lawyers would a client like this typically need or hire? And why?

[Tom Cuniff]

I mean, eight lawyers is certainly a large number. I mean, it's not uncommon to see defense teams in any high profile criminal case, state or federal. You know, sometimes you'll see two, three, four lawyers. Right. The OJ Dreams dream team.

[Maureen Callahan]

I was just gonna say that OJ Only had like three. Right. That we saw. Yeah, yeah.

[Tom Cuniff]

You know, eight is getting up there. I think what you're starting to see, what's more common nowadays is, you know, you may have a team of, you know, three or four attorneys, but you have other People assisting in a litigation. For instance, in Daniel Penny's case, we had Joellen Demetrius as our jury consultant, and she had us. They're not lawyers, but. But that's her expertise. So during jury selection, you had the. Myself and Steven Razor at the defense table, and we had our jury selection team behind us. And then once the jury was picked, they went on their way. Then, of course, we had experts, as I'm sure we're going to see in this case. But, yes, eight attorneys working on one case, that is, with one defendant. By the way, you know, it's interesting about this indictment. Ordinarily, or often in these federal indictments, mistakenly, cases involving racketeering, conspiracy, there's a number of defendants. So when you see the trial, you see all these lawyers. They're representing different people. Here you have eight attorneys representing one individual. That's high.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah. I mean, Tom, I'm thinking okay. I'm thinking okay in terms of if I'm on the jury, which I would not want to be on this jury, honestly, I would fear for my life. So to those brave souls who are doing it, like, really, we owe them a lot. But if I saw one defendant with eight or more attorneys, I would think, this guy's guilty. Let's just call it a day. I mean, it could boomerang on him, right?

[Tom Cuniff]

It could. I mean, a couple of things to keep in mind. You know, generally, the prosecution, you know, remember, you know, in defense of his legal strategy, if not his conduct itself, you know, the Southern District, you're going up against the unlimited resources of the federal government. And again, particularly in the Southern District of New York, considered the creme de la creme of federal prosecutors offices where they prosecute the bin Ladens of the world and many more, you know, they're going to have a team of prosecutors, they're going to have their agents sitting at the table. So they will. They're going to have more than one or two lawyers themselves. Do I still think aid is a lot particular to have in court sitting at the defense table? Absolutely. If no other reason, you know, you don't want too many chefs in the kitchen. And, you know, it's good to have some diversity of opinion, diversity of skill. Sometimes, you know, for instance, if you have a female witness, particularly in a case involving these kind of allegations, you may want to. You may prefer to have a female lawyer deal with that witness. Not because any, you know, gender is better at cross examination than any other, but a female lawyer can be more aggressive. Other things being equal towards a. Would Be vulnerable. Female witness.

[Maureen Callahan]

Absolutely.

[Tom Cuniff]

Say somebody like me, Right?

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah. So, absolutely.

[Tom Cuniff]

Things like that. But yes, 8. 8 may be more than enough.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah. Even Harvey, who I. I'll tell my Harvey story someday. But even he had, like, one of his main lawyers was. Was a woman, and he did that intentionally. Okay, I'm just. I don't. I don't know for a fact, but I'm just saying I know Harvey's legal.

[Tom Cuniff]

Team very well, and the first time around, yeah, I can't remember her name, but there was a woman from the Midwest, and now he has a female attorney who actually watched a lot of her cross last week. I was in the courtroom. Jennifer Bonjean, who I known for a long time. She's very good, and she's working under Rdala, who's a very close friend of mine.

[Maureen Callahan]

So, yeah, he's a brilliant guy.

[Tom Cuniff]

More than one attorney, high profile case. Very common. Sometimes you have two, sometimes three. You know, once you start getting north of that, it's. Yeah, it stands out a bit. Sure.

[Maureen Callahan]

So I want to talk to you a bit about the defense strategy, as has been leaked slash reported that we know of thus far. And I think all reasonable people can agree. But I would just like to get the ratification of a seasoned, brilliant defense attorney such as yourself, that when the feds bring an indictment against you, it is time to get your affairs in order, because they win, like, 99% of the cases they bring.

[Tom Cuniff]

Yeah, certainly in a case like this. And look, you know, one of the reasons why the feds are so successful.

[Maureen Callahan]

All right?

[Tom Cuniff]

And it's not because the, you know, assistant U.S. attorneys or, you know, all these brilliant trial lawyers, many of them are very, very good, and they have great pedigree and so forth. So it's not a knock on them, but. But it really has to do with the. The tools they've been given to obtain convictions. They do not have to worry about resources. I said that already. The way your state's attorney, district attorney's offices do. The environment is in a federal courtroom is much more controlled and lends itself much less to, you know, the sort of theatrics may not be the right word, but. But the defense attorneys have less room to roam in a federal court.

[Maureen Callahan]

Interesting.

[Tom Cuniff]

Than in. In a. In a state court. One of those. For example, in jury selection, you know, jury selection in federal court. That's a stark difference between most any state court I've been in. And I've prosecuted cases in state courts in many different parts of the country. In addition to New York Is, you know, void deer. Jury selection, we call voidir, is an opportunity in state court to really start trying your case, start indoctrinating, start, you know, conditioning the jury to your theory of the case, in addition to weeding out, you know, the ones you want and the ones you don't. In federal court, the ability to do that is stymied almost completely because the prosecutor, the judge, reads questions to the jury that the judge. Yes, you do get to request the questions you want answered, asked by time and answered by time. They get back to you. They're usually whittled down. The things you really want aren't in there. And then the judge conducts the jury selection. And again, a very stilted environment. That's a big.

[Maureen Callahan]

Fascinating. So the jury is a potential juror is having these questions read in a rather clinical manner. Yes. By a third party who is, you know, obviously there to adjudicate. And so that's fascinating. So I want to. Okay. Before I run out of time with you, Tom, I want to do sort of a lightning round of the defense strategy as we now know it. These are very early days, so, you know, we're going to get better material, I'm sure. Okay. Number one, as to the. My language. Excuse me. Shit. Ton of baby oil that the feds confiscated from Diddy's residence. Baby oil that he was alleged to have used in the commission of these crimes during these freak offs, which were allegedly laced with a narcotic drug that knocked out his alleged victim so he and his cohorts could have their way with said victims. His defense attorneys are going to argue that just like all of us who go to Costco, he likes to buy in bulk.

[Tom Cuniff]

Well, what. What is going on here? I mean, in the federal. The federal prosecutors, this is something they're very good at. This is, you know, wily trade, Wiley craft in their. In their toolbox, if you will. And they do this particularly here in this jurisdiction where they will marry unsavory conduct. You know, conduct that makes us go ew or yuck or even. Even kind of, let's say, that may be criminal, but is not subject to the indictment. Right. So you know what. What his lawyers may say was really a domestic violence incident with him and his girlfriend. And it's horrific and all that, but it has nothing to do with racketeering, conspiracy, human trafficking, prostitution.

[Maureen Callahan]

Right. But to get back to the baby oil, what would you. What would your defense like? He buys in bulk.

[Tom Cuniff]

Right, Right.

[Maureen Callahan]

What would you say to that?

[Tom Cuniff]

Whether he buys in bulk or not? Look, you know, so people, you know, do have sex parties, right? People in Hollywood, you know, whether they're music moguls.

[Maureen Callahan]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Tom Cuniff]

They have illicit sex. You know, there was the Playboy Mansion, you know, that goes on. It is not always without consent. Even regular, ordinary mortals, you know, engage in all different, you know, swinging lifestyle.

[Maureen Callahan]

Well, this is part two of the defense approach, which is he simply has an alternative lifestyle, and it. Can you, as a potential juror, be open to that?

[Tom Cuniff]

Right, so the baby oil in itself. I mean, if I'm a defensive person. Yeah, look, this guy had these wild sex parties. There was plenty of opportunity when you were a, you know, at the top of the hip hop industry. There's no shortage of willing participants. And he used lubricants. Okay, News at 11. All right.

[Maureen Callahan]

I love this. Oh, my God, you're brilliant. Okay, the third and final one, Tom, is. He is. His lawyers are planning to argue that at the time of the commission of these crimes, he had, like, a diminished mental capacity. I believe that those are the words, diminished mental capacity. So that he didn't understand if these are crimes that he was committing crimes. But if you're quote, unquote, crime spree has lasted, say, three decades. Can. Can a defense team prove that this guy was at the top of his game, ran the world of hip hop, but had diminished capacity for over 30 years in this single area?

[Tom Cuniff]

That would be a tough sell, in my judgment. You know, but I think, you know, the. The other reason, and I know we're getting. Getting short on time. The other reason why federal prosecutors tend to be overwhelmingly successful is because the laws are written by Congress for them to use and prosecute and get convictions. Just a reality of it. You know, the sex trafficking, which is really where he faces the worst consequence here. There's three words to it by fraud, force, or coercion. Right. Well, we pretty much all understand what force is, right? You hold someone down and, you know, they're an unwilling participant. When you start getting into things like fraud and coercion, then there's a question of, you know, what does that mean? I mean, does. Is pouring someone a heavier glass of wine out on a date in the hope that you might loosen them up for later. Is that. Is that coercive? Is. Is. Is seducing someone with your prowess in the entertainment industry so that they believe that you might be able to arrange for them or an audition or apart.

[Maureen Callahan]

Or what have you.

[Tom Cuniff]

Is that coercive or is that, you know, a casting couch? And so, you know, the prosecutors are Going to have to prove a men's ray element here that, you know, what he was doing was he was intending to subject these individuals to, you know, sexual, sexual conduct. You know, it was not of their own free will, their own free participation. And if he's on drugs and he's high himself and he thinks I'm just living this party and everyone loves hanging out with me because I'm diddy, I don't know. 30, 30 years of diminished capacity, though. That's a, that's a new one.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, I agree with you. That's a tough sell, you know, but hey, I'm, I'm, I, I can't wait to, I can't wait to watch this trial unfold. It's going to go through at least mid summer again. I think it's one for the ages. And I'm so happy and grateful that you came on the show and elucidated so many things for us and explained and I hope you will come back. Thank you, Tom Knuff.

[Tom Cuniff]

All right. Great being here.

[Maureen Callahan]

Great having you. And just a quick coda to that conversation with Tom. A bunch of celebrities names have already begun to surface in this very, very, very early part of the Diddy trial. We're only in jury selection, okay? These are the names that came out. And by the way, the judge said the number of names that are going to come out are going to be like this. She compared it, she compared this portion of the, of the trial to the Lord of the Rings books that are like door stoppers, okay? So there are a lot of people going to ground right now. And as said in that earlier segment, those people who didn't show up at the Met gala last night, I think, I think they might be very worried, okay? The names thus far that have come up, Kanye, shock of all shockers, okay? Kanye's name came up. Kid Cudi, who told the New York Times. The New York Times, that Sean Combs threw a Molotov cocktail in his car and blew it up because they were both interested in the same woman, okay? Michael B. Jordan, the actor, the young actor, Michael B. Jordan. Now, this guy's only been famous for, I think maybe five to seven years. And it kind of took me aback. But I was talking to Bill from Brooklyn about it last night, and he said, well, imagine like you're newly famous and a super famous guy like Diddy says, hey, why don't you come in? Like, why don't you come into my life? Why don't you come into some of my parties, Come hang out. Let me introduce you to some people. Let me hook you up. And you, as you know, a newly minted celebrity might be thinking, well, this guy has to be safe because he's ultra famous, right? So what's a safer place? Well, I think Michael might be about to find out. The opposite might be often the case. Okay, this one really took me by surprise. Mike Myers. Mike Myers, the Canadian nerd. Former SNL star Austin Powers is now involved, apparently in the Diddy trial. Okay, and again, this one took me by surprise. But as Bill from Brooklyn said to me, you know, all those SNL people are freaks, allegedly. And I said, you know what? I, I gotta hand it to you. So he'll be back soon anyway because we'll be diving into a lot of this stuff and I think, I don't know where else we could leave it. You know, this is, this has been an amazing week. We're back on Friday. Another great show planned for you. We've already got many things underway and I'm looking forward to seeing you then on the Nerf where you will never guess what we are about to say next.

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