The Neurodivergent Experience

Re-Run: Living With Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA)

Hosts: Jordan James (“The Autistic Photographer”) & Simon Scott
Release Date: October 22, 2025

Episode Overview

In this candid and insightful rerun, hosts Jordan James and Simon Scott delve deep into the lived experience of Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA)—an often misunderstood aspect of neurodivergence, closely associated with Autism. With humor, vulnerability, and lived expertise, they break down what PDA feels like, why it’s so rarely acknowledged, and how it impacts everything from parenting and careers to creative expression and mental health.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What is Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA)?

• Definition: Jordan describes PDA as “a diagnosis of a mental health condition that is not recognized by most authorities. It is not currently recognized by the NHS. It is not recognized by schools…” (05:16)
• Controversy: The lack of institutional recognition leaves many without support or accommodations, a source of ongoing frustration.

2. Daily Life With PDA

• Internal Battles: Both hosts share how a simple demand—external or internal—can evoke intense resistance, even toward things they want or enjoy.
• Examples:
  • Jordan: “Spending money on a dash cam then not installing it—it's almost like it physically stops me from doing it. And it's so annoying.” (09:05)
  • Simon: “Even things I love, like golf, I make excuses why not to go. It's like a reverse magnet effect, pushing me away from the things I want.” (11:00)

3. How PDA Impacts Relationships and Self-Perception

• Parenting Struggles: Jordan discusses how demand avoidance has been a “huge burden as a parent,” impacting his ability to respond to his children’s needs even when he wants to. (10:00)
• Perceptions of Laziness:
  • “The amount of times I've been called lazy, dude. It's like putting a knife through your ribs.” – Simon (37:59)
  • Both note the harmful effects of being mislabeled as lazy or uncooperative.

4. Mental Exhaustion and Emotional Toll

• Frustration Cycle: The hosts detail feeling trapped in a feedback loop, where avoiding tasks leads to self-criticism, anxiety, and further avoidance.
  • Simon: “The anger that I feel with myself is toxic. And it all comes from not being able to just press frickin play on a remote.” (16:12)
  • Jordan: “It's so disabling at times, it makes me so tired just trying to do something that I actually want to do.” (15:00)

5. Society’s (Lack of) Recognition

• Medical Negligence: Neither the NHS nor schools formally acknowledge PDA, leaving sufferers without resources or accommodations.
• Workplace Stigma: “If I was to call into work and go, sorry, I can’t come in today because I’m struggling with really bad demand avoidance—you can hear the eye roll on the phone.” – Simon (23:00)
• Misdiagnosis: Especially for women, Jordan notes, PDA (and neurodivergence more broadly) often gets mislabeled as borderline personality disorder or other mental health conditions. (29:00)

6. Illustrative Examples

• Other’s Struggles: Jordan recounts friends whose PDA prevented them from seeking medical care, leading to unnecessary physical suffering: “It’s not laziness, it's not procrastination...it’s a part of his brain that just blocks him from doing something he needs to do.” (21:00)

7. CAMHS and Systemic Failures

• Child Services Critique: The hosts criticize CAMHS for only intervening after severe mental health crises, instead of earlier support. “Maybe, just maybe, you get involved before that.” – Jordan (28:17)

8. Silver Linings: PDA as Strength

• Creative Expression: Jordan credits his demand avoidance for his unique photographic style:
  “I don’t want to follow those rules...It’s my style, it’s my photography, it’s not your photography.” (44:00)
• Avoiding Impulsive Commitments:
  • Simon: “My demand avoidance stops me from committing to things I don’t really want to commit to...it helps me put a pause on being super impulsive.” (41:18)
• Personal Fulfillment: Both discuss how, despite enormous challenges, PDA occasionally offers protection against overcommitting or losing creative autonomy.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“Literally talking about it now is making me feel frustrated, because I know what that feeling feels like. And obviously, having an eidetic memory, when I think about it, I feel it.”
— Simon Scott (16:12)

“People will often see us as being lazy. And that’s just not the case. Like, if I’m being lazy, I’m quite happy to admit it, but demand avoidance is not laziness.”
— Jordan James (38:31)

“It’s like you’re drowning, and people don’t believe you’re drowning...Do I have to be floating face down in the water for people to believe I need help?”
— Simon Scott (23:36)

“If grizzly bears aren’t meant to be cuddled, then why are they so cuddly?”
— Jordan James, quoting the “quote of the week” (49:39)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Book News: 01:55 – 04:22
• Why Discuss PDA/Personal Updates: 04:50 – 05:45
• What is PDA? Institutional Neglect: 05:16 – 06:57
• Autism, Change, & Adaptation: 06:57 – 07:55
• Everyday Impact of PDA: 08:29 – 10:59
• Work, Play, Eating: The Cycle of Avoidance: 10:59 – 13:47
• Medical & Societal Frustrations: 16:12 – 23:00
• CAMHS Critique & Systemic Neglect: 27:15 – 29:18
• Misdiagnosis in Women: 29:18 – 31:54
• Negative and Positive Sides of PDA: 40:05 – 48:31
• Celebrating Listener Connection: 48:43 – 49:39
• Quote of the Week/Lighter Moment: 49:39 – 49:55

Closing Reflection

Jordan and Simon close the episode by reaffirming the complexity of living with PDA: it’s a constant battle, both in how demands are perceived and in fighting for understanding and support. Yet, their camaraderie, creativity, and determination to find positives—even in the face of ongoing systemic barriers—shine through.

Recommended For:
Anyone wanting an honest, deeply personal look at PDA, its everyday reality, why existing perceptions need to change, and how genuine neurodivergent voices push for a more accepting, inclusive world.

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