Jordan James (2:34)

Pretty sure that's not French.

Scott (Scotty) (2:40)

But no. Honestly, dude, it's like that's one of the best live shows I've ever been to. I bet. I've been to like over 300 gigs and I was just like absolutely blown away by it all. It was so, so cool. Especially like knowing that she's ND as Well, and just like the world that she built and all the concepts and stuff, it was just absolutely incredible. Blown away. But the sort of, like, the comedown that I've had from that and like, having to, like, re. Regulate back into my working life has just been nothing short of a shit show this week. Like, you step away from work for three days, and I came back to my desk on Tuesday and I was like, how do I do my job? I've completely forgotten how to do everything. So it's been a really slow transition back into work for me this week.

Jordan James (3:23)

I believe I. I can top your Lady Gaga concert in Amsterdam with a. We did. I just got tickets. Would you believe this? I can't believe I got tickets for this. A Beatles tribute band in Crawley. Honestly, I. I cannot be happier with my Beatles tribute band in Crawley. I raise you my Beatles tribute band and I see you on the dance floor.

Scott (Scotty) (3:50)

Okay, that's good to know. Yes. I didn't know you could do dick measuring competitions on the airwaves, but apparently I've just lost one.

Jordan James (3:58)

Yes. Yeah. Beatles tribute band.

Scott (Scotty) (4:00)

Will Paul exploding himself in this show. Have you seen the memes of Paul Makai playing Live and Let Die and then just combusting into play?

Jordan James (4:11)

I don't think it quite compares, but in my brain I'm like, I. I find. I find the idea of just going to, like, a local theater, listening to a tribute band of, like, songs I really, really know and love, just so much more comfortable than, like, traveling to Amsterdam with, like, stressful thousands. I think there's like maybe 500 seats in this entire theater.

Scott (Scotty) (4:33)

And I'm like, I think There was like 500 seats in my row.

Jordan James (4:36)

Yeah, exactly. Like tens of thousands of people.

Scott (Scotty) (4:40)

It was like 16,000 people that were there, and our seats were just like, holy shit, they were incredible.

Jordan James (4:47)

I'm in. In the words of Danny Glover, I'm too old for this.

Scott (Scotty) (4:50)

Yes, I suppose. But no, it was. No, it was just unreal. Absolutely unreal. One of the best things I've ever done.

Jordan James (4:58)

So what are we talking about today, Scotty?

Scott (Scotty) (5:01)

This sort of comes off the back of. I've been working on the Late Diagnosis Club, which is a new podcast, and we've had many discussions about this, which is, would childhood diagnosis have made our life any different? And we. We have quite a lot of conversations about this, really, don't we? In a way. Yeah.

Jordan James (5:18)

I've got. I've got a lot of opinions. Some of them may even be controversial.

Scott (Scotty) (5:23)

It's not like you, but. Yeah, no, but it is a sort of, like, controversial thing, really, I suppose, isn't it? I mean, like, when I first got diagnosed at 28, I think the majority of my, like, mental energy and thought process was questioning, would things have been different if I'd been diagnosed at 7 years old or 14 years old and not 28? And I go, what would have changed? What trauma would I probably have maybe not have experienced? What sort of person would I be? Would I be the unmasked advocate that I am now? Would. Is that who I would have become sooner? So all of these questions really did sort of float through my brain in that very sort of raw period after being diagnosed. And then I, you know, one of the things I love about having conversations with you so much, bro, is you bring me back down to earth and remind me of how naive I am sometimes. That's what we're talking about today is, you know, I've said to you, oh, everything would have been different. And you went, yeah, but would it have been good?

Jordan James (6:28)

Exactly. Because I believe that there are a lot of pitfalls to the, to getting an early diagnosis. But before we go into the cons, let's start with the pros. Let's start with the pros because let's be honest, I think overall it's probably is better like that. Like, if my final thoughts at the beginning of the podcast is, I think overall nowadays it's, it's definitely better. But I think in my day.

Scott (Scotty) (7:05)

In.

Jordan James (7:05)

The 80s, when dinosaurs roamed the earth.

Scott (Scotty) (7:09)

Take you to a different time.

Jordan James (7:11)

Yeah, I, I actually think that it would have been really bad. But let's, let's get on to the pros. So for you, what, what is like your first pro of, like, early, if you had got diagnosed, say like before you were 10, I think, I think that that's where we, we can go mentally. So anytime before we're 10, straight off.

Scott (Scotty) (7:36)

The bat, and this is me thinking nuanced, not like overly idealistic, and thinking about what I have now, I think I would have had access to support, accommodations and validation as to why I am the way I am sooner. So, you know, there were so many times during school where I probably could have used extra time for exams. I definitely could have had one on one more, one on one time with teachers to sort of help me. And I definitely would have liked a little bit more compassion from a lot of people that I was dealing with. I used to wind people up and frustrate them. So I feel like if I'd had a diagnosis, I feel like I would have been able to have asked for support at school without feeling like a burden. And I feel like accommodations would have been not necessarily given to me, but I would have been at least aware that I could have got accommodations rather than just have you just thought about trying harder. And I would have feel validated. I mean, so much of, like, the, the trauma and confusion that I carry into my adult mental health life and still battle with a lot of the days, these days is I was so confused as to why I saw the world differently. And I would speak to other people and go, do you feel the world like this? Do you see the world like this? And they just look at me like I've just grown a second head. Whereas I feel like if I'd gone, well, I'm autistic and I don't understand the world, I think people wouldn't have took the piss out of me as much, maybe, and they might have had a little bit more sort of patience with me.

Jordan James (9:08)

I disagree. I, I will always say that. I, I, I just, I don't think kids care, like, so I, I, I don't think I would have been bullied less if people knew I was autistic. If they knew that I was adhd, they knew I was dyslexic. I think that in fact, it would have been worse. So I, I don't think it would have made a difference to me. So I don't, I don't, I don't put that as a, as a pro, because for me, it's that, that goes in the con category.

Scott (Scotty) (9:45)

Well, this is why, this is a sort of interesting discussion because these sorts of lists here, like, but then again, I have to sort of remind myself that I wasn't 10 years old in 2025. I was 10 years old in 2004. So I have to sort of think about, like, the kids that I was coming to school with as well.

Jordan James (10:02)

I would have thought that it would have been better in 2004. I, I think that it would have actually been a possible pro for you.

Scott (Scotty) (10:10)

Yes, yes.

Jordan James (10:12)

I don't know about kids back then, but I know that, that things were better than they were in the 80s. I mean, that just goes without saying.

Scott (Scotty) (10:24)

Yes, absolutely.

Jordan James (10:25)

So I think, I mean, if I'm, look, if I'm, you know, talking about, like, if I was like seven or eight years old, I mean, I was horrifically bullied anyway, so I just think it would have added onto it. So the pro that I would have had is that my family would have been more understanding, not Necessarily the school, but my family would have been more understanding. My family would have been more patient. I wouldn't have fallen out with so many of my brothers and sisters. Like, I have multiple. And I, I, I do wonder and I, and I'm not going to go into it because I know it's always a sad subject. I, I do wonder, had I, had we known back then about my neurodivergence, would I have been even closer with my brother who passed away, you know, because he looked after me. He, he basically brought me up. But I also think that had I known about it would. Then we understood my dad better because when I got diagnosed, my dad was still alive and for the last five years of his life I understood him better because I started understanding autism and I started understanding myself in relation to my version of autism. And then genetically I'm very similar to him and his version of autism, although I do believe that I'm far more the ADHD stereotype.

Scott (Scotty) (12:04)

Yes.

Jordan James (12:04)

But I, I would, I would definitely. We would have, we would have understood each other a lot more and I think me and him would have had a better relationship. So that would have been my massive pro, that if I was diagnosed autistic because everyone thought I was hyperactive, but there wasn't enough information and it was just a word because I ate sweeties, suddenly I was hyper. So it was all to do with sugar, which is, had we understood ADHD better back then and had I, people knew I was autistic. I, I definitely think, because it's not like there was no information and especially if, if I like look at it, obviously then I'd go over 10. But if I look it into the 90s, it definitely started getting better.

Scott (Scotty) (12:53)

Yeah.

Jordan James (12:53)

But I, yeah, so that's, that's a big pro, I guess for me, my family wouldn't have hated me.

Scott (Scotty) (13:00)

But that's the thing is that's sort of what I sort of feel like with, and you know, you're right, it's sort of like different experiences. But I agree with that. I think my parents would have been a lot less worried about me if they actually had words to explain or understand what I kind of had going on. And also like, with how much I struggle with being alexithemic. I think having language to sort of describe the experiences that I had going on would have been so helpful because, like, that's been so, so helpful for me in later life where I've had sensory overwhelm and rather than just going, oh, Simon, why are you being so dramatic? It's no, I'm having sensory overwhelm.

Jordan James (13:45)

Yeah.

Scott (Scotty) (13:45)

And yeah, having that sort of language or being able to explain what was going on would have cleared up so much because like, I remember when I was a teenager, a lot of the arguments I would have with my parents was just trying to explain how I was feeling. And then I would say something, they go, oh, but I thought you were saying it was this. And it was like, no, no, no, move on from that. I'm trying to, I'm trying to ex, trying to say this, I'm trying to explain this.

Jordan James (14:08)

Yeah, but I, I'm sorry, but if as long as the understanding is there, then then an earlier diagnosis for you would have absolutely been a massive pro. But because of the lack of understanding, because when I got diagnosed, I never heard the words alexithymia, dyspraxia.

Scott (Scotty) (14:29)

These are all sorts of really modern sort of terms, aren't they?

Simon Scott (14:32)

I guess.

Jordan James (14:32)

Rsd. I, I discovered those things, then I started teaching other people about those things. No, no one ever explained to me about like the different ways we learn. I was the one that told people about the forest versus the trees way of learning, the tree learning versus forest learning. It's like I had to pioneer my own way of explaining things for me because no one else was doing it.

Scott (Scotty) (15:03)

It's very personal now.

Jordan James (15:07)

Loads of people are doing it. The information, thanks to advocates, there's so much information thanks to, to, you know, social media. Social media's got a lot of pitfalls, but thanks to social media, there's a lot of groups, there's a lot of wonderful information out there. You know, learned from advocates, learn from, from us. It's, it's, it's so different. So I think now it's a really positive thing if you can find the right sources. But that's the thing is that it would have been great for you if you had known about all those things because you wouldn't verbally have kicked your own off.

Scott (Scotty) (15:52)

Yes. And I think you've, you've nailed that really well in the. I've sort of discussing like compassion from others or a little bit more patience from teachers or less worry from my parents. But if, if I'm truly honest, I think one of the biggest pros is that I would have had more empathy with myself. Yeah, I think, I think I would have been a lot kinder. I think I would have, you know, in the way that I am now, I allow myself time and space and I respect my own time and space a lot more now. And I also Accept that there are certain things I can't do depending on where I'm at that day. And at that time it was, come on, step up, you're behind, you're not first, you're last. And oh, dude, I beat the shit out of myself. But I think if I'm truly honest, a lot of what I'm sort of hoping for, If I was 10 years old now, I think would be a positive. But maybe 20 years ago, not so much, 30 years ago, definitely not. But the one pro that I would definitely say that would have come from a childhood diagnosis would have been the empathy that I would have had towards myself. I definitely would have been a better friend to myself, a little bit kinder, and would have maybe have found a more positive sort of outlook around my self image.

Simon Scott (17:06)

For sure.

Jordan James (17:07)

Yeah, I, I, for me, I think as well, it would have helped explain things when I was having meltdowns at school because, like, even if you didn't understand Alexithymia and RSD and all the other, like, intricate details of being neurodivergent, people always knows about, people always know about meltdowns. Meltdowns is a huge, huge part of it. And when I was having my meltdowns, because I had often overwhelming meltdowns, especially at school, I think that I would have got more support and I wouldn't have got suspended. I got suspended a lot and I got in a lot of fights, as I've discussed, and I had a lot, lot of issues with, with violence. And I think, I think that would have been dealt with in a better way rather than just like blame and, and making me feel worse about would have been hopefully, because even today nowadays, it's still not understood properly. But that might have been a pro for me, is that I would have gotten, you know, more understanding and probably better resources to help me with my meltdowns and maybe, maybe some aids, maybe being able to wear like headphones and things like that in class, maybe not having to take part in all the sports that I didn't like. And maybe I would have been protected more, I don't know, but I would have hoped so. That's all I can say is that my pro is that I hope that I would have been helped more. Well, let's have a break and then we can get on to the cons.

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Scott (Scotty) (21:33)

Welcome back to the Neurodivergent Experience. We've been asking ourselves a bit of a big question today. Would childhood diagnosis have made a difference in our lives as late diagnosed people? Obviously it's such a huge life changing moment to learn who you are, even if you are a self identifying person. That's just as valid. But obviously the difference between finding out as an adult and finding out as a child is is a huge gulf of time We've talked about what we think would have been the pros and some of the positives. Now this is sort of the reality check you have with me often as my big brother is you, you take, you snap me out of my naivety sometimes. You know, I like to always, sometimes be overly, a bit too overly positive. So let's explore how it might have not made anything better. In fact, it might have made things worse.

Jordan James (22:23)

Yeah. So here's my biggest con. And this is a personal thing. This isn't. I think this is for everyone. Let me be clear. Anyone listening? Everyone's life and everyone's journey is different. Me personally, I think it will massively have held me back because of the way people treated me. And I think my life would have been very different because people would have infantilized me because people would have. It just, just been like, oh, yeah, he's, he's the autistic one. He's the, he's the R word. Because that's how people felt about autistic people back then. They would have automatically gone to Rain man in their head and that's how I would have been judged everywhere I went. So it's bad nowadays for a lot of people. That's why they have, they live in the autism closet, which is why you have a lot more advocates out there being all positive about being adhd. Not so many about the less so about being autistic. That's why I think it's so helpful that we're doing it. And it's like, I'm proud to be autistic. I'm proud to be adhd, neurodiver energy in general. But back then I would have been too scared to tell anyone. But I do have this horrible fear and I, I don't want to say I know this but dude, 25 years now I have been with Sylvia. We are almost on our 25 year anniversary coming up in January. I'm going to have a cool episode. Sylvia is probably going to try and do another episode, fingers crossed. But it was a rocky start between Sylvia and I because I already had a negative reputation. Reputation for being difficult in Poland because.

Scott (Scotty) (24:09)

I'm caught a lot of stigma around you.

Jordan James (24:12)

Yeah, yeah, oh yeah. People in Poland because we had au pairs and because we had family out there and my granddad was Polish and you know, we went to Poland a lot and like Sylvia came over here to work for my mum, for her, for my birth mother, for her beauty clinic because Sylvia just got a beauty degree and she straight away had this Idea that I was just this awful, troublemaking, disgusting creep person and, like violent and just a wrong one. Just. Yeah, just not right in the head. Literally. Like, you know, people used to do the old twirly round the finger around the year, you know, always crazy. That's what the reputation I had. And I didn't even know this, by the way. I had no idea that was the reputation I had. Sylvia told me this later on when she turned around, confessed to me, she said, that's what I thought of you. Because everyone was saying that in Poland. So it's because in Poland, everyone gossiping and like, that's just how it is, you know, especially amongst family and friends. I 100% think Sylvia wouldn't even given me the time of day if she had known that I was autistic back then, based on people's idea of what autism is, which is super, super ironic because Sylvia's also autistic.

Scott (Scotty) (25:42)

Yeah. Yeah.

Jordan James (25:43)

Which she would never have known, ever have known if, if it wasn't for her being with me. But she was the one that pointed out that she thought I was autistic in the first place. She was the one that, that helped me get a diagnosis. But that's only after she's done me for all these years and she's loved me for all these years and she knows who I am and she loves who I am and. But I don't think she would have given me the time of day. I don't think a lot of people would have given me any. Any chances, any time of day. I mean, you just, like you tell me right now, in 2025, if you went for a major job interview and I'm talking to everybody here, or you went to get a promotion in your job, would you. Would you start off with, we are autistic? Would you even be okay with bringing that up in an interview and, and treating it as a positive now in 2025? Because I. I don't think a lot of people would.

Simon Scott (26:40)

It's a risk.

Scott (Scotty) (26:41)

It's a genuine. It's a risk. But it bought.

Jordan James (26:44)

But it is. But it is. So that that for me is my. Is my major con.

Scott (Scotty) (26:51)

So for me, when I think about it, and I have thought about this, I think the major con for me would have been the loss of autonomy in shaping my own identity, because the worry that my parents had around me and the things that I was struggling with and the child that they saw at home and then the child that the teachers saw at school. I do wonder, because this happened When I got diagnosed, the first year that I was diagnosed, I told myself, not what I could do, what I couldn't do. And I genuinely think. And I don't think my parents would have done this. I think this just would have been society in general. Because I have to think about, this would have been 10, 15, 20 years ago. Would I have been pushed to go to university? If I was diagnosed as an autistic kid, would I have been pushed to pursue a career in acting or a career in radio? If I'd have been a career or.

Jordan James (27:48)

A career, would you be like, well, he's disabled. They must live on benefits now, on disability.

Scott (Scotty) (27:55)

But that's the thing is, you know, a little kid from. A little autistic kid from Doncaster. Are people going to. You know, when. When I turned to my mum and went, mum, I want to move to London to be an actor. If my. If I had had an autism diagnosis, would my parents have felt comfortable letting me go? Even more so than how uncomfortable they were already letting me go?

Jordan James (28:17)

I don't know your parents, but I'm just gonna get on a limb and go, no. Because as a parent, you do want to protect your kids.

Scott (Scotty) (28:25)

And that's the thing is, like, would I have. You know, yeah, maybe I would have indulged in special interests more. But then I think about the sort of person that I am. I have so many. I don't just have like one or two. I have like 200. You know, I'm a bit of a culture vulture when it comes to special interests. And I wonder whether. And I don't know if this is true for other people, but I think about the kid that I was. The time that this would have happened, if it. If I was diagnosed at 10 years old, would I have been trapped as the person I was when I was diagnosed, would I have not really have tried certain things? Because I really, really pushed myself to go to drama school and I pushed myself to do student radio, and I really pushed myself in my career. And if I'd had an autism diagnosis, one, I don't think half of the opportunities I got would have come to me because I wouldn't have been there to get them simply because I think by nature or by nurture, I'm not sure. I think I would have had a much more sheltered home life. I think I would have just been at home. I don't think my parents would even say to me, do you want to move out and. And get a girlfriend? And that's not a slight on my parents at all this is me thinking the world that it would have been at the time.

Jordan James (29:40)

No, I get it. You know, I think that for. For parents and for neurodivergent people as they grow older, there is a very, very fine balance between looking after yourself, knowing your limitations, and what can actually harm you by overdoing it because we are so sensitive, but also limiting yourself too much, so you never push yourself beyond those boundaries. That might make you uncomfortable, that might even cause a meltdown, but in the long run can be hugely advantageous to you and your growth as a human.

Scott (Scotty) (30:20)

I would have played it safe, dude. I think I would have to play it safe.

Jordan James (30:25)

I don't think that goes into my head how to play it safe. I'm the most unsafe person I know. But at the same time, would I have wanted my kids to play it safe as a parent would, if I known that they were neurodivergent from a very young age, would I've been more careful? I mean, I was very careful with them anyway because, like, I was abused and I have that thing in my head as I need to be a really good parent. So I didn't multi coddle them. That was a whole thing with me. I do not molly coddle, but I also did do a bit of kid gloves. And I'm wondering, would that mentally have affected me knowing that they were even more delicate than I thought they were?

Scott (Scotty) (31:03)

Well, that's the sort of. That's what the interesting thing for me is. I. Knowing how much my parents worried about me. And Even though I'm 31, my mum still says, you're still my baby. I still worry about you even though.

Jordan James (31:15)

Oh, you're my baby as well.

Scott (Scotty) (31:17)

Thank you, baby. Thanks, baby. But genuinely, I sort of think about it and I go, my mum already had bum gloves with me.

Jordan James (31:29)

You're an only child.

Scott (Scotty) (31:30)

Exactly. But that's what I mean.

Jordan James (31:34)

And you're an only autistic child. Oh, my God.

Scott (Scotty) (31:36)

Yeah. Oh, God. Yeah. But that's. Yeah, exactly. And that's the thing is, like, yeah, maybe I would have been more unmasked. But then I also think about. But how much internalized ableism I would have had because I had that when I got diagnosed. And like, If I'm like 10 years old that I get diagnosed, would I have just stopped playing football? Would I have just stopped what would. What would I have stopped doing?

Jordan James (32:01)

I think. I think it would have been, I think, the perfect scenario. And this goes out to everyone who's listening. The perfect scenario is if your kids are neurodivergent and you definitely should tell them because there was a lot of people I remember experiencing in real life and online saying, oh, maybe I shouldn't. They, they're autistic, but they don't know. And I'm like, no, you need to.

Scott (Scotty) (32:24)

That'S always confused by that. It's like a strange thing for me.

Jordan James (32:28)

But like I said, everyone's got their own journey. But I'm like, you definitely should tell them because I've always told my kids right from the start everything. And, and I think, but one, you have to be positive about it. You just do. And then you have to help put them in the right direction. There's some great books out there nowadays. Not my one, my one's for adults, but there's some great books out there for kids. Dr. Luke Bearden, doctor has some great books about kids. But the most important thing and, and people really, really need to get over their, their, their just cognitive dissonance with this. If you have an autistic child, either you or your husband, wife, partner is neurodivergent in some ways, right? You, you might not qualify for an autism diagnosis, you might not qualify an adhd, but you most likely will then qualify for dyslexia or some, some type of neurodivergent, which is part of the alternative neurotype, which we have talked about many, many times. The alternative neurotype, it's genetic, right? If you don't believe me, that's cool. Then you will carry on in your life and it, you won't help yourself. But as soon as you start opening that door, even if it's only a little bit, you creak, open the door ajar, and you start letting in the idea that you might be neurodivergent or your partner's neurodivergent. And as soon as you know, then you can learn how to be neurodivergent with your kid. And then it's an experience which will bond you.

Scott (Scotty) (34:03)

You can do it together with your.

Jordan James (34:05)

Child and you can, you can show them like I showed my kids, the wonderful side of being neurodivergent and, and then the ability to be able to manage the harder parts of being neurodivergent, because we understand it. And, and that is the real key.

Scott (Scotty) (34:27)

Just sort of reflecting on that and, and thinking about it with sort of my own experiences of, you know, maybe we should have discussed this in the pros. I would have. Like you said, it would have been good for my parents to have learned this about themselves as well. Definitely. But then, you know, I have to remind myself and not be naive, give space for me being honest in that not everything would have magically have just been better. Just waving a magic wand and going, you're diagnosed. Da da da da da da. Everything just being like life is not.

Jordan James (34:59)

An episode of a sitcom. Unfortunately, we don't learn the lesson after half an hour.

Scott (Scotty) (35:06)

No, it's not. But this is, you know, I find this, it's a, it's a great discussion to have and this is why I think, you know, having these sorts of discussions on this show is so important because we are covering the neurodivergent experience. Many of us live with this thinking of going, how might life have, you know, what the magic wand, the magic, the wagic one sound like Roy Hodgson, the magic one have been waived. And suddenly everything that I was struggling with in life was, I would have been fixed. Because as adults when we get diagnosed or we start to sel identify, not everything is better straight away. Sometimes it gets worse. And having this conversation I think is good for anybody that's out there, that's newly diagnosed, that is having these sorts of thoughts, you know, candidly and honestly thinking about it. But let's take a little break and I'm really interested to hear, Jordan, what some of our listeners have got to say about this question.

Jordan James (36:03)

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Scott (Scotty) (39:07)

Welcome. Oh, you got me, you bugger. Welcome back to the Nearer Divergent Experience Experience We've been discussing a rather big question. Would childhood diagnosis have made life any different for late diagnosed people? And we've shared our own thoughts and experiences, the pros and cons of what we think may have been different and that it magically wouldn't have just got better simply because of a diagnosis, but less about us. We're more I'm very intrigued to hear, Jordan, what some of our listeners have had to say about this.

Jordan James (39:35)

So I'm going to do this in a fun way. I haven't prepared any of these in the very, very neurodivergent, demand avoidant way. Excellent.

Scott (Scotty) (39:41)

Thank you.

Jordan James (39:41)

I haven't actually prepared any of these. Well, I mean lots of them. So I can just randomly pick some. I don't know whether they're good or not, but I'm oh my God, that's a long one. I'm gonna go to Robbie Prosser Now I know he doesn't mind me saying his name because he's an advocate. He often tags me in a lot of posts. Very, very, very, very nice guy. He's a great man. He's the greatest man.

Scott (Scotty) (40:06)

I met this guy, I thought what a great guy. I liked him anyway. Sorry, it just comes so naturally.

Jordan James (40:15)

Oh God. Anyway, so Robbie says having a diagnosis confirmed what I already knew. I had realized I was autistic in my mid-20s when I had discussions with my father after he had read an article in a Sunday newspaper about autism. My struggles at school finally made sense and it was finally confirmed with the diagnosis in 2014. I, however, however realized I am also ADHD after a conversation. Sorry, but surprise, surprise after a conversation with someone who is adhd. How he described his ADHD traits fitted my traits I had that did not fit my autism diagnosis. Sorry, dyslexia is kicking in. I was referred for ADHD diagnosis over three years ago and I'm still waiting. Well, we are going to get onto that on the hot topic. While I understand my autistic and ADHD traits, there is no useful support available from adult and autism team. I organize my own support so it fits my own needs hand make my own needs hand make best use of finances I have. I'm trying my best here people. I don't however, have sufficient support and face vision due to misuse of safeguarding. I'm not going to say there's a pro con. I'm just going to say this is this man's story of late diagnosis. But I'm going to say it was a pro for him to be diagnosed at all and but it is definitely a con that it's not getting. He's not getting the support because it's pros and cons of late diagnosis. Not necessarily pros and cons of being early diagnosed. So somebody says don't see any cons. I just understand myself a bit better, that's all. That's fair enough. This lady says diagnose age 60. It has totally changed my life for the better. So I wish I'd known decades ago. So obviously for her I think that it would have made a massive difference just understanding herself earlier, you know. But when you get into your 60s, I mean we're quite fortunate. We were both in our. Well you were in your late 20s, I was in my mid-30s. So I think that even that's like pretty good. Someone says pros. It has answered a lot of questions. That's definitely the same for me. Cons. There is no support. I am having to rely on YouTube videos from other late diagnosed people to make sense of it all. Seems that's always a common theme. I mean, when, when I was like diagnosed, like I said that they, they didn't know any of the terminology. I had to learn everything myself. I didn't have YouTube videos and things to go to at that time. So, yeah, that's, that's why I stop. I literally made a bunch of YouTube videos. It was the only time I ever made YouTube videos was literally I had like six or seven videos where I just like this would. This is what I needed to know when I was diagnosed. And it just helped people. It's quite funny because that's like so old and I'm talking about synaptic pruning even back then.

Scott (Scotty) (43:20)

Yeah.

Jordan James (43:22)

Pro. I understand my eating or lack of better and try to be kinder to myself. See, that's a, that's a really interesting one because imagine you understood ARFID or you know, eating disorders and, and how they're linked to autism because there's so many people that when they're younger and I'm guilty of doing this with my own daughter of like, oh, it's on the plate. Eat it.

Scott (Scotty) (43:44)

I had that. I think that would have been a bit of a game changer. I'm just seeing one here which I think is cleverly written. Con. It can provide a narrative about why life has been so hard and you can embrace an unfortunate mentality towards life. Pro. It can provide a narrative about why life has been so hard and you can forgive yourself and better understand yourself moving forward.

Jordan James (44:09)

Oh, I do have another con, actually. And I think this is like an obvious con. Is, is the fact that it, it can hold people back. Like, like we said with, with you is like, would you have pushed yourself? But like, it can just hold people back because of the expectations that are put on them are less than. But at the same time, it's kind of difficult for me because this might sound controversial, but it's almost like if you're diagnosed and I know this isn't true, this is just how it is for me that if I, if I'm diagnosed very, very young in my brain, I'm. I'm not as tough as I am now. Like, I, I didn't, I get that. And I, and I, and, and I do believe that, that a lot of the problems that I've had in life, a lot of the anger I've had, a lot of the mental health issues is because I've had to tough it out. But I also think that a lot of positives I have in my life of, of how I don't give up, how I push myself, how much I've achieved, like how successful I am not only as, as a parent, as a husband, as a friend, but as a person. And, and you know, and I got to like, manager status in my work, you know, and I, and I will fight. I fight on this podcast. Like I fight for our people. I'm doing this podcast because I am fight. And so I could, I could literally do a whole list of pros and cons about, like, being a fighter. Like is. Has it damaged me? Yes. Has it benefited me? Yes. So it's, like I said, it's a very, very fine line. And I think that it's not just being early diagnosed, which again, let me make it clear, I do think that's. That's the best thing, especially nowadays.

Scott (Scotty) (46:03)

Yes.

Jordan James (46:04)

I think, I think it's how you then go about teaching your young neurodivergent person how being neurodivergent is actually good as well as finding support for, for their disabilities. You know, it's research. Research. Listen, understand. It's all there. I just. I just wish there was more help. These people I'm reading, they're just, I need help. I need help.

Scott (Scotty) (46:36)

Yeah. Let me just read one more here because this touched on something I discussed in a very early episode. I wasn't identified as specifically autistic at 3, but had not yet acquired speech, and my parents were advised to stick me in an institution and start their family again. Crikey. This is from a long time ago. So had there been an official diagnosis and more pressure, things may have turned out a lot worse for me. I could have been put through aba. Although parenting at the time was pretty much based on ABA principles, that did not turn out great for me. So the big con for me, having lost 50 years of my life trying to make my brain function in a way it wasn't designed to, is in reality wishful thinking. And their pro is having been identified in a much more neuro affirming time means I now understand how to work with my brain and not against it. I still carry a lot of damage from the last 50 years. I'm finally healing and looking forward to having a better next half century. And that's sort of how, you know, that sums it up really well for me in that, yeah, if I'd been diagnosed at 10 years old. If you had been diagnosed at 10 years old, the zeitgeist would have really have had a huge effect on where we would have been in life. Like if we'd been diagnosed in the 40s. Christ, you know, the life experience that you would have had. And I have so much empathy with this lost generation of autistic people, you know, that were born in the 50s, the 60s, the 70s, that have grown up with so much confusion and so much prejudice and even like self prejudice and internalized ableism, feeling like an alien, you know, this, this, this cocktail that so many of us experience. My heart literally goes out to so many of these people that, that struggle and have spent so much of their life and now feel like they have regret because they were missed. That this, this lost generation. But again, if you had been diagnosed in the 50s and the 60s and the 70s, it could have been a lot worse.

Jordan James (48:41)

Institutionalized.

Scott (Scotty) (48:43)

It could have been a lot worse. Worse.

Jordan James (48:47)

Yeah. It's like I said, I think more than anything there is no answer to this because it all comes down to how you are neurodivergent in what decade you were born and who you are as a person and also what biological sex you were born as. And also where in the world you were born. Oh yeah, there's so many variants because the human race is so diverse that there is no right or wrong answer. There is just experience and the possibility. So everyone's going to have their own thing. But someone put this, which pretty much goes how I have it in my head is that The Pro is no 1. The Pro to getting late diagnosed over early diagnosis is no one coddles you when you're little and you end up a tough as nails survivor. Now, like I said, I don't know if that's good or bad, but I know that it has worked out for me. But I've realized there's not a lot of people like me. That's, that's what I realize. And even being me, I have had a lot of therapy. So it's not, it's definitely hasn't been an easy ride.

Scott (Scotty) (50:21)

No, it's. And it's not been an easy ride for me. And you know what? Along the way I've had some really shit moments, you know, that I would have preferred not to have experienced. But I have to remind myself that the, the man that I am sit, you know, sitting with my big bro at this microphone, talking to you, the listener. I would not be the man that I am if I'd not experienced the things that I've experienced. And you know what, dude, there are some days where I feel mentally really frail and quite naive and childish. And then there's some days I'm fucking tough as old boots and I'm people support network and they know that they can come to me for empathy because I will give it to them. And I've got a lot of compassion. And I think one of the reasons as to why I've got so much compassion is because I didn't always get it when I needed it and I can see what others do. So, you know, I think we could talk about this for hours and hours and hours. But I think you're so right. It so depends on who you are as a person. The people that you were born into in this world, the community, the culture, the country, there is so many different variables that affect so many different outcomes. It feels like the butterfly effect, doesn't it? You change one thing and how could your world have been any different? And the not knowing is almost the frustrating part.

Jordan James (51:40)

Yeah, I would say to everyone out there, the most important thing that I've learned in therapy is the past is the past and there's nothing you can do to change that. Only tomorrow matters. So that's the only thing you should focus on. So it doesn't matter whether you were diagnosed as a kid or whether you were diagnosed yesterday, as long as you know now. That's the most important thing because that's when the journey begins. And that's what we're here for, to help you with that journey. So keep listening, keep loving, and we'll see you tomorrow with a hot topic.

Scott (Scotty) (52:20)

We will be back for a hot Too hot, Too Spicy hot topic. Thank you so much for tuning in, everybody. We love you. Stay safe out there. Be kind to yourself if you can. We'll see you tomorrow nightly.

Jordan James (52:31)

Bye.

Simon Scott (52:35)

Thanks for tuning in to the neurodivergent Experience. We hope today's episode sparks something for you. Whether it's a new idea, a bit of a validation, or just a moment of connection, remember, new episodes are every week, so be sure to join us for the next one for more conversations and insights into the neurodivergent experience. If you've enjoyed this podcast, help us grow. You can do that by rating and reviewing this show. Your support makes a huge difference in helping us reach more people who could benefit from these conversations. You can connect with us on social media, find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok.

Scott (Scotty) (53:13)

Just search for the neurodivergent experience.

Simon Scott (53:16)

Thank you again for listening and until next time, take care of yourself. You're not alone in this journey.

Robert Mays (53:33)

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