The Neurodivergent Experience – Re-Run | Pathological Demand Avoidance: The Everyday Struggle You Can’t See

Hosts: Jordan James & Simon Scott
Release Date: January 8, 2026

Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and candid episode, Jordan James and Simon Scott dive deep into the hidden struggles of Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA), an autistic profile characterized by an intense, anxiety-driven resistance to everyday demands—both from others and from oneself. Through personal stories, humor, and lived experience, they unpack how PDA shapes their daily routines, relationships, and mental landscapes, while challenging misunderstandings and encouraging compassionate support.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What is Pathological Demand Avoidance?

[08:19] Jordan:

• PDA is often dismissed by healthcare systems (e.g., NHS), but both hosts assert it’s a very real part of their lives.
• Prefer reframing PDA as an “obsessive need for autonomy” rather than simply avoidance.
• The compulsion to avoid is not a choice, but a response to intense anxiety and a need for control.
• PDA affects both external requests (chores, favors) and internal needs (hunger, going to the bathroom).

Quote:

“What pathological demand avoidance is, is it's thought to be primarily driven by anxiety and a need for control rather than intentional defiance. Individuals with PDA experience intense anxiety in response to demands, leading to extreme avoidance behaviors... This avoidance is not a choice, but a compulsion.” — Jordan [09:00]

2. How PDA Feels in Daily Life

[10:15] Simon:

• Describes PDA as a “force field” or “glass door” that slams into action at the smallest demand.
• Even enjoyable tasks are transformed into daunting hurdles once they become expectations.
• The mind instantly searches for reasons to avoid, and even self-imposed tasks trigger avoidance.
• Paradoxically, the desire for autonomy can result in complete loss of control.

Quote:

“It's like a little force field has just hit my face... I genuinely feel that force field just, like, go thump. It's like a glass door just hit my face. I went, oh, don't want to do that now.” — Simon [10:15]

3. The Power of Language and Framing

[12:20] Jordan & Simon:

• Requests phrased as favors, or offered with flexibility, trigger less resistance.
• Direct demands result in “lock brain” reactions—a hard ‘no,’ even for self-care.
• ADHD and PDA often interplay, leading to forgotten tasks even when intention is there.

Quote:

“Because it's not a demand, it's not a task. It's a request at your leisure. It's asking for a favor, which is very, very different.” — Jordan [12:21]

4. Emotional Layers: Shame, Trauma, and Fear of Failure

[17:15] Simon & Jordan:

• The fear of doing things wrong is more crippling than the fear of being told off.
• Childhood experiences, such as arguing over chores or homework, contribute to trauma fueling PDA.
• “Revenge time” behaviors: rebelling by refusing to go to bed after being forced to do something else.

Quote:

“I would rather be told off for not doing it than being embarrassed at doing it wrong.” — Simon [17:28]

5. PDA’s Pervasiveness: Even Basic Needs Become Obstacles

[29:08] Simon:

• PDA not only affects complex tasks but extends to eating, using the restroom, and self-care.
• The smallest acts (e.g., washing the car) require massive mental energy and are often put off indefinitely.
• The buildup of micro-demands leads to constant exhaustion.

Quote:

“I have to tell myself to go to the toilet every day. I will hold myself to bursting point...” — Simon [29:08]

6. Procrastination and The Deadline Rush

[37:00] Simon & Jordan:

• Tasks are often left until the last possible moment, despite anxiety and knowledge of consequences.
• The sense of accomplishment after overcoming PDA is outsized: “like beating a final boss.”
• Once momentum is achieved, it can spiral into doing too much, leading to burnout.

Quote:

“If someone says it needs to be in by the 12th, it is getting done and then sent off on the 12th at 11:59, like, just by the very end of the day.” — Jordan [37:18]

7. Strategies & Supports: Making Life with PDA Work

**[55:13] Simon & Jordan:]

• Having an understanding, non-judgmental partner is life-changing.
• Text reminders, using inclusive and supportive language, and “buttering up” can nudge past avoidance.
• Incentivizing with dopamine, making tasks fun or rewarding, is crucial for both kids and adults.
• Splitting responsibilities in partnerships according to strengths helps both partners manage their challenges.

Quote:

“Having somebody who understands me has been the absolute game changer... Even if it's just sending me a little text going, don't forget there's washing in the washing machine. Loads of love hearts. That is so much more helpful than her just going, ‘by the way, you need to empty the dishwasher.’” — Simon [55:13]

8. Accommodations and Self-acceptance

[68:09] Simon:

• Accepting disability, not laziness, is key for self-compassion.
• Shame and internalized ableism must be named and challenged.
• Celebrate small wins; being a “cheerleader” for yourself and others is vital.

Quote:

“I've had to come to terms with the fact that I am disabled. I'm not lazy, I'm disabled. I struggle with things and I've had to really let that in, soak it in, and not be afraid to hand something over to somebody without ruminating or, you know, that rsd, that perception, thinking how what they think of me, I've just had to sort of, in a way, let go. But that's been very freeing.” — Simon [69:09]

9. Advice to Parents, Partners, and the Neurodivergent Community

[70:31] Jordan:

• Be a cheerleader. Swap criticism for gratitude and encouragement, even for “small” tasks.
• Understand that PDA affects everything. It’s not about defiance or laziness, but an ongoing, invisible struggle.

Quote:

“Just remember how difficult things are for you when it's not your thing and it's not for you. And just try and put yourself in the other person's shoes. Try and have that empathy... Even if it's not a big thing, make it a big thing, because that can motivate somebody to be like, you know, that was worth it.” — Jordan [70:31]

Notable & Memorable Moments

• Simon’s vivid metaphor for PDA as an “invisible force field” [10:15]
• Honest admissions of nearly “peeing themselves” due to avoidance, underscoring how fundamental the struggle is [29:08]
• Humorous takes on household chores, car washing, and the “revenge time” cycle after being forced to do something unwanted [18:30, 30:45]
• Jordan describing keeping a bedside table clean as his “final boss battle”—a comic yet poignant illustration of PDA’s impact [23:36]
• Both hosts rallying for increased awareness, compassion, and realistic accommodations for neurodivergent people and kids: “Celebrate the wins!” [71:49]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [08:19] — What is PDA, and why is it misunderstood?
• [10:15] — How PDA manifests in daily thoughts and behaviors
• [15:48] — The ‘book analogy’—PDA and motivation
• [17:00] — Shame and trauma: “I’d rather be told off than embarrassed”
• [29:08] — Even basic needs (eating, toileting) become PDA battlegrounds
• [37:00] — Deadlines, procrastination, and ‘the adrenaline push’
• [55:13] — Support, understanding, and the power of kindness
• [61:14] — Making mundane tasks fun with incentives and accommodations
• [68:09] — Disability vs. laziness: self-acceptance and partnership balance
• [70:31] — Empathy, cheerleading, and advice for allies

Conclusion

This episode is a powerful, validating exploration of life with Pathological Demand Avoidance—layered with the warmth, wit, and lived wisdom of hosts Jordan and Simon. Their stories emphasize that neurodivergent struggles are real, pervasive, and worthy of compassion. By shifting language, embracing accommodations, and celebrating every success, we can create more understanding, empowering spaces for those navigating PDA and neurodivergence.

Top Quotes:

• “It's not about intentional defiance. It's about anxiety. It's about trauma. It’s about this need for autonomy that can completely paralyze you.” — Jordan [09:00]
• “Celebrate the wins, even if it's small—every win is a win.” — Simon [71:52]

Listen for:

• Honest, relatable accounts of everyday PDA moments
• Practical advice for partners, parents, and the ND community
• The message: You’re not alone. Celebrate every win, no matter how small.

For more, follow the hosts:

• Instagram: @theneurodivergentexperiencepod
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• YouTube: @TheNeurodivergentExperience