A Very Neurodivergent Christmas: Gift Anxiety, Family Gatherings, Expectations & Burnout

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Neurodivergent Experience

Episode: A Very Neurodivergent Christmas: Gift Anxiety, Family Gatherings, Expectations & Burnout
Hosts: Jordan James & Simon Scott
Guest: Ashley Bentley
Date: December 11, 2025

---

Overview

This festive episode dives into the unique challenges and pressures neurodivergent individuals face during the Christmas season. Hosts Jordan James and Simon Scott, joined by therapist Ashley Bentley, mix humor and honest storytelling with practical advice. The conversation explores how gift expectations, family dynamics, burnout, sensory overload, and the pressure to conform turn Christmas into a complex—and sometimes overwhelming—experience for those with autism, ADHD, and other neurodivergent identities. The team shares personal anecdotes, coping strategies, and empowering reminders: manage your expectations, honor your limits, and remember—no is a complete sentence.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Double-Edged Sword of Christmas (02:14–05:33)

• Expectation Overload:
  Ashley: “There’s so many expectations wrapped up in Christmas. Pardon the pun... so many expectations of perfection.” (04:29)
• Love/Hate Relationship with Christmas:
  Simon: “The day of Christmas... is wonderful, but the 24 days before, I could not care less.” (05:04) Jordan: Describes embracing the chaos lately, letting go of needing Christmas to be perfect as a parent.

2. Gift Anxiety & Social Pressure (05:33–16:27)

• Opening Gifts—The Autistic Way:
  Simon: “We have a very autistic routine of one person opens a present, we’ll go, ‘Oh.’ Then another person does...” (05:08)
  • Both Jordan and Simon highlight the pressure and awkwardness of faking reactions due to alexithymia (difficulty identifying/expressing emotions).
• Gift-Giving Dilemmas & Anxiety:
  Simon: “If I turn up and everyone’s got a gift for me and I haven’t got a gift, how am I going to be perceived? If I turn up with a gift and nobody else has got a gift, how am I gonna make them feel?” (13:03) Ashley: “That’s not what’s happening... at the gym everybody’s looking at themselves. Nobody cares about what you look like.” (13:52)
  • Advice: Most people are wrapped up in their own anxieties; genuine time and thoughtfulness mean more than the material gift.

3. Sensory Overload, Burnout & Social Etiquette (06:57–16:39)

• Shopping Stress:
  Simon: “It was like freaking Jumanji at work the other day... Why does Christmas bring this out in people?” (06:58)
  • Both agree that in-person shopping is exhausting, often triggering sensory overload and irritability. Jordan: “It’s not that they make me angry. They just make me really tired... I could fall asleep on the floor at any moment.” (07:43)
• Burnout by Christmas Day:
  Simon: “I genuinely get to Christmas Day and I am so burnt out by the 24 days that come previously I don’t enjoy it.” (09:15)

4. Shifting Mindsets & Reframing Expectations (19:48–25:23)

• Letting Go of Rigid Traditions:
  Jordan: “I started putting my decorations out in November because... it really helps my mental health.” (19:48)
• Rewriting Your Christmas Story:
  Ashley: “We have this ability... to really work on reframing and working on your mindset, you can get to a place where you actually enjoy [Christmas].” (23:20)
  • Exercise: Write out “Christmas makes me feel…” and be honest. Identify current narratives then choose to look for positive memories to help shift your story.
• Triggering Old Stories:
  Simon: “Christmas makes me feel unprepared, Ashley.” (25:02)
  • Discusses how past negative experiences can create an anticipatory dread, akin to “mini PTSD.”

Memorable Ritual

• Simon: “My mum gets me a Christmas vinyl and lets me open it on the 1st of December every year... Last night... I sat with my dog at my feet and listened to Elvis Christmas with a cup of tea and I loved it.” (27:23)

5. Coping Strategies for Sensory Overload & Burnout (28:14–33:22)

• Self-care Basics:
  Ashley: “With our beautiful neurodivergent brains and bodies, we need to make sure that we are trying to prevent overload, prevent meltdowns before they happen.” (29:29)
  • Weighted blankets, eye coverings, earplugs, and regular downtime help counter sensory extremes.
• Removing Yourself is Okay:
  Jordan: “If you really can’t do something, don’t make yourself feel bad... We are disabled... Sometimes those disabilities disable us...” (31:56) Ashley: “Treat yourself as if you were someone that you were taking care of.” (32:54)

6. Saying No & Preserving Your Peace (36:02–41:03)

• The Power of ‘No’:
  Ashley: “No is a complete sentence... That is a very general term... For the Christmas edition though, maybe offer: ‘I can’t, I’ve got a lot going on, but please invite me next time.’ If they’re true friends, they’ll understand.” (37:44–39:45)
• True Friendship Means Accommodation:
  Jordan: Offers a practical example of changing plans to suit a friend’s needs. “I chose something... that makes him comfortable and that we can do together... That’s how you know what a true friend is.” (40:25–41:03)

7. Navigating Family Gatherings & Difficult People (41:37–55:52)

• Declining Toxic Family Invitations:
  Jordan: “If I don’t get on with someone, then I’m not going to get out my way to hang out with them... Don’t be afraid to say what you think.” (42:01)
  • If you must attend, Ashley suggests the “double bind” technique: “Give people two options and both of those are things you want to do.” (43:31)
• Family Dynamics & Old Roles:
  Ashley: “When families get together, old identities and old roles get reignited... Try and look at your family as just a bunch of kids.” (50:10)
  • Quoting Ram Dass: “You think you’re enlightened? Go spend two weeks with your family.” (50:54)
• Masking, Authenticity & Meeting People Where They Are:
  Ashley: “Meeting people where they are... is a way where you can feel you can be your authentic self, but you don’t have to agree with everything... Just understand what they’re saying.” (54:26–55:52)
• Celebrating Differences:
  Jordan: “If you want to hang out with me and you know the energy I’m going to bring... then I’m not going to feel bad for being myself around you.” (45:50)

---

Memorable Quotes

• “So much of it is expectations. This is a word that’s really been cropping up... because there’s so many expectations wrapped up in Christmas.”
  —Ashley Bentley (04:29)

• “The greatest gift you can give anyone is your time, especially this time of year.”
  —Ashley Bentley (14:25)

• “No is a complete sentence.”
  —Ashley Bentley (37:44)

• “If you really can’t do something, don’t make yourself feel bad... Sometimes those disabilities disable us.”
  —Jordan James (31:56)

• “You think you’re enlightened? Go spend two weeks with your family.”
  —Ashley Bentley quoting Ram Dass (50:54)

---

Key Timestamps

• 02:14: The highs and lows of Christmas for neurodivergent folks
• 05:08: Autistic routines for opening gifts and the pressure of reactions
• 06:58: The chaos and overwhelm of holiday shopping
• 13:03: Social anxiety around holiday gift exchanges
• 19:48–25:23: Mindset shifts—reframing your holiday experience; practical exercises
• 28:14: Reducing sensory overload & practicing self-kindness
• 36:02: The importance of saying no, RSD (Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria), and social FOMO
• 41:37: Handling difficult family members; the “double bind” technique
• 50:10: How childhood roles resurface in family settings
• 54:26: Meeting people where they are & protecting your peace

---

Final Thoughts & Takeaways

The episode blends humor with real vulnerability, providing validation and practical tactics:

• Lower your expectations and set boundaries.
• Allow yourself to say no—and know it’s enough.
• Prepare for sensory overload and schedule downtime.
• Focus on the moments, not the perfection.
• Reframe your story about Christmas to include positive memories and new, self-designed rituals.
• Honor who you are and advocate for what you need, both with friends and family.

Jordan and Simon close by encouraging listeners to revisit last year’s Christmas episode for kid-specific advice, and to share their own experiences/tips in the comments. If the episode eased Simon’s Christmas anxiety even a little, they hope it can do the same for others.

---

For More:

• Instagram: @theneurodivergentexperiencepod
• Facebook: The Neurodivergent Experience
• YouTube: @TheNeurodivergentExperience

---

Merry Christmas & take care of yourself—because Neurodivergent Voices Deserve to Be Heard.

Transcript

[Simon Scott]

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Do you like being educated on things that entertain but don't matter? Well, then you need to be listening to the Podcast with Knox and Jamie. Every Wednesday, we put together an episode dedicated to delightful idiocy to give your brain a break from all the serious and important stuff.

[Ashley Bentley]

Whether we're deep diving a classic movie, dissecting the true meanings behind the newest slang, or dunking on our own listeners for their bad takes or cringy stories, we always approach our topics with humor and just a little bit of side eye. And we end every episode with recommendations on all the best new movies, books.

[Simon Scott]

TV shows or music. To find out more, just search up the Podcast with Knox and Jamie wherever you listen to podcasts and prepare to make Wednesday your new favorite day of the week. Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Foreign.

[Jordan James]

Welcome to the neurodivergent Experience Podcast, a podcast where we share the lived experiences of neurodivergent people to help create a better understanding for our community.

[Simon Scott]

Join us every week as we bring you honest, raw and inspiring conversations with specialists, advocates, and individuals who know exactly what it's like to live the neurodivergent experience.

[Jordan James]

I'm Jordan James, a neurodivergent specialist, father of neurodivergent children, husband to a neurodivergent wife, and author of the Autistic Experience. And I'm joined by my best friend.

[Simon Scott]

I'm Simon Scott. I'm an autistic ADHD broadcaster, actor and advocate. Join us as we journey into unraveling the neurodivergent experience.

[Jordan James]

Merry Christmas.

[Simon Scott]

It's Christmas time. Just doing rain.

[Jordan James]

Okay.

[Simon Scott]

Ghosts of Christmas 3 will visit it.

[Jordan James]

There's two Marleys. We've been over this.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, yes, of course. There's only one Christmas Carol. And it's the muppets.

[Jordan James]

The muppets one. Yeah.

[Ashley Bentley]

No cheeses for us, Mrs.

[Jordan James]

Exactly. No cheeses for us, Maces. So, yeah. Welcome back to the Neurodivergent Experience, everyone. Hello. And we are talking about Easter. No, Christmas. Sorry, everyone.

[Simon Scott]

I'm surprised the Easter eggs aren't already in the shops yet. But that's a fair.

[Jordan James]

Yes, that will be the day after Christmas.

[Simon Scott]

January 1st. Yeah, why not?

[Jordan James]

So I'm. I'm dressed in my Grinch pajamas and my Grinch slippers. So I'm. I'm looking the part. You two. We are joined by Ashley. You two are never looking the part, you're boring.

[Simon Scott]

But the thing is, is there's an irony in that you're wearing Grinch stuff. But I am the Grinch.

[Jordan James]

Well, no, I'm. I'm the Grinch after his heart.

[Ashley Bentley]

Ah, okay.

[Jordan James]

That's, that's how. Because, because I used to be proper Grinch. I used to really, really dislike Christmas. Not the actual idea of it, but just all the stress around it. But it's like in the last couple of years, especially as my kids have got older and there's less like stress of like, I have to get it right. I have to be the. A really perfect dad, you know, I can't mess up my kids childhood. But you know, since I already did that, now I'm just on borrowed time, you know, everything, everything is just extra now. So I'm just like, ah, Sodom. So yeah, that's. We're here to prepare for Christmas in a very neurodivergent way. Which is why we've got Ashley. Because we don't do anything without Ashley telling us to. That is how we live our lives.

[Ashley Bentley]

Oh, well, thank you.

[Jordan James]

Well, yeah, I mean, like my mental health depends on you. Just without any pressure, by the way.

[Ashley Bentley]

No, no, no, of course not. Well, it's a pleasure to be here and this is a, this is a great topic to cover and actually I'm going to be covering this in my, in my Mindful Mondays as well. So. Yeah, yeah. Which is out every Monday on the neurodivergent Experience podcast.

[Jordan James]

Indeed it is. It's very, very good.

[Ashley Bentley]

So. Yeah, so it is a very, it's a challenging time of year and a festive time of year. It's, it's sort of, it's sort of both halves happening at the same time, isn't it?

[Jordan James]

It is, it's like the greatest and the worst time of year.

[Ashley Bentley]

So much I think of it is expectations. This is a word that's really been cropping up a lot for me recently and it's so relevant for right now because. So there's so many expectations wrapped up in Christmas. Pardon the pun. So yeah, I think this is gonna be a good episode for people to feel understood and heard and how we can help people feel a little bit better about this time of year.

[Simon Scott]

Well, enough of that. Let's talk about why I don't like Christmas.

[Jordan James]

Yes, let's hear what Scrooge has to say.

[Simon Scott]

Well, you want a day off on Christmas Day? Dear Bob Crutchet, you can fuck off. No, Right, guys, I, I love the day. Okay. I like waking up Opening presents with my family, we have a very autistic routine of one person opens a present, we'll go, oh. Then another person does, oh. Like, we. I've never understood this, giving you presents. And everyone just rips them open. Jordan's looking at me like, what? No, no, no. That's what we do.

[Jordan James]

That's what we do. Yeah. Like, the kids hand out the presents and we all get one each. Each time. And, yeah, it makes every little present important and wonderful. Yeah. But it also puts a lot of pressure on the Alexithymia faking it.

[Simon Scott]

Here we go. But we'll talk about that shortly. But, yeah, the day of Christmas, having Christmas dinner and everything like that. As long as I'm not having to make it absolutely wonderful, I will happily sit there. Mmm, good nom nom. But I will happily sit, have a meal. We used to have this little tradition where my mum would buy a secret present for everybody, and we call it the after dinner box. And they'd come out and we'd all be like. So there is, like, these elements of Christmas that I love. The 24 days before it, I could not care less. I don't know whether it's because I used to hate getting dressed up at school when they would make you do, like, the Nativity. I don't know if it's the stress of buying people gifts and hoping that they like it when you open it. And they don't just go, oh, didn't ask for that. But great, I suppose. And I also. Oh, God, guys. I went to the shops the other day, and you know how, Ashley, you were saying, be a witness? Well, people were also nearly a witness to a crime because I just couldn't. I couldn't do it. I was watching people just throwing the cars in, like, just parking on the curb and things like that. I saw a guy park in a bus lane outside of a shop the other day.

[Jordan James]

Nice.

[Simon Scott]

Like, my partner, Caris, she works as a. A beauty specialist at Boots. And she literally said to me, it was like freaking Jumanji at work the other day. She was like, where are these people in everyday life? Why does Christmas bring this out in people? And my justice sensitivity at the moment is through the goddamn roof. Because I'm just like, why? Why is everyone getting so worked up over this one day? Like, everybody is absolutely obsessed with it. And I'm like, cool, that's great. But it's just a stress that, to be honest, I could. I could do without.

[Jordan James]

That's why I do all my shopping online. Pretty Much. It's very rare that I will go into town and be like, oh, I'm just going to buy some things in town.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

And if. If I do, it's kind of like on a. Like. Like a Tuesday afternoon. And let's be fair, it's still busy. But I'm not a go to town at weekend person. Like, that's. That's a crazy thought. And I live in a pretty quiet, ish, you know, town, a countryside town. It's. It's pretty chill. But even I would most probably avoid the town. You know, I've tried on. On days like that. I also don't, you know, when they're like, they. They like, put up the lights or they put up the tree in, like, towns or they have Christmas markets and things like that, I tend to avoid those as well. Even if I want to do them, because I know that they. It's not that they make me angry. Thanks to Ashley, they don't make me angry. They just make me really tired. Like, I get. I've got all the energy in the world, and on a normal day, I'll get to town and suddenly I'm yawning. My eyes are, like, stinging, like, genuinely actually could fall asleep on the floor at any moment. Like, just walking around TK Maxx, just like, oh, there's a lovely coat. Just gonna snuggle here. It's crazy. And then on Christmas time, I'm just not even prepared to deal with that.

[Simon Scott]

And this is one of the things that I'm interested to hear, your sort of angle of this, Ashley, is because everyone goes, oh, Christmas. Well, I say everyone, quote, who's everyone? Quote, unquote, Everyone.

[Jordan James]

Every man, every man, every man, every woman. Christmas time.

[Simon Scott]

But I genuinely get to Christmas Day, and I am so burnt out by the 24 days that come previously. I don't enjoy it.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah, well, you know, it's interesting because I think. I mean, like, when I was a kid, it was very rare that you ever heard somebody be, you know, oh, I don't like Christmas. And they'd be labeled as a scrooge, as a bah, humbug. But what's happened?

[Jordan James]

Well, I don't know who would do that. That's a terrible person.

[Ashley Bentley]

What's happened over these last number of however many years is the expectation. Of what? Of perfection. And looking like you've got everything covered and you're doing everything. And that has changed. And buying coworkers, you know, people who work in an office now you've got to buy your co. Workers gifts as well. And you've got to buy. And, you know, it's interesting you mentioned the parking situation and almost losing it and that. It's so interesting, I think, because our. We are more online these days with our shopping. When people do converge into in person shopping, it's like we've forgotten all of the rules, how to be polite and how to deal with just normal shopping because we're not doing it very often anymore.

[Jordan James]

You are. So you're hitting the nail on the head because you are. You're absolutely right. We literally forgot how to behave.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

And I. I think the online shopping has got a lot to do that. But I also think Covid has a lot to do with that.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yes.

[Simon Scott]

But Caris had this. Literally the other day, there was a lady who came into her work and was like, do you have this edition of this perfume? She went, I'm really sorry, we've sold out. She went, but it's this color one. I'm sorry, we've sold out. But yeah, but I want this one. My daughter wants this color. And my partner literally just turned to him, was like, why would I lie to you? Why would I go, oh, no, there is one. It's in the back and it's mine.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah.

[Simon Scott]

And the woman literally just went, oh, I'm really sorry. My kid's stressing me out. And she's like, that's fine, that's fine. But if it's not the end of the. If it's sold out, it's sold out. And it's like, I've done that with my shopping. I've done everything online. I've bought for most people or even I haven't bought a gift for Jordan. And even thinking about it and getting. Look at his face. That's what I'm worried about. I'm like, oh, no, there's prep. Oh, no pressure. Booger bar. Humbugger. Exactly. Look at his face. And we do have a podcast, but look at his face.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, I want all the squishmallows.

[Simon Scott]

Like a bulldog chewing a wasp. He looks really happy about Christmas.

[Jordan James]

I want every squishmallow known to man.

[Ashley Bentley]

I think if we can start walking around and looking at our fellow adults as basically just, you know, big kids walking around.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. Did you just use the A word? How dare you? How dare you?

[Ashley Bentley]

I know, I know. So often this time of year, people, due to all of the pressure and everything that we're gonna be talking about in this episode, everybody's feeling it. So the collective pressure is just. Is Rising. And so this is where we've gotta dig deep and try and be patient with others, even if they're not being patient with us. You know, it's a real exercise. You can look at it as that. Okay, I'm going to. I'm going to treat my shopping excursion as the most mindful thing I do all week and see, see if that changes anything. You can play around with different contextual lenses through which you are experiencing this, this once a year sort of extravaganza.

[Simon Scott]

Because that's one of the things that I've sort of struggled with with the, the shopping and the gift thing is if I'm honest, like truly honest, I would like to say to people, I'm only gonna buy all these people. And if you're not in that group, I'm sorry, but please don't take it personally. Like, that's what I would love to say to somebody. You know, it's like, I'm meeting up with a couple of friends for a drink in a week. Do I go empty handed? Do I. Like, these are the sorts of things that really cause me anxieties. I'm like, if I turn up and everyone's got a gift for me and I haven't got a gift, how am I going to be perceived? If I turn up with a gift and nobody else has got a gift, how am I gonna make them feel? And I get in this limbo, Ashley, where I'm like, do I? Don't I? Do I? What do I do?

[Ashley Bentley]

Yes. Yeah. And I think, and this, this, again, this goes back to our expectations of what's a good one to remember. I liken this a little bit to people who are scared, people who are out of shape and scared to go to the gym. They're like, everybody's gonna be looking at me. Everybody's gonna. And it's like, that's not what's happening at the gym. At the gym, everybody's looking at themselves. Nobody cares about. Yeah, yeah. Nobody cares about what you look like. All they care about.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah.

[Ashley Bentley]

So again, this, this, this meetup that you're having with your friends, I guarantee you they're having the same sort of like they're worrying, oh my God, should I or shouldn't I or what, what's expected. And I think if we just try and show up and bring our authentic selves as much as possible, that's the greatest gift you can give anyone is your time, especially this time of year, and remembering that and tell people what you really love about them, you know, Take a moment to be a little bit cheesy and maybe share something, a fond memory that you have with that person or how. How they popped into your mind a couple weeks ago when you saw something that you knew that they love. Something like that. That's a moment of like, oh, wow. You know, that really. That really hits in the heart, and that's a beautiful gift to give.

[Simon Scott]

That makes a great sense to me. Ashley. I don't celebrate Thanksgiving, even though I think, you know, historically it's problematic. But I had a message from an American friend of mine who I've become very close with recently, and he messaged me and said, I am grateful for our friendship. I am very thankful that you've come into my life, and that genuinely is one of the nicest things that anybody has given to me this year. So that I really, really agree with. What about you, Jordan? You just like, nah. What you get me, bro?

[Jordan James]

All the squishmallow.

[Simon Scott]

All the squishmallows.

[Jordan James]

Squishmallow. No, I. I don't know. I. I don't really think about, like, oh, what? I'm not.

[Simon Scott]

I'm.

[Jordan James]

I'm not gonna get somebody the right thing. So I don't really. I mean, that is what we talk about. I'm zoned out. I'll be honest. What were we talking about? We're talking about buying people gifts, right?

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah. This pressure to know, should I get somebody if. Especially if they're a friend.

[Jordan James]

Just a yes or no. Actually, my brain's not. My brain's not ready.

[Simon Scott]

Just for context, for listeners, Jordan has done a night shift. There's been an go off, and he's here. He's a bit overstimulated, and he's had a long day already before we've even started.

[Jordan James]

This is the genuine neurodivergent experience. I forgot my methylphenidate, and now my brain is basically a tomato. So we're talking about presents, giving, caring about people. I don't do any of that. Everyone, good night.

[Simon Scott]

I think that's a really good place to take a break. Should we come back after the break?

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

I hate you guys.

[Simon Scott]

And now a word from one of our sponsors.

[Jordan James]

Screw you guys.

[Ashley Bentley]

Why does every recipe I try need 18 ingredients, including a jar of something paste I'll never use again but will sit in my fridge for nine months? I just want dinner in the oven fast. That's why I love Blue Apron's new one Pan assemble and bake meals. They send you fresh ingredients that are already chopped. All you do is put it all together and bake. That's it. No chopping, no weird leftovers, just delicious, easy to make meals. Get 20% off your first two orders with code APRON20. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blueapron.com terms for more.

[Simon Scott]

This is a neurodivergent experience. Public announcement if you live in England and you or a loved one is waiting for an autism or ADHD assessment, you don't have to wait years. RTN diagnostics is now part of the NHS Right to Choose scheme, which means if your local wait for a consultant led autism or ADHD assessment is more than 18 weeks, you can choose RTN instead and it won't cost you a penny. Jordan chose RTN for his own family because their care and attention to detail were second to none. They didn't just diagnose autism and adhd, they looked at the full picture, including pda, ocd, anxiety and more. The team is friendly, neuroaffirming and comprises many neurodivergent individuals so they truly understand. Getting started is simple. Download the GP referral letter and questionnaire from the link in our show notes, take those to your GP and ask for a referral to RTN Diagnostics. If approved, RTN will be in touch within eight weeks to begin your assessment. Remember, this only applies in England and some exclusions do apply. RTN is not currently able to accept referrals for child ADHD assessments, so check the details before you start RTN diagnostics, helping you get the answers you deserve without the weight. Welcome back to the whole. God. He did this last episode and it threw me and he's done it again. He's done it. He's. He can't keep getting away with it.

[Jordan James]

Spoiled again.

[Simon Scott]

He's literally. Honestly, it's. It's so funny. I can so tell when Jordan's not taking his meds cuz he like, if I'm being messed with, then I'm not doing it alone. Yeah. So we're talking about Christmas. I'm trying desperately not to be a scrooge. Jordan said to me a little while ago, don't yuck my yum. And I'm really trying to take it.

[Jordan James]

To heart because I started putting all my decorations out in November because that's. Because I did a Facebook post last year of why does it people start Christmas in November? Why does people really on it people. Why do people start putting their decorations out in November? It was triggering my very anal side of my autistic brain, as it were. In layman's terms, I Get that. I was like, just, Christmas starts from December 1st. And everybody was like, it's because of my mental health. It really helps my mental health. We fill the house with joy and lights and decorations, and it makes us feel better. And I'm like, I have nothing to say about that. I'm not. Because I don't have the cognitive dissonance that a lot of people do have. And I was just like, do you know what? That actually totally makes sense to me. So I started doing it. And last year, since my kids have been adults, that's the best Christmas I. I had since my kids have been adults, because I honestly thought, well, Christmas is over now because my kids are too old for it. Words. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. All these words that come out of my mouth. But yes, the. The kids now, since I've been adults, I was just like, oh, Christmas is over now. They. They know the secret. They know that I am Santa. And I don't know, I kind of took the magic out of. Took the kid. The children, kiddie side out of it. So as soon as Christmas became adult, I became not interested in Christmas. But then people may be more interested in Christmas because they're like, well, actually, it's really good for your mental health. So, weirdly, even though Christmas does stress a lot of people out and it's actually bad for a lot of people's mental health, I decided to look at it in a completely different way and look at it as to improve my mental health. So I approached it with such positivity that it literally became the best Christmas I've ever had as my kids being adults. And I think that it is a mindset. And I'm not saying, like, oh, you can just switch your mind like that. I'm saying I did. And my positivity then affected everyone around me, and everyone else had all this positivity, and we just did so much fun stuff. And I think because my kids are adults, they can help organize Christmas with me. So it was like a collective family effort. So I definitely think as a parent of especially neurodivergent little children, that is a. That is a huge, huge burden of trying to navigate your way through their expectations as well as reaching your own expectations, which we. We spoke about in the episode to do with. Scotty, help me out.

[Simon Scott]

You've done that thing where you asked me a question. My brain went, oh, yeah, right.

[Jordan James]

Imposter syndrome.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, hello.

[Jordan James]

So you'll be like, oh, I should get this right. I'm not very good at it. And. And there are so many neurodivergent factors that come in to this time of year, but it all revolves around expectations and, like, the biggest things that can go wrong. Expectations. So I think that this is why you're here, Ashley, is to help people's expectations be more realistic. So what would you say is your best advice for that?

[Ashley Bentley]

Well, I think you have hit upon something so remarkable that we can. That we have. That we all have the ability to do. And it takes time, effort, and a real, real want to do it. And you completely changed how you felt about something. And we have this ability if we. Even if. You know. Again, I keep using the gym as an example, but that's. That is a great example. A lot of people feel like, I would never like the gym. And actually, if you really wanted to and you really worked on reframing and working on your mindset, you can get to a place where you actually enjoy going to the gym. Same thing with Christmas. If this is something that every year has just been getting worse and worse and you're just feeling like you're. You're, You're. Our brains will keep giving us the story that we have about any situation. It will. You know, this is confirmation bias. We'll just keep seeing I don't like Christmas. Well, damn it. Everywhere I go, I'm gonna be seeing all the reasons why I don't like it. So that story that's going on in the background, if you can work on crafting a new story about Christmas and about how you feel about it and how you can navigate it and start to come up with your own, and this is gonna look different for everybody. So it's a difficult one to give people steps on how exactly to do this. But try and take a look at what is your current story. How do you feel about it right now? That's your first step. And write out maybe just a sentence. Christmas makes me feel.

[Simon Scott]

Christmas makes me feel unprepared, Ashley.

[Ashley Bentley]

Ah, so that's.

[Simon Scott]

That's what it is. It's. I look at the calendar and I go, oh, shit, it's December 1st tomorrow. And it all.

[Jordan James]

So it's almost like you're dreading it before it's even become a reality.

[Ashley Bentley]

It's hitting an old story. This is likely a story that has cropped up in your life before. Feeling unprepared for something.

[Jordan James]

Can I ask you, Scotty, is it like a PTSD D? Almost like you've. You've had such bad experiences over the past Christmases that Now you have dread with each Christmas?

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, yeah. I've had a lot of Christmases where I've worked up until Christmas Eve and It's like the 22nd and the 23rd and I go, oh, shit. Like there's been times where I've got the train up on the 24th on Christmas Eve and I've bought presents that I think are thoughtful and then people open them and they go, oh, this isn't what I asked for. And it happens. And the sort of pressure of like so many people have a romanticized image of what Christmas is. It's like when you're in my early 20s, when I was dating, there is pressure to perform at Christmas, like for me, in my own experience. And there have, there has been many, many times, but I have rocked up my parents house or like an ex girlfriend's house on Christmas. Even then, like not being at my own families at Christmas, I feel a guilt of leaving people that I normally would be with. And there is just a lot of mixed emotions of. Again, I think it touches on imposter syndrome. I think there is a PTSI where I have come back from Christmas and felt like I've disappointed people and it's not necessarily about buying the wrong thing, but there's been times where like, my mum's been so excited to have me home at Christmas, I've come home and been so burnt out that I feel like I've, you know, sort of yucked her. Yum again, you know?

[Jordan James]

Yeah, because you can't perform for her almost. Because. Yeah, I. I get that. It's like a lot of the times you kind of want to put on a. A front even when you're not feeling it.

[Simon Scott]

But you know what, dude? There's like one little sort of ritual that has started to happen between my mum and I as a Christmas thing. And you know, I love this and I kind of forget that it happens until it happens every year I'm a big music file. I love collecting physical music. My mum gets me a Christmas vinyl and lets me open it on the 1st of December every year. And this year was Elvis's Christmas. Last year it was Tony Bennett's. The year before it was Nat King Coles. The year before that it's been Michael Buble. The year before that it was, I think it was like a Christmas Carol Concert 1. I've got, I've got loads, I've got loads of Christmas vinyls and each. And last night my living room's been done. I've got a new chair. I'VE got a new floor. And I sat with my dog at my feet and listened to all of his Christmas last night with a cup of tea. And I loved it. It felt so. That was the first time where I was like, this is a bit of me.

[Ashley Bentley]

I love that, that. Okay, okay. So I think what could be really useful for you and for a lot of listeners out there is especially if you're, if you've been dealing. This is basically negativity bias. This is your brain doing its job, thinking, right, we want to protect ourselves. I'm just going to remember all of the, you know, all of the things that could go wrong and did go wrong in the past, and then we just end up feeling like, ugh. So I think it could be really, and this is not forcing anybody to like Christmas, but I think it could be useful to begin changing your story and sit down and start going through your memories and start remembering all of the really poignant moments, the really beautiful moments that you've had over the years. I love this vinyl story. Really start remembering. And the more you start scanning, it might be difficult at first to even think of something, but just give it a chance. The more you start to scan your memories, looking for a positive memory, after a while, your brain will start going, oh, okay, this is what we're doing. Right, okay. And you might start remembering long forgotten beautiful moments and really just sit and simmer in those memories and just have a moment and start to. That's how you start to see this time through a new lens. Start changing that story, start remembering all the beautiful times. And yeah, start to reduce all of the pressure as well. And I think because we are doing, as we've already spoken about, we're doing more online shopping these days. And so when we do go into a shop, I mean, it is such an assault of music and people and noise and lights. It is sensory. It's sensory overload. So with our beautiful neurodivergent brains and bodies, we need to make sure that we are trying to prevent overload, prevent meltdowns before they happen. So really taking some time to ensure that on a daily basis you are reducing that sensory input. And that could be lying down with a weighted blanket, maybe an eye covering, some earplugs, and really make sure that you're doing this on a regular basis to sort of counter balance the extremes that we're getting in our, in our senses during this time of year.

[Simon Scott]

I think that's, that's, that's great advice because I genuinely, again, it's it's the prep thing. I don't set myself up to have the best possible outcomes when it comes to Christmas. I feel like I'm on the back foot from day one. So sort of maybe like when I went into the shops through the day, at no point did my brain go, it's Christmas, it's going to be crazy. I turned up and was like, what the fuck is going on here? So that was where it's messed with my sort of sensory. Like, I went into the shops and instantly I was like, I've worn a coat that's too warm for this shop. And the temperature control and everything, it was like everything was just going up in temperature a little bit. And I was like, I'm sorry, I've got a bail. I haven't got what I wanted, but I'm going to. I can't be here anymore. Which is normally my response.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yes, yes. If you feel that, remove yourself from the situation. Don't try and push through. I mean, you know, it. If we're talking about shopping, usually it won't be an emergency. Usually. Hopefully you can just remove yourself and just try again Another. Another day. Yeah, once. Once the horse is bolted.

[Jordan James]

I think that's a really good point, is that is be kind to yourself. Like, honestly, if you really can't do something, don't make yourself feel bad because you can't manage it. We are disabled. You know, we have disabilities and we. We've got to be kind to ourselves when it comes to those disabilities and realize that sometimes those disabilities disable us. That's how that works. And it's okay when that happens. You're not weak, you're not crappy, you're not a bad person or letting anybody down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just, just take care of yourself. Otherwise you can't take care of the other people that, that you are feeling responsible for. So, yeah, if you are in a situation where you're feeling overwhelmed, just remove yourself from that situation if it's possible. And don't, don't beat yourself up over it.

[Ashley Bentley]

Absolutely, absolutely. Treat yourself as if you were someone that you were taking care of.

[Jordan James]

Yes. Like you're the child that you're taking care of. Because if you went into a shop with an autistic child and that autistic child start getting overwhelmed, having a meltdown because of the sensory issues, you would remove them from that situation.

[Simon Scott]

And I do this in everyday life. I just haven't applied it to Christmas.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. And then you've got to do it to yourself. Yeah, exactly.

[Ashley Bentley]

Excellent. So you already know how to do this. You just need to bring that professional to this.

[Jordan James]

I don't know what of or trying. We're trying pop character collectors. That's me. Should we have one more break and then the last?

[Simon Scott]

Yes. We'll do the Ghost of Christmas Future when we get back. AI is transforming customer service. It's real and it works. And with Fin, we've built the number.

[Ashley Bentley]

One AI agent for customer service.

[Simon Scott]

We're seeing lots of cases where it's solving up to 90% of of real queries for real businesses. This includes the real world, complex stuff like issuing a refund or canceling an order. And we also see it when FIN goes up against competitors. It's top of all the performance benchmarks, top of the G2 leaderboard. And if you're not happy, we'll refund you up to a million dollars, which I think says it all. Check it out for yourself at FIN AI. Have you ever felt stuck in patterns that don't serve you, struggled with stress or wanted to connect more deeply with yourself? Then I have to introduce you to a friend of the podc, Ashley Bentley of Integrated coaching, breathwork and hypnotherapy. Ashley is a highly experienced clinical hypnotherapist and coach specializing in working with neurodivergent minds. Through a unique blend of integrative coaching, breath work and hypnotherapy, Ashley helps people rewire subconscious patterns, regulate their nervous systems, step into more empowered versions of themselves. Whether you're dealing with addiction, anxiety, burnout or struggles with self acceptance, Ashley offers practical and science backed tools tailored just for you. Her unique methods combine neuroscience, storytelling, subconscious transformation to create real, lasting change. Jordan and I can personally attest to the profound and transformative effects of her sessions, which have been life changing. She does all of these sessions online, meaning she can work with you no matter where you are in the world. If you're ready to break free from old patterns and start living with more clarity, confidence and connection, go to Bit ly Ashleynde to book a free consultation or learn more. Welcome back to the neurodivergent Experience. We've been talking Christmas. Merry Christmas, Harry Krylove.

[Jordan James]

I'm just picking. I'm picking mince pie out of my teeth. That was. That was a lovely break. I had a wee and a mince pie.

[Simon Scott]

Yes, the magic of magic of radio.

[Jordan James]

That's not the same time.

[Simon Scott]

What did you do during the break? Let us know in the comments below. Yeah, so we've been talking a variety of Things with Christmas, it's a time of year that does not bring the best out in me. But one thing that I definitely wanted to touch on, especially with having Ashley Bentley with us, who is the in house therapist and the host of Mindful Mondays here at the neurodivergent Experience, is saying no to preserve your peace. Because there have been so many times where I have said yes to absolutely everybody and UK listeners. You will get this when the vicar of Dibley says yes to three Christmas dinners. I have been there and it is a stressful situation. Like I have, I've fallen into it where someone goes, oh, we're meeting up for a drink, do you want to come? And I just go, oh, yeah, absolutely. No problem, mate, I'll be there, I'll be there. And that's the day that I'm meant to do my Christmas shopping. And now I'm gonna let everybody down. And these are the, the, the little elements that I battle through.

[Jordan James]

People invite you out places, believe it.

[Simon Scott]

Or not, it happens, man.

[Jordan James]

No, I'm just thinking no one invites me anyway.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, yeah, there's a few guys that I play golf with that were like, do you want to go for a beer before Christmas? So I was like, yeah, I would love that, absolutely. But I really had to think about it.

[Jordan James]

Huge rsd. I'm like, I've got all these friends, but none of them want to hang out with me.

[Simon Scott]

But this is the thing is maybe they just go, no, Jordan probably wouldn't be bothered in that and that again. But then there you go, you've played on. The thing there is, if I say no, will I ever get asked again? So there's lots of things in there that my brain goes to is, well, if I don't, if I say no, they'll forget I exist and I won't get any invites next year. Like, these are all anxieties that go through my brain this time of year.

[Jordan James]

Catastrophizing.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Simon Scott]

It's not like me, is it?

[Ashley Bentley]

Well, so a few things here. I mean, we've all heard the following, that no is a complete sentence. And we know, I assume most people have heard this. If you haven't heard this yet, I'm here to tell you that no is a complete sentence. You don't have to offer any reason why you can just say no. Now that is a very. Well, yeah, so that's a very general term to use for people who have, have a difficult time saying no. Now let's the Christmas edition of this because we don't you know, no seems, yeah, a bit harsh.

[Jordan James]

Bugger off. That's what I say.

[Ashley Bentley]

So a few things here, because as you've rightly pointed out, Simon, I think sometimes we say yes before we've even thought. Like, we can't. You know, we haven't. Yes. Has left our mouth before we've even processed what the person has said. It's just been like a reaction rather than a response in those cases, even. So, if you realize it right in the moment, you can correct yourself and go, oh, my gosh, I can't. I would normally, I would love to, but I can't. I've got something else going on. That's all you need to say. Now, if somebody else wants to know exactly what it is you've got going on, then that is really a good point to say to yourself, right, I don't need to give them any more information so you can say, I can't really, you know, there's a lot. I've got a lot going on. I've got a lot going on. I would love to. Please invite me the next time. If they are true friends, they will understand. And if people don't understand, you know what, you probably don't want to have those people too close in your life anyway.

[Jordan James]

This is why neurodivergent people should be friends with neurodivergent people only. I'm just joking. But it does help, is that if. If somebody's a good friend and they know you well, just be like, I haven't got enough spoons for them.

[Simon Scott]

So.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jordan James]

Because if, if. So if I. If I said, do you want to hang out on Sunday and have a Christmas dinner with me and my family? And someone said, I do not have enough spoons for that. And I'd be like, would you. Can. Would you like to do something else? And then I've left it in their capable.

[Ashley Bentley]

Perfect.

[Jordan James]

So if. If they want to hang out.

[Simon Scott]

Great advice.

[Jordan James]

I've been like, I. I'm willing to hang out with you on your terms.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

Because I want to hang out with you. So I literally did that with my friend. It's like we were having a big Christmas thing on Sunday and I was like, that's. It's probably too much. So I was like, oh, do you want to go and do some pictures of some birds? Because I know he likes that. So I want to hang out with my friend at Christmas, but I chose something that I know that makes him comfortable and that we can do together. And that way you bridge the gap that's how you know what a true friend is, is because you know them and you are willing to make changes and reasonable adjustments. Accommodations. Exactly.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

That's how you know you got a good neurodivergen friend. And the, the other thing I would say is like, you can just put it out there, just, oh, do you want to hang? And then like I said, you just wait for them to be like, yeah, and then they'll tell you and you'll be like, okay, well, I'm gonna have spoons for that. And it's just, it's just a communication thing, which obviously I think we do struggle with, but I think we only really struggle with communicate, like a lot of communication. Because people don't understand how we communicate.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yes, yes. And I think also we need to cover the area of this coming from family. So it may not be friends, but. And that's a whole other dynamic because it could be, you know, you've got a family member that maybe you historically don't get along with, but yet you're all having to converge over Christmas and trying to get along.

[Jordan James]

Now, you see, I won't do that.

[Simon Scott]

I.

[Jordan James]

If I don't get on with someone, then I'm not going to get out my way to hang out with them. I will just avoid them because I look after myself. I've put myself through that too many times where I'm like, oh, I've got to hang out with. If you're ever thinking, oh, I've got to hang out with that asshole, oh.

[Simon Scott]

Don'T sit me next to that.

[Jordan James]

Don't. Just don't do it. Like, look after yourself. And don't be afraid to say what you think.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

Say, well, he's a dickhead. I'm not sitting with him.

[Simon Scott]

He grabs the mince pies with his fingers and then he doesn't. He puts them like, I sat opposite Christmas dinner with somebody a few years ago who like picked out which potatoes they wanted, looked at them, put them back, and I was like, fingers, fingers.

[Jordan James]

Double dippers are so annoying.

[Ashley Bentley]

If you do find. If someone out there does find themselves in a. Because it may not be. You may end up on. In a situation for whatever reason. Maybe your spouse got you into a situation of dealing with people that maybe you wouldn't normally deal away divorce. And.

[Jordan James]

If, if your spouse is putting you in that situation, get a new spouse immediately.

[Simon Scott]

I. It's. We can't choose our uncles and aunts and cousins, unfortunately.

[Ashley Bentley]

Exactly.

[Simon Scott]

I found difficult.

[Jordan James]

If Sylvia met up with her family, she'd be like, you don't want to go, do you? And I'll be like, no. She's like, that's cool because I have a good spot. Oh yeah, Sylvia don't want to take me anywhere. I'm a nightmare. What you talking about?

[Ashley Bentley]

If you find yourself have it. If somebody is asking you and you want to say no, but you're in a situation where it's feeling this is going to get political and this could have far reaching consequences in the family and things like that. What you can do is give them what's called a double bind. And this is a really great technique that gives the illusion of choice, but you're in charge. So you give people two options and both of those options are things you want to do that are different from what they've asked you to do. So you say, well, I can't do that, but I can do this or that. And this or that are the things that you want to do. And they get the illusion of choice of, oh, okay, well I would like this one then.

[Jordan James]

So I can turn around and say, well, I'm either going to play Halo or am I going to play Bioshock? Those are your two options.

[Ashley Bentley]

Which would you like? And present it as, okay, I'm going to do.

[Simon Scott]

Which would you like to see? I had a similar sort of situation with this a little while ago, not Christmas related, but I had a friend who I think is autistic but is very not in that mindset. And he essentially had a debate with me where he was like, do you really think that you're autistic? And rather than sort of going into it, my opening line was, do you feel like you have enough confidence to debate me on a subject that you don't know enough about because you will be embarrassed. The choice is yours.

[Jordan James]

I love it.

[Simon Scott]

I love it. And I was like, yeah, okay, fair enough. I was like, that's cool. We can have a debate. It won't go well for you, but we can if you like. And normally people don't want to debate me when I come with that sort of energy. They just don't. Yeah.

[Ashley Bentley]

And what you're saying is really the truth of what's, what's unfolding in that moment. And you're, you're, you're really identifying it and that's a really beautiful thing to do. So, yeah, it is a tricky one. And you're right, Jordan, if there is somebody, anybody in your life, be it family or otherwise, and they are not respectful of you and you don't have to be anywhere. You can remove yourself from any situation, and you should if you're in a situation that is toxic and unhealthy.

[Jordan James]

I literally have spent my. My entire life making people not want to hang out with me that I don't like.

[Simon Scott]

So.

[Jordan James]

Because I'm so opinionated, so argumentative, I won't back down. Because if you don't agree with me, you're wrong, and I'm just joking, sort of. But, yeah, I. Because I am just in your face all the time. I'm the person people don't want to hang out with. And that's so flipping perfect, because if you want to hang out with me and you know the energy that I'm going to bring and that's okay with you, then I'm not going to feel bad for being myself around you. But if I'm the sort of person that you don't want to be around, then I don't want to be around you. Even if. Even if I was friends with someone and they were like, okay, we're gonna have this meal, and, you know it's gonna be like this. But, you know, Jordan will always complain about desserts. They're really expensive. I want more food on my plate. But if people don't like going to restaurants with me, then don't go restaurant with me. I'm not gonna feel bad about it anymore. Like, I've spent my whole life worrying about what other people think, and I. I care what other people think. I'm not going to get out of my way to be a dick, but I'm not going to worry that maybe I am sometimes a dick, if you know what I mean.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah.

[Simon Scott]

No, yeah. Because it's the masking thing. I'm still more tied to my mask. And there is that sort of anxiety of the perception imposter syndrome, which is more aligned with sort of how I feel. More so than yourself. For sure. For sure. And there is a. There is a part of me that has done that. There's been times where I've had political debates with people at Christmas, and I've always gone with the sure, you want to do this today? And they go, oh, I'm absolutely up for it. And I go, okay, don't say I didn't warn you. And I've had conversations with people, and it's not always gone well. I find that it's not necessarily that I worry about not getting invited in places because there's certain times where I've gone off. I'm so relieved I didn't get us back to that. Like, that is sort of a freeing thing. But again, there is this sort of energy that I have. Like, you've said to me many times, dude, it's like, don't yuck my yum. Like, yep, no, cool, totally get that. And I understand that part of. Especially certain people in my family, Christmas dinner, they're almost up for it. They look forward to it. They look forward to that energy. They look forward to the debate and turning it into a public square of, of conversation and falling out with people. Some people are up for it. I'm really not. And, you know, it's, it's being invited to places and I do this now where I go, who's going? Yeah, oh, this person's going. This person's going, oh, what time do you want me to be there? And like, they go, oh, we want you from 11 o' clock until 6. I go, I will be there at 4.

[Jordan James]

I think this, this is like the different dynamic that you and I have is the fact that your life is very much around, like, uncles, aunties, cousins, mum, dad. I don't have any of that. I don't have any of those people in my life. I, I have sisters and a brother somewhere. But like, we don't hang out because they're all spread all over the world, like in different countries, in different parts of the uk, so we're not all. We don't hang out as such. It's. We have quite a broken family. So I don't really have any of that pressure. So the only family that I will spend time with is my family, who I spend time with every single day. So there's no difference. There's no. I mean, we, we have Christmas dinner, but to be honest, I could have Christmas dinner tomorrow, just a roast dinner. Yeah, it doesn't make. Yeah, that's any difference what day is. So there's no pressure on, like, oh, this day has to go well, or we might end up having an argument. I could end up having an argument tomorrow because the people I'm spending Christmas with is the people I spend every day with. Like I said, you just gotta have agency and you've just gotta be prepared to be like, yeah, I'm not hanging out with that.

[Ashley Bentley]

And also remember that when families get together, like, old identities and old roles get reignited and, and that, you know, the tip for looking at your fellow shoppers as just a bunch of kids, try and do that with your family as well. And realizing, gosh, everybody's really just operating from Remember, it's like six year old us running the show for everybody. We build our model of the world in those first seven years. And there's a great quote from Ram Dass, who a spiritual teacher, he said, oh, you think you're enlightened? Go spend two weeks with your family. And it's so like, it's so true.

[Jordan James]

Does that dynamic shift worry you, Scotty, if you think even if you're like, oh, I want to go to that family event with my cousins, my uncles, my aunts and you know, and your parents and whatever, but the fact is, is that in your day to day life, you are a grownup, you are in charge, you own your own house, you know, you are fully a grown up. But when you go into that dynamic, does, does that shift of like, oh, no one's going to treat you like that. They're just going to treat you like as if you were a kid again, infantilize you a little bit.

[Simon Scott]

Because a lot of my family was fractured and has come back together and I was away for a lot of it. Now it's 11 years. I was absent from every, everybody's lives. And there's people that have got kids that are 6, 7, 8 years old that I'm meeting for the first time. So it's like I've, I've been gone for a long time so I can sort of set the, the tone with it. But also in a, in a way, a lot of people still have the mindset. I, I don't even know. I don't even know. I'm just probably projecting. But I feel like people don't see me as me. They see my mask, they see the person that I used to be. They see the things that I used to get up to and the people I used to hang around with.

[Jordan James]

Oh, yeah.

[Simon Scott]

And I feel like, because that's the only version that they know, that's the only version of me they talk to and they go, oh, what are you doing about that now? I'm like, I haven't done that in 10 years. Oh, well, I thought you really liked that. And I was like, and I thought you weren't going to ask me such a dumb question at Christmas, but here we are. And that is the energy that I give because I am, I am sake and I am dry. That is my humor. It doesn't always land well with people that haven't spent a lot of time around me. They just think that I'm blunt and rude and offish, which I am sometimes. But not, not, not all the time. And there is this sort of thing where, like, I can see in so much of my family how much neurodivergent traits there are, like, across the board. I didn't pick this up on the playground. I was the one that had the most visible traits, and I was the, like. When the majority of my family learned that I were autistic, none of them went, what? Simon? No, they all went, oh, okay, that's. That's a label for whatever that was. And that's the sort of energy that I kind of feel. But a majority of my family really want to get to know me. The other majority are taking themselves away and doing their own thing, which, to be honest, I'm kind of grateful, if I'm being honest, but it's Caris's family and integrating with her family. Yeah. I have not earned the ability to give rebuttals. Sometimes I think it's like if one of her uncles is spouting off about politics and go, well, we all agree, don't we? I want to put my hand up and go, no, I really don't. And let me tell you my 10 points. Why? But because I haven't got those relationships with certain members of her family. I feel like I kind of have to just sit on my hands. Like, my justice sensitivity kicks in. And in the end, I don't want to turn to Carys, who's with her family. Maybe she wants to spend a lot of time with. And after a few hours go, oh, your cousin second removed has pissed me off. Can we go now? It's like, I feel like I want to almost be there for her, but if I don't want to be there, I feel like I'm in between a rock and a hard place with that one.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah. And there's a really great phrase that I think can help with this, where you can feel like you're still staying in your authentic self, but also not causing a disruption, especially if it's a partner's family, and that is meeting people where they are. If we focus on that phrase, that is a way where you can feel you can be your authentic self, but meet people where they are, and you don't have to agree with everything that they are saying, but you can agree with understanding what they're trying to say and leaving it at that of like, okay, I'm getting to know you right now, and so I'm understanding you. I'm taking in this information, and I'm not gonna bring my stuff to the table because I'm a new person in this situation. This is, as you say, it kind of takes, it takes a while to really build a foundational relationship with your partner's family. And even then it can, it can be a slippery road to really, you know, saying everything that you're feeling about a certain topic. But meeting people where they are is a great way to just, you know, you can kind of, it's a much better way internally to say, you know, I'm just not going to say anything right now because I'm just meeting people where they are.

[Jordan James]

That's really good advice.

[Simon Scott]

That's great advice. I'll definitely, I already, I already know who I'm going to use that with.

[Jordan James]

So I think we're all out of spoons for this one. It's actually been a really, really interesting episode. I really hope everyone's got something out of it. We, we haven't gone over our advice like parental advice when you have kids and things like that. So what I would suggest to anyone listening is go back to last year's Christmas episode where we do deep dive into those things. And I believe this, it's a really good episode. It's really, really helpful to help parents prepare for Christmas with their neurodivergent children. So yeah, give that one a listen to as well.

[Simon Scott]

Honestly, today is actually genuinely really helped relieve a little bit of my anxiety about Christmas. So if it's had that sort of effect for any of the listeners, I'm really pleased. You've given me some great tools there, Ashley and sort of sharing your experience. Jordan, you remind me to unmask sometimes and you're like no you don't, you don't have to do that. That and that, that is also super helpful as well. So if you've listened and you've enjoyed it, please drop in the comments below. I'd love to hear any of your advice. If you are a long term sufferer neurodivergent of Christmas, if you're a we're a bar humbug like I have been and can be, I want to hear how you sort of turned it around. So that would be very helpful. Get us in the comments. And as always, thank you so much, Ashley for joining us. You are a legend and keep listening to the Mindful Monday series. It's been so great to see people listening to it, enjoying it, connecting with it so long. May that continue. It's been such a help for me and I love listening to it. So wonderful. We will be back tomorrow with a hot topic. Ashley will be back with you in your feed on a Monday. And if you don't listen to us between now then Merry Christmas. Happy New Year. We'll see you then. Bye everybody. Merry Christmas. What day is it today?

[Jordan James]

Tuesday.

[Simon Scott]

Thanks for tuning in to the neurodivergent Experience. We hope today's episode sparks something for you, whether it's a new idea, a bit of validation, or just a moment of connection. Remember, new episodes are every week, so be sure to join us for the next one for more conversations and insights into the neurodivergent experience. If you've enjoyed this podcast, help us grow. You can do that by rating and reviewing this show. Your support makes a huge difference in helping us reach more people who could benefit from these conversations. You can connect with us on social media, find us on Instagram, Facebook, Tik tok. Just search for the neurodivergent Experience. Thank you again for listening and until next time, take care of yourself. You're not alone in this this journey.

[Ashley Bentley]

A rich life isn't a straight line to a destination on the horizon. Sometimes it takes an unexpected turn with detours, new possibilities, and even another passenger or three. And with 100 years of navigating ups and downs, you can count on Edward Jones to help guide you through it all. Because life is a winding path made rich by the people you walk it with. Let's find your rich together. Edward Jones Member SIPC.

[Simon Scott]

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

[Ashley Bentley]

Are you a fantasy reader looking to cure your book hangover? Then welcome, welcome, welcome to the Fantasy Fangirls Podcast. I'm Lexi, older sister and fantasy lore nerd. And I'm Nicole, younger sister and romantic at heart. And we love exploring these stories, worlds and characters well beyond the last page. Fantasy Fangirls is not your typical book. Deep Dive Podcast when we say Deep Dive, we mean Deep Dive, where every episode covers a stretch of chapters and is structured with five segments to easily follow along. We are currently deep diving Quicksilver by Callie Hart in the lead up to its highly intensive anticipated sequel, Brimstone. We're so excited. We hope you join us as we travel through the Quicksilver to dive deep into literary and character analysis, theories, lore, themes and so much more.

[Simon Scott]

ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.