The Nerve's Hair-Raising Halloween Special: Chilling Tales, Ghostly Guests, and Spiritual Connections

Summary

The Nerve with Maureen Callahan

Episode: The Nerve's Hair-Raising Halloween Special: Chilling Tales, Ghostly Guests, and Spiritual Connections

Date: October 31, 2025

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Episode Overview

This Halloween special of The Nerve dives headfirst into all things supernatural. Host Maureen Callahan brings her signature blend of humor, skepticism, and sharp cultural commentary to a packed episode featuring real-life ghost stories, chilling listener emails, a fascinating true crime case from “Unsolved Mysteries,” and an illuminating interview with acclaimed photographer and spirituality expert Shannon Taggart. The conversation explores personal encounters with spirits, the concept of "the gift," and the cultural taboos around the paranormal, making a space for skeptics and believers alike.

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Key Segments & Discussion Highlights

1. Family Ghost Stories with “Bill from Brooklyn”

[06:14] – [24:19]

Maureen welcomes her brother, “Bill from Brooklyn,” to share eerie, personal stories of living with a ghost named “Lorraine” in their former home.

Highlights:

• Unexplained Activity:
  • Loud, repetitive footsteps resembling a “200-pound man” (08:32).
  • A radio turning on unexpectedly, a swinging chandelier with no physical cause (09:37).
• Ghost’s Identity & Backstory:
  • Discovery that a previous resident, Lorraine, died young after battling cancer while her husband had an affair, possibly causing her spirit to linger searching for her family (10:12).
  • Children’s height measurements, left on a closet wall, tied to suspected paths of the ghost’s haunting (12:10).
• Coping & Acceptance:
  • Attempts at rationalization, gradual acceptance of an unseen presence, regular burning of sage, and a ritualized backward entry into a new home to avoid bringing the spirit along (13:52, 14:29).
• Personal Reflections:
  • “I never felt as though I was in danger... But I never felt like the clown was in a room with me.” (13:13, Bill)
  • “Talking to my wife before we came on the show today, she told me... the closet had all of her kids’ names and heights, and she never painted over it.” (12:10, Bill)

Memorable Quote:

• “Unless you actually experience it, it's a little bit different to live it and experience it.” – Bill [07:39]

The Mysterious Envelope – A Sign from Beyond?

Timestamps: [16:53] – [23:32]

• After their father’s passing, Bill finds a mysteriously placed envelope labeled “Bill for the house” in their temporary office, written in their father's distinctive handwriting, days after agonizing over using his inheritance to buy a new home.
• Family interprets this as a clear sign from the afterlife offering approval and support.

QUOTE:

• “It was probably 5:30 in the morning. I looked at it and I just, I never looked back. I said, this is what he wants... He wants us to live our lives for the moment and be happy.” – Bill [21:15]

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2. Listener Emails: True Paranormal Encounters

[37:21] – [48:18]

Listeners share visceral, personal stories that echo Bill’s experiences and further the episode’s exploration of the paranormal:

• Beverly’s Premonitions: Powerful dreams foreseeing family accidents and her brother’s death in 1983, after which her premonitions stopped.
• Montana Troublemaker: Encounters with the recently deceased, including an apparition who gave specific instructions to look after her children, and mysterious “signs” sent by her deceased mother.
• West Virginia Troublemaker: Remarkable rainbows witnessed en route to a brother’s funeral, which felt like a supernatural send-off.
• Stephanie from Illinois: Repeated visions and presences in her historic childhood home, including spectral reflections and unexplained phenomena.

NOTABLE MOMENT:

• Maureen connects the stories to the episode’s themes: “Those we picked because they just dovetailed so incredibly with what Bill was talking about, with the subject we have coming up later of a young girl who was visited by two men who died long before she was ever born.” [46:32]

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3. The Case of Heidi Wyrick – Ghostly Encounters from “Unsolved Mysteries”

[49:07] – [73:32]

Heidi’s Childhood Hauntings

• At four years old, Heidi moves to Ellersley, Georgia, and is soon visited by ghostly figures, “Khan” and “Mr. Gordy”—both men who had died years before her birth.

Key Story Beats:

• Heidi’s Descriptions:
  • “He had white hair, and... a T shirt on with blood all over it, and he had a bandage on his hand.” (52:31)
• Parental Reaction:
  • Initial fear and suspicion of a real-world threat, investigations yielding nothing (53:05).
• Confirmation:
  • Verification that “Mr. Gordy” existed through public records and a photograph lineup, where Heidi accurately identifies him (65:47; 68:54).

Expert Reflection and Discussion with Shannon Taggart

• Interview:
  • Photographer and paranormal expert Shannon Taggart analyses the case, exploring cultural patterns and scientific theories about why children, especially girls, report supernatural encounters.
  • Discussion covers liminality, emotional upheaval as a trigger, and the cultural stigmas around psychic “gifts.”
• Key Insights:
  • “Imaginary friends are often not imaginary friends... it’s contact with the spirit world.” (58:20, Taggart)
  • “The mind plays a part in how the unknown appears to you… emotions or mind shape it.” (64:28, Taggart)

Memorable Quotes:

• “If you are a deep, deep skeptic... I defy you to watch this and go through this discussion with me and our guest and then come out the other side without your mind being a little bit altered, in a good way.” – Maureen [49:20]
• “I did notice several times [Heidi] makes the point that she’s not afraid, and she discerns between good spirits and bad spirits. Many of the mediums I’ve met, it becomes completely normal.” – Shannon Taggart [67:37]

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4. Halloween Hijinks & Pop Culture Lampooning

[24:19] – [37:18]

Balances the heavy and spectral with levity:

• Maureen, producer Marlena, and guests banter about:
  • Halloween set design and props—satirical takes on celebrities like Greta Thunberg, Sarah Jessica Parker, Kim Kardashian, and Meghan Markle.
  • A DIY review of Kim Kardashian's headline-grabbing faux merkin underwear (“the Skims Reaper kills this because it could be made at home!” [35:27]).
  • The inner workings and brainstorming behind “offender” props and show traditions.

“No detail was spared. This wig is flammable, I’ll tell you that.” – Maureen [24:03]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Unless you actually experience it, it's a little bit different to live it and experience it.” – Bill [07:39]
• “He wants us to live our lives for the moment and be happy with what we have and not worry about things that we worry about every day, like life's too short for it.” – Bill [21:15]
• “Imaginary friends are often not imaginary friends. It’s contact with the spirit world.” – Shannon Taggart [58:20]
• “There are moments in the episode where she gets made fun of... So I think in our culture it's kind of cleansed out or people are less apt to embrace it or even talk about it.” – Taggart [71:27]
• “I did notice several times she makes the point that she’s not afraid, and she discerns between good spirits and bad spirits.” – Taggart [67:37]
• Maureen, on Heidi's story:
  “That episode has always stayed with me because I just don’t know how you describe that as anything else but a gifted child seeing two souls who departed.” [73:01]

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Key Timestamps

• [06:14] – Bill recounts meeting the haunting spirit Lorraine
• [08:32] – “Like a 200-pound man” footsteps
• [09:37] – Radio turns on, chandelier swings
• [14:29] – Rituals: burning sage, walking backward into a new home
• [16:53] – The envelope from Dad: “Bill for the house”
• [21:15] – Bill interprets the “sign”
• [37:21] – Maureen reads listeners’ paranormal emails
• [49:07] – Unsolved Mysteries case of Heidi Wyrick introduced
• [65:47] – Heidi correctly identifies Mr. Gordy from a photo
• [67:37] – Shannon Taggart discusses comfort with “the gift”
• [73:32] – Closing comments and Halloween wrap-up

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Tone & Takeaway

Throughout the episode, Maureen Callahan maintains a balance of skepticism, wonder, and humor, providing a safe space for stories both spine-tingling and transformative. Listeners are encouraged to keep an open mind—whether you’re a believer or a skeptic, these tales invite you to question the boundaries between the living and the unknown.

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For More:
Subscribe to the Nerve Substack for behind-the-scenes, merch, and community: thenerveshow.substack.com
Send your own stories to Maureen via email or Instagram.

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Happy Halloween. Stay curious, and remember: at The Nerve, there’s always room for another story in the RIP Woodshed.

Transcript

[NYQUIL Advertiser]

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[Bill from Brooklyn]

Yeah, Dad, I think we should.

[Maureen Callahan]

Helping those closest to you think about their excessive drinking.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Maybe that's what love sounds like.

[NYQUIL Advertiser]

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[Maureen Callahan]

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[Marlena (Producer)]

And I just think there really is a lot of value to when you anchor into your own knowing. Well, I think year one for any.

[Nikki and Bri]

Founder is just a lot of learns.

[Maureen Callahan]

Hello and welcome to your Halloween edition of the Nerve. I am your host, Maureen Callahan and we are so, so excited for the show we have for you today. And as you can see, I am joined by some of our favorite repeat offenders and we're going to get into exactly who some of them are if you can't recognize them right away with our forthcoming guest, Bill from Brooklyn, who has a couple of One ghost story to tell. Well, it's about one ghost, but it's many stories. And then we have a shared story involving our father. It really it happened to him, but we're gonna go through it together and it's wild. And trust me, again, if you are a skeptic and there's room for everybody in the Nerve in our RIP Woodshed right here, there's room for everyone. But I'm gonna say when you hear someone like Bill, who you know, he's my brother, I adore him. He is a tough New York guy with a thick New York accent who has seen a lot of shit in his life, okay? He works in the Bronx, New York. When you hear these stories come out of a mouth like that, with an accent like this, you'll take heed, trust me. We also asked you guys to share your stories with us specifically involving paranormal encounters or if you are someone who has what we all call the gift. As always, you delivered. These emails are incredible. I cannot wait to share them with you. And we're also going to talk about a case that's haunted me since the first time I saw it, and this is well over 20 years ago. This case first aired on Unsolved Mysteries. And if you know, you know. Unsolved Mysteries shaped generations of us. I consider myself among them. This was the case of a four year old girl named Heidi who, well before the Internet in the late 1980s in a small town in Georgia, reported years of experiences talking to, playing with and communing with two dead adults who had passed long before she was ever born. Are you ready? Are you ready for this thriller of a show? Let's go. Are you accidentally turning healthy fruits into unhealthy ones? It's more common than you might think. Fruit can be great for digestion, reducing bloating, and even supporting weight loss. But many Americans make one big mistake that cancels out those benefits. Some fruits may actually harm your energy levels and digestion. But world renowned heart surgeon Dr. Stephen Gundry has created a video discussing three fruits to avoid, and it is shocking. You can watch it [e-mail] nerve. That's thehealthyfat.com nerve or go to the video link in the description below. Dr. Gundry lost 70 pounds and has kept it off for over 20 years using this approach. His digestive issues are gone and he says he feels better than he did in his 40s. More than 20 million people have watched his free presentation. Don't miss it. He explains exactly what to avoid and what to eat instead. Watch it [e-mail] nerve or clink. Click the link below. It could change the way you eat and feel forever. We are back and I am so excited you guys have been asking for him and here he is. Bill from Brooklyn is on our Halloween episode of the Nerve. All you ladies out there who keep writing in saying Bill from Brooklyn is very attractive. Is he taken? Yes, he is. Okay. And his wife is a Halloween freak. But I wanted Bill on today because he has really influenced my thinking. We were both raised Catholic. I grew up much more of a skeptic and sort of, I don't know, leaning more towards rational explanations, logical explanations. Bill has changed my thinking immensely. And this came from him telling me years ago, and I was really surprised to hear it, that he and his wife, who had previously lived in a smaller house than they live in now, had in fact been for those years in that house living with someone they did not know was there.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Yeah. First, thank you for having me back. You look fantastic.

[Maureen Callahan]

Well, thank you. Do you see our VIP guest behind you is Greta Thunberg oh my God. But no one on this team would dare order a Keffey on Amazon. They didn't want that in the algorithm. So she's wrapped in some sort of loser winter scarf. That's Sarah Jessica Parker, our favorite 900 year old sprightly heroine wearing Teddy Van Halen's SJP hat. Those are the ghosts of JLo's weddings. And then over here is Violet Affleck, masked up. We got her from the un.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Oh my God.

[Maureen Callahan]

Okay.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Anyway, so, yeah, I mean, I came to find out after I moved into the house.

[Maureen Callahan]

Which was When? What year?

[Bill from Brooklyn]

12. 2012.

[Maureen Callahan]

2012. Okay.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

My wife had previously owned the house.

[Maureen Callahan]

And you were not married yet, you had moved in.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

I moved in, but there was, I guess a spirit, so to say, that lived there with us. That initially when I moved in, she didn't really make herself known to me. But then as time wore on, you know, you would hear footsteps.

[Maureen Callahan]

Now let me ask you before you get into the manifestations, Laurie, your wife, did she tell you there was a spirit in the house or did she leave that for you to discover? And we love Laura.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

I don't, I don't remember that actually being told up front. To me, I think I found that one out. I could be wrong, but I don't necessarily remember it. I also don't know that I would have believed it really, if she told me that. That. Yeah, I don't know that. Even if I'm on the other end of this show, I don't know that I would believe what I'm saying. Unless you actually experience it, it's a little bit different to live it and experience it.

[Maureen Callahan]

And when I set this up, it saying that you guys lived in a smaller home because it's not. These are not the kind of noises one could attribute to say, somebody being in another room far away on the other side of the house. You know, where everybody is in this house.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Yeah, 100%. I mean, we would be. We would be in the living room watching tv and you would hear the footsteps upstairs.

[Maureen Callahan]

How loud were the footsteps?

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Like a 200 pound man was walking back and forth. Really wanted to make itself known. And at first it was, you know, you try to explain it off as something else.

[Maureen Callahan]

What would you explain it away as?

[Bill from Brooklyn]

I mean, you're trying to look for something logical, right? Like the house is settling. It's just something happening. Maybe something on the roof, wind, whatever. But when you just hear it consistently back and forth and then some of the other things. One night my wife and I were the only two in the house. And we're in the kitchen, standing by the counter, just like this, having a conversation this way. And there's a radio right next to us. And the radio just turned on. It just started playing music out of nowhere. And we both kind of just stood there for a second and we're like, whoa, this is, this is a little different. That was a little scary. There was another night, we were having dinner, us and the kids were having dinner around the table. And we looked up and chandelier, small chandelier above the table. And it was just swaying.

[Maureen Callahan]

It was rocking back and forth like, like widely. Not like just sort of a little.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Like, like probably 3 inch swing each way. It was moving. It was.

[Maureen Callahan]

And nothing else in the house was moving or shaking or anything.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

No truck down the street, nothing shook. The floor didn't rattle. We just looked up in the house. The light, I forget who saw it first, but the light was white. It was, it was scary.

[Maureen Callahan]

So at what point did you start asking your neighbors if they had any knowledge of a potential spirit in your home?

[Bill from Brooklyn]

So my wife asked the neighbors about who previously lived there and came to find out that there was a younger couple that lived there, husband and wife, two kids. And the wife had cancer and she ultimately passed, late 20s, early 30s. But the real kicker of it was that the husband apparently was having an affair the whole time. The wife was in her battle with cancer. And that's kind of where we feel like this spirit in Lorraine is what her name was. And we used to talk to her. When we would hear her or when the radio went on, we'd say, it's okay, Lorraine, just we're not here to harm you, Please don't harm us. But we kind of felt like she was stuck. She was stuck looking for her family. And my wife also found out that after she had passed, the husband immediately moved away with the kids and his girlfriend and got remarried and to the girlfriends. So I don't know. I mean, that's the only thing that really makes sense with it. Like there was so many different things that took place in that house that I probably forgot more than I remember of it, but it was just kind of a regular occurrence. Talking to my wife before we came on the show today, she told me, I never even knew this, but there was one of the closets had all of her kids names, their heights and names really, and she never painted over it. Yeah, she left it there, so. And then we kind of were just briefly talking about it and we're wondering if the footsteps we would hear upstairs were going back and forth between the stairs and that bedroom where those heights were listed on the walls.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, they were listed in a closet. In a bedroom closet.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

In bedroom closet. Door jam. Yeah. So you would see the progression of height as they. As they grew.

[Maureen Callahan]

At what point, if there ever was a point, did you stop being afraid of the ghost and sort of feeling like the ghost was comfortably as best as she could living with you because you had a baby in that house at one point?

[Bill from Brooklyn]

I don't know that I ever was fully comfortable. Once I realized. Once I accepted or felt like I accepted what was there, I don't know that it was really comfortable. I never felt like I was in imminent danger. There were times I felt spooked, definitely, and I was concerned of the radio turning on. That's a very, very strange thing to happen. The footsteps. It's concerning. But I never felt as though I was in danger. I never felt. We joke about Poltergeist all the time. Still afraid of that movie. I never felt like the clown was in a room with me.

[Maureen Callahan]

Well, the clown really got you. Poltergeist. I think if Poltergeist had excised the clown, if the clown had not made Final Cut, you might feel a little bit differently about Poltergeist.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

I think if you didn't show that to me at 5 years old, that.

[Maureen Callahan]

Would probably blame HBO. Blame basic cable showing that during the day, every day in the summer of, what, 84, 82, whatever it was. Yeah. So the other thing I wonder, too, is, you know, when you're hearing the footsteps, because I've had my own brush with this stuff. Did you. Did you ever feel like, I'm going upstairs now, I'm gonna go see if she's up there, or would you just wait it out?

[Bill from Brooklyn]

There was definitely once or twice I went upstairs thinking that somebody had broken into the house.

[Maureen Callahan]

Are you serious?

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Yeah. Like the footsteps were that loud that there were times I went up and checked because I thought, somebody's in the house, and I had to go confront them. And then there was no one there.

[Maureen Callahan]

And what was the feeling like, would you. Would your heart be in your stomach? Like, what was.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Yeah, I mean, you think you're going up to have a fight and you get up there and there's nothing there, and it's just you trying to explain something that's really unexplainable.

[Maureen Callahan]

Did you guys ever consider having a priest come or some kind of exorcist?

[Bill from Brooklyn]

So we talked about it. My wife actually had a. She talked to a friend who was very into spirit, I guess, aspects of life. And she suggested to us to burn sage in the house. So we started doing that on a regular basis. And then when we moved, we were actually instructed by that friend when we walked into the new house that we had to walk in backwards. Really, walking in backwards would not allow that spirit to follow you into your new home. So when I walked into her new home, when we moved, I walked into our new home. I walked in backwards just to play it safe.

[Maureen Callahan]

Wow.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Might sound crazy.

[Maureen Callahan]

I think Lorraine has. Well, she's. She's with others now.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

I don't. I don't. I don't think I. I don't think there was ever. Looking back on it now at the time, I don't think there was ever harm intended. I think it was just. You know, I've done a little bit of reading on it, not a lot. And I think it was just kind of stuck in the middle of, you know, her life ended in a way. She didn't want cancer and her family life and her husband and everything.

[Maureen Callahan]

The betrayal.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Just kind of stuck in that purgatory of not knowing where to go, just not knowing if she should move on to the afterlife or.

[Maureen Callahan]

Do you think I'll leave it at this because we have one other incident to get to, but do you think that she was. Perhaps she thought she was haunting her husband and children or haunting the husband and the new wife and didn't realize who was in the house.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

You know what? That's a really good point. I never thought of it. I never felt that scared that I was like, okay, we got to get out of the house tonight. Like, I never had that. Even with the radio turning on, with the chandelier swaying, looking back, it just dawned on me now. I did fall down the stairs in that house one night.

[Maureen Callahan]

You did?

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Yeah. I went down a full flight of stairs, landed on my head. I laid on the floor for 15 minutes before I could get up. First time I've thought about that one, so. Thank you.

[Maureen Callahan]

Do you think Lorraine pushed you?

[Bill from Brooklyn]

No, I don't.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

I think it was my own stupidity. But as we're having this conversation, I never got hurt. But then, yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, you did get. Maybe Lorraine was looking out for you. You know, that could have been a lot worse.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Yeah, could be.

[Maureen Callahan]

Could be. So I want to get to the other one. This other incident, or I shouldn't call it an incident. That's not. That's too small of a word when you Talked to me about this and then showed me the photo. Like my jaw dropped. So. Our father died about a year and a half ago. And with the money that you and I were left, you and your wife embarked on the purchase of a home in an area that was very sentimental to our dad, where he summered every summer. And there was anxiety. As with any big purchase, I think all of us feel that you feel anxiety even when you know you're doing a good thing. And you were in the midst of getting close to the close. You were working somewhere completely foreign to you. I'm gonna give it to you. You tell the story.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Yeah. So your dad died early January.

[Maureen Callahan]

January 6th. Yeah, we think it was deliberate. Go on.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Um, so every year I take the same vacation. The week into Labor Day, um, I get a call that labor, two, three days before I'm due back from my boss saying, hey, don't go to your regular site. I need you to come someplace else. You're going to work from here for a little while. We're a little busy, so. Went to report it to a new site. Was working there for two months. It was, it was a busy time. We were working 12, 14 hour days.

[Maureen Callahan]

Now you're a supervisor, you're overseeing everything. And the way you described your workspace to me was, you had a fold out table.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Yeah. We had just moved into this building, this property, and we were operating out of a single trailer with no desks. It was a four foot Home Depot table with a folding chair that we would lay our laptops on and work over there.

[Maureen Callahan]

And every night you cleaned it. I know you, you're very meticulous. You leave everything cleaner than when you found it. You would clean it. There would not be. You would not leave anything behind. Not straight piece of paper, nothing. And you would take your laptop and off you go for the night.

[NYQUIL Advertiser]

Right.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

And you know, so the important part of it to me, looking back at it, was where I was working. I had nothing. I never even went back to my original office. The only thing I had with me from my vacation was my. My bag that I carry my laptop in.

[Maureen Callahan]

So you went straight from your vacation to this new job site. You never even went back to your office or anything. That was it. Okay.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

That was it. So one morning I get into work and this was the night prior. My wife and I were. Laura and I were talking about, should we do this? Should we not do this? Is it the right thing to do?

[Maureen Callahan]

Buy this house?

[NYQUIL Advertiser]

Right?

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Buy this house? Is it, you know, should we, should we put the money away for education, for kids, all these different things that you're worried about and just anybody would be worried about it.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, it's a very anxiety inducing thing, buying a home and taking on all this debt and. Yes, yes. So go on.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

So the following morning, I walk into the trailer, I put my bag down and I'm exhausted from just the amount of time we've been working. And there's an envelope on this four foot folding table.

[Maureen Callahan]

We're gonna show the envelope too.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Yeah. So I pick up the envelope and I look at it and it's dad's.

[Maureen Callahan]

Handwriting, which is very distinctive handwriting.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Yeah. And I mean, I know, I know the origins, I know where the envelope came from. You know, towards. Towards the end with him, he was having trouble writing out all the checks and taking care of all of his, you know, paying all the bills. So he would leave me a single check and say, hey, can you write out all the checks for all the bills for me? So it's not that this envelope just appeared out of thin air, but it kind of like he was gone for probably nine, 10 months at the time.

[Maureen Callahan]

And by the way, as you noted, the way we sort of date the writings that he left behind is based on the steadiness of the penmanship. Towards the last nine months of his life, maybe year, it was incredibly shaky penmanship. That penmanship is not that strong. Robust penmanship, which I also think symbolically is important in terms of a message delivered.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Yeah, no, 100%.

[Maureen Callahan]

The outside of the envelope read said.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Bill for the house. And I read that and it was. I mean, it was probably 5:30 in the morning. And I looked at it and I just, I never looked back. I said, this is what he wants. He wants us to do this. He wants us to live our lives for the moment and be happy with what we have and not worry about things that we worry about every day, like life's too short for it. So I sent a picture to my wife, I sent a picture to you, and everybody kind of had the same reaction. Like, how the hell did that get there?

[Maureen Callahan]

And to me, the remarkable thing about it, the thing that puts it over the edge for me, is that it went to the very specific thing you had been worried about and agonizing over for weeks, if not months. And you and I have talked about this, that, you know, it was difficult with him towards the end in many ways. But since his death, you and I have both had absolute either signs or just undeniable outside feelings that he is always pushing us towards the best. All of the things that he wouldn't maybe allow for himself when he was alive and that it's all about good things and never feeling bad or guilty about realizing any sort of thing you might want. Like that house in that town that meant so much to him in New Jersey.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Yeah. Yeah. It's not. I look back on it and I never. I don't sit there and not someone thinks, oh, I'm communicating with them on a daily basis. But it's like sometimes you just, you know, you feel the energy.

[Maureen Callahan]

You feel they're there.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

You feel the energy. You feel that, you know, it's okay.

[Maureen Callahan]

Did you. My suggestion was to frame the envelope and put it somewhere in the house.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

So I still have it. I still have it in a drawer. I haven't decided what to do with it. I don't know. It belongs somewhere. I just don't know where it belongs yet.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, well, maybe he'll leave another note. You never know. He loved to write.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Definitely does.

[Maureen Callahan]

Thank you, Bill. Thanks for coming on the Nerve.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

I had no expectation of your.

[Maureen Callahan]

I like to surprise.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

I expected something more along the nights of the Emmy show. But this is impressive.

[Maureen Callahan]

We're upgrading in our young life. Do you appreciate, by the way, prop master Emily did the wig, did all of our favorite offenders in the wig. Did you note that behind psycho arsonist Ryan Reynolds and his equally loathsome white wife Blake is a Bic lighter?

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Oh, my God.

[Maureen Callahan]

And it's a real Bic lighter.

[Marlena (Producer)]

Yeah.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

That's impressive.

[Maureen Callahan]

No detail was spared. This wig is flammable, I'll tell you that. 14 bucks on Amazon, so see how long we go with it. Anyway, thank you, Bill, for taking time out of your very busy day to come celebrate with us cretins over here on the Nerve.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Thank you for having me. It's great to be here.

[Maureen Callahan]

Coming up, troublemaker emails. Back in a minute. Did you know that all chips and fries used to be cooked in tallow up until the 1990s? That's when Big corporations switched to cheaper processed seed oils. And today, seed oils make up to 20% of the average American's daily calories. Recent studies have linked seed oils to metabolic health issues and inflammation in the body. But luckily, there is an alternative. Masa chips. Masa created a healthy and delicious chip and they did it with just three ingredients. Organic corn, sea salt and 100% grass fed beef tallow. No seed oils. These chips taste incredible. I love them. They are crunchier and sturdier than other chips. Plus, masa chips will leave you satisfied, light and energetic. They come in a variety of flavors. My favorite is the original, but there's also white, blue, lime, carbonaro and churro. They're all so good. If you are ready to give Masa a try, go to masachips.com maureen and use code MAUREEN for 25% off your first order. That's masachips.com maureen. Code MAUREEN for 25% OFF your first order. And if you prefer, shopping in person, no problem. This month, Masa began making itself available nationwide at your local sprouts supermarket. So stop by and grab a bag or two or three before they're gone.

[Nikki and Bri]

Hey, everyone, it's Nikki and Bri. And we're here to let you know that we have a podcast, the Nikki and Bri Show. Yes. And we've got new episodes every Monday and Thursday. We're serving up real deal conversations that go beyond the cameras. Think motherhood confessions, sisterhood vibes, boss business energy and tv Live tea. Need a laugh? We got you craving inspo. We got inspiration and affirmations on deck. Want a little cry or a big. Heck yes. That's our jam. Whether we're breaking down pop culture, sharing parenting wins or fails, unpacking personal growth, or just riffing on everyday chaos, nothing is off limits. Plus, we welcome incredible guests, play our favorite games, and do what only sisters can. Keep it 100 while raising a glass together. So pop a bottle, hit play and come hang with us. Listen to the Nikki and Bri show wherever you get your podcast.

[Maureen Callahan]

What's that? Gail King wants out of solitary in the woodshed. Fine. You can let her into the general population. In fact, you can let her out because I think she's getting fired pretty soon and we gotta have something to do with her. So we'll keep the wood chipper open and ready to go. Welcome back. Welcome back. I'm just like putting out fires all over the place here at the Nerve. We are joined by this demon over here to my left. Your right. Basically channeling Kim Kardashian at that event in LA about a week or so ago. This is actually producer Marlena hiding behind her.

[Marlena (Producer)]

I am skims reaper.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, sorry, right. Skims reaper. The skims reaper. She's the skims reaper. Now, Marlena is multi talented, as we know. She helped. Basically, the set decorations are. This is Marlena's Halloween hoard. Okay. She was like, what would you like? She texted me the other night from like a big box score. You want a rhinestone scythe or you want. What was the other sky Scythe.

[Marlena (Producer)]

Scythe.

[Maureen Callahan]

Sorry, I keep mispronouncing it.

[Marlena (Producer)]

It had a skull. The other one had a skull.

[Shannon Taggart]

Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

And I said, what do you think I want? I want the glam. I knew it.

[Marlena (Producer)]

I knew it.

[Maureen Callahan]

The glam. I'm gonna take your little head off with it. So, yeah, let's talk a little bit about our props. Now we have over here this ghoul one, Andrew Cohen, who. There you go.

[Marlena (Producer)]

Shaking in his boots.

[Maureen Callahan]

Look at that. Aren't I funny, My little ghosts. These were mine. I bought these. I saw this little illuminated ghost reading a book, and I fell for it. Hard. This number here, we believe, is Meghan Markle's future. Murky at best, swampy and likely slimy. What else? Oh, these are the apple martinis that you made. That you came up with this drink recipe in honor of the supremely untalented ultra auto tuned Nepo spawn Apple Martin. Yes.

[Marlena (Producer)]

And the ingredients are. Instead of Patron, it's Gwyneth Paltrone vodka. And we have apple schnapps and some lime juice. And it is served cold.

[Maureen Callahan]

Play Chin chin, my friend.

[Marlena (Producer)]

Chin chin.

[Maureen Callahan]

Happy Halloween, Haps.

[Marlena (Producer)]

I can't. I'll imbibe later.

[Maureen Callahan]

And by the way, you gotta chase that with a Ricola. Of course. Do those vocal cords right now.

[Marlena (Producer)]

You should send some of these to Apple.

[Maureen Callahan]

They would be wasted. They would absolutely be wasted. The only thing I want to say here is I asked you and you kept promising and it has not happened.

[Nikki and Bri]

What?

[Maureen Callahan]

And fine, you don't want to disfigure your creepy dolls for Halloween's future, but Greta over here was a supposed to have a real cafea. Not this. Okay, listen. Okay. And number two, you said you were gonna bob her. You were gonna give her the doom goblin BOB and the proper bangs that would bisect the forehead in studio. Those bangs are not. They are not nearly. They needed to be up here. They needed to be up here. And she cheated the BOB by wrapping it in this scarf. You know, I just normally. Marlena, your work is impeccable. This. I have to say, I noted the cheats. I still think she looks like a Doom goblin.

[Marlena (Producer)]

I think everybody understands. And listen, you got these props for free. So we're, you know, girl math. We're ahead of the game.

[Maureen Callahan]

I don't believe in girl math. But math was never my subject.

[Marlena (Producer)]

Math is not my subject either.

[Maureen Callahan]

It's not. Okay. I feel like you should show your face. Let's show your face to the troublemakers.

[Marlena (Producer)]

I'm sweating.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, that's. Again, these These Amazon costumes, highly flammable. You're not getting a lot of breathing, not a lot of natural materials. Okay, should we talk about a bit about the brainstorming that went into the offenders who would live in my hair? Yes. Because it was a. You know, to make the cut, it took a lot of. I believe Alec is up there. Alec Baldwin.

[Marlena (Producer)]

Alec Baldwin is up there. We've got my one and only Bill Maher up there.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, by the way, in our brainstorming meetings, so, you know, Emily's in charge of props. And Marlena said to Emily, do me a favor, make Bill Maher's head really small. And Emily said, okay, no problem. And I said, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. Marlena's running cover for Bill Maher because she has a crush on Bill Maher, and she wanted to make him disappear. And into this. Oh, we lost sjp.

[Shannon Taggart]

Oh, my God.

[Maureen Callahan]

We lost sjp.

[Marlena (Producer)]

She clearly likes Bill Maher, too, who.

[Maureen Callahan]

Is over there in Teddy's. That is actually a perfect SJP with the dead black eyes. There you go. There you go. There you go. Hang with yourself.

[Marlena (Producer)]

No one else will hang with you.

[Maureen Callahan]

We would illuminate the ghost of J. Lo's marriage's past and future. But it makes a lot of noise, so we can't do that. Yeah, just like JLo. Yeah, she makes a lot of noise. Now, the big reveal is that, as you may know and as we've been talking about on our substack, and if you haven't subscribed, go on over and subscribe to our nerve substack. Marlena was on the hunt for Kim K's mirkin.

[Marlena (Producer)]

Yeah, I was. And I did not. I was not successful. I went on the website shortly after it was announced, and it was out. Like, they were out of the supply. She says it was 24 hours. They sold out. Who would want this at all, let alone in the first 24 hours? I don't believe it.

[Maureen Callahan]

We think it's very Meghan Markle. We believe just our theory of the case that Meghan Markle has an undersupply. The volume of her product available for purchases limited, so that when all 10 jars say of supply slimy jam sell out, she can legitimately say, hey, they sold out.

[Marlena (Producer)]

They sold out. I think that Kim Kardashian made about five prototypes or whatever you see on her website. She put them up there because there's not one person I can source that actually bought them. People do reviews of them, but they're not actually reviewing the product. All they're doing is talking about it and doing exactly what we're doing, which is putting them up from the website. So I think it was a publicity stunt or.

[Maureen Callahan]

You don't say.

[Marlena (Producer)]

It was a. I'm shocked to the core publicity stunt.

[Maureen Callahan]

Marlena has never met a pun she doesn't like. It's true. Did you catch that? A pub licity stunts.

[Marlena (Producer)]

I can't decide if you actually like puns.

[Maureen Callahan]

I like the way you do them. I like the puns that you come up with.

[Marlena (Producer)]

You know who comes up with puns that are adjacent to mine?

[Maureen Callahan]

Who?

[Marlena (Producer)]

Gilmore.

[Maureen Callahan]

I'll take it. Okay.

[Marlena (Producer)]

Okay.

[Maureen Callahan]

Point taken. Point taken.

[Shannon Taggart]

Okay.

[Maureen Callahan]

All right. But you know what? You do the puns without touching your genitalia.

[Marlena (Producer)]

Well, I can't say that today.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, this is true. Today.

[Marlena (Producer)]

That's all going to change because. Because I couldn't source and do the product review that I really wanted to do of Kim Kardashian's piece of her faux hair underwear. I had to make it myself. And I have come to report that it's extremely easy to do because I showed up to work with a little bit of alien tape and a wig. And behold.

[Maureen Callahan]

Graphic. Warning Graphic.

[Marlena (Producer)]

Before I stand up.

[Maureen Callahan]

There are children in the room. Cover their eyes.

[Marlena (Producer)]

Escort them out. I don't even know which camera I am going to Andy Cohen. Of course you'd block my merkin.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, that's your. Everything's not an interest to Andy. All right, you know what I'm gonna do?

[Marlena (Producer)]

I'm gonna take them off and I'm gonna hold them up and I'm gonna show you that they are no different. We should do a side by side of this. Maureen.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, it doesn't seem like it. Perhaps it could live with our. Now, this is so Nerve. I couldn't believe it. I thought Marlena had purchased it. But this is how we knew we were fated to work together, because she had this before the nerve was even in existence and we had ever met. It's a skull. Do it in the lotus position. It's a Buddha skull on a black pumpkin. And you know the Buddha rule here at the Nerf, you see someone with a Buddha in their yard. Run, run, run.

[Marlena (Producer)]

So in the end, Maureen. Yes, for this particular case, and I took off my mask, but this is a dead product. The skim reaper has killed this because it could be made at home and it can't be bought online. And she's full of it. And you know what we're coming for next?

[Maureen Callahan]

What?

[Marlena (Producer)]

With love.

[Maureen Callahan]

Is it. Oh, Christmas episode. Yes. As ever.

[Marlena (Producer)]

As ever. Excuse me.

[Maureen Callahan]

As ever.

[Marlena (Producer)]

I can't be bothered to remember any of her stuff.

[Maureen Callahan]

You know, it's a problem. That's a. That's a branding problem. I mean, again, I think Megan could learn a lot from us here at the Nerve. We know what we're doing.

[Marlena (Producer)]

We know that, well, we'll have this next week, but we know some other people and other publications are learning a lot from the Nerf.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, yes. An August publication. An august publication. And by the way, take a look at our Witch Head special edition rip. Your humble host standing sentry at the door. So, yeah, we've got a lot more bodies moving in there next week.

[Marlena (Producer)]

You're gonna have to get a bigger.

[Maureen Callahan]

Woodshed, bigger boat, bigger woodshed.

[Marlena (Producer)]

And maybe some more wood chippers. More high powered wood chippers.

[Maureen Callahan]

You know, the one that the current nerve wood chipper is roaming around out on its own doing its thing. So, yeah, we need one that we can keep locked and loaded on site. Thank you, Marlena.

[Marlena (Producer)]

Well, we can't put this merkin in the wood chipper now.

[Maureen Callahan]

No, the merkin's going in the archives for our imminent first annual Nerve Awards. Keep your eyes out. Or should that thing locked up.

[Marlena (Producer)]

Or should I put it under Kinsey's Christmas tree?

[Maureen Callahan]

Don't spoil the surprise.

[Heidi Weyrich]

Shh.

[Marlena (Producer)]

Okay, that does it for the skim reaper for today.

[Maureen Callahan]

Thanks, Marlena. There's nothing you won't do for the Nerf.

[Marlena (Producer)]

Of course not. Anything for you, Maureen.

[Maureen Callahan]

Aww. And now onto your emails. As you guys well know, I put out the call maybe about a month ago to say, email me about any experiences that you've either had with the paranormal and. Or if you were born with the gift. And we heard from a fair amount of you, and we're going to read a few right now. Hello, Maureen. This is from Beverly, a dedicated troublemaker who says, my ears perked up when I heard you ask for letters from troublemakers with the gift. I have only told my closest friends of some of the things that have happened to me, mainly when I was a teen, young adult, and my family tried to ignore it. In the next segment, we're going to be talking with a woman who has spent much of her career documenting spiritualists and mediums, and she talks about how typically it's younger women who are dialed into this stuff. Beverly wrote of several experiences I'm going to read, too. One, my parents drove me to an Air Force base that someone had been transferred to. After dropping me off, they continued on to Spend the long Thanksgiving weekend with other family. The afternoon before Thanksgiving, I woke up from a nap during which I had a terrible dream that my family had been in a bad car accident and they had all died. Two police officers had come to the door to notify me. I was so rattled from the dream that I got up, fixed a cup of tea and sat down by the kitchen window just as two police officers came walking to the front door. Yes, my family had been in a car wreck. Luckily, there were no serious injuries. There was another time when I had a flash or a vision of a blue pickup rolling over and over down the highway. Minutes later, my dad called me to say he couldn't come up to visit that weekend because he'd been in a wreck and broke his arm. Yes, he drove a blue pickup. The last event that I saw, she puts in saw and quote, something happening was after her brother Billy. My 24 year old brother told me one weekend when I came to see him at Parris island that he had just gotten orders to deploy to. To deploy, excuse me, to Beirut, Lebanon. I immediately saw a black cloud over his head and I knew he would not survive that deployment. Months later, just weeks before they were scheduled to come home, the phone rang at dawn on a Sunday morning. I sat up, looked at my husband and said, billy is dead. I picked up the phone to hear my mom screaming. That was 10, 28, 83. 241 military members, 220 of whom were Marines, were murdered. That was 42 years ago today, the day that I am writing this. My premonitions stopped after that. I think my psyche couldn't handle it anymore. Fascinating, Beverly, thank you for sharing that. This is from another troublemaker, Montana. A Montana troublemaker. Here, I'm going to keep you anonymous just in case. When I was 19, the mother of my best friend died in a plane crash. Next to my mother, Mrs. X was the most influential woman in my childhood. That night I awoke suddenly and found her stand at the foot of my bed. Seeing her, I sat up and not believing my own eyes, blurted something like, but you're dead. She made a dismissive gesture, kind of acknowledging her dead state while also batting it away, and in a handful of words asked me to look after my friend and her younger brother. She had four children total and I thought later it was interesting that she did not mention the other two. My memory of this remains unalterable and very clear. One more. A couple of days before my mother died, when she was in hospice care at home, I told her not to worry about me, that I would be okay, but that I would also be okay much faster if when she got to where she was going and got settled in, she could send me a sign. About 16 months after her death, I was scheduled for an outpatient procedure that really frightened me. The night before, as I prepared for bed, I was talking to my mother in my head, saying how I wished she could accompany me as I knew she would have insisted doing had she been alive. The next morning, I went downstairs, let the dog out, and then turned to the kitchen, and there it was. In the last years of her life, my mother carried a cell phone with her when she went out. She rarely used it, and when she was at home, it lived in a round porcelain tea canister along with the charger. Whenever she was preparing to go somewhere, she got the phone and the cord out of the canister and plugged it in right there on the counter. That morning I found the lid removed from the canister, propped on the ledge beside it. When I saw it, I was startled. My first impression was of a deliberate action and I thought someone was in the house, much as Bill from Brooklyn spoke about in the next moment, I knew without question this was her sign. She was preparing to go with me. I took the photos which we're showing here. This was back in 2018 and I have not heard from her since. Maureen, this is from a faithful troublemaker since day one in West Virginia. Troublemaker A you know who you are. We're showing these photos as well. The guy in the picture dancing is my brother Alex. He died 10 years ago. He was only 26. I am so sorry. He died in a tragic accident. His girlfriend in the picture, Jackie, and he were out celebrating her crushing the mcat, which we had taken together. He fell off a three story roof at a party and died instantly. It was fucking awful. Obviously. The funeral was a few days later on February 27th. It was in the church at the school that we went to. The church was packed, wall to wall people. What was bizarre was that on the way to the funeral there were rainbows everywhere. And I mean everywhere. My brother and I lived in San Francisco at the time and the funeral was held in Marin county over the Golden Gate bridge, the entire 45 minute drive to the church. There were rainbows everywhere. I have never seen anything like that before or since. And she included some photos of them. And if you've been to that area of the country, you know, it's typically cloudy, hazy, you don't see one rainbow, let alone a series of them. Finally, troublemaker Stephanie from Geneva, Illinois. And I chose this last because it really echoes nicely to what Bill was discussing with us. I have had several other worldly experiences, but here's one of my best. I grew up in Phoenix in a house built in 1929, which for Arizona is old. It's on the historic preservation list. That's how old it is. When we moved in, we were told that a man had committed suicide in the house and that his spirit was still present. None of us believed it until we started experiencing a presence in one spot in the house. The dog would growl, but no one was there. My mom had seen flashes of light and felt him. My dad, who doesn't believe in any of this stuff, even felt the presence. One night I was up late reading in our family room, which had a set of French doors facing me and the door to the family room was behind me. Out of the top of my eyes, I saw a man's reflection in the French doors. A man who was standing behind me in the door to the family room. It was unmistakable. As I slowly looked up, he was still there. And then I turned around and he was gone. Chills. Alas, he is no longer with us. He found his peace, love, everything. You guys sent me those. Those we picked because they just dovetailed so incredibly with what Bill was talking about, with the subject we have coming up later of a young girl who was visited by two men who died long before she was ever born. And this happened in like the 80s or 90s. We'll have the specifics for you in that next break. But first, rather that next segment. But first, is the wig like a little tight on my head? Like. Okay, a quick reminder. Keep your feedback and emails coming. Email me at maureenevilmakehairmedia.com or DM me on Instagram @maureen callahanrider or at the Nerve show. And remember to subscribe to the nerve substack thenerveshow.substack.com we will see you back here in a minute. Do you trust the seafood you bring home? Do you question the nutrition, the taste or the sustainability? Well, have you tried Wild Alaskan company Wild Alaskan is the best way to get wild caught, perfectly proportioned, nutrient dense seafood delivered directly to your door. Their fish is 100% wild, caught and never farmed. Which means there are no antibiotics, GMOs or additives, just clean, real fish that supports healthy oceans and fishing communities. Wild Alaskan fish is frozen off the boat to lock in taste, texture and nutrients. Wild Alaskan is sustainably sourced and wild caught from Alaska and your membership delivers flexible shipments, expert tips and truly feel good seafood like my favorite sockeye salmon and Pacific Code. You can try it risk free. That's right, 100% money back guarantee. Not all fish are the same. Get seafood you can trust. Go to wildalaskan.com nerve for $35 off your first box of premium wild caught seafood. That's wildalaskan.com nerve For $35 off your first order. And thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

Hey everyone, it's me, Andy Cohen. Buckle up because I have a podcast called Daddy Diaries where I take my listeners on an as it happened recount of life as a daddy to two kids, dozens of housewives and the occasional fella. Listen to the Daddy Diaries to hear about my high highs and low lows of parenting, housewives, drama and so much more. Daddy Diaries available wherever you listen to.

[Heidi Weyrich]

Podcasts.

[NYQUIL Advertiser]

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[Maureen Callahan]

We are back. The case we are about to delve into is one that I saw as a kid and it has stuck with me ever since. I have never forgotten it and trust me when I say, you know, we're having a lot of fun on our Halloween extravaganza with the costume and the makeup and the set design. But we're taking all of this stuff deadly seriously. Like, no pun intended, very seriously. This case, if you, if you are a deep, deep skeptic about anything paranormal, about any notions of an afterlife, I defy you to watch this and go through this discussion with me and our guest and then come out the other side without your mind being a little bit altered in a good way. Like opening up like, you know, doors of perception. To quote Huxley, it was Huxley then Jim Morrison. Anyway, okay, this case involves a then four year old girl who in 1989 moved into a new house with her parents in Ellersley, Georgia. Of course with her parents, she was four. Anyway, they move in and very soon after she is visited by a man who says he lives next door and would she like to come out and play. And then she meets another man who says he lives nearby too and he's got a swing set in his backyard and would she like to play. And both of these men had died long before she was born. And again, this is the 80s. This is before the Internet. This is before social media. This story aired on unsolved mysteries in 1994. And what's remarkable about it is that part of the segment is reenactments of some of these vignettes with actors. And then some of the segment consists of interviews with the main players. Heidi, who's still a very young girl at this time, and her parents. Her father has since passed away. And then we see in real time Heidi working with a parapsychologist, Dr. William Roll, who had a PhD in the field, also has since died, evaluating her claims and coming away just as mesmerized and captivated and just knocked sideways as anyone who watches this segment. So we're going to begin with a look at Heidi's first encounter with one of these men, a man she was introduced to as Khan.

[Heidi Weyrich]

Hello, honey.

[Shannon Taggart]

Hi.

[Heidi Weyrich]

What's your name?

[Heidi Weyrich (child)]

Heidi.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

That's a pretty name, Heidi.

[Heidi Weyrich]

You know, I live right next door.

[Bill from Brooklyn]

And in my backyard I have a swing.

[Heidi Weyrich]

I bet you like to swing, don't you?

[Heidi Weyrich (child)]

Yes.

[Heidi Weyrich]

Just after Heidi's move to Ellerslie, according to Heidi, a man named Khan appeared at the front door. Would you like that?

[Heidi Weyrich (child)]

He had white hair, and he had a T shirt on with blood all over it. And he had got a bandage on his hand with blood on it.

[Heidi Weyrich]

Why don't you go ask your mama if it's okay? Okay.

[Marlena (Producer)]

Mama?

[Heidi Weyrich (child)]

What, honey? Can I go play outside with the man? Is it Uncle Mark? No. What man is it? He has gray hair and he has blood on his shirt. Come here.

[Maureen Callahan]

Are you sure?

[Shannon Taggart]

Yeah.

[Heidi Weyrich (child)]

I thought someone was trying to kidnap her. So I brought Heidi in and I locked all the doors, and I got the butcher knife out of the kitchen, you know, out of the drawer. And I. I called my husband home and said, andy, you have got to come home. You know there's somebody trying to kidnap Heidi.

[Maureen Callahan]

So Lisa called her husband Andy, Heidi's dad, who comes home from work. And they searched the neighborhood looking for this older man who knocked on the door with a bloody stump where a hand should be, who introduced himself as Khan. They found nothing. They found no one. And they thought that it was Heidi's imagination maybe a little bit in overdrive. Maybe she's adjusting to this move, this new house. Then there's. Then another visitor shows up. Let's take a look at this.

[Heidi Weyrich (child)]

Soon after Heidi had seen Khan, she started seeing a man she would call Mr. Gordy. And he was. He would come all together and she would. She would play with him outside.

[Heidi Weyrich]

Hi there, Heidi.

[Heidi Weyrich (child)]

Hi.

[Heidi Weyrich]

That is your name, isn't it?

[Heidi Weyrich (child)]

Yes.

[Heidi Weyrich]

I'm Mr. Gordy, and I used to live in this neighborhood. In fact, I knew those people next door real well and used to have a great swing over there in the backyard. Would you like to go over and swing with me for a few minutes?

[Heidi Weyrich (child)]

Okay. I thought that Khan and Gordy was the same person, so I thought his name was Khan Gordy. And that's when I started asking everybody, do they. Have they ever heard of a name Khan Gordy?

[Heidi Weyrich]

I didn't know really who it was or, you know, if it was a real person. But then after, you know, we couldn't find nobody or nobody to fit the description, then that's when I started thinking, you know, that was just imaginary friends. That didn't really bother me too bad.

[Maureen Callahan]

Then.

[Heidi Weyrich]

It began to bother Andy Wyre and Lisa as well when Lisa's sister, who had bought the house next door, showed them the former owner's papers.

[Heidi Weyrich (child)]

Just read that right there.

[Maureen Callahan]

What?

[Heidi Weyrich (child)]

Right here, look.

[Heidi Weyrich]

James S. Gordy.

[Heidi Weyrich (child)]

When I seen Mr. Gordy's name on the deed, I mean, I was terrified. I really was, because I knew that the previous owners was there, you know, years and years and years back. So I knew that Mr. Gordy, I knew he had to have been dead.

[Maureen Callahan]

Shannon Taggart is a photo based artist and author from St. Paul, Minnesota. Her work explores spirituality, the supernatural, the paranormal, and the history of the field. Her book Seance was named one of Time magazine's best photo books of 2019 and received raves from the New York Times, the Financial Times, cnn, and a slew of other publications. She joins us today from Lilydale, New York. And if you're not familiar, Lilydale is possibly the biggest home in America to spiritualists and mediums and those who believe in other realms and the afterlife. Shannon, thank you so much for joining us today.

[Shannon Taggart]

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

[Maureen Callahan]

Now, I don't know if you had been familiar with the case of Heidi Weyrich prior to what you're seeing now, based on what you're seeing here, this report from 1994. What do you make of a small child who is seeing what look like apparitions or visions of two men who have died?

[Shannon Taggart]

Well, I haven't heard of her case specifically, but it's such a common theme in poltergeist cases or even the lives of the saints that a young girl has Sees apparitions or has contact with the spirit world.

[Maureen Callahan]

Why is it young girls predominantly?

[Shannon Taggart]

I don't know. The, The. Some people have theorized that the strong emotions that are. That come with prepu. Precious, prepubescent time of life or even into puberty is something. It allows an emotional kind of charge that helps such experiences.

[Maureen Callahan]

Now with a case like Heidi, though she was 4 at the time, so there. I. Talk to me a little bit, a bit about that because you work and have worked for years around spiritualists, mediums, people who believe in the paranormal or who have had some experiences with the same thing. There is a theory that I have heard that children are more. Young children are more likely to experience such phenomena because they're somewhat closer somehow to the other side.

[Shannon Taggart]

Yes. Well, the spiritualists. When I first started learning about spiritualism, they told me that imaginary friends are often not imaginary friends. It's contact with the spirit world. There was a man named Jose Silva who did a lot with children and studying the psychic abilities of children. And I remember reading when I was looking into him that it had something to do with where your brain waves are when you're a child as being different than when you're an adult.

[Maureen Callahan]

The brain development I could see. I mean, I don't know that there are any real neurological studies that sort of go towards brain waves development, exposure to paranormal phenomena. But what strikes me about the Heidi story is that these are two men who had died long before her family ever moved to this town. And if what Heidi is relaying is true, which I don't see how this child could have made this up or had access to any of this information. This seems to be something that we really don't talk. I mean, other cultures have language for this. The idea of spirits who get stuck between this world and the next. Can you talk a little bit about that?

[Shannon Taggart]

Well, I guess one way to look at it is some people say some spirits get stuck and then they need help. But others believe that we can have contact with our loved ones and that it's like the. The veil between life and death remains connected. You know, often you'll hear parents who lose their children have experiences of visits from their children. You know, there's different ways of looking at it. Nobody knows for sure. This. This struck me as just a classic kind of spirit contact. Less so than like somebody being stuck. But, you know, I don't know.

[Maureen Callahan]

The thing that makes it confusing to me if, If. If these spirits aren't stuck is why they would seek out a small child. You know, to play with it just. It strikes me as odd. I mean, if I were that, that mother, I would think something sinister was afoot.

[Shannon Taggart]

I've heard it described as children. They'll go to where who can see them or who can have contact. And there is talk in the show about the family having abilities, and that is part of the conversation as well. What I loved about this episode is it touches on so, so many different themes that are confusing or talked about in paranormal cases. It kind of spans the gamut, which makes the episode really rich.

[Maureen Callahan]

Well, there's part of the episode that we're not showing, but there comes a time in this timeline, Gordy and Kahn, who we learn later we'll see. She's off by one letter. They visit Heidi for three to four years, by her account, constantly. And she's happy with them. And her parents understand that these are not living beings as we understand them. Her mother becomes pregnant, and during that time, Heidi begins to tell her parents she's having visitations from darker spirits. They feel more demonic. She can't see their faces. They frighten her. After the baby is born, she comes into their room one night hysterical, and she's got three claw marks down her cheek. Her father thinks perhaps she did that to herself. In the ensuing nights, her father wakes up and reports, one night, three scratches on his side. The next night, three scratches on his back. The next night, three scratches on his chest. He says they thought about moving. And Heidi's mom says, I don't think that's going to make a difference. She's got the gift. These spirits will find her wherever she goes. I wanted to ask you about this, though, because as much as I think the two older men are visitations to Heidi, it struck me as interesting that the visions would take a darker turn during a time that would be, I would imagine, highly anxiety inducing for a little girl who's got a new sibling on the way and has already moved and is maybe worried about her place in the family. What do you make of any of those theories?

[Shannon Taggart]

Well, I think you honed in on something that's really important about the paranormal is often situations get more charged or there's more reports during liminal periods of period, periods of transition or change. One of the best books, I think, ever written on the paranormal is called the Trickster and the Paranormal by George Hansen. And he points out that, you know, liminality is a huge characteristic. And so if emotions are evolved and at a time like you pointed out, it would be life changing for her that it Is it does seem significant that the tone changes then and things start going haywire then it seems to.

[Maureen Callahan]

Me, I mean my sort of theory about it is some of this is absolutely documented paranormal activity and some of it may be then auto generated by Heidi's own young mind. And that the darker visitations may just be her brain attempting to wrap itself around emotions that are far too big for a small child to really integrate or understand. Does that make sense?

[Shannon Taggart]

Yeah, that's the mind can. It's often said that the mind, the mind plays a part in how the unknown peers to you. Interesting if you, if you bring a lot like because the mind or the emotions are shaping it. So this does align with theories about the paranormal.

[Maureen Callahan]

So we're going to now take a look. When Heidi began reporting darker visions and the father began reporting what he thought were attacks by a demonic spirit or spirits in the house, they called in a professor of the paranormal. He had a PhD. His name was Dr. William Roll. He's since deceased. But the brilliance of Unsolved mysteries was they they recorded this in real time. Now the first clip we're going to look at Shannon is Dr. Rolle sitting down with Heidi and her mother in their home which is significant because this is where the locus of all the activity. And he presents Heidi with a bunch of physical photos.

[Heidi Weyrich]

What you are watching is real. Heidi Wyrick is looking through the photographs for the first time.

[Maureen Callahan]

The doctor is looking on and he's being very deliberate. That one looks like very self possessed. That is Mr. Gordy. You're right. Oh Mr. Gordy.

[Heidi Weyrich]

Incredibly, Heidi had chosen the photograph of James Gordon twice now the little girl had correctly identified her spirits from a photo lineup. Having spoken to to Heidi and and her parents, I'm even more convinced that, that we are dealing, that we are dealing with genuine parapsychological experiences.

[Maureen Callahan]

Shannon, what, what do you make of having seen that?

[Shannon Taggart]

I'm not surprised because I've done a lot of research on the paranormal and also met a lot of people who have these experiences and I've seen many type of cases where the evidence is just irrefutable or just too compelling to dismiss.

[Maureen Callahan]

In your experience how do people and does it correlate with age? Heidi, especially in that clip what really struck me was her self possession. She did not seem afraid, she just seemed very deliberate. And she was looking through these photos looking for the man who she had been visiting with for the past three to four years. What's the difference between someone who feels almost, it seems quite comfortable with this Whether it's an ability, whether they're visitations, whether they're chosen or they're choosing the spirits versus someone who is perhaps unmoored by it or disturbed by it.

[Shannon Taggart]

Well, yeah, I did notice several times she makes the point that she's not afraid, and she discerns between good spirits and bad spirits. Many of the mediums I've met, it becomes completely normal because they have these experiences since they're young children and they learn to deal with it. And I. I guess if some of them were scared in the beginning, they. They learned to work it like a mechanism. I was actually surprised to learn that mediums, they do. You can do classes to learn how to work with your gift. Yeah. That was one of the most shocking things to me. I. There's actually even a spiritualist college in England where people go to do training. Yeah.

[Maureen Callahan]

I want to show this one other clip of Heidi identifying Khan. Now, that sort of ran in reverse because we wanted to get to Dr. Rolle. But towards the end of that, when Robert Stack, the narrator, says, this was the second time now, that Heidi had identified one of the men visiting her she had previously identified. Excuse me. The man she called Khan.

[Heidi Weyrich]

And.

[Maureen Callahan]

And you and I will take a look at that and then talk about it on the back end. Here we go.

[Heidi Weyrich (child)]

I was looking through the pictures, and I never saw none of them people. And when I got to the bottom, there's this little bitty picture. That's the guy with the bandage on his arm and the boy on his shirt. That's Colin.

[Shannon Taggart]

Well, you know who that is, baby.

[Maureen Callahan]

His name is Lon, and he's my uncle. It was Lon. He's a neighbor. Lon lived here when he was a young man.

[Shannon Taggart]

He died in 1957 of cancer.

[Maureen Callahan]

And he lost his hand at a.

[Shannon Taggart]

Very early age, I would say before he was 20 years old in a cotton gin up here in Ellerslie.

[Heidi Weyrich (child)]

When I saw him, he was. He was holding his right hand under his left hand, and he was doing that in the picture. When I found out that. That it was Ms. Kelly's uncle and his name really wasn't Conn, it was Lon, it scared me to death because I knew Heidi was really seeing something. And she was so small at the time, and she couldn't really speak that well, so I knew right then she was mistaken. And it wasn't Khan. It was Lon.

[Maureen Callahan]

Shannon. Have you ever had experience with children, small children who. Or, you know, dealt with reports of small children who report such apparitions? And parents who. Heidi's parents strike me as remarkably, again, self possessed with this happening. I mean, I think that most parents would be completely freaked out.

[Shannon Taggart]

Yeah. In Lilydale, they actually have a children's week one week in the summer for children who have such experiences so they can meet other children and be around them and they do classes together and discuss.

[Maureen Callahan]

That's fascinating. I would imagine that those children. Otherwise, I mean, do you think things have changed? Do children who have these experiences feel sort of more comfortable talking about them? Do they understand that they have something that's a gift? Or does it tend to make most children in your experience feel unusual, different in not a great way?

[Shannon Taggart]

Well, I, I think it depends on the family. I mean, there are moments in the, in the episode where she gets made fun of and, you know, people are treating her badly because they hear that she can, she has these abilities. So I think in our culture it's kind of cleansed out or people are less apt to embrace it or even talk about it. And a lot of. So a lot of people do lose the ability, even if they have it when they're young, that they just.

[Maureen Callahan]

Oh, wow. Oh, so you can lose it. It's like speaking a language, a foreign language. Right. If you don't use that muscle, if you don't develop it and cultivate it, you can lose it.

[Shannon Taggart]

Well, the spiritualists believe everybody has this ability and that it's some, some people are better than others, you know, so if some children who have childhood friends or invisible friends when they're young and it just kind of gradually goes away, it doesn't say stay strong, maybe they had less of a connection. I think it's our, you know, it depends on the culture. Other cultures, you know, embrace this or don't, don't shame it, or it's part of life more so than ours. I think there's a true taboo about such things in our. We're very materialist, you know, science driven culture. And also, even if it happens, it's always deemed as negative and bad or many times.

[Maureen Callahan]

Yeah, you're so right about that. Rather than a gift or a portal into, into something that we can barely comprehend. And, and that is why that, that, that episode has always, always stayed with me because I just don't know how you describe that as anything else but a gifted child seeing two souls who departed. Thank you, Shannon, for joining us. It's so serendipitous that you're up in Lilydale. Enjoy the rest of your time there and we hope to talk to you again.

[Shannon Taggart]

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[Maureen Callahan]

That does it for our Halloween edition of the Nerve. Not to fear, we will be back tomorrow for our mini Nerve. And you know, if you celebrate Halloween, you know the day after Halloween is All Souls Day. And guys, do we have a banger for you. Banger. If you haven't already, check out our [e-mail] Be sure to subscribe. We've got a lot of behind the scenes details, intel, color from today's production, plus nerve merch. Grab something for yourself or pick something up for a fellow troublemaker or someone you would like to lure in to our little community over here@shop thenerve.com we hope you have a happy and safe Halloween and we will see you back here tomorrow and again on Tuesday at the Nerve, where you will never guess what we're about to say next.

[Nikki and Bri]

Hey everyone, it's Nikki and Bri and we're here to let you know that we have a podcast, the Nicki and Bri Show. Yes, and we've got new episodes every Monday and Thursday. We're serving up real deal conversations that go beyond the cameras. Think motherhood confessions, sisterhood vibes, boss business energy and TV life Tea. Need a laugh? We got you craving inspo. We got inspiration and affirmations on deck. Want a little cry or a big? Heck yes. That's our jam. Whether we're breaking down pop culture, sharing parenting wins or fails, unpacking personal growth, or just riffing on everyday chaos, nothing is off limits. Plus, we welcome incredible guests, play our favorite games and do what only sisters can. Keep it 100 while raising a glass together. So pop a bottle, hit play and come hang with us. Listen to the Nikki and Bree show wherever you get your podcast.

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