The New Yorker Radio Hour Episode Summary
Episode: A Progressive Evangelical, and Charlamagne Tha God
Date: November 12, 2019
Host: David Remnick
Guests: Eliza Griswold, Doug Pagitt, Charlamagne Tha God, Natalie Mead
Overview
This episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour navigates two engaging and timely conversations:
- The efforts of Doug Pagitt, a progressive evangelical pastor, to shift faith-driven voters away from the religious right and into the Democratic Party.
- Charlamagne Tha God’s frank discussion of his mental health journey, trauma, and the pervasive stigma against therapy—especially for Black men.
Both segments highlight intersections of personal identity and broader societal forces: faith and politics in the age of Trump, and individual mental health against a backdrop of systemic racism and generational silence.
Segment 1: Doug Pagitt and Progressive Evangelicalism
Guests: Eliza Griswold (The New Yorker), Doug Pagitt (pastor, founder of Vote Common Good)
Timestamps: 00:11 – 13:24
Main Theme
Exploring the efforts led by Pagitt to reclaim the term “evangelical” from its narrow association with political conservatism and to realign religious voters with progressive, Democratic values.
Key Discussion Points
1. Historical Context and Reclaiming Evangelical Identity
- Pagitt's Mission: To reconnect evangelicalism with its broader, more inclusive roots, citing Jimmy Carter in the 1970s as an example of progressive evangelicalism.
- Quote:
- “The Bible and the teachings of Jesus are about inclusion, and they're about love, and they're about the God of all, and that there's children from many other families... they really lean to a much more progressive understanding.” – Doug Pagitt [01:12]
- Struggle over Identity: The religious right, Pagitt argues, has worked aggressively to merge conservatism with evangelicalism, leaving little room for differing interpretations.
2. Moving the Conversation Beyond Political Football
- Pagitt Cautions:
- “I'm a little nervous just in my own temperament about reclaiming language, because it feels like then one side has it or the other side has it... I'm not sure that's the best way to frame this conversation.” [02:02]
- Advocacy for mutual understanding between conservatives and progressives rather than zero-sum battles over who ‘owns’ Jesus.
3. Vote Common Good: Recapturing Religious Voters for Democrats
- Strategy:
- Targeting three groups:
- Past Democratic voters who defected
- Newly politically enraged by Trump
- Non-voters potentially motivated by current events
- Targeting three groups:
- Pagitt’s Aim: To create space for faith-driven voters in the Democratic Party and offer candidates guidance on speaking to religious constituencies without “bluffing” their level of faith.
- Quote:
- “We are going to try to influence the national narrative around the role of religion and politics so that voters who feel that they're religiously motivated and could never vote for a Democrat see that that's a possibility.” [03:03]
- Notable Story: Pagitt describes being kicked out of the Values Voter Summit while trying to promote “love in politics.” [04:23]
4. Coaching Democrats on Faith-Based Dialogue
- Challenge: Democrats are often nervous about faith conversations, lacking real connections with religious communities.
- Methods: Facilitates meetings between candidates and pastors to foster understanding and dispel nervousness. [05:49]
- Commentary on Elizabeth Warren's Town Hall Answer: While Warren’s quick-witted response to a question about gay marriage got laughs, Pagitt notes the importance of also affirming the legitimacy of a person’s faith-based concerns.
- “If your faith drives you to care about these issues, then I want to be the candidate that represents you. Even if I don't represent your faith, I don't know why candidates aren't saying that stuff all the time.” – Doug Pagitt [08:12]
5. Challenges and Pushback
- Pushback from Democrats: Some in the party fear losing secular representation and advocate strict separation of church and state.
- Pagitt’s Stance: Advocates not for religious dominance but for religious people to act in pursuit of the “common good,” not just sectarian interests. [11:05]
6. The Abortion Divide
- For voters intent on repealing Roe v. Wade, Pagitt sees little common ground, but argues that many evangelicals are more motivated by Trump's racism and sexism than by abortion—a demographic potentially large enough to swing elections. [12:44]
Notable Quotes & Moments
- “Most people don't think about politics and most people don't think about their religion and most people don't think about how the two impact each other.” – Doug Pagitt [04:49]
- “We don't think you should vote for Christian candidates. We think Christian people should vote for candidates that support the common good.” – Doug Pagitt [11:05]
Memorable Moment:
Pagitt explaining being kicked out of the Values Voter Summit for promoting a “love in politics” pledge rooted in 1 Corinthians 13. [04:23]
Segment 2: Charlamagne Tha God – Therapy, Trauma & Black Mental Health
Guests: Charlamagne Tha God (Leonard McKelvey), Natalie Mead
Timestamps: 14:21 – 26:13
Main Theme
Charlamagne Tha God opens up about his lifelong struggle with anxiety, the reluctance within Black communities to discuss mental health, and the burden of living under systematic racism and trauma.
Key Discussion Points
1. Early Life and Anxiety
- Growing Up in Moncks Corner, South Carolina:
- Charlamagne describes a lack of direction that led to trouble, including selling drugs, and how anxiety and paranoia played roles in his life choices.
- “I didn't realize I was dealing with anxiety and having panic attacks back then.” [17:34]
- Memorable Story: Burying (fake) drugs out of fear the police were coming—intuitively, the police did arrive. [17:31]
2. Realization and Diagnosis
- First diagnosed with anxiety in 2010 after experiencing panic attacks during a low point—unemployed, fired from radio, back living at home.
- “The doctor tells me what he always tells me... ‘you got an athlete's heart. You're fine.’ ...That was the first time somebody said to me, ‘do you have anxiety?’” [19:19]
- Attempted to solve anxiety externally (getting a new radio job), but symptoms persisted despite professional success.
- “Four or five years later... you’re still having those same symptoms, still having those panic attacks.” [20:15]
3. Generational & Familial Trauma
- Anxiety and depression were normalized or minimized in family—grandmother's “nerves” and mother’s therapy only discussed in passing.
- “I didn't realize my grandmother was really dealing with real bad anxiety. I just thought she was the most paranoid, pessimistic person alive...” [21:21]
- Anxiety often passed off as mere nervousness or character flaws.
4. Mental Health Stigma Among Black Men
- Charlamagne discusses how mental health struggles are traditionally kept secret within Black families, a cultural tendency that discourages seeking help.
- Personal revelation: His father secretly struggled with suicidal thoughts and depression for decades—hidden even from close family.
- “My father told me that he tried to kill himself, like, 30 plus years ago... and my mom was like, ‘I thought he was just playing crazy to get a check.’ So it's like nobody was taking it serious.” [23:06]
5. Processing Trauma & Systemic Racism
- Addressed recent police shootings of Black people in their own homes (Botham Jean, Atatiana Jefferson), and the resulting rage and sense of helplessness.
- Charlamagne rejects the notion that education is an antidote to racism:
- “Education can’t stop racism. If you're a racist and a bigot, you don't see my degree on me… All you see is the color of my skin.” [24:44]
- Expresses honest vulnerability about not knowing the answers to how to actually solve systemic racism and violence:
- “I really don't know what the answer is to that. I don't know how to make white people not be scared of black people.” [24:44]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “I mean, it’s just something that we never spoke about... we think we're doing ourselves favors by keeping secrets.” – Charlamagne [23:08]
- “At the end of the day, you're just constantly questioning, you know, what do you have to do to make this stop? I don't have any answers to that.” – Charlamagne [24:44]
- “When you see [adults] bugging out, you start bugging out too.” – Charlamagne, recalling his first panic attack during Hurricane Hugo [21:21]
Memorable Exchange:
Charlamagne’s account of anxiety saving him from being arrested (burying fake crack) [17:12], highlighting both the dangers and ambiguities of life in poverty-stricken communities.
Episode Takeaways
- For Faith & Politics: Doug Pagitt presents a case for a more inclusive, progressive evangelicalism and the need for Democratic politicians to learn to approach faith directly and compassionately.
- For Mental Health: Charlamagne Tha God underscores the urgent need to destigmatize therapy among Black men and reveals the multi-generational, often secret, suffering caused by untreated mental illness and enduring racism.
Key Timestamps
- 00:11 – 13:24: Doug Pagitt on progressive evangelicalism, Vote Common Good, and faith outreach in Democratic politics
- 14:21 – 26:13: Charlamagne Tha God on anxiety, family trauma, Black men’s mental health, and living with racism
Tone & Style
Throughout both segments, conversations are candid, personal, and empathetic. Pagitt and Charlamagne blend vulnerability with deep insight, challenging their audiences to reconsider, respectively, conventional political alignments and taboos against mental health conversations.
Selected Quotes With Attribution
- Doug Pagitt: “We don't think you should vote for Christian candidates. We think Christian people should vote for candidates that support the common good.” [11:05]
- Charlamagne Tha God: “At the end of the day, you're just constantly questioning, you know, what do you have to do to make this stop? I don't have any answers to that.” [24:44]
This episode offers rare insight into the reckoning with identity—faith, politics, mental health, and systemic oppression—in present-day America.