Episode Summary: "Nathan Englander Reads Chris Adrian"

Podcast: The New Yorker: Fiction
Host: Deborah Treisman
Guest: Nathan Englander
Release Date: July 1, 2024

1. Introduction

Deborah Treisman, fiction editor at The New Yorker, introduces the episode by welcoming Nathan Englander, a renowned author known for works such as Kaddish.com and What We Talk About When We Talk About Anne Frank. Treisman highlights that Englander selected the story “Every Night for a Thousand Years” by Chris Adrian, first published in The New Yorker in October 1997. This story also features in Adrian's inaugural novel, Gob's Grief.

2. Host and Guest Background

Nathan Englander shares his longstanding connection with Chris Adrian, noting their time together in the Iowa Writing Program. He reflects on their mutual admiration and the profound impact Adrian's early works had on him. Englander states, “[...] Chris was the first of us to crack your magazine. I remember thinking, like, now I understand the word jealousy, because I cannot think this story is any more beautiful” ([02:16]).

3. Selection of "Every Night for a Thousand Years"

Englander discusses his reasons for choosing Adrian’s story, emphasizing its emotional depth and thematic resonance. He mentions that the story embodies themes central to Adrian’s oeuvre, such as extreme empathy and the desire to reconnect with lost loved ones. Englander remarks, “extreme empathy, extreme peace, the bringing back of dead brothers” ([03:17]).

4. Reading of the Story

Nathan Englander delivers a poignant narration of “Every Night for a Thousand Years,” transporting listeners to the Civil War era. The story follows Walt Whitman, who becomes deeply involved in caring for wounded soldiers at Union Square Hospital after dreaming of his brother George’s death. Themes of grief, loss, and the struggle to provide comfort amidst chaos are intricately woven throughout the narrative.

5. Post-Reading Discussion

a. Themes of Empathy and Grief

Treisman and Englander delve into the story’s exploration of profound empathy and the burden of grief. Englander connects the story to Adrian’s personal experiences, revealing that Adrian wrote it while mourning his brother’s untimely death. Englander asserts, “Fiction always functions outside of time for me. Like, you can go from Myrtle Avenue to the war. It's possible” ([04:59]).

b. Symbolism of Birds and Dreams

The discussion highlights the symbolic significance of birds in the story, representing both the fragility of life and the unattainable nature of true healing. Englander interprets the broken wing of Olivia, the cardinal, as a metaphor for lost freedom and the limits of care. He states, “The bird's not gonna fly free” ([48:40]).

c. Whitman as a Universal Grieving Figure

Whitman’s character embodies universal grief, serving as a vessel for both personal loss and collective sorrow. Englander emphasizes the duality of Whitman’s voice with Adrian’s, creating a seamless blend that transcends individual identities. He explains, “it is neither Chris nor Walt Whitman. It is the both of them” ([57:51]).

d. Religious Undertones and Faith

The story subtly incorporates religious themes, such as Whitman’s reading of the New Testament and references to the Greek god Asclepius. Englander discusses how these elements reflect a search for faith and meaning amidst suffering. He notes, “There's this sense of at least faith... of faith” ([58:21]).

e. Impact of Fiction as a Mirror to Society

Englander reflects on the story’s relevance to contemporary issues, drawing parallels between its depiction of war and modern conflicts. He describes the narrative as a “warning,” urging readers to recognize and address ongoing societal and political turmoil. Englander comments, “...how fiction affects me and is like the nightmare that is Israel Palestine...” ([52:31]).

f. The Inevitability of Loss Despite Care

A poignant theme discussed is the inevitability of loss, regardless of the care and empathy provided. Englander conveys that Whitman’s efforts to save Hank ultimately lead to his death, underscoring the limits of human intervention. He states, “No matter how much you care for something, you can't save it” ([50:49]).

6. Conclusion

Deborah Treisman and Nathan Englander conclude the discussion by reaffirming the story's enduring power and its capacity to evoke deep emotional responses. Englander reflects on the transformative experience of engaging with Adrian’s work, likening it to a form of personal rescue from his own struggles. He shares, “[...] reading it, like, with full heart and soul” ([52:19]).

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Englander on Choosing the Story: “…extreme empathy, extreme peace, the bringing back of dead brothers” ([03:17]).
• Englander on Empathy and Fiction: “Fiction always functions outside of time for me. Like, you can go from Myrtle Avenue to the war. It's possible” ([04:59]).
• Englander on Symbolism: “The bird's not gonna fly free” ([48:40]).
• Englander on Dual Voices: “it is neither Chris nor Walt Whitman. It is the both of them” ([57:51]).
• Englander on Inevitable Loss: “No matter how much you care for something, you can't save it” ([50:49]).
• Englander on Fiction’s Impact: “…how fiction affects me and is like the nightmare that is Israel Palestine...” ([52:31]).

Final Thoughts

This episode of The New Yorker: Fiction offers a deep dive into Chris Adrian’s emotionally charged story through the insightful lens of Nathan Englander. The conversation not only unpacks the intricate themes of grief, empathy, and the human condition but also underscores the timeless relevance of well-crafted fiction in reflecting and challenging societal norms.

Listen to the episode to experience a masterful blend of storytelling and literary analysis, enriching your understanding of both the narrative and its broader implications.