Jordan (2:42)

Yeah, well the reason as to why I bring this up, my friend, is this is a show that literally has neurodivergent characters in it. There's one character who's the best representation of autism I've seen in any cartoon. The humor is so spot on. It's echolalia driven. I absolutely love it. Both the creators are neurodivergent and they've suddenly gone, nope, we're not making anymore. We're super tired. We're burnt out. We're done. At the height of its popularity and it's blown up the Internet and I thought we should talk about it because burnout can kill your dreams. But it's also very healthy.

Sad (3:17)

Yeah, it's. It's surprising that instead of saying, oh, we're done, they. They could have been like, oh, we're going to take a break. So I, I would suspect there's more to it than the meets the eye, that maybe creative differences or maybe they're just fed up with it. Maybe they want to go in a different direction, start something new. I mean, they're obviously very, very talented at what they do. They've created something that is very, very good. And my dog has just randomly walked in on me. He's also very upset by it. He was a big fan.

Jordan (4:00)

As he should be.

Sad (4:01)

Yeah, as he should be.

Jordan (4:02)

It's.

Sad (4:02)

It's a great show. A great show that no one can watch in the UK at this moment in time, which is really, really frustrating.

Jordan (4:09)

Yeah.

Sad (4:10)

So they're ending it and everyone. The UK is like, what was that? I never heard of it.

Jordan (4:14)

Oh, yeah, it's. It's difficult. But let me read what they've put. So this is why they've said it's ending. It's. Michael, Cusack and Zach had all of the creators and they've said the decision to end the show after season three was their choice. And they openly announced it. In a very typical way for the show and the creators. They've put. I'm gonna cut right to the chase. This is not a bit. Not a joke. Michael and I are here to announce the Smiling Friends will end after season three is done. And Cusack added. To be perfectly honest, after we finished season three, Zach and I both just had the same feeling. We were burnt out after putting years and years into this and we feel pretty accomplished. Said from the beginning they wanted to put 110% into the show and go out on top, arguing it was better to leave viewers wanting more than to risk continuing half heartedly. They said we wouldn't want to be doing more seasons half hearted or burnt out or not feeling it. That's not fair to us. And it's not fair to the audience to give you guys fucking slop. That sucks. And they both described being burnt out and feeling creatively accomplished after completing the third season, and they don't believe that they could continue without compromising quality. So they've gone, we're done. This show, dude, is huge. It's Rick and Morty levels of huge. And they've gone, we're done. We're done.

Sad (5:30)

See, that's. That. That. That. To me, that. That's Tegrade that damn, Terry. Because I can completely understand from where they're coming from that there are so many shows that will they just lose it? Rick and Morty is one of them. Rick and Morty has lost it. Although the last season, I think that they're definitely coming back. It's. It was definitely better because I actually laughed my ass off in quite a few things. But Rick and Morty, which is definitely one of my favorite shows of all time. Yeah, it had sort of lost its way a little bit. Simpsons definitely definitely lost its way about 15 years ago. But again, as she watched the latest season of Simpsons, laughed my ass off. And I'm like, oh, maybe this is good again. Maybe, just maybe it's good again. I'm not saying it is. I'm just saying I actually laughed my ass off. I thought it was actually. The last season was really, really funny. And isn't that the point of a comedy show is to make me laugh? I mean, we're not looking for Oscars. People just make me laugh. I want to laugh out loud. And that's the most beautiful thing about Bob's Burgers is that it's. It's still going. I think it's in its 14th or 15th season. And, dude, it's still. I don't think it's ever, ever lost any quality whatsoever. So those people have a great formula because they're continuing it. But if these people who made smiling friends are saying, you know, we don't believe we can do that, we can't continue the quality, then that is a really, really brave decision to be like, okay, you know, we're done now. And interestingly enough, three seasons seems to be about right when it comes to UK like, comedies. Think about it, right? Little Britain, three seasons. Yeah.

Jordan (7:42)

Mighty Boosh, three seasons.

Sad (7:45)

Blackadder, four seasons. Only three of them are good. First one sucks.

Jordan (7:48)

Like, Faulty Towers was only like one or two, wasn't it?

Sad (7:51)

Yep, two.

Jordan (7:52)

Just crazy to think that it was only two seasons.

Sad (7:55)

You know, these. These programs also would only have six or seven episodes.

Jordan (8:00)

Yeah.

Sad (8:01)

I think the biggest one, and I can't can believe how long it went for is Red Dwarf. That. That one just kept going and then

Jordan (8:07)

they brought it back again. It was just wow. Yeah. It is crazy, though. And it's. It's weird because I followed Zach Hadel since I was like 14. He used to have a YouTube channel where he would make cartoons and he would do it as well with a. An Irish creator called Chris O'. Neill. And they were on YouTube forever. They used. They've done so many dark humor adult cartoons on YouTube. And so much of my echolalia comes from these shows. So when Zach basically disappeared off YouTube for like six years, everyone was like, oh, where is he? He was away making and working on Smiling Friends with Cartoon Network and Adult Swimming, developing it. And I freaking love the. The humor is just me. It absolutely nails my humor. The show is also like really deep in moments as well, and a bit like sort of existential, but it's. It. I just really liked it. And it was only like 20, I say only like 27 or so episodes and each was 15 minutes. It's a really sort of short show for the animation. But one of the things that it has made me think about is that neurodivergent creators can work on something for 10, 15 years. And as soon as you get it over that hump of it being like in the cultural zeitgeist and a really big show and as successful as you've ever wanted it to be, as soon as you get that medal, you're done. Just want to step off. It's like you've achieved your goal and you just want to step away from it rather than trying to continue or meet new goals. I feel like that in my own life where I have succeeded at something, and rather than sort of sitting with it, I go, well, what am I going to work on next? What's next?

Sad (9:54)

Yeah, it's that. It's that, oh, what next thing. And the fact is, if. If. I mean, they are absolutely brilliant what they do, so why not do something different? I mean, isn't that the neurodivergent way?

Jordan (10:07)

Well, that's what I mean. It just makes me sad, though, because I loved this show. It was so, so funny. And it's such a shame when you lose things. And so many people online are like, I've only just gotten into this and I feel like it's gone. So I understand why people are grieving. But I'll just add this. I thought this was Interesting. When they revealed the news in a video post, they actually characterized that it was their end. They chose to make the decision. And apparently Adult Swim, who commission and work on the show with them, have been really supportive. Cusack has said. When we told the network, their response was, if you're not feeling like making a cartoon, we're not going to stop you. Go have a break. Either come back or don't. And that's, you know, it's difficult, isn't it? These guys have built a show on the level of popularity of Rick and Morty. And just as they've reached, like, the height of popularity, not just like, you know, in. In, like, socially, but, like, financially, like, these guys are going to have walked away from a ridiculous amount of money and continued success. Like, this show could have run for nine, 10 seasons in the way that it was formulated. And they're not even doing, like, a finale. They're releasing two more episodes of the season, and that's it. So they're not even calling it finale. So just all these little straggler episodes that we just wanted to put out, they're not even sort of choosing to wrap it up. They're just going, we're done. Bye. And I respect it. But I also am quite aware of how that is just autistic burnout. You just, I just can't do anymore. I'm done.

Sad (11:51)

I would say one thing is that I don't like the way that it was so abrupt, I guess, because they must know that their show is very popular with neurodivergent people. And that does show a lack of empathy, understanding of their audience, that they're just like, boom, we're done. Rather than giving people a heads up saying, oh, we're only going to do one more season, so at least you can sort of have time to adjust your expectations that little bit. But nowadays my expectation is that everything's going to get canceled, which, to me, it's a bit like var in football is, oh, was that a goal? I can't really celebrate it until I know. So there's a lot of shows that I'm like, well, I want to get into that. But until there's at least three seasons, I'm very wary that I might invest myself in something that's going to be taken away. And as a neurodivergent person, that is very, very hard to take. So I can completely understand why people are really upset by this, because it does feel like you've just had your toys snatched away after being given the best toy you've ever had. But for those people listening who are, you know, struggling, you haven't lost it. It's not gone. You still got all the episodes you had. And in that very neurodivergent way, we could just go and watch them over and over and over and over again.

Jordan (13:31)

Yeah.

Sad (13:32)

Because I know that's what I do.

Jordan (13:33)

And.

Sad (13:34)

And what we call it. Cozy watch. It's your. It's your. It's your cozy watch. You know, if you're feeling down or what.

Jordan (13:40)

Just.

Sad (13:41)

And you know what to expect. So think of it as you've got three seasons of absolutely amazing content. Can you imagine if the fourth season absolutely sucked? Because then that might actually ruin it for you.

Jordan (13:54)

Yeah. It's interesting that they've actually both said in their statement, I'll just read the final bit of it. They've put. Our representatives and Adult Swim are like, surely we'll just go on forever. But Zach and I know what's best for the show. Even if we had a thousand ideas at the end of this season, we're not going to go on for long. We know this is very disappointing. It's very hard to even record this recording for it because it's just been very difficult thing for us to say. We hope you understand and we hope you've enjoyed what we've done. It's been amazing. The fans have been so good. It's been the best. It's been the ride of a lifetime. And they've just chosen to sort of walk. It would be like the guy who did the first season. I think he did the first two seasons of SpongeBob and died. And then the show just ran forever and ever. And it's had multiple movies and it's become a huge, like, franchise for Nickelodeon.

Sad (14:46)

Favorite shows of all time.

Jordan (14:47)

But his whole intention was to end it after two seasons.

Sad (14:50)

I'm very glad that he didn't know.

Jordan (14:52)

But wait, he died? He didn't have a decision in it.

Sad (14:54)

Yeah.

Jordan (14:55)

So I actually really respect a creator who's gone. No, I'm creatively burnt out. If I'm not happy with it, I'm not willing to put it out. I'm done. But I am also, like, amazed that this is probably my favorite animated show of the past decade. And it's incredibly influential on a lot of people. It has that millennial Internet humor that just doesn't exist on the Internet too much anymore. It's very much a. A show for a certain generation of its time. It's incredibly quotable, and it's a lot of my ukulele is built into it and I am actually really sad that it's ending. But I'm also very proud of the two creators that they've gone now. We're doing this on our terms and I don't care if we're going to be offered millions of millions of pounds. I'm choosing me over the money that like wow, Integrity. Good goddamn tegrity. Right there.

Sad (15:52)

It is indeed. Shall I have a break and then we can carry on in the second bit?

Jordan (15:57)

Sure.

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Jordan (17:45)

Welcome back to your nerd video Virgin Experience. Hot Topic. I have been grieving a show that I love that is disappearing. But fortunately some other neurodivergent creators have got their fingers out and they're making a show again that we're both very keen on. What are they doing? Jordan?

Sad (17:59)

They're making a show about me.

Jordan (18:05)

Now go on.

Sad (18:05)

What they're really doing no, No. Yeah. Malcolm in the Middle and Scrubs are both coming back. Scrubs is coming back.

Jordan (18:18)

I'm not too bothered about Scrubs coming back.

Sad (18:20)

You know, mate, Scrubs was one of my favorite ever. I love Scrubs so much. And the greatest thing about it is the guy in your room and his name. I'm terrible. Who wrote Ted Lasso is writing it with Zach Goldstein. Yeah. Brett Goldstein and Zach Braff are writing it. So the guy who's made Ted Lasso and Shrinking brilliant is now. Is now writing it with Zach Braff and. And I've seen the adverts for it, and it looks very, very similar. And they. Instead of coming into it as young doctors, they're coming into it as older doctors who are going through their midlife crisis, and now they have to deal with the young doctors who were causing problems. But Dr. Cox is back. Everyone's back. That is all good. And I'm very trusting of the people that are behind it because Ted Lasso and Shrinking are fantastic shows. They're so well written, and they have that perfect balance of humor and seriousness, you know, emotion and humor that Scrubs originally had. You know, I could cry watching Scrubs with laughter and with sadness. It was such a good show for me. But also, Malcolm the Middle is coming back. I've only just got into it.

Jordan (19:43)

Absolutely blows my mind. This is a show from, like, 2000 to 2006. Yeah.

Sad (19:48)

But what you've got to remember, dude, is I'm 14 years older than you, so it's.

Jordan (19:53)

It.

Sad (19:54)

It would have been my kids that would watch. Yeah, most people forget that, especially when they look at me. They're like, how old are you?

Jordan (20:01)

And I'm like, It does. It does depress me slightly. If we were both stood next to each other, which one of you is 44? They would have to think,

Sad (20:14)

I look so freaking young. Born fortunate.

Jordan (20:18)

I obviously just need more cuddly toys in my presence at all times.

Sad (20:22)

Mind young face. That's how it goes.

Jordan (20:25)

Anyway, Malcolm in the Middle is coming back, isn't it? And I loved the original show, dude. It is such a great representation of a neurodivergent family and the different ways that that neurotype can manifest itself across family. Because all of the kids are nd, but they're all so different. Like, Malcolm and Dewey are just such different characters, but yet they have so much in common that is sort of relatable. And Hal is probably the best ADHD dad I've seen on tv.

Sad (20:57)

Oh, he's. He's just. I Watch it. And I'm like, that man might be me. Like, I'm just like. He's just. There's so much what he does. I'm just like, oh, my God. I don't think I've ever related to a. To a character as much as I have with Hal as a dad. Like a dad character. I'm just like, oh, my God. But I'm. I'm actually. I'm like a combination of the mum and the dad.

Jordan (21:24)

Yeah.

Sad (21:24)

So I'm the. I'm. For me, my role was always to discipline the kids, to give them those boundaries. Whereas, you know, Sylvie would organize, you know, doctors, and she did all the boring stuff, but I'd have to do all the. The disciplining. But also I was the fun idiot who would mess up a lot of the time and be very, very lax. Basically. I was my own worst enemy.

Jordan (21:50)

Yeah. No, it's. I just sort of love the representation of it. Especially like Malcolm's character in the first episode. He reveals that he's got an IQ of 165. And that instantly creates a really funny relationship with the rest of his family because, like, him and Dewey and Rhys together get into ridiculous situations. Like, Rhys is constantly buying and saying that he can and can do stuff and that he is certain stuff, and he ends up in all of these really wild situations that just cause absolute chaos. And it's like the parents are always angry with them for something, but then they're also as equally as susceptible. Like Howl's wife, Lois. I couldn't remember her name then. So Lois, her justice sensitivity around her sons. I have not seen another character like that. Like when Rhys gets dumped by that girl and she literally ruins her life. She goes to school and does, like, some weird and wonderful. You may have not got to that episode.

Sad (22:51)

I haven't got that episode fine.

Jordan (22:52)

Very, very funny. Like, she psychologically tortures this poor girl.

Sad (22:59)

So I've. I've seen two. I was like, there is this. There is this characteristic of. Of American mothers in these sort of sitcom comedies where they're the serious ones, they're the caregivers, and they're the ones that put their foot down, whereas the dads are just carefree and just plonk for giant children. And it's the same with Everybody Loves Raymond. Yep, it's that way. And it's. It's the same in the Simpsons. You know, it's. It's so. It's. It's such a. It's almost like a done trope with Sammy Goldberg's. Except that the dad in that is just doesn't give a.

Jordan (23:42)

He's a proper dickhead.

Sad (23:44)

Doesn't care. But it's sweet actually, because in the Goldbergs, when he does care, he really cares. But it's only when he has to care. He's. He's a very, very 80s dad.

Jordan (23:55)

Hallen, Lois care too much. That's the thing is you can see that they care. They're like their lives are their kids so much.

Sad (24:02)

But I remember, I just love from the Goldbergs is that face smother. And not a mother is a smother. And yeah, Lois is definitely a smother, but in a very different way. It's. She's constantly, you know, I do believe that a lot of problems those kids have is because she's reactive rather than. What's the word I'm looking for? Rather than putting the boundaries in place and, and you know, in teaching them the best way to do it, she just, she just keeps punishing them over and over again. It's like that does not work with neurodivergent children. And that show shows it so well.

Jordan (24:46)

It's good. It's a, it's a really good representation of a parent having RSD because like anytime she tries to do anything for them and they're like, oh, Mum, get off me. She's like, oh, if I'm that kind of mother, then let's see how you do without me. Like, yeah, every single time.

Sad (25:00)

That manipulation just brings me back to my childhood. It's not a good thing.

Jordan (25:04)

No, it's not a good thing, but it's, it just gives a great sort of representation of the good and the bad of like the things that they get wrong, but the things that they get right. Which is why I'm really excited about the, the little miniseries that's coming back. Life's Still Unfair. And the synopsis is after shielding himself and his daughter from his family for more than a decade, Malcolm gets dragged back into their orbit when Hal and Lois demand his presence at their 40th anniversary party. That's gonna be a really great self contained sort of space for this. And I'm really intrigued to see like he's obviously the character Malcolm has chosen to be away from his family for 10 years. And I'm intrigued to see how those characters sad though. Well, that's what I mean. He's like, how, how has that happened? Why has that happened and what are they gonna do about it?

Sad (25:53)

I, the more I watch it, the more unlikable Malcolm is Like, at the end of the day, I think that he is an unlikable character, but he's also. You can relate to him. That's. That from. From what I'm watching, from what I'm seeing, that that is the. The way that he is the straight man. And the straight man isn't always the, like, most likable character, but you need the straight man in order for the others to, you know, shine down. Yeah. So it. It, it is. It is a. I mean, I remember that the guy who plays Malcolm actually said that his character is unlikable, that he doesn't like his character, like, as a person, which. Which is, you know, that's part of the show. And I'm guessing that's what they've done with this one.

Jordan (26:38)

Yeah. But anyway, really excited by it.

Sad (26:41)

Good. Some bad news and now some good news.

Jordan (26:43)

So we win.

Sad (26:45)

Yeah. Well, who knows? Maybe in 10 years we'll have smiling friends come back. So I'll give you a hug. All right. Okay.

Jordan (26:52)

Bye, everybody. Well, this has been your hot topic for this week. How do you feel when things that you really love and are a part of your echolalia and become special interests get cancelled? But you also have to respect the creators if they're burnt out? How does it make you feel? Made me sad. Hi, everybody. This is your hot topic for this week. We'll be back on Thursday and Ashley will be with you on Monday. Maybe she'll make me feel better about smiling friends ending nightly. Bye. Bye. I'm not sad.

Sad (27:17)

You're sad.

Jordan (27:22)

Thanks for tuning in to the neurodivergent Experience. We hope today's episode sparks something for you, whether it's a new idea, a bit of validation, or just a moment of connection. Remember, new episodes are every week, so be sure to join us for the next one for more conversations and insights into the neurodivergent experience. If you've enjoyed this podcast, help us grow. You can do that by rating and reviewing this show. Your support makes a huge difference in helping us reach more people who could benefit from these conversations. You can connect with us on social media, find us on Instagram, Facebook, Tik Tok. Just search for the neurodivergent experience. Thank you again for listening, and until next time, take care of yourself. You're not alone in this journey.

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Jordan (29:08)

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Sad (29:13)

Recommend

Jordan (29:15)

Howdy, howdy ho and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas.

Wayfair and Fantasy Fangirls Hosts (Hayden and Stephen) (29:18)

I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.

Sad (29:23)

And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball. But you can call me the Smash Daddy.

Wayfair and Fantasy Fangirls Hosts (Hayden and Stephen) (29:27)

And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Stephen here has not read Mistborn before.

Sad (29:36)

That's right. Hey. Hey. So each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter.

Jordan (29:41)

And along the way, we'll do character

Wayfair and Fantasy Fangirls Hosts (Hayden and Stephen) (29:43)

deep dives, magic explainers, and Ste will

Jordan (29:45)

even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert. He'll be wrong.

Sad (29:48)

News flash. I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can find Fantasy Fan Fellas wherever you get your podcasts.

Jordan (29:57)

ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcast everywhere. Acast.com.