Podcast Summary: The New Yorker: Poetry – "Sasha Debevec-McKenney Reads Gabrielle Calvocoressi"

Release Date: July 23, 2025
Host/Author: WNYC Studios and The New Yorker
Guest: Sasha Debevik McKenney, Author of "Joy Is My Middle Name"

Introduction

In this engaging episode of The New Yorker: Poetry, Kevin Young, Poetry Editor of The New Yorker Magazine, welcomes Sasha Debevik McKenney, the author of her debut poetry collection, Joy Is My Middle Name. The episode delves into McKenney's interpretations of Gabrielle Calvocoressi's "Hammond B3 Organ Cistern" and her own poem, "Kaepernick." The conversation offers deep insights into the themes of mental health, community, humor, and racial identity embedded within contemporary poetry.

Reading and Discussing "Hammond B3 Organ Cistern"

Reading of the Poem

At [02:31], Sasha Debevik McKenney begins by selecting Gabrielle Calvocoressi's poem "Hammond B3 Organ Cistern." She expresses a personal connection to the work, stating, "I just love this poem. It's so important to me. It feels like it's a part of me and I just want other people to read it." [02:47]

McKenney proceeds to read the poem, bringing to life its vivid imagery and emotional depth. The poem navigates themes of depression, gratitude, and the small joys that anchor one’s existence.

Discussion on Naming and Emotional Gratitude

Post-reading, Kevin Young highlights a notable line from the poem: "Why don't we have a name for it?" [05:05]. He commends McKenney's delivery, emphasizing, "Capturing that feeling is so much part of the poem and so much this idea of naming which keeps coming up."

McKenney reflects on the poem's use of concrete images and the absence of definitive names, fostering a sense of universality and connection. She articulates, "I love that this poem makes me feel less lonely... our names would all be valid and beautiful." [05:54]

Kevin further explores the duality of the word "funk," discussing its African origins and its multifaceted meanings—ranging from sadness to the vibrant rhythms of funk music. He draws parallels between the poem's musical elements and its thematic exploration of pain and resilience.

Community and Music as Healing

The conversation shifts to the poem's depiction of community and music. McKenney describes the poem’s setting as almost ecclesiastical, likening the speaker to a preacher and the communal call to "Bring the bass back." [16:27] She underscores the poem’s blending of gospel intensity with the cathartic power of music, creating a sense of collective healing.

Kevin remarks on the poem’s chorus-like quality and its Whitmanesque public voice, highlighting how it encapsulates both personal struggle and communal support. McKenney adds, "There's just this familiarity immediately... this poem makes you feel like you're part of the we." [19:48]

Reading and Discussing "Kaepernick"

Reading of the Poem

Transitioning to her own work, at [23:06], McKenney introduces her poem "Kaepernick," originally published in the November 22, 2021 issue of The New Yorker. She notes the poem’s journey from submission to publication, indicating personal excitement and the universal potential for others to achieve similar recognition.

The poem juxtaposes personal family dynamics with broader sociopolitical themes, particularly referencing Colin Kaepernick’s protest movements. It intertwines discussions of race, beauty standards, and generational misunderstandings, all delivered with a nuanced blend of humor and poignancy.

Humor as a Coping Mechanism

Kevin observes the poem's adept use of humor amidst sensitive subjects, stating, "There's a lot of humor in this poem... how did you think about the humor in the poem and the way you could sort of talk about this sensitive subject through that?" [24:13]

McKenney explains that humor serves as a vessel to express and ease personal hurt. "Humor is a way to kind of, like, ease that hurt for me," she shares [24:39]. She emphasizes that incorporating humor makes the heavy themes more relatable and less confining, allowing for a more authentic expression of complex emotions.

Exploring Racial Identity and Familial Relationships

The discussion delves into the poem's exploration of racial identity and familial expectations. McKenney candidly addresses the challenges of conveying her biracial experience and the responsibility she felt to educate her mother about racial issues. "Isn't that my responsibility... but also, like, isn't that love, too, to explain that stuff to somebody?" [29:06]

Kevin highlights the poem's structural simplicity and emotional restraint, noting its succinctness and the powerful snapshot it provides of a tense family moment. McKenney concurs, reflecting on the poem’s ability to capture intense, real-life interactions without excessive ornamentation.

Exploring "Joy Is My Middle Name" – McKenney's Debut Collection

Overview of the Collection

Shifting focus to McKenney’s poetry collection, Kevin invites her to discuss Joy Is My Middle Name. McKenney describes the collection as a "museum of my 20s," encompassing a wide array of experiences and emotions tied to her American identity, heritage, and personal growth.

She articulates the duality of the collection’s title—“Joy is literally my middle name, and it's my mother's middle name... it also is ironic.” [37:08] This reflects the nuanced interplay of genuine joy and the underlying complexities within her poetry.

Themes and Inspirations

McKenney shares that her work is heavily influenced by American history, familial stories, and everyday experiences in New York City. She mentions her father's stories about racial discrimination and how they have shaped her understanding of identity and belonging.

“There's a lot of pain in the book... trying to understand who I am and where I come from.” [35:07] She also emphasizes the role of community and movement, likening her writing process to walking—absorbing the energy and experiences of her environment.

Balancing Humor and Depth

Discussing her poetic style, McKenney explains her approach to blending humor with profound themes. “I like to lull people into a false sense of security and then just... stab them in the stomach.” [37:18] She aims to create poems that are both engaging and emotionally impactful, using humor as a gateway to deeper, more unsettling truths.

Kevin praises this balance, noting how humor and resilience are intrinsic to both Black culture and effective poetry. McKenney agrees, stating, “No human emotion is simple or sacred, perhaps.” [39:07] She underscores the importance of portraying emotions authentically, without oversimplification.

Conclusion

The episode culminates with mutual appreciation between Kevin Young and Sasha Debevik McKenney for her poetic contributions and the thematic richness of her work. Kevin lauds McKenney’s unique perspective and her ability to intertwine humor with profound societal issues, expressing eagerness to further explore her poetry.

McKenney expresses gratitude and enthusiasm for listeners to engage with her collection, hoping that her honest and multifaceted portrayals resonate with and affirm others’ experiences.

“I like the poet immediately. The speaker... You can't appreciate it. ... it's just a moment where I think you're right.” [Multiple timestamps]

Notable Quotes

• Sasha Debevik McKenney on "Hammond B3 Organ Cistern":
  “I just love this poem. It's so important to me. It feels like it's a part of me and I just want other people to read it.” [02:47]

• Kevin Young on the Theme of Naming:
  “Why don't we have a name for it? ... it's in that question.” [05:05]

• McKenney on Community and Depression:
  “... this poem makes you feel like you're part of the we, which is the opposite of how you feel when you are depressed.” [13:55]

• McKenney on Humor in "Kaepernick":
  “Humor is a way to kind of, like, ease that hurt for me.” [24:39]

• McKenney on Her Debut Collection:
  “It's like a museum of my 20s... lots of embarrassing stories and confused feelings.” [36:31]

Final Remarks

This episode of The New Yorker: Poetry provides a profound exploration of contemporary poetic expressions surrounding mental health, community, humor, and racial identity. Through Sasha Debevik McKenney's readings and insightful discussions, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for the nuanced layers that modern poetry can embody.

Accessing the Poems and Collection:

• "Hammond B3 Organ Cistern" and "Kaepernick" can be found on NewYorker.com and in the anthology A Century of Poetry in The New Yorker, 1925-2025.
• Sasha Debevik McKenney's debut collection, Joy Is My Middle Name, is available for purchase from the New Yorker Store and other major book retailers.

Produced by Chloe Prosinos, Hannah Eisenman, and Michelle O'Brien.