Podcast Summary: Angélique Kidjo and David Byrne on “Remain in Light”

Podcast: The New Yorker Radio Hour
Host: WNYC Studios and The New Yorker
Date: June 5, 2018
Host/Moderator: David Remnick, Staff writer Amanda Petrusich
Guests: Angélique Kidjo, David Byrne

Overview

This episode explores the intersection of African and Western music through Angélique Kidjo’s ambitious track-by-track cover of the Talking Heads’ 1980 album Remain in Light. Host Amanda Petrusich (on behalf of David Remnick) interviews Kidjo and, later, David Byrne, delving into the genesis, cultural context, and personal significance of both the original album and Kidjo’s reinterpretation. The conversation also examines wider issues of cultural exchange, resilience, and the global language of music.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Motivation Behind Covering Remain in Light

• Resonance with Contemporary Times:
  Kidjo explains that the project was partly inspired by political and cultural parallels between the Reagan era and contemporary America, evoking “the joy and anguish” reflected in the original album.
  • “It comes to mind that this song, that album was released in the Reagan era and the joy and anguish that I feel in it, it was due to that time. And I wanted to bring into this album the resilience of Africans.” (Angélique Kidjo, 01:43)
• Personal Connection:
  Kidjo describes how she related to the music’s African elements, even before understanding its full context.
  • “Once in a lifetime. For me, it's really about the fact that we can make mistake, but you make mistakes, you ask yourself questions and you move forward.” (Kidjo, 02:21)

2. Interpreting and Reimagining Iconic Tracks

• On “Houses in Motion”:
  • Kidjo shares how she used her native language and personal life experience to express resilience in the face of poverty and displacement.
    • “What I'm saying in my language there is that I woke up one morning with no shoes on, no clothes, no house in the cold. But deep down in my soul, I know I was going to be okay.” (Kidjo, 02:51)

3. Kidjo’s Journey from Benin to Paris

• Struggles with Racism and Belonging:
  Kidjo recalls her early experiences of prejudice and ignorance in France after leaving Benin in 1983, and her determination to challenge stereotypes and assert Africa’s rich culture.
  • “People ask you, how do you go about to go do your shopping, on the back of elephant?...You guys have no culture, no civilization... My first year was a year where I cried every day to go to bed.” (Kidjo, 03:54)

4. Discovering Remain in Light as an African Immigrant

• A Surprising Connection:
  Kidjo first encountered “Once in a Lifetime” at a party in Paris and immediately sensed its African roots—only to be told, “they’re American, white Americans.”
  • “I heard music that brought me back home without me much understanding what the Talking Heads was about, because let's face it, rock and roll is not really famous in Africa.” (Kidjo, 05:23)

5. David Byrne Joins; Reflections on Collaboration and Cultural Links

• Mutual Appreciation and Friendship:
  Byrne describes Kidjo’s project as “brave and incredibly flattering," and notes her interpretive transitions tying songs to traditional Yoruba music and spiritual chants.
  • “She created these transitions... where she would relate the songs to more traditional Yoruba music. There were sometimes chants to the orishas and other kinds of things.” (Byrne, 07:29)
• Origin of Remain in Light:
  Byrne explains the creative process with producer Brian Eno, blending improvisational studio techniques with inspiration from African rhythms, but acknowledges their approach was “reinventing the wheel”—intuitive rather than directly imitative.
  • “We were kind of connecting with a lot of African music, funk music...but we were getting there the long way around.” (Byrne, 10:00)

6. Fela Kuti and Afrobeat’s Influence

• African Innovation:
  Kidjo discusses how Fela Kuti revolutionized Nigerian music and society with Afrobeat and politically charged lyrics, linking artistic creativity with activism.
  • “Fela was so provocative in his words...That song was written to tell the policemen, the military, to stop bullying people, to do their job, to protect the people...” (Kidjo, 10:59)
• Global Exchange:
  Byrne was “knocked out” by Fela’s records, noting how Afrobeat synthesizes American funk with Nigerian rhythms—a perfect symbol of musical cross-pollination.

7. Debate: Cultural Exchange vs. Appropriation

• Retrospective on 1980:
  Byrne admits they “didn’t think about it all that much” at the time, but made a point to publicly acknowledge their influences, even including a bibliography in the press materials.
  • “People thought it was very pretentious at the time to put bibliography on a press release. Yeah. And so it did ask those questions and encourage people to challenge us.” (Byrne, 13:03)
• Kidjo’s View on Cultural Ownership:
  She argues that no one truly owns culture, as it is a fluid collection of influences, but draws the line at unethical expropriation without proper credit or understanding.
  • “Who are we to own any culture? Even our culture doesn't belong to us. It's a collection of different things...We have to be careful of saying our culture. We are all citizens of this world and we travel...” (Kidjo, 13:23)

8. ‘Repatriating’ Remain in Light to Africa

• Kidjo expresses a desire for the project to return full circle, performing her interpretations in Africa and highlighting the journey of music across continents and cultures.
  • “That's the point of doing this album, to bring rock and roll back to Africa for you to realize that is not the music that people are. Everybody is just going like, ah, we can't dance. And that thing is stupid music. I say, no, there's no such a thing as stupid music. It comes from Africa and goes back.” (Kidjo, 14:31)

9. Notable Moments of Warmth and Humor

• Kidjo singing happy birthday to Byrne in her native language (06:34).
• Playful banter over favorite songs—Byrne teasing Kidjo about which of her earlier works he first loved (15:12).

Notable Quotes

• Angélique Kidjo:
  • “Every time I hear [music in the West], they sound African. When I first heard the Ravel Bolero, I said, this is African mode. And people go, no, you guys are savages.” (04:30)
• David Byrne:
  • “We realized that we were... connecting with a lot of African music, funk music and things like that. But we were getting there the long way around... But it was very different than African music or James Brown or anything else that was out there.” (10:00)
• On Appropriation:
  • “Who are we to own any culture? Even our culture doesn't belong to us...when you take somebody's music, you put your name on it, you make it yours, and, you know, recognize that somebody else have written that song...it's a different story. We don't...mix those two things together.” (Kidjo, 13:23)

Timestamps of Important Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------| | 01:43 | Kidjo on the political resonance of Remain in Light| | 02:51 | Meaning behind “Houses in Motion” | | 03:54 | Struggles with racism in Paris | | 05:23 | First hearing Remain in Light | | 06:30 | David Byrne joins the conversation | | 07:29 | Byrne on Kidjo’s live reinterpretation | | 08:16 | Origins and creation of Remain in Light | | 10:59 | Fela Kuti’s impact (Kidjo on Afrobeat) | | 13:03 | Byrne on acknowledging influences (bibliography) | | 13:23 | Kidjo on what constitutes cultural appropriation | | 14:31 | Performing Remain in Light in Africa | | 15:21 | Banter about song selection |

Episode Tone

The conversation is vibrant, warm, and deeply thoughtful—balancing critical discussion of serious cultural questions with a sense of personal connection and shared musical joy. Kidjo’s energetic storytelling and humor, Byrne’s reflective openness, and the host’s genuine curiosity make for a lively, accessible, and inspiring episode.

This summary captures the essence and key moments of the Angélique Kidjo and David Byrne episode on “Remain in Light,” providing a comprehensive guide for anyone interested in music, cultural history, and the evolution of a classic album across continents and genres.