The New Yorker Radio Hour: Antony Blinken’s Exit Interview
Hosted by David Remnick
Release Date: January 17, 2025

Introduction

In this pivotal episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour, host David Remnick conducts a profound and revealing exit interview with Antony Blinken, the outgoing U.S. Secretary of State. Blinken, who has been a central figure in President Biden’s administration, discusses his experiences managing global crises, his perspectives on the Middle East, and his insights into the shifting landscape of international relations as he prepares to hand over the reins to the incoming Trump administration.

The Middle East and the Gaza Ceasefire

David Remnick opens the discussion by highlighting the recent announcement of a ceasefire in Gaza, presenting it as a fragile beacon of hope amidst ongoing conflict. He underscores the complex dynamics, including internal pressures within Israel and the dire humanitarian situation in Gaza.

Blinken elaborates on the administration’s efforts to foster regional integration and normalization, particularly through the Abraham Accords. He emphasizes the strategic importance of establishing a credible pathway toward a Palestinian state as a cornerstone for lasting peace.

“We were making good progress on building relationships among countries to integrate the region, focusing on normalization between Saudi Arabia and Israel” (04:48)

Challenges with Israeli Leadership

Remnick probes into Blinken’s interactions with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, referencing reported frustrations within the administration.

Blinken responds by distancing Netanyahu’s individual actions from broader Israeli societal sentiments, attributing policy shifts to the collective trauma and political landscape in Israel.

“What we've seen in Israel since October 7th reflects the sentiments of 70-80% of Israeli society, not just the Prime Minister” (09:42)

He further addresses allegations regarding the intent behind Israeli actions in Gaza, clarifying his stance on the definition of genocide and condemning the suffering of civilians without categorizing the conflict as such.

“The intent to erase a population is not what I see or what's going on in Gaza” (12:14)

The Palestinian Question

Remnick challenges Blinken’s claim that there has been insufficient focus on Hamas, to which Blinken responds by highlighting the disproportionate condemnation of Israel compared to the silence around Hamas.

“I believe that if there had been a sustained public, vocal demand that Hamas put down its arms, much suffering could have been alleviated” (13:12)

Transitioning to the Incoming Administration

As Blinken prepares to depart, Remnick delves into the dynamics of the upcoming transition to a Trump-led State Department, expressing concerns about appointments such as Marco Rubio and their implications for U.S. foreign policy.

Blinken cautiously addresses his views on Rubio, emphasizing their productive conversations and Rubio’s preparedness for the role, while remaining non-committal about the specifics of the Trump administration’s policies.

“I've had really good conversations with Senator Rubio, and he is extremely well prepared for the job” (24:22)

Perspectives on Russia and China

The discussion shifts to broader geopolitical tensions, with Blinken offering insights into the challenges posed by Russia and China. He highlights the importance of maintaining a strong, unified stance to deter aggression and preserve international norms.

“China has the capacity to change the rules in a way that reflects its interests and values, not ours” (31:51)

Taiwan and Potential Chinese Aggression

Remnick questions the Trump administration’s potential stance on Taiwan, to which Blinken underscores the importance of regional stability and the economic ramifications of any conflict over Taiwan.

“If there were a crisis with China making over Taiwan, the entire world would be affected” (30:00)

Reflections on Biden’s Foreign Policy

In a conversation with staff writer Evan Osnos, Blinken reflects on the limitations of American influence under Biden’s administration. He acknowledges the evolving nature of global power structures and the increasing complexity of international relations in a post-Cold War era.

“We are living in a period that is more combustible, more contested, more complicated than any since the end of the Cold War” (31:51)

Legacy and Future Outlook

As Blinken contemplates his departure, he reflects on his long career and the challenges faced in maintaining American leadership amid rising global adversaries. He expresses cautious optimism about the future, emphasizing the need for strong alliances and adaptive strategies to navigate the complexities of the modern world.

“The speed with which things are happening is much harder, and the challenges are more interconnected than ever” (32:10)

Closing Remarks

David Remnick concludes the interview by acknowledging Blinken’s significant contributions and the nuanced legacy he leaves behind. Blinken expresses gratitude for his tenure and emphasizes the importance of loyalty and steadfastness in leadership.

“Every decision that was made, every policy that was pursued, reflected his judgment and his decision” (37:38)

Conclusion

This comprehensive exit interview offers a rare glimpse into the mindset of one of the most influential figures in recent American foreign policy. Blinken’s candid reflections on the Middle East, his dealings with international leaders, and his assessments of the evolving global order provide invaluable insights for listeners seeking to understand the complexities of U.S. diplomacy and the challenges facing the next administration.

Notable Quotes

• Blinken on Regional Integration:
  “We were making good progress on building relationships among countries to integrate the region, focusing on normalization between Saudi Arabia and Israel.” (04:48)

• On Israeli Society vs. Leadership:
  “What we've seen in Israel since October 7th reflects the sentiments of 70-80% of Israeli society, not just the Prime Minister.” (09:42)

• Defining Genocide:
  “The intent to erase a population is not what I see or what's going on in Gaza.” (12:14)

• On U.S. Influence:
  “We are living in a period that is more combustible, more contested, more complicated than any since the end of the Cold War.” (31:51)

• On Leadership and Decision-Making:
  “Every decision that was made, every policy that was pursued, reflected his judgment and his decision.” (37:38)

Additional Insights

Following the interview, the episode features a discussion with Evan Osnos, a staff writer with extensive experience covering China. Osnos critiques Biden’s foreign policy, suggesting that the administration may have overestimated its personal influence in shaping international relations, particularly with leaders like Netanyahu. He contrasts this with the more impersonal and strategically driven approach of Chinese leadership under Xi Jinping.

Osnos also examines the potential implications of a Trump administration on global stability, especially concerning Taiwan and China’s regional ambitions. He highlights the unpredictability introduced by Trump’s nominations and policies, raising concerns about the consistency and reliability of U.S. foreign policy in response to emerging threats.

Final Thoughts

Antony Blinken’s exit interview serves as a critical reflection on the Biden administration’s foreign policy achievements and shortcomings. It underscores the delicate balance between diplomacy and decisive action in addressing global conflicts and managing relationships with key international players. As the U.S. transitions to a new administration, the insights shared by Blinken and Osnos offer a sobering perspective on the future directions of American diplomacy and its role on the world stage.

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