← The Neurodivergent Experience
The Neurodivergent Experience
Knowledge Is Power: How Self-Advocacy Transforms The Neurodivergent Experience
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Welcome to the Neurodivergent Experience podcast, a podcast where we share the lived experiences of neurodivergent people to help create a better understanding for our community.
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Join us every week as we bring you honest, raw, and inspiring conversations with specialists, advocates, and individuals who know exactly what it's like to live the neurodivergent Experience.
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I'm Jordan James, a neurodivergent specialist, father of neurodivergent children, husband to a neurodivergent wife, and author of the Autistic Experience. And I'm joined by my best friend.
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I'm Simon Scott. I'm an autistic ADHD broadcaster, actor and advocate. Join us as we journey into unraveling the Neurodivergent experience.
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Hello. Hello and welcome back to the neurodiversion Experience. I'm back, people. I had a whole week off. My goodness me. I know you will miss me, but what an amazing episode. What amazing episode? I had serious fomo. I was like, oh no, I don't get to talk over everybody. People actually get to like, say the full sentence without me interrupting. I was like, yeah. Oh man. I wasn't there to, to, to make inappropriate jokes during serious conversation because I get uncomfortable with when people are taking things too seriously. I didn't, I didn't get to do that. But it was, it was a great episode and I actually listened to it as a listener, as a fan, and I actually learned some really interesting things about my own body just by listening to Ashley. Which is, is definitely something I do often is listen to Ashley. But yeah, I had a great time in, in the New Forest. So. Scotty, hello.
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A
Still here.
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B
You are still here. You are, you are 100% here. And did you miss me?
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A
You know what, mate? I did. It's. It's so funny. You take sort of just people's voices and their sort of like presence for granted. Like I did the, the episode with Ashley last week on Alice Danlos Synd had a wonderful time, really enjoyed it. But there were moments where I was just like, oh, I have to talk. Because I'm so used to our like dynamic and the rhythm of the show and the sort of like, who knew we were routine based, eh? And when I pressed record, I literally just went, oh yeah, I've got to do this bit now. Hello everybody. But you know. Yeah, man. No, I, it was, it was weird being without you. I got a bit of FOMO and it was just weird. Sort of like not hearing your voice because we were both away at the same time. I was in the. The ass end of a field listening to loud music and you were off taking photos with Pickle, having a wonderful time. So I hadn't heard your voice until I edited what was last week's Hot Topic. And then I sort of press play.
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B
Was like, oh, bro.
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A
That was quite nice.
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B
Yeah.
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So really looking forward to sort of getting back into the rhythm. It's been a bit of a sort of crazy one for us, hasn't it while we've it.
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It has, yeah.
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A
So isn't it?
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Obviously we had the PD episode and I'm sure a lot of listeners, that was their first episode. So. Hi there. How you doing?
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Hello.
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Welcome. Welcome back. But currently it is a week before this one will come out. We're in the past, people, and today the EDS episode came out and that is already killing it. Thanks to, thanks to our new, new listeners from the PDA episode. So I'm really, really glad that you're still here if you are. And yeah, thank, thank you for supporting us because we didn't just have an increase on that PD episode. Our previous best episode was roughly about 300 downloads in a single day for one episode, and that one had something like 700.
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A
Yeah, yeah. So basically, long story short, as listenership has increased by about 60%, which. Yeah. So basically, you put out a post on your Facebook page and it went viral.
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B
It reached 650,000 people, which is not bad. It's all right. Yeah. It's a Facebook one.
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A
Yeah, yeah, exactly. But, you know, it's. It's so exciting that these sorts of conversations are reaching more people. And, you know, if we've had a huge influx of new subscribers, which is so exciting. And this show was already doing in, like, coming from a podcast producer's experience, it was already doing fabulously well. I was. I'm very proud of what we've built here, and the fact that it seems to have had a rocket now strapped to its bum is a bit daunting, but also very exciting.
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B
Yeah. We're over 80,000 downloads at the time of recording, which is incredible. My. My following on my Facebook page went up by 2000 as well, which is nice.
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Crazy.
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Yeah. Because that barely ever moves because the meta algorithm is just horrendous. But it does lead us into today's episode, which is. Which obviously what my Facebook is, and an advocacy as well as a photography page. But my photography is part of my advocacy, as everyone knows. And that's. It's always nice to be able to reach more people and to be able to help more people, because that's from. For me, what advocacy is about. It's not only about helping myself and helping my family, but it's about helping people feel better. Because I was at that stage of my life in 2018, when I literally hated being autistic. I just hated it, and it was very, very damaging to me. So being able to advocate, you know, the realities of autism, whether they're good or bad, but just to be able to see both sides of the coins is incredibly rewarding, especially when I get the feedback that I do, you know, from. From Facebook. But you've been advocating yourself, I mean, through this podcast, obviously, but you've had a bit of an experience at the festival, haven't you, Scotty?
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Yeah. So it's been one of those sorts of, like, it was really eye opening and also like a little. A little bit daunting. But I feel. I think the feeling I'm feeling is pride in myself, Jordan. I'm getting used to this sort of feeling.
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You should, man.
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Thanks.
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Do it.
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Yeah.
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But I'm trying because of pda.
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Yeah, yeah, it's so true. But, you know, my sort of advocacy journey began with you. You know, I feel like we've had such a Jedi Padawan sort of relationship. And I went away to Leeds Festival and this is the 10th time I've done it in 15 years. It's the first. So my first one was 15 years ago. I feel old. I was walking around as a 31 year old.
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Say that I'm 44 next month.
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Sorry. But anyway, so at this festival, and I'm in the disability sort of accessibility camping, which is super, super helpful. Nice clean toilets, I can get a shower in the morning, it's not too far to walk. And I'm also surrounded by my people. So everybody that I'm camping with is neurodivergent in some way, shape or form. And some of the conversations that we were having at the little camp in the evenings, dude, was so sort of healing for everybody that was there. Like, we were having conversations about things that we struggled with. We were talking about things that we were really good at and just being in this conversation where there was just so much like positive energy. But everyone was being very open and. And quite expressive about what we do and don't struggle with. And one of the guys that I was camping to kind of took me aside and he just went, I just really want to thank you. And I was a bit like, for what he said for your podcast, like, right, okay. I'll be honest, mate, I didn't really know that you listened. And he went, yep. No, I love listening to it. It's really affirming. It makes me feel really good about myself and it makes me not dislike myself, you know, it's. I listen to it and I'm like, wow, that's so relatable. I can't believe people feel or think like I do. And I don't feel as alone as I used to. Listening to your show and even talking about it now, dude, is making me feel a bit emotional because I was just like, holy shit. Like, that's. I can't believe that I've done that. And I still don't feel like I've done it really. But having these sorts of, like, little conversations and just one on ones with people. We were talking about, you know, pda and one of my friends is really dyslexic and we just sort of had these sorts of conversations where we talked about what we had going on in a fun, quite safe way. And I really feel like going away and having these sorts of Conversations with people has actually done a. Quite a lot of healing for me, and I really hope that that sort of has passed on to other people and they've had a bit of healing as well. And I now actually feel like it's not even like a Jedi Padawan situation. I now feel like a Jedi, but I actually feel like an advocate now. I'm not having imposter syndrome about it or sort of going, oh, yeah, but other people. I actually feel like by talking about myself and sharing my experiences and my perspective, I actually feel like I've helped.
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People and, oh, undoubtedly.
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And it feels incredible. But it's also like. It's just an unusual feeling that I'm sort of processing. But now that I feel like I'm on this stage where I'm a Jedi, I just feel like I've just done a lot of healing this weekend, dude. And talking to other people and just sort of just being real in a field with. With people in nature and with good music and good vibes and being kind to each other. I was just like, man, I wish the world could be like this. But, yeah, no, I. I'm sort of like, I'm struggling to find my words. I'm getting a bit alexithymic, and I think it's because I'm emotional.
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But, no, that's all right, man. I mean, I absolutely agree that you. You're definitely a Jedi, man. Seriously, it's. It's been wonderful to see your growth and. And I think that's. That's the greatest thing about advocacy. You know, it's. It's not a qualification. It's not a job. It's. It's not like, oh, I've been to advocacy school and now I can.
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I've got myself.
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And, yeah, I can call myself an advocate now. Anyone can call themselves an advocate. It's just whether you feel like you're an advocate, you know, are you. And you can be an advocate for yourself. You can be an advocate for your family, like I said, or you can be an advocate for your community. Now, I don't speak, although I get accused of this a lot. Love, Love social media. I do not speak for other neurodivergent people. I speak for myself with their permission. Sometimes I speak for my family and friends, and I always get their permission, but I don't. I don't speak for the. For the general public community of the neurodivergent people. The similarities of my experience, you know, compared to theirs. That is just what it is, you know, and it's and it's going to be different for everyone. And our journeys are always different. And how we get to the place we get to is going to be different and the place we get to is going to be different. But we do have this crazy commonality that, like, especially in. I would see that with the Autistic Experience book is that, you know, so many people, when they read it, literally came back. And the main feedback from that book, from the thousands of people that read it, were, oh, I feel seen, like, and it, it's. And it's crazy that this podcast, that book, my page and other pages like it, that we have to do that work in order for our people to, to feel loved, to feel cared about, to feel like they belong. Like, why the fuck do we have to do it?
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Yeah.
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Should, shouldn't, shouldn't, like, shouldn't that just be a thing? It's, it's just. But that, but that is the way of the world. The fact is we're a minority, where we're a minority who has been misrepresented for decades, misrepresented through media, through studies, through charities. You know that people will always talk about us, but they won't listen to us. We get talked over. It's, oh, you are this, you are that. Which is why when, when I, I got together with Marie Locke and we put the book together, our main thing was there will be no one in this book who will talk about other people being autistic who aren't autistic. There will be no non autistic people being part of this book. And that's rare, dude.
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A
Oh, hell yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
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Because most books are. Oh, we talk, we talk to, including Steve Silverman's book, which is incredible. But it's. We talk to this many autistic people and this is what we found. Well, we didn't do it. This is what we found.
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A
That's very science based, isn't it?
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Yeah, yeah. I mean, to be fair, that is what we, you know, people wanted us to do.
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Yeah, yeah.
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They were like, oh, you've got all of this amazing information, but you're not going to use it to like, tell us how autistic people are. And I'm like, well, no, that you can do that. You can do that on your own time. The information is there, but that's not what the book's about. The book is about one thing and that is showing that autistic people are their own people, that they're all different, but they all have similar experiences because of the way we're treated.
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Preach.
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And that's the advocacy is. It's not our fault we're autistic. This is how we're born. So don't hate me because I'm different. Hate me if I'm an.
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Oh, yeah.
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Hate me if I'm an absolute piece of. That's fine. Just because I'm autistic doesn't mean I can't be an. I know plenty of Elon Musk who are autistic. Elon. Elon Musk. Elon Musk and Elon Musk. That's at least four.
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Just LaMountain Rushmore of autistic.
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Just him. There. There are plenty, believe me. But, yeah, it's. It doesn't. It doesn't give me. Can't Blanche to just be a dick. You know, you. You've got to learn how to communicate. And, and that is the greatest thing about advocacy is, is that you can. It. Is it in a way that, like I said, there's different types of advocacy, but I like to think one of the types of advocacy I do is teaching. I teach by doing. I teach by. I do training. You know, I do my motivational talks. And my favorite advocacy that I've ever done is. Is when I go to. To the schools and I talk to the kids at schools and, and I see how. How excited they are at the end of the talks where that, you know, you can see that they're just like, oh, I don't want to be here. I don't want to be here. And by the end of it, they're all just. They're all coming up to me and asking me questions. And one of my favorite moments was this little girl right at the back in. In this is a primary school. And it was question time. And most of the questions are, how did you get so close to that tiger? Yeah, Because I have my photography.
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A
Tell me about the bed.
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B
Yeah, they're like, how did you get. It's called. Yes. It's called a zoom lens. It's fine. But this little girl, she puts her hand up and she said, I'm autistic, just like you. And I was like, oh, that's. That's really sweet. You know, I just thought it was a sweet thing. And then the, The Senko teacher came, comes up to me at the end, and she went. We've never even heard her admit that in private.
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A
Wow.
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Oh. And I was like, what? Said, yeah, the. The. The parents don't really talk about it. You know, she got diagnosed last year and she Just thought it was something wrong with her. She said, she, she's never said it ever. She'd never, ever said I'm autistic. And she just said it in front of the whole school and, and said, but that's because of you. And I was like, wow. The power of, of being able to advocate because it's, it's. Not everyone can do it. Not everyone can do it, you know, or. So I, I think we've discussed this before. I, I feel privileged, dude. Like, I have, I have so much privilege in my life, but, you know, being autistic is not a privilege, but being autistic and be able to advocate. Being ADHD and being able to advocate and be eloquent in my speech, especially having dyslexia as well, I feel privileged that I'm, I'm able to do that.
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A
No, I, I, I totally understand what you're saying. Wow. Just almost sort of like sitting with that, what you were just saying there about.
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B
Do you want me to get you even more emotional? I went. When one of the talks I went to the little boy was there and his parents followed. His parents followed me on Facebook and they knew I was coming. And this little kid, you know, he'd seen my pictures and, you know, he was really excited to meet me, and he bought me a cuddly toy, Captain America. And he said that he want, he, I was his hero, so he wanted to buy me a hero. When I don't feel good. Oh, no.
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A
I'm also. Wow.
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B
And I was like, wow, this feels so. That is why that was. I don't do it anymore. Mostly because, like, I don't know. I don't know why I don't. I would love to do it more, but, like, it's very difficult with schools. They, It's. I get a lot of RSD because I'd be like, they'll be like, oh, I'm going to set it up. And then school. And I never even charged it. I'm. I'll do this for free. They're still difficult about it. Yeah. But, yeah, it, that and, and doing the, the photography trips with the kids as well, just, it was just so good.
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A
Oh, that's. That's awesome, man. And that's sort of like, even though it was a sort of different situation, I wasn't doing a talk, but just sort of like being sat in a circle in camp chairs and doing the talk.
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B
Even if you're talking one on one, you're still doing it all.
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. But Just some of the, like, the sort of conversations that I was having where, you know, everyone was sort of, we're all so different, but we all experience the same things. We've all experienced the same way that we're treated. We're all gaslit by medical professionals and sort of having these open spaces. And we were having conversations about, like, oh, this is when a doctor was with me. And, oh, but this is when one was good with me. And the sort of, like, exchange of knowledge that happens in these sorts of little spaces is really, really important. Like, a couple of the people that I was talking to specifically have been into theater as well, and I'm into theater. And I was sort of discussing about how RSD really affected me when I was doing it. And one of the guys was like, what's that? And just sort of had a conversation with him about RSD has been diagnosed autistic for nearly 10 years and has never heard of RSD. But my God, as he felt it and we were sort of talking about it and he was like, wow, that's. That's so good that I now have a name for that feeling. And I really hope that that guy goes away and sort of has that moment where he feels RSD and goes, I name you. I have power over you now. Rather than just feeling like at the whim of it or confused by it or just being sort of like bombarded by a feeling and going, I don't know what this is. I don't feel like I can talk to anybody about this feeling because they'll just think I'm a crazy person. Rather than just sort of going, do you feel like this? Oh, you do? Oh, I'm not alone. Like, that's really, really important. Like, that's really helped me doing this and having these sorts of conversations that we have where, you know, so much of my sort of personal experience of doing this show, I don't realize things and some saying them out loud half of the time. And, like, I'm learning about myself while just having these sorts of conversations. And I think that's sort of the main takeaway that I've got. And I think we'll take a break here because when we come back, we need to talk about how gaining agency and knowledge is power is so, so key with self advocating and also advocating for others. So don't go anywhere. Lovely people. We will be right back. This is a neurodivergent experience. Public announcement. If you live in England and you or a loved one is waiting for an autism or adhd assessment, you don't have to wait years. RTN Diagnostics is now part of the NHS Right to Choose scheme, which means if your local wait for a consultant led autism or ADHD assessment is more than 18 weeks, you can choose RTN instead and it won't cost you a penny. Jordan chose RTN for his own family because their care and attention to detail were second to none. They didn't just diagnose autism and adhd, they looked at the full picture, including pda, ocd, anxiety and more. The team is friendly, neuroaffirming and comprises many neurodivergent individuals, so they truly understand. Getting started is simple. Download the GP referral letter and questionnaire from the link in our show notes, take those to your GP and ask for a referral to RTN diagnostics. If approved, RTN will be in touch within eight weeks to begin your assessment. Remember, this only applies in England and some exclusions do apply. RTN is not currently able to accept referrals for child ADHD assessments, so check the details before you start RTN diagnostics, helping you get the answers you deserve without the wait. Welcome back to the Neurodivergent Experience. Simon Scott with the one and only returning Mr. Jordan James. He's back.
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B
Yo, yo, yo.
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A
Hello, welcome. A boomerang. And we've been discussing advocacy, our journeys and also just how important self advocacy is for not only yourself, but for others as well. And one of the things that you were talking about before the show with me, Jordan, is why knowledge is power and it's so, so true.
- [26:05]
B
Yeah. I mean, when, when I first got diagnosed, it wasn't really something that I was particularly interested in knowing more about. I was kind of, you know, trying to figure out myself, you know, so I wasn't really looking at, like, oh, how are other people autistic? I mean, I did all of that, you know, in the process of finding out I was autistic, I was like, oh, yeah, I do that, I do that, that, you know, this person does that, I do that and you know, and, and then I would, was doing that thing of, you know, watching TV shows or, or movies and I'm like, oh, that person's very similar to me and that person's very similar to me and oh, maybe they're autistic, you know, like, like I am and oh, I think I'm autistic, like that, like doing that comparison thing that we all do in every part of life of, you know, can I sing as good as that person?
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A
Where do I fit in this, yeah.
- [27:01]
B
You know, it's, it's never, oh, I'm as good as me. It's am I, as am I like other people? You know, because I think we're all looking, you know, to fit in somewhere, especially when we've had a life where we've been ostracized and we don't believe we fit anywhere. So it was, I was looking for, for the, the fellow Lego pieces to connect myself to whether it was in real life or whether it was through representation of me in media. And that was, for me, that was my knowledge was, was, oh, this is autism. This is what it does to you. And then it started getting into a negative thing, which I've talked about before, where I started like, you know, hating and resenting my autism that lived within me like some weird gremlin, you know, and obviously, you know, the photography happened and I, I realized that I got really good really quickly because of the autism. The autism. The tissue and yeah, the tism and that I don't have autism, that I am autistic and it is me and it is who I am. I am neurodivergent. And it's, it's really interesting because as soon as I started realizing that, then I suddenly got really, really interested and that's when I went deep dive. So I would read books after books and I started reading Dr. Luke Bearden's books, which, which were a huge influence. And Steve Silverman's book, as, as I've said before, was a huge influence for me to feel better about myself and understand myself in comparison to others. Because I don't think that there's anything wrong with comparing as long as you don't feel bad about it. But I, I started getting really, really interested in. Okay, so I, I, I, I'm not a neuroscientist, but I do know a lot about neuroscience. You know, it is one of my special interests. It is part of my special, in my main special interest, which is evolution. I have studied to a very high degree how our brains evolved. It's that, that has been throughout my life. So that's not like a new thing. What was new about that was I was looking at how my brain evolved to be autistic and how that affects the things that I do every single day. And obviously the big thing, the big discovery for me was synaptic pruning. Now we're not here to talk about synaptic pruning. I'm going to do a whole episode on that. I'm planning that. So look Forward to that. It's going to be amazing. But go and look at my post. I put my hypothesis out the other day. It did really well. A lot of people really, really love it. A lot of people had little tweaks to it, and I found them really interesting. Some people were just assholes, so go fuck yourself. But I, I don't. I don't mind people disagreeing if they're really nice about it and say, well, actually, I think it might be this. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I had really lovely discussions. It was very amicable. One lady was talking about, like, trauma through DNA and how that affects synaptic pruning, that it wasn't just evolution, that it was the. And I. And I was like, wow, it's like.
- [30:18]
A
The body keeps the score, sort of thinking, yeah, it's interesting.
- [30:21]
B
Yeah. And I was like, wow, that's really interesting, you know, and. And I like having open discussions because it is. And this was the bit that was annoying me. It's a hypothesis, which is not fact. It's not a theory. It hasn't even got to the stage of being tested. It's just an idea based around a large amount of evidence that I have collected over the last five years. And then obviously my experience with neurology, which, again, I don't have a degree in neurology, it's in it. But I do have an amazing brain that is capable of learning everything that I really want to learn, and I put my mind to it. It is an ability and I love it. I don't need a piece of paper to have an idea. It's an idea, people, and I think it's a good one. But we have a baby brain. We have synaptic pathway connections, which is a fact. And the fact that I know this and the fact that I can talk about this, that gives me power. And it doesn't give me power over others. I don't want power over others. It gives me power over myself. It makes me feel that you can't tell me about me. And that's the biggest problem when it comes to the medical model of autism, the medical model of ADHD and dyslexia and dyspraxia, dyscalculia and EDS and all. And all the things, all the things that are part of just one brain, which is my brain. It's all part of my brain. It's not split into different sections. It is just my entire brain. And I. I don't. I don't listen to others tell me who I Am ever. No one goes, well, you're this or you're that or you don't do this or you don't do that. I'm like, you don't know me. And the reason I know you don't know me is because I do know me. I have so much self awareness because I have looked into it scientifically, psychiatrically, neurology, neurologically. I have studied myself. I have also had many lots of experience of, you know, people talking to me and thousands of people messaging me and emailing me and commenting on Facebook and, you know, through doing the book as well, the amount of people that I was able to communicate with who gave their experiences. And my brain just calculates it all up and goes, okay, I know about neurodivergence. You know, not to mention the fact that I'm a guest lecturer on Dr. Luke Bearden's postgraduate course. Like, he would trust me enough to be able to talk about autism to his class. It was like, yeah, you know, I. Because he is a doctor, he is qualified, but he. He knew that I didn't need those qualifications to better talk about it because he said that he learns from me. And I'm not saying that as a brag. And I really hate the fact that in my own head, we all learn from each other. Thank you. I learned from him.
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A
Yeah. We all share information and perspective.
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B
I learn from you that sort of.
- [33:57]
A
Like, exchange of knowledge is its synergy. We're all exchanging energy and experience and perspective, and we're all sort of coming to the similar sorts of conclusions within the space. Like, you can see it with certain, like, advocacy and stuff, especially with the sort of people that I'm reading. But I want to just sort of share an experience that I had over the weekend, Jordan. And you'll be proud of me because I was proud of myself in that it has taken me a really long time to openly discuss with people things that I struggle with. And I was watching a band and there was a fella that I was stood next to in my group, lovely bloke. He wouldn't stop talking to me while the music was playing. And I actually had. And there's been previous years where I've been with him, where I've not said anything and I've just sort of gone, yep, yep, not heard a word that he said. And it's not because I've got bad hearing. If anything, it's the opposite. When there's so much music and there's so many people around me, and then you've got Somebody trying to have a conversation in your ear and they're sort of like shouting over the music and everything, and it all just becomes a. A noise mess. It exhausted me trying to give it energy to. To try and focus on what he was saying with all of this going on around me this year, dude, the first time that he did it, I turned to him, I put my hand on him and I went, john, I said, I love you. I'm not trying to be rude. I went, I can't hear a word you're saying. And I really like to just watch and listen to the music. So when the music's finished, I'll talk to you all day long, mate.
- [35:25]
B
I said, nice.
- [35:26]
A
Just sort of leave me in my space.
- [35:29]
B
It's advocating for yourself.
- [35:30]
A
And he went, absolutely. Make no problem. And it caught on, dude. Everyone in the group started going, I'm actually really tired. I'm not going to come to this band. I need an hour. And that sort of me just doing that. Other people then started to almost do it for themselves. And one of the nights that we came back to the camp, it's like 11 o'. Clock. Carys had been over for the day because Chapel Rowan was playing. It was amazing. And I then walked her back to where the bus was, came back, watched a band, and I was tired, dude. I went back to the camp and everyone's trying to talk to me. And I went, guys, I went, I'm here, but I'm not here. This is when I would have quiet time at home with my headphones on. So I'm just going to sit with my chair five feet away from the camp. I'm here, I'm listening, but I'm not involved. And everyone went, all right. Sigh. No problem, dude. It has taken me such a long time to be able to do that, and I have come back from the festival with way more energy. I had more energy while I was there because I advocated for myself. I went, I need five minutes. I need five minutes, guys. And that's taken me such a long time to not only accept that I need it, but to ask for it.
- [36:42]
B
And why? Why do you know that you need it?
- [36:46]
A
Because I know myself and I accept myself.
- [36:50]
B
Yeah, because you gained the knowledge.
- [36:52]
A
Because I've got the knowledge. Because I now know when I'm feeling all of these sorts of feelings and I'm getting overwhelmed or I'm sensory overloaded. I know I need to take a step away, but I can't do that without sort of communicating it. And it was so helpful to be able to do that, because then in different moments, I noticed other people starting to do it as well. There was, like, a guy that was sort of like, with me most of the festival, and I said to him, oh, do you want to go and watch this band with me? And he went, I would love to. And he went, but I'm actually sort of just a bit jaded at the moment. And I went, well, do you a favor, dude. I really want to go see them. So why don't we sit on the other side of the field where we can hear them, but we're not sort of on it? Oh, yeah, dude, I'd love that. And he kind of came away and he went, I'm so, so glad that we did that, because I loved the band that we saw, but I just couldn't be in the tent with it. Awesome, dude. No problem. So we. We still did exactly what we wanted to do, but in a way that was accommodating for not only him, but for me.
- [37:56]
B
Exactly. Reasonable adjustments, reasonable accommodations for yourself are one of the biggest steps because you. You will find that the world around you will either make or not make those reasonable adjustments and accommodations. They. They should make those, but they don't always do it. But that's on them to do it. That. That is out of your control. Once you've told them what you need, you don't then have control of how.
- [38:23]
A
They do it, whether you get it or not.
- [38:24]
B
Yeah. But what you do have control of, where's within your circle of control, is how you feel about yourself and about how you can advocate for yourself. And again, I. I definitely think that it comes with a lot of time. I've. I used to do coaching. I don't do it. It was too much for me. But I used to do coaching, and one of the things I would work on in the coaching was getting somebody to at least admit to others that they are autistic or adhd, whatever they were, or whatever they wanted to admit to. It's funny because just quickly I said most people were quite happy to admit adhd, but not everyone's happy to admit autistic.
- [39:07]
A
I think we should do an episode about that.
- [39:09]
B
I think we did. We did1. Autism vs. ADHD and how people feel about it. But we definitely need to do another one.
- [39:15]
A
Definitely come back to it.
- [39:16]
B
Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of. It's more socially acceptable going, oh, my dhd. It's really fun. It's all motistic. I must be broken. And it isn't like that. And it's sad. But anyway, so I'm just going ADHD on you. Yeah, I can admit that. You know, it's fine. But don't ask me if I'm autistic. It might be a different answer. Yeah, but it was just getting people to admit it. And I never got to this point with this. With this lovely, lovely lady, but she'd been recently diagnosed and, and she hadn't told anyone at her work. And I said, I would love to get you to the point where you're. Where you wear a T shirt, say, I'm autistic and proud. And then you just take. Because I wear those T shirts. I've got pictures of me and wearing them. And I wore, I wore them when I went to meet Dr. Luke Bearden for the first time. He was like, that T shirt is awesome. I was like, yeah, no, killing it. But I would love to. For her to be able to have the pride in herself. I don't know if she's done that since, you know, it didn't happen when I was coaching her. But, you know, it was. It was a nice goal. Like, she didn't fail the goal because it was. It was a silly goal, but it was a nice goal. And it's. It's always good to have something, even if you feel like the target is unrealistic, just even trying to get to that goal. You've literally made steps towards. But just, Just admitting to yourself like, I'm autistic or like the girl in that assembly, you know, just being like, that's it. I. Because. And. And there is nothing quite. And I think this, this is why my. My page became popular, is because. And I think you said this, and Pickle said, most people say this. I'm the first time they've. Or the first person they've ever come across that said anything positive about being autistic.
- [41:08]
A
Couldn't agree more.
- [41:09]
B
Anything. And I. And I. And I'm not toxic with it. I don't be like, oh, it's a superpower. It's the best thing ever.
- [41:14]
A
No, you're real with it.
- [41:15]
B
It's like, oh, well, actually I can do these amazing, amazing things because I have the alternative neurotype, but also it. My day up sometimes because of environment and tiredness and pda, as we, you know, is my biggest disability. But it's like if you just talk about the negative all the time, if you just focus on the negative, you just focus on the darkness. You will just live in darkness and it will get darker and Darker and darker. You know, it's like I said, I hit depression in 2018 because I hated my autism, as it were. And it just got so bad. And then as soon as I felt that little bit of positivity and then gained that little bit more knowledge, it was. It was like, you know, a stone falling down a mountain, picking up momentum, pick up a bit of snow, and all of a sudden it's a freaking avalanche of me just feeling better about myself. And one of those things that I can feel better about is, like you said, accepting my disabilities, not seeing them as a problem, not seeing them as I'm broken or I'm less than, or I don't deserve good things just because I'm disabled. Just being able to go, I'm disabled. And that's fine. It's fine. It's not a bad thing to be disabled. It's just something that I am. Whether it's I have mental disabilities or I have physical disabilities. I'm not saying, oh, yeah, they're all great and I love them. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that I can make adjustments in my life to mean that those things aren't as bad as I had made them out.
- [43:00]
A
Yeah, absolutely. And I think one of the big sort of perspective changes that has really happened with that is rather than saying, I have autism, I have disabilities, I am autistic, I am disabled. I've changed it from having to being. You know, it is one of the biggest things that's helped me.
- [43:19]
B
Yeah.
- [43:19]
A
It's who I am. Yeah. And. And sort of one of the things that I often found is I talk to counselors and they go, oh, you're very self aware. I was like, I know. Why do you think I'm here?
- [43:28]
B
Yeah. I went for therapy because I knew I needed it because I knew too much.
- [43:34]
A
But one of the things that I've. I'm so sort of like, grateful for where I am in my life now is I like all of who I am. I don't just like, you know, me. And then I go, oh, and then there's the autism. It's. I actually really like being autistic. I really love that feel of, like the glimmer of a special interest. And I actually really enjoy being around neurodivergent people. I love their company.
- [44:00]
B
All my friends, man, every single one of my friends.
- [44:03]
A
All of my friends are neurodivergent. Like, not even all of them. And like, when I went to this festival and was just hanging out with some people that I've not seen for, like, four or five years. It was like, we just picked up where we left off.
- [44:16]
B
So many times it happens to me. Like, I love it because life gets in the way.
- [44:20]
A
Yeah.
- [44:21]
B
And you just pick up where you left off. It's. Yeah.
- [44:24]
A
And it was like, I've not been in this field with all these guys for four years. I've. Life's got in the way. I used to go with them every year and had not been for four years, dude. I rocked up in the field and I put my tent on the ground and it was like four years hadn't even. It was like, I just left yesterday and I'd just come back and.
- [44:40]
B
So good.
- [44:40]
A
It was such an awesome energy, dude. I absolutely loved it. And. And just sort of really leaning into what people like and what people are interested in, Especially when every single person that was there has a special interest in music. Oh, I was just so in my element, man. I just absolutely loved it. And, like, the whole sort of mantra that everyone had while we were doing stuff, it was like, oh, I'm going for a coffee. Does anybody want one? Oh, I'm. Oh, I'll help you put your tent up. And everybody kept saying, team vibes. It's just team vibes. Somebody needs that. It's team vibes, guys like that. We had two younger people in our sort of group, and they were like, oh, I really want to go and see this act. And nobody was bothered. And I went, I like finding new music. I'll take you guys. And I stood with them on the, like, the viewing platform and actually had a great time. But I then sort of bonded with these two people I'd never had a sort of relationship and connection with now. And I now feel like I've got a little bit of a friendship with two sort of people I never would have had a connection with otherwise. So I remember these kids being like six or seven, and now they're 17, 18. And it was really nice to sort of go, don't worry, guys, I'll go with you. And their dad, who I was with was like, oh, sigh. I really appreciated you sort of just stepping in for me there because I had a bit of, like, a headache and I just didn't. Didn't feel like I could face it. I was like, don't worry, John. I got you. And it was just team vibes. I loved it.
- [46:02]
B
Do you know what's so good about you speaking the way you're speaking and. And how active you are and, like, you like, you're so much different from, from how you used to be. So different from how it used to be. But the wonderful thing about you going out and being gregarious and, you know, meeting these people and having all these social moments, but then knowing how to advocate for yourself, it will show people that, yes, there are autistic people that are very, very much, oh, I just like this one thing, or I just want to hang out with this one person or I just want to be by myself. But I would say that most autistic people especially, and obviously ADHD as well, most people who are listening to this podcast who, you know, who are like us, they might doubt themselves that they're neurodivergent. You know, I know that the, you know, Sylvia, and I can say this because I have asked her and she's okay with me talking about it. Sylvia still struggles even though she has the piece of paper, you know, the, like I said, the autistic experience really, that book really, really helped her understand that she wasn't alone. I remember her reading it and just going, oh, oh, it's not just me then.
- [47:26]
A
I have that experience a lot now with people where they just, yeah, it's.
- [47:30]
B
Oh, wait a minute, I do. I thought that was just me. I thought there was something wrong with me.
- [47:35]
A
Thought it was me and everyone in my close knit family.
- [47:37]
B
Yeah. And everyone I've ever met. And what it does when, when people listen to you speak the way you do, how I see it is that so many people be like, oh, I didn't realize doing things like that.
- [47:53]
A
I.
- [47:53]
B
Thought that made me not autistic. Like it, it's, it's giving people who don't fit into the DSM categories you know, directly or maybe they don't meet the full criteria for a diagnosis. Maybe they've been for a diagnosis, got told they're not autistic.
- [48:12]
A
Highly masking people ever.
- [48:13]
B
Super highly.
- [48:14]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [48:15]
B
Because I certainly know a lot of people that still believe that they are neurotypical and brother, they are not. They are absolutely not. But it's not down to me to tell them that I, I just spar and go along with it. And I go, oh, in their own, yeah. And I, and I go, oh, yeah, you know, I like it's their journey, you know, and I offer them the book and they're oh, yeah, I'll read that. And then they just never do because PDA. But I do 100% recommend, you know, if you want to get accommodations, if you want to be able to make accommodations for yourself or you want to make, you want to make accommodations for your loved ones or your friends or maybe someone at your work that you know is neurodivergent and you're in charge of them, maybe you want to make accommodations for them. You need to learn, if you run your own business, you should learn about neurodivergence from neurodivergent people. Speaking candidly, there's nothing better than this podcast. There is nothing better than, you know, the, the Facebook groups that are run by neurodivergent people, the Facebook pages, you know, the Instagram, the, the Tick Tock, the real Tick Tock ones, not the fake ones we talked about. Yeah, just, just any sort of social media where, where it's positive, but it's real. You know that you, you can find information out there. And I 100% reading Dr. Luke Bearden's books and if you really, really want to know, and you really, really want to find out about autism, go and do his course. It's a great course. He is a great, great teacher. He's a great man. So yeah, if, if you really want to know about it, then get the right sources, find the right people to learn from. And if you're listening to this, well, you're doing the right thing.
- [50:13]
A
Yeah, beautifully said, my friend. Well, I think we'll take a little bit of a break there and when we come back, I really want to know, Jordan, how you've helped advocate for your family and your loved ones when discussing about doing it. So we'll talk about that after the break. Have you ever felt stuck in patterns that don't serve you, struggled with stress, or wanted to connect more deeply with yourself? Then I have to introduce you to a friend of the podcast and Ashley Bentley of integrated coaching, breathwork and hypnotherapy. Ashley is a highly experienced clinical hypnotherapist and coach specializing in working with neurodivergent minds. Through a unique blend of integrative coaching, breathwork and hypnotherapy, Ashley helps people rewire subconscious patterns, regulate their nervous systems, step into more empowered versions of themselves. Whether you're dealing with addiction, anxiety, burnout, or struggles with self acceptance, Ashley offers practical and science backed tools tailored just for you. Her unique methods combine neuroscience, storytelling, subconscious transformation to create real, lasting change. Jordan and I can personally attest to the profound and transformative effects of her sessions, which have been life changing. She does all of these sessions online, meaning she can work with you no matter where you are in the world. If you're ready to break free from old patterns and start living with more clarity, confidence and connection. Go to Bit ly Ashleynde to book a free consultation or learn more. Welcome back to the Neurodivergent Experience. Simon Scott, as always with Mr. Jordan James. And we've been discussing advocating and self advocacy, but you touched on it in the last section, Jordan, which was talking about, you know, advocating for your loved ones. And you have an experience which I don't have, which is having children. So how did you, you know, being an advocate help your kids?
- [52:19]
B
Well, it's, it's interesting because, you know, before I started the, the Facebook advocacy, obviously I, I got diagnosed autistic, but I always knew I was adhd. I didn't really understand that as neurodivergence. I'd never heard the term and, but I always understood it as, as just being very hyper and not being able to concentrate, you know, and I, I could definitely see it in my kids. Sophie, very outwardly, Simon very inwardly, you know, he would, he wouldn't be able to stick to one thing for too long, but his curiosity was limitless. Like he just wanted to know about everything. But it wasn't one thing, it was everything. Sophie, oh, she would dance, she would sing, she would want to do drama and she was so hyper. You know, she's outwardly energetic and oh, just like trying to keep the reins on her was a 24 hour job. But also both, both my kids were runners, dude. Like, that was a scary time. Oh, no, yeah, they, they were just. I had to hold their hands all the time because like that, that was a, that was a, an idea at one point until I got shamed out of it.
- [53:46]
A
I just now have the image of you with your two kids like on.
- [53:49]
B
A chariot as they run a skateboard as they just pull me along. But no, it was, you know, it was always there. It's just, I didn't know about it. I didn't know what that was.
- [54:03]
A
Yeah.
- [54:03]
B
But I would always, I would always go into the schools and I would always talk to teachers and teachers would say, oh, they, they're not reaching this goal or they're not reaching that goal. And at the time I turn around and go. And they go, oh, we're worried. And I go, well, I'm not. Why, why are you worried? They go, oh, because normal, you know, they wouldn't say normal, but they, they, they, they said normally kids would reach this, they'd be, you know, reading at this level or they'd be speaking at this level. Or they'd be, you know, doing this at this level or, you know, this age. Because obviously we. We had it with where, like, the midwife would, like, come visit after. After the birth and stuff like this, because then they do, like, developmental checks. And, you know, they'd be like, oh, they're. They're. They're really advanced in this. But, like, they're not advanced at that, by the way. Like, no one ever spotted that my kids were autistic.
- [55:04]
A
Yeah.
- [55:07]
B
I thought was, like, really, really interesting. A lot of they. They did spot that. That they might be dyslexic, but at the time, I was like, I don't. I would imagine that they are, because again, I. I knew I was dyslexic as well. But again, it wasn't really something I cared about. I was like, okay, so I can't spell that well. That's what spell checks for. But obviously now I know it's a lot more than just spelling. But it wasn't. I was advocating for my kids as this is a parent from fricking day dot, dude. Even without knowing they're neurodivergent. Because I just didn't see what the big deal was that my kids couldn't do what those other kids were doing. I'd be like, well, just give them time. I'm sure they'll get there. So I was always super patient with my kids because they didn't walk at the. You know, when they allegedly should have. They definitely didn't talk like they allegedly should have. And it was like, oh, your kids should be having, like, little mini conversations with you. And I was like, but they don't. And they were like, oh, yeah, but they should. I'm like, they don't. But they don't. I said, you know, and like, who cares? Like, I'm sure they'll get there. And, like, it just. It wasn't something that I stressed about or I worried about, but I was obsessed with my kids. I. I spent every waking minute I could hanging out with my kids because that was one of the things that I didn't get was. Was a dad that spent a lot of time with me. He was too interested in his computers all the time. And so I made an effort to do so much stuff with my kids, engage with my kids, have conversations with my kids, even though I was not getting anything back. I would talk to them constantly, and I would show them things, and I would take them on trips, and I'd be like, this is this and this is that. And I would Read to them every single night. I would read to my kids and I would make up stories with, they're called detective dog stories. And it was constant interaction. And I thought, well, that's how I'm going to develop my kids, is just by being patient. And it's weird because now, now I know that they're neurodivergent. That's the advice that I give to most parents, is just be patient. They might not reach those milestones in the time that, you know, they are expected to. But if you think about it, neurodivergent people, we're on a different track. If it's a train track, we're on a different track. So if we're heading to a direction and there are two train tracks, there's a neurotypical train track and there's a neurodivergent train track. The neurotypical train track is straightforward. It's direct, straight all the way, no stops. The neurodivergent train track still might end up getting to the same direction, the same destination. Sorry, but it has so many curves and crossroads, it goes back on itself. Sometimes there's regression when it comes to us. Sometimes we make some and bounce. Many, many side quests, many stops, many, many passengers. It's, it's, it's, it's a spaghetti mess of a train track, but it's our train track and each of us have our own train track. And some of us might never get to that destination of, of where we were hoping to be. Because I think as parents, you've got to take expectations off the table. You, you've got, you've got to not go, oh, I, I wanted a kid that would do this, or I wish that I'd had a kid that would do that, or I wish my. Because you could say that about any kid. You, you could be like, oh, I really, really wanted grandkids. And then, you know, you find out that, you know, that your, your kid might be gay and they don't want kids or that they aren't gay. They just don't want.
- [59:09]
A
They can't have kids. Yeah.
- [59:10]
B
Or they can't have kids. And, and it's, it's like, well, life doesn't always go the way you expect it. So I think the, one of the ways that you can be a better parent in order to then advocate for your kids is, is just don't have expectations and don't let other people put expectations on your kids. Goals is fine like having a, a goal, a future goal. At one point I would you know, be nice if you could do this and you can work towards things because you know that's how you improve at life is by working towards things. But if you start pushing them too hard, it's going to have a massively negative effect, especially aba. ABA is fucking sick, mate. It is absolutely crazy bad. So if you want to advocate for your kids, you need knowledge, just like we said in the last section. You need to understand neurodivergence from a neurodivergent perspective. But remember, if you've got neurodivergent kids, either you or your partner or both are going to be neurodivergent. Argue with me or you. Like I'm. Okay, I'm, I, I, I do me. You don't have to agree with me. Maybe it's a recessant gene and it's come from people. I mean, I, like I said, you figure your thing out. But it is very, very, very likely that you are neurodivergent and you don't know that. So it'd be great to learn about yourself because there's nothing better for my kids than I have ever done is understand and help myself. I've helped myself and that's how I've become a better dad to be able to help my kids. But as far as like going into schools and stuff, like I was, I was doing that before I knew they were neurodivergent. But I was doubly doing that when I found out they were. I would go and sit down and I would not let the teacher tell me what was wrong with my kid or, you know, that was a bad thing. I don't want to hear it's a bad thing. I don't want to hear your negativity. I want to hear what you're going to do to help my kid. There is so much gaslighting, so much negativity put on parents put on these children when in fact it's actually the school's fault. It's the schools aren't making the correct accommodations. And I remember meeting, I met many Senko teachers training, but I remember meeting one after, after she read my book, she contacted me and she said, I need your advice because I want to help the kids that I'm in charge of the Senko kids, I want to help them, but I'm getting the worst pushback from the parents of all the other kids saying that these Senko kids are getting special treatment. Wow, what sort of a fucked up individual sees a disabled child and goes, why can't my kid get what they're getting, well, maybe is that they're not disabled and they don't need it. That's like. That's like your kid goes to another kid's birthday party, but you buy your kid a present, you know, so they don't feel left out. That's not how life works.
- [62:54]
A
I literally had this at Leeds, right? I was stood in the queue for the disabled toilet and these two drunk girls came up and they were like, oh, we want to use this toilet because we can't walk to the next one because we're too drunk. I was like, well, people that are in this one actually can't walk, so bugger off. And they were like, oh, you're being rude. I was like, no, you're.
- [63:15]
B
Oh, yeah, I love it when rude people call us rude.
- [63:20]
A
Put the Lambrini down to the loo. So, yeah, yeah. Do you know what, dude? I think you sum it up so well because I. I look back at my school experience and my parents always used to talk about how, like, I was marmite to teachers. They either loved me or they hated me. And they could tell within a second of sitting down how it was going to go. And I really, I. I don't like to have regrets. I don't want to look back and sort of pontificate about, oh, how things could be different because I wouldn't be who I am if. If I hadn't had the journey that I'd had. And the only thing that I kind of look back on now is I don't think to myself, oh, I wish my parents knew that I was neurodivergent. I wish my parents knew that they were neurodivergent because the sort of ripple effects, the knockdown effects that that would have had on my life would have not only if I had a lot more accommodations, but I would have been taught how to do it for myself. Yeah, so there. That's the only thing that I kind of look back on in my, like, quote unquote school career is that when my parents were confused as to why teachers were the way they were with me and some weren't, and why I was good at certain things and they weren't good at certain things, and that's the only thing that I wish I could change, is that I could go back and go. Both my parents are neurodivergent. That is very clearly obvious to me and now very clearly obvious to them. I wish they just had that information when they were going into all these fights because they just didn't know what to say or do or how to sort of defend themselves or ask for what they needed or what I needed. We were just always confused and trusted the word of quote unquote professionals over ourselves. Yeah, that's the only thing that I would change.
- [65:07]
B
It's amazing how much like if you do enough research before you go into like a school meeting or a CAMS meeting or just go and see a doctor in general, it's amazing like if you do enough research, if you, if you have enough knowledge and of course it doesn't always work, but it's better that you, you do it than you don't. But understanding, you know, about your own neurodivergence, it helps that prep because that the prep is the important bit. I remember when I first went for my, to see my gp, so it wasn't my official assessment, it was, you know, that stage. You guys see the GP go, I think, I think I'm autistic. And then they send you, you know, then they do the referral. And I walked in, I had a novel's worth of information that I'd printed out. I was literally carrying it under my arm of like to, to say this is how I, this is why I think that I'm autistic because I had so much information that the backed my self diagnosis as it were because I felt like, yeah, I'm definitely autistic, like that, that answers like pretty much every question I've ever had. But obviously, you know, you want to, you want to go for the assessment if you do, you know, not everyone has to self diagnosis is, is totally valid as far as I'm concerned.
- [66:33]
A
Me too.
- [66:33]
B
Because me getting that piece of paper didn't make me more or less autistic. It just gave me a piece of.
- [66:38]
A
Paper I didn't walk out of. The doctors like, oh, I'm healed.
- [66:41]
B
It basically it helped me get the accommodations that I needed at work. So yeah, I had so much prep and I, and I had that same prep when I recently had an occupational health meeting for my work because of certain changes to my job that I felt uncomfortable with. But I still like their law because of the industry that I work in, in the security industry, there's been certain changes to the SIA license that you now have to do certain training in order to then get your license next time. And mine's due in about a couple of years. So my company wanted me to get the accommodations so when I could, when I did do that training, I could get accommodations within that training of accommodations that I needed not accommodations that they think that I needed. So it was all very positive. And then when I spoke, the occupational health guy, dude, he was awesome. Like, he was so good. But it's because I know what I'm talking about is because I was like, and my PDA makes me do this. My PDA makes me struggle with this, and my alexithymia makes me struggle with this, and my RSD makes me struggle with this. So it's. And it doesn't. It's not only like, oh, I can then help myself, or I can help my kids. When it comes to, like, authorities, just. Just imagine it's. It's your kid, they've been diagnosed, and they just feel crappy. And it's so common. It's so common.
- [68:20]
A
I had it.
- [68:21]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [68:22]
A
28. I felt crap.
- [68:25]
B
It's so common for your kids to feel crappy. So I imagine you have the enough. Enough knowledge to be able to go, no, it's. It's fine that, that you don't react when somebody gives you a present. Like, that's fine. It's. You're okay.
- [68:44]
A
You're still. You still deserve gifts. If you don't react, you will still.
- [68:48]
B
Get gifts just because you don't outwardly express your appreciations in the neurotypical manner. You can have alexithymia. It's fine. Having a word to put to the different things that we do, I think is incredibly productive. A lot of people be like, oh, you're just labeling. And it's like, well, it's not. It's giving a name. I can say, I'm wearing clothes. These are all clothes. Everything I wear is clothes. So do I need to specifically tell you what clothes I'm wearing? Well, I don't need to, but it's nice to be able to go, well, this is my T shirt. This is my jumper. This is my. These are my shorts. This is my socks. Each item of clothing needs a name. So I can say, oh, my socks are too loose, rather than my clothes are too loose. It's my socks that are the. That are affecting me today. Or my T shirt's too tight, or my short string.
- [70:02]
A
It's like, somebody go, what size T shirt do you wear exactly?
- [70:06]
B
It's good to have a name for something in order to describe to others why you're doing the exact thing you're doing. Because just by saying, oh, it's because I'm neurodivergent, that's good enough for me because I know about it. So if someone said, oh, I'm really struggling to talk right now because I'm neurodivergent. I know, I didn't know. Oh, that's because of alexithymia or that's because of anxiety. Like to me, I don't actually need the exact name of something to know that somebody is struggling to speak. I just accept that that is part of being neurodivergent. But one is, it's helpful for them to understand that so they can have a name to put with it. But also it's really helpful to be able to explain to others who don't understand neurodivergence in any detail. And then they, that little kid, you could have an 8 year old being able to advocate for themselves at their school. So they could then go to their friends at school and be like, oh, I don't really talk a lot because I, I have alexithymia. It's part of my neurodivergence and it means that I struggle to do this or oh, when somebody tells me that, you know, my drawing isn't very good, even if it might not be as good as other people, I have rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria. Therefore, it hurts way more than if, if you told someone who's neurotypical. Because we take things so personally. Imagine just a little kid being able to have that knowledge. So as, as a parent, one of the best things I've been able to do is teach my kids about, you know, the different things that we can put a name to because then they can feel better about their own actions and they don't feel so crappy about themselves and then they can advocate. And my daughter does it. She's literally a mentor. She's working right now. She's had three clients yesterday, she's got two clients today.
- [72:08]
A
Wow.
- [72:09]
B
She's a neurodivergent mentor. She's helping people. There's Americans across the pond, you know, she's helping people all over the world by actually mentoring, not to mention through her page as well, which is obviously Sophie James on Facebook. It's amazing that I can pass that on to my kids and then they can advocate for themselves. And my son, he's helped his girlfriend understand that she's neurodivergent, which has then helped her understand that her whole family is neurodivergent. And all of a sudden this whole family that didn't, you know, that didn't realize they were neurodivergent are all of a sudden going, ah, okay. And she's got sisters and brother in laws and nieces and nephews and it's.
- [73:03]
A
Like lighting a match, isn't it? It just, the fuse just, it goes away and yeah, explosion happens somewhere else.
- [73:09]
B
Yeah. And it's like, oh, that's why they do that. Well, that's why they're like that. Or that's why I'm like that. And it's where you got pay it forward. That's what it is, man.
- [73:18]
A
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
- [73:19]
B
Advocacy is so powerful and it's so, so important and I'm so flipping glad that I can do it with you, my brother.
- [73:30]
A
I appreciate that, man. And I've learned so much from, from doing this with you. And I feel like I've got such knowledge that like my life has improved so much, dude, like so, so much in, in, in, in so many different ways. I've made connections with people that I've always sort of wanted and you know, I, I feel so grateful, but I've made it happen. You know, it's. It's not just happened by accident. I've had to make it happen by being kinder to myself and accepting myself and learning more about who I am and, and adding to that with, with, you know, passing this knowledge on to your kids as well. You know, if you start them young, by the time the my age or your age, they're going to be masters of it. The sooner that they learn this stuff, the longer, the more time that they have in life to, to research and understand and grow with the knowledge rather than grow and then learn and have to go back and, and work on it and you know, it's such a, such a head start that, you know, if I'd known this stuff when I was 9, 10 years old, dude, like.
- [74:30]
B
But just, just imagine that, that it was just common knowledge that we just understood and accepted that it's hereditary. It is part of who we are. We will, you know, we will pass it on, you know, through our kids. Our kids will be neurodivergent just as much as that they will have the same color hair or the same color eyes or you know, the same color skin, that we will pass these, these, these genetic markers onto our children and they will then pass them on to their children. So imagine if we just accept that and you going to have grandkids. You will already one step ahead of everyone going, well, I know for a fact that my grandkids will be neurodivergent because my son is neurodivergent, his girlfriend is neurodivergent, my daughter's Neurodivergent and her boyfriend is neurodiver. So if they end up having kids, those kids will definitely be neurodivergent. So we will, we will know and understand and be able to accommodate and help them grow. From day one.
- [75:44]
A
We're ready.
- [75:46]
B
There will be no diagnostic criteria needing to be met to make me go, oh my God, my grandkids are autistic. I already know they will be. And that is so cool. And that will be their kids and then their kids and then their kids. Because, ladies and gentlemen, being neurodivergent is not being a broken human being. It is being a separately and just as importantly, evolved to be different human being.
- [76:16]
A
Wonderfully said, my friend. Wonderfully said. Welcome back. Welcome back, everybody. East back. Yeah. Now. What a, what a brilliant conversation, my friend and I. I've loved it and I feel so proud of you as an advocate and as my bro and, and the, the positivity that you spread with the work that you do. I'm also a little bit proud of me too.
- [76:38]
B
Don't be a little bit. Do a lot better. I am freaking so proud of you, dude. I'm so proud of you. I'm proud of everyone who's out there just, just trying to better themselves and trying to love themselves more because they're so important. One thing I would like to say is that, you know, if anybody does want their young person or if you're a young person listening and you would need mentoring, if you want one on one guidance from a very, very experienced mentor, you can contact Sophie James through her Facebook page and book her as a mentor. And she's very, very reasonably priced. Very reasonably priced.
- [77:24]
A
I've only ever interacted with Sophie through the show and a handful of times and I've always loved a company and I always learned something as well. So definitely check that out. Well, thank you so much for being with us. If you're a first time listener and you made it all the way through to the end, welcome to the tribe. We're so grateful to have you here. And we've got another episode. Our hot topic coming tomorrow. Remember, Ashley Bentley's mindfulness Mondays is so keep your eye on the feed for that. Excited, excited. Remember, you're all wonderful people. Be kind to yourself, Take care and be safe nightly.
- [78:01]
B
Bye.
- [78:05]
A
Thanks for tuning in to the neurodivergent experience. We hope today's episode sparks something for you, whether it's a new idea, a bit of validation or just, just a moment of connection. Remember, new episodes are every week, so Be sure to join us for the next one for more conversations and insights into the neurodivergent experience. If you've enjoyed this podcast, help us grow. You can do that by rating and reviewing this show. Your support makes a huge difference in helping us reach more people who could benefit from these conversations. You can connect with us on social media, find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. Just search for the neurodivergent experience. Thank you again for listening and until next time, take care of yourself. You're not alone in this journey.
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