The Nerve-y Traveler: Maureen Callahan & Belinda Carlisle Explore History & Mythology of Mexico City

Summary

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The Nerve-y Traveler: Maureen Callahan & Belinda Carlisle Explore History & Mythology of Mexico City

Podcast: The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
Host: MK Media
Date: December 30, 2025
Guests: Maureen Callahan, Belinda Carlisle
Theme: A “troublemaking” travelogue: Maureen and pop icon Belinda Carlisle dig deep into Mexico City’s storied past, its mysteries, and its under-discovered wonders – embracing “nervy” adventures and irreverent humor along the way.

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Episode Overview

In the inaugural “Nervy Traveler” edition, Maureen Callahan teams up with legendary Go-Go’s singer Belinda Carlisle for an atypical, curiosity-driven tour of Mexico City. This isn’t your typical travel show; the duo sidestep the clichés and tourist traps, seeking out the city’s weirdest, wildest, and most meaningful history and mythology. Belinda, who has lived in the city for over four years, acts as both tour guide and partner-in-troublemaking. Along the way, they challenge the conventions of celebrity travel (“Tracy Ellis Ross, take note!”), revel in the eerie and the awe-inspiring, and blend hilarious pop culture wit with true curiosity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

How the Collaboration Began (00:30–04:50)

• Social Media Serendipity: Belinda contacted Maureen at the launch of The Nerve for lunch, bonding instantly over a mutual passion for offbeat travel.
• From Fan to Friend: Maureen was a longtime Go-Go’s fan; their relationship quickly became a creative partnership.
• Their Mission: To show a side of places like Mexico City “no other travel guide” ever would, with Belinda as the knowing guide.

Belinda’s Adventurous (and Sometimes Dangerous) Travel Philosophy (04:51–11:03)

• Seeking the Unusual: Belinda is drawn to “places that people don’t normally go to,” often with State Department travel warnings.
  • Quote (Belinda, 04:51): “My traveling are the places that people don't normally go to. I love traveling in Islamic countries because I feel safer.”
• Archaeological Obsessions: The pair discuss how churches and sites worldwide are often built atop ancient civilizations, and how new technology is upending our historical knowledge.
  • Quote (Belinda, 05:18): “A lot of the archaeological finds in this, especially in the eastern part of Turkey, can potentially rewrite the history of mankind.”
• Traveling in Hermit Kingdoms: Belinda recounts a harrowing visit to a "hermit country” (implied to be Turkmenistan), where public figures and journalists are considered unwelcome.
  • Quote (Belinda, 08:16): “I've never been... so, I mean, I was really scared. We were there for about a week and trying to figure out how to leave.”
• Thrill-Seeking Roots: Maureen wonders how a “nice girl from suburban California” became a hotspot-seeker. Belinda half-jokes that it’s “the former drug addict in me for thrill. It’s like an adrenaline thing.” (10:28)

The Pyramids of Mexico City - Surprising Layers of History (11:03–19:19)

• Pyramids Beyond Egypt: Maureen is stunned at the prevalence of pyramids in Mexico, even within city limits.
  • Quote (Maureen, 11:03): “I thought pyramids were really only in Egypt. They're everywhere. And there's a bunch in Mexico, in Mexico City.”
• Tour Guide Carolina Explains Mesoamerican Myths (14:51–17:26):
  • Founding myth of Mexico City: an eagle eating a snake atop a cactus (now the symbol on the Mexican flag).
  • The city’s geography—built atop a lake, more than 2000 meters above sea level.
• Altitude & Adaptation: Practical tips on managing the high altitude—herbal pills over pharmaceuticals, Belinda’s regular travel routine.
• Engineering Marvels: The team marvels at ancient homes designed for natural airflow—an “ancient version of air conditioning.”
  • Quote (Maureen, 19:00): “What struck both she and I about this ancient, ancient structure… they were engineered in such a way that the doors… captured the direction in which cool air would flow through…”

Humor & Subversion—Mocking The Clichés (12:32–13:54)

• Satirizing Celebrity Travel: Maureen and Belinda lampoon moments from Tracee Ellis Ross’ show, “Always searching for places to put your camera to take pictures of yourself.”
• “Marveling at Trees”: Inspired spoof: the pair pretend to be awestruck by ordinary roadside trees.
  • Standout moment (13:14):
    • Maureen: “Trees, trees, trees. Oh, my God. It’s fall. It's maybe dying, but it's a tree. Oh, I can’t believe it.”
    • Belinda: “A tree.”
• Beauty Regimens in Bizarre Places: Embracing self-care, they dry-brush at the pyramids—cheekily linking ancient sites with modern rituals.

The Island of the Dolls—Dark Tourism and Urban Mythology (22:59–38:34)

• The Quest for the Real Island: Navigating sketchy boatmen and fake “islands of the dolls,” the duo insists on reaching the authentic weirdness.
  • Colorful Description (approx. 24:00): “Some of these are hoax boats… they take you so far, and then they’re like, ‘here’s the island of the dolls,’ and there’s like, one doll hanging…”
• History & Myth: Belinda recounts the legend: A drowned girl’s body led a local farmer to hang dolls to appease spirits—he, too, drowned in the same place.
  • Belinda (27:04): “There was a farmer and he saw the body of a young girl washed up on the shore... He put dolls everywhere to ward off evil spirits... And I think he died the same way, actually.”
• Atmosphere: Disquiet mixes with humor: “I thought, you know, I’ll bet some of these dolls could use a good dry brushing… So instead I brought a toothbrush.” (31:59)
• Staging the Macabre: The dolls are positioned ever-more ghoulishly. The pair compare it to “the Blair Witch Project”—eerie, but also a bit tongue-in-cheek.
  • Belinda (36:45): “There is kind of funny. Like I was saying, it feels like it's a competition. Like, how can you freak out visitors?”
• Life on the Island: Local families actually inhabit the site; Maureen ponders the young “heiress” to the island’s weird legacy.

Reflections on Travel, Authenticity, and the Joy of the Unexpected (38:44–41:14)

• Belinda’s love for Mexico: Embracing the “Wexican” (white Mexican) label with humor and gratitude: “I aspire to be a Wexican or a Mexican. I mean, I love the culture here so much and the people.” (39:05)
• Style on the Go: Maureen insists on discussing Belinda’s stylish jacket and scarf amidst the haunted dolls.
• The Magic of Missed Plans: Travel mishaps (missing the sunset, logistical headaches) become the source of magic—the evening boat ride back in golden light, surrounded by peaceful nature.
  • Quote (Maureen, 41:02): “Even the things that sort of mess up your plan or your agenda for the day can really actually turn out to be, like, the greatest… We have this beautiful light, this quiet. We just lucked out.”

Philosophy of “Energetic Tourism” (41:14–41:47)

• Avoiding the Crowds: Belinda’s spiritual approach: “When a place is mobbed by tourists, it actually kind of interferes with the energy exchange… You’re on a site that has seen a lot where people have lived, people have died, where significant consequential things have happened…”
• Special Moments: Early mornings, off-hours, and time alone make for the most meaningful site visits.

Day 3 Highlights—Frida Kahlo Museum & Celebratory Silliness (47:02–49:54)

• Frida Kahlo Museum: An exclusive look inside (photos and video not usually allowed!), celebrating Mexico’s artistic and feminist legend.
• Mimicking Tourist Stereotypes: Belinda and Maureen embrace “ugly” souvenirs and stage an impromptu rooftop rendition of “We Got The Beat”—sombreros and maracas included.
  • Memorable musical moment (49:38):
    • Belinda (singing): “See the people walking down the street / Falling lines and spots and all their feet… We got the beat, we got the beat, we got the beat. Suck it, Tracy Ellis Ross—try to do that with a real Go Go.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (With Timestamps)

• Belinda Carlisle on safer travel in Islamic states:
  “I love traveling in Islamic countries because I feel safer.” (04:51)

• Travel as Thrill-Seeking:
  “I think it's that the former drug addict in me for thrill. I mean… it's like an adrenaline thing.” —Belinda Carlisle (10:28)

• Maureen discarding travel clichés:
  “I thought pyramids were really only in Egypt. They're everywhere…” (11:03)

• Tour Guide Carolina on Mexico’s mythic origins:
  “That was our foundational myth… our flag, it's green, white, and red, and in the middle, it has an eagle on top of a cactus.” (16:07)

• Island of the Dolls, in a nutshell:
  “It is an island full of dead dolls.. that are hanging everywhere…” —Maureen (27:02)
  “And I think he died the same way, actually. I think he drowned.” —Belinda (27:45)

• On the dolls’ macabre “competition”:
  “It feels like it's a competition. Like, how can you freak out visitors?” —Belinda (36:45)

• On finding joy in travel mishaps:
  “Things that sort of mess up your plan… can actually turn out to be the greatest…” —Maureen (41:02)

• Belinda’s gratitude for Mexico:
  “I aspire to be a Wexican or a Mexican. I mean, I love the culture here so much and the people.” (39:05)

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Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• [00:30] – The origin of Maureen & Belinda’s travel partnership.
• [04:51] – Belinda's travel risk philosophy; exploring Eastern Turkey, hidden archaeology.
• [07:17–09:59] – Stories from hermit states (hint: Turkmenistan), close calls for public figures.
• [11:03] – Discovery: pyramids in Mexico City.
• [14:51] – Tour guide Carolina on the Pyramid of the Sun and founding myths.
• [19:00] – Marveling at ancient urban engineering; ritualistic dry-brushing humor.
• [22:59] – Introduction to the Island of the Dolls mythos.
• [24:00] – Navigating to the real (not fake) Island of the Dolls.
• [27:02–29:55] – Story, superstition, and the island’s strange ecology (hello, peculiar fish!).
• [31:59–36:00] – Exfoliating the dolls; comparing the experience to the Blair Witch Project.
• [39:05] – “Wexican” identity, candid & affectionate.
• [41:02] – Reflections on serendipity and travel magic.
• [47:02] – Frida Kahlo Museum; procurement of loud, kitschy souvenirs.
• [49:38–49:54] – Rooftop “We Got The Beat” jam.

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Tone & Style

Part travel doc, part pop-culture roast, equal parts affection and irreverence—Maureen and Belinda take listeners on journeys that are as much about attitude (and self-mockery) as about location. They blend deep curiosity for the world with skepticism toward conventional wisdom and cliché, all while gleefully poking fun at themselves and celebrity travel norms.

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Summary for New Listeners:
This episode is a love letter to the delightfully weird, obscure, and mythic corners of Mexico City—led by two boldly curious troublemakers. If you think you know travel podcasts, or even Mexico City, this episode is sure to surprise, inspire, and make you laugh out loud.

Transcript

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[Maureen]

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[Belinda Carlisle]

My traveling are the places that people don't normally go to. I love traveling in Islamic countries because I feel safer.

[Maureen]

Let's talk about that.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Yeah.

[Maureen]

Because this is something I'm struggling to get my mind around. Oh, and by the way, for the troublemakers, we're going to show Belinda's photos of the ark and the impressions in the earth, which are truly incredible. I can't believe it's not a UNESCO World Heritage Site. But you say a lot of these don't want it.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Well, I mean, a lot of the archaeological finds in this, especially in the eastern part of Turkey, can potentially rewrite the history of mankind. And because of that, there's the academia, the powers that be don't necessarily want that to happen. Because it could, it could change everything in society. It could change our belief system or, you know, our religions. You know, they're, they're, they're. And they have this new technology now. It's where they're able to almost like penetrate the ground, like lidar, but even lidar on steroids, where they're able to penetrate to the ground and they're finding. It's going to be interesting to see what happens because a lot of this, you know, rewriting of history is probably, you know, I don't think it's, it's going to be easy to avoid. That's happening all around the world now is when a lot of countries don't have the money to excavate, you know, so, you know, I just. Wherever you, you know, who knows what you're walking on top of. And Mexico especially, people don't realize that there are pyramids everywhere. So I was always traveling in the southwest of France and churches are built on the site of old Cathar temples and that would go back to the crusades and. But yeah, they, they, you know, I think through our history they found ancient sites and just built on top of them. Yeah, there's something there.

[Maureen]

There's something there. Now let's talk about your trips to Islamic states.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Yes. I feel much safer to be going to places like. Well, to Turkey. We've done Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan. I feel safer, actually.

[Maureen]

How so?

[Belinda Carlisle]

I feel invisible.

[Maureen]

Can we talk about your flight out of Turkey? You had a pit stop.

[Belinda Carlisle]

There is a country in the world that is even more of a hermit country than North Korea.

[Maureen]

Really?

[Belinda Carlisle]

Yes. And I wanted to go. And so they only give out 1500 visas a year to go. So a friend and I and a woman. A woman can't travel solo there. My side was always travel with Lisa. So we had to go as a part of a group to be able to get into the country.

[Maureen]

Okay.

[Belinda Carlisle]

And so we did and we kind of ditched everybody. And we had to have, you have to have a mind dirt of it is of. As a citizen of that particular country that I was in, and I just said it like this. I just had a new found respect for democracy and freedom. I have never been. So, I mean, I was really scared.

[Maureen]

Really?

[Belinda Carlisle]

Yeah, I was really scared. We were there for about a week and trying to figure out how to leave and they couldn't leave. We couldn't change our flights, so we just made the best of it. So we bought carpets and Melinda also.

[Maureen]

Has a shopping problem.

[Belinda Carlisle]

And now Drew. And you know, we had, you know, we just made the best. There's some amazing ancient sites there that nobody knows about that we went to. I mean, Zoroastrian temples, like weird, weird stuff. So that was kind of, we tried to make the best of it. But on the last day we got a phone call because my friend who's a writer and I'm of course a singer. People with any kind of public profile and journalists are not allowed in the country.

[Maureen]

Why is that?

[Belinda Carlisle]

I don't, I don't think they want, I don't think that they really want to be exposed.

[Maureen]

Got it.

[Belinda Carlisle]

So we got a phone call saying, or the guy did, saying, we know about these two.

[Maureen]

Uh huh.

[Belinda Carlisle]

And it was like a veiled. But like, we hope they really, they only say good things about it.

[Maureen]

Oh wow.

[Belinda Carlisle]

So she said, if I were you, I'd erase everything that you have on your phone, email, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Which we did.

[Maureen]

Before you came to the airport. You knew that phone call was. Oh ha.

[Belinda Carlisle]

That called my husband and he goes, I told you not to go in the house. So Lisa had to take off before me. And that's terrifying. No, no, it was terrifying. It was really, really scary. It's the only time I've been scared in my travels.

[Maureen]

So this is the question really, to what? You are a nice, Are you Catholic? Were you raised Catholic?

[Belinda Carlisle]

No, I was raised Southern Baptist.

[Maureen]

Okay. A nice girl from suburban California who became a very sunny, happy. Like you just give joy through your music. Right. And yet you are attracted to the edgiest, the most dangerous hotspots on the planet. To what do you attribute this?

[Belinda Carlisle]

Okay, I think it's that the former drug addict in me for thrill. I mean that's, I do think it's like, you know, it's like an adrenaline thing and being, you know, you know, a former addict. I think that that kind of tits. Tits. The box.

[Maureen]

I, you know, if I were in a foxhole in a foreign country, I would want to be with you.

[Belinda Carlisle]

I, I, I, I, I, I, I could take care of you. I can.

[Maureen]

I believe you could. I believe.

[Belinda Carlisle]

I really think I could. It's really not that scary.

[Maureen]

If you say so. Now, on the way to, on day one, we were headed to the pyramids in Mexico City. There are many pyramids in Mexico City. I had no idea. I like to travel. I have not traveled nearly as extensively as Belinda has, but you know, I read a lot. I think I'm a fairly well informed person. I thought pyramids were really only in Egypt. They're everywhere. And there's a bunch in Mexico, in Mexico City. And I'll tell you where another wild one is. You're not going to believe it. It's like, in the city center. It's wild. So we thought about how can we. How can we improve upon what Tracee Ellis Ross did on her special? And we remembered something that in her travels, you know, Tracy was always in a chauffeured suv. And there was an amazing part in which Tracy looked out the window to the side of a major highway. And major highways are often buffeted by trees. And Tracy marveled at the trees. I just. I could watch trees all day sing and dance, and they're just gorgeous.

[Carolina (Tour Guide)]

Look at that.

[Belinda Carlisle]

That is gorgeous. Holy moly.

[Maureen]

Did you see that tree? Do you guys want to know how I did my hair? So Belinda and I were thusly inspired to marvel at things that might, you know, like, you know, it might just. We're taking it for granted that there are trees on the side of a highway, right? Like, let's get out. Let's, like, pay proper fealty to whatever city planner decided to put some trees on the side of a road to absorb the carbon dioxide that's coming out of cars. Here we go. Oh, my God.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Cannot believe it.

[Maureen]

Trees, trees, trees. Oh, my God. It's fall. It's maybe dying, but it's a tree. Oh, I can't believe it. Oh, my God. I can't believe it. Oh, big, big mecca. Tall trees. Were there, like, six of them. How lucky to experience this with you.

[Belinda Carlisle]

A tree.

[Maureen]

A tree on the side of the road. Wow.

[Belinda Carlisle]

I feel like, really, God. Sort of overwhelmed by this all.

[Maureen]

Okay, saw some trees.

[Belinda Carlisle]

We can go back to the hotel and go to the spa.

[Maureen]

Yeah, let's do it.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Get a good massage.

[Maureen]

Go shopping. Maybe at the hotel gift shop.

[Belinda Carlisle]

They'll have to.

[Maureen]

Should I be afraid at the gift shop?

[Belinda Carlisle]

I'm sure it'll be fine. Okay. I think she's kind of cool, the woman who works there.

[Maureen]

All right, if you say so. Then we went to the pyramids. We had a tour guide named Carolina who. Who told us all about the things that they know about the pyramids and the things that they don't know about the pyramids, and the latter outweighs the former. They don't know a lot about the pyramids, really. It's mind blowing. We were learning from our tour guide, Carolina, that there are a number, an unknown number of pyramids that are buried under mountainous vegetation and soil and that the ones that we were at were, in fact, excavated. They were mountains that were, quote, unquote, like, blown up. And they discovered by accident these ancient pyramids.

[Carolina (Tour Guide)]

So right now, we're located in front of the Pyramid of the Sun. This pyramid is just how incredible and amazing this metropolis of Mesoamerica was. At first, we need to understand that Mesoamerica is a geographic area that was constructed of several cultures. For example, there were the Omecas in Oaxaca, the Purepechas in Michoacan, the Mayas in the peninsula of Yucatan. So these different cultures were part of Mesoamerica. There's a difference between myths and history. So the myth says that there was this God named Huitzilopocht.

[Maureen]

A God? Yeah, he was a Mesoamerican God. Yeah.

[Carolina (Tour Guide)]

So he appeared in the dreams of one of the leaders of the Mexicas. They went from the north looking for a snake on top of a cactus. The eagle is eating the snake.

[Maureen]

The eagle is eating. Okay, and what does that mean?

[Carolina (Tour Guide)]

That was our foundational myth of really, Mexico City, because this leader went 400 years looking for that place, which is Mexico City.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Right.

[Carolina (Tour Guide)]

And that's part of our flag. Like, if you see our flag, it's green, white, and red, and in the middle, it has an eagle on top of a cactus.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Oh, I didn't know that. That's so funny.

[Maureen]

So do we know, though, why is the. Usually I would think the snake would be eating the eagle, but the other way around. So we're. Do you know what that symbolizes?

[Carolina (Tour Guide)]

Well, it was like when they actually saw it. According to the myth.

[Maureen]

Yes.

[Carolina (Tour Guide)]

It's in the middle of a lake. So Mexico City was a huge lake.

[Belinda Carlisle]

It's full of canals.

[Maureen]

I didn't know that.

[Carolina (Tour Guide)]

Yeah, we're on top of a lake.

[Maureen]

We are now. And how high are we, too? Because I don't think most people. I didn't know.

[Carolina (Tour Guide)]

2000, 2000 meters above, half again as high as Denver.

[Belinda Carlisle]

So it's a mile and a half high.

[Maureen]

Stop.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Yeah, it's.

[Maureen]

Belinda made me take. She suggested rather, that I take altitude pills before I got here, which I never would have known to do.

[Carolina (Tour Guide)]

I had no idea you could take altitude pills.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Oh, yeah. There's herbs. Yeah, there's herbs. They're not. They're not pharmaceutical, but I take them. I'm religious with it because altitude sickness here is.

[Maureen]

No, it's really bad. Even though you and Morgan have been here for, like, four and a half.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Years, Only when I travel and I come back, then I have to take them again.

[Maureen]

Oh, you have to re Acclimate to the altitude.

[Carolina (Tour Guide)]

But, for example, if you train over here and then you go to sea level.

[Maureen]

Yeah.

[Carolina (Tour Guide)]

Oh, my God. You are like, four hours in, we.

[Maureen]

Began to climb up one of them, and it was so slippery and dangerous. And I got to, like, stair seven. And I was like, I cannot go any further. And Belinda was like, I'm so glad you said that, because I don't want to go any further either. We descended those stairs, and we got down to terra firma. And then we decided. Belinda, as I said, she thinks of everything. Highly organized. You don't get to be that successful even if you're rock and roll. You need an inner, like, an inner orderly, like drill sergeant. And she's got one, Trust me. It's amazing. She was like Maureen. She had the tote bag, and she opened it up, she brought dry brushes. She again, inspired by the work of one. I mean, I use work in quotes, you know, of Tracee Ellis Ross. And, you know, we thought, what better place to dry brush in public? You know, I certainly wasn't gonna do it in on an airplane. I will go pretty far for the troublemakers, But I cannot do that to other people. Nor can I mortify myself in that way. But we thought dry brushing at the pyramids. Why not? Here we go. Totally normal. And if anybody comes by to stop us.

[Belinda Carlisle]

It's fine doing this in public, Especially.

[Maureen]

At a sacred site. Why not? What better time to exfoliate? I'm gonna get down into the depths with my fellow travelers. Here we go. Feels good. Have I ruined my spray tan at all? They said don't exfoliate. Dry brushing is my favorite thing. Can't get enough. I think the gods would approve. It's all self care. It's self care.

[Belinda Carlisle]

And we'll feel so good after.

[Maureen]

I know you're going up towards your heart, but.

[Belinda Carlisle]

But you're going away, huh?

[Maureen]

I'm going away. I'm taking my inspo from none other than Tracee Ellis. There's no place in the world you can't dry brush right after leaving our skin flakes. Over at ancient. We've been trying to conceive for a while, but my cycles are so irregular. My doctor doesn't listen, period. App doesn't help. We missed way too many chances, and I'm not guessing my way through 2026. So I got Mira. Mira tracks four key hormones with the same tech fertility labs use, but from home. It found my ovulation in minutes. Now I get clarity every morning, and I intend to keep it that way. And hey, for a very limited time, you can get an exclusive 25 off using code [e-mail] hey everyone, I wanted to jump in and tell you about Tom Holland's new non alcoholic beer, Beer O. Tom created Beer O because he wanted a non alcoholic beer focused on what went in, not what was left out. So he teamed up with brewmaster Grant Wood and created four standout beers, including Crisp Pills, Wheat and Bold IPA styles made with the best ingredients and no shortcuts. Exactly what you'd expect from your favorite beer. So grab a can and enjoy the rest of the show. Ruins we went over to the other side of this site, which was like, basically, you know, you feel like you're in Game of Thrones. It's like this ancient. It was basically like an open air market. And then there were these structures where wealthy, powerful families dwelled. I don't know if they would have been considered royalty, but you can only go so far inside of them in order to really keep them preserved. But what struck both she and I about this ancient, ancient structure, thousands and thousands of years old. It gets really hot in Mexico City. But they were engineered in such a way that the doors, the doorways, rather, there were no doors, but the doorways lined up in order to capture the direction in which cool air would flow through the house. And it was a kind of natural air conditioning. And it's one of the things I love most about travel. You realize, you know, we are living at the, at the height of human brain power and technology and we've been to space. I've been to space. Belinda has not. I'm still friends with her. It's fine. But you know, you travel and you see ancient ruins like this and you realize the ingenuity of humanity, of the human mind, the engineering capabilities and whatever they lacked in actual. I mean, they would probably consider what we do today by facetiming people all over the world like a form of teleportation. I definitely do, you know, or the idea that you could just fly somewhere and be on the other side of the world in 10 hours. It's wild. But anyway, you see stuff like this and it really just humbles you and it really, it just, it gives you a different way of looking at the world. And, you know, that's a main, main reason I love travel. It, you marvel at things and you awe at things, whether it's art or architecture, culture, nature, food, whatever it is, and you feel just so thankful to be part of it and to be there. And you also feel, like, really small, but in a good, healthy way. It's like, such a reminder. We're here for, like, the blink of an eye. Anyway, day two. Day two. When Belinda told me about this place, I was like, is this for real? Because we're going. We're going. It's called the island of the Dolls. And it is so sought after by. If. It's like one of those. If you know, you know, places to go. And it's so sought after that there are multiple fake islands of the dolls. There's only one real one, but it's like being in New York and, like, there's just, like, hustlers on the street going, like, hey, you know, want to buy a. You know, whatever. And to get there, you have to. You have to charter a boat. And these boats are, like, actually, like, they're. They're. They're. I mean, this not in an insulting way, but, like, in it. In a technical way. They're crude. They're just. They're made of wood. They're hand painted. They feel very homemade. I love them. They're. They're paddled. Like, these young men. They're not motorized. They. These young men paddle these things for miles and miles. And on each boat is like a long table. It's like a picnic table with, like, multicolored chairs. And some of these are. They're. They're. They're. They're hoax boats. You know, they take you so far, and then they're like, here's the island of the Dolls, and there's, like, one doll hanging. And you're like, no, this isn't it. Take me to the real one. And the first one we had was like, I can't do it. I can't do it. It's like there's like some sort of mafia running. This is just my supposition, just my own supposition, but it's very strange. And so we had to go all the way back, and then we had to get in a car, and then we had to drive, like, 30 minutes to another part of town in another boat launch. And they said they would be able to take us to the real island of the Dolls. And I wasn't so sure, but Belinda said, I have a really good feeling about this. And she was right. And so we began our second trip of the day. We knew we were gonna get back and it was gonna be dark on our boat ride back, which was also kind of really amazing. And so we start out, and before we know it, we're Just paddling along. This other boat starts paddling alongside of us. It catches up to us and then it ties itself to our boat. And there is like, there's an older couple, this boat, they're cooking, they're making authentic Mexican food and Mexican beer, which our amazing videographer Arturo downed in like one go. Like a man's man. Okay. This guy was incredible. Oh, that's really good. Very at the sweet. Oh, so good. He knew everybody. He knew everybody to talk to. Anyway, so they like feed you, they give you all this stuff, and then, like, you know, you pay them and then they untie themselves and off they go. Before you know it, they're gone. They're so good at what they do. And anyway, so we finally, finally alight on the island of the Dolls, and Belinda is going to explain the mythology surrounding this incredible place. We are in the canals just a.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Little bit outside the city. Pre Aztec canals.

[Maureen]

Pre Aztec canals. Belinda and her husband Morgan have been living here for four and a half years. They just got their permanent residency a few days ago. And we're here to show one tracee Ellis Ross, how it's done.

[Belinda Carlisle]

How it's really done.

[Maureen]

Yes. Belinda, do you want to tell the troublemakers where we are heading right now?

[Belinda Carlisle]

We're headed to the island of the Dolls via the Xochumico Museum, I believe. Island of the Dolls is. A lot of people don't know about it actually. Right.

[Maureen]

I didn't know about it until you told me.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Yeah, I've been there a few times. It's. There's a whole story. I want to get my story straight before I actually talk about it, but it's pretty spooky.

[Maureen]

In essence. It is an island full of dead dolls.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Yes.

[Maureen]

That are hanging everywhere.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Yes. I think the story is there was a. This is all farmland, like little farms, you know, growing fruits and vegetables, whatever. And there was a farmer and he saw the body of a young girl washed up on the shore of this island of the Dolls. And he put dolls everywhere to ward off the evil spirits. And that. I think that might have been in the 60s or 70s. And since then it's just been. He's. He had been adding dolls everywhere. Trees, bushes, fences everywhere. And I think he died the same way, actually. I think he drowned.

[Maureen]

He drowned, yeah.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Which is really spooky. Same. Same place where the girl's body was found. So a lot of people, you know, a lot of people won't go to this island because it's. They think it's cursed.

[Maureen]

But we're Going.

[Belinda Carlisle]

But we're gonna go, of course.

[Maureen]

Right? Unlike Tracee Ellis Rock, who would probably be touring us around her pool right now at her hotel. We're going to the island of the dead dolls. We have some surprises there that will await. And also the thing about this island is it's such a dark. There's dark tourism, right?

[Belinda Carlisle]

There is dark tourism that used to be that you could spend the night. That's what I heard. So that's what I was hoping to do with you. It would have been fun. But I don't think that's possible now for whatever reason. I wonder why.

[Maureen]

I do wonder why. But we're making a day trip out of it. There's a museum there.

[Belinda Carlisle]

There's a museum on the way to the island. There's this creature that's indigenous. It's endemic to just this region. What is it called? I forgot what it's called, but it's.

[Maureen]

The fish you showed me. It's a pink fish. We'll put in a photo for the troublemakers to see. It only exists here. That's our cameraman Arturo, who's about to ditch himself into the canal for getting the shot. He's a professional. But it's indigenous only here. You were saying?

[Belinda Carlisle]

Only here. And I can't decide whether it's cute or not.

[Maureen]

I think it's. I think it's ugly cute.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Yeah, it is.

[Maureen]

The French would call it what jolie led.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Yeah, I think that's a good. That's a good description actually. Yeah. Yeah. So we're gonna. In this little museum, I have the creature actually. So we'll be able to see that.

[Maureen]

We're gonna show it to you.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Other weird things, really weird things that they have there.

[Maureen]

Belinda is amazing because she's into as much weird, crazy, dark, interesting stuff as. As all of us. And this is going to be an incredible trip around a kind of Mexico City you have never seen. We can promise you that.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Exactly, exactly.

[Maureen]

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[Commercial Narrator]

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[Maureen]

This is a creepy little, little. It's a dollhouse to be sure. They're hanging from the rafters. Look at these guys. I, I almost find this. It's a little much for me. It's a little much. It's, it's great. It's a. It, it does feel a little much. It does feel a little overkill. And there is a commonality at work here besides them all being dolls is that they're all kind of filthy. I think they are in need of a good exfoliation and I'm Going to channel, forgive me, my inner tracee. Ellis Ross. I came prepared. I brought an appropriately sized brush. And I am going to exfoliate these dolls because they need it. This is not adequate skin care. Okay. Just saying. I'm doing what I can. I'm sacrificing my own skin health for the health of these dolls. Because we want the island of the Dead dolls to live forever. There we go.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Wow.

[Maureen]

Now with some raised pink. I had a little bit of a different reaction than you. So, okay, how was it for you? What was your experience?

[Belinda Carlisle]

This is the second time. It's always better the first time.

[Maureen]

True.

[Belinda Carlisle]

But I still think it's weird. And I think that there's something heavy about it.

[Maureen]

I was actually a little trepidatious because I thought, there's gonna be a lot of dark energy around this. A lot. And then we got in, and I saw the guy in his Megadeth shirt selling Le Booboo knockoffs for, like, 50 bucks. And, like, refrigerator magnets and keychains.

[Belinda Carlisle]

It kind of lightens it up a bit.

[Maureen]

Kind of like I was looking for a sticker for my Stowaway luggage so I could more easily identify it when I'm back at jfk. No luck. And then the other thing that struck me as strange is when we were leaving, I mean, there was some incredible stuff. And we captured, like, some incredible stuff. Yeah. That little girl who was saying goodbye to us, who must have been eight or nine. And I was thinking to myself, she's the heiress. She's the heiress to the island of the Dead dolls. Right. She's gonna go. If she goes out into the world, she's gonna have a legacy like nobody else she meets.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Yeah, that's true. And it's a big business. Well, I don't know how big a business, but it's a big business.

[Maureen]

They seem to do very well.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Yeah, I mean, it was for this time of evening and we're gonna be getting back when it's dark. So, you know, it's a bit strange. Most people like to see it in the daytime. I was thinking it's during the week, it's not the weekend. So. Yeah. Friday, there were, like, 10 people there.

[Maureen]

Yeah. Yeah. No, towards the end of the day, for sure. Yeah, it was. I would love to know more about the deaths of the little girl. How she washed up, the man who found her, how he wound up dying in the same exact spice.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Maureen]

And who's also contributing the dolls. Like, there. Okay. So this was the other thing for me. There's Some very inventive staging of the.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Dolls there is kind of funny.

[Maureen]

Yeah. Like I was saying, it feels like it's a competition. Like, how can you freak out visitors? Like you were comparing it to the Blair Witch Project.

[Belinda Carlisle]

I. Yeah, I wanted to get a Blair Witch Project shot in like one of the dark rooms, but it wasn't dark enough. Yeah, but. Which is like one of my favorite horror films. So. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely, you know, it's creepy. It's creepy, but it's kind of funny too.

[Maureen]

It's creepy, but it's kind of funny too. And I almost missed there was a wrapped in tarp. And what kind of tape would you call it?

[Belinda Carlisle]

Masking tape.

[Maureen]

Masking tape. Like a full size cadaver upside down, so. Oh, but there were a lot of. There was a little dog family living.

[Belinda Carlisle]

There that hadn't been washed in like 10 years.

[Maureen]

I should have brought the dry brush for the dogs for the last.

[Belinda Carlisle]

No, they were sweet. And it's just so odd to me that that family lives there on the. I mean, they live. Oh, they're down there. They live there on the island? Yeah, that little girl lives there.

[Maureen]

She lives there. She's gonna have some story.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Oh, totally.

[Maureen]

I would buy that.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Now, would you spend the night there if we had the chance?

[Maureen]

It would depend on the food and the latrine situation. That's just me. Yeah, I think you could tough it more so.

[Belinda Carlisle]

I mean, I've done pop tents, so I could probably do it. But you've done the Gates of Hell. I've done the Gates of Hell.

[Maureen]

You could do it. You could do it.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Yeah, I think so.

[Maureen]

All in all, like, incredibly worth it. This is one of the spots that I was most excited to see and Belinda had told me about. I had never heard of it before.

[Belinda Carlisle]

A lot of people don't know about it, which is weird. I think Mexicans know about it, but. Yeah, I mean, anybody outside of Mexico doesn't really know about it, so.

[Maureen]

So you having just gotten your permanent residency, you're your husband, there's a, there's a portmanteau, there's a. There's a word to apply to the white American who comes to Mexico.

[Belinda Carlisle]

I know, it's, it's, it's. I think it's more of a. There's white Mexicans, they're called wexicans. Right. Is that. That's not a derogatory thing, is it? No, no.

[Maureen]

It's even a joke.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Yeah. Oh, wet. So. So it's. It's white. Wexicans. But I'm. I mean, I aspire to be a Wexican or a Mexican. I mean, I love the culture here so much and the people.

[Maureen]

I know. It's so obvious. It's so obvious. You do love it.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Love it.

[Maureen]

Can I ask you Also totally shallow. We have to talk about your jacket and your scarf.

[Belinda Carlisle]

You really want to do.

[Maureen]

I really. I really. I'm serious.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Okay. Nili Lotan.

[Maureen]

When did you get this?

[Belinda Carlisle]

This is like years. Like four or five years.

[Maureen]

It's gorgeous.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Yeah. And her. Miss.

[Maureen]

Oh, it's so beautiful.

[Belinda Carlisle]

It is pretty how I got it as a present.

[Maureen]

Oh, it's beautiful. Thank you. Yeah. Belinda was definitely the most stylish visitor to the island of the Dead Dolls for sure.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Well. Well, you know, you're no slouch, so.

[Maureen]

Well, thanks.

[Belinda Carlisle]

The pearls.

[Maureen]

Oh, the pearls. Yeah, my graduated pearl choker, which I love. I got it on the realreal. I got it for, like, a couple hundred bucks.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Really beautiful.

[Maureen]

Yeah, I love it. So I guess that concludes it. Oh, and if we see any more herons, we have to show that the herons work.

[Belinda Carlisle]

The sun is just going down.

[Maureen]

The sun is going down over there. It's gorgeous. The light is beautiful. This is one of the most peaceful.

[Belinda Carlisle]

You know something, I'm so glad that it was a big, you know, mess today because it wouldn't have had this light. And it's so gorgeous and serene here.

[Maureen]

It's so true. It's sort of one of those things to always remember when you're traveling that, like, even the things that sort of mess up your plan or your agenda for the day can really actually turn out to be, like, the greatest. Like, we have this beautiful light, this quiet. We're surrounded by animals like wild birds, cows, ducks. It's so peaceful and quiet, and we have it all. We just lucked out. We've really lucked out. This is such a. A beautiful. It's hard to believe this is part of Mexico City.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Yeah, yeah, it's part of the city.

[Maureen]

Imagine if this were part of, like, somewhere in the middle of New York City. You just wouldn't believe it. It's just. What a magical place this is.

[Belinda Carlisle]

It really is ancient. Ancient, Ancient.

[Maureen]

Well, hopefully the good spirits are with us now. One of Belinda's travel philosophies, and I never really thought about it this way, but I really do love it, is that if you are looking to go to see or experience any given site in any given city or country, try to get there before the prime tourist hours kick in and actually this was before I ever knew her. I took a solo trip to Greece a couple of years ago. And I love to travel alone. There are many reasons and we can get into it later, but it was absolutely. Actually, I planned it as a real reward to myself. I had been through something and it was a reward to myself. And that was how I approached the Acropolis, which I saved as like the jewel of my trip, like the end note of my trip. And I made sure to go there long before it was going to be overrun by tourists. I went very early in the morning. And this is why I don't even think I really could have ever articulated this. But Belinda really believes, and I think there's real truth to this, that when a place is just mobbed by tourists, it actually kind of interferes with like the energy exchange. That like, you're on a site that has seen a lot where people have lived, people have died, where significant consequential things have happened, where you're really going to feel something. And there were a few other places on our trip to Mexico City where both of us were surprised at the emotional and intellectual reactions that we had. And so Belinda, you know her, she was like, I don't think I can engage in dry brushing on island of the Dolls. And I was like, fair enough, fair enough. You know, I totally get it. But then, and I worried, I was like, will, Will this. You know, like, we tried to tell them, like, we're not. We're. Every place we went was sort of like, we're filming a show and nothing we're doing is meant in any way to mock your culture or your site or your business or anything. Like, this is, this is. We're mocking one person and one person alone. And we all know who that is. But this place was wild too, because it was run by this like middle aged guy who was like in a Megadeth T shirt and like operating a fully stocked bar on island of the Dolls. And when we left, there was like this little girl who is clearly their daughter who, who like, would. Was just there, like watching people come on and come off boats. And I remember thinking like, God, like, what a story this kid is going to have when she grows up. Like if like she's like the Heiress, like to the island of the Dolls, like, what a childhood she's having. It's wild, right? It's wild. So anyway, day two, island of the Dolls. And we come back at night and it's dark on this paddle boat and it's quiet and this is one of the things that really struck me as very poignant. This area, the natural beauty is just incredible. These canals that we were on, you know, it's waterfront property now in America or a first world country, you think waterfront property, like, that's where rich people live. That's like where really well to do people have their second homes? And it wasn't like that there. Like, these were farms with like maybe a few cows or homes that were. Some were shanties. Some. Some were real just shanties. Others were homes that were well built but were run down and like the vegetation was like overgrown and it wasn't really landscaped. And when we were coming back, a huge family, like an extended family was boarding their boat, like it was like their party boat. And it was a version of the boat that we were on, except it had. There were no sides to it. It was basically like a huge, huge flat piece of plywood almost with someone paddling it. And everybody piled in, like, the older people, the parents, the little kids. It was somebody's birthday. They were having a party on this boat. And you know, again, this is one of the things I love about travel. You look at these people and you're like, wow. Like, this is. This is real poverty. And they were happy. They were so happy. They were having a celebration. They're on the water. They have a house on the water. You know, they had everything they needed. They have a huge birthday celebration surrounded by everybody they love and they're going out and they're doing their. Like, it was just. It was such an incredible way to cap the day. And, you know, we were like. It just left us all, like, energized and with a really, really. Just in a really great head space to go into day three, which was an incredible, incredible day. And we began at a place that Belinda had never been. I thought she would have. I had never been. And I'm wearing my T shirt that I got there. It's Frida Kahlo. We went to the Frida Kahlo Museum and I'll tell you all about that and show you some incredible stuff. And by the way, you'll only see it at the Nerve because you can't take photos or videos inside the Frida Kahlo Museum and they made an exception for us.

[Commercial Narrator]

So.

[Maureen]

So this is really incredible stuff. We're on a mission now. We're on a mission because, you know, our template, if our template is solo traveling. Is that what it was called with Tracee Ellis Ross? We have to go buy the kinds of Souvenirs that someone like Tracee Ellis Ross would buy because there was the attempt to buy olive oil. Oh, and in Morocco, you know what? Tracy Ellis Ross went to buy a Moroccan rug. You know, she's like. She's not a really original thinker, you know, Like, I like to go places and bring back things that, like, aren't obvious, but, like, I will always remind me of my time there and what I experienced. So Belinda and I were like, okay, we have to change our mindset now. Like, for real. We have to change it. And we have to go buy souvenirs that Tracee Ellis Ross would buy if she deigned to come to Mexico City. We heard there's a season two. I mean, Tracy, why don't you follow our lead? Okay. So anyway, we were like, we need sombreros. And not only do we need sombreros, we need some really colorful big ones that are going to be almost obnoxious. Then we need to buy some stuff that would be, like, stereotypically insulting, like maracas and instruments so that we could, like, go and loudly perform outdoors, you know? So we went to a beautiful rooftop in Mexico City and we. I didn't see this one coming. This was totally Belinda's idea. And if you had told me at any point in my life that I someday would be on a rooftop with Belinda Carlisle having the courage to sing we got the beat with her, I would have told you you were nuts. But we did it. And we. I gave a very special shout out to our inspo. Here we go. You guys aren't going to believe it, but Belinda and I managed to source artisanal, indigenous, made in Mexico sombreros.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Look at the color.

[Maureen]

Look at the colors. Belinda. Can you believe it? Okay? And then, not only that, we found real maracas. We're really adventurous, okay?

[Belinda Carlisle]

We really explored.

[Maureen]

Also we've got some genuine Mexican instrumentes.

[Belinda Carlisle]

Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Maureen]

Here we go.

[Belinda Carlisle]

We got the beat.

[Maureen]

Oh, my God. I love it, I love it, I love it. Here we go.

[Belinda Carlisle]

See the people walking down the street Falling lines and spots and all their feet. Oh, I forgot the words. I should know it.

[Maureen]

Jump back, hit ground Round and round and round. We got the beat. We got the beat. We got the beat. Suck it, Tracy Ellis Ross try to do that with a real go go. The new year is just around the corner, as we know. But there is no space in my life. This is true for punishing resolutions. I don't believe in resolutions, okay? I prefer to focus on the positives. So self care. Is a major positive. And I love Oso One Body Lotion. It is great for everything. Whether you have like a little bit of crepiness on your neck or your upper arms. It's going to help really, really ameliorate all of that stuff. I mean, I love it. My skin feels denser. It gets like a sort of bouncy feel. And what makes one skin different is the science. At the core is their patented, patented, excuse me, OS01 peptide. The first ingredient proven to target senescent cells, which are the root cause of wrinkles, creepiness and loss of elasticity, which are all key signs of skin aging. These results have been validated in five different clinical studies. Certified safe for sensitive skin. Once skin products are full free from over 1500 harsh or irritating ingredients. Dermatologists tested and has been awarded the National Eczema Association Seal of Acceptance by the nea, delivering powerful results without irritation for a limited time. One Skin is making it even easier to stay consistent with up to 30% off your first three subscription orders when you use code NERVE at OneSkin Co NERVE, that's up to 30 off with code NERVE. After you purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please tell them you are a troublemaker and the nerve sent you.

[Commercial Narrator]

$1.1 billion in federal funding for public media has been eliminated, a decision that could mean fewer local reporters, fewer stories that connect us, and fewer journalists holding power to account as the NPR network enters a new chapter. Your support is critical. Your donation today can make a difference. Donate by visiting donate.NPR.org. This is a 30 second ad. In just 30 seconds, there are likely to be an average of over 30,000 cyber threats to all businesses. Since I've been talking, more than 10,000 likely just happened. Hey, cyber threats don't wait and neither should you. With advanced security solutions, Comcast Business can help keep your network and data secure and your business reliably up and running. Get threat ready with Comcast Business. Learn [e-mail] cybersecurity.