25 Years Together: Inside a Neurodivergent Marriage That Lasted

Summary

The Neurodivergent Experience

Episode: 25 Years Together: Inside a Neurodivergent Marriage That Lasted

Hosts: Jordan James & Simon Scott
Guest: Sylvia (Jordan’s wife)
Date: January 15, 2026

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Episode Overview

This heartwarming and refreshingly honest episode celebrates 25 years of marriage between Jordan James and his neurodivergent wife, Sylvia. Together with co-host Simon Scott, they share their experiences forging a deeply connected partnership as two neurodivergent people. The discussion delves into the stigmas surrounding neurodivergent relationships, how undiagnosed neurodivergence shaped their past, communication, meltdowns, shutdowns, inner child joy, and the essential ingredients for their lasting success.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Redefining Success in Neurodivergent Relationships

• [03:39] Simon highlights societal stigma:

  “There's a lot of stigma around neurodivergent people, especially from the holistic neurotypical community...there is a stigma around what success is to neurodivergent people.”

• Many are surprised neurodivergent people can have “normal” lives—jobs, homes, relationships.
• For Jordan and Sylvia, success isn't just time together, but remaining “in love, playful, and obsessed with each other.”
• [06:04] Jordan challenges time as the measure:

  “I don't see the success as the amount of time…The success that we have is not the amount of time, it's the fact that...we are still laughing and playing and teasing and just acting literally like the most in love couple.”

2. How They Make It Work—Honesty (and Humor!)

• [09:16] Sylvia:

  “The time just went. But it feels like we just started…We always end up on the same page, which is I think the most important part for everybody to move on and have the years looking forward together.”

• Disagreements are healthy, but they always reconnect as “partners in crime.”
• [10:58] Scott summarizes:

  “Time flies when you’re having fun.”

3. Navigating Trauma and Undiagnosed Neurodivergence

• Jordan’s early years were marked by family abuse, trauma, and anger issues.
• Both partners adapted to each other's sensory and emotional needs before knowing about neurodivergence.
• [14:39] Sylvia:

  “You don't need to know everything from my background to know me, I suppose.”

• They developed “complementary” coping: Jordan is vocally expressive, Sylvia more internal and stoic.

4. Communication Styles: Vocal vs Internal Processing

• [16:39] Jordan:

  “The most important thing about our relationship...is not that we're just a married couple. We are Sylvia and Jordan. And we are friends.”

• [17:47] Sylvia, dryly, on first meeting Jordan:

  ”At first, I didn’t really like the guy. He’s not all that. He’s not very tall.”

• Their friendship-first dynamic is the "safe base" for everything. Playfulness (and playful teasing) sustains them.

5. Meltdowns & Shutdowns in Marriage

Jordan (explosive, visible, sometimes self-harm)

Sylvia (withdrawal, cleaning, “nesting,” shutdown)

• [25:30] Sylvia:

  “My meltdowns...I prefer just closing and just...shut the world away.”

• [27:33] Jordan:

  “Mine are very much more in line with somebody that's received serious aggressive physical trauma...”

• Sylvia’s calm, non-judgmental approach to Jordan’s meltdowns has been crucial:
  • She gives space, avoids escalation, and instead brings the “Gorilla Glue” to fix what’s broken (literally and figuratively).
  • [33:21] “Sylvia just waited for it [the meltdown] to happen and then went, I’ve got the Gorilla Glue…And I fixed it.”
• [34:47] Scott describes how their management is refreshing for those who feel ashamed post-meltdown.

6. Mutual Support in Distress

• When Sylvia is in shutdown, Jordan respects her need for space and control:
  • He offers help, but lets her lead and make her own choices.
  • Provides options (help, food, going out), but does not press.
  • [36:09] Sylvia:

    “He normally tried to help me clean. I'm like…no, just leave it.”

• Both agree: giving your partner unpressured choice and support is vital.

7. Recovery and Repair After Meltdowns

• [43:41] Sylvia:

  “After the meltdown, normally we just have a little cuddle, have a cup of tea, coffee and off we go. Easy.”

• Touch, comfort, treats, and gentle presence bring them back together.
• Self-awareness and growth: Jordan speaks candidly about the pain of past hurtful words, learning to apologize, and doing the work to change generational trauma.
  • [45:51] Sylvia (on past Jordan):

    “You find out that later…you didn't even understand, dude."

8. Individuality, Inner Child & Shared Play

• [56:37] Playful in-jokes, echolalia, and shared interests are key.
• Playful competition and rivalry (Mario Kart, DIY projects), friendly teasing, and celebrating their individual quirks keep the marriage energized.
  • [62:15] Scott:

    ”We’re constantly joking…it’s like an improv class. Constantly. We’re just constantly laughing with each other…”

• Respecting and not devaluing another's special interests is fundamental.

9. Merging Interests, Compromise, and Collaboration

• Over time, they've learned to embrace each other's special interests (DIY for Sylvia, toys and tech for Jordan, basketball for both!).
• [79:27] Jordan’s advice:

  “Compromise. If you want to be stubborn in your relationship…like it’s a competition, then you are not in a good relationship…What is a healthy relationship is when you work as a team to win the game…every point is a point for the team, not a point for you.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On love & longevity:

  "If after 25 years, you can still act so much in love when you know everything about each other, all the bad, all the good, that's...true love." – Jordan ([06:04])

• On play and inner child:

  “[We’re] more like a partners in crime.” – Sylvia ([10:58])

• On neurodivergent dynamics:

  “You both complement each other very, very well…the chemistry is off the charts.” – Scott ([20:24])

• On dealing with meltdowns:

  “She just waited for it to happen and then went, I’ve got the Gorilla Glue.” – Jordan ([33:21])

• On repair rituals:

  “We just have a little cuddle, have a cup of tea, coffee and off we go easy.” – Sylvia ([43:41])

• On embracing weirdness:

  "You don't know how weird we are." – Sylvia ([57:37])

• On teamwork & compromise:

  “You’re not playing tennis against each other. You’re playing basketball with each other. You’re on the same team. Every point is a point for the team, not a point for you.” – Jordan ([80:29])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:39] – Success as a neurodivergent couple
• [06:04] – True love vs. just longevity
• [13:07] – How they adapted before diagnosis
• [16:39] – Friendship-first as a relationship foundation
• [25:30] – Meltdown & shutdown dynamics
• [33:21] – Managing meltdowns and mutual support
• [43:41] – How they reconnect after crisis
• [56:37] – Playfulness, in-jokes, and inner child
• [62:15] – Not diminishing each other’s special interests
• [70:14] – Essential advice: Have fun together
• [79:27] – Working as a team (compromise)

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Advice & Takeaways (From 25 Years Married Neurodivergent)

Sylvia ([70:14], [80:29])

• “Have fun with each other.”
• “Compromise. If you don’t compromise, you’re not going forward. You will not last.”

Jordan ([70:18], [80:29])

• “Tap into your partner’s interests, and vice versa. Find things you both love, but respect each other’s individuality too.”
• “Work as a team, not as competitors.”

Scott ([74:45], [80:29])

• “Be with someone you're friends with, love and trust, and who you can laugh with and look forward to spending time with.”

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Episode Tone

• Warm, deeply personal, openly self-reflective, peppered with affectionate teasing, plenty of silly banter, and lots of laughter. The hosts and guest are unafraid to tackle tough topics (trauma, meltdowns), but default to compassion, camaraderie, and hope.
• Self-deprecating humor and inside jokes give a glimpse into a marriage that values joy—even in adversity.

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a sincere, nuanced, and uplifting look into how two neurodivergent people can create a resilient, loving partnership. It’s equal parts realistic about struggles and celebratory of neurodivergent joy, connection, and the everyday “weirdness” that makes lasting love possible.

If you’re neurodivergent (or love someone who is), you’ll find validation, concrete strategies, and, most of all, hope in Jordan and Sylvia’s story.

Transcript

[Elise Hu]

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[Jordan James]

Wait, we're going on tour?

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[Scott]

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[Jordan James]

Wait, we're going on tour?

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[Jordan James]

Not with that attitude.

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[Jordan James]

Welcome to the Neurodivergent Experience podcast. A podcast where we share the lived experience of neurodivergent people to help create a better understanding for our community.

[Scott]

Join us every week as we bring you honest, raw and inspiring conversations with specialists, advocates and individuals who know exactly what it's like to live the neurodivergent experience.

[Jordan James]

I'm Jordan James, a neurodivergent specialist, father of neurodivergent children, husband to a neurodivergent wife and author of the Autistic Experience. And I'm joined by my best friend.

[Scott]

I'm Simon Scott. I'm an autistic, ADHD broadcaster, actor and advocate. Join us as we journey into unraveling the neurodivergent experience.

[Jordan James]

Hello. Hello and welcome back. And it. Welcome. Welcome back. Because it's. It's been a week. It's been a week, everyone.

[Scott]

We've had a goddamn week off. Hello everybody.

[Jordan James]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Welcome to 2026. If you're listening to this in the future, what a year. If you're listening right now, what a year it could be.

[Sylvia]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

That's it.

[Scott]

That's it. Thanks. Bye, everybody.

[Jordan James]

Well, I mean, it's not. It's not off to a great start, but we will talk about that. But it is off to a great start for. For me because at the beginning of the year, I get to celebrate my wedding anniversary. 13th of January. Every year, we don't skip one. A lot of times we go to, like, somewhere tropical, have a nice little holiday celebrated like that. But this year, we are staying at home. We're going to New Zealand next month, but.

[Scott]

Okay.

[Jordan James]

Photography takes me around the world, man. It's awesome. Oh, yeah, yeah. But this year we're. We're staying at home for the. For the wedding anniversary. Well, not at home in England. And we're celebrating it as a family because for us, it's not just a celebration of 25 years of us as a couple. It's 25 years of us as a family and us becoming a couple. But getting married was the beginning of our family, not just the beginning of our relationship.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

So for us, it's celebrating 25 years of Lord of the Rings.

[Sylvia]

What? What?

[Jordan James]

What?

[Scott]

I like it. No, it's accurate. Yeah, it's accurate.

[Jordan James]

25 years of Lord of the Rings and.

[Scott]

Gentlemen.

[Jordan James]

I'm not. No.

[Scott]

And.

[Jordan James]

And. And 25 years of. Of being a family, which is why we're celebrating it by watching all three. Yes. Special editions, obviously, Lord of the Rings over the weekend. Sylvia is here. She is doing a face. Why are you doing a face?

[Sylvia]

I'm not doing a face.

[Jordan James]

I thought you wanted to watch it.

[Sylvia]

I do, but it is many hours.

[Scott]

It is many, many, many hours.

[Jordan James]

That's. All right, well, we'll give. We'll give you a little stimming toy and you can squeeze it.

[Sylvia]

I think I made that.

[Jordan James]

You're gonna make Elvish bread?

[Sylvia]

Yeah, I'll just keep eating.

[Scott]

Anyway. Anyway, welcome back. Yeah. So one of the reasons as to why I think it's really important to discuss this on this show is because it is a. It's a fantastic milestone. And I think there is an awful lot of stigma around neurodivergent people, especially from the holistic neurotypical community or those that are just, you know, coming to late. Self diagnosis or diagnosis is that success. There is a stigma around the idea of what success is to neurodivergent people. I had an experience only the other day where I had an interaction with a lady where I got onto the topic of being a neurodivergent advocate. And she was surprised to learn that I owned a house, I had a job, I had a partner that I want to spend the rest of my life with. I own a dog. And it's like I made her head explode at the fact that I live a relatively normal, quote unquote life. But I think it's really important to talk about this sort of success that both you and Sylvia have had, Jordan, because 25 years of marriage is a huge achievement. It really is a huge achievement in this modern world. And I would love to just sort of start by asking each of you, you don't have to say at the same time, just one at a time, if you could, please, what. What does the milestone feel like to you? You've been married for 25 years.

[Jordan James]

I mean, for me, I don't see. I don't see the success as the amount of time because there's lots of people that have spent lifetimes together. But it doesn't mean that they were happy or it doesn't mean they really achieved anything. They could be married for 50 years and fecking hate each other.

[Scott]

A couple descend from a few of them.

[Jordan James]

Literally. Literally. I mean, I got brought up by people that were just absolutely hated each other and was always fighting and fighting. And they were married for well over 25 years. I think the success. And disagree with me if you want, babe. I think the success that we have is not the amount of time, it's the fact that that amount of time has passed and we are still laughing and playing and teasing and just acting literally like the most in love couple. And I can give you the exact example of that. Literally a couple of hours ago we were in the gym and Sylvia is doing these, like, stretching movements and her hands up in the air. And I walked past and just high fived her and she. And then I went to give her a kiss and she went, no, not with that ginger beard. And as I was kissing her, she couldn't stop laughing. And she's rolling on the floor trying to get away from me. And this is in the middle of the gym on, like, on these mats, and there's so many people around us and we're literally giggling like little kids and playing. And that is just us all the time. That's, for me, that's the success is you look through everything that we've been through, the hard times, the good times, the poor times, the better off times, and yet all those things, we just came out stronger as a couple because so many couples could have broken up so many times with some of the things that we had to go through, especially with my mental health and Sylvia's mental health, not to mention the fact that we got, you know, neurodivergent kids and all the things we've been through and we've come out and we're literally just obsessed with each other. Just obsessed. So that for me is the biggest achievement 25 years is that we are so in love. And I don't. And some people say, oh, it's like you're still on your honeymoon. And I always disagree with that because I said, it's not like we're on a honeymoon because a honeymoon means that we don't really know each other because when we never really had a honeymoon, but if we had, we would have known each other. But after 25 years, you know each other, you know everything about each other. So after 25 years, if you can still act so much in love when you know everything about each other, all the bad, all the good, that's. That's way better than a honeymoon period. That is just true love.

[Scott]

That's beautiful.

[Sylvia]

What was the question again? Yeah, I was just listening. I'm like, oh, yeah. I think it's just, you know, the 25 years we had, it just doesn't feel like it for me. It just, it goes, it just went. But it feels like we just, we just started there. I don't know how is how you said. It's just lots of different things happening. But the time such of not. I don't know how to describe it. It doesn't feel like he moved that much. And we still. I still feel like I'm in my 20s. When we first got together, you still look like you. And we're just having fun and we're trying to figure out things and just go with it and work it out. How women to do it. What is the, you know, way to move forward from other sometimes really difficult situations. But I think how you said, yeah, we, we always try to work together towards somewhere and we never. Well, it's not like we don't have a disagreements, absolutely. Sometimes we have a massive disagreements, but we always end up on the same page, which is I think the most important part for everybody to move on and have the years looking, I think, looking for further years forward together. Otherwise you just, you just there and someone else is there, but in the same house and they don't actually like being roommates. Yeah, basically, where we more like we're like a partners in crime.

[Scott]

Yeah, but I know what you mean. Like the, the phrase that comes to mind for what you're explaining to me. So every time flies when you're having fun.

[Sylvia]

Yeah, basically. Yeah. It just, even though there is, don't get me wrong, there's lots of bad times with the 25 years because. No, because it's not like so many terrible, you know, roses and chocolates and I don't know what people can imagine about being together. It's a hardship. It is difficult times, and there's a beautiful times. It's lots of fun. There's lots of misery also. But you have to go through all of those to get on the other side. That's what I figure out, I think.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, I mean, I do feel like is like climbing a mountain. You know, you can have some bad weather and you can have some slippery mud or ice, or when you get.

[Sylvia]

Up the top, you're like, oh, wow.

[Advertisement Voice]

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[Jordan James]

But even halfway up the top, you can sit down, you can have a picnic, you could see a beautiful view even halfway. But then when you, when you're reaching, not really.

[Sylvia]

Not when you're going to Ben Nevis. That was rubbish. I'll never go on that one again.

[Jordan James]

Right? It's a metaphor.

[Scott]

Well, I'm intrigued, guys, and it's not real mountain. Yeah, that's true. Well, metaphorically speaking, of course. But one of the things that I'm intrigued by is that in my sort of understanding of your marriage as, as friends of you guys, and is that for a lot of it, you were undiagnosed. You didn't realize that you were neurodivergent. And one of the things that I'm interested about is that in so many of my previous relationships, not that there's been lots of them, but in the relationships that I have had, my sensory needs or like, my emotional outbursts have caused a lot of issues for, for the other person, not just for me. And I'm intrigued. When did you guys really start, like, recognizing and honoring each other's, like, sensory needs or emotional needs? And, you know, how did that change your relationship when you started to really accept and recognize each other as neurodivergent?

[Jordan James]

I, I, I think it, we were accepting each other's emotional needs and sensory needs way before we even understood what neurodivergence was. Yeah, we were always making accommodations. I personally feel it's a different adaptation to things.

[Sylvia]

What if you have something particular, you just adapt to it and you Know how to, how to, you know, deal with it, I think.

[Jordan James]

Yes. And that's what I was about to say. I personally feel that you were definitely better at it than I was. So you, you could adapt to my moods, you could understand or to a certain woman.

[Sylvia]

I can adapt to anything.

[Jordan James]

That is very true. Men, bad. Women, great. Oh, all right. And so you were always very, very accommodating, or at least you were trying to be accommodating because, you know, you knew I had my anger issues, but you know, you didn't realize it was neurodivergence. You just thought, well, that's really bad parenting. You'd met my parents, you know, know what I went through. You knew how they, they treated me to a certain extent and, But I didn't know enough about your background because you're very stoic like that, that you don't give a lot away and that you would rather, and I don't say this lightly, suffer in silence.

[Scott]

You do have a poker face, Sylvia, for sure.

[Sylvia]

I think it's my way to just deal with things. You don't need to know everything from my background to know me, I suppose.

[Jordan James]

Right. But you, I mean, I, I, my meltdowns were bad.

[Sylvia]

I, I just can't, I suppose I think the main issue is I'm not so easily to talk about things. I am a con, really reflect on lots of things and, and you are much better about realizing stuff and understanding mode of your childhood and things where I'm not. I don't like to really. I just, if I had something bad in my head, I just put it there and I never remember. Only until someone told me something to remember. Then I will go back to it. But I'm this kind of person. Something bad happened. Okay, leave it.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, you decompartmentalize.

[Sylvia]

I just put them away and just leave it.

[Jordan James]

Whereas if I decompartmentalize, everyone just leaves the doors open.

[Scott]

It's like rumination is something that in my own relationship is something that I've always had to almost like an extreme. And there's been a lot of times where I have put pressure on my ex partners to be more expressive because I feel overly expressive. But I think you've, you've both almost got quite a good dynamic, I think, just as your friends. I think you both complement each other very, very well in the way that I know Jordan, when you are upset and you have meltdowns, you are like me. You are very expressive and quite visually emotional and a vocal processor. Whereas Sylvia reminds me a lot of Karis in that she's an internal processor. And when I do have my moments of blowing up, like I know Jordan has, she's very good at sort of just letting me almost like, fizzle out and burn out and then helps me on the other side, if that makes sense.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. I think in the first 10 years of our relationship, you wouldn't recognize the people that you have here. You just wouldn't. We. We. We did. We had lots and lots of fun, and we loved spending time together. We've always loved spending time together. Because the most important thing about our relationship is not that we're just a married couple, not that we're a mum and dad. Everyone always says, oh, yeah, we're mum and dad. We're not mum and dad. We are a mum and a dad, but we're not mum and dad. We are Sylvia and Jordan. And we are friends. And that is the key thing, is that Sylvia and I were friends. I was in a different relationship when I first met Sylvia, and Sylvia and I were just friends. But that relationship ended not because of Sylvia. It ended because of a different reason. And then that friendship then grew into something more. And because we were friends first. Mushrooms. It grew into mushrooms. Thanks, bud.

[Scott]

Because it's a fun guy.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, exactly.

[Sylvia]

He was a fun guy. That's the only reason I kind of go out with him. Because at first, I didn't really like the guy. No. He was like, ugh. I'm like, he's not all that. It's not very tall.

[Scott]

Oh, well, that hurt me physically and mentally right there.

[Jordan James]

Christ, I'm taller than.

[Scott]

He's taller than me.

[Sylvia]

I know, But I am quite a tall woman. And I like, like a tall guy. And I was like, oh, he's only like, an inch taller than me.

[Scott]

Can I wear heels with.

[Jordan James]

Hey, look, every inch matters, baby.

[Scott]

That's not a question on this. On this list, But I'll stick it in the end.

[Jordan James]

I'll stick it in an end.

[Sylvia]

Oh, but he was a very fun guy and make me laugh a lot. And I think that's how our relations start, because we had so much fun and we just enjoy every minute spent together. And this is still like that. I still love it when every time I go to work and we don't see each other because we have different ship, we have to talk to each other. We're on the phone joking or just sending each other messages. It's like if someone asking, well, who are you talking to? It's my husband. Why would you talk to your Husband all the time. I just love it. I love talking to my husband all the time. I like to joke. I love to have a fun. I like to. We just have a weird little back and forth and, and just lots of. I, I enjoyment coming out of that.

[Jordan James]

I definitely feel like we're in a gang, and that gang just is just two of us. Like, it's, it's just us. And then there's like a naughty kids.

[Sylvia]

Doing naughty things and then, and, and, and just, you know, just go with it. And sometimes our kids tell us it's like, oh, my God, you two just, you know.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. But in the first 10 years, because of my anger issues, because I was still dealing, my brother's death was very, very raw. The abuse that I'd suffered through, through my, my, mostly my mother and sometimes my, My father was very raw. It had just been happening to me.

[Scott]

It was still happening to you, really?

[Jordan James]

And I didn't. And, yeah, and it was, it was still happening. My mother still had her claws in me. Yeah, yeah, it was still happening. And I didn't understand what was wrong with me. I literally, I just kept thinking, oh, I'm a thug. I just kept believing everything everybody was telling me about myself, that I was bad news, that I was trouble. It's one of the reasons why Sylvia didn't really.

[Sylvia]

Black sheep of the family.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. You didn't really like me in the first place or want to hang out with me because of what everyone has said about me. And then as soon as you got to know me, you were like, oh, actually, he's not. Like everyone says is way, way worse.

[Scott]

But one of the things that I pick up from you guys, and I feel like I have this with my own partner in abundance. And from a lot of the neurodivergent couples I meet, the chemistry is off the charts. Like, you can so tell, in my opinion, of, like, my own parents and neurodivergent parents, and that I can still see sometimes when they're joking about and laughing with each other. The two kids that met each other when they were 15, I can still see it. And it's. And it's a beautiful thing to witness seeing somebody's in a child be authentic, in their 40s, deep into their 50s. I think it's, it's wonderful. But we'll take a little break here. And one of the things that has had detrimental effects on my past relationships has been meltdowns. And I think we'll, we'll delve into that next.

[Sylvia]

Cool.

[Jordan James]

Can I have a Kit Kat no. Dreaming of getting the all new iPhone 17 Pro designed to be the most powerful iPhone ever.

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[Advertisement Voice]

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[Jordan James]

Oh right.

[Scott]

Delivery available for select devices [e-mail] terms apply.

[Elise Hu]

Hey, this is Elise Hu from TED Talks Daily and I'd love to tell you about Whole Foods Marketing. You know what I love about January? It's that fresh start energy we all feel. And this year I'm actually going to try and keep my goals realistic, which means I need places that make healthy choices easy and affordable. That's why I've been spending more time at my local Whole Foods Market. The thing is, Whole Foods Market makes it possible to stick with those New Year intentions without meal prepping for hours or breaking the bank. Shop all things wellness at Whole Foods Market.

[Scott]

This is a neurodivergent experience Public Announcement if you live in England and you or a loved one is waiting for an autism or ADHD assessment, you don't have to wait years. RTN Diagnostics is now part of the NHS Right to Choose scheme, which means if your local wait for a consultant led autism or ADHD assessment is more than 18 weeks, you can choose RTN instead and it won't cost you a penny. Jordan chose RTN for his own family because their care and attention to detail were second to none. They didn't just diagnose autism and adhd, they looked at the full picture, including pda, ocd, anxiety and more. The team is friendly, neuroaffirming and comprises many neurodivergent individuals so they truly understand getting started is simple. Download the GP referral letter and questionnaire from the link in our show notes, take those to your GP and ask for a referral to RTN Diagnostics. If approved, RTN will be in touch within eight weeks to begin your assessment. Remember, this only applies in England and some exclusions do apply. RTN is not currently able to accept referrals for child ADHD assessments, so check the details before you start RTN diagnostics, helping you get the answers you deserve without the wait. Welcome back to the neurodivergent experience, the first one of 2026. Go what a year. Well, we've been talking with Jordan, as I always do, and we've got his wonderful wife Sylvia here and we've been discussing celebrating 25 years of marriage and as a neurodivergent couple, I think as we've already discussed, like chemistry and and being friends is wonderful, but unfortunately, one of the things that so many neurodivergent people have in common is meltdowns and everything that comes with that. The. The explosion, the. The feeling of guilt and shame that is just drowning in. In it when you. When you come out of the other end of it. And meltdowns have caused an awful lot of issues. In my own previous relationships, I've been labeled as a crybaby or it was over. Dramatic. I've had. I've had a lot of labels when I've had meltdowns, when I've been really struggling with my mental health. And obviously, in 25 years of marriage, there's gonna be a few meltdowns have been had on. On both sides of the relationship.

[Jordan James]

Three.

[Scott]

Just the. Oh, you. Wow.

[Sylvia]

Three. Yesterday.

[Jordan James]

Yeah.

[Scott]

This was the part of my brain that can't decipher sarcasm was like just three a week. Three a week. But I'm intrigued to know, guys, the support that each of you have put in place for each other, what actually helps when either of you are having a meltdown? What have you learned with each other as prevention because you're both such different characters. And Sylvia, I must admit, I don't know you as well as I know Jordan. I wouldn't know what one of your meltdowns looks like. So I'm intrigued just to sort of.

[Sylvia]

Hear your bed to sleep.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. Do you know what? When. I know when Sylvia's in a meltdown, and I don't think she even knows this as I'm saying this, but I know what your meltdowns are. Your meltdowns are you start cleaning. You deal with being overwhelmed or being overstressed or by creating a nest like. Like. Like. Like a bird. And. And you go around and you create your nest. You know when Ollie tries to snuggle up and he sort of moves the pillows around?

[Scott]

This is the dog, not the kid.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, sorry. Yeah, this dog.

[Scott]

Just for listeners that aren't aware.

[Sylvia]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

Or, like, he'll lay on, like, some. If my. My trousers are on the floor or something. He'll literally create, like, a little nest to snuggle in that makes him comfortable. And that's you. You will go around the house and you will literally create a comfortable area that you can then decompress in. That. That's your. That's your version of a meltdown, is that you just. You just find safety, and then you almost, like, you won't just want to hibernate away, so it's more like a shutdown.

[Sylvia]

Yeah. Rather than a mountain have like expressive out going kind of mel done like yours. My ones are just. I prefer just, just closing and just.

[Jordan James]

And just shut the world away.

[Sylvia]

Yeah, that my kind of melt and yeah, I probably. I love. I don't think I love cleaning, but I do kind of clean when I'm upset.

[Jordan James]

Well, I don't think anyone likes clean. I mean people.

[Scott]

No, I don't.

[Jordan James]

I don't think people love cleaning.

[Scott]

My favorite thing to do.

[Jordan James]

You do clean because it also distracts you from what you're.

[Sylvia]

I very much like a clean house, but I don't like cleaning.

[Scott]

Yeah, tell me about it.

[Jordan James]

But yeah, my, my meltdowns. I mean I've talked about my meltdowns a lot on the show.

[Sylvia]

Your meltdowns are more expressive, explosive and outgoing kind of. Yeah, I mean you would know straight.

[Jordan James]

Away where you knuckles and I mean I've hurt myself physically. You know, I've. I've self harmed. Sorry for everyone listening but I have mine. Mine are very much more in line with somebody that's received serious aggressive physical trauma, which obviously I did do. Emotional and physical trauma where when something went wrong in the house, people would throw things, people would scream and shout and smack and punch and kick me while I was on the floor. That's the sort of thing that I grew up with. So it was very normal. It was a normal thing that when you were angry that, you know, got broken like so many times. I remember literally like Rainier, my birth mother threw through a lump, a massive piece of cheese through a window and it. And. And the glass shattered next to my face.

[Scott]

So that was just normal understanding of expression for you as a young, young man then.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, just, just breaking. So when I did that and then everyone was like, you're a terrible person. I'm like, but that's what you taught me. So trying to get away from that was. Was I. It was so hard. It was so hard to escape that. And as I've said a billion times, that's. That finally happened last year. I finally got rid of that anger. But meltdowns, understanding why I was doing that. So having that self awareness to say, well this is what happened to me when I was a child. It is not my fault, but if I don't do something about it, then it is my fault. And then doing something about it. That journey we talk about, success, that is success is, you know, you don't have to be a perfect person, but you can work on being as perfect a person as you possibly can be. But if you don't want to work on yourself. If you just turn around and go, well, I'm traumatized, it's my parents fault. And then you carry on being the joker, you carry on being a dick. You carry on doing things you shouldn't.

[Scott]

Do with awareness that you're doing it.

[Sylvia]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

And then just blame everyone else. That. That makes you the problem. But having meltdowns and I'll talk about a meltdown that I had the other day. So my meltdown the other day, it was quite interesting one, wasn't it, babe? It was Sylvia knocked down one of my pop characters and it broke one that I particularly love. It's from a collection of the Monty Python the Holy Grail collection. And it's Tim the Sorcerer and his horn broke. And it's not Sylvia's fault. And I'm not angry with Sylvia. I don't, I don't ever express anger towards people. I express anger at the situation. So I'm like, I'm looking at my pop character. It's broken. I'm really, really upset. Not again, not at Sylvia, but just because it's happened. I'm looking at my. It's.

[Scott]

It's both.

[Jordan James]

I'm sad and I'm standing there, I'm going, okay, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. I'm. I'm actively saying this out loud. It's fine. Calm down, calm down, calm down. And I'm doing everything I can. I'm breathing, I'm doing everything I can. I'm like, it's happened. And I still went to smack the. It's like everyone listening is like, he hit his wife. No, I didn't smack my wife. I smacked our stall. So we, we have a bar stool. Yeah, it's a bar stool up at the breakfast bar. And as I went to hit it, it's like at the last second, I'm holding back and I kind of just pushed it. I just knocked it over rather than smacking it over. And then I grabbed like a raggedy old tea towel and I tore this tea towel in half. Later on, Sophie went, how on earth did you do that? I was like, Hulk Hogan? Yeah, I Hulk Hogan.

[Scott]

Autistic strength is a thing. Yeah.

[Jordan James]

Literally, this is how upset I was. So rather than punching something or smacking something or breaking something, I mean, technically I broke a tea towel, but it's a ragged old tea towel, like, was 25 years old.

[Sylvia]

Just like our. I bought in Ikea.

[Jordan James]

And now it's a rag to clean my car with. So, you know, everything can be used.

[Sylvia]

Recycling into the pond.

[Jordan James]

So I tore this up like a piece of paper. That is how angry I was and how weirdly strong I am. And then I wrapped the tea towel around my wrist, so around my knuckles, and I punched the breakfast bar. I didn't even punch that hard, but I had this awareness of just like, don't break your knuckle again. But I still couldn't control myself enough, so it was almost like I was going to be in an accident. But this time, I remembered to put on my seat belt and activate the. What do you call them?

[Sylvia]

Airbags.

[Jordan James]

The airbags. Thanks, bud. And it was the weirdest thing. And then Sylvia's look. And then I literally had. And then I finished, and I punched it once. And then Sylvia's just standing there, and she's just smiling at me, and she's like, I've got the gorilla glue. She. While this was happening, she just went and got the gorilla glue. Waited until I calmed down. Rather than judging me, rather than screaming at me, rather than being like, oh, stop that. She just waited for it to happen and then went, I've got the gorilla glue. And then she just handed me the gorilla glue. Because it's also like, you know, you fix it. You can fix this. And. And. And it did. I fixed it. And that right there, that moment, that meltdown is. And this sounds, like, weird, but that is. That is a great meltdown because it just shows you how far We've come in 25 years as a couple that not only did I not go completely crazy, not only did it only last for, like, 30 seconds at the most, but it was controlled. And then Silva's reaction to it could make me literally cry with joy of how amazing my best friend is. And now it's fixed, by the way. It's fine.

[Scott]

I think that's wonderful that you recognize, Sylvia, that Jordan needs space, that he needs to let it out. Like I was explaining, I had a meltdown earlier this week. I had a real confrontation with imposter syndrome. Went back to work on. On Monday, Blue Monday, and sat at my desk and went, I don't know how to do my job. Who am I? Oh, my God. And I rang Jordan about it, and I rang my dad about it, and through verbal process. And I realized, for me, a meltdown feels like having food poisoning. I've got to get it out. If I repress it or push it in, I get that Coke bottle effect. And I'm fortunate that a lot of People around me can see it coming and don't try and repress it, and they don't throw gasoline on it. They just let it. They understand that it's not their fault, but it's also not mine. And that has been so, so freeing in my life to be given that space to be unapologetically the worst of myself and not be judged post of it. But in saying that, I'm intrigued. Jordan, how do you respond when Sylvia goes into shutdown? What do you do? Do you just sort of let it. Let it be or what. What's. What's your sort of, you know, steps to sort of intervene when Sylvia's having her meltdowns or shutdowns?

[Sylvia]

He normally tried to help me clean. I'm like, it's like, I do this. And I'm like, no, just leave it.

[Jordan James]

I'm just like, I. You know how when someone's hoovering and they want to hoover by your feet? So you just sit on the city with you with your feet up? Yeah, I got a fetal position. I'm just like, I will just stay as much out of the way.

[Scott]

I am invisible. They cannot see me.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. I kind of go, oh, my back's really hurting. I need to just lay down, and I just run off.

[Sylvia]

No, he does. He kind of tried to help, but he doesn't normally. It doesn't necessarily work, but he's just trying his best to just sort of like, fuse it down a bit or something or. He always said, oh, shall we go out and do something? And I'm like, yeah, we can go out and do something.

[Jordan James]

No, it's like, if I see it, and then. And then I can see that she's really struggling, and she's like, oh, I've got to cook dinner. And I'm just like, no, I can do it. Or I just. I just. Why don't we just go out?

[Sylvia]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

And then she's, oh, I don't want to go out anywhere. I don't want to go out anywhere. So I said, okay, so what do you want to do? And she's like, I want to. I just want to cook. I just want to cook. And I'm like, okay, okay. But I will always give her options, But I won't push those options. I just let her decide what she wants to do. But I said, look, I'm here. I can. I can either help you cook, I can cook for you. I can go and get food for you.

[Sylvia]

Don't cook for me.

[Jordan James]

I'm a good cook.

[Sylvia]

Mini pants, salts Everything triple. And then it's like, it's not dirty enough. I'm like, oh, I am. I'm not eating your salty saltness. Goodness, whatever.

[Jordan James]

That's it. 25 years is over. You.

[Scott]

But. But I. But I hear what you're saying. Like, you give. I think what you're doing there is super helpful because I myself have a. Of another. Other half. Another half who goes into shutdown. And the more I push her, the further she goes into it. So I try my very best to give her outs in that. Karis is also. We will be sat chilling out. She'll ruminate on something, and the next thing I know, she's deep cleaning the entire house at half 10 on a Monday night. And I sort of do the same. I try to help, but also get out of the way. And I try to give her outs. I go, would you like me to go and walk the dogs that you've got the house for half an hour? Would you like me to make you a hot chocolate or something? I just try and not pressurize her to be like, you're in a. You're in a shutdown. I need. I need to get you out of this. I'm going to save you. That's not. Not the energy at all. It's more of a. I'm just trying to almost, like, comfort you.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. I. What I will also do is if showbiz, I will listen to Sylvia more intently because I'm. You know, it's like. It's like PDA just is brushed aside, and I will actively be like, okay. You know, it's. It's like that. That dad instinct, you know, that husband instinct of, like, protective instinct of, like, I don't care about me right now. I just want her to feel better. So she will be like, oh, I really, really need this. And I'll be like. And I'll just go and do it. I'll be like, I'll do it for you, and I'll just go and do it. Whereas. Whereas if. If that was me, and I'm like, I really need this. And then PDA would kick in, and then it would be. It would be a real struggle to do it. But it's like last night, you know, Sylvia's been having these, like, cramps, and she said, oh, really, really want some paracetamol? And she asked me, do you have any paracetamol, like, next to me? Because we're laying in bed, and a lot of the times I. I do because of my back, and I'm like, no, but I'll go and get some. And I jump out of bed. We're all cozy, comfy. And that's a hard thing for me to do. Like, comfy, cozy, getting out of bed, going downstairs, finding the posture. And it all sounds like we've been through this before. It all sounds like a very, very normal thing for somebody to do. Go downstairs and go and get some, you know, painkillers and come back upstairs. But, you know, PDA does not make that an easy task. But the. The fact that my wife needs it makes it the easiest task in the world because I just want her to be okay. I could be laying there in pain, wanting painkillers, and I probably wouldn't get up and go down and get them because of pda. But I see Sylvia needing them, and it's literally. It's just an instinct. It's not a problem. I am going to go and get those. And it's like, anything that Sylvia wants. Anything that Sylvia needs.

[Sylvia]

Anything.

[Jordan James]

Anything. You mean anything?

[Advertisement Voice]

Anything.

[Jordan James]

There's always anything. And I am just. I'm there. It is the easiest thing for me in the world to do something for my wife, but it is the hardest thing in the world to do something for myself.

[Scott]

Oh, say it for the people in the back, but you've. You've touched on something, bro. Which really is just, you know, little light bulb in my mind. And when Caris and I first got together and she was coming more out of her shell and. And being more authentic to sort of her inner child, and it gave me the space to do the same. And it's been one of the, like, the. My favorite things about our friendship as well as our relationship. But she taught me an incredibly valuable lesson as a verbal processor in that there was one time she was having a really shit time at work, and I was just trying to fix the problem, and she turned to me and she went, I'm not looking for advice. I'm looking for you to listen. I went, okay. And I just let her process it. And she figured it out herself, but she just needed to get it out. And that taught me a huge lesson about myself because I'm a verbal processor. And I then learned the language to turn to people and go, I'm not looking for advice. I'm just looking for somebody to info dump what the fuck's going on in my head right now. And that's been a such a great part of my relationship. It's been wonderful. But I want to just before we go to a break, I'M really intrigued to know when either of you are having meltdowns or shutdowns. How do you reconnect and sort of repair after those moments? Like if Jordan's had his is, you know, I'm talking like an hour to two hours a day after a meltdown when the sort of the shame and the guilt and the cortisol levels go up and your body's in nervous system stress and what do you do for each other that helps just sort of bring you back down to reality and regulation?

[Jordan James]

Well, I must say Scotty, what really helps us repair is Gorilla Glue.

[Scott]

Available in all good hardware stores.

[Jordan James]

Neurodivergent experience. Sponsored unofficially by Gorilla Glue. Yeah, if you have a child and they have regular meltdowns, buy Gorilla Glue.

[Scott]

Stink doesn't normally have a little left of mother walk. He'll tucker himself out.

[Jordan James]

No, in business. Yeah. So what, what do you do?

[Sylvia]

Oh we, well after the meltdown normally we just have a little cuddle, have a cup of tea, coffee and off we go easy.

[Jordan James]

We snack.

[Sylvia]

We don't snack. I don't snack. He snacks.

[Jordan James]

Wow, you literally.

[Sylvia]

I drink tea and coffee. That's my snack.

[Jordan James]

You, where's the ice cream?

[Scott]

There is nothing a sweet treat will not fix for my girl for sure. That's, that's my go to. I go, you will lose sweet treat. And that's just sort of what turns it around. But I'm so glad said that Sylvia, because for me, my other half, she gets hold of me. She holds me and she hugs me and she strokes my hair and makes me feel safe. That's the, the big thing for me.

[Jordan James]

I think in the days after, especially in the past when the meltdowns were really bad and obviously before we understood them, it wasn't great. I would, I would hate myself because I'd lose it and I would say horrible things and I would and I. And I didn't even know I was saying them. It was like someone else was saying them. It's a horrible thing. It's a horrible thing for Sylvia to have gone through. I was never ever physical. I must always mention it. The only person I ever, ever hurt, ever. Who was the only person I ever hurt in a meltdown?

[Sylvia]

By yourself.

[Jordan James]

Myself. I only ever hurt myself physically, emotionally. Another thing, I was nasty. I would bite. I would, you know, not physically bite, but verbally be like say horrible things. And in one way that was my version of self harm. I was. I'm going to push this person away because I. Because she's too good for Me, she's too good for me because I didn't feel like I was good enough. So there was that part of it. And again, amazing self awareness to be able to understand that. But a lot of work to get to this point. But it was, it was also because that was what like I said earlier, that's what the norm was when I was growing up.

[Sylvia]

You find out that later at first you didn't even understand, dude. It's just like if someone else pointed to you be like, no, I didn't. And they'd be like, yeah, yeah, you did.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. I wouldn't even realize that I'd said or done something. A lot of the time some of.

[Sylvia]

Your friends say, know you just been so mean to like, I don't know any. And I'll be like, no, no, no, I didn't. And they're like, yeah, yeah, you have. And they're like, oh yeah. But nowadays it's more you would know. But back then you just didn't realize.

[Jordan James]

I didn't get it, did I? I, I didn't understand sometimes the, especially in those moments what I was saying and how it was making other people feel, you know, that that's why I think a lot of people would say, oh yeah, no, he lacks empathy. And it wasn't, I lacked empathy. It was like I lacked understanding of, of, of other people's empathy. And I know that people say, oh well, that's empathy. It's like, well, no, empathy is putting yourself in someone else's shoes. But if I was, with what I was saying and what I was trying to make a point of, I thought I was helping people a lot of the times, but that, that's less meltdown and just more social awkwardness and, and social interactions. But then you like meltdowns, especially like verbal meltdowns. That lack of social understanding, that lack of social skills, then added with anger. So then you end up saying some horrible things, but you don't realize how horrible they were. You just thought, oh, they were a little bit bad, but you don't realize how bad they were. I mean, yeah, like just. I'm not going to go into details because I feel like, you know, it's not necessary. But I have hated myself the days after. And then it's literally like just making up. And I've heard and I've watched TV shows where you have these abusive men and they treat women like absolute crap. And I think, and a lot of times I'd watch them and go, oh my God, is that me? Am I that person and so be like, no, that's not you. Because those men who are doing that, that's just what they do all the time. That's their personality. She said, 9 times out of 10 you are this wonderful person. And then every now and again you become that person, that, that, that man there, that, that abuser.

[Sylvia]

But that was long term and oh.

[Jordan James]

That was a long time ago. We talk, we're talking like probably 15.

[Sylvia]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jordan James]

Maybe even 20 years ago. And only. And even in the first five, five years it was, it wasn't great. And then it. But obviously we weren't a bit. Financial situations. We had little kids and we were growing up. We were little kids and I was 19. 19.

[Sylvia]

We were kids playing adult game.

[Jordan James]

I have a 24 year old like Sims.

[Sylvia]

You know when you try to build little house and try to put your little furnitures there and try to grow up, get your jobs and live. It literally is like a little sim games. When we look googly googly, we would.

[Jordan James]

We were children playing house. That's what we were. We were children playing house for the first time and thinking we're grown ups. But we were, we had to be grown ups. We had children, we had mortgage, we had bills, we had full time jobs that we both fecking hated. It was just tough. And I was working permanent nights. I was tired.

[Sylvia]

You work nights, I work days. We kind of meet up in a. Oh, hey, how is your work? Oh, goodbye.

[Jordan James]

I see you later.

[Sylvia]

Take the kids to school, feed them, I pick them up. We had like a schedule plan as they say.

[Jordan James]

It was, it was really, really hard. So when I, when I had my meltdowns, there were hard meltdowns. But as soon as you figured out I was autistic and as soon as.

[Sylvia]

I, but I figure out, I figure out you. Even before that I just knew how to deal with you. It's just, I just had my plan and I'm like, okay, I just do that. And then you'd be fine. And those meltdowns wasn't coming as often because you would just kind of need, I don't know, you would just.

[Jordan James]

I think it wasn't the fact that they, they weren't happening, they were happening.

[Sylvia]

In a different way.

[Jordan James]

It was the fact that because you recognized what they were, you, your reaction changed. So they, when they happened, they didn't escalate.

[Sylvia]

Yes. They didn't last for like instead of whole day. It would just be, you know, that moment short period like and, and it's been done and we can move on.

[Jordan James]

I think one. One of my favorite moments, and we can go back after this, but one of my favorite moments of realizing how much my family understood my meltdowns and how much my family were accepting and loving of me was when we went to go and take pictures of a sunset. This is when obviously I got into photography and I'd taken the wrong lens and I was really upset because it was a really cool sunset and I had the wrong lens and I got angry and I swung the camera. When I picked it up, I swung the camera. It smacked me in the head accidentally. But the anger was the swinging of the camera. I just pulled the camera out and it smacked me in the head to. My head was bleeding. And I. I started kicking the tires of my car because I want to punch my car, kick my actual car. So I was kicking the tires because I knew I couldn't do any damage to them. And this was in front of my kids. You know, obviously they were in their late teens in front of Sylvia and emotional. And my kids were like, it's okay, Daddy. It's okay, it's okay, it's okay. And I was, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. And they were like, it's fine, it's okay. You're okay. And then Sylvia, right, And then Sylvia just went, you are an amazing photographer and you can take a picture with any lens. And I bet you with that lens, you will take amazing pictures. And you know what, dude? I did. And that, that is the sort of moment where you realize how far you've come and not only as a couple, but as a family.

[Scott]

Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. Guys, let's take a little break. And when we come back, I really want to delve into a little bit of wisdom that we can pass on and helping the inner child as well, because gotta have a bit of fun. Be right back.

[Elise Hu]

Hey, this is Elise Hu from TED Talks Daily, and I'd love to tell you about Whole Foods Marketing. You know what I love about January? It's that fresh start energy we all feel. And this year, I'm actually going to try and keep my goals realistic, which means I need places that make healthy choices easy and affordable. That's why I've been spending more time at my local Whole Foods Market. The thing is, Whole Foods Market makes it possible to stick with those new year intentions without meal prepping for hours or breaking the bank. Shop all things wellness at Whole Foods Market.

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[Elise Hu]

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My doctor about EPI and if Creon could help.

[Scott]

Have you ever felt stuck in patterns that don't serve you, struggled with stress or wanted to connect more deeply with yourself? Then I have to introduce you to a friend of the podcast Ashley Bentley of Integrated Coaching, Breathwork and Hypnotherapy. Ashley is a highly experienced clinical hypnotherapist and coach specializing in working with neurodivergent minds. Through a unique blend of integrative coaching, breathwork and hypnotherapy, Ashley helps people rewire subconscious patterns, regulate their nervous systems, step into more empowered versions of themselves. Whether you're dealing with addiction, anxiety, burnout or struggles with self acceptance, Ashley offers practical and science backed tools tailored just for you. Her unique methods combine neuroscience, storytelling, subconscious transformation to create real, lasting change. Jordan and I can personally attest to the profound and transformative effects of her sessions which have been life changing. She does all of these sessions online, meaning she can work with you no matter where you are in the world. If you're ready to break free from old patterns and start living with more clarity, confidence and connection, go to Bit Lynch Forward Slash Ashley NDE to book a free consultation or learn more. Welcome back to the Neurodivergent Experience. We've Been talking mariage, marriage, couples, relationships, 25 years of it as neurodivergent people and the journey of everything that comes along with that. One of the things that you both mentioned at the beginning of the show, obviously I'm here with Jordan and his wife Sylvia, and they were talking about how much fun they have together and the friendship they have and, you know, really allowing space just to play. So I'm intrigued, guys. What is it that you guys do that instigates that? Because for me, it's echolalia.

[Sylvia]

Oh, yeah, same. We have lots of little things and quarks where nobody gets it and they.

[Jordan James]

Look at us and they mostly happen at night.

[Sylvia]

Yeah, mostly.

[Jordan James]

That's one of them. They mostly come at night.

[Scott]

Mostly.

[Jordan James]

Mostly. Which I've said this before, this is that that is an echolalia of Cartman doing an echolalia of aliens, which is just funny.

[Sylvia]

Yeah. There's lots of things people just don't get it. We're like, oh, no, you don't have to get it. It's like, yeah, but it's strange or like, well, strange to you not to ask.

[Jordan James]

I, I have to admit, I think one of the things that we find the most funny and, and this, this might be like, to any of our friends listening or anything like that, is that when other couples, like, that's just like us. And I'm like, all right, if you say so.

[Sylvia]

Because you don't know how weird we are.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, I think it's. I think it's really great when you have people who are like, oh, yeah, we're really close. And if I post about how much. How close we are on Facebook and I get lots of lovely comments and yeah, my husband and I are that close. And I'm not saying that they're not, but there is this thing in the back of my mind. I'm like, are you though, Are you as close as we are? So we are very competitive. So we, we do have.

[Sylvia]

Always win.

[Scott]

Always.

[Sylvia]

No, I never win. He always wins. I just don't give up now.

[Jordan James]

It's not even competitive against each other. We're competitive against other people. So we, we will literally be like, I think we win best couple. I think you're fine. I think you find that we, we, we.

[Sylvia]

If it was a competition, like, like kind of some sort of things you have to do, like sport wise or game wise, we always want to win. We are just like. But we are competitive against each other hugely in anything we do. I think it's all our family. We Have a problem. I think really we have a problem.

[Jordan James]

Because everybody wants to win. It's brilliant. It's fun. Because that competitiveness, even if it's as a couple or it's separately, it. It makes games fun. It means that we want to play games because we want to beat each other. In fact, everyone in the house just wants to beat me, especially at Mario Kart.

[Scott]

Understandable.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. Or Mario Party. I'm the king of all Mario games and everyone. So they all gang up on me.

[Scott]

It's understandable.

[Sylvia]

And he always complained the games is, you know, screwing him over. And it doesn't.

[Scott]

It's never a steal issue. Yeah, it's a game issue.

[Jordan James]

It's the game.

[Sylvia]

It's always the games issue. If someone is beating him in anything.

[Scott]

It'S like, no, it did make me laugh, right. I came down and you were like, we're gonna play Mario Kart. I'm really good at it. But we're not playing with the squids, because the squids. I was like, well, the squids make it. I can drive the squids.

[Jordan James]

I've watched. I've watched actual professional Mario Kart players, and when they.

[Scott]

The.

[Jordan James]

The things they take off are the squids. That. That's what they take off. They take off the squids every single time. The professional Mario Kart.

[Sylvia]

But you're not a professional Mario player.

[Jordan James]

We are semi profess a 1p at me once I've been sort of paid. It was out of anger, but I took it.

[Scott]

But you can't put it in the trolley.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. Semi professional. I've earned one p playing America.

[Scott]

One of the things I've noticed as well with you guys is you have a very similar sort of energy to me and Caris is I. I used to hate to be teased, but she can tease me. Like. Like, I. I used to get really wound up when people used to point out my faults. And Caris doesn't point out my faults, but if I need to do something, she'll. She won't have a go at me for it. She'll laugh at me. And with me about it is like, if I forgot to do something, like yesterday, I forgot to feed because we've broken Nana's meals into four because she eats too much and we've had to, like, lower her diet and, like, spread it out. And literally yesterday I got on a hyper focus reading about something and I forgot to give her a fourth meal. And rather than when Carys opened the fridge, she turned to me and she was like, oh, you've forgotten to feed the dog. Like that can't happen again. That's really bad. She was just like, well, this is why mummy's the favorite because mummy never forgets to feed you like daddy does, does she? Oh, poor daddy. And that really helped me not feel bad about it. But it was, it kind of was fun. And we have like all of these like echolalia moments. Like we both call each other big baby. And it comes from this old YouTube video that we both watched where we were at school where it's like, oh, look at the little baby. And the little baby goes, whoa. It was all, look at a big baby. It's like a 50 foot baby that goes, whoa. And we both joke about it. We always go, look at the big baby. Look at little baby. And we also do, you know in Toy Story 3 when he goes learn lot. So turns to the baby and he goes, she doesn't love you no more. Come on, big Baby. Like we do that a lot. Like when the dog will jump off the chair from Caris and she'll come with me, she'll go, she don't love you no more. Oh, big baby. And we, we're constantly joking. It's like an improv class. Constantly. We're just constantly laughing with each other and bringing up things that we really like. And another thing that Caris doesn't do as well, which I am super grateful for. She doesn't poo poo my special interests. She doesn't yuck my yum.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. So I was going to bring this up is that I think at the, in, in the beginning of our relationship when, when I would get my very, very neurodivergent hyper fixation because there's a difference in hyper focus and hyper fixations. So my hyper fixations and then I'll like deeply, deeply go into something and then I'm very much like, get the T shirt, you know, get the hoodie, get, get the trainers, get, get, get the, get the cuddly toys. Like I, I, I have to not only absorb knowledge about my hyper fixation at the time in order to, you know, help me with my dopamine fix. But again, that, that's something that, that I'm understanding now that I didn't understand then at all about my lack of, of dopamine, you know, having a neurodivergent alternative neurotype mind. I struggle creating dopamine. So I have to create dopamine for myself. And that, that need for dopamine along with my hyper fixations ended up with Me just having loads of things. And Sylvia at first just could not understand that because she, you know, you grew up in.

[Sylvia]

It's not that I understand. It's just weird. We didn't have much money and he was spending things on stuff we just didn't.

[Jordan James]

It was in charity shops and car boot sales.

[Sylvia]

It doesn't matter. It all adds up. And we need to buy other things.

[Scott]

But that's the thing is Jordan did, Did need it.

[Sylvia]

I, I have, I get it. And I didn't. Because back then we had no money. Literally. Not every penny was counted. Like, counted to the point where it's needed and then suddenly you spend it. And then we had to cut down on other things we actually need function with. We need food to live, we need fuel to go to work. And you spent it on something sitting on the shelf.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, but I, I didn't, I, I, that's a boundary. I don't know why you're saying that. I, I never did. I, so I, I never got us in, I put us in financial trouble. Trouble.

[Sylvia]

No, he didn't put us in financial trouble, but he was always like, no, this thing.

[Jordan James]

Because you prioritized boring over cool, right? That's what your problem. And it was, it wasn't the fact that we didn't. And admit this, it wasn't the fact that we didn't have the money for food or we didn't have the money. I always paid the rent. I, I always, I always paid the mortgage. I always paid for food. We always went with. It's just when we had extra money. In your mind, you were like, well, that could go to food, that could go to doing, you know, clothes that could go to doing for the family. And I was like, but I want this cuddly toy. And I wouldn't buy the cuddly toy at, you know, at the cost of not being able to buy the other things. But because of your background, because of your upbringing, where you guys, you know.

[Sylvia]

You put the surround sound when we had no money.

[Jordan James]

Somebody gave me that money.

[Sylvia]

Yeah, to us, to buy things for the flats and stuff. And you're like, oh, it was for the flat. £600 spent on. It was something we didn't need.

[Jordan James]

It was crazy. I mean, it's the equivalent of spending like five grand on it now. It was utterly stupid, but it was a friend of the family, he'd given us some money to help us out and I did spend it on a surround sound system.

[Sylvia]

We didn't have saucepans or plates or nothing. That's not so poor.

[Scott]

We were eating out bowls, but the movie sounded amazing.

[Jordan James]

Parties, man. Look, I'm, I'm. I was a literal child. I mean, not only was I a child in my head, but I was as a child.

[Scott]

Yeah, you were also.

[Sylvia]

But I was a smart child. You.

[Jordan James]

I was. I mean, look, I, I didn't have great emotional support when I was a kid, but I did get lots of stuff bought for me. My dad bought me all the toys I wanted. I was spoiled with physical things.

[Sylvia]

I was a crafty child. I was smart.

[Jordan James]

Yeah.

[Sylvia]

Crafty, straightforward. I could fix everything. He just break everything. That's the only reason he married me. It's like, oh, that woman can do everything.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, she was a hot. Not Bob the Builder. That's, that's what I was looking at. That's all I wanted.

[Scott]

There's a niche there. I get it.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. I needed someone to fix all the stuff.

[Sylvia]

I was like, oh, the toilet broke. I was like, and come and fix it.

[Scott]

I've got to hear this, right? Because I, I, I'm surprised. I've never really asked you this question, Sylvia. What are your special interests?

[Jordan James]

Me?

[Sylvia]

Yeah. You kind of are my special interests in a different way. But if you talk an actual physical thing, not a human, then DIY is my special interest. I can go to Screw Fix, and I, I could be there, like, forever. I love the pages in the catalog and looking through them and all the machinery and screw things, you know, and.

[Scott]

So I'm getting you a Screwfix catalog for your anniversary.

[Sylvia]

Well, no, I need the stuff from it. I need, like, a shed with all the crap you possibly can get yet. And I can build my. I don't know.

[Scott]

I just, I love how you guys are, like, you were really flipping the gender roles here in that, like, Jordan's the one whose bed's covered in, like, his cuddly toys, and you're the one who's putting shelves up with a hard.

[Jordan James]

I built shelves, but I love that.

[Scott]

I think that's awesome.

[Sylvia]

Shelf builds that fall down instantly. He just puts them up and they go down the crooked as well.

[Boost Mobile Announcer]

So.

[Sylvia]

You know, he's terrible.

[Scott]

The Ugly Truth with Sylvia New podcast.

[Sylvia]

See him with a hammer. I get worried. I'm thinking, oh, my God. Well, he's going to break now. There'll be holes in the wall and everything.

[Jordan James]

I screwed in all the screws for, for, for the, for the, for. For my pictures.

[Sylvia]

Wow.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. Wow.

[Sylvia]

You know, our, the houses in England are built from plasterboard, so literally, you have to take a screwdriver and just screw it in.

[Scott]

Wow.

[Sylvia]

Literally, that's how hard it is.

[Jordan James]

Just diminish my amazing achievements of screwing in screws.

[Scott]

That's 25 years of marriage right there.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, screw you. That's what I say.

[Sylvia]

I always say I was like Bobina the builder, because I'm a girl. So Babina. And Joe is just Joe. Just the average Joe.

[Scott]

Wow. Average.

[Jordan James]

Amazing. Yeah, I'm got a book and a podcast.

[Sylvia]

Just a Jo. In a building world.

[Jordan James]

Oh, with a building world.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Sylvia]

In a building world, you just.

[Jordan James]

No, no, no.

[Scott]

Put it on the shelf and it fell down. That's.

[Jordan James]

Well, the shelf that I built fell down and she rebuilt it. Now I'm below average Joe when it comes to doing diy. But then that's you with technology. You're. You're literally inept with technology.

[Sylvia]

If I need to do it, I'll just let them read the manual. I am a very capable person. Where you are.

[Jordan James]

Awesome.

[Sylvia]

Yes.

[Scott]

Well, guys, I've. I've absolutely loved this chat today. It's brought me a lot of laughs. But let's. Let's finish with. I know for a fact that there are so many neurodivergent couples that listen to this show. I have messages from people all the time that listen with their spouse or have shared episodes with them. And from each of you, what is one piece of advice that you want them to take from this episode or that you'd like to bestow upon them after 25 years of marriage?

[Sylvia]

Have fun with each other.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. Like, it's cool to have your own special interests and your own hyper fixations, but if you can either tap into the other person's hyperfocus hyper fixations and have them tap into some of yours so they overlap, find your own thing, but also find some things that you can both love. Like, for us, it's.

[Sylvia]

We love traveling and visiting places and eat things and spend time with the nature. Exactly. Nature is our main thing. We just love the peacefulness and beauty and just. Just go to places and enjoy and just. Just the two of us, just. That's the only thing we want.

[Jordan James]

Even when we just stay at home.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, yeah.

[Jordan James]

And we're just chilling.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

And we're. And we. We will watch TV shows that we play.

[Sylvia]

Well, he plays, and I tell him what to do.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. Because I can play the video games. So I'll play and then she'll watch, which is a very normal thing nowadays. It's what most people do. Go on YouTube, watch other people play Video games.

[Sylvia]

Sylvia just playing.

[Jordan James]

But, but. But actually in real life. And because she's.

[Sylvia]

I'm terrible with buttons. I can't. My brain can't.

[Scott]

Wait until you find us. Watch alongs for diy.

[Jordan James]

No, no, she. She knows.

[Scott]

Live stream. I will build my shed over 30 days. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Jordan James]

Watch all of those every time I go on YouTube. That's all there is in the history.

[Sylvia]

All the renovation you have on the planet.

[Jordan James]

Five years of house building in 30 minutes.

[Sylvia]

Probably build my own house from scratch now. And if I don't know something and I want to build in my house, I go on YouTube, watch it and then go and do it.

[Jordan James]

But, but, but knowing, like houses. Sylvia. So talk about her special interest. Her. One of her special interests is not just diy, but houses in general. She loves houses. So we. And, And, And I love, like the idea of houses and stuff. So we would watch like coast versus country TV shows. Location, location, location, location.

[Boost Mobile Announcer]

Yeah.

[Scott]

The one that Dick Nick Strawbridge does with his wife. The, like, Chateau. The castle one. Have you watched that one?

[Elise Hu]

We.

[Sylvia]

I watched that for like a season, but it's too long. They don't.

[Scott]

My mom loves.

[Sylvia]

Is not, you know, for me. I have to see it from the beginning to the end. I get frustrated if it takes years to do one room. I'm like, oh, no, I'd love to.

[Scott]

Watch Grand Designs with you two. It'd be great. They're pregnant again.

[Sylvia]

Grand design was good. I loved it. I just watch all of those. It's really.

[Jordan James]

But then I went out of my way to be like, okay, I'll get into watching house things. And then I really did enjoy it. And then like, Sylvia's really into cooking and stuff like that. So we would end up watching Come Dine With Me and we, like, we.

[Sylvia]

Were doing some dining with me at home. Kids versus us or one kid with one parent. We had someone and we loved and we judge each other and we both.

[Jordan James]

Independently, in different situations, nearly got on to Come Dine With Me. We were Interviewed by Channel 4 in our house on separate occasions to beyond. Come Down With Me. And both. Both didn't cut the mustard.

[Scott]

Apparently.

[Jordan James]

We're not. We weren't good enough. We. We weren't controversial enough. I was told it was a location thing, but I don't believe. But anyway, I. I would say, yeah, that finding things in common, but also being okay to being by yourself. Being by yourself. But that's the wonderful thing about nowadays is we can be by ourselves while being in the same room. So I was playing Claire Obscura the other day, a video game. And Sylvia's on her phone, I assume, watching reels.

[Sylvia]

I was watching how to Build a Back Garden.

[Jordan James]

There you go. Wonderful. So Sylvia's in her special interest. I'm in my special interest playing my video game. But we're still in the same space. And that's fine. That. That shouldn't be the norm, but it. It is. It's not abnormal.

[Sylvia]

We only have this for a few hours or so there and then. It doesn't mean it's like go and take the dogs out and do things, but we do most of our things together all the time.

[Jordan James]

All the time. Just together all the time.

[Sylvia]

We loved, like a lockdown and covet because we spent so much time together. We really enjoyed it.

[Boost Mobile Announcer]

Yes.

[Jordan James]

We were the couple that became stronger.

[Scott]

During COVID So many broke up. But I think, you know what? If that. If that was the one bit of advice I could have given, that's exactly what it would be in that, obviously be with somebody who you're brilliant friends with and you. And you love and you trust, but who you can laugh with and have fun with and look forward to spending time with. I have it with Caris. We. She is not interested in sport at all. She was not interested in wrestling before she met me at all. She tries and she tries to engage with it, and she doesn't tell me to turn it off if there's something else that she wants to watch while I'm watching it. Whereas I will invest in the reality TV shows that she wants to watch or the books that she reads because she loves murder mystery books and crime books. And she'll, like, explain the whole case to me. And I'm like, I actually actively really take an interest in it. And there have been times where I've come home and it's the Wicked's on the TV again, and I go, oh, we've never seen this one before. Let's. Let's watch this again. And it's a lot. It's a lot of fun.

[Jordan James]

What would you say, babe, is our favorite special interest, like, in the last couple of years that I convinced you to get into? And now it's like, it's one of our favorite things.

[Sylvia]

I watch basketball.

[Jordan James]

See, this is what I mean. We. We know. Oh, dude.

[Sylvia]

A lot of basketball. And I love it.

[Jordan James]

I think that's all Sylvia and I. Sylvia and I and a lot of people listening might know about this. We have hive mind. I have hive mind with a lot of my friends. But Sylvie and I are the freakiest hive mind, dude.

[Scott]

Caris and I freak each other out sometimes because, like, I will literally be watching a TV show and I will make a comment like, we. What? We're watching the Traitors at the moment, which is on BBC. And she will be thinking something, and I'll say out loud, and she'll literally.

[Jordan James]

Go, get out of my mind.

[Scott]

She's like, how did you know that? That's what I was. I was just about to say that.

[Jordan James]

Coming from us, would you not agree that is a very, very good sign that Scotty and Karis are made for each other?

[Sylvia]

Literally. We sometimes say that the same word at the same time. We just watch something and say, oh, my God, this. And we're like, what?

[Jordan James]

Yeah, like, looking at the beginning of you. You guys journey, and then looking at, like, us, hopefully only halfway.

[Sylvia]

Or even the. The kids, when we texting them, I. They ask us something and I text them separately. And it's exactly the same what you text them and. And the kids, like, you two are just weird.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Sylvia]

I just asked the other one, and he said exactly the same thing. I'm like, oh.

[Jordan James]

And the thing is, it isn't like that because it's 25 years. It's always been like that. We have always just been weirdly connected. I mean, we. It's the weirdest thing that we were even together. I think Matrix.

[Sylvia]

We've been plugged into machine.

[Jordan James]

Do you think?

[Sylvia]

Which bill did you take?

[Jordan James]

I do know if it is the Matrix. I definitely paid the extra money to get the freaking bonus because Sylvia got the DLCs. Oh, mate. I. I got. I got the premium edition of the Matrix. If I ended up with Sylvia, I think that's.

[Scott]

That's lovely that you've had such a. Even though you've had bad times, you've had. You've had a lovely relationship. And I've been with Karis four years in May. It feels like five minutes. Like, I feel like she's always been in my life. And then when we reflect on all of the memories we've had together, we go, wow, we've been together that long. I feel like we're still, like, dating and we own a house together. It's crazy.

[Jordan James]

I didn't have a life before I met Sylvia. That's where it starts. Everything before that just seems like this horrific series of night. One nightmare after another nightmare after another nightmare. And. And my. My brother sort of being the only thing that stood out, and a few of my friends being the only thing that stood out as, like, anything positive. But then when Sylvia comes along, it's just like it is. It's darkness going into the light. It's coming out of this. This terrible. It's. I'll tell you what it is. It's like Stranger Things. The Upside Down. I lived in the Upside down, And l miss 11 here. She dragged me from the Upside down into the real world. That's what she did. But just to finish my. My. Another really important piece of advice is compromise.

[Sylvia]

Yep. I think that's the most important, actually. Compromise. You can't. You can't go without compromise. If you don't compromise, you're not going forward. You just stuck, and you just. You will not last.

[Jordan James]

If you want to be stubborn in your relationship, and if this is so important, please listen to this. All you couples, if you think being a couple is about one upping each other, if you think being a couple is getting points by proving each other wrong, if that's how you treat your relationship, like it's a competition, then you are not in a good relationship. That's not a healthy relationship. What is a healthy relationship is when you work as a team to win the game. So you're not playing tennis against each other. You're playing basketball with each other. You're on the same team. Every point is a point for the team, not a point for you.

[Scott]

Yeah, that.

[Sylvia]

I agree that, yeah, compromise is the main things and the being team player is. That's how you moving on forward and you loving it.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. No, you know your strengths. You know your weaknesses. Like, you know, I'm brilliant organizing things, so you just let me organize things.

[Sylvia]

I wouldn't go anywhere without him. If. If he didn't go with me, I'll be stuck because I'm terrible. I'm not a good organizer. Organizing is not my strength. And I always struggle so much with everything and get such a high anxiety to be put in a position of actually, you know, organizing something. But I am great at making my home, being my home.

[Jordan James]

But you're also great at motivating me to be better. Because if.

[Sylvia]

If it wasn't doing it, you're doing it to yourself. Yeah, but he's. He's like, modest. I'm not doing anything. I'm just there. He. All the things he says, he's like, oh, I cheated. I didn't do it. He did it. He is so good.

[Scott]

I. I would agree and disagree with that, Sylvia, because I know that I can do it. But when Caris tells me that I can do it. It's. It's a game changer. Like if, if I, I struggle to believe in myself, but if the person that I love and trust the most in the world says, you can do this, I believe in you. That I'm, I'm unstoppable. Honestly, it's, it's a really empowering thing, I think. Not to sort of make it gender specific about men, but I think when you've got somebody that you're sharing life with as a partner, that you've got your, you know, you're both holding guns back to back, you know, cool guys don't look at explosions. You're like a proper little buddy cop team. When you face adversity and life is getting you down or you feel like you need to motivate yourself or PDA is kicking your ass ass. If the person that loves you the most holds you and tells you it's okay, you can do it. It's so empowering. It's, it's such an empowering and important thing. I think for any neurodivergent person to not only be with the right person, but somebody that empowers them.

[Sylvia]

No, I, I agree. But also give yourself a credit. You want to do it?

[Jordan James]

No, I, I will give myself the credit. I'm amazing.

[Sylvia]

Because you always like, oh, I give myself. Give yourself a credit. Give yourself a point. I'm giving you a mushrooms. You get one. Extra life.

[Jordan James]

Extra life. What color is the mushroom then? If it's extra life.

[Sylvia]

Oh, no.

[Scott]

Oh, it's on the rocks.

[Jordan James]

Gold. No, she got it wrong. Green.

[Sylvia]

Oh, damn you. My brain is just.

[Scott]

I'm glad, I'm glad you didn't ask me that because I blanked as well. I was like, we're going to go.

[Jordan James]

And play some Mario. I need to teach you some lessons.

[Scott]

Well, guys, thank you so much for sort of sharing some stories today and sharing your experiences. I've had a bit of a naff week this week and felt really low energy. And I've, I've got a real buzz out of just being with you guys today. So thank you for that and for anybody that's listening as well. I really hope you've. You've taken something from just hearing a really happy, in love, neurodivergent couple just sort of give their energy to us just for a little bit. It's. I've been. Yeah, it's been wonderful. Thank you.

[Sylvia]

Ah, thank you so much. Silver anniversary. Let's hope we go to the. What is the highest you can go? Is it Ruby. Is it called 100? No. What? What is it? 20, 25 years is silver anniversary. But then, I don't know. I think gold one. When you're 50. Yeah.

[Scott]

Gold diet.

[Jordan James]

I have no idea. All I know is that every single single minute of every single day.

[Sylvia]

Can I get something silver then?

[Jordan James]

Is the best day ever.

[Sylvia]

Best day.

[Jordan James]

Because, babe, you are not just my wife. You are not just my best friend.

[Sylvia]

I'm your little pig.

[Jordan James]

You. You are my hero.

[Sylvia]

Okay, Sorry. He said babe. So.

[Scott]

Anyway, get a room, guys.

[Sylvia]

Right?

[Scott]

We'll be back with a Hot Topic tomorrow. Thank you very much for listening, everybody. We'll see you then. It won't be as much fun, unfortunately.

[Jordan James]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Bye, everybody.

[Jordan James]

Nightly. Bye.

[Sylvia]

Bye.

[Scott]

Thanks for tuning in to the neurodivergent Experience. We hope today's episode sparked something for you. Whether it's a new idea, a bit of validation, or just a moment of connection. Remember, new episodes are every week, so be sure to join us for for the next one for more conversations and insights into the neurodivergent Experience. If you've enjoyed this podcast, help us grow. You can do that by rating and reviewing this show. Your support makes a huge difference in helping us reach more people who could benefit from these conversations. You can connect with us on social media, find us on Instagram, Facebook, tick tock. Just search for the neurodivergent Experience. Thank you again for listening and until next time, take care of yourself. You're not alone in this journey.

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