What School Taught Us (That It Shouldn’t Have)

Summary

The Neurodivergent Experience

Episode: What School Taught Us (That It Shouldn’t Have)
Hosts: Jordan James & Simon Scott
Date: October 15, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this deeply personal episode, Jordan James and Simon Scott dive into their formative experiences navigating the school system as neurodivergent individuals. They examine damaging messages, systemic failings, teacher and peer bullying, and how school shaped their self-perception—often in ways it shouldn’t have. The conversation is raw and vulnerable, filled with humor, honesty, and moments of reflection, highlighting the urgent need for genuine change in education.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Reality of School for Neurodivergent Kids

• Broad Strokes of Trauma
  Both Jordan and Simon describe school as more traumatic than nurturing, with bullying, misunderstanding, and rigid norms overshadowing any positives.

  • “I miss school so much. I wish that I could go back there, but only so I could punch various teachers in the face.” – Jordan (06:03)
  • “Every single neurodivergent person I speak to…we have absolutely nothing in common except…how we were treated. And 90% of it comes from our time at school.” – Simon (07:12)

• Age and Systemic Differences
  Jordan attended school in the 80s, Simon in the late 90s and 2000s. Despite changes over time, both experienced similar neglect and abuse.

  • Playful banter about Jordan being “so old” highlights the frustrating persistence of these problems (08:21).

Teacher and Peer Bullying

• Corporal Punishment and Humiliation
  Jordan recounts a time when physical discipline, even violence, was normalized.
  • “Because I was disciplined in a very obvious way of being hit and smacked and beaten down. Picking on a tiny child…makes you feel good, doesn’t it, fuckers.” – Jordan (09:00)
  • Simon echoes the emotional violence he suffered, especially from teachers who labeled him disruptive or inadequate rather than understanding underlying needs (12:41).

The Double-Edged Sword of Achievement

• Masking and Burnout
  Jordan excelled academically, but at the cost of immense anxiety and masking:

  • “I burnt myself out so much just trying to stay above everyone else or just keeping up with the other kids in the top class... It was a detriment to my own health.” – Jordan (17:14)

• Process vs. Outcome
  Both faced unfair scrutiny for “how” they arrived at answers, with their unique problem-solving dismissed or penalized.

  • “I can’t show you what just happened in my brain because I don’t understand it. You’re not going to understand...because I don’t even understand it, bro.” – Jordan (19:08)
  • “How does it matter if we get to the same destination?” – Simon (19:18)

Different Trauma Responses

• Fighting vs. Freezing
  Jordan fought back against bullies (becoming “the problem”), while Simon internalized blame and became passive (“rolled over and showed my belly”).
  • “I was always so quiet. But as soon as I started getting bullied…I wasn’t going to survive this if I didn’t fight back…Of course I, that makes me the problem.” – Jordan (09:47)
  • “I just rolled over and showed my belly…and then every time my parents would ever speak to other teachers about this, I wasn’t told I was a problem child…I was told I needed to get a backbone and toughen up.” – Simon (12:41)

Impact of School Transitions

• Instability and Rejection
  Both hosts moved schools frequently, compounding feelings of alienation.
  • Jordan moved 5 times before age 16, often due to unsafe or unsupportive environments, reaching a point of “school refusal” following severe bullying—which he points out is a misnomer, since he loved learning (24:06, 26:21).
  • Simon was rejected by multiple schools, with parents having to “buy” his support needs. Each move reinforced self-blame and a sense that “everything is your fault” (32:40).

Adults Perpetuating Harm

• Teachers as Bullies
  Simon and Jordan discuss teachers who openly humiliated, excluded, and even joined in on student bullying:
  • Simon was told by teachers, “We’re not saying you’re asking for it…but you’re asking for it.” and a teacher explicitly undermined him in front of the class (34:58).
  • Both were excluded from sports teams despite obvious skill, purely due to social exclusion (35:42).

Powerful, Lasting Messages

• Internalized Worthlessness
  Both internalized the belief that adverse things happen because they “deserve it.”

  • “Every time I come up against any adversity, the first thought is, ‘Of course this happens, because you’re you and you deserve it.’” – Simon (39:52)

• Success Despite, Not Because of, School
  Career achievements (Simon starring in school plays, Jordan teaching and advocating) happened in spite of school, not because of it.

  • “Every success that I have is like in spite of them. I’d love to meet those people who said I’d never do anything and say, ‘Check this shit out.’” – Jordan (38:11)

Broader Societal Issues

• Generational Trauma & Social Media
  Both note the issues are now exacerbated by social media and the “example” set by adults online.

  • “Adults bully each other on social media as if they were little kids in the playground…so then their kids are gonna do it.” – Jordan (44:57)

• The Challenge of Change
  Jordan expresses frustration that despite increased awareness and resources, core issues persist.

  • “How are we in the same position where we’re so aware of everything and yet…these problems are still arising?” – Jordan (43:39)
  • Both discuss homeschooling as an alternative, but highlight the privilege required to access it.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Survival and Self-Blame

  • “Everything that went wrong was my fault and I was told that I was too disruptive, I was too much, I didn’t focus enough." – Simon (12:41)
  • “The only thing that changes is the uniform.” – Simon (27:59)

• On Finding Support & Redemption

  • “She [Sylvia] saved me, dude. She came into my life when I was ready to just give up…She’s the greatest person I've ever met in my life. I owe her everything.” – Jordan (28:02)
  • Mutual affirmation:
    • “I love that I can talk about this with you. I love that you care. Like, I love you, dude.” – Jordan (52:05)
    • “You’re like my brother. I don’t have any siblings, but I do. It’s you.” – Simon (52:23)

• On School Lessons

  • “School was where all I learned was that I was a problem and everyone else hated me.” – Jordan (46:14)
  • “I don’t even like acknowledging that I even went to school. It all feels like one big grey blur. But, you know, I feel like we’ve created a genuine safe space for us to talk about our freaking trauma." – Simon (53:18)

• Dark Humor Coping

  • “Suck my balls, Mr. Garrison.” – Jordan (52:52)
  • Simon calls out a teacher who looked like Mr. Garrison in approval (53:11).

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [06:03] – School as trauma and bullying; the problematic “narratives” neurodivergent students are given
• [09:00] – Corporal punishment, lack of support, violence
• [12:41] – Different trauma responses; blame and lack of understanding at home/school
• [17:14] – Burnout and masking; high achievement as survival mechanism
• [19:08] – Invalidation of neurodivergent thinking; “show your working out”
• [24:06] – The pain of multiple school moves, “school refusal,” and the truth behind poor attendance
• [34:58] – Teachers magnifying bullying; exclusion from activities
• [38:11] – Life achievements “in spite of them”
• [43:39] – The ongoing challenge, changes not improving core problems
• [46:14] – Schools teaching “you are the problem”
• [51:03] – The impact on future parenting decisions, fear for next generation
• [52:05—53:18] – Closing affirmations; mutual support; finding spaces to heal

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Closing Thoughts

Jordan and Simon close by affirming that while talking about school trauma never gets easier, sharing truth breeds connection and hope. They encourage listeners, especially parents, to advocate for their children—and remind neurodivergent adults that they are far from alone.

“We are successful at what we do. We are great at what we do in life. We’re not perfect. No one is. But we are killing it considering most people put us down and thought we are beyond hope…look at us. We’re doing all right, aren’t we?” – Jordan (54:20), Simon (54:28)

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Next episode: Drops next Thursday, continuing the conversation and offering hope and community for neurodivergent listeners and their allies.

Transcript

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[Simon Scott]

Her story Acast powers the World's Best Podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

[Lexi and Nicole]

Are you a fantasy reader looking to cure your book hangover? Then welcome, welcome, welcome to the Fantasy Fangirls podcast. I'm Lexi, older sister and fantasy lore nerd. And I'm Nicole, younger sister and romantic at heart and we love exploring these stories, worlds and characters well beyond the last page. Fantasy Fangirls is not your typical book. Deep Dive Podcast when we say deep Dive, we mean Deep Dive where every episode covers a stretch of chapters and is structured with five segments to easily follow along. We are currently Deep Diving Quicksilver by Callie Hart in the lead up to its highly into anticipated sequel, Brimstone. We're so excited. We hope you join us as we travel through the Quicksilver to dive deep into literary and character analysis, theories, lore, themes and so much more.

[Simon Scott]

ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.

[Jordan James]

Welcome to the Neurodivergent Experience podcast, a podcast where we share the lived experiences of neurodivergent people to help create a better understanding for our community.

[Simon Scott]

Join us every week as we bring you honest, raw and inspiring conversations with specialists, advocates and individuals who know exactly what it's like to live the neurodivergent experience.

[Jordan James]

I'm Jordan James, a neurodivergent specialist, father of neurodivergent children, husband to a neurodivergent wife and author of the Autistic Experience. And I'm joined by my best friend, I'm Simon Scott.

[Simon Scott]

I'm an autistic ADHD broadcaster Actor and advocate, join us as we journey into unraveling the neurodivergent experience.

[Jordan James]

And hello, and welcome back to the neurodivergent Experience. Scotty, how you doing?

[Simon Scott]

That is me. Yeah, I'm good. I'm good, I'm good. I'm very stressed. Work's busy, but I'm good.

[Jordan James]

I feel so long since we last spoke. It's at least five minutes.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, you. You're ruining the magic trick again. No, it's fine. No, we've literally just recorded another episode and it. Yeah, it's. Yeah, well, God, schools, man. Schools. Skulls. But anyway, we'll get on that in a second.

[Jordan James]

I'm.

[Simon Scott]

I'm pretty good, dude. I'm a lot healthier and happier than I've been. I'm not feeling as burnt out, but I also have like a redonkulous to do list with work and all that. Oh, God. You get your dream job and then it's actually work. Christ.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, it's not. It's not a dream, it's a nightmare.

[Simon Scott]

Nice, nice.

[Jordan James]

My dream job.

[Simon Scott]

We.

[Jordan James]

I was talking about this with Sophie because Sophie's at that precipice of like, what are you going to do with your future? Where's she gonna go? And her and Chris, you know, they're looking for jobs, they're looking for their future. And Sylvia just turned around and went, just do a job. At the end of the day, no one likes their job. And I was like, I'm really hoping that when I pay my mortgage off and I can semi retire, right, Move to Pembrokeshire. That's my dream. Move to Pembrokeshire. In about 10 years time, I can quit my security job. And my plan is to be a photography teacher, like specifically for neurodivergent people or just disabled people in general, but also run an Airbnb, you know, so. And I'm like, I think I'd love my job. Like, I'd literally be running Airbnb and doing photography workshops and doing. Hopefully still doing this as well. Like, that would be amazing. So podcast of photography teacher and Airbnb owner. And I'm just like, that. That sounds lovely. In. In. In Pembrokeshire, just. Just outside 10B, just enjoying life. And I'm like, yeah, so that, that's. That's where my focus is.

[Simon Scott]

I'm.

[Jordan James]

I'm just there because I think that sometimes when the world gets me down and work gets me down and politics gets me down and things get me down, it's really nice to have a plan, to have a focus.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, Hell, yeah. Don't get me wrong, I'm more focused than I've ever been on anything. But I'm also, I'm older than you.

[Jordan James]

I've. I've. Yeah, I'm. I'm closer to. To the end. Yeah. That's life.

[Simon Scott]

Life, life.

[Jordan James]

That's my advice. If you get into your 40s and you don't have a plan for retirement, get one. Because mentally it helps you.

[Simon Scott]

And I'm there going, if you're at 14, you're only just thinking about retirement. You're already booking.

[Jordan James]

I only figured out about four years ago.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, yeah, that's fine.

[Jordan James]

Well, I mean, pension's a pension in it.

[Simon Scott]

I know. What, you know what's funny is we're just here just waffling about work, but unfortunately, there's something that you've got to get through before you can start working. Isn't the. Jordan and both of you and I went through it and we hated it, didn't we?

[Jordan James]

Oh, no. It was the time of my life. It was. It was. I. I will. I. I miss. I miss school so much. I wish that I could go back there, but only so I could punch various teachers in the face. Not, not having to go to teachers, just these teachers that mercilessly made my life a living hell because I was, quote, unquote, slower than the other kids or easily distracted, as a lot of my report cards would say. He could do so well if he just put his mind to it.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, he would do so well if he wasn't who he was.

[Jordan James]

I'd have done so well if I'd had bethel fenadate in the 80s.

[Simon Scott]

Honestly, I crave school like a twisted testicle, my friend. It is it so much.

[Jordan James]

I'm just thinking about testicle. I was like, yeah, I wonder if Sylvia's into that.

[Simon Scott]

But anyway, that's also for the late night show. We'll put that one behind the paywall, I guess. But yeah, so today we're talking about school. Our previous hot topic covered, you know, the documentary that discussed, you know, school and send and the HCPS and all of this sort of stuff. So we thought that we would, as we always do on a Thursday show, share a bit of our life experiences and, you know, try and normalize it and make you not feel so on your own. Because every single neurodivergent person I speak to, Jordan, could not be more different. You know, I feel like I hate sort of having this rhetoric, but I can't kind of escape it. It's like the neurotypical npc. Right. And then you'll just meet, like a neurodivergent person. You go, oh, really cool character. Oh. We have absolutely nothing in common except one thing, how we were treated. And 90% of it comes from our time at school. And I didn't have a great time, you didn't have a great time. So today we're going to share our experiences on why none of us seem to have a great time with school, but we also have the fun perspective of our age difference. Because you went to school a time when I was in a completely different sort of system. Yeah.

[Jordan James]

We had to build her own fire, find safety from Sabertooth tigers.

[Simon Scott]

Was the cane still involved?

[Jordan James]

No, it was the club. It was, it was a physic. It was, it was a club. We used to get clubbed.

[Simon Scott]

How was it when you were sent away during the war? Did you go to the nice Mr. Tom?

[Jordan James]

I. I did, yeah. Oh, God, you treated me well. You know what? Yeah, you. When you come down, I'm gonna smack you.

[Simon Scott]

What was it like when Churchill announced that the war ended?

[Jordan James]

It was scary.

[Simon Scott]

Gathered around the wireless, he went, oh, yes, that was, that was. No, but seriously happen.

[Jordan James]

So, yeah, I went to school in the 80s where perms were acceptable and the best movies were made ever. So that, that's, that, that's my. That was my experience in the 80s, just. Just being constantly told that I was a naughty child. Just, just all. Doesn't matter how well I'd put my mind to it, of being like, okay, because I was disciplined in the very obvious way of being hit and smacked and beaten down. Because, you know, hitting kids is such a brave thing for an adult to do. You know, picking on a tiny child and. But that makes you feel good, doesn't it, fuckers.

[Simon Scott]

I laugh, but it's.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, I laugh, mate. It's pathetic. Honestly, the amount of conversations I've had with people who are like, oh, some kids just need a smack, mate. You need a smack. But anyway, I digress. Having been that kid that was disciplined like that, I. I became violent. Shocking, right? So I, I decided that I was not going to take it. And when I was bullied, I would. I would just hit the kids. And that, that, that was in, that was in primary school. I was always. When I was really, really young, I was so quiet. Super, super quiet. But as soon as I started getting bullied, as soon as I started being picked on, I very quickly realized that I, I wasn't going to survive. Survival instinct. I wasn't going to survive this if. If I didn't fight back. So that's what I did. Like, I was pushed into a corner like a scared dog, and. And I bit. And of course I. That makes me the problem. I. I was the problem because I fought back. So it's. It's kind of just like, well, where, Where, Where. Where. Where are you supposed to go in that situation? Well, I don't want to be bullied, but if I fight back, I'm a. I'm a bad kid. And I mean, it was. That's just adults bullying you. And then I'd go home and then I'd have all the abuse at home. I have physical scars where my mother cut me with a can opener, which was fun. Then the emotional bullying as well, of just constantly being told that everything was my fault, that every time anything physical happened to me, that was because I deserved it because I was a bad kid. So it wasn't, it wasn't just, oh, you have now physical pain or you are physically frightened every time an adult raises their hand. But then, Then, then you get blamed for it. Like, it's. It's. Sorry. I'm getting really upset.

[Simon Scott]

I'm sorry, man.

[Jordan James]

Yeah. Oh, God. Yeah. I always thought I was. Think, oh, it's okay to talk about this. And then I remember was fucking scary, dude. And it was like, no wonder I was. I became so violent and so angry.

[Simon Scott]

Because it's the world you knew, man. That's. It's not your fault. And that's the worst thing when they tell you it is your fault. And I'm not, I'm not trying to take over to, to make the conversation about me. I'm just giving you a bit of breathing room. But I had such similar experiences at school. I did not have the home life that you had, but I felt like everything that went wrong was my fault. And I was told that I was too disruptive. I was. I was too much. I didn't focus enough. And then, like, I would come home and my parents would be like, who is this kid that these teachers are explaining? Because this is just not our son. And I actually got taken out of school by my parents, and they sent me to another school, and they told my parents they didn't want me because of who I was. And every single feeling after that, being an adult, every time anything went wrong, I went, well, you deserve this. This is what people like you get. And I've had experiences where I've been bullied by teachers, I've been bullied by kids, and I Had the complete opposite reaction to you, dude. I just rolled over and showed my belly. And every single time my parents would ever speak to other teachers about this, I wasn't told that I was a problem child or I was too violent. I was told I needed to get a backbone and, and toughen up. And I felt like every single time there was ever a kid that had a problem with me, it never got dealt with. And even when it did get dealt with, it never got, it never got dealt with. It just got moved. And I mean I've had, oh man, I've had some unusual experiences with violence. Like I've had multiple kids push me into a room and kick lumps out of me. I had two kids wrapped my hands with a belt and put my hands over a hook behind a door and then they whipped me with their belts. What the pe? Yeah, man. And then I also had one particular drama teacher dress me down in front of an entire classroom because I questioned some of the casting that he'd made in a school play. And it wasn't even me challenging his authority. It was me being a bottom up processor going, I'm intrigued by some of the casting decisions you've made. Are just interested as to why you've done that. Because I'm interested in how casting works.

[Jordan James]

Oh, questioning teachers is, oh man, dude.

[Simon Scott]

I got dressed down like you wouldn't believe, man.

[Jordan James]

That's the thing is that the neurodivergent mind is so inquisitive. It's just like we, we don't like to accept things. You know, it's a huge part of me being demand avoidance is my, I, I don't accept what someone is saying. I don't trust what people are saying. So I'm not, I'm not going to do what they told me to do. That's not all of it. That is just a huge part of it is, it's a trust thing. And I became so mistrustful of, of every adult because I didn't have any adults who I could trust. You know, I mean there were some teachers that, that were good. But the thing was, is because like we talked about in the Hot Topic and with the Kelly Bright documentary, because I didn't have send, I didn't have to pay. I wasn't classed as learning disabled even though I'm dyslexic, autistic and ADHD and dyspraxic. It's, it was, it was crazy. And, and this is almost when in fact I said almost, this went against me. Is the fact that because of my intellect, I was a high achiever, so I was in the top of all the classes. So I was, I was really, really good at learning. But so much of what I was doing was out of fear or like, like a desperate need to not be told off. A desperate need to impress. Like, I have to impress. And I burnt myself out so much. Just trying to stay above everyone else or just keeping up with the other kids in the top class.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

And like, I should have had help. I should have had extra time in exams. I should have had all this support. Because the fact is, is just because I can keep up, it, it doesn't, that's the thing. I'm, I'm, it's, it was at my, it was a detriment to my own health. I was keeping up with them. So they, they, they were as smart as I was, but they didn't have the learning disabilities that I had, so they were cruising. And I saw this by the fact that most people would get their work done really, really fast. Like, let's say maths, equations, maths particularly. So I was in the top group for maths. And everyone else would be like, yeah, there's the answer. And I'd be sitting there still figuring it out because my brain doesn't go A to B, it goes A, D, G, z, f, b, 7, 7 equals minus. Got there. So my brain's essentially, it's doing the same thing. It's, it's, it's almost like my brain was like, oh, I'm gonna make this more difficult for you. Just, just for shits and kicks, let's.

[Simon Scott]

Just spice it up. Just because.

[Jordan James]

And instead of a teacher being patient and waiting the. Oh, God, this is so hard. He pointed me out and be like, what's taking so long?

[Simon Scott]

Oh God, I've had that.

[Jordan James]

And I'm like, horrible. I'm still doing it. And they're like, well, everyone else is finished. And I'm, I, I can see that. I, I can, I can see that everyone else has. I'm still doing it. And the worst thing is that you get there and you're like, okay, I've got the answer. And they go and show me your workings. And I go, are you kidding?

[Simon Scott]

Show killer.

[Jordan James]

I can't show you what just happened in my brain because I don't understand it. You're not going to understand what's happening in my brain because I don't even understand it, bro.

[Simon Scott]

I got kicked out of a class for this exact conversation. I got an answer and he went, show me you're working out. And I was like, sir, with respect, I said, how does it matter if we get to the same destination? He was like, stop talking back to me. Right, okay. And then the girl next to me piped up with a rather nasty comment and I told her to piss off. And then I got kicked out the class. And this was what, 12, 13? And you know, I've had it where I've had selective mutism at school many times, and the amount of times where I've been called out to answer something and I can't get it out. And I've literally had teachers go, come on, spit it out. You just, like, just want the world to sort of swallow you up. But unfortunately for me, this happened after I'd moved schools for the second time, which is another thing that you and I have in common. So I think what we'll do is we'll give ourselves a little bit of a break because this is an important conversation. And like with every show that we do, guys, we want to share our experiences, but it doesn't always make it easy. So we're going to take a little bit of a break.

[Jordan James]

Yeah.

[Simon Scott]

And we'll be back.

[Jordan James]

Our real moment audience. I am now in embrace with my Pennywise cuddly toy because I am really upset. So. Right. See in a minute.

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A mochi moment from Mark, who writes, I just want to thank you for making GLP1s affordable. What would have been over $1,000 a month is just $99 a month with Mochi money shouldn't be a barrier to healthy weight. Three months in and I have smaller jeans and a bigger wallet. You're the best. Thanks, Mark. I'm Mayra Amit, founder of Mochi Health. To find your mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com Mark is a Mochi member compensated for his story.

[Simon Scott]

This is a neurodivergent experience. Public announcement. If you live in England and you or a loved one is waiting for an autism or ADHD assessment, you don't have to wait years. RTN diagnostics is now part of The NHS Right to Choose scheme, which means if your local wait for a consultant led autism or ADHD assessment is more than 18 weeks, you can choose RTN instead and it won't cost you a penny. Jordan chose RTN for his own family because their care and attention to detail were second to none. They didn't just diagnose autism and adhd, they looked at the full picture, including pda, ocd, anxiety and more. The team is friendly, neuroaffirming and comprises many neurodivergent individuals, so they truly understand. Getting started is simple. Download the GP referral letter and questionnaire from the link in our show notes, Take those to your GP and ask for a referral to RTN diagnostics. If approved, RTN will be in touch within eight weeks to begin your assessment. Remember, this only applies in England and some exclusions do apply. RTN is not currently able to accept referrals for child ADHD assessments, so check the details before you start RTN diagnostics, helping you get the answers you deserve without the weight. Welcome back to the Neurodivergent Experience with Simon Scott and Jordan James. Not the easiest one for us. Today, we're discussing school and our experiences. It's both something and I that Jordan have discussed at length, but sometimes never gets easier. But it's such a, such an important subject for so many people that listen. We have so many parents, you know, that listen to this show, as well as young adults that are all trying to make sense of whatever that shit show was, that is school. And unfortunately, one of the things that so many of us share and have in common, and I know it's certainly something that you and I have, Jordan, is that we. We've not stayed through the same school, we've moved. How many times did you move school?

[Jordan James]

I moved three times.

[Simon Scott]

So four schools?

[Jordan James]

No. Oh, my God. It's more than that. If you talk about primary school as well, it's 1, 2, 3, 4. Oh, my God. 5.

[Simon Scott]

Five schools before you were 16?

[Jordan James]

Yeah. The fifth one was where I took my GCSEs. I say took monumentally up my GCSES, because that was just after my, my brother died and I just didn't give a. About anything and I got no support. But yeah, I, I went from being a. An aggressive child because I, it was always a conundrum because I got, I got suspended and threatened with expulsion and stuff, but my grades were impeccable and I kept saying to him, look, I'm being bullied. Like, one kid bought a knife to school and Pulled a knife out of his bag and said that he was going to stab me after school and showed me the knife. All because another kid told that kid that I'd said that his mum was a prostitute. I didn't even know this kid. And the reason why this one kid said this to this other kid is because that other kid tried to fight with me and I sorted him out.

[Simon Scott]

So he put it. To put it in a light way. Yeah, he.

[Jordan James]

He tried to have a fight with me. I put him on his ass. Then he decided to get me back by telling this other kid who had a nefarious background to. In the nicest way, his family had gone to jail. They'd been involved in violent crimes. Yeah, not nice people. And that wasn't me. The only time I. I was violent at all was when I was pushed. Like, I wasn't a violent person. I didn't go out and threaten to stab people or rob shops or anything like that. But that, that family did. He had a reputation and I, I was terrified and I went and talk to him and he. He wouldn't listen. So I went to the school and I just faked being sick and I, I went home and I told my parents and I just wanted them to leave it. But Rainer, my birth mother, she decided to make a big thing of it and went to the police.

[Simon Scott]

Oh, shit.

[Jordan James]

And blew it up big time. And I got even more threats and everyone turned against me. I was then called a grass and all this other stuff and I was just relentlessly bullied. And then I, I just ended up refusing to go to school. I. I was like, I'm not going in. A couple of times I'd be walking up the stairs, people would get to the top of the stairs and they'd spit on my head as I was walking upstairs. Like, Like a, like at least four or five kids just spitting on me. So I would just not. I just wouldn't go to class. And then I'd get told off because I didn't go to class. And it's like the school was just. It was my fault, was my fault, you know, I didn't do this or I didn't do that. And I just ended up going, well, I'm just not. I ended up not leaving the house. I better left my bedroom for months. And they call it school refusal. And I hate that because I didn't have a problem with the learning at all. I enjoyed learning. I still do. I love finding out things. I love facts. I enjoyed being really good at something because I was always praised by my teachers as being so smart and so clever and, you know, he's so good. But, like, I was bullied, man. I was scared. It sucked. And then I moved. That's when I moved again. It's so crazy. I don't know. This is for you, but, like, it's almost like it all blurs into one.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah. The only thing that changes is the uniform.

[Jordan James]

It was like, every time it was the same thing. Kids didn't accept me, Teachers didn't accept me, parents didn't accept me. My own parents didn't accept me. And I said, my brother was the only one. And then when he was gone, it was like, what's even the point? Like, everyone hates me. I'm terrible. I'm awful. And that's the thing, is that a lot of people, they don't quite understand my relationship with Sylvia, is that they will go, oh, they're sweet, they're in love, and they're a lovely couple. They don't understand because she saved me, dude. She came into my life when I was ready to just give up, because people in Poland, people were talking about how terrible I was. I was internationally terrible. So because I have family in Poland, they. They were saying how terrible I was because Raina would then talk to her family and say how terrible I was. So even before Sylvia came over, she had this idea of, like, I was just a nightmare. I was terrible, this person. And then she met me and she saw past all that. She's. She's the greatest person I've ever met in my life. I owe her everything. And this is more than love, dude. It's more. And I know this wasn't what the episode was meant to be about, but this is how I'm trying to deal with talking about it is just trying to find the positives because my life is so good now. So good. But when I go back, it's so scary. I don't know how I got here. I don't know how I got from that person who was just so frightened and so abused. I don't know how I got here. But I do know that it was Sylvia that did it. But. Yeah. So what was it like changing the schools for you?

[Simon Scott]

Well, it's a weird one because I moved schools, so I was at a primary school until about year three, and then my parents took me out of that school. And one of the reasons as to why they took me out of that school was they went in and said, no, Simon's grades are slipping, but he's a high reader. He can, you know, I was reading Harry Potter books, you know, seven, eight years old, I was reading 300 page books. So my parents essentially like went into school and was like, what is happening? And she was like, I can't remember her name but I remember her face vividly. And she was essentially to my parents was like, well, I'm sorry, Mrs. Scott, I've got 38 other children that need, need supervising and your son's just, you know, all of this. And I actually got taken out of school by my parents and I don't remember it being that long, but when I was talking to them it was about a month and the bit that was the most sort of traumatizing for me and if I'm honest, I've still regularly have counseling and I still discuss this because of the sort of feelings and, and the emotion of it all. But I remember going to, ironically, the school that I ended up going to after the one that I went to next in Doncaster. And I don't know what I did wrong that day, dude, they, they didn't want me. They told my parents, sorry, we don't want you. And it wasn't a case of going to a comprehensive school. My parents made the financial decision to put me in a school that they paid for so that they knew I was going to be in smaller classrooms, I was going to have better education and, you know, attention and to essentially pay for support needs that I needed. And you know what, man? They turned around and they went, sorry, we do not want your son. And the bit that was something that I still am processing and trying to get through is that I remember coming downstairs and seeing my parents in bits at like 6 or 7. And in that whole experience, what I took from that was, this is your fault, this is happening. All. Everything that your mum and dad are now going through is because of you. Because you're not enough, you're not good enough and you never will be. And to experience that at seven, oh.

[Jordan James]

Dude, what's wrong with people?

[Simon Scott]

So that was tough. So I ended up going to a school, the. I don't know the ballpark number, but I bet my parents paid like four or five grand a term. So my mum, who's adhd, had had to go back to work and my dad started picking up over time and I was seeing all of them less and less. And this school was brilliant for me because they put me in theater. You know, they went, this is a kid that needs to be on a stage and I will forever be grateful for Mrs. Exley in year four, doing that for me and another teacher was like, I think you should learn an instrument. And so much of who I am as a person, I learned in those four years of school. I loved going to that school. It was brilliant. And they put so much effort into my education, so much effort into me as a person, that I wish I could have just stayed there forever. But one of the reasons as to why I didn't stay at that school was, was for two main reasons, is one, it finished at year eight and would go to a, a lower secondary school. So it started year nine, but it was where you would then do your SATs and do your GCSes. They had no theater program at all at the next school going up. And at the time, that was everything that I did. It was so much of who I was. The second reason was because it was 2008 and the recession hit and my dad lost his business.

[Jordan James]

Oh, crap.

[Simon Scott]

So it wasn't even a case of they could afford to put me in a school. My dad was going from having worked his entire life to build a business to queuing outside of a job center. And watching that whole experience as well was really tough because I was like, this is happening because of me, because I'm forcing them to pay for a school because I'm not good enough. So I then had to go back to the school that originally didn't want me. And that's where all of my issues were. I was bullied by teachers. I was bullied by literally every other kid in the class I had. I got mugged at school and I literally would try and explain stuff to teachers and they go, well, we're not saying that you're asking for it, but you're asking for it.

[Jordan James]

Wow.

[Simon Scott]

And oh, dude, I would have so many like put downs from teachers. I had so many teachers that would literally, like, I would say something in just my curious, neurodivergent self and kids would pick up on it and take the piss and teachers would join in. I had one particular art teacher where I made like this little sculpture and she was like, what is this meant to be? And I was like, art was interpretive and she might as well have just gone, yeah, but when it's not shit. And you know, these are the sorts of experience that I just kept, kept happening. Dude, I was so good at football and the teachers would never let me play on the team. I was always on the side of the pitch, basically being a manager, but they would never let me play.

[Jordan James]

I had the Exact same experience with basketball.

[Simon Scott]

They never let me play.

[Jordan James]

Dude, I was the best basketball player in my school. And when the basketball team was set up, the PE teacher literally turned around and went, oh, you lot figure out who's gonna play.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah.

[Jordan James]

And because all the kids hated me, they, they wouldn't, they wouldn't let me play. And, and they, they even made a fun thing of it where they were basically teasing me and saying, oh, look, you can play, but then you have to beat this kid. You, you guys have to have a one on one. Oh yeah, I had all my bullets. This was all set. This one on one was set up. And I, every time that I tried to play, everyone ran in the circle watching. It would like push me, slap the ball out of my hand. Basically, they, they were cheating.

[Simon Scott]

I get two footed tackles and the, the teacher would be like, play on, like. And then they all sort of had their favorites. But one of the things that I found so difficult about this secondary school and, oh God, when my dad found out, dude, he went so nuclear. And I had this theater teacher, and he wasn't a theater teacher, he was the music teacher, but he just taught theater as well. And they would have these school plays and dude, they had this biology teacher and I vividly remember having an argument with her. I was like, if you hate kids so much, why are you a teacher? And then that got me kicked out. Of course it did. And essentially in one of these classes, I questioned one of the casting choices in the play. And it wasn't because I was being a smart ass. It was. I'm genuinely intrigued. What is your process with casting? Because it's not something that I ever experienced or understood before. They took that as a slight against their authority. And I had this teacher lecture me for half an hour, force me to write an apology letter, then read it out and critique it. And oh, my dad went nuclear. But the thing is, is I did not go to theater for 18 months after that. And that was the only thing I enjoyed at school. And I wasn't allowed to do it.

[Jordan James]

It's amazing how these people, like, they, they put such a lid on our potential. They destroyed so many of our dreams that I don't know, it's like every success that I have is like in, in spite of them.

[Simon Scott]

Just like, I'm so glad you've said that.

[Jordan James]

I just literally, I'd love to meet them. All those people that were like, oh, you'll never do anything with your life and just be like, check this shit out.

[Simon Scott]

So it was, it was year eight that I didn't get to do theater. And then it would have been year 10. We did Oliver at school and I ended up playing Fagan. And when we did the school show, a newspaper came in and did a piece about me and ran it in town because parents had complained to the teachers that they'd hired an adult professional actor to play Fagin in a school play. And it wasn't inclusive to all the kids. Not realizing that I was a kid at the school, I was a compliment. Good. You were that Good in year 11, after I left, they made sure that there was a theater scholarship at the school because I should have had one. I was that good. And a teacher stopped me from doing that for nearly two years because I questioned him on why he had cast a student in this role. And after that, it really, really put a chip on my shoulder, which then compounded even more when I then moved to London and didn't get much work. Until I get work now as I'm older, but I didn't get work. And at the time, the identity crisis that I had where I was like, I've been told I'm rubbish at everything. This is the only thing I've ever been good at, and I'm still not good enough. So all of that school set me up to be like, here is the one thing that you're good at. It was the one thing that people are going to respect you for. And then I got into the real world and had to do it all over again. And it was just like, what is the point? And don't get me wrong, I ended up doing a master's degree in radio. And I meant. And ran the student radio station. And it's the only thing I've ever got an A in because I absolutely loved it. I thought university was such the right environment for me. But even then, I got bullied at uni. Dude, I've been bullied in every job I've ever had, apart from the one that I'm in now. And I still challenge. No, stop it, you. But it's. But genuinely, I still have that. I have the opposite reaction of every time anything bad ever happens to me or I come up against any adversity, the first thought that comes into my head was, of course this happens because you're you and you deserve it. And I've had to really fight that. And it all comes from school. Every time I ever called anybody out on being a bully, they were like, well, stop antagonizing them, then.

[Jordan James]

Should we have our final break then.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah, let's do it. Don't go anywhere.

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[Simon Scott]

Tara is a mochi member, compensated for her story. Have you ever felt stuck in patterns that don't serve you, struggled with stress or wanted to connect more deeply with yourself? Then I have to introduce you to a friend of the podcast and Ashley Bentley of integrated coaching, breathwork and Hypnotherapy. Ashley is a highly experienced clinical hypnotherapist and coach specializing in working with neurodivergent minds. Through a unique blend of integrative coaching, breath work and hypnotherapy, Ashley helps people rewire subconscious patterns, regulate their nervous systems, step into more empowered versions of themselves. Whether you're dealing with addiction, anxiety, burnout or struggles with self acceptance, Ashley offers practical and science backed tools tailored just for you. Her unique methods combine neuroscience, storytelling, subconscious transformation to create real, lasting change. Jordan and I can personally attest to the profound and transformative effects of her sessions, which have been life changing. She does all of these sessions online, meaning she can work with you no matter where you are in the world. If you're ready to break free from old patterns and start living with more clarity, confidence and connection, go to Bit ly Ashleynde to book a free consultation or learn more. Welcome back to the Neurodivergent Experience. I hope you're still with us. It's not been an easy one for us today, but I feel like sometimes sharing these experiences is is important for anybody that's that's going through it or has gone through it as well, not to feel sort of alone. So Jordan, where should we, where should we wrap up here?

[Jordan James]

I just think if, if people don't learn from past mistakes, if they don't learn from the things that, that I had to go through my generation and you had to go through in your generation and the fact that they still, these things are still happening. It's the reason that I went and did talks in schools because it's still happening now. Kids are still being bullied, parents are still being unaccepting of send kids. There's a lot more help and services out there. There's a lot more understanding, there's a lot more awareness. Be aware, which is great, but like it's, it's not good enough. Is it like how, how are we in the same position where we're, we're so aware of everything and yet this, the same problems are still arising where you've got kids treating other kids like how are you going to navigate the world as an adult if you can't get on with people? I think it's, it's even made worse now because of social media.

[Simon Scott]

Oh God, I could not imagine being.

[Jordan James]

At school now with, because adults, adults bully each other on social media as if they were little kids in the playground.

[Simon Scott]

What peak at high school is unfortunately, that a lot of these people have experienced.

[Jordan James]

Unfortunately, I can't even have imagine even having like 1% of conversations in real life with people that, that I've seen or had with people on the Internet. And it's, it's, it's so hard because especially when it comes to comments and arguments through comment sections and stuff like that is that everyone is, is like they want to be the winner. So everyone doesn't know. No one wants to back down, no one wants to learn that the cognitive dissonance is, is through the roof. And so if you've got, if you've got adults now who are literally acting like bullies on a playground in, in their social life as in their social media life and then their parents to kids, how are they teaching those kids? Oh, you shouldn't talk to people like that. You shouldn't judge people like that. They're doing it on social media so then their kids are gonna do it. So it's not gonna get better. It's just gonna keep being crap. So if you're listening to this, teach your kids to be more accepting or take him out of school. Honestly, if, if, if it's good for your kid, take him out of school. Because I would love to tell you that school's a safe place, school's a good place. School's where you learn. It's not. It's well traumatized. That's where school was learning. I love learning. I could. I could talk myself all day long. School was where all I learned was that I was a problem and everyone else hated me. That's the only thing I ever learned at school, mate.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah. And you know what? I had this conversation with my parents not that long ago, and I said, if you. If you'd known what you'd known now, would you have homeschooled me? And they both thought about it, they came back and they went, well, not every family has the privilege to be able to homeschool the kids. And he went, but if we had, we might have done. Because quite frankly, when I think about the things that have made me the person that I am today, it has been what people have showed me, you know, it's how to treat people. It's acts of kindness, it's, you know, being an adult and being childish with me, and it's like I've learned more from friendship and, and that I feel like I have with school. It's like, yeah, don't get me wrong, I know how to count and, and things like that. And I'm. You know, my partner is constantly saying to me, she's like, wow, you know, so much about so much. I don't think any of it stuff I picked up at school, if I'm honest, like, it's just from, like, being at home and being a data gatherer and, and reading. But, you know, even my parents had issues with other parents. My mum was merciful, mercifully bullied by other mums at school. And when we moved school, it wasn't just because I was struggling at that school, it's because my mum was struggling being at the school gate with all of these other really judgy mums. You know, we watched Brett's documentary and there was a. A section in that that I actually sent to my mum and I was like, look, you weren't the only mum that felt like this at the school gate. And, you know, I am not a parent and both my partner and I have conversations about this at length and, you know, one out of ten were full. Nine times out of ten. The sort of conversations we have, we go, but the school system and other parents and other kids at school, and I think about the experiences that I had at school and I don't feel like I could, with the nature that I've got, willingly put a backpack on my child and send them to school knowing what I'm sending them into. And when we've seen that documentary that's been out on the BBC that we discovered in the Hot Topic last week, I kind of think about the worry that I experienced my parents go through and some of the mental health issues that were created by the struggles that I was going through at school. And I think about myself as a neurodivergent person and my makeup and. And how I respond to things and the environments that I can be in. Me personally, I worry that if I was to have a child, I don't know if I would be able to cope with everything that I would have to battle and go through, because I know that those battles would be coming because I'm going to have a neurodivergent child. And it's not because I don't think children are great. I love children, actually. I really enjoy the company and, and, you know, I've got children in my. In my life that I love spending time with, but when I think about what I would have to put them through and myself through and my partner through just to even get the accommodation and the rights that we deserve, I freak out, dude. I feel like I'm gonna have a meltdown even thinking about it. And it scares me and it upsets me because the reason I should choose not to have children is not because of the school system, is not because of how parents are raising their children, and not because of how the government does not protect kids in this country, let alone some of the other countries in the world, dude. Meaning in this country, we're pretty good compared, but we're still not good. And I don't think they should be the reasons that you shouldn't have kids. But right now, dude, I just cannot see me being a parent because I'm so traumatized by my own school experience.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, it's, It's. It's never going to be easy to talk about these things. And that's, that's my fear for the future, is that it's never going to get easy. I mean, my kids really struggled in school. They. They were definitely picked on as well. And it just, It's. It's never going to be easy. So to all your parents out there, you're not alone if your kid's going through this. And I think it's. It's good to hear it from our perspective because we'll end on a positive is the fact that you're listening to us. Because a lot of people won't talk about it, can't talk about. I today struggled so much, and I'M going to come off this podcast, and I'm going to have to take a break for a bit because I'm going to have to get over having talked about this. And I know, Scotty, I can see how emotional you're getting. And by the way, Matt, I love the fact that we can talk about this. And I love the fact that I can talk about this with you. I love that you care. Like, I love you, dude.

[Simon Scott]

I love you, man. You're like my brother. I don't have any siblings, but I do. It's you.

[Jordan James]

Yeah, you're my brother, dude. You know, and the fact that we are here doing this, that's the positive, because we are successful at what we do. We are great at what we do in life. We're not perfect. No one is. But we are killing it. Considering most people put us down and thought we are beyond hope, we are useless. What is even the point? And to those people, I say, suck my balls, Mr. Garrison.

[Simon Scott]

You know, I used to have a teacher that used to look like Mr. Garrison, and he can suck my balls as well. What an absolute he was.

[Jordan James]

Yeah.

[Simon Scott]

And you know what? Yeah. Beautifully said, man. And you know what? I feel it's not been easy talking about this. I hate talking about it. I don't even like even acknowledging that I even went to school. It's. It all feels like one big gray blur. But, you know, I feel like we've created a genuine, safe space for us to talk about our freaking trauma and the things that have happened to us. And at the same time, we can also show that we've still become the people that we are despite it. And I'm very grateful that we've managed to create a community space where people can listen to these sorts of stories, even though it's not easy, but it isn't. And we can't even pretend that it is. And I think having an honest conversation, even though I'm now feeling quite alexithemic, I'm feeling quite emotional. You're not alone. And you'd be surprised who's been through this, because we did. And look at us. We're doing all right, aren't we?

[Jordan James]

We're killing it, man. We're killing it. I have all the cuddly toys I can purchase, and that is. That is my success.

[Simon Scott]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm now going to go and drink a big fat bottle of Coke anyway. Take care of yourself. Yeah. Be kind to yourself, people. And you know, we love you. So be strong out there. Stay safe. If you can. Take care of yourself. We will be back with another episode next Thursday with a hot topic following it up. So keep in your feeds. Love you everybody. Take care nightly.

[Jordan James]

Bye.

[Simon Scott]

Foreign thanks for tuning in to the neurodivergent Experience. We hope today's episode sparks something for you, whether it's a new idea, a bit of validation, or just a moment of connection. Remember, new episodes are every week, so be sure to join us for the next one for more conversations and insights into the neurodivergent Experience. If you've enjoyed this podcast, help us grow. You can do that by rating and reviewing this show. Your support makes a huge difference in helping us reach more people who could benefit from these conversations. You can connect with us on social media, find us on Instagram, Facebook, Tick Tock. Just search for the neurodivergent Experience. Thank you again for listening and until next time, take care of yourself. You're not alone in this journey. Every day there's a new challenge to face, so meet Trimble, the technology company that connects your physical and digital worlds, allowing you to make decisions and take intelligent action to get the hard work done. And the best part? You can do it all faster than you've ever thought possible. Check them [e-mail] you ready to turn data points into decision points or turn deadlines into finish lines? How about turning possibilities into profits? Then turn to Trimble Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

[Lexi and Nicole]

Are you a fantasy reader looking to cure your book hangover? Then welcome, welcome, welcome to the Fantasy Fangirls Podcast. I'm Lexi, older sister and fantasy Lore nerd. And I'm Nicole, younger sister and romantic at heart and we love exploring these stories, worlds and characters well beyond the last page. Fantasy Fangirls is not your typical book. Deep Dive Podcast when we say Deep Dive, we mean Deep Dive, where every episode covers a stretch of chapters and is structured with five segments to easily follow along. We are currently Deep Diving Quicksilver by Callie Hart in the lead up to its highly anticipated sequel, Brimstone. We're so excited. We hope you join us as we travel through the Quicksilver to dive deep into literary and character analysis, theories, lore, themes and so much more.

[Simon Scott]

ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast. Com.