The New Yorker Radio Hour

Episode: An Alternative Oscars Ceremony, and Ezra Klein on Why We’re Polarized

Date: January 24, 2020
Host: David Remnick
Produced by: WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

Episode Overview

This episode is divided into two main segments:

1. Politics & Polarization: Isaac Chotiner interviews political commentator Ezra Klein about his book, Why We’re Polarized. They delve into the forces fracturing American politics, the role of identity over policy, and the institutional challenges facing democracy.
2. The Brody Awards—An Alternative Oscars: David Remnick, Alexandra Schwartz, and film critic Richard Brody present their own alternatives to the Academy Awards, debating their picks for best performances and films of 2019, and critiquing the Oscars’ cultural blind spots.

Segment 1: Ezra Klein on Why We’re Polarized (00:10–10:25)

Main Themes

• The shift from policy-based political identity to partisanship rooted in social identity.
• The illusion that policy details drive political debate, when, in fact, policy often operates as a symbol of deeper values or identities.
• Systemic causes of political dysfunction and how both parties have reacted differently to increased polarization.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Identity Over Policy

• Ezra Klein: "[...] it’s a mistake to think that policy is not a way people express identity. [...] When Bernie Sanders talks about Medicare for All [...] it’s not just a policy argument. He’s making an argument about values and who he is." (02:04)
• Policy debates among Democrats aren’t just about policy efficacy, but about who is truly committed to certain core values and visions for America. (02:00-03:52)

Setting Up for Disappointment

• Klein: "We did not invent campaign over-promising in the year 2020. There’s not a campaign where presidential candidates do not promise more than they are likely to be able to pass." (04:22)
• The cycle of grand promises and inevitable disappointment is exacerbated by systemic challenges Congress presents, creating despair and cynicism among voters. (03:51-05:29)

Polarization: Who’s to Blame?

• Klein: "The Republican Party has responded to polarization in a different way than the Democratic Party. It has moved further right than the Democratic Party has moved left." (05:57)
• Democrats, due to their coalition of diverse groups, tend to pick candidates with broad appeal, while the Republican base allows for more extreme candidates representing a narrower identity. (05:29-07:04)

Polarization as Systemic Reality

• Klein: "Within our discourse about polarization, the way people think about it is polarization is breaking the American political system. [...] I would actually argue [...] we’re not going to become depolarized, but [...] change the way American politics works so that it can function amidst conditions of polarization." (07:21-08:33)

Potential Fixes

• Abolishing the filibuster, eliminating the Electoral College, granting statehood to Puerto Rico and D.C., and considering court reforms, are discussed as ways to make the system more majoritarian and accountable to voters. (08:38-10:25)
• Klein: "I think the way political systems work best is that people can vote in a party, that party can do the things it said it was going to do, and people can decide if they like the outcome of that." (09:50)

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Identity in Policy:
  "Bernie Sanders has made Medicare for All a kind of litmus test. [...] what you’re seeing is policy operating at a symbolic level." — Ezra Klein (02:32)
• Cycle of Disappointment:
  "We’re much too focused on big promises presidential candidates make and much too light on their plans for institutional reform." — Ezra Klein (04:43)
• Systemic vs. Individual Accountability:
  "We imbue too much explanatory power in stories and actions of individuals. For the most part, individuals carry out the biddings of the political system around them." — Ezra Klein (04:32)
• Voter Accountability:
  "It’s a little bit crazy that we’ve gotten so attuned to a system that is about making sure people can’t get the thing they voted for because we fear that [...] voters are too stupid to decide if they liked it or not." — Ezra Klein (10:14)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:10 — David Remnick introduces the segment on polarization and Ezra Klein.
• 00:56 — Isaac Chotiner’s first question about policy debate as identity politics.
• 01:56 — Klein explains how policy is part of identity.
• 03:51 — Discussion of campaign promises and setting up voter disappointment.
• 05:29 — The “both sides” critique and asymmetric polarization.
• 07:04 — Chotiner on how polarization affects the two-party system’s outcomes.
• 08:38 — Klein outlines potential reforms for a more majoritarian system.
• 10:25 — Segment transition to the Brody Awards.

Segment 2: The Brody Awards—An Alternative Oscars (10:25–26:55)

Main Themes

• Critique of the Academy Awards’ choices and biases.
• Celebration of overlooked films and performances from 2019.
• The underlying theme of “the underground” and societal doubles in cinema.

Award Categories & Winners

Best Actress

• Nominees: Cynthia Erivo (Harriet), Adèle Haenel (Portrait of a Lady on Fire), Lupita Nyong’o (Us), Elisabeth Moss (Her Smell), Melissa McCarthy (The Kitchen)
• Winner: Lupita Nyong’o (Us)
• Notable Discussion:
  • Brody: "Jordan Peele here made a film that is no less a political film than Get Out, but its politics are not centered on the politics of race. And I think, weirdly and unpleasantly, the Academy [...] expects something very particular from an African American filmmaker." (13:20)
  • On Nyong’o’s performance: "She creates characters who are entirely comprehensible, plausible and precise in their milieu. And on the other hand, she captures something exemplary of the [...] haunting experience that makes it one of the most powerful political metaphors of the time." (13:58)

Best Actor

• Nominees: Robert De Niro (The Irishman), Adam Driver (The Dead Don’t Die), Winston Duke (Us), Adam Sandler (Uncut Gems), Paul Walter Hauser (Richard Jewell)
• Winner: Adam Sandler (Uncut Gems)
• Notable Discussion:
  • Brody: "He got screwed because he's in a movie that is a—makes you a nervous wreck from beginning to end. It's a frenzied, daring movie. It also features an actor whom the Academy doesn't take seriously." (15:59-16:08)
  • Alexandra Schwartz: "He got screwed because he's Adam Sandler, I think in part." (16:15)
  • Brody: "Uncut Gems is the story of a man who is digging his own grave. [...] He works in the diamond district. He has a shop where he provides bling for basketball players. Kevin Garnett plays himself in this movie." (16:31)

Best Director

• Nominees: Jordan Peele (Us), Marielle Heller (A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood), Jim Jarmusch (The Dead Don’t Die), Josh and Benny Safdie (Uncut Gems), Martin Scorsese (The Irishman)
• Winner: Jordan Peele (Us)
• Discussion:
  • Brody: "What got me about Us is that it’s a colossal movie. It’s a movie that starts from a very particular experience and really takes on, like, the world." (19:24)
  • Criticism of the Academy’s “dinosauric” snubbing of women directors, with Greta Gerwig notably omitted. (20:01-20:13)
  • On Parasite’s exclusion: "Parasite is a classic case of a pretty good movie. It’s made by a director who has an authentic need to make this movie. [...] But I think fundamentally, he simply wanted to show spaces." (20:36-21:07)
  • Alexandra Schwartz argues that Parasite was “more inventive and working on a lot more levels” and praises the ensemble cast. (21:07-22:02)

Best Picture

• Nominees: A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood, Atlantics, The Dead Don’t Die, The Irishman, An Elephant Sitting Still, Frankie, Her Smell, Little Women, Uncut Gems, Us
• Winner: The Irishman
• Discussion:
  • Brody: "The Irishman is not to be denied. It’s the kind of big historical movie that very few directors dare make and even fewer can make well. [...] The subject of which is organized crime has been rotting out American society for the last 70 years at least." (22:30-24:08)
  • Remnick: "Is there a little bit of having your cake and eating it too? On the one hand you were saying, well, you know the mob. In fact, this is an anti romantic film. It’s the opposite of The Godfather. On the other hand, it’s an incredibly romantic project." (24:08)
  • Brody: "This is in some weird way a deeply metaphysical film, the subject of which is the loss of a person’s soul. But it’s not just loss of a person’s soul, it’s the loss of collective soul." (24:29)

Hidden Gems

• Brody’s Pick: An Elephant Sitting Still — “A four hour long Chinese movie [...] a quiet, intimate spectacle of utter degradation in daily life. It is not a fun movie, but it’s a deeply moving film.” (25:14-25:50)
• Schwartz’s Pick: Atlantics by Mati Diop — “What it does with the idea of migration and these dangerous travels across the sea that many of us read about in the news is spectacular.” (25:50-26:23)

Thematic Summary

• Brody: “This is a year of unbelievably audacious filmmaking, and the one theme that brings the best films of the year together is the underground. Whether the criminal underworld in The Irishman, whether the zombies in The Dead Don’t Die, whether the doubles in Us or even Parasite, the main theme of the year is there’s a second world doubling this world and menacing it.” (26:25-26:55)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Oscars Representation:
  Richard Brody: “The results are dinosauric. [...] Even Quentin Tarantino, whose quality of direction has declined drastically over the years as he has become more attentive to his writing.” (20:03-20:15)
• On Sandler’s “Revenge” Movie:
  Alexandra Schwartz: “I did see an interview that he did where he said that if he did not get nominated, he was going to drop a stink bomb of a movie on all of us as revenge. And so I think we can look forward to that.” (16:15)
• On the Year in Film:
  Brody: “All in all, this was a fantastic year for movies. [...] The main theme of the year is there’s a second world doubling this world and menacing it.” (26:25-26:55)

Key Film Segment Timestamps

• 10:25 — Transition to Brody Awards and intro
• 12:33 — Best Actress nominees and winner revealed
• 13:20 — Discussion of race and representation in Oscar snubs
• 15:33 — Best Actor nominees and Sandler’s win
• 16:59 — Uncut Gems discussion (“That’s the thing they say you can see the whole universe in opal.”)
• 19:00 — Best Director nominees
• 20:36 — Alexandra Schwartz’s and Brody’s debate on Parasite
• 22:08 — Best Picture nominees and winner
• 25:14 — Hidden gems and overlooked films
• 26:25 — Brody’s reflections: the year’s unifying cinematic theme

Conclusion

This episode expertly juxtaposes a serious, systemic critique of American politics with a playful and insightful alternative Oscars. Ezra Klein and Isaac Chotiner dig deep into structural roots of polarization and the paradoxes of American democracy, while David Remnick, Alexandra Schwartz, and Richard Brody skewer the Academy’s conventions, honor overlooked achievements in cinema, and explore the most significant storytelling trends of 2019.

Whether you’re interested in the politics shaping America or the state of cinema, this episode delivers smart, dynamic, and enjoyable conversation true to the spirit of The New Yorker Radio Hour.