Podcast Summary: The Neurodivergent Experience

Episode: Hot Topic: Too Old to Start? How Neurodivergent People Are Locked Out of Apprenticeships

Hosts: Jordan James and Simon Scott

Date: December 26, 2025

Overview of the Episode

In this thought-provoking "Hot Topic" edition, Jordan and Simon dive deep into the issue of age limits on UK apprenticeship schemes and how these restrictions disproportionately affect neurodivergent individuals. Drawing upon a recent BBC article, their own personal experiences, and the stories of listeners and family members, the hosts explore the challenges late-bloomers face in accessing meaningful work opportunities and question why 25 is deemed "too old" for support. The episode blends statistical insights, passionate debate, and candid storytelling to highlight the systemic barriers neurodivergent people encounter—and calls for policy changes that recognize diverse developmental timelines.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Apprenticeship Expansion—Who Is Being Left Behind? (02:34–06:08)

• Government Push: The UK government announces an increase to 50,000 youth apprenticeships over three years and new fields like AI, hospitality, and engineering. The youth apprenticeship cutoff is at age 25.
• Statistical Context: Apprenticeship starts for young people have fallen by 40% in the last decade; nearly a million 16–24-year-olds are NEET (not in employment, education, or training).
• Host Reflection: Both hosts share their struggles with finding direction after university—highlighting that indecisiveness and late discovery of passions is normal, not just a neurodivergent trait.
  • Jordan: “It's not a neurodivergent thing being indecisive about your future. It's a human thing.” (03:33)

2. The 25-Year Cutoff: Arbitrary and Exclusionary (06:08–10:39)

• Listener Story: Rose Atkinson’s autistic daughter, 27, with a degree in animation, is now "too old" for apprenticeship schemes—all because of the age limit.
• Systemic Irony: The system penalizes neurodivergent people for traits it acknowledges—such as slower developmental timelines—by not accommodating them in practical pathways.
  • Jordan: “They're happy to treat me like a youth in my 40s when it suits them, but not when it actually helps a human.” (10:39)
• Broader Critique: Many neurodivergent individuals don’t settle on a career by age 25; development is not linear, and “late bloomers” are common.
  • Simon: “I know many people that have changed their careers in their 30s that have been exceptional at what they've done.” (10:39)

3. The Economic and Social Cost of Exclusion (12:22–14:31)

• Contradictory Narratives: Society complains about "benefit scroungers" or people not working, but fails to provide entry points for those who want to contribute.
  • Simon: “Give them opportunities to pull themselves out, and the system isn't gonna need to support them as much because they can support themselves.” (13:43)
• Underemployment: Neurodivergent adults want to work in their chosen fields, but lack meaningful opportunities due to restrictive policies and excessive competition with neurotypicals.

4. Policy Response: Rhetoric vs. Reality (14:59–18:13)

• Government Response: Skills Minister Baroness Jackie Smith claims reform is coming, with greater support for young people and some new short courses for adults.
  • Hosts' Skepticism: The key issue—arbitrary age cutoff—remains unaddressed. Calls for a neurodivergent or disabled-specific apprenticeship pathway.
  • Jordan: “They should have an apprenticeship scheme that is specifically for people with neurodivergent related conditions… Sometimes you need to be separated for accommodation.” (18:13)
• Equity Analogy: Like separate leagues in sports, different support structures can promote fair inclusion while accommodating actual needs.

5. Success Stories, Barriers, and the Cost of "Following the Rules" (20:13–25:36)

• Industry Insight: Creative fields like animation, media, and podcasting are rarely accessible to people without connections or financial backup—many end up in unrelated jobs, despite having relevant degrees.
  • Simon: “The majority of people that work in [audio] are over the age of 40, there's not a super lot of young blood coming in… because I can't do work placements where I don't get paid.” (21:49)
• Financial Pressures vs. Idealism: Many neurodivergent (and neurotypical) graduates work in unrelated fields just to survive, undermining the value of their education and ambitions.
  • Jordan: "What those degrees will be used for is proof that they are capable of being high learners... they're using their degrees as clout more than actually what they've got a degree in.” (23:42)
• Late Bloomers: Hosts reinforce that changing careers or coming into your own at 27 or even 31 is still youthful. The system’s expectations are outdated.
  • Simon: “At 31, I don't even feel like I've started sometimes.” (25:36)

6. The Need for Lived Experience in Policy-Making (26:22–end)

• Common-Sense Policy: Jordan and Simon stress that solutions are clear to those living the reality, contrasting with costly government studies that ignore practical lived experience.
  • Simon: “We didn't need to spend a million pounds of taxpayers money on a research thing to figure that out. We know from lived experience.” (26:27)
• Final Call: The hosts close by urging more inclusive opportunities, especially for neurodivergent youth, emphasizing limitless potential when given a genuine chance.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Arbitrary Age Limits:

  “I've asked various organizations why 25 is the magic number and nobody can give me an answer… [my daughter] needs a long term internship so that her degree is not a waste.”
  — Quoting Rose Atkinson (06:08)

• On Systemic Contradiction:

  "They make the rules. You are disabled because you do things slower. And then they go, right. But we're going to punish you for doing things slower. Make it make sense, dude."
  — Jordan (07:47)

• On Value of Lived Experience:

  “We didn't need to spend million pounds of taxpayers money on a research thing… We know from lived experience.”
  — Simon (26:27)

• On Late Bloomers:

  “At 31, I don't even feel like I've started sometimes.”
  — Simon (25:36)

• On Systemic Ableism:

  “For a world that loves to infantilize us and then turns around and says, 25 is the youth cutoff…”
  — Jordan (10:39)

• On System Solutions:

  “They should have an apprenticeship scheme that is specifically for people with neurodivergent related conditions… sometimes you need to be separated for accommodation.”
  — Jordan (18:13)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:34] Overview of BBC article about apprenticeship expansion and age cutoff
• [06:08] Story of Rose Atkinson’s daughter excluded at 27; discussing development timelines
• [10:39] Critique of arbitrary age limits and systemic ableism
• [14:59] Policy response from Skills Minister; host reactions
• [20:13] Discussion of creative industries, entry barriers, and impact on neurodivergent individuals
• [23:42] Reflection on true value of degrees for neurodivergent graduates
• [25:36] Late bloomers and youth redefined
• [26:27] Final thoughts on lived experience vs. policy, call for inclusion

Tone and Style

The hosts bring humor, candor, and a blend of personal and analytical perspectives. They use wit and sarcasm ("Happy Boxing Day—this is the day we box our children"; "Make it make sense, dude") to highlight the absurdity of current systems, but always return to empathy and advocacy for the neurodivergent community.

Closing Thoughts

This episode is a rallying call for more equitable access to employment opportunities for neurodivergent people—and a challenge to policymakers to design systems that respect real developmental diversity. Jordan and Simon offer a mix of frustration, hope, and practical advice, making this a must-listen for anyone interested in neurodiversity, employment policy, or social justice.