Hot Topic: Neurodivergent Halloween Special – Finding Comfort in the Dark

Summary

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The Neurodivergent Experience

Hot Topic: Neurodivergent Halloween Special – Finding Comfort in the Dark

Hosts: Jordan James (The Autistic Photographer) and Caris (filling in for Simon Scott)
Date: October 31, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this Halloween special, Jordan and Caris dive into the neurodivergent fascination with horror, fear, and the macabre—exploring why so many autistic and ADHD people are drawn to scary stories, creepy collectibles, and themes of darkness. The conversation traverses personal anecdotes, special interests, and how horror offers both a rush of sensation and a unique sense of comfort or release for those who often feel like outsiders. Jordan also shares his deep connection to Stephen King’s It, breaking down why the Losers Club speaks to his neurodivergent experience.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Thrill of Fear: The Neurodivergent Allure of Horror

• Seasonal Context:
  • Jordan and Caris celebrate "spooky season" (00:32–01:22), sharing excitement over horror movies, haunted attractions, and the general October vibe.
• Dopamine and Sensation-Seeking:
  • Both hosts explore how scary media provides a dopamine hit, satisfying a craving for intense emotions, pattern-matching, and curiosity.

    "There's something about that sort of like dopamine rush. Like, I actually feel like so alive, like when I'm watching horror films... even though it's not comfortable always, the rush that I get from it afterwards, I just really enjoy it."
    —Caris [03:49]

• Special Interest in the Macabre:
  • Caris describes being both fascinated and repulsed by horror icons and collectibles, recounting early experiences with scary toys and comics [04:30–05:41].
  • Jordan counters that if society wasn’t fascinated by horror, it wouldn’t be such a popular genre—hence, the enduring appeal of Stephen King [05:36–06:00].

2. Safe Scares Versus Real Fear

• In-Control Fear as Comfort:
  • Jordan points out the difference between real-life terror and the "safe fear" of horror media or haunted attractions [06:00–08:06].

    "I've experienced real fear... and I've experienced death in real life. So when I see it in a safe environment where it's not real... I really enjoy it."
    —Jordan [06:00]

• The Social and Sensory Aspects of Horror:
  • The hosts recount experiences in scare mazes, Halloween haunts, and horror-themed makeup as positive and community-building—even for those being "peeled off the roof" by jump scares [06:48–07:44].

3. The Ethics of True Crime & The Serial Killer Special Interest

• The Guilty Intrigue:
  • Both discuss the complicated neurodivergent relationship with true crime, serial killers, and dark documentaries.

    "I always feel guilty every time I watch something about serial killers or I'm fascinated... the person actually killed people. Real people."
    —Jordan [08:44–10:44]

  • Caris riffs on being able to identify infamous killers from documentaries alone, driven by a need for information and deep research [10:59–12:03].

4. Collectibles, Haunted Decor, and the Everyday Macabre

• Bringing Horror Home:
  • Both hosts (and their friends) collect creepy figures and decor year-round—not just at Halloween (Chucky, Pennywise, nuns from horror films, etc.), finding beauty and comfort in these dark aesthetics [12:22–16:44].

    "I want to cuddle them. I don't know what. I find them so cool. Like, to me, that's the coolest thing."
    —Jordan [14:45]

5. Horror Books, Games, and Unique Fears

• Books as a Gateway and Refuge:
  • Jordan shares that after being introduced to James Herbert, horror novels became as important as films—leading to a lifelong love of Stephen King [16:44–18:03].
• Horror Games Are a Different Beast:
  • The only time Jordan feels genuine fear is playing VR horror games, describing the unique terror of immersive, interactive scares [18:03–19:51].

    "Horror VR games are like that fear that everyone else was feeling at the haunt... and that does not happen. I took the VR helmet off. I was like, what the was that?"
    —Jordan [19:36]

6. It by Stephen King: Neurodivergent Resonance

• A Deep Dive (24:51–43:26):
  • Jordan describes It as his ultimate special interest outside of Lord of the Rings, outlining the intense personal and neurodivergent relevance of the story, especially its focus on friendship among outsiders.
  • He outlines why each member of the Losers Club resonates for those with autistic/ADHD traits:
    • Bill: The leader with a stutter—mirroring Jordan’s own childhood speech difficulties.

      "Not being able to speak... I was a loud kid stuck in a buttery kid's body." —Jordan [34:45]

    • Ben: The lonely, bookish kid who finds acceptance.
    • Richie: The irrepressible loudmouth, portrayed as textbook ADHD, beloved for who he is (even when annoying).
    • Eddie: The anxious, overprotected germaphobe, dealing with trauma and parental abuse.
    • Stanley: The underestimated, quiet, deeply observant child.
    • Mike: Black and marginalized, yet instantly accepted once in the group.
    • Beverly: Outwardly tough, inwardly traumatized, representing the struggles of high-masking ND women.
  • Jordan draws parallels to the neurodivergent experience:

    "So many neurodivergent people are never reaching their full potential because we're so ostracized. And these kids coming together, this losers club, just made me feel like me and you and my other friends, how we come together and we're just better for it."
    —Jordan [42:37]

  • Caris sums up the enduring appeal:

    "It's the hope. It's the hero overcoming terrible odds. Sometimes they don't, and that's what's tragic. But for so many people in our community... it's the humanity in it that draws them in."
    —Caris [43:26]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Horror as a "Safe" Release:

  "It's that adrenaline rush. That understanding that you're safe, it's not real. I think that's why people like to be scared—it's safe scared."
  —Jordan [07:44]

• On Special Interests and Deep Dives:

  "I find up films really interesting... things that have, like, really dark twists or unexpected things. I really love being surprised and scared, I get a buzz off of it."
  —Caris [11:42]

• On Accepting Community:

  "We're all so different. But we all have one thing in common, which is the way that we're treated."
  —Caris [42:54]

• On Halloween Turning to Christmas Too Soon:

  "I literally walked into the range... The entire [Halloween] section had been depleted to one shelf and everything was 50 off. And I'm like, it's Monday. Halloween is Friday."
  —Jordan [44:50]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Introduction & Halloween Context: 00:32–01:22
• Why Neurodivergent Folks Love Horror: 03:49–06:00
• Haunts and Safe Scares: 06:48–08:06
• Serial Killer Fascination & Guilt: 08:44–10:44
• Collectibles and Home Decor: 12:22–16:44
• Horror Books & Games: 16:44–19:51
• Stage Shows and Horror Experience: 20:07–21:33
• It Special Interest & Character Analysis: 24:51–43:26
• Community, Acceptance, and Humanities in Horror: 42:37–43:26
• Halloween vs. Christmas Decor Rant: 44:42–45:19
• Show Wrap & Community Questions: 43:26–47:09

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Episode Tone

• Warm, playful, unapologetically nerdy.
• Conversational, supportive, full of personal anecdotes and neurodivergent validation.
• A mixture of humor, dark fascination, and real emotions.

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Takeaway

This episode offers comfort and camaraderie for neurodivergent listeners who find solace—or delight—in the dark. Horror, the macabre, and fear serve as “safe scares,” dopamine fixes, and metaphors for the outsider experience. It—and horror as a genre—becomes a powerful narrative of acceptance, survival, and transformation.

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Connect with the hosts and the wider community:

• Instagram: @theneurodivergentexperiencepod
• Facebook: The Neurodivergent Experience
• YouTube: @TheNeurodivergentExperience

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Transcript

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[Jordan]

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[Jordan]

Oh, hot. Hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot. Hello and welcome to the Hot Topic Neuro Spicy news.

[Caris]

Ooh, and the crypto creeks and the moon north.

[Jordan]

And the hot topic is. It's Halloween. Yeah.

[Caris]

Insert sound effects here later in the edit. That'll be fun.

[Jordan]

Yeah, that would be good.

[Caris]

Yeah, we'll pop there. So spooky. Spooky season.

[Jordan]

It is spooky season. October is awesome.

[Caris]

I've.

[Jordan]

I've been watching just horror movie after horror movie after horror after, after.

[Caris]

I know what you mean.

[Jordan]

Yeah. And horror series is welcome to Derry started as well. So I've watched the first episode of that.

[Caris]

I need to watch that.

[Jordan]

And it's. It's horrific and awesome and. Oh my God. And I don't get bothered by horror, which is what. We're gonna talk about this. But when, when I watched it, I'm still thinking about that episode. And that is the sign of a great.

[Caris]

Must have been a good one.

[Jordan]

Is that I'm still going. That is so messed up. And I'm. I'm. I'm so used to like really, really messed up horror. But even I was like, whoa. Like it's. It keeps replaying in my head. Like there's certain movies that would. Or TV shows that are really good because after the show it still messes with your head.

[Caris]

Oh yeah. Yeah. They're the best ones. The ones that stay with you, bro. They're the best ones.

[Jordan]

Yeah. So it's. It's kind of weird because like. I'll tell you a quick story. Quick story. When. When I watched the Blair Witch Project when I was a kid. When I was a kid, I was old enough to watch it. I didn't sneak in. I just felt like a kid on my way home, the bus stopped to my house. I lived in the middle of the country, in the middle of nowhere. The bus stop was at the end of this, like on this main road. And then I had to walk down a pitch black little country road to get to my house. So I've just watched the Blair Witch Project. Didn't really get scared. It's not a scary movie. It's just interestingly messed up. But I've, I, I was terrified walking down that road. I've never run so fast.

[Caris]

That's how you know you've watched a good, you watch something good.

[Jordan]

Literally. Yeah, literally. I was like, it's, it's that, that is a good film because it gets you later and makes you go, oh, that's. I don't want to go in the woods in the dark.

[Caris]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

But I do want to go in the woods alone with just a torch in the dark. I do want to do that. I love the macabre. I love being scared. I love being spooked out. And that's, that's definitely like some sort of dopamine fix, isn't it?

[Caris]

Oh, yeah. It's got to be like, I am such a jumper. Like, I get scared everything. Like, I will watch films behind my fingers. I like, put my hood up and be like, like, Kenny, I. But there's something about that sort of like dopamine rush. Like, I actually feel like so alive, like when I'm watching horror films, like, and it just really sort of takes me into a bit of another world where I just sort of like live on my nerves for a bit. And even though it's not like, comfortable always the rush that I kind of get from it afterwards, I'm a bit like, oh, like, I just really enjoy sort of the whole, like, environment. I love, like the worlds that sort of are in horror films as well or just like, you know, macabre, like sci fi and things like that. And I've always been really drawn to it. Dude, I don't know about you, but, like, whenever I used to go to like comic book shops or like movie shops, it was always the covers or the toys or the comics of scary shit that always used to draw my eye. Even though I was like, scared of it. I always used to really like looking at like the Xenomorph dolls or like the Predator ones. And I used to like, be quite scared of like, Terminator as well. When I first saw Terminator, I was like, who's a Terminator? And there's something about it where I just get really drawn in. I'm like, so interested. Like that sort of like pattern matching data gathering kicks in and I just want to know loads about these films or this media and it can become a special interest even though I'm not getting a Joy from it. I'm scared, you know, Like, I find I just get drawn into it being scared.

[Jordan]

If, if it wasn't such a draw, horror films wouldn't exist. Horror books wouldn't exist.

[Caris]

Right.

[Jordan]

They wouldn't be so popular. Stephen King wouldn't be one of the best selling authors on the planet. Probably the most amount of movies made from any author's work. Correct me if I'm wrong on that. I didn't check that.

[Caris]

Crazy how much of his stuff has been turned. Like is all the media.

[Jordan]

Every five minutes I'm like, oh, it's another Stephen King thing. And it's not all good. Um, but a lot of it is good. And I, I think for me, I've experienced real fear, like fear from my life, actual fear because of people. And I've experienced death in real life. So when I see it in a safe environment where it's not real because it's a movie or it's a book or it's a. Like last night Sylvia and I went to Shocktober at Tully's farm. It's like a fright night. Very, very popular. And it's a lot of Halloween haunts. So you. It's like different themes. Like a clown one.

[Caris]

Scare mazes and stuff.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's like a witch's one and it's. It was so many. It was like 12 different. Like the haunted hay ride and has all the actors and, and they jump out from everywhere. That, that doesn't scare me. But I really enjoy it. I really enjoy the aesthetics, I enjoy the character acting, I enjoy the makeup. Sylvia and I both had had makeup. You know, Sylvia's looked amazing. Mine looked like I had done it myself, because I had. But everyone was complimenting us on, on our makeup and costumes and stuff, which was really, really nice. But it, it was a really fun time and, and everyone there is having a great time. Even the people that are screaming and genuinely terrified. I've seen still some people absolutely brick themselves.

[Caris]

Oh yeah, I would have been one of those. You would have peeled me off the roof in some of them rooms, genuinely.

[Jordan]

But they're loving it. It's that adrenaline rush. But that, that understanding that you're safe, it's not, it's not real. And I think that that's why people like to be scared, because it's, it's safe scared. You're like, it's, it's not, it's not at genuine fear.

[Caris]

It's like bungee jumping, isn't it? You're jumping off the building. You're getting the fear of falling, but there's a safety net.

[Jordan]

Well, I'd actually be more worried about bungee jumping, but you know what I mean?

[Caris]

I'm using the map. Yeah. I'm using the metaphor. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Jordan]

I'd still be more scared of bungee jumping. I'm like. But I don't know who. Who fixed this. I don't know who did this.

[Caris]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

But, yeah, I just. I do. I think it's. It's. It's that fascination with something that's so messed up as well, because obviously the idea of, like, a serial killer.

[Caris]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Like real life. I mean, I remember getting to serial killers as a special interest, and I always feel guilty every time I, like, watch something about serial killers or I'm fascinated, or I'm like, oh, I really love this program about the serial killer. I really love this book about the serial killer. Quick side note, the second book I ever wrote, which I will never publish and no one will ever read it except for me and my family, is about me as a serial killer that goes around killing bad people.

[Caris]

Like Punisher style.

[Jordan]

Punisher style.

[Caris]

Exactly like that.

[Jordan]

But. But, like, without all the guns and stuff. Because I'm English, because I'm British and stuff. We. We use. We use British things like a hammer to the head or a blunderbuss. Yes, that would be a gun.

[Caris]

Okay. Stand still while I load the. Load the pipe.

[Jordan]

Yeah, but, yeah, it's a very, very dark, dark book. And, yeah, I remember someone. One of my friends read it and they went, don't ever release this. You might be looked at by the police. And I'm like, if Stephen King isn't looked at, I'll be fine. But there is this obsession. But I feel really guilty because then I'm like, right. But that person actually killed people. Like real people.

[Caris]

The people that he did it, they did it to as well. Yeah.

[Jordan]

And. And then I kind of feel guilty that I'm fascinated by the serial killer, where I should be giving a lot more thought and a lot more attention to the victims because they're the people that should be remembered, but they never are because we are so fascinated. The human can. Can do the most horrific things.

[Caris]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

And I think. I think there is. There's always going to be a fascination with that, and I think that that's what overall, just horror in general is the fascination of just, like, what is the worst thing that my brain can deal with.

[Caris]

That's why I love the Mindhunter series. So much because it really delves into who and why are these horrible people doing this. And I've had weird looks before where somebody was like, oh, what do you know about serial killers? And I was like a disgusting, frightening amount, if I'm honest. Like, I was literally watching a trailer for something the other day and I was like, that's the Son of Sam, that's gb, that's, you know, bdk, that's John Wayne Gacy. And I was like naming all of these people and somebody was like, why'd you know about all this? And I was like, honestly, I don't really know. I've kind of watched some films, I've watched some documentaries. And then I've just done the thing that most of us do, which is just deep dive research. And I listen to like some podcast series as well that I always find. I find up people really interesting and I find up films really interesting. Like things that have like really dark twists or like unexpected things. I really love being surprised and scared. Like I get a, I get a buzz off of it. I really do.

[Jordan]

Yeah, Sylvia gets like, with like jump scares and things like that. She like in especially ghost movies. We really like supernatural ghost movies. Yeah, they're our favorite. And things like the Conjuring and Insidious first Conjuring films.

[Caris]

So good.

[Jordan]

There's this. So these films are so, so good. But I'm, I'm weird. I'm like, I would own the Annabelle doll. Like, if someone was like, oh, that's the Annabelle doll. I'd be like, but I don't think that's too weird.

[Caris]

I've got a lot of.

[Jordan]

Give me that. I don't believe. I, I know for. And, and people are, we go, oh, he's so close minded. I'm, I'm not, I'm very, very open minded.

[Caris]

That's, that's just the conclusion you've come to.

[Jordan]

That's why I don't believe in these things is because people kept telling me they were true. But because I was open minded, I didn't listen to people. And then I made up my own mind. That's what open minded is being is coming to your own conclusion rather than just saying, oh, I just believe things because people tell me them, which is why I'm an atheist. And if, if somebody said this is the Annabelle doll and this is the doll that did all this thing, I'd be like, yeah, whatever, mate that is. That's a dollar. But it's a cool thing to own. So I would absolutely. And it's It's. It's a Raggedy Ann doll. It doesn't look anything like the one in the movie. Movie. I absolutely love the way she looks like, I want that doll. Like, but Sylvia won't let me have it because she. She gets too freaked out by it because I've got a Chucky doll and she doesn't like that, so. And I've got a Pennywise doll and that's sitting next to my bed. And she puts up with that because of my. Which we'll get onto in the second half. My crazy obsession with the movie and the book, it. But the. The idea of just looking at these things, I. I want to cuddle them. I don't know what. I find them so cool. Like, to me, that's the coolest thing. The nun in those movies. I'm just. I want to look at her face all day long. I want to look at that face. It's just. It's so cool. I loved it. I like last night when we went to the haunts, they. They had a. Like a haunt called Purgatory, and it had loads and loads of nuns in, like, coming out and jumping out at you, and they just. And you walking around with this lantern that changes color and it keeps blinking and going off and going on again. It's so atmospheric. It was so well done. And suddenly the lamp comes on and there's just like a nun standing in front of you.

[Caris]

Oh, no. A little bit of wee would have come out if that were me, genuinely.

[Jordan]

And just looking and just because they're real people and the actors just looking. And I just went straight up to the actor and started looking at her face and makeup, and I was like, wow, that's awesome.

[Caris]

You probably freaked her out more than the other way around.

[Jordan]

Maybe. I was like, can I take you home with me? Hello, Mama Sylv.

[Caris]

She's like, yeah, that would have been me.

[Jordan]

One time. She literally went, oh, off.

[Caris]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, that would have been me. I. I'm like a proper swearer. But in saying that, though, like, I'm an alternative kid, like Caris, and I joke that we live in an haunted house because we have loads of little ghosts just dotted around the house. Like, we have, like, light up ones, porcelain ones, big ones, little ones. We've got little pumpkins, and we have these all year round. We're not like a. Like, we have Halloween in the house kind of all year. But I know loads of people that are into, like, really macabre stuff. Like, I've got a Friend who's really into art. The clown, you know, terrifier.

[Jordan]

Oh, dude, I've just got into terrifying.

[Caris]

Yeah, yeah, I told you. But they've got like loads of terrifier stuff in their house. I've got a friend who's got like the Freddy Krueger hand in like a glass hot thing. Like, a lot of my friends all really love horror and like, we'll go and watch films. I remember we all went to watch Nosferatu together and we were just like. It was weird. It was just like sexy time. This is the first night, like, that was. But I just like sort of like performances. I like Robert Eggers movies as well. But even like going back to when I was like 16, 17, I used to read Darren Shan, who was like a horror writer who wrote a seize. A series on demons, and he did another one on vampires, which I loved. And then I started getting into like, all the sort of like, dark comics and books and. But then I've never really read any Stephen King stuff. I've read the Mist, but I've never read it, which we'll talk about after a little break, which is just coming up.

[Jordan]

The first horror book that I read and I do. I wish they'd make a movie out of this, I really, really do, is it's a book called Ghost of Sleuth. Okay. By James Herbert. He was like the English Stephen King, so. And he actually lived like 20 minutes away from me. And I only found that out after he passed away. And I was like, fuck, fuck, fuck. I was like, oh, man. But yeah, it's like, honestly, if you're into. If anyone out there's into Stephen King, read James Herbert, because James Herbert's books are really good. In fact, I don't know a bad James Herbert book. I mean, I'm sure everyone's got their own opinions and there aren't. There were some that are not as good. But yeah, just James Herbert was. Was so good. And. And that actually got me into Stephen King because I. I wasn't into reading horror because I loved horror movies and I loved horror games. Now, horror games, that's the only time I actually get scared. Ever.

[Caris]

Oh, yeah.

[Jordan]

Like just ever. And horror. Yeah, horror VR games are like that fear that everyone else was feeling at the haunt or people when they're watching and they jump and they scream and all this stuff that Sylvia does and Sophie does and I. And I just. I can't do it. I want to activate that part of me, but it just won't work because I Want to feel that. So when I'm playing a horror game, especially in VR, and I'm walking around and there's. Oh, God, what was it? A paranormal. So, you know, the. The paranormal films, they. They made a game of it. Oh, the game itself. It's all right. It's those films. Really scary.

[Caris]

When they first came out, they really scared me. I don't know why.

[Jordan]

I just. Yeah, I just went. Because I even think they're based on real events and I'm like, that's not real though, is it? That's. That's not based on a real idea.

[Caris]

I wrote down on a napkin on.

[Jordan]

A lot of it.

[Caris]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

Based on people really making up stuff, but whatever. Like, that doesn't really matter to me. As long as it's good, I will enjoy it. This. You're just walking around this. This house and you, you know, it's like a puzzle game. And you have to figure out this key opens that door and how do you get through that loft? And. And I'm just. I'm just rumbling through this drawer and then I turn around and then there's just like this freaky witch ghost just goes ah, right in my face. And this is VR.

[Caris]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

And I've seen my headphones on it me up so much and I had to take it off. And that does not happen. I took the VR helmet. I was like, what the was that?

[Caris]

Yeah, this is why I don't play these games. Like, I got through about five minutes of alien isolation before we. And myself, like, it was scary.

[Jordan]

Dude, I love that.

[Caris]

Such a scary game.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah. Horror games.

[Caris]

But you know what is fun? Just before we go to the break, you know, the. One of the best experiences I've ever had for horror ever. Genuinely ever. I went to see the play Ghost Stories. You ever seen this or heard of this?

[Jordan]

I've heard of it.

[Caris]

Yeah. It's written by Jeremy Dyson and Andy Neiman. You may recognize Jeremy Dyson because he's one of the writers on League of Gentlemen.

[Jordan]

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah.

[Caris]

Holy. Dude. Like, seeing a horror show, like, on a stage. They've turned it into a film now, but being in, like, the room with it. Oh, dude. Like, I literally, me and my friends were watching it and we were like, proper like. You know when you see those, like, footage of movies where it's like, this movie is so scary and it shows, like, the people in the audience that's like, feet up, like, screaming at the screen, that's the exact sort of reaction that all me and my friends had when we went to see it. And it's, it's an experience. I'll not spoil it for anybody because the endings. But yeah, it's, it's a, you know, being in those sorts of environments, like hair on the back of your neck. This is why I've never done the VR things, because I'd just end up punching up a light bunch of wall being like, get off me.

[Jordan]

Where am I? I can only imagine because like I said, I'm like. I feel like I'm dead inside when it comes to horror and being scared. So if I get scared of horror, imagine someone who's genuinely jumpy or just like watching a movie absolutely themselves. But yeah, no, let's, let's have a break and, and then we can talk about the greatest horror movie ever made when we come back.

[Caris]

I'll be back.

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[Jordan]

Can I make my sight softer? Can I make my sight firmer? Can we sleep cooler?

[Sleep Number Advertiser]

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[Caris]

This is a neurodivergent experience. Public Announcement if you live in England and you or a loved one is waiting for an autism or ADHD assessment, you don't have to wait years. RTN Diagnostics is now part of the NHS Right to Choose scheme, which means if your local wait for a consultant led autism or ADHD assessment is more than 18 weeks, you can choose RTN instead and it won't cost you a penny. Jordan chose RTN for his own family because their care and attention to detail were second to none. They didn't just diagnose autism and ADHD they looked at the full picture including pda, ocd, anxiety and more. The team is friendly, neuroaffirming and comprises many neurodivergent individuals. So they truly understand getting started is simple. Download the GP referral letter and questionnaire from the link in our show notes. Take those to your GP and ask for a referral to RTN diagnostics. If approved, RTN will be in touch within eight weeks to begin your assessment. Remember, this only applies in England and some exclusions do apply. RTN is not currently able to accept referrals for child ADHD assessments, so check the details before you start RTN diagnostics helping you get the answers you deserve without the weight. Spooky.

[Jordan]

Sorry everyone.

[Caris]

Yeah, we've been talking about all the things macabre and why so many of our people just seem to be obsessed with getting scared. Even though like being going outside scary enough, why not watch a horror movie?

[Jordan]

Yeah, the world is scary. Horror movies like meh.

[Caris]

Yeah. So we've sort of talked about like things that we've. We've liked and watched. I like Alien and things like that. But you're. One of your special interests is horror related, which I can't really say one of mine is. But you. You love Stephen King's it, don't you, dude?

[Jordan]

After Lord of the Rings and everybody knows my obsession with Lord of the Rings, I've literally got a Balrog tattoo on my arm and I've got Lord of the Rings. I'm going to Hobbiton for a second time ever next year. I've already booked Breakfast Tour. I'm obsessed after Lord of the Rings it. Stephen King's it is my favorite book of all time and it is one of my favorite movies of all time. And it's, it's. There's just so much about it that I relate to just as a person, but especially as a neurodivergent person, that it supersedes the horror element that interested me in the book and the movie in the first place. It's the story of the kids. It's the world building. A lot of people will say, and I've heard this so many times, that Stephen King tends to drag on a bit. Like, it's almost like, get on with it, dude. You know, there's, there's definitely an argument. You could say, well, if I was going to read it, I would like the abridged version of it rather than the unabridged version. But I'm listening to it because I, I can't do books nowadays. But I've, I've read it twice and I'm listening to it for a third time because it's horror season and obviously with the new TV show come out as well, I thought, yeah, I'm just gonna listen to it again. And it's so good because it has so much backstory for each character. And I think that that's where a lot of horror movies fail. For me. It was where a lot of movies, especially action movies fail for me is there's not enough character building or there's too much character building that you just get on with it and then there's not enough where you just like, I don't really care about that person. So. Oh dear. They died. This. I don't feel any emotion. Yeah. Oh, oh, no. Steve got his head shot.

[Caris]

Has to check IMDb Steve again.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Caris]

You're like, the actor got killed. I always do that. I'm like, oh, Alan Tudy got killed again. Like, who's he playing?

[Jordan]

But with, with the kids in the losers club, there's, there's so much about them that is relatable to me. It, it, that's why it became a special interest and, and one of my favorite things in the world. But I'm, I'm also obsessed with Pennywise as a character. So I have. And I think most people would have this like a list of like your, your favorite villains. So it's like, well, like, who's your favorite villain? Who, mine, like from, from all pop culture. Who's your favorite villain?

[Caris]

Probably have to say Darth Vader.

[Jordan]

I see. I knew you were gonna say Darth Vader even before you. I just knew it because Darth Vader is badass. Let's be honest. I mean, he blows up planets.

[Caris]

There's not very tragic character as well. And like. But his backstory is what makes him so complex.

[Jordan]

Exactly. Yeah. Now for me, it. He's my third. And then the Joker. Yeah, because of the same reason. It's like what made him the Joker like that. That's what always fascinates me about these things. Like we said, like, why is someone like that? What made them like that? But the thing about Pennywise about it is that they're an alien whose only purpose is to kill and feed and then hibernate and then pop out 26, depending on if you the book or the movie 27 years later and kill and feed and then go back into hibernation. They're an animal visited, you know, crash landed from another planet. They're an alien, which a lot of people don't think, understand this is that. It is the deadlights. It's those three floating orbs. That's what it is in its true form. How the kids see it, how the victims see it, is completely based on what they're scared of and their genuine fear. Now, the idea of this came from Stephen King, his fascination with John Wayne Gacy, who didn't dress up as a clown and kill people. As far as I know, he killed people, but he also dressed up as a clown.

[Caris]

He snuck into society and let people let him into their homes because he was a children's entertainer dressed as a clown.

[Jordan]

Yeah, it was a. It's all a facade. And that's what Pennywise is, is. Pennywise is the facade. It's the lure, the bait of, oh, look at this clown. And then this clown can manifest and form itself in different ways. So one of the kids will see it as a werewolf because they're scared, particularly werewolves. And other kids sees it as like a Frankenstein's monster because that's what they're scared of. Another kid sees it as a clown because that's what they're scared of. And it's just. It's this. It's fear of. Of the individual. And it's like, how can I make the. This person the most scared? That's when it can feed, like, say.

[Caris]

It'S like, you know, tenderizing the meat almost as well.

[Jordan]

Exactly, which is why most of the time it will kill children, because children are the easiest to scare. But the other amazing thing is that it has this power over the whole of Derry where people will just, like, forget everything happened. Like. Like these kids will die. Throughout the history of Derry, people keep dying, going missing, but everyone's just like, oh, yeah, well, we looked for them and it was probably just some hobo or it was a pervert, but he's moved on now. And it's. It's just like the whole town is controlled by. Because the town was built on top of this creature who then just feeds off the residents of this town. And it's. It's. I mean, one, what a great idea. What a great idea from the King of Horror. And two, that kind of feels like that's what society is. So you've got rich people, powerful people. They feed off us. They feed off society. We will do all the work for them. We will do everything we can. And they are the ones that get all the benefits, all the money, all the billionaires and multi. Multi millionaires that use people.

[Caris]

And then we forget what they do.

[Jordan]

And then we blame each other and no one's looking in their direction because we're so busy fighting each other. And like, Stephen King understood this, like, all this time ago, that it's a. It's like the whole thing about, well.

[Caris]

John Wayne Gacy ran to be a political figure as well.

[Jordan]

It wouldn't surprise. I mean, we already know some political figures are definitely criminals and most likely pedophiles. Release the Epstein files and. But then you've got this ragtag group of kids that have all their own individual traits and problems. But when they band together, the losers, the ostracized, the bullied, like, it's the whole thing about is that they're bullied. And them being able to overcome their bullies is what then strengthens their bond, which means that once their bond is strengthened, that's how they're able to then defeat Pennywise. Because all the kids that he will go after, it's individual, it's picking them off, but when they're grouped together, they, they're strong and they're stronger than him because they don't have the fear because they're together. And that really, really spoke to me, especially as a lonely person and being that still living with that lonely kid inside me, I just really, really connected with these characters. Now, if, if you, if you're patient with me, audience, I'm just gonna go through the, the kids and the individual traits and how they actually, really, really speak to me. And maybe they speak to you. So Bill Denbrough, he's the guy that's in charge. He's the one that everyone looks to that I can definitely relate to within my life. Everyone's always thought, yeah, okay, let's. Let's see what Joe's going to do. But also, horrifically bullied, his brother dies, which I can relate to. His parents are very distant, but he also has a really bad stutter. He has a really bad stutter. And I had a really bad stutter when I was a kid. And just listening to that stutter, that makes me feel freaking weird. It just brings back so many memories.

[Caris]

Very lived in, isn't it?

[Jordan]

Oh, dude, stuttering is. One day I'll probably talk about this, but stuttering is probably one of the worst things I ever lived through, because not being able to speak, not being able to start a sentence, which is how I would start. I would start on the first word. I would just not talk, like, like, so l would become non speaking. Everyone said I was a quiet kid. It's like I Wasn't quite. I was a loud kid stuck in a buttery kid's body. Ben Hanscom, the chubby, forgotten about, underestimated loner. So he's completely lonely at the beginning. He has no friends whatsoever, but he doesn't understand how that's not a problem because he has his books and he has education and he has his own interests. So he's completely fine with just being by himself and just getting on with his life and that. I, I really relate to that. Yeah. Like, I so often thought, well, I don't even need friends. And then when he actually meets the other kids and realizes, oh, wait a minute, not everyone's a bully. Not everyone's mean. You know, there are some other nice people out there, it makes him the happiest he's ever been. And it's like he finds his people, which I can definitely relate to. Richie Tozier is the loudmouth one. This kid is just adhd. He's like. There's so many. Often times that Stephen King will literally describe him as being unable to not say something. Like, even if he's just. I'm not gonna say. I'm gonna.

[Caris]

He also has a lot of echolalia as well. Like in the film performance. Like, they really sell his, his sort of neurodivergent traits.

[Jordan]

Yeah. In the film he's a stamp comedian, but in the book, he's a radio host. And you can see, like, there's a big, big time difference in what the sort of careers are. But it works the same because it's all. They call him the Mouth because he's always doing voices. He's always trying to portray himself as somebody else because he's not happy being himself. Because he knows that himself is a very annoying, very bullied, very triggering person. But the wonderful thing is, is the rest of the losers club specially built him. They know he's annoying. They know he's really triggering. They, they. They can't stand some of the things he does, but they love him. And, and they accept him. And that, that, for me, when that, that, that chokes me up, man, I, I absolutely love that because I. After getting over my stutter, I was then Richie Cho, like, you couldn't shut me up.

[Caris]

Yeah. Once you started, you couldn't stop.

[Jordan]

Literally. Like, I was. Richie chose us. Trapped in a building, pro body.

[Caris]

I've been all three of these kids, though. I've never had a stutter, but I have, in moments, been all three of these kids.

[Jordan]

Exactly. Then you got Eddie. Eddie Kaspak is the is Bill's best friend. He's a little kid, and his mum is just Munchausen by proxy. Like, that's what she's doing to this poor kid. So he's got an aspirator. He doesn't need it. It's. He's like, people have said, you don't need this. It's. It's just a placebo. Or he says a gazebo because he doesn't understand what placebo is. A gazebo.

[Caris]

It's a gazebo.

[Jordan]

And I. I can relate to that. Having, like, this overbearing mother who was abusive but also tried to act like a hero all the time. Like, she was protecting me, because it's. It's definitely an abusive trait where you will abuse and then you will love. It's. I horrifically was told the. By somebody who said, it's okay to hit children that you love with one hand and discipline with the other, of which I said to them, if that's the case, I love you with this one, but if you do something wrong, is it okay if I freaking punch you with this one? And he's like, well, you can't punch adults. And I said, but you okay punching a child? Of which he walked off and just had to think about that.

[Caris]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jordan]

Pathetic. But that's what I would get as a kid. You know, I would get this loving, wonderful, overbearing, caring, seemingly caring mother who would say things like, oh, if. If all my kids were drowning, I'd save you first. And then I found out that she said that to every single one of her kids because she was just. She just needed love, needed attention, but then would just abuse us. Like, I'm not going into it, but in horrific ways. Physically, mentally, just being abused. And that's. That's what poor little Eddie has to go through to the point where he literally becomes, like, ocd. Like, everything bothers him. He needs to clean constantly. And, like, his biggest fear, what he ends up seeing is, like, a leper or what he thinks is a leper of, like, somebody with, like, some disease with their face falling off and stuff like that. It actually turns out that it's like a tramp with syphilis. And, like. And then Pennywise takes the form of this tramp with syphilis, but to, like, a horrific degree, to scare Eddie. Luckily, he survives. Then you got Stanley. Stanley's a bit of a conundrum because he's just a very, very quiet kid. He's just so, so quiet. So in the background, but he's so smart. And he's so underestimated and he's just a really, really clever guy that everybody realizes how clever he is. But he's always underestimated. And I've always, I've always understood that. Then quickly you got Mike Hanlon, who is the only black kid. Because this was set in the 50s, so it wasn't a lot of, you know, racial integration in the 50s. In the book. What I love about when Mike comes along is that like he's horrifically racially abused by all the same bullies. But again, they're all separate until they come together and they suddenly will become friends and they just accept him. Like it's not even a thing that he's black, that he's different. Like they, they just accept he's just a kid. Yeah, he's, he's just a kid. He's just being accepted. And it's, it's just, it's a, it's a really, really beautiful thing. And just to see that acceptance. And then of course, you've got Beverly Marsh. You know, she's the badass kick ass female character who is absolutely awesome. And she kind of brings the whole lot together because they're obsessed with her because she's really, really tough, but she's really, really weak. Like she has this tough outer shell and no one wants to mess with her. But at home she's horrifically abused, like horrifically abused to then when she's older, marries a man who is just like her father, horrifically abuses her. So she's just this woman that on the outside has so much going for her, is so smart, so beautiful, so kick ass, but she has no self worth. And that to me, that, that just is, that is so many high masking neurodivergent women are exactly like that. They have so much ability, but they, they don't believe in themselves and they accept mediocrity from others and how they're treated because they don't believe how or understand how great they are. And if you're a female out there who's listening to this and, and you're feeling like that, I guarantee you, you have so much more potential than people will ever give you credit for. And it, it just, it always upsets me to think that so many neurodivergent people are never reaching their full potential because we're so ostracized.

[Caris]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

And these kids coming together, this losers club, it just made me feel like me and you and me and my other friends, how we come together and we're just Better for it. We're better for being surrounded by the same people.

[Caris]

We're all so different. But we all have one thing in common which is the way that we're treated. Yeah.

[Jordan]

Which is exactly the same as these characters. So it's not just about the horror element and the fact that Pennywise is the coolest looking villain ever. And it just absolutely awesome. Just I'm getting a Pennywise tattoo. Like I'm obsessed. But it's the story behind the Losers club. The, the, the heroes of the story. It's, it's just so real. And yeah, thank you for listening if you made it that far.

[Caris]

Yeah, nice little info dump on a Friday afternoon for you if you're listening on that time. But this is one of the things that I love sort of about horror is it's the hope. It's the sort of the hero overcoming horrific terrible odds. Sometimes they don't always do. And that's what's tragic about it. And I think there's the sort of films that hit home more for me. But you're not alone in this, dude. I know so many people from our community that are into really dark minded media and, and really delve into it and love it, but they always say it's the humanity in it that draws them in. So I'm interested to know you've listened to this, you've listened to our sort of little Halloween horror dump. What sort of films do you like watching? You know, are you into scary stuff as much as we are? Are you like me? Are you a big scaredy cat peeled off the roof? Are you like Jordan just deadpan face? That's like, no, it's not that scary, mate. But yeah, I'm interested to know sort of, yeah, if it relaxes you, like, what do you get from it? Because I live in a permanent haunted house and it's not just because of the stuff spider webs I won't clean up. It's because of the, the items in it and the colors and, and everything like that. No. Thanks for today, dude. I really enjoyed this one nice little Halloween horror special. It's not very often that an episode dropped for us falls on a Friday when it's Halloween. So it was nice to do it.

[Jordan]

Perfect timing.

[Caris]

Perfect timing.

[Jordan]

So everyone's had a good October and looking forward to the XMA season that is now November and not December.

[Caris]

It did.

[Jordan]

I literally walked into the range yesterday thinking I'll just grab up a few more Halloween things just for a laugh. And the. The entire section had been depleted to one shelf and everything was 50 off. And I'm like, it's Monday. Halloween is Friday.

[Caris]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

But everywhere now there is just Christmas stuff.

[Caris]

Yeah.

[Jordan]

And you're just like, what. What happened? And then I'm like, oh, I really like those reindeer lights. I might grab them.

[Caris]

Oh, no, they. I had that in my Tesco. My local Tesco. We went the first weekend of September. There was no Halloween stuff out, but they'd already started putting the Christmas stuff out. And then Halloween sort of like followed, and we were both just stood there going, pretty sure this is the wrong way around. Yeah, I don't. I'm not gonna try and get. I like Christmas. I think.

[Jordan]

No, I'm doing. I'm doing the November. I listened to my followers on Facebook and they said, it will make me happy doing it. And then it did. So I'm. We're. We're.

[Caris]

We're gonna give it a try.

[Jordan]

We're gonna have. We're gonna have a long weekend of horror. So we'll. We'll carry on the Halloween theme. We're actually on fight on Friday. On today, we're actually all going to go and watch the new Shelby Oaks movie that came out.

[Caris]

Oh, yeah, the Chris Stuttman.

[Jordan]

Yeah. With Mike Flag. Mike Flanagan on board, which is really, really great. So we're all going there tonight as of you guys listening. And Sophie's back. So Sophie's been on her amazing adventure, taking amazing pictures of turtles and. Yeah. So I get to be. Get. I get the whole family. So we're all going together to watch it and we're going to just eat lots of. Lots of Halloween candy and just have a really, really cracking time. Because life is just about enjoying yourself as much as it is about everything else. So. And. And then from next week, we can start thinking about Christmas.

[Caris]

God, it's come quick, isn't it? My God. Anyway, thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you very much for listening. We will be back on Thursday with another main episode. Don't forget, Ashley will be doing a nice, tranquil little session for you on Mondays. And as always, on the Friday, we will be back with a hot, hot topic. Take care of yourself, everybody. Be kind, be safe, be spooky.

[Jordan]

See you then nightly.

[Caris]

Birds. Thanks for tuning in to the neurodivergent Experience. We hope today's episode sparks something for you, whether it's a new idea, a bit of validation, or just a moment of connection. Remember, new episodes are every week, so be sure to join us for the next one for more conversations and insights into the neurodivergent experience. If you've enjoyed this podcast, help us grow. You can do that by rating and reviewing this show. Your support makes a huge difference in helping us reach more people who could benefit from these conversations. You can connect with us on social media, find us on Instagram, Facebook, Tik tok. Just search for the neurodivergent experience. Thank you again for listening. And until next time, take care of yourself. You're not alone in this journey.

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