The Neurodivergent Experience

Hosts: Jordan James & Simon Scott

Episode: Hot Topic – “We’re Not On The Autism Spectrum, We’re In It”

Date: October 23, 2025

Overview

In this week’s “Hot Topic” episode, hosts Jordan James and Simon Scott (“Scotty”) delve into a provocative article from The Independent, which challenges the widely-accepted linear concept of the autism spectrum. Drawing on both personal experience and expert interviews, they debunk myths of a “mild to severe” spectrum and advocate for seeing autism as a complex, multidimensional experience—something you exist within, not on. The conversation tackles language, diagnosis criteria, societal attitudes, and the urgent need for moving beyond deficit-based models toward true neurodiversity acceptance.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Outdated Linear ‘Spectrum’ Model

• Early Conversation on Terminology:
  • The hosts poke fun at “experts” on autism, noting how even specialists can’t capture the diversity of autistic experience.
    • “I’m an expert on myself and my tism and that’s about it.” — Neurodivergent Advocate (03:27)
• Challenging ‘High’ and ‘Low’ Functioning:
  • The hosts critique the harmful binary labels within autism (“high” vs. “low”) and their origins.
    • The spectrum shouldn’t be visualized as a line or ranking from “more” to “less” autistic.
  • Memorable metaphor:
    • “Think of it as a balloon and you’re a molecule inside the balloon. You’re in the spectrum, you’re not on it.” — Neurodivergent Advocate (03:52)

2. Medicalization, Labels, and Support Needs

• Context of Diagnosis and ‘Levels’:
  • They discuss the DSM’s three levels for autism and emphasize how these categories don’t capture an individual’s real-world, fluctuating needs.
    • “Life circumstances can change a person’s needs. An autistic person who usually copes well may experience burnout…” — Jordan (12:07)
• Impact of Deficit-Focused Diagnoses:
  • “Golden Ticket of Autism” — The hosts describe being told they’re “lucky” to be “level one”, invalidating the challenges they face and dismissing personal struggle.

3. Lived Experience of Autism

• Personal Narratives:
  • Both Jordan and Scotty share that they once hated their diagnoses due to societal messaging, and have worked hard to reframe them as positive parts of their identity.
    • “I hated my autism in 2018 until I realized that it was actually flipping awesome…” — Neurodivergent Advocate (08:10)
  • They emphasize that individual autistic experiences are unique—no two struggle or succeed in the same ways.
    • “You and I have literally totally different reactions to situations all the time.” — Jordan (13:44)

4. Language Matters: From ‘On the Spectrum’ to ‘Autistic’

• Critique of Euphemistic and Deficit-Based Language:
  • The term “on the spectrum” is often used to avoid directly saying “autistic,” implying a negative judgment.
    • “‘Autism is not a scale of severity, but a way of being—a difference rather than a defect. Language will never capture every nuance, but words shape how society treats autistic people.’” — Jordan, reading from Amy Grant’s article (16:45)
• Power in Direct Identity:
  • Both hosts advocate for using “autistic” and “autism” openly and positively.

5. Societal Stigma, Media Representation, and Political Rhetoric

• Societal Impacts and ‘Epidemic’ Narratives:
  • They discuss the harm of public figures labeling autism as an “epidemic” and devaluing neurodivergent lives, drawing concerning parallels to eugenic language.
    • “If you look at someone and think, ‘Well, you don’t provide anything for me, so therefore you don’t deserve to exist,’ you’re saying that any mammal that doesn’t provide something for people doesn’t deserve to exist. It’s still a mammal, it’s still a human.” — Neurodivergent Advocate (21:21)
• Media and Celebrity Advocacy:
  • Hosts critique incomplete or tentative disclosures from celebrities, which reinforce shame and mildness messaging.

6. The Evolutionary and Social Value of Neurodiversity

• Alternative Neurotype Hypothesis:
  • Advocating for seeing autism (and ADHD, dyslexia, etc.) as alternative, evolved neurotypes with both challenges and strengths—rather than problems to be solved.
    • “These are remarkably evolved things that have massively benefited the world, that have unfortunate consequences of these conditions…” — Neurodivergent Advocate (28:12)
• Hope & Change:
  • The hosts recognize recent media as a positive shift, encouraging the neurodivergent community and society to move towards a strengths-based perspective.
    • “Reading an article like this gives me hope because they are actually talking about us like we’re actually people and not just a thing…” — Jordan (24:13)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the meaning of ‘the spectrum’:
  • “It’s not a road... where is the end?” — Jordan (04:21)
• On dangerous social narratives:
  • “In the worst case, those judged as less useful for society become vulnerable to future genocides…” — Jordan, quoting the article (19:12)
  • “All of this language is like eugenics language... it’s coming all back around.” — Jordan (23:12)
• Metaphor for autistic sensitivity:
  • “Living without skin just summed it up perfectly.” — Jordan (19:12)
• On individual journeys:
  • “Accepting who I am and living with the light and shade of just my living experience... our experiences are so individual and so unique.” — Jordan (30:03)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Topic/Quote Highlight | |-------|---------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:52 | "Balloon" metaphor for being “in” the spectrum | | 06:41 | Discussing Lorna Wing's original, non-linear vision of spectrum | | 08:10 | Personal narratives of hating then embracing autism | | 12:07 | Critique of DSM ‘levels’ and support needs | | 13:44 | Individuality of autistic lived experience | | 16:45 | Language shaping perception—quote from Amy Grant’s article | | 19:12 | “Living without skin” and warning on societal treatment/genocide | | 21:21 | “If you look at someone…” — humanity regardless of ‘use’ | | 24:13 | Hope in media moving toward strengths-based neurodiversity | | 28:12 | Alternative neurotype—evolutionary framing | | 30:03 | Embracing personal light and shade |

Closing Perspective

The episode closes with both hosts expressing hope that with more public conversations and high-visibility articles, society will finally move away from the language and thinking of scarcity, ranking, and deficit. Their invitation to listeners: share your experiences, read widely, and never let yourself—or others—be defined by the old “on the spectrum” model.

Tone & Style:
Relaxed, witty, at times irreverent, with a focus on honest sharing and advocacy for neurodivergent people everywhere.

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