Ryan Reynolds' ATOMIC Texts, Silent Clues in Guthrie Investigation, and a Very Nerve-y Valentine

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Nerve with Maureen Callahan

Episode: Ryan Reynolds' ATOMIC Texts, Silent Clues in Guthrie Investigation, and a Very Nerve-y Valentine

Date: February 13, 2026
Host: Maureen Callahan
Guests: Mark Bowden (Body Language Expert, Truth Plane)

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Overview & Main Theme

Maureen Callahan delivers an episode that’s equal parts forensic investigation, pop culture dissection, and biting media critique. The centerpiece is a deep dive, with expert Mark Bowden, into the ongoing Nancy Guthrie abduction case—an explosive true-crime saga entwined with the high-pressure world of morning television and celebrity culture. The episode peels back the layers of public image, raw family distress, and the behind-the-scenes jockeying for power at NBC’s Today show, all while holding a signature Nerve-style grudge against Ryan Reynolds’ and Blake Lively’s Hollywood antics. Expect sharp skepticism, relentless curiosity, and quotable asides.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Nancy Guthrie Abduction Forensics

Nest Cam Footage Breakdown — [06:00–12:15]

• The FBI released crucial footage showing the suspected abductor at Nancy Guthrie’s doorstep.
• Mark Bowden’s Analysis:
  • Suspect is “prepared to an extent and calm, but not completely assured” ([07:04]).
  • Carries a weapon “in the groin position,” but “doesn’t know how to deal with the camera.”
  • The way he interacts with the camera and searches for cover (“some plant material”) points to someone who’s “not a professional for sure” and may be left-handed.
  • “This person is ill-prepared somewhat and not completely assured. This is a very different person to you, Maureen, at this doorbell right now.” ([11:32])
• Both Callahan and Bowden agree: the suspect’s composure and behavior indicate someone unfamiliar with high-stakes criminal acts but lacking in standard fear response.

Family Video Statements & Body Language — [12:17–30:31]

• Examination of Savannah Guthrie’s on-camera pleas, scripted by the FBI.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Bowden: “This is not a message to us... This is a message that has been scripted by the FBI. It’s going to sound bureaucratic... because it’s been scripted by a bureau.” ([16:57])
• Subtle familial dynamics:
  • Siblings display stress: heavy breathing, high blink rates. Bowden notes, “The male…has been chosen not to deliver anything because... he wouldn’t deliver this script in the way it needs to be delivered… he can deal with stress, but he’s also trained to be aggressive.” ([19:53])
  • Absence of gestures of comfort between siblings suggests tension or careful staging.
  • The second plea video’s camera angle (from above) is a classic hostage negotiation tactic: “You are in control. So this is now hostage negotiation.” ([28:44])
  • Possible indicators of loss of hope and emotional strain leak through in “micro-expressions” from Savannah’s sister Annie.

Suspect Focus & Public Scrutiny

• Discussion of strange public behaviors and media interactions from prime suspects (e.g., Guthrie family in-laws).
• Bowden observes: “All it does for me…is it asks a lot of questions… that they’re not answering at this point.” ([26:50])

2. Law Enforcement's Media Performance

Sheriff Nanos’ Pressers — [31:08–35:08]

• The sheriff’s messaging is analyzed for credibility and strategic competence.
• Bowden: “It was an absolute missed opportunity… makes me feel like he wasn’t prepared for this. Absolutely not prepared for this.” ([31:48])
• Comparison drawn to the FBI’s controlled, confident communication style.

3. Studio 1A as a Battleground: Today Show Power Struggles

Succession Drama & Host Dynamics — [36:45–46:23]

• Dissection of subtleties as Hoda Kotb returns, allegedly “beaming” at the opportunity potentially presented by Savannah’s absence.
• Notable moment: “She wants to get going on this... she enforces that we are a family... and by invoking that... it’s hard to challenge her presence.” ([37:44–39:16])
• Maureen picks up on on-air power plays (e.g., hand on the back signaling dominance).
• Bowden’s acerbic take: “That’s the nature of the family, isn’t it?... It isn’t a family. It’s a corporation.” ([39:06])

Fourth Hour: Emotional Exploitation?

• Callahan and Bowden critique other hosts (Chanel & Jenna) for apparently co-opting the tragedy; body language reads as performative, self-soothing, or self-serving.
• Bowden: “These are adapters, and they tend to denote stress… It’s out of baseline for them. It’s unconscious.” ([42:42])
• Bowden sums up their emotional displays as “about the wrong thing... her relationship to her child, rather than about her friend or the abducted person.” ([44:49])

4. Celebrity News: Ryan Reynolds’ “ATOMIC” Texts — [72:46–94:10]

• Dramatic readings and analysis of aggrieved, grandiloquent text and email outbursts from Ryan Reynolds (and agent Patrick Whitesell) surrounding the legal drama with Justin Baldoni.
• Maureen excoriates Reynolds’ verbosity, ego, and bullying tactics:
  • “First of all, these are court documents... one of which is 1000 words in length... That’s longer than my average column in the Daily Mail. This guy’s writing columns, okay?” ([72:57])
  • Ridicules Ryan's mangling of “diffuse/defuse”: “Ryan, spell diffuse D-I-F-F-U-S-E. That is the incorrect spelling... Maybe you would have learned better grammar had you not burned your school down.” ([73:44])
  • Emphasizes players’ hypocrisy, self-aggrandizement, and the insular nature of Hollywood PR battles.
• Choice excerpts from Ryan's texts:
  • “She made this a win for Sony and by proxy, Wayfarer, which is Justin’s company. She refused to give up on the film. She didn’t sleep. I’m sorry. She stole this movie.” ([74:20])
  • On Baldoni: “He’s an inexplicably toxic mess... presents as a feminist ally/warrior when he’s actually a thoroughbred predatory fraudster.” ([82:37])
  • On Hollywood dynamics: “He’s a bit Trumpy in the sense that he just labels everybody else the very thing he is himself.” ([86:00])

5. Pop Culture & True Crime Reflections

• Brief eulogy for James Van Der Beek, with practical advice about cancer screenings and a warning against forgoing medical treatment ([49:15–53:38]).
• Listener feedback highlights: The community's scorn for Today show hosts they see as opportunistic and morally bankrupt ([53:38–63:38]).
• Satirical Nerve Valentine for Stedman Graham, packed with escape/hideout gear ([63:45–72:46]).

6. Culture Critique: 'Death Trap' Movie & Media Voyeurism

• Maureen draws parallels from the 1982 film Death Trap to contemporary culture and true crime fanhood:
  • “Nobody gives a shit who did what or who they did it to. All they want is to be in on it. I mean, you killed your wife, that’s okay. Why don’t you abuse your kids, poison a well, flog bats. As long as you get on television, talk about it afterwards.” ([94:13])
  • Concludes with a sharp reminder of complicity in media spectacle.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Mark Bowden on the FBI Scripted Family Video:
  • "Nobody in their right mind, if their parent has been potentially captured in this way, nobody would come up with that script themselves." ([17:44])
• Maureen on Today Show Backstabbing:
  • "They are jackals, Mark. They don't give a crap." ([40:22])
• On Emotional Performances at the Today Show:
  • Bowden: “There is some clear worry about this story. And it’s interesting. She [Jenna] says, that’s my home church. That’s my home church. Well, then go home. When your family's in trouble, visit the home.” ([43:45])
• Maureen on Ryan Reynolds' Overwriting:
  • “This is a father of four, like, with a baby. You could argue maybe he's up with a baby, but I think they have help in night nurses... Excuse the long text. Todd Black called me in a bit of a panic. It didn't go well because he's looking to brainstorm ways to define diffuse the stuff with Baldoni. Ryan, spell diffuse D I F F U S E. That is the incorrect spelling. Maybe you would have learned better grammar had you not burned your school down.” ([73:44])
• On Hoda’s Return as Career Move:
  • Listener: “Watching Hoda on your Nerve at Night made me sick. To see her literally beaming and soaking up the afterglow of Savannah’s spotlight was truly ghoulish… When actions do not square with words, trust the actions. Believe what you see people do, not what you imagine they ought to do.” ([54:45])
• On Modern True Crime Voyeurism (Death Trap Thesis Scene):
  • Christopher Reeve's character: “Nobody gives a shit who did what or who they did it to. All they want is to be in on it...As long as you get on television, talk about it afterwards…” ([94:13])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Nest Cam/Bowden forensic analysis: [06:00–12:17]
• Family body language, ransom videos: [12:17–30:31]
• Sheriff Nanos’ presser critique: [31:08–35:08]
• Today Show intrigue (Hoda, Chanel, Jenna): [36:45–46:23]
• Listener feedback segment: [53:38–63:38]
• Stedman Graham Valentine rundown: [63:45–72:46]
• Ryan Reynolds ATOMIC texts: [72:46–94:10]
• Death Trap thesis scene & cultural reflection: [94:10–95:04]

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Tone & Language

Maureen wields her trademark, acidic wit and relentless skepticism throughout. She’s unsparing with celebrities and media personalities alike, cutting through public relations pleasantries to reveal the cynicism and self-interest at play. Mark Bowden’s clinical, detail-oriented analysis anchors the true crime segments with gravitas, while Maureen’s irreverent asides and listener comments inject humor and righteous outrage.

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Summary for the Uninitiated

If you’re coming in cold, this episode of The Nerve offers a front-row seat to two white-hot news stories: the ongoing Guthrie abduction investigation and backstage machinations at the Today show, all filtered through forensic scrutiny and bracing pop-culture cynicism. There’s no sycophancy or sugarcoating here—just sharp minds, sharper tongues, and true crime commentary that refuses to look away.

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Transcript

[Mark Bowden]

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[Maureen Callahan]

Picture chicken nuggets in your head. Okay, now forget them, because Taco Bell's crispy chicken nuggets are here. And they're nothing like the nuggets, you know, all white meat chicken coated in tortilla chips for that signature Taco Bell crunch. A nugget like that calls for a sauce that can keep up. Introducing Hidden Valley Diablo Ranch, the iconic ranch you love. Fired up with Taco Bell Diablo sauce. Bold meets Boulder Ranch meets Diablo. And it works. Crispy chicken nuggets from Taco Bell, a brand new classic at participating US Taco Bell locations for a limited time only while supplies last. Hello and welcome to your Friday edition of the Nerve. I am your host, Maureen Callahan. We have a banger today. We heard you troublemakers loud and clear. You wanted him, you got him. Body language expert Mark Bowden is here to. To take a very deep, nuanced forensic look at many of the video images. And in one case, a key still photograph related to the Nancy Guthrie case. We're going to start with the nest cam footage, that bombshell nest cam footage that the FBI released on Tuesday. Then we're going to go to Barney Fife and his little pressers. And then we're going to go to a whole other crime scene known as Studio 1A at the today show. And what the vultures over there are doing in the. In the race to snag Savannah's seat permanently. Trust me, it's brutal. Then we're going to talk about. We lost. We lost somebody far too soon this week. We lost James Van Der Beek. We're going to talk about him. We're going to read your feedback, lighten things up a bit. We've got a valentine, a very special Valentine's Day gift that the Nerve is sending out. And we're going to run the items in this gift through you guys before we send it. And then we are turning back to psycho arsonist Ryan Reynolds. If Ryan and Blake think they're off the hook, we're going to over at the Nerve. I mean, the rest of the mainstream media is pretty much has their hands full with the Nancy Guthrie case. They're. They're not really paying that much attention. Hey, this is what the nerve is for. We pick up what others cannot. We are like a dog with a bone when it comes to Ryan and Blake. And we will not rest until they are shredded reputationally in the square. Because it's just our opinion that based on the way they tried to destroy Justin Baldoni's career, that we think they have it coming. And we're gonna hang Ryan Reynolds with his own words. It's gonna be a lot of fun. A lot of fun. So are you ready? Are you ready? Let's go. After having a few drinks, do you find it hard to bounce back the next day? Do you find yourself choosing between a great night or a great day? Try Zebiotics pre alcohol. Zebiotics is the first genetically engineered probiotic created by PhD scientists to help you feel better after drinking. Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. And it's the buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for a rough day after drinking. But pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. So remember to make pre alcohol your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly and you'll feel your best tomorrow. If you are ready to try it, go to zbiotics.com nerve now and you will get 15% off your first order when you use Nerve at checkout. Plus it's backed by a 100% money back guarantee, so there's zero risk. Subscriptions are also available for maximum consistency. So Remember, head to zebiotics.com nerve and use code nerve at checkout for 15% off. The biggest news story of the past two weeks, of course has been the abduction of today's show star Savannah Guthrie's 84 year old mother from her bed the middle of the night and she's still missing. The FBI dropped on Tuesday bombshell footage of who is surely, surely the perpetrator at Nancy's front door. And it looks like this was before the abduction. This does not look staged. And for the past several weeks, or two weeks rather, I've, I've been seeing your emails and I've been seeing you in the comments as has Team Nerve. We look at all of that stuff and you guys have been asking for Mark Bowden to come on the Nerve and break a lot of this down. You asked, we delivered. We threw up the bat signal and Mark is here. Please welcome body language expert, founder of Truth Plane, Mark Bowden to break all of this down with us Mark, welcome back to the Nerve.

[Mark Bowden]

Maureen, always great to be here. Who's got themselves into trouble this time?

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay, you know, this is unusual for us. First, we want to talk about real criminal activity. On Tuesday, FBI director Kash Patel released video and images of who we believe the man who took Nancy Guthrie, mother of today's show star Savannah Guthrie, is. I want to go through the first video with you, Mark, in which we see the suspect approaching Nancy's front door and attempting to cover the camera with his hand. Can we see that video, please? Okay. His hand is in a semicircle, but before that, like, we're getting a look at him now turning around actually, and sort of hunched over and I think quite calmly and slowly looking for something to cover up that camera lens. What do you make of that video, Mark?

[Mark Bowden]

Yeah, so what I see here is somebody who is prepared to an extent and calm, but not completely assured of what's going on. So prepared to an extent. What do I mean by that? Well, clearly there's a weapon there in a. In the groin position. There's a backpack. There's probably equipment, something involved in this into. To break in or to subdue somebody. I don't quite know what's in the backpack. But how come this person, obviously male, from the. From the, from the, you know, the body. Clearly, clearly male. How come this person hasn't prepared for the webcam, the door cam there? Anybody prepared would have some tape to stick over the top, job done. Yeah, anybody really prepared would know, I mean, really prepared would know that they don't have the account running to be able to record the video. The video will have to be searched for way, way in the back end. So I would suspect this person doesn't know. This person's doorbell camera account doesn't know anything about that account isn't prepared for a bell at all. So maybe doesn't know even that there's a webcam there. And so look, they go and get some plant material. They threat check at that point. So they look around to see is anybody watching me at this point, they're not signaling to anybody else. There's nobody with them.

[Maureen Callahan]

So.

[Mark Bowden]

So they're personally prepared for some stuff, but they're not fully prepared with a whole group of people here. It's one person alone, somewhat prepared and not completely assured. What do I mean by that? Well, for example, you see the person check with their left hand their weapon, which, from others that I've noted, it's the wrong weapon in the wrong holster. So it's going to be loose in there. So they're semi prepared with that and they're not assured that it's going to stay there. They're worried that it's going to be going to fall out or that they may need it. Anybody fully prepared will know I know exactly how my weapon is and functioning and I know exactly when I'm going to take it out and use it because they have planned, planned, planned. This person is ill prepared somewhat and not completely assured.

[Maureen Callahan]

What do you think? Not a, not a professional for sure. The left hand detail is incredible because that would seem to indicate whoever did this is left handed. That's a minority population. Most people are right handed. The thing that struck me about this individual is he seemed Quite calm, not 100% prepared, but as though this was not the first time they had been to that front doorstep. Now if this is an accomplice, someone who was hired to do it by somebody else, perhaps they'd staked the house out before or were told what to do. But I think about like going to anybody's home for the first time and you, you don't know what's on the other side of that door, right? You don't know where your eye is going to go. What is the dominant part of the house? Is it to the left, is it to the right? Is there a part of the house that's off limits or is this a house where they take their shoes off? I mean, any number of variables. And this guy just doesn't seem to me to be preoccupied with any of that. It's really just like, oh wait, I'm being, I might be being surveilled. And so I'm going to try to find some vegetation. And again, to turn your back to the front door, you're very confident that there's not another male in that house who's going to fling that door open and say, hey, what the f are you doing here?

[Mark Bowden]

Well, you're either very confident or you don't think about those things. So look, there is a neurotype. There is a bunch of people out there, not many, but who aren't going to have the same fear as you in that situation. They're not going to plan like you for that situation because their fear isn't spiked by the same things that your fear might be spiked by. And those people will tend to commit crimes because they just don't see. They just can't evaluate the risk like you just evaluated the risk. So you're right, it could be somebody who knows this really well. Okay. And so therefore they're not concerned. However, if they know it really well, why don't they know it? To the extent that they know there is no account to record video, they just wouldn't care about it and they wouldn't know. Like we know now that some video is stored in the back end somewhere. Okay. And it's just hard to get hold of because of the reasons that it may be. Is stored for and under what. What agreement you sign as a user of that doorbell as to how that that data stored in the back can be used at some. Some point. So look prepared, but not prepared to the extent that you would prepare, you know, cautious, but not cautious to the extent that you are cautious. So a very different person to you, Maureen, at this doorbell right now.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay? Absolutely. Agreed. Let's look at the first mark. When this thing broke, I was like, we've got a bookmark. I'm dying to talk to you about this. The first video that Savannah released flanked by her two siblings. This was released on the. I believe it was the evening of February 4th. And there is so much in what is not being said, the body language. I watched this multiple times, I'm sure, as have you, and I am captivated by both siblings, more so than Savannah, especially the micro expressions and head movements of the sister. Let's watch and then we'll talk about it on the back end.

[Mark Bowden]

Okay.

[Savannah Guthrie]

On behalf of our family, we want to thank all of you for the prayers for our beloved mom, Nancy. We feel them, and we continue to believe that she feels them, too. Our mom is a kind, faithful, loyal, fiercely loving woman of goodness and light. She's funny, spunky and clever. She has grandchildren that adore her and crowd around her and cover her with kisses. She loves fun and adventure. She is a devoted friend. She is full of kindness and knowledge. Talk to her and you'll see. The light is missing from our lives. Nancy is our mother. We are her children. She is our beacon. She holds fast to joy in all of life's circumstances. She chooses joy day after day, despite having already passed through great trials of pain, grief. We are always going to be merely human, Just normal, human people who need our mom.

[Mark Bowden]

Mama.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Mama, if you're listening, we need you to come home. We miss you. Our mom is our heart and our home. She's 84 years old. Her health, her heart is fragile. She lives in constant pain. She is without any medicine. She needs it to survive. She needs it not to suffer. We too have heard the reports about a ransom letter in the media as A family. We are doing everything that we can. We are ready to talk. However, we live in a world where voices and images are easily manipulated. We need to know without a doubt that she is alive and that you have her. We want to hear from you and we are ready to listen. Please reach out to us, Mommy. If you are hearing this, you are a strong will woman. You are God's precious daughter. Nancy. We believe and know that even in this valley, he is with you. Everyone is looking for you, Mommy, everywhere. We will not rest. Your children will not rest until we are together again.

[Maureen Callahan]

Again.

[Savannah Guthrie]

We speak to you every moment and we pray without ceasing. And we rejoice in advance for the day that we hold you in our arms again. We love you, Mom. Love you, Mom.

[Maureen Callahan]

We love you, Mom. Stay strong.

[Savannah Guthrie]

We love you.

[Maureen Callahan]

We love you, Mark. I give it to you.

[Mark Bowden]

Yeah. Look, first thing to think about in this is this is not a message to us. So there's going to be things about this message that don't make a lot of sense to us because we're not the audience for this. The audience that this message is designed for is the potential captor and the person resisting that capture. The person trying to deal with the potential incarceration that they. They have and capture that they have.

[Maureen Callahan]

You mean the mother.

[Mark Bowden]

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. And also, this is a message that has been scripted by the FBI, that's the Federal Bureau of Investigation. So it's going to sound very bureaucratic to us because it has been scripted by a bureau.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah.

[Mark Bowden]

And so there's wording in there that is designed to try and get a certain result because statistically they believe if you say certain things, it will get you more of a result that if you say other things. And when you package all of these statistics together, you get a speech which is a little bit odd, and you have to read it because nobody in their right mind, if their parent has been potentially captured in this way, nobody would come up with that script themselves. Okay. So look, it's heavily, heavily scripted, which is why they have to have that script, right? Yeah. Which is why you're going to get like high blink rate from one of them. One of them is used to working off auto cue, you know, and the. And the other. And working off a script. And the other is female. Is. Is not many.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes. Her stress is high blink rate and heavy breathing. That chest is visibly moving up and down.

[Mark Bowden]

Both. Both the siblings at the side there have got the same heavy breathing because they're both in sorrow. They're Both in sorrow. They're slightly out of sync with each other, but they both have sorrowful breathing. The sibling in the. In the center there, Savannah. Savannah, she's a little more conf. A little more confident about this because she's used to delivering off a script the same time. Not this kind of script and not in this circumstance. So you've got her delivering a performance that we wouldn't normally expect from her. And these two on the outside here have never delivered anything like this. Now, the male, I think, at this point has been chosen not to deliver anything because the male, I can see anger and disdain there. And my belief is he wouldn't deliver this script in the way that it needs to be delivered in order to get a potential captor feeling for the mother and feeling for those siblings and wanting to do a deal. He wouldn't be able to deliver it in that way.

[Maureen Callahan]

This is a fighter pilot.

[Mark Bowden]

Fighter pilot?

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah.

[Mark Bowden]

Like, so he can deal with stress. And you're somebody. You're seeing somebody containing their stress here. Okay, But. But he's not. Once he. He'd go to the script, he. We don't know what he might. His aggression might take over because he was also trained to be very, very aggressive as well. He's a fighter pilot, so he's. He's trained to be aggressive in this situation also. There's a lot of barriers in there. Yes, that's because they're all squeezed together in one tiny shot. Okay. They have to squeeze. They have to squeeze up. They've got to hold these scripts. So, look, there is a lot of things in there that people who don't understand why this message needs to be delivered like this, they might go, well, that's a red flag. That doesn't look good. That doesn't. Look, this is an extraordinary situation. Here's what I'll say as well. Last thing on this, Maureen. Usually in my experience, if the FBI think or police, law enforcement think that these people are involved, they'll just let them on the media. They'll just let the media do the job of the interrogation. They'll put them in front of the media, and the media will ask questions. Tell me about this. When did you last see them? Because that puts them under a lot of stress. Yeah, a barrage of stress. They will usually leak information during this, and their body language will be off the charts. This hasn't happened here. They've been given a script because that is the best bet to try and get this person back. In the belief of the FBI at this point.

[Maureen Callahan]

Mark, what did you make of the sister, Annie? There's a moment where Savannah is saying, we believe she's alive, or we want. We know she can come back to us. The sister. These are micro expressions. The mouth, the lips tighten and curl in, and the head goes like this. What do you make of that? Could that just be she doesn't believe what Savannah believes and. Or she knows something that Savannah doesn't know?

[Mark Bowden]

It will be the job of these people at this point to hold out hope not only on behalf of the FBI, to give a hopeful message of, you know, you're alive, we want you back. We will do a deal about this. Just give us proof of life. The same time, there's the reality of being a human being. Having somebody stolen from you, you don't know where they are. You can lose hope really quickly on this. And the stress will. And I think, you know, in other videos that we've seen of this group or the individuals, there is a lot of hope around this because statistically there comes a certain point where it becomes unlikely you're getting this person back.

[Maureen Callahan]

Mark, what do you make of a couple of things? A, it was shot in Annie's house. The FBI chose to shoot it there. And we know from Ashley Banfield's impeccable reporting that the brother in law and the sister, they're looking at the brother in law as the prime suspect, the sister's husband. So they shoot it in Annie's house. As you said, it's a very tight shot. The composition has the siblings sitting practically on top of each other. Savannah's in the middle, of course. Savannah is the TV star. She knows how to communicate. She. Her body is nearly jackknifed forward to the camera while the siblings have their backs up against the wall. What struck me as incredibly notable is that as Savannah is struggling to keep her composure, not like the brother didn't even put a hand on her back or her shoulder. I can't imagine having to give some sort of public plea like that with my brother sitting next to me and me breaking down and him not moving an inch to give me just a pat of comfort of like, I'm here. What do you make of. Of that stuff?

[Mark Bowden]

Yeah, look where I training this. This group. I would probably. Knowing what might happen with that male. Yeah, I would probably want to keep him still as well.

[Maureen Callahan]

Really?

[Mark Bowden]

Yeah, I probably want to keep him still. Yeah. I don't know what that's going to do. If he puts his. If he touches the back of the. Of. Of. Of the female Sister.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Bowden]

I don't know whether she's going to lose control of it at that point.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, if that might be. Oh, that might be too much.

[Mark Bowden]

I don't know whether she's going to look round at him and give him a signal and he might just start talking.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes. Because she's not. Savannah's not looking really at either of them, only at the very end. And she's prompting Cameron, the brother, now it's your turn to say something. It's a slight look, but it's not like a deep, like eye contact.

[Mark Bowden]

Right. And we've ruined that take. This might be probably a second or third take.

[Maureen Callahan]

Great point.

[Mark Bowden]

This isn't going out.

[Maureen Callahan]

Right point. Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Bowden]

So. So. So maybe that happened in another take and they've got. Will you just stay. You just need to stay still. Just look down the camera and just be there as a member of the family. So I don't know what's happened before, you know, and as to who might be involved, you know, key suspect here. It's so difficult in this situation to judge the sister on the outside there. It's so difficult to judge her because she's under an extraordinary situation. How many times have they tried to read this out? What take is this? You know, look, I'd want to see the, the, the mail that you're talking about there, that may be a key suspect here and see them talking about it to find out what might be going on here.

[Maureen Callahan]

We. Yeah, we don't know where he is. He has not been seen since the very beginning. We're gonna. Let's show you this picture that was taken by the Daily Mail of, Of the brother and the wife. Okay, so Annie is Savannah's sister. Yeah, the bro. This is the brother. This was taken a few days after the mother, Nancy, went missing. Look, I, I'm not an expert like you, Mark, but I look at this and I think, tell me you did it without telling me you did it.

[Mark Bowden]

Right? Yes. Look, you're, you're under such scrutiny at this point and you should know it, that the, you know, that the, the, the dog is out of the pen around the media being around you, so this is going to make no difference. So why would you do.

[Maureen Callahan]

So why would you do that, cover like that? Why?

[Mark Bowden]

Okay, so are these people who've been under this kind of scrutiny before you and I certainly you. You're in the public eye more than. More than I am. You know that if you go out doing this is making no difference because they're getting a Shot of you somewhere. Okay, so is it a display that says, leave us alone at this point? This is. This is our private moment. Well, yeah. Anybody sensible would go, look, you've got no private moment.

[Maureen Callahan]

Exactly.

[Mark Bowden]

Anymore. This is. This is nothing.

[Maureen Callahan]

Stay in the house if you don't want a photograph of yourself taken.

[Mark Bowden]

Absolutely. Absolutely. So why are they meeting out in a car? Why is that happening? I mean, look, all it does for me, Maureen, as I'm sure it does for you and the viewers, is it asks a lot of questions. It. It opens a lot of questions that they're not answering at this point.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, yeah. So let's look at the. And then we're going to move on to another crime scene, which is known as American morning television related to this case. Oh, and we have the sheriff to get to this. I want to go. I want to go to the second video of Savannah Guthrie with her siblings. Now, again, this is a. The framing is similar. It is a different backdrop. So we're not quite sure where this was taken, but the tone and tenor and language is vastly different than the initial video. Here we go.

[Savannah Guthrie]

We received your message, and we understand. We beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with her. This is the only way we will have peace. This is very valuable to us, and we will pay.

[Maureen Callahan]

This is very valuable to us. Not she. We understand. Do you take any. Any information in the flipping of the brother and the sister on either side of Savannah and that she is now also holding hands with the brother, not just the sister, as in video number one.

[Mark Bowden]

Yeah. Look, this is clearly a picture of their agreement. Okay. The agreement of. Of their agreeing that they understand that they're together on an understanding of whatever message has been given to them. The camera now has height, dominance on them.

[Maureen Callahan]

Interesting mark.

[Mark Bowden]

So the viewer here is now in total control of them.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, my God. I love that insight. That never would have occurred to me.

[Mark Bowden]

Yeah. So.

[Maureen Callahan]

So the FBI is telling the captor or captors, you're in control.

[Mark Bowden]

You're in control. So this is now hostage negotiation. You're in control of this.

[Maureen Callahan]

Wow.

[Mark Bowden]

We. We all agree with you. Okay. We're begging you. So there's the word beg.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yes.

[Mark Bowden]

You have something that is valuable now. It's. It's that. It's. The. The. The reality is not using her name is a. Is a problem. Whether that. That was. That was off script because it starts to suggest that there's a worry that the mother isn't alive.

[Maureen Callahan]

It could suggest that whereas Savannah was. Was sure to use the mother's name, she said, you are God's precious daughter. Nancy.

[Mark Bowden]

Yes.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Bowden]

And so look. But that could be. She deviated from script. There's a look down. So she may have memorized somewhat. She should be pretty good at memorizing, but under stress and pressure, first thing that goes is short term memory. So she may have thought she'd memorized it. Yeah. This is very valuable to us. So they do say they will pay. So again, this is not a message to us.

[Maureen Callahan]

Right.

[Mark Bowden]

So we shouldn't look at that and go, well, why aren't you delivering this in a way that makes it acceptable to me?

[Maureen Callahan]

Right. Of course.

[Mark Bowden]

We haven't issued a ransom note, you know, ransom. We haven't done that. So it's not for us. Okay. It's for a potential captor here. And it is going through some of the things that I would expect to see in something of that nature.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay. Now we're going to go to the sheriff, who from day one, in my opinion, has been in way over his head, whose comportment, body language and actual language has been a little too casual. It's like he is asking for a child's stolen bicycle to be returned. Here he is with a message to the abductors as prompted by NBC's anchor Tom Lamas during the nightly news. Here we go. This is the very beginning of the case breaking. Here we go.

[Mark Bowden]

What would you say to someone who, if they're holding Nancy Guthrie right now, what's your message to them? It's. It's not just my message.

[Maureen Callahan]

It's the community's message.

[Mark Bowden]

It is the family's message. Just. Just call us.

[Sheriff Nanos]

Let her go.

[Mark Bowden]

Just call us. We family would tell you. There's no questions asked here.

[Maureen Callahan]

Mark.

[Mark Bowden]

Well, what is the message? Is it call us or is it let us go?

[Maureen Callahan]

What does this say? This guy's a sheriff looking for an 84 year old woman ripped from her bed. Oh, no questions asked here. I'm at your. I'm at your mercy. Like I'm showing you my soft underbelly. What kind of law enforcement is this?

[Mark Bowden]

Right. Look, this is. This is an opportunity. This is an opportunity that the press just gave to go look down the camera and make contact with a potential captor and tell them what agreement can be made that they have, what cards that they have and what the deal will be. It's a great opportunity. And he held his hands up and went, I mean, I don't know. I mean, you know, call us or let it go. Or call it. I mean, I don't know. What do you think? It's. It was an absolute missed opportunity, which makes me feel like he wasn't prepared for this. Absolutely not prepared for this. He's so anxious about it, that short term memory went and he lost his preparation and lost his script again. If this had been one of the family of the abductee. Abductee, you would have trained that person to go, look, the press are going to ask this. What's your message? I want you to look right down the camera and I want you to say this right down the camera. Really clear. Yeah, he's got none of that. So I don't know. The FBI prepared him on this. Does he think he knows what he's doing?

[Maureen Callahan]

This was before the FBI swooped in as desperately necessary. We now know. Here he is at a presser with two FBI that now the FBI has come in. This was last Thursday. Two agents are standing behind him. Look, I want you to watch them. Mark, as much as Sheriff Nanos, who I call Barney Fife. As the sheriff is asked if law enforcement. Now, this was before we got the video this week. Okay, Remember this is a week ago. The sheriff has asked, can law enforcement really not recover anything, anything off of Nancy Guthrie's home surveillance video? Isn't there anything like the top level of Google geniuses can do? Watch the sheriff, answer this question and watch the FBI agents faces in the back. And then also, does this essentially mean.

[Savannah Guthrie]

That you've cooperated with the tech companies.

[Maureen Callahan]

And you can officially say that no.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Surveillance video is available from the home?

[Mark Bowden]

We know that the, the tech company.

[Maureen Callahan]

That we sent that camera off to.

[Mark Bowden]

Yes, they've said they, they. They've run out of ways to recover any video. Yeah, so. So they start swaying from side to side in the background there. Okay, so they're concerned about what's being said here. Look, I mean, the reality is, is the sheriff here? You know, there's a lot of double shoulder shrugs during. During this. He sincerely doesn't know. He just doesn't. He just doesn't know. In his mind, he. He has sent the camera to. To an organization to see if something can be recovered, and they've run out of ways to recover any video. But he's not saying that he has sent the account details to where the account is held, and he's kind of saying there's a physical camera and we've maybe, maybe sent that. Well, you and I would know. Yes, there may be something kept on an internal chip, but if you've got an account. It's kept in the cloud, and that's owned by another organization.

[Maureen Callahan]

But the thing with the sheriff, it's not even like whether he understands the way data is stored and recovered. It's that he's like this all the time. His hands are up. He's like this. His eye. His eyes are all over the place. To me, this speaks of a disorganized mind, a guy who not only doesn't know anything, but doesn't know how to communicate effectively. I don't know anything. You know, the FBI agent who eventually took over that podium would say that information is unavailable, which to me says you may have information that you don't want to give the general public because it would compromise the investigation. That's a way of communicating. Communicating confidently, standing still, speaking directly to camera or to the reporter who asked the question. I want to move right now to Hoda Kotb over at the Today show, who has been telling American audiences how much she grieves for her best friend Savannah, her former colleague. You know, Hoda left the Today show a year ago and ever since has been having what looks like clear regret at doing so and has been clamoring to find her way back in. Well, this unthinkable tragedy befalling Savannah has opened up Savannah's chair and who's sitting in it on Monday, February 9, barely able to suppress her glee? Hoda copy, please. Watch this with me, Mark. I have watched it several times, and I'm focusing. I'm just going to tell you at the outset, I'm focusing on Hoda's hand gestures. Here we go.

[Mark Bowden]

Good.

[Maureen Callahan]

Monday morning with all eyes on Arizona.

[Mark Bowden]

Where the search for Nancy Guthrie now enters its second week. It's February 9th. This is Today.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay, so we're gonna. We're gonna see another clip. That's the intro. Okay. That's. They're setting up the table. Then we get the show open. And now we're gonna go to Hoda really inserting herself. Boy, I mean, there's nothing subtle about this, but I'm all about the nonverbal stuff as you are. Here we go.

[Mark Bowden]

And a very good morning to you. Welcome to Today on this Monday morning. Thank you so much for starting your week with us. Hoda is joining us while Savannah remains with her family in Arizona. We are grateful to have you here.

[Maureen Callahan]

You know what, Craig? We always talk about our show as a family. We are a family. I'm part of the family. I'm happy to be with you because we show up for for each other. So, yes, let's get to it, Mark. This to me, is a whole other crime scene. Talk to me.

[Mark Bowden]

So look, both of those videos tell me that she is, let's say chomping at the bit to get on with this. Let's get going. Let's get me on the air. Let me talk about this. She cannot suppress herself in the first video.

[Maureen Callahan]

She keeps trying to keep her hands down. She moves. I counted five of those gestures. She's going like this. Don't jump out of my chair. Don't jump out of my chair. With glee.

[Mark Bowden]

Yeah. She wants to get going on this. And she goes, what's interesting about this is. And this may be scripted, but she goes for the image of the family there. She picks up on the family that comes from the male presenter there. She enforces that we are a family. And so by invoking that, you. It's now very hard for you and me to go, well, hang on. Are you. What's happening here? Are you.

[Maureen Callahan]

You're a substitute? Yeah. She not only says, we're a family, she says, I am a member of this family. And at that, Craig looks down and he's kind of shuffling his papers. And I also felt that Craig putting his hand on Hoda's back was paternalistic, was patronizing. It was. It was a power move. I'm the alpha. My co host is out, and you're here at my pleasure. If I want you out, I'll kick you out.

[Mark Bowden]

Well, that's the nature of the family, isn't it? It's like we're all a family until you're out of the family. Cause it isn't a family. It's a corporation.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, they work together.

[Mark Bowden]

Yeah, it's a corporation. And when they tell you you're going, you will be going. And when they tell you to come back, you're like, come back. So it's an interesting family because you're out until they say, no, no, come back in. Because one of the family can't make it this. This week. They don't hold the chair free and go, listen, we're a family, and we're never going to put anybody in the place of our family members. So the chair will be empty until she's able to come back and say, no, no, no, just stick another one in there in this family. Just fill a space.

[Maureen Callahan]

Exactly. And by the way, as I reported for the Daily Mail on Thursday, the minute Savannah's mother went missing and she took the first flight out of New York City to Tucson on Sunday, all of those jackals began jockeying for Savannah's chair, Savannah's position at the Olympics, saying to us, to the Daily Mail, hey, you know what? Savannah's been gone a really long time. This is really, in some, in substance, unprofessional. They are jackals, Mark. They don't give a crap.

[Mark Bowden]

Here's the problem, Maureen, is because they've said the word family several times. You clearly don't understand family, okay?

[Maureen Callahan]

You be.

[Mark Bowden]

You're being very, very cynical. You don't understand family. We're a family, okay? We're a family. So, you know, you shouting about these jackals doesn't make any difference because they're family. Family.

[Maureen Callahan]

That's right. You know, I. When the whole thing with Hoda is so aggressive, because I feel like if you have to say to somebody, hey, I'm part of this family, you know, you're not. I don't have to say to my family members, hey, I'm part of this family, too. Like, I. It's just a given, right?

[Mark Bowden]

If you're having to say that, you know, you're in trouble.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, exactly.

[Mark Bowden]

You know, you have no power.

[Maureen Callahan]

Exactly, exactly. But she's trying to keep those hands down. You know, we're so excited. Savannah's mother might be dead. Oh, my God. This means career advancement for me. I want to end with the brain trust on the fourth hour of the Today show because there's another host over there who also claims to be Savannah's best friend. So much so that they attend the same church. They're devout Christians. There was a candlelight vigil at that same church the night before this live broadcast. And these two vultures are. Are talking about how moving it was and also why they couldn't bother to attend, which is, you know, it's like a 10 minute cab ride down there. Okay, here we go. I think the one that we had.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Here in New York City, I wasn't able to hear or attend, so I would love to hear. Yeah. No, it was so beautiful. At Good Shepherd Church in New York City, thousands joined online and people were there in person as well. And it is our home church. It's a church that we both have been to for a decade, since our babies were babies. And the music and the words were so comforting to so many. I heard from many that went.

[Maureen Callahan]

So what I picked up on Mark was Chanel when she says, you know, I couldn't make it. I couldn't make it.

[Mark Bowden]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

And then Jenna starts talking about a service which she has yet to tell Us. She did not attend. She's making it sound like she was there. She's got one arm here and then her other arm across her body, blocking Chanel. What do you make of it?

[Mark Bowden]

Yeah, absolutely. So these are adapters, as we call them, and they tend to. Yeah, and they tend to denote stress. So there's an adapter up here. Yeah, which again, there's stress around this. And by the way, look, if somebody rubs their nose. Yeah, they can do that because it's itchy. It's just. These are performers on tv and they're trained not to do that.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Bowden]

So it's. It's out of baseline for them. It's unconscious.

[Maureen Callahan]

Is it always a tell that somebody may be lying when they sort of do that, or is it a self soothing mechanism? What is it?

[Mark Bowden]

It can be a self soothing mechanism if it's done a number of times. But again, it needs to be out of their baseline. And this is out of their baseline.

[Maureen Callahan]

Correct.

[Mark Bowden]

They're not in control of themselves anymore. When she talks about the service of the church, she braces beforehand on the table and then barriers. So that's two adapters, which she's trained to keep like this or gesture up here.

[Maureen Callahan]

Right.

[Mark Bowden]

Not trained to brace against the table and go here. So there is some clear worry about this story. And it's interesting. She says, that's my home church. That's my home church. Well, then go home. When your family is. When your family's in trouble, visit the home.

[Maureen Callahan]

Well, you know who visited that home, Mark? Hoda.

[Mark Bowden]

Oda.

[Maureen Callahan]

Hoda visited. Okay, our last clip of Jenna. Now we're going to get a creaky voice that is meant to evoke the notion that she may be crying, but I don't see any tears. And these two seem to be making this tragedy all about themselves. My opinion? You tell me what you think. Think, Mark. Here we go.

[Savannah Guthrie]

As I was watching that with Mila, who is old enough to know what's happening, and my husband, I just had my arm around my little girl, and she kept saying, it's gonna be okay, mommy. She was comforting you in that moment. I mean, I wish she didn't have to.

[Mark Bowden]

Mark, look, it's not bad, okay? Like, there's some elements there that are pretty good in terms of the emotion. Okay. However, it's about the wrong thing. It's about the wrong thing. It's not about her friend and the feeling that she's going through or the person captured potentially in the feelings that they're going through. It's about the crack on the voice first comes on the name of the child. Yeah. And then on the image of the arm around the child having their arm around. And then the. And then the name of mummy. Okay. So it's, it's all about her as a child. As. And her relationship to her child. Which is. Which Absolutely. Could be evoking some real emotions.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay.

[Mark Bowden]

And I hear absolutely.

[Maureen Callahan]

I think that's why your assessment, the body language isn't that bad is because she's comfortable. She's a narcissist. She's comfortable talking about how this is affecting her and her obviously parentified child who should not be being exposed to that.

[Mark Bowden]

Absolutely. So the emotions have some reality to them. They're just the wrong subject to be talking about there. And then. And easily happens when somebody has a crisis. You'll often go, hey, well you know, I've had something like that crisis before. And you'll try and out crisis them.

[Maureen Callahan]

Or how does your crisis affect me?

[Mark Bowden]

Yeah. Oh, did you get a.

[Maureen Callahan]

Did you get a catastrophic diagnosis? Could that happen to me?

[Mark Bowden]

Exactly. This is when you know that you're probably not being the best friend you possibly could.

[Maureen Callahan]

One would think. One would think. But as always, Mark, you hit the effing bullseye. Thank you so much for coming on the nerve to just pull this all apart. We love having you.

[Mark Bowden]

Always a pleasure, Maureen. Always.

[Maureen Callahan]

Thank you again to Mark Bowden. You can catch mark on YouTube at Mark Bowden and also on the must subscribe YouTube channel, the behavior panel. Up next, your feedback. See you in a minute. The adage you are what you eat feels truer as we age. So if you are searching for an on the go protein snack that truly satisfies, try Mosh bars. Founded by Maria Shriver and her son Patrick Schwarzenegger, Mosh was created to spark conversation around brain health. After Maria's father battled Alzheimer's, they've partnered with top scientists to create bars made with brain supporting ingredients like ashwagandha, Lion's Mane, Collagen, Omega 3s and Cognizant, there are nine flavors including plant based options and all taste amazing. Plus Mosh donates proceeds to women's Alzheimer's research. If you want to find ways to give back to others and fuel your body and your brain, Mosh bars are the perfect choice for you. Head to moshlife.com nerve to save 20% off plus free shipping on the best sellers trial pack or the new plant based trial pack. That's either 20% off plus. Oh, sorry, that is 20% off plus free shipping on either the bestsellers trial pack or the plant based trial pack at M O S H-L-I-F E.com nerve and thank you Dimash for sponsoring this episode.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Based on a New York Times best thriller comes 56 Days starring Dove Cameron. A story about love.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, sorry. I'm Oliver.

[Savannah Guthrie]

I'm Sierra. Lies.

[Sheriff Nanos]

So do you like secrets?

[Savannah Guthrie]

No, I like reveals. Seduction. It's like they were obsessed with each other. And murder.

[Mark Bowden]

We got here.

[Maureen Callahan]

Body in a bathtub.

[Savannah Guthrie]

56 Days premieres February 18th on Prime Video.

[Maureen Callahan]

I'm gonna get you.

[Sheriff Nanos]

Not if I get you first.

[Mark Bowden]

When the flu is keeping you up at night, don't try to tough it out. Knock out your flu symptoms with NYQUIL Intense Flu. You got this. It provides powerful relief of your flu symptoms so you can sleep well through the night. Nyquil Intense Flu. The nighttime sniffling, aching, aching fever. Best sleep with a flu medicine. Use as directed. Keep out of reach of children.

[Maureen Callahan]

We are back. Before we get to your amazing emails, we would be remiss if we didn't take a moment to talk about James Van Der Beek, who died on Wednesday at age 48 after a short battle with colorectal cancer. He was most famous for his titular role as Dawson on the primetime teen series Dawson's Creek. He leaves behind six children and his wife Kimberly. Just a couple of practical notes, if anything can come from this tragic loss. The screening age for colonoscopies to screen for colon cancer has been lowered to age 45. Go get your screenings. Secondly, a close family friend recently lost a loved one and I won't be any more specific than that. The oncologist in the case said to this family, I'm old enough that I don't give a shit anymore. And I'm going to tell you what none of the doctors on this team will. We have been seeing an alarming rise in turbo cancers and the chronology matches with the COVID vaccine. Thirdly, there were credible reports. I don't know if James Van Der Beek underwent chemotherapy, radiation, surgery, any of the traditional western methods of trying to treat cancer, but there are reports that he did go pretty strongly down the homeopathic route. So did Steve Jobs. And I recently heard of someone who has been diagnosed with breast cancer and a very treatable early form of cancer that she was diagnosed with. You know, all cancers are different, even like breast cancer has many different kinds of and has declared that she's going to avoid all best medical advice and go the homeopathic route. And if that person does that, I can guarantee you they will die of cancer. So rest in peace, James Van Der Beek and our condolences to his wife and children. Now, on to these people are the subject of many of your emails. Jenna and Chanel, I think they are now like, I think they are truly reveling in the absence of Savannah Guthrie from the Today show. And if you don't believe me, go read the column I wrote for the Daily Mail, which published Wednesday night and is well, well sourced from I believe these are troublemakers. They're anonymous, but from within the walls of 30 Rock. And at the Today show, who said, oh, yeah, the minute Savannah got on a plane to go to Tucson, everyone on that show, practically almost everyone, has been jockeying for position to replace Savannah at the Olympics in Milan, to sit in Savannah's chair, to be the unofficial real co host of Today. They've even said to executives, you know, she's been gone a while now, like, this is unprofessional in some and substance. Now on Thursday afternoon, posted to the official Jenna and Chanel account, which means that that's the official NBC account and that anything I'm going to like, make a professional educated guess that any post that goes up on that account goes through layers at NBC, goes up the chain of producers, executives and lawyers before it goes onto Instagram. And here is an image again, this is on Thursday afternoon of Chanel hugging an older woman who she clearly regards as a surrogate mother with the caption and this is on the set of the Today show. Okay, I've got a provocation.

[Mark Bowden]

Find that love actually is all around.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, excuse me. It's a real. And it's got a voiceover of Hugh Grant from the film Love actually saying, I think if you just look hard enough, you will see that love is all around Chanel's caption. The caption on Chanel and Jenna, I should say rather. So we can't say that Chanel or Jenna wrote this, but I'm gonna guess they approved it because it's still up there. As of this moment, nothing beats a mom hug. Chanel shares that Adrienne Bellon Houghton's mom comforted her in the days after her husband Usha's passing. They reunited in Studio 1A today. So this went up two and a half hours after Savannah on her Instagram posted this tribute to her mother, which seems funeral. And this is video, old video of Savannah and her siblings as children with their mother, young and beautiful, picking flowers, what looks like their front yard. And that's followed by a still black and white photo of Nancy with all three of her children as very little little kids. And Savannah's caption reads, our lovely mom with a yellow heart. We will never give up on her. Thank you for your prayers and hope. Chanel and Jenna are disgusting. I'm disgusted by them, as are, I think every, every, every member of the troublemaker community. And I hope their show just takes a nosedive in the ratings. And I hope NBC is just pilloried with emails and, and calls and DMS that say how utterly vile these two jackals are. These two under talented, just complete embarrassments of human beings. Now onto your emails. Let's, let's get into some more, more pleasant air, shall we? Okay. Dear Maureen, the headline is Hoda the ghoul. Watching Hoda on your nerve at night made me sick. To see her literally beaming and soaking up the afterglow of Savannah's spotlight was truly ghoulish. While she was interviewing Savannah's pastor, words my dad used to tell me came to mind. When actions do not square with words, trust the actions. Believe what you see, people do, not what you imagine they ought to do. Troublemaker Janie Hoda at Savannah's church is a shocking example of star sucking fame fucking desperation with love and butter. Troublemaker Elizabeth, a frequent writer. This is troublemaker Joni, also a frequent writer, of course. Hoda is back. We can't be surprised thanks to all of the orbiting and soft landings she's been doing on Planet Today since she left. Just my opinion, this troublemaker writes, when the Guthrie case wasn't solved after two days, Hoda got on the phone to her agent with orders to call NBC. Joni, I think you are being very generous. The minute this story broke on Sunday morning, that's when Hoda was on the line to her agent. Trust me, okay? Those two kids she adopted, she's already forgotten their names. Just my opinion. Once the case is solved and if Savannah comes back, and again those vipers at NBC are planting in the media. If you're wondering who's planting this, it's, it's every everyone Savannah works with who is jealous of her, her salary, her prominence at the network, her assignments, and would like to see her gone. And they're saying, you know what? Savannah is never going to be able to come back. She'll never be able to come back from this. You know, Savannah did nothing wrong here. And by the way, this shows you how desperate they are because the opposite in fact is true. The ratings as Rob Shooter and I discussed a couple of weeks ago, long before this happened. So maybe three or four weeks ago, while Savannah was out recently recovering from vocal cord surgery. So she couldn't speak for like four to six weeks. She wasn't at work. The Today show ratings went up. But now that Savannah's been in the white hot spotlight because of this tragedy that has befallen her mother, Savannah now has job security for the very foreseeable future. So if she wants to come back, in fact, her agents could actually negotiate her an even higher pay package with more perks. And she has job security. And that's why you're going to see all these reports in Page Six and the trades and TMZ and elsewhere that there's no way Savannah can come back from this. There's no way she could come back and work on the Today show, let alone work as a journalist now that she's been. Not true. Not true. And by the way, there, the Dateline people have been going to execs at NBC like, how soon can we do a Dateline off Savannah? How soon is now? Too soon? Is yesterday too soon? Because we'll get historic ratings. Okay? Cesspool. Moral, ethical, philosophical, humanistic cesspool. Dear Maureen, the only reason that Today show has had a bump in ratings is because people are tuning in to hear about Nancy Guthrie. Savannah will come back roaring. I hope so, Maureen, this is from Troublemaker. Rich. I noticed all of a sudden that the Main street media or mainstream media is questioning Sheriff Nanos ability. This troublemaker thinks that that was thanks to the Nerve calling him out immediately. Again, this is what the Nerve is here to do. Okay? Hey, Maureen. This is from a mo bro welder in my 20s and I love the show and loved Ask not. How anyone can respect those men is beyond me. I think this is a man. This could be a woman. Forgive me, Troublemaker, because you have a name that could be either. I won't say it because you didn't give me permission. As a Canadian, this troublemaker writes, I love your coverage of the Duchess. The guys at the shop would tease me for blasting the Nerve in my booth until I had them come over and listen to you blast Meghan Markle. Believe me. Oh, it's a guy. Us blue collar guys couldn't be bothered with what the royal family is up to, but we sure as shit know all about that woman. No surprise. Keep writing to us, okay? As for Oprah, this is from Troublemaker. I'll just call you Troublemaker. L. Your subject line has Oprah always been an asshole, I think. Yes. Back when we all thought Oprah was humble and cool and down to earth. She went on a road trip with Gail. They went into a little diner one morning and an older couple recognized Oprah, not Gail. I guess this is before Oprah handed gal a career and fawned all over Oprah. It's so nice to meet you. Can we have your autograph? Smiles, grins, thrilled. The look of disdain that Oprah gave them. Like these peasants. Really gross. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. Maybe she was tired, hungry, had a headache, stuck on a trip with Gail. Now I wonder if perhaps Oprah is just an asshole. Okay, this made me laugh out loud. It is so cute, I can't even. The header from Troublemaker Nadia. Puss and Pooch, the search for Stedman Graham pauses while trying to gain Olympic glory. Hello again from freezing Canada. Nadia's we're going to show this full screen because she made this into art, which is just. I'm dying. It goes in the Smithsonian. Nada. Okay, My beloved sweet cat Daisy and the incomparable Teddy Van Halen are back at it again. And hey, cats love the nerve too, eh? Daisy and Teddy are in pearls. Teddy's cool. He can. He's. He's. He's into a little bit of androgyny, as most rock stars worth their salt are. They're wearing those really cool ski caps and they are making their. Oh, my God, Oprah's in the middle of them, all the way behind Nadia. I'm just noticing this now. You're a genius, Nadia. This time, though, Teddy and Daisy are taking a pause from their desperate search for Stedman Graham to compete for Team Nerve in the Olympics. In what else? Ski jumping. But look, a similar shad Doe. Oh, oh. E figure can be seen chasing them in the background. Could it be that the mistress of darkness herself is catching up with them again? Find out on the next riveting episode of Puss and Pooch. Dying. Dying. Hi, Maureen. Greetings from White Rock, British Columbia. I saw something that I have to share with you the second day or two after you add aired, rather the episode in which Jennifer Aniston's soon to be fiance, if the reports are to be believed, Jim Curtis, the celebrity celebrity. Excuse me, hypnotist, slash life slash transformational coach. So we aired his appearance on where else? The Today show, telling us all that we need to look at yellow butterflies. Or rather, we need to look for yellow butterflies when we feel distraught and it doesn't matter. Like if you live in Antarctica. You just have to, like, really be creative with where you're looking for a yellow butterfly. Like, even if you have to draw one yourself. You know what I'm saying? So this troublemaker, Laura, parked her car right next to a mural. And right at eye level, she says was a huge yellow butterfly, about 2ft high, 3ft wide. I started laughing out loud. My other observation is about our quote unquote friends who went to outer space base. I saw a little clip of their history making voyage the other day. That would be Gail, Katy Perry, Lauren Sanchez, and like scientists whose names we don't know, they're wearing high heeled boots or shoes. Have you noticed the shoes as well? Indeed I did. And you know, Laura, I don't like to brag about this, but, you know, I have been. Megan Kelly and I have been to space and neither one of us wore heels. Okay, Priorities. Okay. This is from our beloved local legend, Paul from New Zealand. New artwork attached. Sometimes Paul says we cannot wait until December to present a special Nerve Award. The Nerve Ghoul Award for 2026. Paul's incredible depiction of Hoda copy at the Today show as Ghoul of the Year. It's no contest. Right now we have a very special valentine that the Nerve has mailed out and we've sent it certified mail, so we're going to get documented receipt of its successful safe arrival. We have only one Valentine this year, and if you're thinking that Marlena won and she sent something to Bill Maher under Nerve auspices, okay? Only one man has the heart of the Nerve this year, and it is our dear, devoted departed, Stedman Graham. Now, before we sent this gift bag out, a gift bag that is emblazoned with the very apt words don't get your hopes up, available on Amazon. We photographed every item that went into this Valentine's Day gift bag. And we're going to show you each item. It is everything we think one needs when running for one's life. Contained herein an emergency LED roadside set of flares along with a small LED flashlight so as not to attract attention when making one's escape. Save the flares for once. You are about a mile away, at least. Water purification pills. Steadman is probably parched. You know, you need to drink water where you can find it. So a little bit, just dissolve these pills. You got potable water. Meghan Markle knows what that means. You know why? Because she grew up watching Jeopardy. And a very frequent category on Jeopardy is potent potables. Also included A life alert light up button. Battery included. That's key. Often they don't include batteries. Manufacturers love to make the customer pay extra. But we knew Step is not gonna have time to go to CVS and get some batteries. He's on the run. Then we've got an emergency sleeping bag. It retains 90% of body heat and it's made of non toxic material, unlike Oprah and Gail. And then we've included a very special Valentine's Day card. And again, if you're, if you're only listening to this episode, please treat yourself and go to the YouTube portion or we're going to pull this out as a separate, a separate reel and you can just watch the Steadman part. This is our Valentine's Day card. On the front of it is a googly eyed little nibble with outstretched scarecrow arms and it reads, I would give you my last chicken nugget. It is indeed a chicken nugget. And then inside I wrote to Stedman, I'd give you my last chicken nugget even if Oprah and Gail weren't starving you to death. And then just to be sure that Stedman knows that this gift is safe, okay, because we're sure he's been traumatized greatly, I stapled onto that a note with bespoke stationary from my own desk. And I'm urging Stedman again, if he's still alive, to get the heck out of there. And here's the entire gift bag in its glory on its way to a secure location. And we will tell you exactly where we sent it on Tuesday's show. Now, we may not hear from Stedman, but we always want to hear from you. Please keep your feedback coming. Email [e-mail] or, or DM me on Instagram at Maureen Callahan, writer, or at the nerve show. And remember to subscribe to the Nerves Substack. That is our weekly email. Go to thenerveshow.com and on our site you will see a prompt. Would you like to receive our substack? Put your email address in and that's it. Every Friday at 3pm Eastern. Our weekly email, full of all of our hijinks, all of our bonus content, my recommendations, interviews with troublemakers who we all know it's there for you. It'll tide you over till the mini on Saturday. Okay? Up next, psycho arsonist Ryan Reynolds. See you in a minute, troublemakers. Next time you're in the kitchen, read the ingredients list on your cereal box. Red dyes, seed oils, synthetic pesticides, fake flavors. It's poison dressed up as breakfast. That's why you should consider switching to Lovebird Cereal. The founder created Lovebird after his daughter was born, refusing to feed her the garbage that Big Food pushes. Just a handful of clean organic ingredients and they are listed right on the front. No refined sugar, no lab made flavors, no tricks. My favorite is Cacao. It's made with pure buckwheat, cassava, coconut, raw cacao, honey, coconut sugar and sea salt. That is it. Grain free, gluten free, packed with prebiotic fiber for gut health and third party tested glycophate free. Most cereals fail that test. I also love love love their granola. It's so light, it's so tasty. The packaging is gorgeous. Plus Lovebird is family owned and they donate 20% of their profits to childhood cancer research. Support them. Go to lovebirdfoods.com and try a box. You will taste the difference immediately. If you are ready to take back your breakfast, go to lovebirdfoods.com Maureen and use code Maureen for 25% off your first order. You can also find Lovebird cereals and at Walmart, Whole Foods, Sprouts and other major retailers nationwide. Lovebird Cereal Join the real food revolution and take back our country's health from Big Food box by box with VRBoCare. Help is always ready before, during and after your stay. We've planned for the plot twists so support is always available because a great trip starts with peace of mind.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Hey there. I'm Kat. I'm a college athlete. I was diagnosed with Ankylosing spondylitis which caused back pain and stiffness. Every day with Cosentyx I'm able to stay active.

[Kat]

Cosentyx Secukinumab is prescribed for adults with active psoriatic arthritis, ankylosing spondylitis or non radiographic axial spondyloarthritis. Available in both IV infusion and self injection. Don't use if allergic to Cosentix. Get checked for TB before starting. Increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur like TB or other serious bacterial, fungal or viral infections. Some were fatal. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough. Had a vaccine or plan to or if IBD symptoms develop or worsen. Serious allergic reactions and severe eczema like like skin reactions may occur. Learn more at 1-844-cosentix or cosentyx.com Move and feel better.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Ask a rheumatologist About Cosentyx.

[Maureen Callahan]

We are back. The Blake Lively Justin Baldoni saga continues. They were in a Manhattan court on Thursday. It was court court ordered mediation to see if they could settle this case before it's due to go to trial and waste taxpayer time and money because your jury will have to be empaneled over this. What was interesting about these arrivals? A like Blake and Justin were wearing very similar color palettes. Interesting. I'm not saying it was coordinated deliberately. I'm just saying, like, that's strange. Secondly, Blake showed up alone. No Ryan. I wonder if Ryan, you know, Justin showed up with his wife and he looked calm and collected and happy and Blake looked kind of stressed out. And I guess Ryan is out doing what is not in his nature, which is attempting to put out fires rather than start one. At least one that we know of or, you know, never forget. Ryan burned down his elementary school in Canada when he was a kid and got away with it and gave interviews in which he admitted to doing so and said that he hoped some poor schmuck wasn't serving time for what he did. So anyway, mediation did not work and they were in two separate rooms. So, I mean, that alone tells you it's not going to go. It's not going to go well. But you know, as discussed at the top of the show, the bulk of the media isn't really paying much attention to this anymore because Nancy Guthrie is. Is the dominant news story. But we here at the Nerve, we're nimble. We can do multiple things and hold multiple thoughts in our heads at once. And we're not going to let this go because we at the Nerve, just our opinion, think Ryan and Blake are disgusting bullies. And as per our last dramatic reading, which were the texts between Blake and her former BFF Taylor, who has since cut her loose. That would be Taylor Swift. They were attempting to drag in all their A list friends such as Matt Damon and Ben Affleck and top level studio executives to kill Justin Baldoni's career and reputation. So that's vile. My opinion, I don't like it. So in this document dump, which is so voluminous, there's so much to enjoy. And we at the Nerve would like to invite you to just settle in for a dramatic reading of text messages from Ryan Reynolds. Okay. An extremely angry Ryan Reynolds. And you don't want to get this guy angry. Now I'm going to edit them down because they are. They're overwritten. You know, Ryan likes to think of himself as kind of a genius. I Think and smarter than the average bear in Hollywood because he likes to use big words and write long sentences. First of all, these are court documents. These are text messages, one of which is 1000 words in length. Okay, that isn't. That's for email, Ryan. That's probably to be attached in a word document, you know, that's longer than, like, my average column in the Daily Mail. Those are. Those run about 900 words. This guy's writing columns. Okay, RR full messages. Now, this is from Ryan to redacted, but I believe it is to his agent, and I will tell you why in a moment. His agent is a man named Patrick Whitesell at wme, William Morris Endeavor. Patrick Whitesell has been around forever, and he is a very, very, very powerful guy. He was married to Lauren Sanchez until Lauren left him for Jeff Bezos. Okay, Ryan, the date of this text is August 9, 2024, sent at 5:12am do you think these people might be using drugs? Because I do. Just my opinion. Excuse the long text. This is a father of four, like, with a baby. You could argue maybe he's up with a baby, but I think they have help in Night Nurses. We heard in the voice memo that the nerve played from Blake Mumbly mouth, conspiratorial, seductive Blake to Justin Baldoni. I'd love you to do what I want that she. She or she only had a night nurse for four days. Whatever. Okay. Excuse the long text. Todd Black called me in a bit of a panic. It didn't go well because he's looking to brainstorm ways to define diffuse the stuff with Baldoni. Ryan, spell diffuse D I F F U S E. Ryan. That is the incorrect spelling. Maybe you would have learned better grammar had you not burned your school down because you would have been able to, like, attend class there. It's defuse D E F U S e. It's like diffusing a bomb, defusing an explosive situation. It's D E E F u S e. Diffuse. D I F F U S e is like when something is aromatic. Like, if I spray. If I spray this hairspray, it's diffuse. Idiot. I'm super frustrated. Ryan writes because this is a moment in which Blake should be celebrating. The movie has come out. She made this unbelievable win happened. She made this a win for Sony and by proxy, Wayfarer, which is Justin's company. I'm reading this is Ryan verbatim. She refused to give up on the film. She didn't sleep. I'm sorry. She stole this movie. She and Ryan. Okay. My opinion, based on the evidence submitted thus far. She missed countless moments with her kids. Well, whose choice was that? Sitting in edit rooms scrapping and frame dailies for every square inch of. Again, these people are making movies, okay? They're not saving lives. She slammed together a recipe for success despite working with ingredients she wasn't even able to choose. Isn't she a hired hand on this movie? She was hired as the leading lady. That's how it works. All this Ryan continues, while masterminding a world class marketing and promo plan. World class? We saw text among studio executives who were saying Blake was a terrorist and was stupid. Her world class marketing and promo plan included telling female would be female moviegoers to wear their florals to a movie about domestic violence. A movie about a man who beats the out of the woman he ostensibly loves. Oh, and to buy her wine. Oh, and her hair care products because nothing matters like hair that won't move when your husband is beating the out of you. She wills this into reality. Ryan writes Baldoni and these other buckets of dumb dumb juice, so immature, should be acknowledging the speculation and gossip themselves. They should be jumping in front of it in the most full throated, unqualified way. Period. Now. Period. They should be protecting B. They can and should accept the consequences of their actions. They made a big mess. Blake under no circumstances should be asked to clean up this sloppy, cliched storm. Another text from Ryan Reynolds. Day and time stamp August 12, 2024, 9:23pm where is Sony? Blake went so far and above beyond what should be asked of anyone. Well, she wasn't asked to do it. According to the evidence that we have seen thus far, Ryan and Blake conspired and colluded to bully Justin off of this project, to steal the movie, and to then get the rights to the other Colleen Hoover title or titles that Baldoni had already optioned in order. Ryan writes to land a jumbo jet on a dime as if it ends with us was a 747 jetliner and Blake Lively was Charles Sully Sullenberger landing it on the Hudson in the middle of winter, not injuring a single soul. Blake Lively is Sully and she's also Orson Wells, Akira Kurasawa, Martin Scorsese and Alfred Hitchcock. Okay, it's nothing short of incredible, Ryan writes. And unheard of. Is it? I think she deserves to feel that. I think I deserve to enjoy the work I've put in over the last three years on Deadpool and Wolverine. Okay, he goes on and on and on and on. We're not asking them, I guess, meaning Justin and his partners to detail the Dum dum horror show of a production they willfully created. Now, the thing that I believe Ryan writes that both my wife and I are missing most in this debacle is your rage. He's writing to Patrick Whitesell. I hope I've illustrated why that is. I think you have, Ryan. I think you have anything overstated your case. Now, here is our real talk about fake people. Here is the way these people talk to each other. And I'm going to read it to you. And you know, it's. You know that Ryan means the exact opposite. I have never, Ryan writes, had anything but an intense love. But n. Excuse me, an intense love and admiration for WME and the entire company. But I've also never needed clutching pearls. I've also never needed WME like I do in this moment. I am always comfortable handling my own because Ryan's a real man who knows how to burn down. But Ryan writes, this is a situation in which I need, along with Blake, a sense of solidarity and duty of care. How precious. Duty of care. Patrick Whitesell writes back. Now, this is. He's writing back on August 13th. So a day later. Oh, no, this is hours later. Ryan's timestamp is the 12th at 9:23pm Patrick's is at 12:42am so nearly 1:00am this is what these guys get paid. Money big, their commissions. They earn every penny because they got to answer questions like this. I once interviewed a guy who had been involved with. This person will remain unnamed, but he is a power broker, legendary Hollywood agent who inspires fear. And this guy told me that he wound up leaving this man who was basically like kind of his sugar daddy, I think the guy had worked as a model, so he was like, much younger. He didn't really have any money. You know, it was kind of transactional. You know, the. The older agent got like, you know, trophy arm candy. And this guy got access to this rarefied world. And he said after one too many calls that this agent would have to pick up when the phone rings at 4am and as this guy said, George Clooney's on the other line wanting to know why some minor thing went wrong with a movie or a rollout or a paparazzi photo. He didn't like that agent. Had a hop to it. Okay. They're indentured servants who have to star themselves. Okay. Patrick Whitesell writes back at 12:42am to Ryan. Ryan, comma. I completely understand all of this. Blake and you deserve the advocacy from us as your agents. I hadn't been aware of all this until you reached out to me a few weeks ago. But in just these few weeks I have learned the full picture of what Blake, you and many others have endured. I am really sorry for you, all of you. Excuse me. I am also sorry that you haven't felt the proper advocacy from us. I can assure you that going forward, and that won't be the case, we will be deploying in the morning with the town, meaning Hollywood. We won't rest, he says. The most important thing here is that we don't let any of this have a negative, a negative effect on YouTube professionally. You can't help those who won't be helped, Patrick, and that all the studios, important buyers, etc know the truth about all of it. We won't rest until that is abundantly clear. I mean, I think these two are now completely unemployable. So you know, Ryan writes back, oh no, this is an earlier text from Ryan, but I chose it to end this segment on purpose. He's been texting with Patrick over this for obviously at least two months. This is from July July 13, 2024, 2:52pm timestamp Ryan Reynolds to redacted but he says thank you pw. So it's obviously Patrick Whitesell. My opinion I al I think ultimately the guy meaning Justin Baldoni, who I think Ryan finds threatening because to depersonalize him like this needs to comprehend the stakes. He's an inexplicable. You know, again, this sounds like projection to me. I think Ryan is talking about himself here. Just my opinion. He's an inexplicably toxic mess, to say nothing of the fact he quote unquote presents as a feminist ally slash warrior when he's actually a thoroughbred predatory fraudster. Says the psycho arsonist Justin Ryan goes on, should be writing 15 page apology letters to Blake and dozens of other folks from the film. Instead, he continues to attack Blake and before long she's going to stop protecting him. Didn't they shove Justin and his family and friends in the basement at the premiere to humiliate and isolate him? Which should have been the biggest night of his professional life thus far. But Blake is the one who's been protecting him. Okay, Psycho Justin, Ryan writes, and again, we're apolitical here at the Nerve. But Ryan is who tries to be like just your friendly apolitical movie star slash cell phone provider who made his like little daughter say something about cock and balls adjacent in his movie Deadpool. Even though she begged not to, he made her do it between 50 and 500 times. This is what Ryan writes about Justin. He's a bit trumpy in the sense that he just labels everybody else the very thing he is himself. Ryan. I think you could say he's a bit Ryany, because I think that's what you're doing here. Ryan goes on this. We're going to end this thing with a banger. A banger. And then I've got just a little bit of like, before you leave this meal, I'm going to put just a, just a really beautiful little tiny, just palette cleanser down for you, okay? Ryan, I'd put Blake's reputation on trial any day of the week. Well, you got your wish because now you're going to trial, you fucking asshole. She's worked with Oliver fucking Stone and dozens of other mercurial and abusive people. So Ryan in writing is calling Oliver fucking Stone, his words, not mine, mercurial and abusive. Say it. Forget it. Write it, Regret it. In her experience, Ryan writes, and mine, nobody has ever reached the Empurian heights of vile the way Justin Baldon has. Again, I think Ryan, like Blake, uses a thesaurus. I'm a voracious reader. I love the English language. I've never come across the word imperion. His complete lack of not only remorse, Ryan writes, but self preservation is a character study. And malignant, lazy, lidded stupidity. And darkness. Talk about darkness. You know, Ryan loves name calling. Ryan loves to name call. I don't know anybody of any real character. Like I know I, I do have my invectives against these people, but I mean, this guy's supposed to be a multi million dollar producer, writer, actor. Like I, I don't get it. I don't get it. Why couldn't they just let this go and move on to the next thing? As the Sony execs said in their own communiques, that's what everybody does. This shit happens every day in Hollywood. Anyway, we will be keeping an eye on all of these documents and reading aloud from them as this progresses. I also just want to end today's show with a movie I happened to catch last weekend. It's the weather in the northeast has been arctic. Like it's literally colder in New York than it is in Antarctica right now. And so what is there to do but stay in and watch old movies, right? And Turner Classic Movies over the weekend was played playing Death Trap. And that's a movie I've always wanted to see when I Was a kid, they used to play it on a loop on hbo, but my mom would never let me watch it. Like they were weird. She was weird with like what she would. And let. Wouldn't let me consume. But this thing. Oh, my God. If this isn't as relevant today as when it was made in 1982, this is the film adaptation of the Place by the brilliant Ira Levin, who also wrote Rosemary's Baby, the Boys from Brazil. The guy was a genius. And this was based on his play. And it stars Michael Caine as kind of a washed up, once once great playwright in New York City whose latest play has opened to savage reviews. And he has retreated to his vacation home in East Hampton in the dead of winter to lick his wounds with his wife, played by Diane Cannon. And in comes his former student slash protege, a much younger, incredibly gorgeous at the height of all of his powers, Christopher Reeve. And this is like a dark comedy slash psychological thriller in which they pile murder on top of murder on top of murder on top of murder. Murder. It's so fun. And there's a couple of things about this before we get to the little bit I'm about to play. Christopher Reeve, by this point had become a major, major movie star by starring in Superman and Superman 2. And it's a very specific kind of movie stardom he achieved. But he was a Juilliard trained actor. His best friend was Robin Williams. They trained there together. Lifelong best friend. And he really wanted to show his dramatic chops. He wanted to show that he was more than like an action hero, blockbuster matinee idol. He wasn't just one dimensional. And he took this role at a time when to do such a thing was really would have. He would have been advised not to do it because he was playing gay. He and Michael Caine are the actual real couple, unbeknownst to Diane Cannon. This is. This thing was wild. I'm actually trying. I was talking to a friend of mine about this. I'm trying to find the. My real working knowledge of Death Trap came from the Mad magazine parody of it at the time. And I'm trying to find the PDF of it. But anyway, I. I was introduced to this concept by listening to one of the actors in Gone Girl talk about what Drew director David Fincher calls a thesis scene, which I had never heard of before. And in Gone Girl, the thesis scene that they had been trying to nail down, like, what is this marriage about? Like, why do these people stay together? And what is the movie trying to say about marriage? And she. She then described how they. How they nailed what the thesis scene was. And in Death Trap, this is the thesis scene. But it's. It's the thesis scene also. I would say, like that the Nerve will adopt. Because when you listen to what Christopher Reeve says here about what the culture will allow, as long as we can all either laugh at it or be entertained by it, your mind is going to get blown. Remember 82. Here we go.

[Sheriff Nanos]

Oh, Christ. What the hell do you care if the publicity gets a little sticky?

[Mark Bowden]

Come on, don't be such an old Nelly.

[Sheriff Nanos]

I mean, just look around you. Jesus Christ, you don't have to read Hustler, you know. Just read Village Voice, People magazine. Sydney, tell you something. Everything that you have ever thought of and a hell of a lot that you haven't, is in print and on the screen. I mean, babe, it is a tidal wave. All the news is fit to print and show. Sydney, nobody gives a shit who did what or who they did it to. All they want is to be in on it. I mean, you killed your wife. That's okay. Why don't you abuse your kids, poison a well, flog bats. As long as you get on television, talk about it afterwards. You know I'm right, don't you? Sydney, you ever hear somebody turning down a party where they think they can meet Nixon or Vesco or any one of those big guys that got away with it?

[Maureen Callahan]

Incredible, right? That's all I have to say about the Epstein files too, by the way. Ever hear one of those guys turning down a party invite with Nixon or any of those guys who got away with it? That does it. That does it. For our Friday edition of the Nerve. Come back please and see us tomorrow for the Mini Nerve. And by the way, there's an Easter egg in today's Nerve that goes to who and what recovering on the Mini. And it's a banger now, don't forget. Email us. Email me Maureen. Maureen, no. Maureenvilmaker media.com. oh, and also just. Just a reminder, the Mini is on YouTube only right now. The Mini lives only on YouTube. So go over there Saturday morning, 10am Eastern. It's a valentine from us to you. Okay, if you haven't already, check out our [e-mail]. be sure to subscribe. Excuse me. Plus nerve merch. Grab something for yourself or a fellow troublemaker atshopthe nerve.com. you can also listen to the Nerve every Monday, Wednesday and Friday at 9am Eastern on Megan's podcast Playlist, which you can find on Sirius XM channel 111, the Megan Kelly Channel. We will see you tomorrow, we hope right here for the Mini and then again next week right here at the Nerve where you will never guess what we're about to say next.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Hey there, I'm Kat. I'm a college athlete. I was diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis which caused back pain and stiffness. Every day with Cosentyx I'm able to stay active.

[Kat]

Cosentyx Secukinumab is prescribed for adults with active psoriatic arthritis, ankylosing spondylitis or non radiographic axial spondyloarthritis. Available in both IV infusion and self injection. Don't use if allergic to Cosentyx. Get checked for TB before starting. Increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur like TB or other serious bacterial, fungal, fungal or viral infections. Some were fatal. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough, had a vaccine or plan to or if IBD symptoms develop or worsen serious allergic reactions and severe eczema like skin reactions may occur. Learn more at 1-844-COSENTIX or cosentix.com move and feel better.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Ask a rheumatologist about Cosentyx February is.

[Maureen Callahan]

The month of being in love. We with a rich creamy sensation of my Mochi ice cream. Mymochi is premium ice cream wrapped in soft chewy dough. It's like a sweet ice cream dumpling. It comes in delicious fruit flavors like strawberry and mango and classic favorites like cookies and cream. Every box of my Mochi has six mochis so it's fun to share with the people you love most. Grab a purple box of my Mochi ice cream today and feel joyfully chill.