Simon Scott (2:11)

Hello. Hello and welcome back, everybody. How you doing? How you doing, Scotty?

Jordan James (2:17)

Hello. How's it going, my man?

Simon Scott (2:20)

My back.

Jordan James (2:21)

Oh, not again.

Simon Scott (2:24)

Yeah, well, I mean again, it never goes away. It's just. It shifted this time. It was, it's all. It was the lower back and the glutes. Now for some reason it's just the top right side of my back. But yeah, pain, living with it. But that is not what we're here to talk about. We're here to talk about the new Beatles Anthology documentary.

Jordan James (2:49)

The people that haven't listened to last week's episode, all about the Beatles. The Beatles. Yeah, I've been listening to them a lot. I've loved it, to be honest.

Simon Scott (2:58)

That's the week before.

Jordan James (2:59)

The week before. Oh, it was the week before. Week before. Week before next. Last.

Simon Scott (3:03)

Ah, we're losing it, man.

Jordan James (3:04)

Honestly, my head's not switched on at the minute.

Simon Scott (3:07)

Last week was prep for Christmas, and my prep for Christmas has been. Let Sylvia do the prep for Christmas. Yeah, I've. She. She's been brilliant. She's, like, taken over completely.

Jordan James (3:19)

Was.

Simon Scott (3:20)

I've. I've just been in the Christmas spirit. But as far as, like, buying presents and stuff, because I've been so busy working lately, just like, literally just so, so busy working. I just haven't had time or the spoons to even think about presents. So Sylvia's been stepping up and being an absolute superstar, and that's wicked.

Jordan James (3:42)

Carys has done the same for me. I was talking to her about the episode that we recorded with Ashley, and she went, okay, that's fine. I will buy everybody presents. Just send me the money. I was like, that I can do. Please and thank you. So that was very accommodating for me.

Simon Scott (3:57)

I've. I've used your money and I'm like, what is new?

Jordan James (4:01)

Yeah, well, anyway, that's fine.

Simon Scott (4:03)

Well, you know, it's a partnership. It's not my money. Yeah, the money. But yeah. So what are we talking about this week? We talk about the doggies.

Jordan James (4:18)

Got a little baby. Sorry. This is the new voices that have started to come out of my brain. Yes. So for listeners new and old, you may or may not know this, but I have adopted a dog. And I've had her for what has been time of recording, a week and a half. For you guys, it'll have been like three weeks. So she may be doing great. She is doing great, and I've absolutely loved having her here. But one of the things that sort of come to light to me is that I've had dogs my entire life and have never truly acknowledged how regulated and sort of calm I feel having them in my presence or literally owning one, like, the responsibility that comes from one. So I thought we would have a little chat about that today because I know for a fact so many people like you that are listening to this show own pets. Fur babies are a very, very common thing for a lot of the neurodivergent people I know in my life. So I thought it'd be a great topic to discuss with my big bro today.

Simon Scott (5:24)

And sometimes furless babies, because I know a lot of neurodivergent people that are really into, like, lizards and snakes and they. They will swear by. By their pet to the Day they die. That it is a very, very useful thing to have an animal companion.

Jordan James (5:46)

Well, a dear friend of mine who's a regular listener of the show, James.

Simon Scott (5:49)

He's not a friend. That's a deer. No, a deer.

Jordan James (5:51)

A female. No, he's.

Simon Scott (5:53)

That's so cool. Is his name Stag?

Jordan James (5:56)

He's a stag and he drives a Jag. No, it's just my buddy James. But he has a pet snake. He's got a huge fish tank in his kitchen. So every time I go around to his house, it literally I'm like a moth to a flame with it. I just walk in and just go, oh, pretty lights. And we both just like stare at it for like 10 minutes. It's like, oh, we're so autistic. It's like, yeah, but look how fun it is. But what's cool about him is he will literally sit and point and he'll go, this is this type of fish. This is where I got it and why. And he'll talk to me about. And I absolutely just love that sort of little discussion. I've had a friend who had a tarantula before to which I said to him, you do know you're only going to attract a certain type of girl having a tarantula in your bedroom. And he was like, why the do you think I have it? Rock on. But dude, love that. Not for me. And I've even got a friend who's got a hairless cat and he's called Spooky. He's creepy. I don't want to touch him. But I love that for them. That's really cool.

Simon Scott (6:53)

I do not like those.

Jordan James (6:54)

They have to have little jumpers and they've got like such little pot bellies and they sit there just like, like a little beer belly bloke at the end of a bar. They're great. I don't want to touch it, but they seem cool. I guess each to their own. But yeah, so many people have pets and I mean, you've got a right little gang of animals.

Simon Scott (7:11)

Too many.

Jordan James (7:12)

That's not just the kids.

Simon Scott (7:13)

I got a tiny dog and I got a massive dog and then I've got a humongous cat.

Jordan James (7:19)

He's a big cat.

Simon Scott (7:21)

He's the biggest cat you can buy, I believe.

Jordan James (7:23)

The biggest cat I've ever seen.

Simon Scott (7:25)

Yeah, he's a Maine coon. And he is. He is. He's bigger than. He's bigger than the small dog. Which is always hilarious because. Yeah, seeing them next to each other and then the dog's like, I'm the boss. And the cat's like, yeah, you're all right.

Jordan James (7:43)

Yeah.

Simon Scott (7:43)

Zeus is like, I am literally a God, and you are just an Ollie.

Jordan James (7:47)

Yeah. And Ollie is very sweet. He's very, very sweet. So what made you pick those specific pets? Because, obviously, I've adopted a dog. And if I'm truly honest, Nana is not a dog that I would have picked out of a lineup. Like, I never would have gone, oh, I will get a pug cross beagle. Because beagles are known to howl. They're very, very sniffy, and cannot be great with commands. And pugs have the. Which, for my misophonia could be a little bit triggering. However, my justice sensitivities completely overruled all those things, and I was like, I need to give this dog at home. So.

Simon Scott (8:24)

Yeah.

Jordan James (8:24)

How did you end up with little Ollie, Big Milo, and Zeus?

Simon Scott (8:29)

Well, when I was a kid, I didn't have any friends, and we all know about the horrendous childhood that I had. And. But the one good thing about my dad was he was obsessed. Obsessed with. With cats and dogs. Just obsessed with cats and dogs and pets and animals in general. I mean, he loved those things more than he loved us, clearly. And we. We just had so many. So we had, like, three or four cats. We had, like, two, three, four, sometimes five Samoyeds. He always bought Samoyeds, like, in the most neurodivergent way. He had the same hat that he wore, which is like an Indiana Jones hat. He wore the same. And. And. But it wasn't cool because he didn't know who Indiana Jones was. So it wasn't like. I know. Yes. He was a super dweeb. He collected stamps and trains and, like, corgi cars and coins. I can't believe we didn't know this man was neurodivergent. This is what I mean when he.

Jordan James (9:46)

Sounds like patient zero.

Simon Scott (9:47)

Yeah. There's just not enough awareness. If I'd have seen my dad was neurodivergent, my life would have been very, very different, and his relationship would have been very different. But that's not what we're talking about. Stay on track. Stay on track. I've had my meds downtrack the train track. And he. Yes, but he. He was upset, so he always had the same dogs, but I got different dogs.

Jordan James (10:13)

Oh, so they weren't your dogs, they were his dogs?

Simon Scott (10:16)

No, those were his dogs. I had two of my own dogs.

Jordan James (10:19)

Oh, okay.

Simon Scott (10:20)

So my two dogs was a Yorkshire terrier. Named Peggy. Like Peggy Sue, Buddy Holly, and Batty, whose original name is Betsy, but I changed it because she was a lunatic. Yeah, like David Batty. I know I've talked about this before, talking about a lot of stuff. Before autism, she was a cross between a border collie and Knows what.

Jordan James (10:55)

Whatever that. Whatever that was.

Simon Scott (10:56)

Other things, but she was a rescue. She was a rescue. And I just fell in love with her the moment I met her. But, yeah, essentially, those are my dogs. They slept on my bed with me. I would take them for walks, feed them. They were my dogs originally. The Yorkshire terrier, Peggy. She was meant to be my brother's dog, but she wouldn't leave me alone. And he didn't really care. Like, he doesn't have pets now. Like, he just. It's just not his thing. I eventually just sort of went, okay, you. You can come into my gang. Because I also had a cat named Timmy.

Jordan James (11:40)

Timmy.

Simon Scott (11:41)

Timmy.

Jordan James (11:42)

Tim. Tim.

Simon Scott (11:43)

It's Timmy. Timmy. He was Timmy before I even watched South Park. He was the original Timmy, which is.

Jordan James (11:49)

Funny because my dad's nickname was Tim the cat because he was a goalkeeper.

Simon Scott (11:53)

That makes a lot of sense. Your dad is a Timmy.

Jordan James (11:56)

He is. I go, oh, Timmy. Timmy goes forever. It's a regular thing we do. Yeah.

Simon Scott (12:01)

If you haven't watched south park, it just sounds weird. So go and watch south park to understand what Timmy is. Yeah, so he was. He was like a big, fluffy black and white cat who was very, very fat, just like Garfield. And so, yeah, those were my three pets when I was a kid. That was my comfort. Like my only friends in the world and the only creatures that I could rely on to not judge me and bully me or hurt me. So my. My. My pets were my everything. They were my babies. And when I. When I got kicked out at 17, I. I had to leave them all behind. I couldn't take them with me because I went. I went and lived with a family friend, and I couldn't take my dogs with me. So that was a heartbreaking time in my life. Not only was I getting kicked out, my. My home turned out for the better, but I had to leave my babies behind. But I. I'd go back and see them, you know, it wasn't like I never saw them again. But, yeah, it. Like, so when. When Sylvia and I got together, I was like, I have to have a dog. Like, I just. I have to have a dog. And she's like, oh, but, you know, because she. She's had dogs. She grew up with dogs. But, like, she Wasn't into dogs. Like I was into dogs. And so after the two kids were born, I was like, why don't we just get a little dog? So I wanted a Yorkshire terrier because of Peggy, but then we found a Yokon, which is a Bichon Frise Yorkshire terrier mix because they're hypoallergenic. Because one of Sylvia's things was, oh, we'll have pet hair everywhere.

Jordan James (13:49)

Yeah, yeah.

Simon Scott (13:50)

And I was like, okay, well let's get a hypoallergenic version of a Yorkshire, which was a Yokon, like a Yoko Ono. Yeah. So he has all the traits of a bichon with. Because bichons are circus dogs. And then he has the very, very annoying yapping of a Yorkshire terrier.

Jordan James (14:09)

It's got the bottom teeth as well.

Simon Scott (14:11)

Yeah, he's a weird looking fella, but he's cute as anything.

Jordan James (14:14)

Yeah, he's a cat.

Simon Scott (14:15)

And he's literally my best friend in the whole world. I love the little fluffer. And everyone loves Ollie, just like everyone.

Jordan James (14:22)

Loves Ollie until it's dinner time.

Simon Scott (14:24)

Until it's dinner time. But that, that's, that's a recent development because he's. He's 14 now.

Jordan James (14:31)

Every meal could be his last.

Simon Scott (14:33)

Yeah, he's become a wild coyote of like just. Or a hyena, just like that. But he never used to be like that. But yeah, he's. He's the sweetheart. And then somebody made a comment saying, that's not a proper dog. And I took that to heart, which is how I end up getting Milo, who is massive.

Jordan James (14:54)

He is big. He's a big dog.

Simon Scott (14:56)

He's a big dog and he's an old English sheepdog crossed with a poodle. So that's. I mean, I had a. I had a sheepdog, you know, a different type of sheepdog crossed with God knows what when I was younger. So essentially I've got the same crew as I had when I was a kid. And of course I've got giant Zeus. So essentially what I have actually done, the whole point of this very long story, and I do apologize for everyone listening that's bored. Is that I've just recreated my childhood. And the best bit of my childhood, which was my pets, I've created that in adulthood and there's been humongous benefits. But essentially that is exactly what I've done. I've just, I've just recreated it.

Jordan James (15:44)

Yeah. And that's what I feel like I've done recently is like, go to a break, surely. But my story is a little bit shorter. I've always had dogs in my life. My grandparents, I don't ever remember them having less than two dogs. My auntie always had Border Collies. We've had Alsatians in the family. My grandpa used to live opposite a golf course and found a little poodle at that golf course and he ended up owning it for like 15 years. Still don't know how old she was or where she came from, but she had a very long crusty end to her life. My parents had a, we had a cocker spaniel growing up called Barney and he was a lunatic. He used to trigger my mum a lot with these sensory just he was just so full on right dog, wrong time in our lives and now she's got a Yorkshire terrier mixed with a toy poodle and he's called Pip and he is her favorite child in her life. That dog has had just the the most incredible little life which has then led me to adopting Nana because I felt like a dog was something that I needed in my life. But we'll talk about why after this short break.

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Jordan James (18:04)

This is a neurodivergent experience. Public Announcement if you live in England and you or a loved one is waiting for an autism or ADHD assessment, you don't have to wait years. RTN Diagnostics is now part of the NHS Right to Choose scheme which means if your local wait for a consultant led autism or ADHD assessment is more than 18 weeks. You can choose RTN instead and it won't cost you a penny. Jordan chose RTN for his own family because their care and attention to detail were second to none. They didn't just diagnose autism and adhd, they looked at the full picture, including pda, ocd, anxiety and more. The team is friendly, neuroaffirming and comprises many neurodivergent individuals, so they truly understand getting started is simple. Download the GP referral letter and questionnaire from the link in our show notes. Take those to your GP and ask for a referral to RTN Diagnostics. If approved, RTN will be in touch within eight weeks to begin your assessment. Remember, this only applies in England and some exclusions do apply. RTN is not currently able to accept referrals for child ADHD assessments, so check the details before you start. RTN diagnostics, helping you get the answers you deserve without the weight. Welcome back to the Neurodivergent Experience. We put the dog out for a little tinkle. We're back from his break. We've been discussing the positives of, you know, owning a pet in your life as being a neurodivergent person. We've sort of shared our stories, but I'm interested, dude, what are for you, the big positives of owning a pet as a neurodivergent person?

Simon Scott (20:02)

I mean, I spoke about the positives when I was a kid, just not always feeling lonely, you know, not because there is that idea that autistic people want to be alone and I'm just like, that's just not true.

Jordan James (20:15)

Such a myth.

Simon Scott (20:17)

We want to be alone when we want to be alone, but it doesn't mean we always want to be alone. And we definitely don't want to be lonely. And that's the greatest thing about having a pet, any pet, is that you can be alone without being lonely.

Jordan James (20:32)

So true.

Simon Scott (20:34)

So it's like the perfect idea of, like, I need time to myself, so I need to be away from people. But if you're laying with, with your cat purring on your chest, that. That will give me spoons, you know, so. Absolutely. So that, that for me is the main benefit to having any animal, any pet whatsoever, is that it gives you energy. They also take it away.

Jordan James (21:04)

But we'll talk about that a little bit.

Simon Scott (21:06)

We'll talk about that later. But that's the number one benefit, is that you just don't feel alone. It also gives you a real taste of responsibility. So for a lot of neurodivergent people, Trying to be independent, want to be independent. You know, being able to look after a pet and being responsible for a pet is a really good way of preparing being responsible and looking after yourself because, you know, you have to look after yourself in order to look after other people.

Jordan James (21:40)

Absolutely.

Simon Scott (21:41)

I think that's. That, that's a really good, positive thing.

Jordan James (21:44)

Well, that's something that we talked about when I. I messaged you and was like, there's this dog that needs rescuing and I think I'm gonna do it. We had a couple of conversations back and forth. I've been quite candid about how in the post lockdown world, I have struggled to regularly get myself out of the house and, you know, go and do things and, you know, PDA plays a role in that. Absolutely. But owning Nana has forced me to develop a routine. Like my ADHD brain requires, you know, regular patterns, but also just. It will not allow me to have anything other than chaos. And knowing that Nana needs to be let down in the morning and go out for a tinkle and have her walks and things like that. I have really enjoyed this past week or so, taking her out and just literally walking around the little field that's near my house for like half an hour twice a day. And I've taken my headphones, I've, like, just walked and listened to music. There's been other times where I've just sort of, like, been present in nature. That has been such a big support for me because I do naturally struggle to force myself outside sometimes. Like, I am a home bird. And another thing as well, that has been a really nice sort of thing for me, has been the responsibility. I actually feel like even though I know that I am important in people's lives, but when that dog looks at me, I feel special. You know, like when that dog comes up to me and wants to be near me and I walk through the door and her little bum's waggling and she's just like, oh, my God, my world is home. That gives me a lot of joy and motivation. She was even sat next to me the other day and I'm doing some work and she's sort of looking at me like, what you doing? And I turned to her and I said this out loud and this is really great for me. I will be at home and I'll not talk to anybody and a word won't leave my mouth for hours. And I'm just, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. I'm chatting to it all the time. I went, well, I've got to Work. Because I've got to pay for your treats, haven't I? And I'm now, like, having cracking jokes at this dog and stuff. And I feel way more alive than I did when I was just wandering this house like a Gothic bride with the candle on my own for days on end. And I've really enjoyed having a hair. And my parents acknowledged it as well. I was talking to my dad the other day. He was here helping me rip our carpet up, put a new floor put in. And he said, it's so great, son, to see how happy you are. Like, you can. You seem so full of life and full of color. I can hear it in your voice and see in your body language. I'm really proud of you for bringing this dog into your life. I went because I think it's going to give you responsibility and routine. I was. I totally agree. I absolutely, totally agree. And I'm sat on the sofa with her the other night watching wrestling, and she's got a head on my lap. And I was like, you know what? All's right with the world. I've loved how present and not in my head. I felt just being around an animal.

Simon Scott (24:50)

Yeah, no, I absolutely agree. I mean, just. Even if they're not cuddled up on you, just to know that they're there, it just makes you just feel just less alone.

Jordan James (25:02)

They bring the house alive, don't they?

Simon Scott (25:04)

Yeah.

Jordan James (25:05)

Especially when they're barking yappy yappers. I mean, don't get me wrong, there's been a. I've had a couple of moments, but there's just been something about. I don't know, I don't know whether it's like the physical stim of it, like just fussing her and stroking her.

Simon Scott (25:19)

Yeah.

Jordan James (25:20)

But I was sat the other night just listening to a record and we talked about it in Ashley's episode. I was sat the other night listening to an Elvis record, having a, like a hot chocolate. And she was just laid at my feet and she got up and, like, laid on our bean bag that we have in the living room and just went to sleep. And my heart, dude, was just so full of, like, joy. And I just felt like, really at peace having an animal here. It's like my house feels like it's alive now.

Simon Scott (25:46)

Do you feel more Christmassy because you have the dog as well, so it almost feels more like a family.

Jordan James (25:53)

You've hit the nail on the head, dude. I was walking with Karis the other morning with her, and we were like, arm in arm with our dog and she turned to me and she went, we've gone from being a couple to a little family now. And I just burst into tears. Like, genuinely, that's because I've now been in your house.

Simon Scott (26:12)

I can imagine her on the beanbag and you two on your seat. And. And it is. It's because I know that you're not going to have kids. A lot of people. I know I'm not going to have kids, but honestly, like, having dogs is like having a permanent baby that just never grows up. It's like a permanent baby slash toddler that just never grows up. So if you're really into that, go and get a dog.

Jordan James (26:36)

Like, Caris has been experiencing it. We've got into this routine where I used to go and pick Caris up from the train station in the car, bring her home. She would have her quiet half an hour, regulate, and then I'd be like, hello, love, how was your day? And we've developed this new routine now where she will walk home from the station and I'll meet her halfway with Nana. And Karis then has that sort of like 15, 20 minutes before she gets to us where she's just by herself and just very calm and walking alone and almost like decompressing from the shit show that is working in retail at Christmas. And she said the feeling that she gets when she sees me and Nana walking towards her, and then the dog recognizes that it's her, and she runs up to her and she's so excited. She's like, it makes my day worth it. Like, that feeling. And that, for me, is beautiful. Like, it may. I feel a bit. Almost a bit emotional talking about it, because I cannot imagine not having this dog in my life now. She's been in my life for, like, two weeks, and it's almost like, you know when you have a cold and you going, oh, what does things smell like? I can't remember the smells. Like, that's how I feel about Nana. I can't imagine not having this dog in my life. Like, I wake up in the morning and I look up and I see her little face and a little tail wag. And I'm like, I'm ready to fucking take on the day now. And that is something that has been desperately missing from my life to the thing of, like. Because we've discussed it where you were like, I didn't have a freaking choice, dude. I had kids. I had to get up and get out of bed. But for me, I have really needed that responsibility. Not necessarily to, like, like, light A fire under my ass. But just to know that something that's depending on me.

Simon Scott (28:22)

Yes. 100.

Jordan James (28:23)

And if I don't do it, then it, it doesn't happen. Like, if it's only me that's dependent on it, like, if I don't eat breakfast, it's my. It's. That's on me. But if Nana doesn't eat breakfast because I've not made it for her or Caris hasn't made it for her, that's non negotiable. I've got to do it now. And if I can do it for an animal, I can do it for myself.

Simon Scott (28:45)

Yeah. Because I've definitely. Because I've just got on with my life. Like, yeah, I've struggled. I've had depression, serious mental health issues, anger issues. We've been struggling financially. Struggling, struggling with, like. But I've just got on with it. And it's all well and good. Like, you know, people go, oh, just, you know, just tough it out. Yeah. And that's, that's not helpful because that doesn't solve the, the underlying issues of why it's tough.

Jordan James (29:23)

No, no.

Simon Scott (29:24)

But I, I want to say this in the nicest way to everyone's listening. Who is struggling, getting out of bed, who is struggling, getting out of the house, who is struggling going to work, doing their job. Because I have a nephew who struggles to go to work and he works from home. Like, he struggles to work, but he's in his 30s. He doesn't have a partner, he doesn't have any pets, he doesn't have any kids. It's just him. And I do wonder within those moments of my severe depression, I mean, I'm gonna talk about something in a second. There's a little bit more emotional. But I do wonder in those moments if I didn't have Sylvia motivating me, if I didn't have my kids depending on me. And then suddenly I've also got these, these dogs as well with literally like my other pet, my other pets, my other kids. All these people are relying on me, just getting on with it. But the thing is, is that they all loved me, they all wanted to help me, they were all good for me. And it essentially, it was, it's down to me to be like, okay, I'm not going to let these people down. And I, I have. Yeah, I used to. I lost jobs because I couldn't get on with the people I worked with because I didn't understand my neurodivergence. I, I didn't understand what was Going wrong. So I kept making this. I want to say mistakes, but I wasn't making mistakes. People just didn't understand me. It was just miscommunication. And I do struggle understanding and not being empathetic, because I. I can be empathetic, but just understanding. If someone's like, oh, I've got this job, but I'm struggling to get to work, and I'm just like, there are literally people dying.

Jordan James (31:23)

Yeah.

Simon Scott (31:23)

On this planet. And they. They would, they would. They. They can't get a job. They're starving to death. They can't get access to clean water, medication. They. They. They would app. They. They would literally lose a right arm just to be able to have a job. And there's some people out there. I'm not saying that people are saying that PDA is an excuse because PDA is a reason, but I think that they're. They're saying, oh, I can't do it because of pda. For me, I'm not buying that. I'm not buying that. If someone says, I find it difficult. I'm really struggling to do this because of pda, I'm like, okay, cool, we can work with that. How. How can. How. How can you bet. But if someone says, oh, I go, I don't do that. Or I. I don't let my. I don't make my kids do that, or I don't even challenge my kids that they won't do that because of their pda. Yeah. I think that kind of grinds my gears, man.

Jordan James (32:28)

That's a slippery slope, though, because I was literally having a conversation with somebody about this only yesterday, where I was like, if you sort of cap potential, and I'm not just saying potential of achieving anything or just, you know, doing stuff. You know, you don't have to be a CEO or an astronaut to be a success. But if you sort of cap people's potential, then you've. You've set the bar at the lowest of where they were. And if you set a bar, they're only going to go below it. And I personally, you know, as somebody who really does struggle with pda, I really. I really do. And I understand how much it is a difficulty for so many people. But I. I do think if you tell a kid that they can't do something, they're never going to do it. They're not going to try. And that is a danger when.

Simon Scott (33:20)

Or that they don't have to do.

Jordan James (33:21)

Something, because then it's. It's. It's like a severe skill regression. Like if you, if a kid goes, well, I'm never ever going to make myself food. It. That's a dangerous sort of situation to be because there are a lot of kids that are autistic whose parents aren't going to be around forever. And I know that is a big worry for so many people that what's going to happen to my kid when I'm not here because I'm such a huge support for them. It's a difficult one. But a pet has helped me with that because I can, if I can feed a dog, I can feed myself. If I can walk a dog, I can walk myself. And it's been a really good sort of exercise in. I have my reasons as to why I struggle with these things, but the job still needs doing and it's that sort of like, I don't want to say like performance pressure, but if I'm going to have a dog, I have to look after it. You know, it's, it's, it's non negotiable.

Simon Scott (34:22)

Well, exactly. You have a responsibility now. And I do feel like so many people that don't have responsibilities other than finding themselves, that's a slippery slope because if they don't care about themselves, which is quite a common thing for neurodivergent people because of the way that we are abused, we end up self hating and you know, having that self worth on the floor. Yeah, yeah. I mean, my self worth is still shitty and I make up for it by, you know, my bravado or my, you know, cheeky chappy.

Jordan James (34:56)

Whereas I'm self deprecating.

Simon Scott (34:59)

Yeah, I mean, I'm also self deprecating but in, but like you can tell. But I think sometimes you're self deprecating. I'm like, I'm actually worried about it. Like I have. Fair enough.

Jordan James (35:10)

You're like, are you okay? How's yourself worth? And I'm like.

Simon Scott (35:15)

I'm like, do I need to call your mum and dad?

Jordan James (35:18)

The amount of times I make jokes and you're like, do you need a hug? I was like, oh, that didn't land. Yeah, expected it to go. Never mind.

Simon Scott (35:26)

You're depressing.

Jordan James (35:29)

Sorry everybody.

Simon Scott (35:30)

So let's have a break and then we'll get back to the doggies and look at the pitfalls of dogs. Pit bulls indeed.

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Jordan James (36:08)

Have you ever felt stuck in patterns that don't serve you, struggled with stress or wanted to connect more deeply with yourself? Then I have to introduce you to a friend of the podcast. Ashley Bentley of integrated coaching, breathwork and Hypnotherapy. Ashley is a highly experienced clinical hypnotherapist and coach specializing in working with neurodivergent minds. Through a unique blend of integrative coaching, breathwork and hypnotherapy, Ashley helps people rewire subconscious patterns, regulate their nervous systems, step into more empowered versions of themselves. Whether you're dealing with addiction, anxiety, burnout or struggles with self acceptance, Ashley offers practical and science backed tools tailored just for you. Her unique methods combine neuroscience, storytelling, subconscious transformation to create real, lasting change. Jordan and I can personally attest to the profound and transformative effects of her sessions which have been life changing. She does all of these sessions online, meaning she can work with you no matter where you are in the world. If you're ready to break free from old patterns and start living with more clarity, confidence and connection, go to Bit ly Ashleynde to book a free consultation or learn more. Welcome back to the Neurodivergent Experience. Woof. Woof. Meow, meow. It's been got to stop doing this in the second break. Every time we come out of a second break recently it's like anyway. But where were we? What we talking about? What the we talking about?

Simon Scott (37:52)

Doggies.

Jordan James (37:53)

Doggies. Hello. Woof, woof.

Simon Scott (37:54)

Yeah, we got sidetracked.

Jordan James (37:55)

Oh God. It's been a new virgin experience episode today, hasn't it? Crikey.

Simon Scott (37:59)

Yeah, it's definitely, it's definitely dogs and pda. So we could definitely. Yeah, that's the name of the episode, ladies and gentlemen, dogs and pda.

Jordan James (38:07)

So let's talk about dogs and pda.

Simon Scott (38:10)

You've heard it here first.

Jordan James (38:11)

Yes, thank you. Let's talk about some of the negatives that come with owning an animal. And one of the things that has reared its head with me just slightly with owning a dog is that they are a dog. A dog has to be a dog. You can't, you know, force it to be a person, but they're going to do what they want to do. And the autonomy thing kind of messing with my head as an example. Nana this morning saw a Squirrel on the tree. Did she bark at the back door for half an hour? Absolutely she did. Did it do my head in?

Adam Grant (38:46)

Yes, yes, it did.

Jordan James (38:48)

And it riled me up a little bit and that is kind of hard. And another example, and I've given it before, I came down to yours quite a few times, but the, the first time that I came down, I was sat having my dinner and Ollie essentially put his food in my face, or my. Is facing my food, I should say. We'll keep that in. That was a funnel and whimpered at me for the entire time that I had a meal. And it stressed me out quite a lot.

Simon Scott (39:17)

Yeah, I bet it did. I. I mean, I think for like the first few years when the dogs were younger, it was just like the things they would do wouldn't annoy me at all. It's like, I mean, most of the time a dog is what you make of it, you know, like whether you train it, whether you moddy coddle it, you know, it's. It's like, you know, a kid. Like it's a baby, big baby. And, you know, obviously I had dogs when I was a kid, but I didn't really, you know, look, laugh to look after the dog. I didn't take it to the vet and stuff like that. I was a kid. So we weren't, we weren't particularly good dog owners as far as like training the dog.

Jordan James (40:07)

Not many people are, though.

Simon Scott (40:09)

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm just. Yeah. I don't know. I don't want to put on other people. I'm just saying we just. We weren't good at training. When Milo came along, we were a lot more prepared and with Zeus, we were more prepared as well. I try to train Zeus on the toilet. That didn't go very well.

Jordan James (40:26)

Now that is something I would have loved to have been a fly in the wall for. You trying to do key in the, in the.

Simon Scott (40:34)

Yeah, we've got my little toilet seat and everything and yeah, that didn't work. But he has, you know, he's never scratched anything because we bought him a scratching post from when he was young and he's just always gone on the same scratch and post. And then Sylvia tried, basically, was all ripped apart. So she got the same scratching post but replaced the rope on it. Did it all herself, replaced all the rope and he just doesn't touch it now. He's like, that's not my rope. So it's kind of sad really, because now he just doesn't have the scratching post. So he likes using the stairs, which he never used to do. But that's a. That's the whole thing. It's like that. That is just one of the pitfalls of having a pet is that, you know, it's okay, so you're just neurodivergent in general and all of that, of the ADHD and the OCD and the freaking pda. And that doesn't necessarily make good pet owners. For us, it could do the opposite for some people. It could. They. They could end up being the best pet owners ever. But I'm saying for us, this is why we have decided, because our dogs are spoiled rotten. Like, they're not abused in the slightest. They pee in the house. Well, I mean, the little one does. The big one's really, really good. He's a good, good boy. But he's had so many medical issues. We have spent thousands of pounds because we didn't have time to get him insured. And he basically broke his hip when he was a puppy and it's just been an absolute nightmare ever since. It's. He's just, he's just been ill and he's had like a cyst in his bum that had to be fixed and like, nasty. And because of the, because of the hip thing when he was so young, we could never get insurance. So I've just had to pay vet bills after vet bills and they're brutal. Get loans. And this dog has cost me so much money, like three holidays worth of money. I'm not even joking. But we love him to bits. We love Milo so much.

Jordan James (42:46)

Oh, you do it. No doubt. You do it.

Simon Scott (42:48)

Yeah, we just do it.

Jordan James (42:50)

I took Nana to the vet and, you know, had her checked over and she's got to have like six teeth out. And she was like, if you've not got insurance, It'll cost you 600, 700 quid. I was like, and these are things that, like, really don't sort of creep into you. And as well, not, not necessarily that it's a negative, but it is something that could catch you out is get a pet plan for your, your animal, get them insured, make sure they're having good food. These are all things that you're adding on top of your to do list. And I have a to do list that is. Is important with work and things go through the cracks, like, I forget to eat. That's kind of important. Things slip through the cracks. So adding, setting up pet insurance, making sure they're chipped, are they neutered? Like, there are tasks that come with Owning a dog or a cat or any pet that are going to trigger your executive function. Like, it's not. That's, it's, it's going to happen.

Simon Scott (43:48)

Oh, no. Like 100%. Which is why Sylvie and I have said that when the kids leave and once the pets have passed on with, like, that's it. Like, we're, we're not, we're not having any more pets. It's just going to be the two of us. And the thing is, is that, you know, I would love to have another cat because Zeus is just. He's just a giant ball of squid. Oh, I love him. He's just so fluffy and so big and so chill. Like, he's just so chill. Not with everyone, as you found out.

Jordan James (44:29)

Bonked me on the head, didn't he?

Simon Scott (44:30)

But he is very chill with me. And I can literally hold him like an upside down baby and rock him and he just lays there. And I love that cat so much. And I barely ever see him. Like, when I see him, we just hang out and most of the time I don't even. Right now, I have no idea where the cat is. I know where Milo is. He'll be on my bed right now. And Ollie is like, right next to me, just passed out because he's a little grumpy old man.

Jordan James (44:57)

Nana's on the bed.

Simon Scott (44:58)

Yeah.

Jordan James (44:59)

Talking.

Simon Scott (45:02)

But that's, that's the thing is that it's, it's. That for me is the major pitfall of having a dog is that they are definitely going to die.

Jordan James (45:15)

I was gonna say this. I grieved losing my childhood dog for over a year. And it was awful. It was absolutely awful. And I've had conversations with my mom where she cannot even talk about losing her dog. Yeah, he just, the. You can see the lump in her throat. Her eyes are tearing and she's just like. I can't even talk about it happening.

Simon Scott (45:42)

I. I start welling up if I think about Ollie and anything. But he's like, he's 14. Like, I know he's hasn't had a.

Jordan James (45:52)

Good long life, man.

Simon Scott (45:54)

And I think there's. There's an episode of Derek with Ricky Gervais. Love it or hate it, there's a really wonderful moment in it where he's playing with this dog and it's a dog that goes to the nursing home and they're all playing with it, but unfortunately the dog has to be put down and he goes to the vets with, with the people who own the dog, you know, and he, he's so sad. And then he says, someone says to him, you know, he's had all love like this. This dog has always been loved. This dog has just had the best life, and that's all you can ask for. And it is sad that the dog's going, but it's happy how much of a wonderful life that dog has had. And that's how I. I've always had that in my head to help me deal with the fact that Ollie won't be here one day. I mean, even as I'm talking about it, I. I can feel myself choking up. Like, the. The idea that this little bugger, it won't be around, it's. It's just so weird. It's weird. And it's. It's doubly weird when you're neurodivergent and you. You get used to a routine of, okay, yeah, I'm gonna give him. I'm gonna let him out for a pee. I'm gonna feed him, I'm gonna, you know, give him some water. And then I get little cuddles. And every single time I sit on my recliner chair, I could hold my breath. And by the time I've let go, he'll be in between my legs, cuddled up to me. It just. It's automatic. Like, as soon as I sit on that chair, Ollie is there. I don't even know he's there. A lot of the time I look down, I'm like, he's just there because he's just part of our life, you know, and to not have him there will be very, very hard to adjust. But it's not just me. It's not just Sylvia and the kids. It's everyone else. All my family, when they come out, everyone loves Ollie. And we. We have prepared for it, you know, and. But I don't think you can ever really properly prepare for it.

Jordan James (48:05)

No. Like, I remember Barney, the dog that I had as a kid. My mum had a very strained relationship with him. He was very triggering for her. But when we went to scatter his ashes, we took him to the beach where he always used to run. And honestly, dude, it's one of the, like, most emotional experiences I've ever had. It was also, like, one of the most, like, purely spiritual. Like, you know, they're a part of your life, but you are their life.

Simon Scott (48:34)

Yes.

Jordan James (48:35)

So letting him go. It's been over 10 years, and I'm well enough, but they just. They. You're their world. And even though it's. I can't Believe how upset that's made me. It's so hard letting them go. It's awful. It's.

Simon Scott (48:54)

It's.

Jordan James (48:54)

It's awful. And it's something I talked to Caris about. I was like, you know, if we get a dog, we will lose her. Are you ready for that? And the answer was no, you never are.

Simon Scott (49:08)

No.

Jordan James (49:08)

No.

Simon Scott (49:08)

Which is, which is why I think it's. It's not only the fact that. Yeah, I mean, as Ollie's getting old, he's getting super triggering. Like, he won't leave you alone at meal times. He's always barking. He now will let him out for a pee. He'll pee and then he'll come back in and he will then pee inside as well and never do that.

Jordan James (49:28)

Cognitive, isn't it?

Simon Scott (49:29)

Yeah, he, he, Honestly, he, he's. He's such a pain in the ass. But it doesn't like. I know. I don't get angry. I love him two bits. And, you know, there's also that, that burden of, like, you know, oh, I, I travel the world, I do photography, we go on holidays and we go on lots of trips. And Simon. Yeah, well, Simon is normally. Because he lives at home, he will normally look after the dogs. You know, we're going to New Zealand next year and Simon's here to look after dogs, but Simon's moving out at, you know, 2027. He, you know, he's already saving for a house and stuff. So if, if Ollie's and, and Milo and Zeus are still here, it's like we won't be able to go on these trips unless we can get, get someone to come in.

Jordan James (50:15)

Yeah.

Simon Scott (50:15)

So there is always that. And, and I think that the idea that when they go, we just won't have any more pets. I still think we might end up with a cat. I think we might end up with a cat.

Jordan James (50:25)

I can see you with a, A cat just as, as a singular pet. Yeah.

Simon Scott (50:29)

Because I think for someone, PDA and stuff, cats are super easy to look after. They're just way easier than dogs. So I think especially as I get older, I'm finding that, you know, I, I don't have the energy, I don't have as many spoons as I, I did when I was younger. So I think that just having a cat would, would probably be just about enough for me as I get older. And I think that that's, that's the understanding of neurodivergence in yourself. You have to understand your neurodivergence, no one else's, unless you're helping them. But in order to understand you and giving yourself these accommodations and realizing it's like, yeah, I do want dogs. I. I absolutely want dogs. After Ollie goes, I would go out the next day. I. I know exactly. I would get a cockapoo and I'd call him Gizmo. Like, I already know. Exactly.

Jordan James (51:21)

I could see that.

Simon Scott (51:21)

Yeah, yeah, I already know. But.

Jordan James (51:24)

And.

Simon Scott (51:24)

And this was. This was solidified. But in the last couple of years, as Ollie's got closer and closer to the final destination and he's got more and more and more triggering, I've just gone. I'm not going to do that. I'm just going to miss him and deal with it because it's better overall, because I don't know if I can go through all that again. I just don't know if I can do that.

Jordan James (51:55)

It was one of the things that I was most apprehensive about with getting Nana.

Simon Scott (51:59)

It was one. It was the most. The most apprehensive for you.

Jordan James (52:03)

So hard.

Simon Scott (52:04)

Because when you said she was eight, I straight away went. The first thing I good was googled was how long does this dog live? That's the first.

Jordan James (52:12)

16 to 18, apparently. Apparently they're one of the longest living breeds.

Simon Scott (52:16)

Yeah, no, you've got. You've definitely got one.

Jordan James (52:18)

I might have a longevity than the previous people that. She's 8 and I could have her for 10 years if I really look after. I mean, she'll have no teeth and she'll be like the Crypt Keeper. But she's my baby. And she is my baby.

Simon Scott (52:33)

Exactly. Well, thank you everyone for listening. I hope somebody got something out of this.

Jordan James (52:39)

That's why I think every episode I finished recording and I go, I hope somebody liked it, but apparently they do, man. Apparently quite a few people do.

Simon Scott (52:47)

And we need quite a few people.

Jordan James (52:48)

Keep reminding ourselves of that, for sure.

Simon Scott (52:51)

I would like people to comment just. Just a yes in. In the comment section of this episode if we have actually helped you. Because if you listen to the Imposter Syndrome episode, you will know that we genuinely don't really believe in ourselves as much as we should do. And it would be nice to know if we are actually helping anybody.

Jordan James (53:12)

And I want to know what people have got type. Yes, yes, yes, it helps. And tell. Tell us what you've got because I am intrigued to know what animals a lot of you listeners that are neurodivergent listeners have, because we've mentioned some. But there may be like a thousand toad centipede that we forgot off the list.

Simon Scott (53:29)

I want a tarantula, but Silver has arachnophobia.

Jordan James (53:32)

No, I won't come down. I'm sorry.

Simon Scott (53:35)

Nah, Sylvia. Sylvia has arachnophobia.

Jordan James (53:37)

I'm not even out, man.

Simon Scott (53:38)

I'm not even allowed a shallob tattoo. I was going to get a shallob tattoo, the giant spider from Lord of the Rings, but I'm not even allowed.

Jordan James (53:46)

That because I know some people love them, but, like, I put one under a glass and I could hear its little boots tapping. I was nearly sick, dude.

Simon Scott (53:53)

I love spiders so much.

Jordan James (53:54)

But anyway, next time there is one in my house, I'll give you a call. You can come and get it.

Simon Scott (53:57)

Yeah, give a little kiss.

Jordan James (54:01)

Okay, well, thank you so much for listening, everybody. Your Hot topic will be in your feed tomorrow. As always, Ashley will be with you on Monday to help you start your week with purpose. I've got to go and let my dog out because she's giving me the side eye being like, oy, human, do the thing. They do that. Hi, everybody.

Simon Scott (54:19)

Picking up poop is also really.

Jordan James (54:21)

Oh, we didn't talk about the boo.

Simon Scott (54:24)

Nightly by.

Jordan James (54:29)

Thanks for tuning in to the Neurodivergent Experience. We hope today's episode sparks something for you, whether it's a new idea, a bit of validation, or just a moment of connection. Remember, new episodes are every week, so be sure to join us for the next one for more conversations and and insights into the neurodivergent Experience. If you've enjoyed this podcast, help us grow. You can do that by rating and reviewing this show. Your support makes a huge difference in helping us reach more people who could benefit from these conversations. You can connect with us on social media, find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. Just search for the neurodivergent experience. Thank you again for listening, and until next time, take care of yourself. You're not alone in this journey.

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