← The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Ryan Reynolds Reveals More Twisted Tales, Plus Mark Halperin Explains His Taylor Swift Fandom & More
01:02:22
Maureen goes for round two on Ryan Reynolds dark admissions on "Late Night" with Seth Meyers, pointing to the devil that's in the details of his personal anecdotes, while she scorches Meyers for laughing off Ryan's depravities. Then Mark Halperin, Host of "Up Next" with Mark Halperin, debuts his "inner Maureen" by giving his hot takes on Meghan Markle's poor decisions, Keith Urban and Nicole Kidman's split, and explains why he is a die-hard Taylor Swift fan. Then, Maureen and Mark share their opposing views on Apple TV's "The Morning Show" as well as discuss Michelle Obama's relatability. Olive: 100 percent independent. Credible. Transparent. Scan. Swap. Exhale. Download Olive now in the App Store & get an exclusive 7-day free trial. OneSkin: Get 15% off OneSkin with the code NERVE at https://www.oneskin.co/ #oneskinpod Honeylove: Get 20% OFF @honeylove by going to https://honeylove.com/NERVE ! #honeylovepod
Loading summary
Transcript228 lines
- [00:00]
Mark Halperin
Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. They go perfectly with music, podcasts and welcome back to the show. Even nature sounds. Oh, and the thing where someone crinkles tissue and whispers at you. Hello. Look, I'm not here to judge what you listen to. I'm here to judge you for not eating Reese's while you listen to it. Reese's. Ashley, go back to the nature. Sounds nice. Yeah, that's really nice. It's Cybersecurity awareness month and LifeLock is here with tips to help protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication, and report phishing scams. And for comprehensive identity protection, Lifelock is your best choice. LifeLock alerts you to suspicious users of your personal information and also fixes identity theft. Guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, stay safe, and stay protected. With a 30 day free trial at lifelock.com specialoffer terms apply.
- [01:12]
Maureen Callahan
Hello and welcome to the Nerve at Night. I am your host, Maureen Callahan, and I would like to be your new mistress of darkness. I'd like to push Oprah aside and take the mantle of the good witch, but I'm the mistress of darkness. So. Last week on our very first Nerve at Night, we went all in on Ryan Reynolds. All in. And like all criminal cultural, you know, it's both actually with him because this guy admitted to setting fire to his elementary school when he was a kid. Okay. He says first he set fire to a tree. First of all, that is dark, beyond dark. And secondly, it's very hard to set fire to a tree. Okay? And then he said it was like a wing of the school. And we showed the actual front page from the Vancouver sun. That school burned to the ground. Okay? Recidivism rate high. So Ryan showed up over on Seth Meyers on Friday night. Okay, and what did those two talk about? How they're just some wholesome family men. We're not talking about arson or any of the other stuff in Ryan's past. So anyway, we're taking that apart, okay? We are taking his appearance I on Seth Meyers apart. And you know, again, if these guys running these late night talk show hosts have any, they're still wondering why they're dying. It's because of this, okay? Because of this bullshit. I hope those of you who are actually watching and listening to this at night are, you know, those of you who indulge are having a nice cocktail right now because it's well deserved. Okay? And you know, then we're going to get to some troublemaker emails, of course, and some lighter stuff and feedback and we're still getting answers, by the way, to our first initial dilemma. And again, this is what the Nerve at Night is going to be here for. To sort of like blow off steam at the end of the day and let's talk about like the things and the people who are bugging us and we can brainstorm together and figure out ways to solve these problems. I mean, I think, I think everybody who watches this show is brilliant based on all the feedback we're seeing, the emails, the YouTube comments, I mean, there's not a, there's not a dud in the bunch. Okay? And then to wrap up the Nerve at Night and don't worry, we're going to go at a nice pace. We will be joined by one of our own here at MK Media. Now, I was shocked when somebody sent me this video. I hadn't seen it myself. Mark was doing an interview in which he claimed that he had an inner me. He said, I have an inner Maureen. I almost fell off my chair. And then someone in the MK Media world said, hey, did you know that Mark Halperin is a swiftie? I said, I had no effing idea and I need to talk to him about these and other like cultural anomalies that I would never like. Not that Taylor's a cultural anomaly, depending on your take, but that I never would have pegged Mark Halpern as a swiftie. And so we're going to get into it and we're going to get into other things that he and even some conspiracy theories that he subscribes to. It's mind blowing. I was like, wow, this is like a side of Mark I would never have expected to see. And I love it and I think you guys are going to love it too. So second edition Nerve at night. We are locked and loaded. Troublemakers. So let's go. Are you someone who wants the best food for yourself, your family and your kids? But you still wonder, is this safe? Food labels can be misleading. Seed oils, additives banned in Europe, and even endocrine disrupting chemicals like microplastics and heavy metals contaminate our foods. Introducing Olive. Olive is the clean living shortcut on your phone. 100% independent, credible, transparent, no brand pay to play. A simple scan on Olive looks beyond macros and marketing to flag ultra processing additives, seed oils and contaminants with a comprehensive database that you can trust. Proof, not promises. Olive recently completed the largest independent baby food study ever. 300 plus products tested for lead and arsenic in ISO accredited labs. Real tests, real results. Moms, has your baby's food been contaminated with lead? Simply scan with Olive to find out. If you're frustrated by reading confusing food labels and ingredients you can't even pronounce, try Olive. Listeners of the Nerve, get an exclusive seven day free trial. Try Olive. Scan your pantry. Make sure you're feeding your family the very best. Download Olive now in the app store. Olive. 100% independent, credible, transparent. Scan, Swap. Exhale. Ryan Reynolds within a day or two of our takedown. Had he seen it by the time he did this appearance on Seth, I have no idea. We're not sure whether he taped on Thursday night or Friday night. If he taped on Friday night, chances are he saw it. Because trust me when I tell you that celebrities are so Most of them 99.9. They see everything about themselves, good or bad. They want to see it. They're narcissistic. You know, they want to see it. And so if he had seen it, I would have two theories about that. One is he was gonna double down. Just gonna double down. My second theory, less likely, in my opinion, had he seen it, he went on to do some damage control. Because we are out promoting a documentary we made about the late, great John Candy. And the theme of that documentary is how kind John Candy was. And, you know, it's like the Ellen DeGeneres phenomenon. It's like Rosie O' Donnell when she was the queen of nice on daytime tv. Both of them were holy raging terrors backstage. So it's always the people who are like, peddling kindness, you know, Meghan Markle, a bullying file allegedly an inch thick. I've heard things directly like, she's a bully, man. Allegedly, reportedly. But, you know, we're peddling be kind and all this. Anyway, so Ryan goes on Seth, and Ryan is cosplaying, as per usual, not just an actual human being with feelings and empathy. Because I think Ryan, based on the things he has confessed to, and these are just the things we know about, I think Ryan is a psycho arsonist, and I think he is a psychopath. So he goes on to Seth and we begin with Ryan's anecdote. And again, because I also believe Ryan is a liar. I don't even know that I believe this anecdote. But listen, it's all in the details. Ryan tells Seth about being a young guy in Hollywood just trying to make his way and meeting Johnny Carson and Johnny Cash within the same week.
- [08:36]
Seth Meyers
I never met Carson. But you crossed paths. I crossed paths, no joke. In an elevator in one week with Johnny Carson. And Johnny Cash. Wow. So this is a ways back. You were probably pretty fresh faced at the time. I was but a cheek of tan and lock of gold. Just a little baby creepy. I don't know. They both passed shortly. Shortly after. I may have caused. Yeah, I don't.
- [09:00]
Maureen Callahan
Did I cause it? Did I cause it? I don't know. Now we are going to do the segment on the. On the long standing conspiracy theory and we're doing it in fun. But you know, there is a long standing conspiracy theory that Garth Brooks is a serial killer. And you know, more than one of you emailed me and said the, the behaviors, the criminal behaviors that Ryan has confess to. You know, that's how serial killers start out with arson. And when I say these people tell you who they are all the time and to believe them, I mean, we've got exhibits for days with this little cute, otherwise cutesy segment with Seth Meyers nice guy of late night, you know, only rivals Jimmy Fallon in congeniality. Let's look at Ryan. Continue.
- [09:49]
Seth Meyers
I call you the reaper of the elevator.
- [09:51]
Mark Halperin
Right? That's what they do.
- [09:52]
Seth Meyers
This is exactly what they do. It was in Beverly Hills, that little doctor area where everyone, everyone goes for the. So yeah, who knows?
- [09:58]
Maureen Callahan
Did you say the reaper of the elevator? And Ryan laughs and he's like, yes, yes, yes, this is the real Ryan. Like Ryan is into death and destruction. Anybody who would burn an elementary school to the ground, the only elementary school in that town to the ground, loves death and destruction. My opinion. Now let's listen to Ryan joke. Oh, by the way, before Ryan slips into this little anecdote that he thinks is really cute, we have this whole long discussion, which I'm sparing you from, about how Ryan received the order of Canada. You know, I mean, does nobody do their research? I mean, I know like working in like government can often be dull and drab, but like you're gonna award somebody something at this level. Do your freaking homework. Team Nerve found this stuff in less than a day. Now Ryan's gonna joke, joke about the traits of his young son, his only son. Let's listen to this.
- [11:04]
Seth Meyers
Last time you were here, you had just started your family. I was just about to. The one difference. You have four. And you went girl, girl, girl, boy. We went boy, boy, girl. And I will say, I think that's less jarring than what just happened to you. It is when you start with girls and then have a boy. I can't even imagine. I don't like. We live in a very like, there's Nothing violent in our home. There's nothing.
- [11:30]
Maureen Callahan
Sure.
- [11:31]
Seth Meyers
He came out with three things on his mind. It was violence, breasts and engines. Yeah, and I don't. I really don't understand where this comes from.
- [11:41]
Maureen Callahan
He doesn't understand where this comes from. Says the guy who burned his elementary school to the ground by setting fire to it. Where could this come from? I have no effing idea. Are you kidding me? First of all, the beginning of that conversation strikes me as very elitist because Seth says, you know, you went girl, girl, girl, boy, and we went boy, boy, girl. And it makes it sound like they went to a fertility doctor and chose the gender of their children. Because Seth doesn't say we wound up with or the way it worked out for us. He says, we went and you went. And, you know, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but again, it's like they don't understand why we don't get them anymore and we don't care to get them because they don't get us. They're so out of touch. And then Ryan's like, yeah, this kid popped out and he's obsessed with violence and breasts. I have no idea. Again, says the guy who in the official commentary. Excuse me, again, I'm so worked up. Official commentary to Deadpool v Wolverine with the director, Shawn Levy. They sit there and they talk about how Ryan bullied his then 7 year old daughter Inez, who didn't want to do it, who said, dad, I don't want to do this into saying the line when I want your opinion, I'll take Wolverine's dick out of your mouth. And then they laugh about how they made her say it between 70 and 500 times. And as stated before, there is a huge gulf between 70 and 500. And I'm gonna guess it was closer to 500. But Ryan wants us to believe he's running like a satellite of Disney World over at his and Blake's multimillion dollar Tribeca loft, where they otherwise, you know, invite directors up to get, get, get humiliated and railed at by the likes of Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively while Taylor Swift watches, allegedly reportedly. Where did this come from? I have no freaking idea. Okay, now this gets really dark. Again, Ryan is telling us who he is, and Seth is trying to make it all, like, fun and games. Ryan talks about, and you gotta listen in between the sentences here, he's eight years old. He's eight years old and he says, oh, my poor mother. Oh, my poor mother. He's putting holes in walls. He's Punching holes in walls. Here we go.
- [14:07]
Seth Meyers
Do the girls, like, collectively feel like it's an HR issue that you've added a boy to the family? I do, yeah. I don't. I am, like, in direct competition with this young man. Yeah, no, he's. He's.
- [14:19]
Maureen Callahan
It's a little like.
- [14:20]
Seth Meyers
Like, I was. I'm the youngest of four boys, and, boy, do I feel for my mom, you know? Like, I really do.
- [14:25]
Maureen Callahan
Like, yeah, she's a psychopath on her.
- [14:27]
Seth Meyers
Hands, but my mom really, like, I mean, we. When I was 8. I'm not making this up. I knew how to patch drywall. That right there says a lot. Yeah, Like, I knew how to get literally a hole in the wall. I could repair that in less than six minutes before my dad got home perfectly.
- [14:44]
Maureen Callahan
Like, so funny. Seth.
- [14:45]
Seth Meyers
Sand and paint. We're good. Wow.
- [14:47]
Mark Halperin
Yeah.
- [14:48]
Seth Meyers
That means it must have been.
- [14:49]
Maureen Callahan
The audience isn't really laughing for you.
- [14:50]
Seth Meyers
To be so good at it.
- [14:51]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, so Seth picks it up now. Oh, that had to happen so many times for you to be so good at it. Remember when we were talking about the drama teacher and how the drama teacher kicked Seth. Sorry, Ryan out because Ryan was too much to deal with? Just the guy could not get this kid under control. And Ryan, at the time had been dropped at his grandparents because his parents were off on vacation without him, which tells you something. Normally, parents like taking vacations with their kids. Middle class parents. That's what they do. You get one vacation, you know. No. They dumped Ryan over at the grandparents. My interpretation. And. And when this drama teacher kicked Ryan out, the grandparents went to the drama teacher and begged, Begged the drama teacher to take him back. And the impression the drama teacher got was that the grandparents couldn't handle him either. Now Ryan's gonna talk about this documentary that he so lovingly, determinedly put together about John Candy and what the true mark of real moral character is.
- [15:55]
Seth Meyers
Well, John was a guy that was. He was a good person when nobody was watching. And like that. I mean, that speaks volumes to someone's character.
- [16:03]
Maureen Callahan
That's true. I think Ryan pretends to be a good person as best he can. In our first nerve at night, we showed that clip where he talks about being able to fake empathy, which I find very disturbing, because empathy is something that otherwise healthy, rational, non psychopathic humans innately possess. And we don't have to fake it. We can bring it to the fore. If you're an actor, you can bring it to the fore. You tap into your empathy. You don't talk about faking empathy. Now, also in that clip, Ryan said he finds himself competing with this young man. I believe their son is maybe three. That's really dark because Ryan's talking about, like, clearly this little boy is taking attention away from Ryan in the house and most likely with Blake because, you know, these people have an army of nannies. Anyway, if this marriage survives the Baldoni lawsuit, I'll be shocked. Okay, I'll be. And they'll be asking, you know, we'll get to it when it happens. Don't worry. Anyway, our final clip of ryan on the 16 minute long segment on Seth. That is a long segment segment. You know, he's taking up the bulk of the show. Ryan is talking about being so surprised, nay shocked and somewhat amused that one of his young daughters speaks in vulgarities and says vulgar things.
- [17:32]
Seth Meyers
Planes, trains and automobiles. At one point I had memorized. I mean, even at home, my six year old, I'm not proud of this, but my six year old, like he is, he loves funny. But I'll go one of the lines from it where I'll say, welcome to Marathon, how may I help you? And then Steve Martin, basically, the whole reason the movie's rated R is for this one speech. He just goes, you can start by wiping that smile off your rosy cheeks and you can give me a automobile. And then he just goes on and on and on with the F bombs. And my daughter, I have like three lines in. I'm like.
- [18:07]
Maureen Callahan
Let'S not let.
- [18:08]
Seth Meyers
Mommy's going to walk in any second now. Let's just stop.
- [18:12]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, let's stop. Because Mommy's going to walk in. Because Mommy's such a paragon of morality. You know, I don't, I, I buy that his daughter does that and I buy that she does that because I think Ryan teaches it and encourages it because as discussed with his daughter Inez, he has a kink. He loves hearing his little girls say vulgar things. And that is beyond creepy. It's beyond effing creepy. But there sits Seth Meyers laughing about it and laughing with Ryan about it. And in doing so, Seth, you're promoting that. You're promoting that really dark behavior. And then at the end of it, Ryan says he tries to stop his daughter. If you believe him, because I don't. Because Mommy's coming back and he doesn't want Mommy to hear it. Which runs very counter to his earlier assertion that being a good person is really, really what makes somebody good is when they do good things and say good things when nobody's looking. And that Says to me that Ryan only tries to look good when other people are watching. Remember his Twitter bio as quoted by TJ Miller, I only show the parts of me that test well. So we hope Ryan keeps making the rounds. That's a long way to say Ryan, keep talking dark shit. Dark effing shit. I can't believe this. I cannot believe this. Seth, did you even see that? Somebody on your show saw that segment of the Nerve. There's no doubt. We know. I'd be shocked. I would be shocked. Anyway, give him a gig hosting snl. Why not? Next up, next up at the Nerve at night, we have your feedback. Back in a minute. Are you skeptical of skincare claims? Well, one skin might surprise you. It surprised me. What I love most is how simple it is to use. There's no complicated routine, just results. I've used the facial lotion. First of all, it's great on your skin because you know the weather's getting colder, your skin gets drier and you put this on at night. You can put it on over whatever serums you use. It's light, it feels clean and pure. It's fast absorbing. It's just and it comes in really beautiful packaging. It's just really, really good stuff. And then you've got this added benefit of seeing skin's resilience. Your skin might really bounce back faster from dryness and irritation. Especially with the seasonal shift. When you use stuff like one skin that is clean and light, that is typically the result. The ease of use here is a huge win. Just cleanse, pat dry, apply it twice daily, morning and night. That is it. Oneskin is developed by a team of female PhDs. It uses science backed formulas that support skin health at the cellular level. This season, don't just moisturize. Support your skin at the cellular level with one skin. For a limited time you can try one skin with 15% off using code the nerve at OneSkin co. That's 15% off. OneSkin co with code Nerve. After you purchase, they're going to ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them that the Nerve sent you. Try one skin today. Hey guys, have you heard of Gold Belly? It's this amazing site where they ship the most iconic famous foods from restaurants across the country, anywhere nationwide. I've never found a more perfect gift than food. Gold Belly ship Chicago deep dish pizza, New York bagels, Maine lobster rolls and even Ina Garden's fam cakes. So if you're looking for a gift for the food lover in your life, head to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with promo code GIFT. That's goldbelly.com promo code GIFT. Welcome back to the Nerve at Night. Now onto troublemaker emails. This from troublemaker. Can I say your name? I'm. No, I'm not gonna say your name. Now this loops back to our troublemaker dilemma from our first Nerve at Night in which the troublemaker had invited her friend. Her they were pseudonyms, Sabrina and I think the husband was like Harold. That might be a wink to Prince Harry to a big party she's planning and she's like going all out with like party favors and getting things engraved. And her friend wasn't even the one to reply to the text. It was the husband. And he was like, yeah, we'll be there if nothing else comes up. She was like, what the fuck is. Am I crazy for thinking this is. No, you're not. Anyway, this troublemaker who works in the mental health space says, I just listened to the Nerve at Night and the oh no, sorry. She listened to Friday's Nerve and then we had a follow up suggestion from a troublemaker about RSVP stragglers and how to handle them. This troublemaker here says that she is having a launch reception to celebrate the release of my first book. Congratulations. That is a huge accomplishment. It's a huge deal. A friend is graciously opening her home for this and 18 people have not yet RSV. What is wrong with people? Are we still in this Covid hangover? Long tail of like not RSVPing to stuff RSVP when you get an invite. Ugh. I put my own twist on your troublemaker's suggestion and sent the following hello. I hope you can make it to the book launch reception. This is her invite. I'd like to give an accurate guest number to my friend who is graciously opening her home. If you are unable to RSVP by the end of the day on Monday, October 13, I will supply your regret and complete the guest list without you. I know it is a busy time for all. Very elegant, very much a way of maintaining control. Chef's Kiss troublemaker who follows up with you and your troublemakers are the best. This is really the best community going the morning show. Another troublemaker. The Joe Rogan Dave Portnoy mashup of the Bro Podcaster is not a dig. I disagree. I think that's the show's digging at who they think are scourges on the culture. But this troublemaker says that Bro Podcaster is Better than a hypnotist who writes a book with QR codes. Jennifer Aniston's real life boyfriend. I have the book. This person knows what's up. This person goes on to say, I can barely understand anything Jen is saying. And I agree. The interventions that Jennifer Aniston has had make it sound like she is drunk. I'm not saying she's drunk when she's doing these scenes. I think she's sober as a judge, but she sounds like she's drunk. She cannot articulate properly. And if you are an actress by profession and you're asking us to put money in your pockets, that's a problem. Speaking of both Tim and I, Tim, the celebrity makeup artist wanting to love this show. I am with you. The behind the scenes, the show within a show is a great genre. My favorite of all time is the Larry Sanders show. This troublemaker absolutely loved Murphy Brown. Broadcast News. Anyone? Another favorite? I still crack up remembering Holly Hunters. Hang up the phone or just and just cry. Shtick. Love it. Dear Maureen, I loved your analysis of the scene from Robert Redford's Ordinary People. She loves the film discussions. In this age of drowning and content, we are thirsty for intelligent analysis. Perhaps that's what you find so disappointing about the morning show. It is subpar. Patty Chayefsky, perhaps you can show and analyze a clip. Clip from network. Listen again, I'm thinking about movie club. You know, it's. I think I, if, if what I want comes to fruition, it's going to be great. Okay. This from another troublemaker subject, Megan canning food incorrectly. You may have seen this go viral on social media. This troublemaker reports in. I saw something the other day that sparked my interest because I am an avid canner of food to preserve and have control over what I eat. So apparently Megan was showing people because she lives to show people how to elevate. Don't we all just want to be like her? She's such a winner. So apparently Megan was showing people how to can food and was holding the tongs upside down the wrong way as she was trying to retrieve the jars out of the canister. Would you please take Megan to the wood chipper again? Or perhaps she can just live there. Troublemaker. Here's the thing. When we take them to the wood chipper, they're chipped out like they're, they're like they're feed for the farm animals. So we gotta keep this one going. She's in a high security wing of the woodshed. Okay, think of it that way. She's in solitary. Dear Maureen, I noticed Louis CK while he was being interviewed by Bill Maher. His face turned a bright red when he was not buying what he himself was saying. That's his tick. I agree. Hi Maureen. Love these guys. 60 something heterosexual male from Lancashire, England. An aspiring troublemaker here. I think you are already there my friend. This is troublemaker Merrick. Cheryl Hines got progressively more beautiful during the curb your enthusiasm years. But wtf has she done to herself? Her, her face would frighten a police horse. Her jaw is like a burglar's tool bag. Just my opinion. And hey, I normally wouldn't read an email that really goes in on somebody's looks. But as I said, Cheryl Hines, the outside is beginning to match the inside. This was a woman who tormented and already coming apart Mary Richardson Kennedy while she was running around in public and at public events with famous people and with Mary's own children with her husband Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Their divorce hadn't been finalized and Cheryl was sticking it to Mary and so sorry Cheryl. This is what happens. Karma always wins. You bitch. Okay, our final, final email for today's edition or this evening's edition rather of the nerve at night. Subject Ryan Reynolds has rat eyes. Imagine being an actress doing a love scene with him, moving in for the kiss when you realize he resembles a rodent. He does resemble a rodent. And by the way, the real thing that bothered me about that Seth Meyers appearance and what bothers me about Ryan in general, underneath that nice guy veneer which you can tell takes a ton of effort to maintain, that is a mask that takes a lot of effort to keep on throughout the day as we move about through the world or any manner of talk shows or movie sets. There right at the surface with Ryan Reynolds, just my opinion is barely suppressed rage. And there is a lot of it. There is a lot of it. And it's in the dead dark eyes that is the giveaway. He is a terrifying dude, I think, I think, in my opinion. Oh good question troublemaker. Has he ever had a leading hot male character role? I don't think since he was. I don't think he was ever hot. I think it was sort of, he was like the guy next door. I think he was meant to be like the affable like guy next door, never like the smoldering leading man. Cause he can't pull it off. He can't. I also think he hates women. That's a big part of the reason, you know what I'm saying? You know, you Gotta wonder, like, has Hugh Jackman been seen in his vicinity lately? Because they were like this for a very long time, in my opinion. I think Ryan tried to destroy Justin Baldoni because Justin is everything Ryan is not. And he's hot. Agreed. Justin Baldoni is empirically attractive. Okay. And like you could say Ryan, he's not empirically attractive. He tries, he tries really hard. Justin, he's hotter. You know, this troublemaker also says, I think both Ryan and Blake were attracted to Justin. That tracks to me. It makes sense to me. Envy one of the seven deadly sins. Love. Love your show. Thank you, Troublemaker. My favorite guest is psychologist Sam Vacnin who will be back on the Nerve very shortly. And we cannot wait. That's it again. Keep them coming, keep em coming. And next up, Mark Halperin is going to join us to talk about all things Taylor Swift, her recent engagement and what he thinks not just of Meghan and Harry, but of Princess Diana's death. Fascinating conversation. Fascinating conversation. First, your gentle reminder where you can reach me. Email me@maureenevilmakehremedia.com or DM me@instagram at Maureen callahanriter or at the Nerve show. And remember, the nerves substack is on the way. We will see you in a minute. Last month I told you about honeylove, an independent female founded brand and their products are designed by women who actually wear them. Honeylove bras are supportive and wire free thanks to bonding technology that lifts without underwire. They recently launched their new cloud embrace bra which sold out in days. Of course it did. It's a modern wireless T shirt bra with sturdy lightly padded foam cups and it feels like a cloud against your skin. This is a wireless bra for people who love the underwire effect but not the pain of underwire. And this, this style is bound to sell out again. So do not wait to try it. I love this about Honey Love their products, the bras. They are soft, they are supple, they give you clean lines and they are comfortable. You forget that you're wearing them. So treat yourself to the most advanced bras and shapewear on the market. Save 20% off Honey Love at honeylove.com use our exclusive link to get 20% off honeylove.com nerve and find your perfect fit. After you make your purchase, they're going to ask you, where did you hear about us? And please say, I'm a troublemaker and the Nerve sent me. Experience the new standard in bras and shapewear with Honeylove.
- [33:55]
Mark Halperin
It's cybersecurity awareness month. And LifeLock is here with tips to help protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication and report phishing scams. And for comprehensive identity protection, Lifelock is your best choice. LifeLock alerts you to suspicious uses of your personal information and also fixes identity theft, guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, stay safe and stay protected with a 30 day free trial@lifelock.com Specialoffer terms apply.
- [34:28]
Maureen Callahan
Joining us now debut appearance at the Nerve is one Mark Halperin. And he's going to be talking about things I think that will come as a surprise to most, if not all of you. Now as you probably know, Mark is a part of the MK Media family and his podcast Next up with Mark Halperin is some of the smartest, most incisive, well sourced political reporting, bar none. You can check him out on YouTube, subscribe over if on his channel if you haven't yet. And wherever you get your podcasts, he's got new episodes dropping every Tuesday and Thursday. Mark welcome to the Nerve.
- [35:11]
Mark Halperin
Maureen, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little nervous, but I'm happy to be here.
- [35:16]
Maureen Callahan
Well, I should hope so because I heard this and I wouldn't have heard it if somebody on the inside hadn't pushed it over to me and texted me your clip proclaiming that you had an inner me, that you had an inner Maureen in you.
- [35:33]
Mark Halperin
I like to think so.
- [35:34]
Maureen Callahan
With your love of pop culture. And then I got word, which this was really, I loved this, that you are unironically, full heartedly, you are a swiftie.
- [35:47]
Mark Halperin
I am. And it's just like I said, I understand people who say they aren't foodies. I don't know how anyone could not be a swiftie. She's a genius and she's a cultural icon for our time. So if it's an accusation, I say guilty as charged and proudly so.
- [36:04]
Maureen Callahan
Hey, I'm not accusing you of anything. We're friendly here. We welcome all. You know, I am on the other side. I am a shark to your jet. Yeah, but talk to me a little bit about your origin story and how you came to discover Taylor and come to love her.
- [36:21]
Mark Halperin
You know, I didn't really have a huge awareness of her for the first few albums and then really? Yeah, I mean I knew who she was, but I didn't really focus on just how big it deal she was. And then I forget what year was 60 minutes. Leslie Stahl, I think, did a piece about her, which I watched. I don't watch 60 Minutes much, but I did watch that and I was, I was. That piece did a good job of capturing just how big her falling was, particularly amongst young, you know, teenage girls. And I think she's an extraordinary songwriter. Now we'll get to the new album and my thoughts on that, but I think she's an extraordinary songwriter and I just started listening more and more to her music and following her. And part of my interest is I like the lyrics, I like the hit tunes. I'm so fascinated by her business model. I think it's incredibly compelling. And then I went to Toronto to see the fifth to last show of the ERAS tour and that was it. Hook, line, sinker. After that, that, that show, that, that, that tour really is one of the great epic events of the century. I think.
- [37:24]
Maureen Callahan
What, what about the ERAS tour compelled you to go. I'm assuming that's the first time you saw her live?
- [37:31]
Mark Halperin
It was first and only. All my son's friends, moms went to Europe to see it and they all came back and they said, you can't miss it. Like, don't make the mistake of missing out on something unique. Yeah, I've seen the Rolling Stones, I've seen Bruce Springsteen, I've seen lots of big acts. This was more elaborately and cleverly produced and more of a participatory event than any concert I've been to. And the spirit of community was really powerful. And then again, I just think her music and her lyrics are fantastic. So the songs themselves were great, but the stagecraft of it was spectacular.
- [38:13]
Maureen Callahan
Two questions. Did you feel. Who did you go to the ERAS tour with? And did you feel at all out of place being not what one would.
- [38:23]
Mark Halperin
Call her Target demo, Wife and son. And no, because there were plenty of people there. Not in the Target demo really. It was Toronto, Canada, you know.
- [38:31]
Maureen Callahan
Is that why you went to Toronto? No, it was just undercover of Canadian, you know, just.
- [38:36]
Mark Halperin
By the time we aspired to go, the tour had already finished in America. It was in either Europe or Latin America and then it finished in Canada. I don't know why, but the last, I think six shows were in Canada, maybe seven.
- [38:50]
Maureen Callahan
Do you own any friendship bracelets?
- [38:52]
Mark Halperin
I don't, but someone tried to give me one at the concert and I told them they'd be better served handing it to someone else.
- [38:58]
Maureen Callahan
Mark, it doesn't seem very like in the spirit.
- [39:01]
Mark Halperin
No, no, no, I didn't say gruffly. I just was like, you know, I'm not going to wear it. Give it to somebody who will? But I, I enjoyed, I enjoyed, I enjoyed the culture of it. And, you know. Did you go to the tour?
- [39:12]
Maureen Callahan
No, I didn't.
- [39:12]
Mark Halperin
So they gave you, they gave you like a light up bracelet that, you know, had like AI in it, so, you know, they could create patterns in the audience based on where you were sitting.
- [39:23]
Maureen Callahan
That's really cool.
- [39:23]
Mark Halperin
And, and I have those, I consider those to be my equivalent of my friendship bracelet.
- [39:28]
Maureen Callahan
Okay. I just want to say I, I, I, that's really, that's that's guts. That's guts to decline a friendship bracelet.
- [39:37]
Mark Halperin
I did it nicely and I, and I did it for the right reason. I was like, give it to some little girl who will take it home and hang it on her window and her mirror and think it's like the greatest thing ever.
- [39:45]
Maureen Callahan
I understand. Now we need to move on to the single. This. I don't know if this is the new single, but it's the only song anybody's talking about off this new album, which she, she did not do with Jack Antonoff, who has been her producer slash collaborator for at least the past few. And she went back to Max Martin, the hit factory that is Max Martin. Now there is criticism, and I hear this in the song that she has ripped off the Jackson 5. It's more than a sort of influence. But we're talking about the song Wood, which is an ode to Travis Kelce's member. We're gonna take a quick look at her talking about the song's meaning on Jimmy Fallon. No. So I brought this into the studio and I was like, I wanna do sort of like a, I wanna like do a throwback kind of timeless sounding song. And I have this idea about like, I got a knock on wood and we would knock on wood and it would be all these superstitions. And it really started out in a very innocent place. So what do you make of this? This is a real departure for Taylor. She's never been this frankly sexual on a song before.
- [40:59]
Mark Halperin
Yeah, well, she's a grown up. Look, I dispute the premise in the sense that if you go look at some of the videos, even back to the earliest videos, there's, there's imagery in there that's sexual. She's not, she's not avoided it completely. But this is a different kind of relationship for her. Right. Her previous boyfriends were like skinny, brooding artists, maybe sometimes even a little bit Fay, and now she's dating an NFL football player. So I think, I think it, it does it. You know, they seem to drink a lot Together.
- [41:30]
Maureen Callahan
They do, yeah. Do. There's a lot of talk about, you know, the level of possible partying that's going on there, which I find interesting.
- [41:38]
Mark Halperin
Yeah.
- [41:39]
Maureen Callahan
I wonder if. Do you think Taylor and Travis should get a cocaine clause a la Keith and Nicole?
- [41:44]
Mark Halperin
I mean, I think it's the thing to do these days. Right. The cocaine clause can make one of the two rich, but I don't know if they necessarily. I am interested in whether they're getting a prenup. I think that's like a incredibly compelling question, particularly for Travis.
- [41:58]
Maureen Callahan
How so for Travis and not for Taylor?
- [41:59]
Mark Halperin
Well, no, I mean, Travis has got, has got more to gain from a prenup, but I don't know if it's considered like, wimpy to be an NFL player and think you want a prenup.
- [42:08]
Maureen Callahan
Wait, you think Travis has more to gain than Taylor from getting a prenup?
- [42:11]
Mark Halperin
Wasn't she way, way, way richer than he is?
- [42:13]
Maureen Callahan
Well, that's what I mean. I think she would gain more from having a prenup. Well, because she's worth so much more.
- [42:18]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. I mean, in that sense, it sort of depends on what it says. Right. I, I, she, she would want a protective one. If I, if I, if I were him, I might want one just for the, for the symbolism of it and to have some minimum guarantee.
- [42:31]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, I think there's no way this woman's getting married without a prenup.
- [42:34]
Mark Halperin
Yeah, well, presumably. But again, it's going to pend to what it says. Right. It could be a very generous prenup. It could be like $1 billion.
- [42:41]
Maureen Callahan
I, God, what. I would, I would kill to see that prenup. That prenup is going to be like 5 inches thick with clauses and sub clauses and blah, blah, blah. I want it. Before we move on from Taylor, I want to take a quick look at her on Graham Norton show this week. I love Graham Norton. And, you know, his thing is he has like four or five celebrities on the couch at once, which is interesting for a star of Taylor's stature. Normally, she is, she would not participate in such a thing.
- [43:08]
Mark Halperin
Totally agree.
- [43:09]
Maureen Callahan
Right, so here she is on Graham Norton, and she's seated next to Cillian Murphy, who I love and who deservedly won the Oscar for Oppenheimer. And Graham is asking her about the engagement ring. And just keep your eye on Killian's expressions here because Killian, I think, is dying on the inside, but he's doing a lot to play ball. Let's take a look.
- [43:31]
Seth Meyers
And there's a Lot to congratulate Taylor Swift about.
- [43:34]
Mark Halperin
But the one that I feel I ought to graduate is the new bit of finger jewelry.
- [43:38]
Maureen Callahan
The hardware upgrade.
- [43:39]
Mark Halperin
Yes. Check it out.
- [43:44]
Maureen Callahan
Gillian's, like, killing me now. So we're looking, and that's pretty much that. So what do you make of that, Mark?
- [43:53]
Mark Halperin
I have two. I have two reactions first. Well, three, including reaction to your direct question, which is he. It was just a classic look. I feel bad for people listening on the podcast because you got to go to YouTube and see, because it was. It was a look that would be muse and kill at the same time. Two, I love that show. He's a brilliant interviewer.
- [44:11]
Maureen Callahan
He is.
- [44:12]
Mark Halperin
And. And. And the. I don't know if it's him or the bookers, but they just put people on the couch. It's so interesting. And. And the fact is, you said that she agreed to do it. The other thing I thought of when I saw that was the Wall Street Journal reported that Donald Trump is obsessed with telling people that he cut his finger on Pam Bondi's wedding ring. I don't know what he was doing with Pam Bondi's wedding ring, but at some point, the ring itself produced an injury. And that's what I. That's what I think of now when I see that. That. That thing's like a lethal weapon.
- [44:38]
Maureen Callahan
I. First of all, I agree with you on Graham Norton, and I think obviously his bookers are geniuses, but Graham is so fast. He is so witty. It's like being invited or a fly on the wall to some of the most interesting dinner parties you could ever hope to be at. Agreed. And, yeah, you know, I'm not a fan of the ring, though. I'm not. I think it looks. I think it looks very. It's like an attempt to look vintage and kind of cool, maybe even a little bit steampunk, but it just doesn't work for me. I don't know. And then she said, sorry, I don't want to cut you off.
- [45:13]
Mark Halperin
No, I'll weigh in on the ring. I'll weigh in on the ring. I agree with you. It's basically nothing. It does nothing for me. It's not anything evocative or exciting. It just is.
- [45:23]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah. You know what it is? It's big.
- [45:25]
Mark Halperin
Yeah, it's big. And that's why I say it's dangerous. To me, it's mostly a weapon.
- [45:30]
Maureen Callahan
I think the cooler swerve would have been something that was sentimental, a family heirloom, sort of maybe repurposed in that way. Something that Felt a little bit more modest. We know you're a billionaire. We know your husband to be is very wealthy. There's no need to. To really display it in this sort of gargantuan way. Now, before I move on to a couple of other offenders in the culture, we're going to be talking about the morning show from now on. We just did it last week for the first time. Are you watching and do you have.
- [46:01]
Mark Halperin
Any thoughts on the Apple show? The morning show? I've never missed an episode. I've seen everyone quiz me on anything.
- [46:07]
Maureen Callahan
All right, let's talk. Let's talk.
- [46:10]
Mark Halperin
Do.
- [46:10]
Maureen Callahan
So what did you make of the Reese Witherspoon Billy Crudup pairing, which to my mind is the most cringeworthy on screen forced romance since we were forced to see Cynthia Nixon in bed with Rosie o'. Donnell.
- [46:24]
Mark Halperin
It's so bad. It literally ruins the show. But I think his character sort of ruins the show.
- [46:29]
Maureen Callahan
You do? Tell me. I think he's the best thing about it.
- [46:31]
Mark Halperin
Well, he is. As a standalone, if the show were just him. But it's so out of sync with the rest of the kind of realism of the rest of the show. And the rest of the show. Having worked in network tv, the rest of the show is actually quite. It's filled with versalimitude. It's. Right. It's just like very spot on about the dynamics of morning TV and network tv. His character is like a cartoon. So so it be their relationship is if, like, you know, like. Let me think of a good example. It'd be like if. Who's a real character on a show? It'd be like if Rachel on Michael.
- [47:04]
Maureen Callahan
Strahan started making out with Robin Roberts.
- [47:07]
Mark Halperin
No, it'd be more like if. That's a different problem. It'd be like if Michael Strahan started making out with Jessica Rabbit. Like he's a cartoon character. He's not. There's nothing realistic about his character. His character does these over the top furniture chewing scenes that aren't realistic and everything else in the show is realistic. I just. It doesn't make any sense to me.
- [47:27]
Maureen Callahan
See, this is wild to me because you and I agree on Robert Caro and we have outlier opinions on him. Okay.
- [47:34]
Mark Halperin
He's a great character. He's just a great character for a different show.
- [47:37]
Seth Meyers
No, no, no.
- [47:38]
Maureen Callahan
What I'm shocked that you're saying is you think the morning show feels true to life.
- [47:42]
Mark Halperin
Oh, it totally does. Except for him. It totally does.
- [47:44]
Maureen Callahan
Really?
- [47:45]
Mark Halperin
Oh, yeah.
- [47:46]
Maureen Callahan
Okay. So do you think the prickly Bitchy Jennifer Aniston character reads as morning tv.
- [47:52]
Mark Halperin
A certain kind of morning tv. Yeah, more like network tv. She's more like an evening anchor. But she left the morning show to be in the evening anchor.
- [48:00]
Maureen Callahan
I forgot because the writing is so sloppy and we have to wait like 100 years between seasons.
- [48:06]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. I find my favorite part of the show, again, as someone who grew up in network tv, my favorite part of the show are, like, the secondary characters who work for the Work in the news division. I find them to be very entertaining.
- [48:18]
Maureen Callahan
What did you think of Mia? Now, Mia is the. The black female interim news director who was assured she was going to get the gig and then had to go up to the boardroom and pitch herself. And her pitch was that the win for them to become number one was to cover breaking news.
- [48:38]
Mark Halperin
Yeah, I like. I like her capacity to do size and eye rolls. I think she's got those two down. If there's an Emmy for size and eye rolls, she's a lock.
- [48:47]
Maureen Callahan
But do you think they were writing the character to be competent or do you think they were making a subtextual argument against her?
- [48:54]
Mark Halperin
I see what you're saying. I vote competent. I think they think she's got, like, a wisdom about the business. That's my sense of the character.
- [49:02]
Maureen Callahan
Interesting. Okay. Do you buy that the Celine character who is parachuted in and we really have zero backstory, but it's great to see an actress on that show with some real style and a sense of humor. Marion Cotillard. Do you buy that she would not be aware that her husband is having an affair with her top lieutenant?
- [49:22]
Mark Halperin
Not based on how obvious that one scene in the doorway was.
- [49:25]
Maureen Callahan
Right?
- [49:26]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. That scene in the doorway was ridic.
- [49:28]
Maureen Callahan
That's the thing. You're supposed to be part of a news gathering organization, and this is the thing. Oh, okay. Just one other thing about the most recent episode. So we open, we're Rickrolling in the year 2025. So again, I'm already put off. And then we have the meteorologist who, I am sorry, reads as a gay male to me, always practicing his surprise proposal to his co worker who works at the network. On the same soundstage, they're practicing it and they're talking about how they're keeping it a big secret from her. This is a. This is a song and dance number with, like, backup players and animals and all this crap. And she has, quote, unquote, no idea throughout the whole thing. Anyone who has been in a newsroom knows that the number two priority after Covering the news is reporters reporting on the other reporters in the newsroom.
- [50:18]
Mark Halperin
I agree with you. I had the exact same reaction. I do have a soft spot for him as a character because he is so obviously gay. And yet again, are they.
- [50:26]
Maureen Callahan
Is this the subtext of the writing? I can't tell.
- [50:29]
Mark Halperin
I just. I'm a sucker for the stock character of the secretly gay weatherman. I just. It's a. It's a. It's a trope that I love.
- [50:37]
Maureen Callahan
It's like. It's like in New York especially, we know all of our weathermen, our best weathermen, are gay men.
- [50:41]
Mark Halperin
They all are. They are gay men. Yeah. Same champion. The. The. The. He's openly gay, right? I'm not. I'm not creating anything.
- [50:47]
Maureen Callahan
I'm pretty sure.
- [50:47]
Mark Halperin
I think he is. The thing about that character is it's a good example because I consider him a secondary character. He. He behaves like an insecure weatherman who wants to be on the news couch. Like, I think he's got that. That. That vibe nailed. Like, he's ambitious and secure, grasping. I think he does that very well.
- [51:06]
Maureen Callahan
You're right. You actually nailed that. I didn't. I didn't observe that. And now I got to give a little bit more credit to that eyeliner tattooed actor. I really do.
- [51:16]
Mark Halperin
Is he tattooed? The eyeliner is hard to miss, but.
- [51:18]
Maureen Callahan
The eyeliner looks tattooed on to me.
- [51:19]
Mark Halperin
Because I see what you're saying.
- [51:20]
Maureen Callahan
You know, it's really deep. It never smudges. Okay, Harry and Meghan. Now, they were in New York last week to accept a humanitarian ward. But I want to know, Mark, what you made of Meghan's little sojourn to Paris and her disaster tourism, filming herself driving by Diana's death tunnel?
- [51:41]
Mark Halperin
I mean, I always go back to the same question about her, which is, why did she leave? Why did she move to California where her life would be complex and hard? Why didn't she just suck it up and be nice to her new relatives and live the life she was intended to live at Lead after she got married? You know, the Paris thing is a great example. It's like. It's like she. She has no sense. She has no sense about maintaining her public image. There's never been a bigger gap between how much someone has paid for PR advice and how poorly they live the life of someone trying to have good pr. She just. She just keeps stumbling right back into the shit. And. And again, I don't know why she left London. I don't know why she thought that would be A good move, I think.
- [52:22]
Maureen Callahan
My theory is she was and is fueled by rage that Catherine, Princess of Wales, is in line for the throne and will be Queen of England someday. And I think she plotted an attempt to destroy the monarchy because she could never be queen. And I actually think that the things that she does aren't so much stumbles as they are deliberate fus. I think this is. Did you notice her laughing at the Balenciaga show when the model tripped on the Runway?
- [52:50]
Mark Halperin
I did notice. I saw a still of that, yeah. I, I don't know. I mean, it's too, it's too fat seal to say she's just psycho, but.
- [52:57]
Maureen Callahan
I don't think she's a psycho.
- [52:59]
Mark Halperin
No, I'm not saying, I'm not saying you're, I'm. No, I'm saying you're not saying that. I'm saying you're right, that there's more to it than just that. But there's, there's something off about, about all of this. It doesn't make sense because, because she puts herself in the, on the back foot just far too often. Like, who's she playing to? Her constituency shrunk down to, you know, paid staff and close relatives. And some of the close relatives, I think are having second thoughts.
- [53:22]
Maureen Callahan
Agreed. I, I, I just, I marvel at the entire thing. And what I marvel at the most is like, as you said, there's never really been a bigger gap between someone's self perception and the person that we all see and recoil from. And she won't ever take the note. She'll, she just, she digs in deeper and deeper and every time, every time. Mark, have you thought at all what like, the end game looks like for her? Like where she winds up, say, 10 years from now, 20 years from now?
- [53:52]
Mark Halperin
I think it depends on whether she actually finds something proper to do. Right. If you look at the accumulation of all her projects, they're all misguided and poorly executed. Right. And so in the next 10 years, can she find something that is, you know, that she's good at and that's useful if she doesn't, I'm not sure what we'll say in 10 years if she does. I think she could be on sounder footing, but just. I'm gonna ask Chatgpt for the list, but she's, she's tried like 30 things and they've all been bollocks up.
- [54:26]
Maureen Callahan
You know, she launched her wine. So apparently Prince William is reportedly livid beyond words at the Diana Tunnel stunt from week.
- [54:37]
Mark Halperin
Who reported, who reported that.
- [54:39]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, it was all over.
- [54:41]
Mark Halperin
I missed it.
- [54:42]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah. And. And he was also livid that when she launched her wine initially, she launched it on Diana's birthday. Diana was infamously killed by a drunk driver.
- [54:52]
Mark Halperin
Yeah.
- [54:54]
Maureen Callahan
And allegedly. Oh, we could say he was drunk. He was the. The blood alcohol. He died.
- [55:00]
Mark Halperin
Well, he may not have been the. A person who actually killed her.
- [55:03]
Maureen Callahan
Oh. What do you believe?
- [55:05]
Mark Halperin
Oh, I don't know. I'm just open to anything on that.
- [55:07]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, are you? Are. You Don't. You don't believe your truth or you don't believe in the.
- [55:11]
Mark Halperin
I am on that. That one.
- [55:13]
Maureen Callahan
Tell me why. Tell me your theory. What's your top working theory?
- [55:17]
Mark Halperin
I don't have a concrete theory, except I'm just generally suspicious because I just. The whole. The whole way the investigation was handled undermined my confidence in the official story.
- [55:25]
Maureen Callahan
Really?
- [55:26]
Mark Halperin
Yeah.
- [55:27]
Maureen Callahan
You think it was possibly a targeted hit?
- [55:29]
Mark Halperin
I do. There's just too many people who wanted her dead.
- [55:32]
Maureen Callahan
Interesting. I love this. This is fascinating. I gotta follow up because this is a. This is a big thing that actually Joe Rogan has brought into the. Into the realm of polite, smart discussion. Do you believe the moon landing was real?
- [55:46]
Mark Halperin
That one I'm. That one I'm fine with. Yeah.
- [55:48]
Maureen Callahan
Cool. Okay, now I want your thoughts.
- [55:52]
Mark Halperin
I do. I do think. I do think Epstein was killed. If you want to know my strongest.
- [55:56]
Maureen Callahan
I agree with you. I'm 100 with you on that one. Two more, and then I'll let you go. You're being very generous with your time. Your reaction to the bombshell. Nicole Kidman. Keith Urban split.
- [56:07]
Mark Halperin
Okay, so you got to start with the premise that this woman was married to Tom Cruise, right? So you think that. What do we say about the relationship with her with Keith? It's like, okay, we start with that premise. She was married to Tom Cruise, so there's something off. Plus. Plus, her relationship with her two kids with Tom Cruise is a little bit bizarre. Do you remember the famous Tina Fey line about that?
- [56:27]
Maureen Callahan
What did she say?
- [56:28]
Mark Halperin
She says, like, after the divorce, the two children were returned to the prop department at Paramount. Like, so I just. I like his music and I love her acting. But whenever I saw them at award shows, whether it was for her awards for. For, you know, acting or is for music, I just. I never sensed a vibe of true love between them. I just never did. For whatever reason, maybe because she was married to Tom Cruise. So. So. So people say, like, a lot of the coverage is shocking. Divorce, no logical conclusion. Divorce for me.
- [57:06]
Maureen Callahan
Agreed 100%. Like I feel like shocking is just a word that any tabloid flings around anytime a celebrity couple splits up, which, like, let's get real, 99.9% of them do. Do you think, by the way, Travis and Taylor are in it for the long haul or do you think it's like a 10 year couple of kids things and then it's time for a divorce?
- [57:26]
Mark Halperin
I mean, the bad writing on the album gives me a feeling of bad juju about the whole thing. Because. Because. Because it takes a lot of bad juju to get Taylor Swift to write bad lyrics. So that makes me pause. And the drinking gives me pause, you know?
- [57:41]
Maureen Callahan
Yes.
- [57:42]
Mark Halperin
Not. Not a ton of long term solid marriages are built around getting hammered, in my experience.
- [57:49]
Maureen Callahan
True.
- [57:49]
Mark Halperin
But I hope it works out. I hope it works out.
- [57:53]
Maureen Callahan
They. They did it. They went around twice.
- [57:55]
Mark Halperin
Yeah, but it took twice to make it stick.
- [57:58]
Maureen Callahan
Well, they did divorce again a second time, but, you know, Richard Burton was an alcoholic non parel.
- [58:03]
Mark Halperin
Yeah, I think it proves my point. Double rather than dispersing.
- [58:06]
Maureen Callahan
But you know what else gives me bad juju? And I like both of your reasons a lot. I really do. The third is that prior to now, Travis Kelsey preferred dating black women.
- [58:16]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I will say. Did you watch all two hours of the New Heights podcast?
- [58:22]
Maureen Callahan
I did not.
- [58:23]
Mark Halperin
Okay. If you. I recommended. If you're. If you want to go deep on their relationship, there really did seem to be what my friend Madonna, we call true love between them. That podcast, that podcast really revolutionize my sensibility about their relationship. I'm rooting. I root for her always. So I hope it works out. But, you know, he's. And he's not. He's not a dumb jock. And you'll see that's one of the reasons to watch the full two hours. He's a smart guy, a very sophisticated mind, but not as smart as most of the other guys she dated. So I'll hope for the best, embrace for the worst. How about that?
- [58:57]
Maureen Callahan
I also. Same. You know, we always root for love, but I also think this guy has rage issues, as we've seen on the field more than once.
- [59:05]
Mark Halperin
Yeah, but NFL players are paid to have rage issues.
- [59:08]
Maureen Callahan
That's like Tom Brady never expressed rage on the. Not like that.
- [59:13]
Mark Halperin
Quarterbacks are a little different.
- [59:15]
Maureen Callahan
Fair enough. I really don't know that much about football other than the quarterbacks are protected like Fort Knox.
- [59:20]
Mark Halperin
Yeah.
- [59:20]
Maureen Callahan
My final. I have to do this video with you. I have to. I have to get the goss from you.
- [59:26]
Mark Halperin
Yeah, the.
- [59:27]
Maureen Callahan
The hot take, rather on this clip of Michelle Obama.
- [59:31]
Mark Halperin
Oh, yeah.
- [59:32]
Maureen Callahan
Talking about Barack's latest offense within the four walls of their otherwise happy marital home. Because how many times do somebody asks, what are you thinking about? And you're like, well, let me make up a thing because I don't want to actually say what I was thinking about, which was like, the way you're chewing makes me want to smack you upside down.
- [59:56]
Mark Halperin
That's why I got an edge. That would be an edge and that.
- [60:00]
Maureen Callahan
Would be really interesting. You could like open something up there in a big way. You're chewing annoy me so much. Let's discuss. Let's discuss. Mark.
- [60:09]
Mark Halperin
Indeed, that is a Michelle Obama. I don't know, he called a meme or a nervous tick. That's been part of her shtick before the podcast, but it's a big part of the podcast. Like, let me tell you in a relatable way how my handsome, rich, famous, history making husband is a slob and a slug.
- [60:31]
Maureen Callahan
So true.
- [60:33]
Mark Halperin
I don't find it relatable.
- [60:34]
Maureen Callahan
I don't find it relatable. I don't. I think I've always found, whatever your politics, I've always found Barack Obama very attractive, you know.
- [60:41]
Mark Halperin
Oh, yeah, super hottie.
- [60:43]
Maureen Callahan
He's really an attractive guy. And he's interesting because his face kind of transforms when he smiles. Like, they're both good looking faces. But to your point. Yes. Like, you're right. When he was first coming on the national scene, she called him stinky Snorri. Barack.
- [60:59]
Mark Halperin
Yeah.
- [61:00]
Maureen Callahan
Who can never pick up after himself. His dirty socks. Like, what is she doing?
- [61:05]
Mark Halperin
I just don't get that shtick from like a content creator point of view. I don't know how she thinks that's relatable. But also, I just, I don't know, I just, I just, it's not my thing. I just don't. I just don't dig it.
- [61:17]
Maureen Callahan
I see a Meghan and Harry adjacency here and maybe even a bit of a Chelsea Clinton adjacency because, you know, she's, she's in our lane now, Mark. We got to watch out for the.
- [61:28]
Mark Halperin
Everybody.
- [61:31]
Maureen Callahan
Talent that is Chelsea Clinton Maureen.
- [61:33]
Mark Halperin
Eventually everyone will have a podcast. So just don't.
- [61:36]
Maureen Callahan
It's like Andy Warhol said, right?
- [61:37]
Mark Halperin
Exactly.
- [61:38]
Maureen Callahan
Famous for 15 minutes. My point being that the only thing she's really got to offer because I don't think she's particularly, particularly smart or interesting or interested. I don't think she's a fun conversationalist.
- [61:50]
Mark Halperin
Are we in Chelsea or Michelle?
- [61:52]
Maureen Callahan
Michelle. So all she's got to talk about is Barack. And I think that's why we're constantly digging around for. As well as a way of leveling him down to her level.
- [62:03]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. The only thing I dissent on is she's actually, I think, pretty interesting.
- [62:07]
Maureen Callahan
You do?
- [62:08]
Mark Halperin
I don't think she. I don't think she's. She offers that up in public life very often, but I think in actuality, based on my limited knowledge and reporting, I think she's pretty interesting.
- [62:19]
Maureen Callahan
What do you find interesting?
- [62:21]
Mark Halperin
Well, no, just people I know who. Who are good evaluators of interesting. Who are her friends tell me. She's quite interesting.
- [62:28]
Maureen Callahan
Why is. Why is she. Why does she not share that aspect of herself with us?
- [62:32]
Mark Halperin
For the same reason that Hillary Clinton and Mitt Romney were horrible presidential candidates. Some people aren't good in public.
- [62:38]
Maureen Callahan
Oh, so it really can just be that simple?
- [62:40]
Mark Halperin
I think so. Based on my reporting, I'd say that.
- [62:42]
Maureen Callahan
I love it.
- [62:43]
Mark Halperin
But that means you shouldn't host a podcast.
- [62:45]
Maureen Callahan
Yeah, exactly. If you're boring, don't host a podcast.
- [62:50]
Mark Halperin
Pretty basic, Clinton, As Bill Clinton said about Mitt Romney, that man should not have a job that requires him to speak in public.
- [62:59]
Maureen Callahan
Bill was very right about that.
- [63:01]
Mark Halperin
Yeah. And it applies to many. Exactly. It applies to many people. That whole sensibility.
- [63:08]
Maureen Callahan
That is fascinating. You know, it's a very Occam's Razor sentiment. The most simple explanation is the. Is the most likely.
- [63:14]
Mark Halperin
Often the most likely. Not always, but often.
- [63:17]
Maureen Callahan
Well, thanks, Mark. We now consider you a total honorary troublemaker. Please come back anytime.
- [63:22]
Mark Halperin
Honored to be included. I hope I pass the test. We'll let the.
- [63:24]
Maureen Callahan
We'll never attest here.
- [63:26]
Mark Halperin
We'll let the fans decide person to person.
- [63:29]
Maureen Callahan
I love that you're deep into pop culture. I had no idea. And this was super fun. So thank you.
- [63:34]
Mark Halperin
Thank you for having me on. Talk to you soon. Great to see you.
- [63:36]
Maureen Callahan
And that does it. That does it for our Wednesday edition, our second edition of the Nerve at night. We will be right back here again on Friday and of course, the Mini Nerve on Saturday, which we. We already know what it is like. It's going to be great. It's gonna. It's more of the stuff you guys have been asking for. That's our goal. You ask, we answer, we deliver. Okay. Again, be on the lookout for the sub stack. We are going to get you the specific information on that soon. And in the meantime, we look forward to seeing you on Friday right here at the Nerve, where you will never guess what we're about to say next?