← The Neurodivergent Experience
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A
Dreaming of getting the all new iPhone 17 Pro, designed to be the most powerful iPhone ever.
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B
Then stay in bed and let a Boost Mobile expert deliver and set it up for you.
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A
Oh, actually they will have to get up and open the door.
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B
Oh, right.
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A
Delivery available for select devices purchased@boostmobile.com terms apply.
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C
Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.
- [00:27]
D
Hey there. If you've ever felt your confidence slip at work, you're not alone. The good news? Confidence isn't a fixed trait. It's a skill. And like any skill, you can build it with the right tools and practice. I'm Anne Morris, CEO and bestselling author, and together with my wife Frances Frey, a professor at Harvard Business School, we host the TED podcast Fixable. This season, we're zeroing in on confidence. What it really is, how to strengthen it, and how to help others see you as the leader you already are. So if you're ready to show up with more conviction, to get promoted, to lead with clarity, to do the best work of your career, join us on Fixable. Wherever you get your podcasts.
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C
Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere.
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E
Acast.com.
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F
Oh. Hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot. Hello and welcome to the Neuro spicy.
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E
Little bit of heat, little bit of spice with your news. Hot, hot, super hot, super spicy Noose.
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F
That was the hot topic.
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E
You're welcome with that on the spot. That wasn't rehearsal.
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F
40 seconds and we're done. Nice. So, Scotty, the hot topic this week is one that is particularly important to me because there is obviously been a lot in the news about. We discussed it in the last Hot topic. Causes.
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E
Oh, yeah, just a bit.
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F
Causes of autism. So right off the bat, what I wanted to say was the idea of saying there's a cause is one suggesting that it's a problem for everyone across the board? Because being autistic is a big problem for a lot of people.
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E
Oh, yeah.
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F
And it does upset me because I literally put out a post that said my wife and I are autistic and we had autistic children. That's why they're autistic. Right. What caused my children's autism was my wife and I having both being autistic and having autistic children. And someone literally went, oh, don't speak for all autistic people. That's just your experience. And I'm like, right. But this same person was like, oh, but we should definitely listen to Donald Trump because Donald Trump isn't apparently speaking for all autistic people. He's literally doing a thing that says Tylenol causes autism and you suffer from it. It's a disease and it's an epidemic repeated by the White House that autism is an epidemic that's destroying families across the board. And instead of saying there is a small amount or some autistic people or various autistic people might have this experience, he just blanket phrase because it suits his fucking agenda, it suits his rhetoric to just blanket diagnose us all as being absolutely miserable and suffering and having the worst life ever because of the autism. That is freaking hate speech, dude. That isn't helpful. All it does is make us out to be broken, like with damaged versions of neurotypical. It's, it's, it's a, it's ableist. It's, it's shitty and it's like we're a minority and we're getting treated like we're a disease. I mean, it's when things come out like this article that says autism and genetics. Which parent carries the autism gene? This article came out three months ago. And it absolutely goes along with what I'm saying. Right. What everybody I know says. Right. Autism is genetic. But we already know that. Yeah.
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E
I mean, when you sort of look at the article that we're discussing is from abacus therapies and I've read this for the first time this morning of the morning of recording and I don't get why this is a thing. I don't get why this is an article simply because like some of the, like the language that it uses, families receive an autism diagnosis. One of the first questions that comes up is it about genetics? Which, you know, as we're discussing and off the back of that, it's like these are completely understandable concerns. It's not as simple as one gene or one parent being responsible.
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F
Yep, responsible.
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E
So this is the sort of like language that's, that's comes from it. It says which parent carries the gene, the mother or the father. Both mothers and fathers can carry genes associated with autism. Since every child receives genetic material from both parents, either parent can potentially pass along genes that increase the likelihood of autism. However, if we're looking at which parents, genetics might have a slightly stronger influence. Recent research suggests something interesting doesn't then give said study goes. Some studies indicate doesn't say which ones, doesn't give links the autism parental gene. The certain genetic variations from fathers might be passed on more frequently as siblings with autism often share more genetic material from their father's side to which it finishes. This doesn't mean that fathers are to blame for autism, nor does it mean mothers don't contribute genetically. And this is what you're saying. This is the sort of article and the language that led me down a really negative place when I first got my diagnosis. Because this is the majority of the stuff that is easily readily available to newly diagnosed people. In that I know it's genetic. That makes total, absolute, total sense to me that it's genetic, because it is. But what absolutely baffles me is that you have an article like this that goes, some studies suggest, show them to me. No links, nothing, no information. And the constant parent blaming, constant parent blaming that comes from all of these articles, you know, that feeds into this, this. I was going to use a different word, but I can't find anyone other than bullshit that we're hearing from Trump. And you know, the numbers that they throw out and just the wording that they use is so goddamn negative. Like somebody has put an update on your child and broken them and if we can get rid of it, you'll have your child back. It just absolutely messes with my head how you have people, you know, like you and I. I would never say that I'm a specialist, I'm an advocate, but why aren't other sites being mentioned? Why aren't there other references? Why do you and I know about all of this information that's done through actual research and yet it never seems to get mentioned? It's just paved over as a book. Don't worry, we'll fix them.
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F
I have lots of discussions with Sylvia about these sorts of things. There's, I think there's, there's, there's two types of science. I mean, not in general, but like that people listen to. It's scientific research that is backed up by peer reviews and decades of research and studies that are done on huge amounts of people or involving huge amounts of people. And then there's pseudoscience or Facebook science as a whole.
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E
Science is a very good way of labeling this.
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F
Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a headline on an article that talks about a study. So it's not. You've read the study. It's. And you haven't even read the article on the study. You've read the headline of the article of the study and everybody knows what a headline is. It's an attention seeking word salad. That's what a headline is.
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E
Or as we call it in the media, a hook A hook?
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F
Yes. It's literally clickbait. So. So people want you to engage with their page. I mean, I don't do clickbait. I mean, people might argue with that. I just talk about being me, but clickbait is. Is something like, oh, musk, you know, releases bees into the atmosphere that are all made of Lego. Yeah. Space bees. Or some. Some crazy, like moonlight. Just, Just. Just make something up. And, and the article would be like, oh, there's a possibility that this thing is in the works. That might happen. Or this. He's mentioned it in an in, blah.
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E
Blah, blah, hypothetically, metaphorically speaking.
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F
But then. Then you actually go to the source of it, which was Musk talking on a podcast that we need more bees. And that episode of Black Mirror where they made robot bees was actually a really good idea, and he'd love to be able to do that.
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E
It's a very musk thing to watch an episode of Black Mirror and go, that's a good idea.
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F
But the point is, it's like what he says, then what the article says, which is misconstruing what he says, and then what the headline says, which is sensationalizing the possibility of what he might do and act like it's the thing that he's going to do. And this, this is the problem with Facebook science is the fact that it would be one study that would show a possible thing for something to do with autism. The. The headline will make it out as to be a fact, and then people will be like, oh, that's a fact. And then what they do, they, they, they. They'll go online and they'll be like, oh, this study shows this. And it's like, well, actually, if you read the study, it hasn't been peer reviewed. It will also say within it that further studies are needed. There are so many autism studies that I get sent that I actually read through, and nearly every single one of them that are done by a reputable organization will say, further studies needed, more information needed, possible link. But that's not sensational. You need to sensationalize this. And the problem is that everybody then repeats the sensationalism and not the facts. But then they'll call that research.
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E
Yeah, and this is the thing that I find so frustrating as well. And I read all sorts of articles, mostly sport, because they're my special interests. And the amount of times I will see super sensationalist headlines around nothing, absolutely nothing. And nine times out of 10, I will click on an article with a sensational headline and it will be Quoting an another article that I have actually read and I'll go, that had nothing to do with what actually was said in the article. It's like taking a punchline from a stand up that tells a 10 minute joke and going, they said this go. You've taken the entire context out, you've taken the meaning out, you take fireman out, you've taken absolutely everything out that can create a factual result. What you've just done is you've just taken hyperbole and spouted it as fact, which is what we were talking about last week.
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F
Here's a perfect example of people trying to make something out of nothing. Is, is with the whole Tylenol thing is that there was that one Cambridge study that suggested a possible link, right? And then obviously sensationalized by Trump and his cron.
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E
These.
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F
But someone did like a screenshot of collage of articles and said, look, all these different articles are showing that there's a link between Tylenol and autism. But when you actually like looked at each article, they were all quoting the same study. And I'm like, well, you can have a hundred articles that say that autism is caused by Tylenol, but that doesn't make it true. Because if it's based on one study that says there's a possibility and more research is needed, all those articles are meaningless because they're, they're, it's all Chinese whispers, isn't it? It's, it's, eventually we'll get to the truth. But you know, that truth is misconstrued because so many people have messed around with it.
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E
I am getting sick to death of reading articles based off sensationalist headlines. And then when I get into it, they're quoting people's tweets, they're not quoting research, they're not quoting fact, they're quoting other opinion pieces and reposting them as if they're fact. And every single time I look at any of these posts I go, well, I can see why you've posted that because I'm now reading it. But it doesn't mean that the paper is written on is worth anything at all. Like, yeah, we're having a conversation about it. You have done what you intended to do. You have started a conversation. But the thing that sort of frustrates me is that common sense is no longer common anymore. Jordan in the people are reading these articles and going, oh, Tylenol gives your kids autism. And then as soon as you quote, you know, tylenol in the 50s and autism in the, you know, very early 20th century. That entire article just might as well be flash paper. It burns up incense. But what absolutely baffles me, absolutely baffles me, is why are these articles so easy to find and the actual research that's being done is just buried and it's so, so difficult to actually filter through it all? That's the bit that messes with my head, dude, is that why aren't people actively looking for real research rather than just fixes and cures?
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F
Because no one's looking for it. So I, like, encourage anyone that listens to this podcast that wants to understand the reduction in synaptic pruning and wants to understand the evolution of neurodivergence and why we're so important. I didn't make this up. It's not like when my idea of autism was very much in line with RFK's idea of what all autism is, you know, 10 years ago.
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E
Yeah, as was mine. My opinion could not be any more different now that I actually know what I know exactly.
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F
Which is why I never thought I was autistic. I didn't fit into the mold. But then suddenly. Oh, like. Well, actually, it's a lot more nuanced than Rain man and Sheldon Cooper. They're like, there is an in between of these two ideas of what autism is, and most of us fit in to somewhere in between. Like that. That's most of us. This is what I was saying is that the minority of neurodivergent people have severe impairments, have high support, like the highest support needs. Right? That. That is actually. That's a minority of us. The majority of us are somewhere in the middle.
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E
The majority of us are undiagnosed.
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F
And that's how I know, because we're already. If you look at the stats, it's more now because of our understanding and our knowledge and the ability of being able to get diagnosed. The umbrella term of autism, it's now it's more people who are lower support needs. Because I still need support with a lot of them. Oh, yes, same, but in comparison. You know, and I really hate this phrase, but this is so people can understand it. The classically high functioning of us. We are the majority. That. That's the point. So if we are already the majority of what autism is, think how much more of a majority we are for like we discussed in the hotel week a couple of weeks ago, 90%. Just in this country. 90% of adults over 40. So that's me and all my friends, my parents and. Yeah, your parents. Yeah. And are undiagnosed. In other words, they haven't even tried to get a diagnosis or they're on the list. And remember, the lists are long. And even for right to choose just for RTN, 7,000 people are just with RTN. So that 7,000 potentially, because not everyone who goes for assessment is going to reach the criteria or is autistic at all. But There are potentially 90% of adults who could reach the criteria from autism diagnosis who are undiagnosed. Now, if you are at the level enough that you've got to the age of 40 and you haven't already got a diagnosis, that means that you're not impaired enough to realize that you were autistic when you were a kid.
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E
Oh, my family would never have known. My dad's run a business, my mum has been a care nurse. They never would have known they were neurodivergent if I hadn't got a diagnosis.
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F
Exactly. So the people that are blanket labeled as autistic, the people that can't do this or can't do that or know the families and, and some, again, some families do suffer. Some autistic people do suffer with impairment. But, but again, that's up to them to tell us. Tell us. Yeah, yeah, I'm not going to tell them they suffer. If they tell me, then I'll be like, yeah, you, you suffer because you just told me so. Absolutely. If, if there are families out there say we suffer because we're autistic, I'll be like, that's, that's terrible. Like, how can we help you? How can we help you? But if you are talking about all autistic people and you are only quoting or only looking at the minority of that autistic demographic and then saying, but that's all of you, that's insane because you're, you're essentially forgetting that you and I, Scotty, are autistic. He's basically saying we aren't autistic. So you either need an. And I won't go to the whole Asperger's versus autism thing because that for me is just unhelpful. Instead of looking at what causes autism, which we already know, that it's genetics, it's two people, but we also know, or at least we, we understand that it is supposed to happen and that it's evolutionary and not everyone's gonna want to understand that. Not everyone's going to want to accept that because they might have a severely impaired high support needs child. They're like, how is this supposed to happen? That isn't supposed to happen. So if, if something's happened that made that kid like that and you want to research that exact thing of. Okay, so why are some autistic people able to run a podcast and some autistic people can't go to the toilet by themselves? If you want to research that, at least make it obvious that that's what you're researching. Don't just say autism, say hi, support needs, can't live by themselves, literally can't.
- [20:38]
E
Cope so much nuance to it. It's so.
- [20:41]
F
But the fact is, is that we know the things that, that, that cause that aren't. Because we don't know why that is. I mean, I, I have my hypothesis of the fact that it's an abundance of the reduction of synaptic pruning. So they, they have, they have just two many synaptic pathways, which, by the way, that's actually been proven. But that's my thing, is that I link the two to the more reduction that you have so that the less synaptic pruning you go through, the more impaired you could be. But that is a hypothesis and that is far, far from a fact.
- [21:18]
E
More research is needed.
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F
More research is needed. I would love to be added to that, to be funded, to look at that. Because if it's a possibility that we could create a drug like methylphenidate, helps us by activating certain parts of our brain and changing them, there's possible that maybe there's a drug that could be invented that might help those kids have slightly more synaptic pruning. Again, that's. First of all, we've got to figure out that. And then we can look at that, and then we can look at blah, blah, blah.
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E
We've got to move on from the causes. We've got to move on.
- [21:55]
F
We already know why. So how about we look at helping the ones that are. So instead of spending money on causes, on blaming, on calculating. And like this article, there's risks because even when they get it right, like that article says, genetics, even when they get it right, they're getting it so wrong because they're saying it's a problem, it's a bad thing, this shouldn't happen.
- [22:29]
E
What are the risks, who's to blame? All these sorts of words.
- [22:32]
F
Yeah, it's blame, risk. It's so derogatory and so untrue. Because honestly, if autism is a risk, that means innovation, exploration, art, science, invention, all the things that neurodivergent people, the neurodivergent mind the autistic, adhd, dyslexic discalculators, all of us throughout history have contributed to the world around us. Why? Why? Why is that so easily forgotten? Just so they can go, oh, it's a terrible thing.
- [23:16]
E
There's so much discredit, isn't there?
- [23:18]
F
Still to this day, like, we're out here, we're trying our best to stop all this negativity. And if you're going to talk about the negatives, talk about the negatives that actually exist. Talk about the reality of negatives, not just blanket autism bad. You can't do that because it's not like that. Autism is different for every single autistic person. It's a completely unique experience. So if it's unique to every single one of us and we accept that every autistic person is different and every autistic person acts differently or struggles differently or has different abilities or inabilities, completely different from the other, that's something that we absolutely accept. Now, why are we accepting a blanket term of autism equals bad? Therefore, don't do the things that might cause it, like exist. It's just, it's so asinine. It blows my mind. But just quickly. My thing more than anything is that if you're gonna spend money, spend money on researching how to help the autistic people that exist and stop spending money on trying to stop autistic people existing. That might be a great start.
- [24:41]
E
May it come sooner rather than later, my friend. This is a battle I was not aware that I would be entering when learning that I was a neurodivergent person. And, you know, I really back up what you say there. I really wish that people would put the amount of time and effort into improving our lives and to help us thrive than just to make sure that there's not any more of us. It really is a frightening time out there. So off the back of this episode, everybody, be careful what you read out there. Don't take everything for granted. Do your research really dig into these articles because there is so much hyperbole out there that is just trying to get you to click, click, click. And we are deep data gatherers. That's who we are as a people. Just make sure that the data you're gathering is actually data and not just opinion pieces and just something that somebody's got for you to click on the article so that they can get revenue for ads, because that is 90 of what is out there. So thank you very much for tuning in. This has been your hot topic this week. We will be back with another one with another episode rocking up on Thursday. As always, everybody be careful what you read out there. Be kind to yourself, be safe. Night you buy.
- [25:54]
G
Thanks for tuning in to the neurodivergent Experience. We hope today's episode sparks something for you. Whether it's a new idea, a bit of validation, or just a moment of connection. Remember, new episodes are every week, so be sure to join us for the next one for more conversations and insights into the neurodivergent experience.
- [26:14]
E
If you've enjoyed this podcast, help us grow.
- [26:17]
G
You can do that by rating and reviewing this show. Your support makes a huge difference in helping us reach more people who could benefit from these conversations. You can connect with us on social media, find us on Instagram, Facebook, Tick tock. Just search for the neurodivergent Experience. Thank you again for listening and until next time, take care of yourself. You're not alone in this journey.
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D
Knock knock.
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A
Ooh, who's there?
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B
A Boost Mobile expert here to deliver and set up your all new iPhone 17 Pro, designed to be the most powerful iPhone ever.
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A
You called that a knock knock joke?
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B
This isn't a joke. Boost Mobile really sends experts to deliver and set up your phone at home or work.
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F
Okay.
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A
It's just that when people say knock knock, there's usually a joke to go with it.
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B
Like I said, this isn't a joke.
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A
So the knock knock was just you knocking?
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B
Yeah, that's how doors work.
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A
Get the new iPhone 17 Pro delivered and set up by an expert wherever you are. Delivery available for select devices purchased at boostmobile.com, terms apply. Dreaming of getting the all new iPhone 17 Pro, designed to be the most powerful iPhone ever.
- [27:26]
B
Then stay in bed and let a Boost Mobile expert deliver and set it up for you.
- [27:30]
A
Oh, actually, they will have to get up and open the door.
- [27:32]
B
Oh, right.
- [27:33]
A
Delivery available for select devices purchased@boostmobile.com terms apply.
- [27:38]
C
Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.
- [27:49]
D
Hey there. If you've ever felt your confidence slip at work, you're not alone. The good news? Confidence isn't a fixed trait. It's a skill. And like any skill, you can build it with the right tools and practice. I'm Anne Morris, CEO and bestselling author, and together with my wife, Frances Frey, a professor at Harvard Business School, we host the TED podcast Fixable. This season, we're zeroing in on confidence. What it really is, how to strengthen it, and how to help others see you as the leader you already are. So if you're ready to show up with more conviction, to get promoted, to lead with clarity, to do the best work of your career, join us on Fixable Wherever you get your podcasts.
- [28:33]
C
Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere.
- [28:39]
E
Acast.
- [28:40]
F
Com.