Nature Heals: How the Outdoors Supports Neurodivergent Minds

Summary

The Neurodivergent Experience

Episode: Nature Heals – How the Outdoors Supports Neurodivergent Minds

Hosts: Jordan James & Simon Scott
Guest: Ashley Bentley
Date: October 1, 2025

---

Overview

This episode explores the profound impact that time in nature has on neurodivergent well-being—particularly for those with Autism and ADHD. Drawing from recent personal experiences and scientific insights, the hosts and guest Ashley Bentley reflect on how the outdoors regulates sensory overload, soothes pain, and offers opportunities for self-acceptance and emotional resilience. The episode covers coping with chronic pain, the restorative power of the natural world, the unique winter challenges for neurodivergent people, and practical rituals for staying connected to nature year-round.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Recent “Neurodivergent Reunion” & The Reality of Plans

(02:47 – 07:03)

• The trio recently met up for the first time in the Lake District, which didn’t go as planned due to chronic pain, illness, and low energy.
• Jordan: Reflected on his progress in handling change without meltdown, thanks in part to Ashley’s support:
  “I didn’t have a meltdown…not a single thing worked out, but it was a good way of testing how far I’ve come with my ability to accept change.” (04:27)
• Ashley: Framed it as an “exercise in acceptance,” echoing the sentiment that plans often shift in unpredictable ways.
  “You want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.” (05:26)

2. The Sensory & Emotional Power of Nature

(07:03 – 11:46)

• Simon: Contrasted stressful city life with the calm of the countryside.
  “Why did I choose city living and the noise and the lights and everything over this? I can’t believe I made that decision consciously. Every day for nearly nine years.” (09:44)
• Jordan: Shared the healing effect of being in nature with limited tech and people, and the solitude of morning walks:
  “…just me and the ducks and the sheep, who are weirdly friendly…” (09:44)
• Simon: Framed nature as “self-regulation and sensory regulation”:
  “Nature isn’t just sort of nice to be in. It is a form of self-regulation, of sensory regulation. It’s how I navigate everyday life.” (10:38)

3. Neurodivergence in Society vs. Nature

(11:46 – 13:49)

• Jordan: Posited that neurodivergent minds are more at home in nature; urban environments activate their struggles.
  “In nature [our sensory] abilities become abilities. As soon as we’re put into any town or city… it becomes a disability.” (11:46)
• Ashley: Affirmed that healing comes from returning to a “natural state.”
  “That’s a really good point… that’s why we get healed when we go out in nature.” (13:46)

4. Nature’s Unexpected Overloads

(14:46 – 16:25)

• Ashley: Described a startling moment when low-flying military jets broke the Lake District’s peace, illustrating how even nature retreats can be disrupted by man-made sensory intrusions.
• Jordan: Noted, “As soon as you add a non-natural element into the equation, somehow it negatively affects us.” (15:44)

5. The Science Behind Nature’s Calming Effects

(16:25 – 19:02)

• Light, circadian rhythms, and physiological links:
  • Sunlight aids serotonin (“the easiest way…is through sunlight”)
  • Connecting with animals boosts oxytocin
• Nature moments, like glimpsing a red squirrel, bring “unexpected little gifts.”

6. Pain, Chronic Illness, and Access to Nature

(21:34 – 24:54)

• Simon: Discusses how pain keeps him indoors and routines fall aside.
• Ashley: Offers practical solutions for severely limited mobility:
  • Simply sitting on a front step or balcony to observe the sunset
  • Expanding one’s horizon visually to calm the nervous system
  • Barefoot grounding for those able, even for short periods:
    “If you can get your bare feet on the ground 15–20 minutes a day… it is really, really advantageous.” (23:00)
• Jordan: Connects barefoot grounding to our evolutionary past.

7. Challenges in Winter

(25:44 – 38:52)

• Simon: Winter “transitions” are hard—executive dysfunction, sensory aversions (wet socks, low sun glare), and layering issues are highlighted:
  “I struggle with the transition to winter. I'm not great with a lot of layers. The amount of times I go, ‘I'm not going outside, it's raining,’ but every time I do, I actually quite enjoy the experience.” (25:44)
• Ashley: Tips for winter:
  • Charity shops for updatin˙g gear
  • Focus on comfortable layers and tools (body wipes, extra towels, gloves)
• Hosts & Guest: Lively, humorous tangent on attachment to favorite clothing and the resistance to updating wardrobes.

8. The Role of Mindset, Ritual, and Contrast

(34:29 – 47:05)

• Ashley: Leans into the value of “contrast”—the pleasure of coziness is heightened by going out in the cold first.
  • Cites yoga and meditation practices that teach using tension–release cycles to intensify feelings of comfort.
  • “Mindset is thinking, ‘this is just going to be tension before release.’” (34:29)
• “The dogs provide [an incentive], you know, they force us to go out and take walks when it’s awful outside…then you get back in…it’s this contrast.” (34:29)

9. Coping Strategies & Winter Rituals

(47:05 – 63:10)

• Jordan: Uses photography, VR environments, and open-world video games to “simulate” nature on dark days.
• Ashley: Maintains bright light in the home, uses a powerful morning visualization (shares her Morning Mind Mastery technique on Insight Timer), and recommends getting outside at the first sunlight.
• Simon: Vows to make morning light exposure a routine, using outdoor coffee as a prompt:
  “I need routine, but the ADHD is going, ‘no you don’t,’…but genuinely, I want to get up in the morning and just have my coffee outside.” (58:55)
• The importance of “awe”:
  • Jordan: “There’s nothing quite like a sunrise…just go and take a picture. Because there’s nothing quite like a sunrise.” (63:34)
  • Ashley: “Feelings of awe that we get with nature…are so good for us mentally and physically.” (64:13)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Simon: “By trying to gain one spoon, I felt like I was throwing them away.” (07:51)
• Jordan: “The neurodivergent mind in its natural state is humans in their natural state…evolutionary wise we belong in nature.” (11:46)
• Ashley: “If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.” (05:26)
• Simon: “Nature isn’t just nice to be in. It is self-regulation, of sensory regulation…I underestimate the power of just being outside.” (10:38)
• Ashley: “Connecting with nature provides oxytocin…these unexpected little gifts can pop up.” (17:55)
• Simon: “Cold therapy is just as beneficial as heat, and I feel better getting out of the cold room than I do the hot one.” (36:24)
• Jordan: “After 44 years I’m still like, ‘Oh God, I can’t believe it’s winter.’…But autumn is one of my favorite times of year.” (39:37)
• Ashley: “Find a way to be awed by nature and that will be really, really helpful for getting you out there.” (64:38)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Time | Segment | |----------|-----------------------------------------------------| | 02:47 | Lake District reunion, learning acceptance | | 07:03 | Contrasts of city vs. country, sensory calm | | 11:46 | Nature as neurodivergent baseline | | 14:46 | Non-natural sensory overload (RAF jets) | | 16:25 | Scientific link: sunlight, circadian rhythms | | 23:00 | Nature for those with mobility/pain limitations | | 25:44 | Winter, executive dysfunction, sensory barriers | | 34:29 | Reframing discomfort as “tension before release” | | 47:05 | Cozy rituals, hibernation, the “contrast” principle | | 54:56 | Technology/VR as nature alternatives in winter | | 55:03 | Visualization & morning routines | | 63:10 | Photography as motivation to go outside | | 64:38 | The value of “awe” in nature |

---

Takeaways & Practical Tips

1. Embrace Imperfection:
Plans will sometimes fail, and learning to accept change is vital for emotional resilience.

2. Nature is a Sensory Regulator:
Regular exposure to the outdoors is especially key for neurodivergent people—supporting mood, sensory processing, and nervous system balance.

3. Small Steps Count:
Even if you can’t walk far, sitting on a front step or near a window, or putting your bare feet to the ground for a few minutes, can be powerful.

4. Prepare for Winter:

• Invest (as able) in comfortable, sensory-friendly clothing.
• Allow yourself to bring “the light” indoors early—consider it mental health maintenance.
• Develop cozy indoor rituals to balance outdoor discomfort.

5. Use Technology:
Photography (even with a phone), VR, or games set in open worlds can help recreate the soothing effects of nature.

6. Mindset Matters:
Visualizations, gratitude practices, and viewing discomfort as “contrast” for later comfort help reframe difficult transitions.

7. Find Your Awe:
A daily ritual—sunrise, sunset, or simply a moment outside—can anchor your mood and build resilience.

---

Final Thoughts

The episode is a heartfelt, practical, and sometimes humorous reflection on why and how neurodivergent people benefit deeply from nature—not just for “fresh air,” but as a return to their truest, most regulated selves. Whether it's through creative workarounds like VR or simply watching the sunrise, the outdoors is positioned as both a healer and a home for those whose needs don't fit the norm.

---

Listeners are encouraged to share their own sunrise photos, find their personal “nature awe” moment, and practice self-kindness through the seasons.

Transcript

[Simon Scott]

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

[Ann Morris]

Hey there. If you've ever felt your confidence slip at work, you're not alone. The good news? Confidence isn't a fixed trait. It's a skill. And like any skill, you can build it with the right tools and practice. I'm Ann Morris, CEO and bestselling author, and together with my wife, Frances Frey, a professor at Harvard Business School, we host the TED podcast Fixable. This season, we're zeroing in on confidence, what it really is, how to strengthen it, and how to help others see you as the leader you already are. So if you're ready to show up with more conviction, to get promoted, to lead with clarity, to do the best work of your career, join us on Fixable. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Simon Scott]

ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.

[Jordan James]

Welcome to the Neurodivergent Experience Podcast, a podcast where we share the lived experiences of neurodivergent people to help create a better understanding for our community.

[Simon Scott]

Join us every week as we bring you honest, raw, and inspiring conversations with specialists, advocates, and individuals who know exactly what it's like to live the neurodivergent experience.

[Jordan James]

I'm Jordan James, a neurodivergent specialist, father of neurodivergent children, husband to a neurodivergent wife, and author of the Autistic Experience. And I'm joined by my best friend.

[Simon Scott]

I'm Simon Scott. I'm an autistic ADHD broadcaster, actor and advocate. Join us as we journey into unraveling the neurodivergent experience. Hello.

[Jordan James]

Hello and welcome back to the Neurodivergent Experience, where we experience neurodivergence. What about you, Scotty?

[Simon Scott]

Who knew? Yeah, it's a first for me. No, it definitely isn't. Hello. Welcome back to the show. It's been a little bit of a break from us for this Thursday show simply because we couldn't be asked. Well, I was gonna say that, but I was definitely gonna say life gets in the way. We've both been super busy, then I was a bit unwell. We were planning to record this episode last sort of weekend, but then essentially health and just timing and energy just did not work for us. So I think we all did the appropriate thing of going, let's just take a break rather than pushing through it.

[Jordan James]

Ironically, the episode idea hasn't changed. It's actually just become more relevant because the whole point of this episode today and we're going to have a little chit chat about what we've been up to. But I want to go into. The episode is about health, well, being pain and how nature can help us so much with all of that. And literally, you know, we, we went, I, I went with Ashley. Ashley said, hello, Ash.

[Ashley Bentley]

Hello, Hello.

[Jordan James]

Ashley is here. I, Ashley and I, with our partners at a nice cottage next to a lake. And unfortunately for Ashley, she was in so much pain that she couldn't even get to the lake. We were next to the lake and Sylvia and I went on lots of lovely walks. We had a lovely, lovely time. But it was, it was heartbreaking because Ashley couldn't even get to the lake. So because of the problems Ashley was having and I had my own pain and Scotty and you had a lot of issues as well because Scotty came and joined us for one day, but we just didn't have time to do the episode that we really wanted to do. So it's more relevant this week because the issues that we've been having because of pain and mental health issues and just burnout in general is literally the reason we couldn't make an episode. So here we are doing this one. But yeah, like I said, we went to the lake district. We all met up for the first time ever, all three of us together.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yay.

[Jordan James]

It wasn't quite the, it wasn't quite the reunion I had in my brain because I was like, okay, we're going to do this and we're going to do this and we're going to do all of these things. And I had all these things planned and not, not, not a single one worked out. And I, I didn't have a meltdown. Like, I didn't, I didn't get angry. I didn't lose my temper. I didn't have any of the usual things when things don't go to plan. And I was upset. I was upset because I was so looking forward to us all hanging out and then going all for walk together and doing some really cool pictures. But it just didn't work out like that. And I think that in a way, it not working out was a really good way of testing me to see how far I've come because of Ashley's help, how far I've come with my ability to accept change and not get meltdowny. That's an official term.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah, absolutely. It was an opportunity for all of us, wasn't it? Of acceptance of. You know, there's a great saying that I heard once of, you want to Make God laugh, Tell him your plans. We have this idea of what something is going to be and then suddenly it's completely different. But yet we were all in it together. And yeah, it was an exercise in acceptance for me. I could have gotten much more down than I did. So it was vibing off of you and Sylvia was great. Your energy is just infectious and so enthusiastic.

[Jordan James]

We are an odd couple, that's for sure.

[Ashley Bentley]

I wouldn't say that. No, No. I don't know if any odd in a good way.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, it was. It was definitely, definitely a neurodivergent experience that whole weekend.

[Ashley Bentley]

It totally was. It so was. And. And yeah, and some real unexpected joys and many of those coming, coming from nature. Even though I wasn't able to do really any walking of any kind, just being in the car. And it's such a beautiful part of the world. It's my first time I'd been to the Kendall Calling Music Festival, which is sort of kind of in that area, but other than that, I'd never been to that part of the uk and it was just gorgeous.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, the Lake District is my favorite.

[Simon Scott]

It was a huge juxtaposition for me because I had essentially had two weekends crammed into one. So I was trying to do a little bit of everything because I wanted to. And again, I had that expectation, sensitivity of I'm going to go up and see Jordan for his birthday and meet Ashley in the person for the first time. But it happened to fall on a Monday rather than being over a weekend, because a concert that I've been waiting for a year got rearranged that weekend and I'd gone from being in London. And honestly, how did I live there for eight years? Why did I do that to myself for such a long time? I was there three hours and I was like, I'm done.

[Jordan James]

I lived there for a year and I moved out forever. Yeah, it was the first year of.

[Simon Scott]

My life and I was walking around and I was just like, oh, my God. And you know, I could feel so much of that sort of switch off, cold energy coming back, because I was like, I'm just gonna get through this, get through this, get through this. And one of the things that I acknowledged the whole time I was there was, wow, this is what it must be like living in London and not being tired all the time. But since I have come back, I have not, not felt tired simply because on that Monday I drove up because I wanted to hit every goddamn roadworks that's ever existed on that road. And Then when I got there, I hit the mountain path and because I was sort of like such in a rush to get there, I was overawed by the view because, wow, what, you know, what a beautiful country we live in. To be able to just step out into somewhere like that that just feels so ancient and so untouched. But at the same time, I'm driving these little country roads and really trying to focus because it's just not what I'm so used to, living in towns and I was burning up so much energy just trying to get there that when I did get there, I was just like, oh, I could just sit here and not go anywhere now. And it completely defeated the point of why I was there in the first place, which was to try and find a bit of energy and recharge. So it was just sort of, you know, by trying to gain one spoon, I felt like I was throwing them away. But then once I actually managed to get out and go for a walk, I don't think I felt that relaxed or sort of calm in a while compared to where I was literally 24 hours before. Trying to get through Houston station, trying to get back to Liverpool, just suddenly, just being in the, you know, the Lake District the next day, I was like, why did I choose city living and the noise and the lights and everything over this? I can't believe I made that decision consciously. Every day for nearly nine years.

[Jordan James]

I was going to say, if money wasn't an object, if money didn't get in the way, I would have lived in that cottage that we rented. It was a lovely big cottage right on Buttermere Lake. I would live there, just well away, no phone signal, barely any Internet, like, just away from the world. So, like, if you go for a walk, no one can call you, you can't check your phone for the Internet. You just. It's just you in nature. It's like going back in time and oh God, I loved it so much. And obviously I just. I was getting up really early in the morning to come do the sunrises just by myself, just walking around, literally not a soul around, just me and the ducks and the sheep who are weirdly friendly. Just saying.

[Simon Scott]

But you can't underestimate the importance of, like, nature isn't just sort of nice to be in. It is a form of self regulation, of sensory regulation. And something that I have come to acknowledge is as even like a quote unquote newly diagnosed person is how integral that is for me to navigate everyday life. Yeah. Because this past week I haven't Been out as much. I would have loved to have played golf this weekend. And as you can probably hear in my voice, I'm still not really over whatever it is I've got. Call it burnout, flu, man flu, whatever. It's not really been a flu. It started as a particular cough that became a blocked nose and they've disappeared and now it's a sore throat again and I've had like dry eyes and it's just moving around because my body doesn't know what's up with it. I do, I'm burnt out. And because of the sort of workload I've got with, you know, just life goes on, doesn't it? You can't just turn, turn everything off in everyday life. The bills go on, work goes on and I have barely been outside this week. My God, have I felt it. I really underestimate the power of just being outside.

[Jordan James]

Well, it's exactly what I, I've said for so many years, that the neurodivergent mind is in its natural state. Is humans in their natural state. That, that, that's why we don't do well as in us and many other neurodivergent people I know of. We tend to really struggle in man made structures and in towns and roads and wherever something is unnatural. And then you have this, all the abilities that we have of being able to hear, we did this in the sensory one. We have all these abilities that in nature become abilities. And as soon as we're put into any town or city or even a freaking village, which I love villages by the way, but it's, it's, they still overwhelm me sensorily. Suddenly it, that becomes straight away it's a disability and it's, it's not just oh, this is how I feel. It's like it, it's so obvious that evolutionary wise we belong in nature. It's, it's like I don't think that if, if, if I lived in the Lake District, if the Lake District was my life, I don't think that being autistic would be an impairment pretty much in any way. Like if, if I didn't have to read or write or do all the things that modern society, if I could just live as, as naturally as I possibly could. I just don't see how being autistic is an impairment. I could only see it for me, that is, I could only see it as being a benefit just having those abilities to just enjoy my surroundings.

[Ashley Bentley]

That's a really good point. That's a really good Point. Yeah.

[Jordan James]

Which is why we get healed when we go out in nature. Because it's like, that's us in our natural state.

[Ashley Bentley]

Absolutely.

[Jordan James]

That's why it's so healing. And then as soon as we get. Like you said in London, you just like, it's too much. It's too much.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, I just. Yeah, yeah. I just felt like I, I was just absorbing absolutely everything. So when I was walking with you, the only thing that I had to focus on was your conversation. Like, that was just it. I was sort of, you know, looking up at the trees and sort of smelling the moss. And just the only thing that was a surprise to me or like an extreme transition of. Oh, that waterfall that I saw driving in isn't that one. It's another one. How lucky am I to see two? That is as deep as a transition my brain had to make. It wasn't just being bombarded by absolute information. And I'm sure, Ashley, you will experience that sort of living on the Isle of Man. You know, you're stepping outside and you're just like, oh, it's just me.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah. But we did have that very interesting juxtaposition though, didn't we, on the Monday because of the low flying planes that came in, which really, really now that, that juxtaposition of being in this beautiful quiet spot and then, and I was already quite, quite activated and quite stressed because I thought my, my debit card had been stolen and all of this was going on. And then suddenly I'm on the phone to the bank and I hear this and it sounded like the end of the world. I was like, what is going on? And then I realized, oh, it's a, it's a very low flying plane.

[Jordan James]

Yes. The jet, the jet planes that just fly through the valley.

[Simon Scott]

The RAF train in the, in the Lake District. Yeah.

[Jordan James]

They have scared the crap out of me when I've just been walking around and then suddenly they've just flew over my head.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, an F35.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, I literally. It's like. It's like being jumped in a horror film. But it's like such a sensory overload. But once again, it is that exact thing. It's. As soon as you add a non natural element into the equation, somehow it negatively affects us. We seem to be negatively affected by everything. That isn't a natural thing. Yeah, I mean, we can get affected by natural things. I mean, I'm pretty sure an avalanche wouldn't be too friendly to me. But what I'm saying is that when everything is calm and Nature is nature. And then suddenly a car or airplane comes into the thing. It's just not as nice, is it?

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah, yeah. And it's. You're absolutely right. We are so, we are so tied to nature and you know, just, just knowing that our circadian rhythms are completely tied to the light and light is tied to so many other aspects of our scientific well being with our, with our bodies. You know, it regulates our sort of our metabolism and our appetite and our mood. The light outside. We are meant to be outside way, way more than we are. And connecting with nature and especially if you've got, if you've got overwhelm happening, if you've got anxiety, you're feeling overwhelmed, that is your body's way of telling you to move and get outside, go for a brisk walk, walk off those stress hormones. We get. The easiest way for our bodies to make serotonin is through sunlight with the, the vitamin D that we get through through sunlight. And connecting with nature provides oxytocin, which is, which is sort of, it's also known as the love hormone, the sort of the bonding hormone. Connecting with, with animals in nature is just. Oh, and, and Sylvia saw a red squirrel. Didn. That was, that was very exciting news. Yeah, we didn't see it. None of us saw it.

[Jordan James]

I was so envious because I was like I'd love a picture of a red squirrel.

[Ashley Bentley]

But that is, it's the beauty of nature, isn't it? These unexpected little, little gifts that can, that can pop up and I suddenly. It's so funny. It's like I've turned into the, the, the trope of the middle aged woman now suddenly being obsessed with birds. I just out of nowhere, I was never really a huge fan either way of, or didn't really feel that, that much about, about birds up until about a year ago and suddenly it's like I'm obsessed with birds. So. Yeah. Nature has so many gifts to, to give us and help regulate us and help really keeping us regulated is really our daily, our daily goal, isn't it? Being, being neurodivergent, this regulation, mentally, physically, we know those are tied completely. So nature is our, is our gift at our doorstep to provide pretty much everything that we need in that regard.

[Jordan James]

Exactly.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

So let's have a little chat about the pain that we have as neurodivergent people. But let's do that after we have a break.

[Ashley Bentley]

You know how everything's a subscription now. Music, movies, even socks. I swear, if I to continue this.

[Simon Scott]

Ad, please upgrade to premium plus Platinum.

[Ashley Bentley]

Uh, What? No. Anyway, Blue Apron.

[Simon Scott]

This is a pay per Listen ad. Please confirm your billing.

[Ashley Bentley]

Oh, that's annoying. At least with the new Blue Apron, there's no subscription needed. Get delicious meals delivered without the weekly plan. Wait, no subscription? Keep the flavor, ditch the subscription. Get 20% off your first two orders with code APRON20. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blue apron.com.

[Simon Scott]

This is a neurodivergent experience. Public announcement. If you live in England and you or a loved one is waiting for an autism or ADHD assessment, you don't have to wait years. RTN Diagnostics is now part of the NHS Right to Choose scheme, which means if your local weight for a consultant led autism or ADHD assessment is more than 18 weeks, you can choose RTN instead and it won't cost you a penny. Jordan chose RTN for his own family because their care and attention to detail were second to none. They didn't just diagnose autism and adhd, they looked at the full picture, including pda, ocd, anxiety and more. The team is friendly, neuroaffirming and comprises many neurodivergent individuals, so they truly understand getting started is simple. Download the GP referral letter and questionnaire from the link in our show notes, take those to your GP and ask for a referral to RTN Diagnostics. If approved, RTN will be in touch within eight weeks to begin your assessment. Remember, this only applies in England and some exclusions do apply. RTN is not currently able to accept referrals for child ADHD assessments, so check the details before you start RTN diagnostics, helping you get the answers you deserve without the wait. Welcome back to the neurodivergent experience. The birds are CHIRPING it's beautiful outside, nice little crisp morning, afternoon, evening, wherever you are.

[Jordan James]

Whose birds are chubby because there's Snow.

[Simon Scott]

White on the screen to the left of me.

[Jordan James]

Ashley living in the. On the Isle of Man. She's just like proper Snow White Cinderella. Ing. Yeah. All I've got is the flipping washing machine going on.

[Simon Scott]

I would. Yeah, why not? But it just shows you, doesn't it? It's all very nice, very chill, but no pain. Is something that, you know, certainly keeps me indoors. This week. I've definitely felt under the weather and I haven't gone to the gym, I haven't done my sort of usual routine. And it's not even that I'm experiencing a lot of pain, it's more just fatigue.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah.

[Simon Scott]

But I can totally relate to. There are moments where just stepping outside and I Know that not everyone can always go for a nice brisk walk in the hills, but if you have a garden or a balcony or a public space, sometimes just sitting on a bench for five minutes has been enough for me in the past. But pain is something that we all sort of have to navigate. But I do not regularly have a relationship with pain like either of you to do. You know, Jordan, you've had your issues with your back recently, and Ashley, it was, it was terrible to see you in such pain on Monday. How do you navigate that relationship of trying to have regular outdoor time and that sort of mental regulation that comes with just being outside when you don't even feel like you can, you can get out?

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah, it is a tricky one. And I've, I've really been navigating this, especially these last couple weeks, because normally, I mean, I've, I've been having ongoing issues with my hip and EDS flares, but I could still get out for small walks. And that, unfortunately is not possible right now. Just as you say, just stepping outside, like last night, it was a beautiful sunset. I stepped outside and I sat on my front step and I just watched nature in all of its glory and allowed my eyes to sort of widen, my vision widen. And anytime that we sort of look out at a horizon and let our sort of vision expand in every direction, that is very calming for your nervous system. And also, viewing a sunset helps to offset any extra light exposure you might have later on that evening. So it doesn't mess with your circadian rhythm too much. But yeah, just walk outside or step outside however you can, even if it's just on your front step. Even also if you can get your bare feet in the grass. Now, sensory wise, this night might not be everybody's ideal thing to do. And as we're heading into the winter months, and I know we're going to be talking about that too, putting your feet on the ground is very, very good for regulating yourself due to the nature of positive and negative charge that happens. I don't know too much about the science behind it, but there is science behind it and it is really, really advantageous. If you can get your bare feet on the ground 15 to 20 minutes a day. And so you don't have to walk if you can just sit and have your feet on the ground or stand, this is really good.

[Jordan James]

That is also us in our natural state because we evolved from ape like creatures that would have bare feet. Shoes weren't always around.

[Ashley Bentley]

Well, now, I mean, funnily enough, I have a friend of mine who, rain or shine, it doesn't matter what day of the year it is. Even the coldest winter day. He steps outside and he has his morning cup of tea with bare feet in the grass and doesn't matter what is going on. He doesn't.

[Jordan James]

Bloody hippies.

[Simon Scott]

Hardcore. That is hardcore.

[Ashley Bentley]

It's really hardcore. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he says it, you know, it feels amazing. Especially when you've got that. That contrast of the winter months and it's cold, it's like, oh. But then when you step inside and you get warm, you feel amazing. You feel so good because you've had that contrast.

[Simon Scott]

Well, speaking of contrasts, we've mentioned it. Winter is coming. As the northerners regularly shout at me, I struggle with the transition to winter. I'm not great with a lot of layers. I'm not great with temperature control. And it really messes with my executive function. I will look out that window and go, nope, I ain't going out there today. But I always feel good for it, even when I don't want to. The amount of times I go, I'm not going outside, it's raining. But every time I'm out and I get caught in the rain, I actually quite enjoy the experience. I am just very much a juxtaposition of that. But yes, there is so much that sort of comes into play when nature hits. It's, you know, the change of routine. It's, you know, the barriers that happen with colder weather, shorter days, like I mentioned, sensory discomfort. If I have wet socks.

[Jordan James]

Oh, God, yes.

[Simon Scott]

I don't want to touch anything, you know. And another thing that I also really struggle with is when the sun gets low, I get the worst glare and it can really create a lot of headaches for me. I am not a fan of winter.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah, I went on a really interesting retreat a couple of years ago and it was all about how to set up for. For winter. You know, how to really, you know, let's. Let's get the best out of winter. It's difficult. This is where people experience SAD Seasonal Effectiveness disorder, where because of the lack of light in winter, it can really affect our mood. And yeah, we just want. It's so much easier to stay nice and warm and toasty inside than go outside. But first of all, really looking at your winter gear and if you have much like. It was interesting to hear Sylvie and I share a similar sort of thing. I don't like wet hands. I don't like feeling sort of wetness on. On my body. So I've really Worked hard on finding things that keep me dry. Now as you say, Simon, that the layering issue and the temperature regulation, that is a really, really difficult one. And you know, I suppose working on trying to find the right, the right layers and the ease of removing things will be your best bet. But really setting yourself up for success. And I know not everybo couldn't afford get buying all sorts of brand new gear, but it's amazing what you can find at charity shops this time of year. They're bringing out, you know, and it's amazing what people donate to charity shops. So give a charity shop a go. If, if you're, if your budget is limited, there will, you'll find some good products out there.

[Simon Scott]

But it is so true in that I've had, this is just me all over. I've had the same winter coat for over 20 years because I've had it for 10 years and it also wasn't mine those 10 years before. That is, I don't need another. I've got one, it's fine. I like, never lets me down.

[Jordan James]

I buy different ones because they look cool.

[Simon Scott]

I'm just like, it's all, it's a classic.

[Jordan James]

No one believes you.

[Simon Scott]

I believe.

[Ashley Bentley]

I think, I think perhaps we need to do an episode on keeping clothes for a very long time because I, I still, I have clothes that are like, you know, 30, 40 years old that I'm still wearing. This is, I'm so glad to know I'm not alone.

[Jordan James]

You two have not unmasked enough. You are, you are just fully within the T. And you, you, you need to unmask, but in the anti autistic way. You need to realize what is acceptable and what isn't. And I, I realized what wasn't acceptable, and this is way before I knew I was autistic, is that I had this black T shirt that was very slimming. It showed off my, my tattoos on my arms and it was, it was great. It was kind of perfect. It's perfect T shirt. It was so perfect that I wore it for at least seven or eight years, pretty much all the time. And I even wore it to get married. I didn't wear a suit. I wore a suit jacket with this T shirt underneath. Like I was in Miami Vice or some shit.

[Simon Scott]

The issue with owning a coat for 20.

[Jordan James]

No, hold on, I'm getting to this.

[Simon Scott]

Okay?

[Jordan James]

So when, when I fight, when Sylvia finally comes, convinced me that there was this thing called color and I didn't have to just wear a black T shirt every day because to be honest, I was still riding my Matrix phase.

[Simon Scott]

As Ashley and I both sat here wearing black.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, exactly. And I'm. And I'm just wearing, like, cream and red, and basically I'm wearing. I'm wearing a Pennywise T shirt, which is pretty cool. But, yeah, it's like I. She started getting me into, like, different fashion and clothes and stuff because I just wore the same thing pretty much all the time. I just tried to look like Neo, and people said I look like Blade, and I was like, no, I look like Neo from the Matrix.

[Simon Scott]

The wrong futuristic Goth.

[Jordan James]

Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

[Simon Scott]

Goth's right.

[Jordan James]

And I'd wear, like, long black jackets. Like, I was proper Matrix. I was just obsessed. And I just wore that sort of outfit for a long, long. Way too long. And when I decided to sort of get rid of this T shirt, it. I literally. It was a hard. It was a difficult day, but I was like, okay, I'm not gonna wear this T shirt anymore. We're gonna get all these new clothes. I'm gonna stop wearing the same thing every single. I can't believe I didn't know I was autistic back then. There was not enough information around. I needed this podcast then. That would have been really helpful. Okay, so under the armpits was rock solid. So that is how often I wore this. And I was like, okay, it's time to. It's time to get rid of. Was a hard day. It was difficult. But the point is, now I've got so many different clothes, so many different varieties, because that. That one thing taught me a lesson of, Right. Wearing the same thing over and over again. It's not. It's not good. Okay, Variety in your life.

[Simon Scott]

But this is one of the things that I've sort of done with my wardrobe, right, Is I have. Oh, God, man. I've worn many masks. I've had for many different fashions through, like, autumn, winter, summer, spring. I feel like I've been so many different people with my clothes. But now I've reached that stage of going, okay, I know that these sorts of T shirts are good for me in the winter. These ones are sort of this. And once I find the one I like, I don't just sort of have the same one and keep wearing it. I will just buy multiple ones so that I don't know which one's. Which version. I'm just like, oh, it's. I have that one, and I have, like, three of them. But Caris and I did this where we were looking at our wardrobe. The other day, and we're like, do we both need a winter wardrobe? And we looked at it. We looked at our clothes. We've not really updated for a few years. We both went, now this is fine. I'm. I'm accepting of, this is the winter coat that I have. This is my spring one. This is this one, this is this one. And I will wear stuff until it literally has holes in and will secretly replace it and trick myself so that I don't know when the old one dies. But these are all little things that really do help me sort of navigate winter. Because if I have clothes that I like, I'm more likely to go outside simply because if I'm wearing a coat that I put on and then I perspire, like, I can go to the gym and be sweaty. It won't bother me if I'm sweaty when I don't want to be. I want to go home and just have a wash instantly.

[Jordan James]

Oh, yeah, PDA kicks in.

[Simon Scott]

I'm like, I don't care if I'm here for something I care about. I'm hot, I'm sweaty. Get off me. Don't touch me. Get away from me. And they're all the things that I really struggle with. So having the correct wardrobe genuinely is a really, really, really helpful.

[Ashley Bentley]

And having some towels with you as well to dry off. Or maybe also some body. Body wipes as well if you. If you feel like. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Jordan James]

I hate getting sweaty because then I start thinking, oh, my clothes are dirty. And I don't like the idea of my clothes being dirty. So for me, it's. I don't really care about the feeling of being wet. It's just the idea that it's messing up my clothes.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

Because I. Because I have, like, an emotional attachment to objects in this weird way. And it's like if I was to walk outside with Pooh Bear, my teddy, like, I would worry more about him getting dirty than me.

[Simon Scott]

But it's so simple when you sort of think about it. Right. All of those things can compound and lead to a meltdown during winter.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yes, yes. And so this is where we can really start to play around with reframing things. And those of. Those of you who have dogs. I know you. You do. You have. Do you have dogs, Simon?

[Simon Scott]

My parents do. So technically I'm like a third person ownership. But yeah, no. So I have no pets in the house. Although I would wear getting our head around maybe getting a cat.

[Ashley Bentley]

Ah, well, I suppose you probably won't be taking the cat For a walk. But one great thing that the dogs provide is, you know, they force us to go out and take walks when it's awful outside. And then, you know, and you're out there and you're like, miserable and it's. And then you get back in and you're like, it almost again, it's this contrast. And there's a really interesting thing that happens sometimes in yoga, nidra, or regular yogas or guided meditations where you will intentionally tighten up your whole body and really just. Just really, really uncomfortably so. And you do that for a few. A few moments so that when you release it and when you relax, you feel amazing. And you feel so amazing because you've had that contrast. So the thing that I do with my mindset is think, right, okay, I may not want to go outside right now. I'm going to deal with sensory things. I'm going to get wet. I'm going to get all of these things. But I know it's going to be like the tension before the release once I get back inside. And then I can get myself nice and warm and toasty and get a hot water bottle, it's going to feel that much better because I've been in this contrast. So that's a way you can kind of sort of play a mental game with yourself and just go, this is just. This is just going to be the tension before release.

[Simon Scott]

And something that I've learned as well. And I think it is important for people that obviously have absolutely. That carry pain in their body. And it's something that I'm learning as I'm getting older. Cold therapy is just as beneficial as heat.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah.

[Simon Scott]

And I'm not somebody that does like the ice bath things. I've not quite mentally made that challenge available to myself just yet. But there have been times at my gym where they have a sauna and they have like a really cold room. I feel better getting out of the cold room than I do the hot one. And I never thought I would feel like that as somebody that has always struggled with heat, temperature. But as I've gotten older and body issues are starting to find themselves more regular, the benefit of going from a cold space to a hot one is amazing for helping me get to sleep. But pain and even for like waking up, like, it's baffled me how much better I feel going to the gym and using a cold room and then getting into bed maybe an hour or two later. I wish I had known that sooner for my body. It's really made a big, big difference to my life using cold therapy.

[Ashley Bentley]

That's such a great point. And yet it releases endorphins as well.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, the high that I get after I come out of a cold room. I feel like I've never run for an hour. But I can imagine the feeling is similar in the. The sort of, like, the stiffness that I have and because I carry so much tension, like, the top half of my body, just as a. As a human. And the pain relief that I've had just from sort of trying these different methods has. Has been really, really beneficial. So even though winter is crap and I hate how dark it gets, and I live in the northwest of England, so it rains a lot, but you can't sort of underestimate, like, I've played golf on a crisp Sunday morning. The endorphins that I have when I get home, it's like stepping off a roller coaster. I just feel so much better.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jordan James]

My favorite thing about this episode is that we introduce this sec. This particular section as we're going to talk about pain and stuff, and somehow we've ended up on winter. But my other favorite thing is that it's. It's. It's just started to be autumn, and we're already mentally preparing for winter, like. Like, we're literally in Game of Thrones. Winter is coming.

[Simon Scott]

It is.

[Jordan James]

It's. It's coming. It's coming for you.

[Simon Scott]

It's not your culture, Jordan. You need to know this. It is, and you should be ready.

[Jordan James]

And it's so funny because this is so necessary. It is necessary to go. Okay. Because Sylvia and I are literally driving, and we're feeling that Christmas, when we get up in the morning and we have, like, an hour of the radiators going on just to sort of balance it, but I find myself, like, wrapped in my oodie or I'm wearing a jumper downstairs, and so, you know, pack the basketball jerseys away, because that's not happening. And I'm just like, oh, yeah, winter's coming. But autumn is one of my favorite times of year.

[Simon Scott]

As is mine.

[Jordan James]

Especially for photography. Especially just. And walking in nature and seeing all the beautiful colors. It's absolutely perfect.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah. Seeing nature die and decay. Yes, of course.

[Jordan James]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Ashley Bentley]

But you. I can't remember which one of you mentioned something about getting used to getting used to the seasons. And it occurred to me not too long ago that it. I don't know about you guys, but for me, it seems like it just. When I'm starting to vibe with whatever season is happening, it's like, okay, I mean, all right, we're doing this now. It's time for a new season. It's like, hold on, I'm only just getting used to this one.

[Jordan James]

Isn't it mental that like Me Personally, after 44 years I'm still like, oh God, I can't believe it's winter. I'm like, I mean, I've experienced a few of these now and again this, well last year. So I'm ready for this year. Last year I found a winter fix for, for my sad, right? Because I get Sylvia and I both get the sad, which is why we normally go for our wedding anniversary for like a tropical holiday. This year it was Mauritius. Next year it's New Zealand. And it's tropical because in New Zealand, technically it's summer. So that's. I'll be trying to be tropical in Hobbiton when I go for my second breakfast tour. I can't wait.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, that'd be great.

[Jordan James]

But yeah, we always go in like January, February, you know, to escape that winter blues, you know. But also I, I think that that's, you know, I'm not religious, but I think that that's why I love Christmas because Christmas is that, which is why it's so good. And the idea like, because you're atheist, you can't celebrate Christmas is ridiculous because Christmas is a pagan holiday, by the way. It's called Winter Solstice and that is what I support. So the idea of bringing the lights inside your house and the decorations, I was so anal. So I can say this because I am so autistic, right? In the way that I had this very one minded approach to. No, you can't have your decorations till December 1st. It has to be December 1st. And, and until then you can't have your decorations. And not. And it's not just me, by the way.

[Simon Scott]

I went into Tesco the other day and I was like, get those biscuits out of here. Halloween first, please.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, see, before Halloween. That I'm still gonna stick to. Just naff off with, with your Santa Claus and till.

[Simon Scott]

Until tis spooky season, my guy.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, which is, which is why you have the beautiful transition of the Nightmare Before Christmas. And as soon as, as soon as you're able to watch Nightmare Before Christmas, which is literally just after Halloween, November.

[Simon Scott]

The first is the rule in my house.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. But I was always like, oh, December 1st. And Sylvia same. In fact, nearly every autistic person that I've ever Met was like December 1st. But then I put it out on my Page as like, oh, why, why, why do people this on Facebook? Why, why do. Why do people, like, buy decorations? Why are they decorating the house before December 1st? And the answers I got back were actually, I mean, it's Facebook, so not all of them were nice, but the nice ones were like, well, actually, it's not about Christmas. It's about preparing for winter because we, we normally get very depressed in the winter because we can't go outside as much. And light is very, very important to us. So because it gets dark so early and sometimes it's dark all the way through the day because it's like flicking Mordor weather, especially up north. If you bring those lights and decorations and that happiness into your house as early as possible, it will lift your spirit. And for the first time ever, and I mean ever, Sylvia and I as a couple got all the way through Christmas without any even like a touch of depression. Not even like, oh, I'm a little bit upset or I'm a little bit down. We, we felt good the whole time and we went full in on Christmas. Like, I, I've never been so Christmassy, apart from when the kids were really, really little. But I went as adult kids, which is really weird. But with my adult kids, I'd never gone full into Christmas, but I went full into Christmas. And we did like, you know, gingerbread house making and that sort of a thing. That's just an example. My brain isn't working properly. But. But yeah, we did so many proper Christmassy things and it was so, so fun. And I think that that's why it's really, really good to, to. To put up your decorations as early as, you know, your tism will allow. Because it's not about Christmas, it's about mental health. And as soon as that was explained to me and as soon as I experienced it and Christmas is the focus, Christmas is the celebration. But for me and for all these people, decorating their houses inside was just to make them happy. Yeah, it was a game changer, absolute game changer.

[Ashley Bentley]

I'm gonna, I'm gonna give out a little secret here. I'm gonna share a little bit of personal information. I have a Christmas tree, a small Christmas tree in my bedroom that stays up all the time.

[Jordan James]

And it's just now we don't like you.

[Simon Scott]

I think one of the things beneficial about that, and I think it will head into a break here because I want to sort of hear what your rituals are of, like, dealing with the change of winter in nature, especially like in a morning. But I rate that, Ashley, simply because, one, you don't have to keep putting it up at the end of the year, which is a bit of a PDA thing for me. I'm like, oh, it's February. The Christmas tree still up. But I like the idea of your house having all seasons at all times, because you know, what Jordan said there of bringing the light in. I used to go out with a girl from Scandinavia and the lights that they have within their house and how they sort of culturally have this sort of idea of warmth and light and good food and fattening up for the winter and sort of like, it's never about Christmas, it's about hibernating.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yes. It's higgy, isn't it, that there's this. Yeah. Where you just really get into candles and lighting the fire and really soft clothings and extra blankets and really just. Yeah. Leaning really hard into, like. Let's just make this as cozy and comfy as possible, Dan.

[Jordan James]

That's it. They're cozy and comfy. Like, you can't be cozy and comfy unless you're uncosy and uncomfy first.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yes.

[Jordan James]

So you have. You go outside and you get cold and it's windy and it may be wet and it's dark, and then you get back and then you can snuggle up and you can have your nice lights or a fire. And that. That sense of that coziness can only be created if you upset yourself in the first place to then. So you can't enjoy a really hot, nice, hot chocolate unless you're cold.

[Simon Scott]

When you drink, your hands are freezing. Absolutely. And, you know, on that warm, fuzzy, cozy note, I think we'll take a little bit of a break there, but when we come back, guys, I'd love to hear your sort of rituals to help with this transition of embracing nature, but also embracing the cozy vibes. So don't go anywhere, guys. We'll be right back. Have you ever felt stuck in patterns that don't serve you, struggled with stress, or wanted to connect more deeply with yourself? Then I have to introduce you to a friend of the podcast, Ashley Bentley of Integrated coaching, breathwork and Hypnotherapy. Ashley is a highly experienced clinical hypnotherapist and coach specializing in working with neurodivergent minds. Through a unique blend of integrative coaching, breathwork and hypnotherapy, Ashley helps people rewire subconscious patterns, regulate their nervous systems, and step into more empowered versions of themselves. Whether you're dealing with addiction, anxiety, burnout or struggles with self acceptance. Ashley offers practical and science backed tools tailored just for you. Her unique methods combine neuroscience, storytelling, subconscious transformation to create real, lasting change. Jordan and I can personally attest to the profound and transformative effects of her sessions, which have been life changing. She does all of these sessions online, meaning she can work with you no matter where you are in the world. If you're ready to break free from old patterns and start living with more clarity, confidence and connection, go to Bit ly ashleynde to book a free consultation or learn more. Welcome back to the neurodivergent Experience. We've been having a fun one, talking about nature, nature and sort of getting out there when you're living with a bit of pain and also when those days start to get shorter and night just feels like it's, it's forever here during those winter months. So I'm interested to know guys, as somebody who's only really sort of, I feel so new to this. Even though I'm still like three years, four years in now, I have come to learn that obviously we aren't always brilliant with transitions. I have never acknowledged that waking up and getting out of bed in itself is a difficult transition, especially for me. How do you guys tackle that when you're waking up in the dark? Because I just don't feel like I ever really get going in the winter until about the afternoon. So I'm intrigued. Do you have any sort of like little rituals or, or things that you do to sort of really help yourself get active in this time of year?

[Jordan James]

Yeah, I Heavy cry oh, well, I already do that. So I get up in the morning, it's pitch black outside because I, I, on a day shift especially, I go to work and it's dark and then I go home and it's dark and I can't walk in nature at work and I do 12 hour shifts. So especially when I'm working, it's, it's very, very hard for me to enjoy nature because I can't walk around in it, I can't see it, I can't experience it. So especially on a long stint of shifts, it's, it's hard. It really is very, very hard. But also I have to get up earlier because, you know, I have to get up earlier because I have to scrape off the thing, you know, the ice from the car.

[Simon Scott]

And I thought you were about you.

[Jordan James]

But yeah, sure, scrape the ice off me because I forgot to put the heating on.

[Simon Scott]

Just thought right.

[Jordan James]

And, and also I just have to mentally prepare as well, for. For the drive, because I'm. I'm just that more tired. When I. When I wake up and it's light, suddenly I just feel like, oh, and I'm jumping. I'm jumping out of bed. I'm good to go. I get tired during the day, obviously, but in the mornings, I'm actually like, hey, that's what I was like in the lay district. You know, that's why, like, sunrises and things like that. Like, if. If I have a motivation, if I feel good about something, then. Then I'm just gonna get up and I feel good. And as soon as I see that sun, I'm like, oh, it's brilliant. And I have all that energy, but when I get to work, that doesn't happen. So I just end up feeling tired the whole day. And then I get back and I'm just, oh, I'm so drained. And that. That's. That's kind of like. That's when I comfy eat, which is really, really bad because it's like I go. I go on these holidays where. Where they're like, you know, like go around in, like, swimming pools, and it's like summer holidays, and they want to be, like, shirtless or whatever, which in the winter, it's. It's like, that's not happening. It's baggy hoodies, and you don't really give a crap out what your belly looks like. But then I'll put all this winter weight on.

[Simon Scott]

Get all fat.

[Jordan James]

And then in January, I go on holiday and I'm like, I don't look quite as good as I was hoping because it's like, you made the case. Oh, yeah. You know, lose weight for summer and get fit for summer. I don't. I don't. I don't really go with all that bollocks at the end of the day to look what you want to look like. Just enjoy yourself, for crying out loud. As long as you're not having a heart attack, who cares? But. But there is that side of me that's like, I'd like to. I'd like to look at least, like, representable when I take my shirt off. But after Christmas, that's not happening then. That's why I bought the baggy basketball jersey. I will hide my shame.

[Simon Scott]

Okay, so, like, your advice is just get fat and sassy. Wear baggy. Yeah, Cool.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. Stop giving a. Just. Just enjoy. Enjoy the food, enjoy telly. And I play a lot of video games in the winter, and the great thing is, is that I'll play Games that like open world games so they actually give false sense of realistic sunshine. So I get out and it's like I can. I can play a game like Oblivion, where I'm out in nature, and I actually feel really nice. And I. I will literally play Oblivion and I would just go for a walk in the woods like, or the Witcher or something like that. And you play these beautiful. I mean, the graphics are so flipping amazing in a lot of video games now. You kind of feel like you're actually there. But the other thing that I've got before, before we go to Ashley, the other thing that I've got is a VR headset. So a lot of the times when it's dark and miserable, moody, even, Even when in the summer, you know, you have rainy days or whatever, I. I will sit in my bed and I'll put my VR helmet on, and I have this VR experience where you can select different places in the world and just sit in nature. And one of my favorite ones, weirdly, is that you can sit on a fake planet in a different planet, and it's just you on this entire planet and you look into the sky and there's all these other different stars and different other planets and it's. Oh, it's so cool. It's like the most alone I could possibly be in my own space. I have an entire planet to myself. But yeah, I can see waterfalls and things like that. And the other thing that helps me is that I surround myself with my photography of sunrises, sunsets, beautiful summery days. And my photography alone is what also really, really helps me get through those winter months.

[Simon Scott]

So what about you, Ashley? What do you find are your sort of little rituals that you find yourself coming back to when the nights draw in and the days get cold?

[Ashley Bentley]

Well, I have the same morning ritual that I do all year round. But I think this could be a great thing for people to adopt now, and it will help in winter months. I take advantage of the. We're in a natural theta brainwave state when we first wake up. So that's the brainwave state that we're in. In hypnosis and meditation. That's when our brains are most plastic. So that's when we can really sort of shape our day, intentionally shape our day, the day ahead. And so I take a few moments to visualize little snapshots of what I know I need to do that day. One of them being getting up and feeling okay about it and feeling and just really visualizing myself with loads of gratitude and just really feeling super grateful for the, for the coming day. And it sets your day up. I get out of bed and I'm like, yeah, let's do this. I turn on all the lights. So in wintertime, because it's a bit late, when the sun starts to make an appearance, you want to get your space as bright as possible. And then when the sun does come up, you want to get outside and again, you can just stand there, get the sunlight in your eyes. That not only helps you get to sleep later on that night, but the bright light helps to release your morning cortisol. And this cortisol is necessary. We need it to get up and going. And I know I've mentioned this before on the podcast, but it bears repeating, especially if perhaps somebody's hearing this for the first time, that cortisol is going to get released one way or another. And if it's not released with the light early in the day, it gets released later on, leaving you feeling wired and tired later on that day. So, yes. So I, I visualize everything I want to do that day. I. Bright light. If anybody's interested in the visualization technique that I use, I've got a little course on insight timer called Morning Mind Mastery. And it's, it's, it's what I use to, to get myself up and going every morning. And it's really, really helpful.

[Jordan James]

Don't tell our audience things like that. Every time we ask them to do something, they never do it. They're all pd.

[Simon Scott]

You are mean, aren't you?

[Jordan James]

Yeah, exactly. The audience is so mean.

[Ashley Bentley]

This could be, this could be a sort of like a. With you saying that nobody's gonna do it. That's. The PDA will be. Well, I'm gonna do this. If you say that I'm not gonna do. Yeah, I'm gonna do it. So. Yeah, psychology.

[Jordan James]

No one buy my photography. That's. Yeah, it's, it's, it's the worst. But obviously I'm joking. For anyone that didn't understand that I, I must.

[Ashley Bentley]

I. The whole month of October on Mindful Mondays is going to be centered around nature and mental well being.

[Jordan James]

No Pennywise, no Monday morning, don't forget, we'll do a Halloween monster that eats your children.

[Simon Scott]

Get it out your system.

[Ashley Bentley]

What about you, Simon? What have you find is working for you? I must mention this, this might be helpful for you, Simon. I saw Mel Robbins talk about this getting out of bed. If you're having a difficult time getting out of bed now, I can't do this because of My physical limitations plus my bed is a little bit too high. But basically she's like just literally crawl and roll out of bed.

[Simon Scott]

Just, just oh, I already do that.

[Jordan James]

Apparently matches on the floor. So you just keep rolling and then land on the floor on a mattress and then, and then worm your way off the that mattress.

[Simon Scott]

I've managed to have like many sort of conversations with myself about things that I've tried to work on. And you know what? I feel like I've made such progress with the relationship with myself. But getting up in the morning is just the one thing I do not feel like I've ever made progress with. I still feel like a teenager. I'm still late for school. It's, it's never really quite worked unless I'm getting up for something I actually care about. Like if I'm playing golf an hour away, 8am on a Sunday morning, I'm at the course for seven. Like I just wish that I had that sort of ability to just go. I can count from 5, 4, 3, 2, get out of bed. Like I've just never really been able to do it. But one of the things I am really going to try and do this year and this is me saying it out loud because it puts pressure on me because people are listening to this and now I have to do it is I am genuinely going to try and have like morning light check ins. I'm going to try and get up, get light in my eye as soon as possible, get outside, get my feet in the garden because I have a coffee every morning and I need to build. This is me, an autistic person going, I need routine. But the ADHD is going, no you don't, it's fine. But genuinely I want to get up in the morning and just have my coffee outside. Not roll over in my bed and sit on my phone and just sort of like digest and have such a slow start because I realize how much that affects my sleep later at night because of the pesky circadian rhythm. But that is something I'm really going to try and work on this winter is give myself reasons to go outside. You know, I love playing golf so why not try and incorporate. Can I go to the driving range first thing in the morning? Can I get there for half eight and just have half an hour. Can I trick myself into. Because that's the thing with me with PDA is it's the dangling, the carrot of I have to give some my brain something it wants. Because if I don't, nothing is happening.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah. And Play around with some visualizations. You know, you can visualize. You close your eyes and visualize yourself tomorrow morning actually getting up and being happy about it. And, you know, start playing around with those. It creates an option that wasn't there before when you. Because the brain and body don't know the difference between a real or an imagined event, when you use your imagination in that way, suddenly you're giving it an option that wasn't there before. So, yeah, play around with that.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, I'm gonna. I'm gonna try. And that's one of the things that I've always found with the sort of relationship I've had with trying to get myself up in the morning. I've never played with it. I've never. It's never been fun. It's always been a, like, negative. It's been a problem of, you should be able to do this. You should be able to get up and get outside and. Yeah, I don't. But I always feel so great when I do. And that's the difficulty, isn't it, if you beat yourself up over not being able to do it. But. But that's. That's great advice and thank you both for that. I am going to try and have more fun with getting outside during winter, and I've never really been a winter golfer. I'm really going to try this year. I'm going to layer up and get out and. Because I always feel so, so great when I do, and I have to remind myself that these things bring me joy and they regulate me and I need to fight through the. Oh, but it might. You might get sweaty when you go outside. Yeah, Yeah, I might. But think how great I'll feel when I get back in. And these are the sorts of, like, regular conversations I've got to have. So thank you both for them. It's been great to have the episode. I'm glad that we could do it. I'm sorry that we couldn't do it last week just because of the circumstances. But, hey, we got to bring it for you this time, and I've really enjoyed it. So thank you both.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yeah, thank you.

[Jordan James]

That's what I wanted to say is that when. When we were in the Lake District, like, my. My sciatica, all that, those issues, it barely came up. Honestly, it was remarkable how just being outdoors and enjoying that area, and like you said, it's that motivation to get up. So find something that. That also gives you that motivation. It's also a distracting hobby. I might recommend photography. Can't think why no, it's work for me.

[Simon Scott]

I think that's great. You know, try and fight. You know, maybe your next spin could be associated with getting yourself outside in the morning. Who knows? It could become a lifelong special interest.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, honestly, I mean, joking aside, like, everyone's got a camera on your phone. Yeah, you don't have a phone, but pretty much everyone's got a camera or.

[Simon Scott]

An iPad or whatever.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, whatever. Everyone has a phone. You don't have to take pictures like me. You don't have to sell them. You don't have to win competition. You just, Just go and take a picture. And if you live in a town, you still get sunrises and sunsets with the. Wherever you live, whatever you're doing, if you're physically capable, and I definitely learned that with you, Ashley, if you're physically capable, go and take a picture. Yeah, just. That is my advice. Just go and take a picture. Because there's nothing quite like a sunrise.

[Ashley Bentley]

Yes.

[Jordan James]

Honestly, I mean, honestly, so freaking good.

[Ashley Bentley]

Feelings of awe that we get with nature. That feeling of awe is so. It's so good for us mentally and physically, so. And nature puts on a show every day in big ways and small way. So find a way to be odd with nature and that will be really, really helpful for getting you out there.

[Jordan James]

It's helped me with my mental health, my physical health. It's just brilliant. So, yeah, thanks everyone. And this has been really good.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, thank you so much, Ashley, as always, thank you so much for joining us. Keep listening to Mindful Mondays. Every Monday this season through October, nature is the theme and I can't wait to hear those episodes. Ashley, once again, thank you so much for joining us. If you're listening to this post through Jordan's Facebook, if you've taken a picture and have a sunrise this morning, stick it in the comments. I'd love to see them. It maybe even inspire me to do the same. But as always, thank you so much for listening to the show, especially right through to the end. Be kind to yourself out there, take care of yourself, be safe if you can be safe. And we'll catch you tomorrow for the hotel. Hot Hot topic. Not as hot as last week, but still pretty hot nightly.

[Jordan James]

Bye Bye.

[Simon Scott]

Thanks for tuning in to the neurodivergent Experience. We hope today's episode sparks something for you. Whether it's a new idea, a bit of validation, or just a moment of connection. Remember, new episodes are every week, so be sure to join us for the next one for more content, conversations and insights into the neurodivergent Experience. If you've enjoyed this podcast, help us grow. You can do that by rating and reviewing this show. Your support makes a huge difference in helping us reach more people who could benefit from these conversations. You can connect with us on social media, find us on Instagram, Facebook, Tik tok. Just search for the neurodivergent experience. Thank you again for for listening and until next time, take care of yourself. You're not alone in this journey. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

[Ann Morris]

Hey there. If you've ever felt your confidence slip at work, you're not alone.

[Ashley Bentley]

The good news?

[Ann Morris]

Confidence isn't a fixed trait. It's a skill. And like any skill, you can build it with the right tools and practice. I'm Ann Morris, CEO and bestselling author, and together with my wife, Frances Frey, a professor at Harvard Business School, we host the TED podcast Fixable. This season, we're zeroing in on confidence. What it really is, how to strengthen it, and how to help others see you as the leader you already are. So if you're ready to show up with more conviction, to get promoted, to lead with clarity, to do the best work of your career, join us on Fixable. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Simon Scott]

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.