Billy Porter Wears Many Hats

Summary

Podcast Summary: “Billy Porter Wears Many Hats”

Podcast: The New Yorker Radio Hour
Host: David Remnick (with Rachel Syme interviewing Billy Porter)
Date: November 29, 2019

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Overview

This episode features a lively and deeply personal conversation with Billy Porter—actor, singer, writer, director, and fashion icon—recorded at the New Yorker Festival. Porter discusses his multifaceted career, his journey through the entertainment industry, the power of representation, his groundbreaking sense of fashion, and the challenges that come with fame. The conversation, led by Rachel Syme, sheds light on Porter’s resilience, self-expression, and evolving ambitions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Billy Porter's Beginnings: Theater, Music, and Early Influences

• Porter’s Early Theatricality and Roots

  • Describes himself as a "very theatrical child" and credits the Pentecostal Church for being “theater” and shaping his early stage presence.
    "I also grew up in the Pentecostal Church, which is theater, so I got a lot of training from church." (02:37)
  • Recounts falling in love with performance through the school musical “Babes in Arms”, feeling seen for the first time when he was uniquely cast in a leading role.
    "It was the first time that I felt seen... I was always the last one picked in gym... Somebody thinks I can do whatever this thing is because I don't have to share it with anybody." (04:12-04:34)

• Education and Career Beginnings

  • Attended Creative and Performing Arts High School, then Carnegie Mellon, which led him to Broadway.
  • Even before graduation, had already landed theatrical roles and started making music.

2. Struggles and Challenges in the Music Industry

• Homophobia and Identity

  • Detailed his experiences with “violent” homophobia in the 1990s music industry, describing the constant need to hide or alter his true self for acceptance.
  • Recounts being told to fit into societal expectations—which was always unattainable.
    "It was always about trying to fix myself so that other people would feel comfortable around me and not think I was gay... it was just never enough. And it was the first time that my voice didn’t save me." (05:17-06:33)

• The 'Life of Almosts'

  • Chronicled a painful period of “almosts” in his career, where he was consistently seen as too much or not enough of various qualities, whether racial, sexual, or artistic.
    "Everything was an almost... Always, never straight enough." (06:59-07:34)

3. Turning Inward, Manifesting, and Reinvention

• Refocusing Career Path

  • Porter made a conscious decision to step away, take control, and begin manifesting roles and creative opportunities for himself after feeling pigeonholed and frustrated with lack of real opportunities.
    "Special doesn’t pay the bills." (07:24)
    "If you feel like you can tell the story yourself, you should, because nobody has ever looked like you... You’re gonna have to show the world what it means and what it looks like." (07:43)

• Manifestation Stories

  • Recalls “manifesting” both his participation in the revival of “Angels in America” and his Tony-winning role in “Kinky Boots”.
    "You can manifest. You can speak it without even knowing it." (08:47-09:53)

4. “Pose” and Representation

• Landing the Role of Pray Tell

  • Originally auditioned for another part, advocated for the need for an adult male presence in the cast, leading to the creation of Pray Tell specifically for him. “And Ryan Murphy felt that that was actually right and real and created Pray Tell for me. And that’s how it happened.” (12:34)

• Connection to Ball Culture

  • Porter describes being "ball-adjacent," calling attention to the importance of mainstream representation and how “Paris Is Burning” was a touchstone for queer visibility. "Once again, it was representation. Like, we saw ourselves." (11:14)

5. Fashion as Expression and Cultural Influence

• Early Influences and Family Traditions

  • Recounts growing up in a fashion-centric Black family, with church as a “fashion show,” and his grandmother sewing custom pieces. "The black church is a fashion show every time you show up... My grandmother could sew, and so she would sew the pattern." (13:22-14:00)

• Oscar Gown Moment

  • Breakdown of the iconic 2019 Oscars tuxedo-gown and its intent to question gender expectations.
    "If the shot starts here and it looks like I'm in a tuxedo... and then we pull out and it's her, everybody will gag, and everybody gags now." (15:18)
  • Porter’s intention was authenticity, not shock value. "I really was focused on what would be the most authentic version of me showing up to the Oscars for my very first time. And that's what it is." (15:58)

6. Navigating New Levels of Fame

• Awards and Ambitions

  • Shares where he displays his Grammy, Tony, and new Emmy, and jokes about manifesting an Oscar next.
    "Come on, Oscar. Oscar, Oscar. Come on, Oscar. I’m ready for you." (16:45)

• Upcoming Projects

  • Announces multiple new ventures, including:
    • Film: “Like A Boss” (January release)
    • Fairy Godmother role in new “Cinderella”
    • Forthcoming album: R&B, pop, soul, inspirational dance
    • Directing on “Pose”
    • Directing a play brought from Boston to New York
    • First male on the cover of Allure magazine

• Challenges of Fame and Anonymity

  • Reflects on wanting to remain connected to people and everyday experiences, even as fame grows. "I don’t want to have to be a recluse because I can’t go shopping at Whole Foods for my own... That’s an interesting thing." (17:49)
    • Shares anecdotes about being recognized at gay clubs and in Paris, adjusting to his new public profile. "It’s just been coming so fast this year that I haven’t had a chance to breathe at all. So I just, you know, I’m getting used to this new rhythm, and hopefully I'll be able to get a handle on it." (19:32)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Somebody thinks that I’m talented. Somebody thinks I can do whatever this thing is because I don’t have to share it with anybody.” — Billy Porter on landing his first unique musical role (04:24)
• “It was just never enough. And it was the first time that my voice didn’t save me.” — On the pain of hiding in the music industry (06:33)
• "Special doesn’t pay the bills." – Bruce Cohen, as recounted by Billy Porter (07:24)
• "If you feel like you can tell the story yourself, you should, because nobody has ever looked like you..." (07:35)
• "You can manifest. You can speak it without even knowing it." (09:23)
• "I have to say, I knew it would cause a stir. I didn’t know that it was gonna be for my life... I really didn’t do it for that. I really was focused on what would be the most authentic version of me showing up to the Oscars for my very first time." (15:30-15:58)
• "I’m a big old gay club boy... Bitch, I’m on the same thing as you’re on. You got pictures of yourself all over the internet looking like a ghoul. Leave me alone. Let me get my party on." (18:01)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:20 – 01:45: Billy Porter’s early passion for performance and his first memories of fashion
• 04:12 – 05:08: Feelings of being “seen” for the first time and early career jumps
• 05:17 – 06:43: Discussing heartbreak and homophobia in the music industry
• 06:58 – 08:39: “Life of almosts,” tackling rejection, and advice from Bruce Cohen
• 08:47 – 10:14: Manifesting “Angels in America” and “Kinky Boots”
• 10:14 – 12:34: Joining “Pose” and the creation of Pray Tell
• 13:14 – 15:06: The Oscar gown, fashion influences, and intention behind red carpet moments
• 16:17 – 16:41: Award display and dreaming of an Oscar
• 16:54 – 17:41: Upcoming projects
• 17:49 – 19:32: Coping with sudden fame and maintaining personal freedom

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Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Billy Porter’s voice rings with humor, candor, and inspiration. He analyzes his journey from feeling unseen and silenced to becoming an emblem of authenticity and boundary-breaking representation. With warmth and sharp wit, Porter unpacks the stakes and satisfactions of his visibility both onstage and off, reminding listeners of the personal and cultural power of living honestly and unapologetically.

Transcript

[David Remnick]

From one World Trade center in Manhattan. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour.

[Narrator/Host]

A co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker. Welcome to the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Actor, singer, producer, writer. Billy Porter is a man of many, many hats. And what hats he's got. His performances in the musical Kinky Boots won him a Tony Award and a Grammy. And recently he won an Emmy for his character on Ryan Murphy's FX series Pose. But for all those talents, Porter is probably best known for his sense of style. At the 2019 Oscars, he showed up in a gender bending tuxedo gown. In the words of the New Yorker's fashion columnist Rachel Syme, Porter's torso looked like it was smoking a cigar with a brandy while his skirt was ready for a Gothic Victorian era coronation. Rachel Symes sat down for a conversation with Billy Porter at the New Yorker Festival in October.

[David Remnick]

All right.

[Billy Porter]

Hi, everybody.

[David Remnick]

I just want to start off with the shoes.

[Billy Porter]

Yes. Y' all like my shoes?

[David Remnick]

Tell me about the shoes.

[Billy Porter]

These shoes are Rick Owens. You can applaud for that. No one makes a better platform.

[David Remnick]

Yeah. Because you were saying that the rise is not as high.

[Billy Porter]

Yeah. The pitch is not as high. So I can wear these all day. It's like a tennis shoe.

[David Remnick]

When did you first learn to walk in platforms?

[Billy Porter]

Well, when did I first learn to walk in pumps is the question. I used to sneak into my Aunt Sharon's closet and try to put on her little red pumps. It's really interesting. Cause she had, like these red patent leather pumps that I really loved. And I started to sort of sneak into the closet and try them on before I could fit them. So I was like shuffling in them, you know, like olive oil. Like Minnie Mouse. You know, when it looks like she's in the. Her shoes are too big.

[David Remnick]

Yeah.

[Billy Porter]

And I was just, like waiting and praying for the day when my foot would grow large enough where I could like, walk in them for real and fit them for real. That day came and went in about five days. I grew into them, and five days later, I grew out of them.

[David Remnick]

Were you a theatrical child?

[Billy Porter]

Yeah. Yes, I was a very theatrical child. I also grew up in the Pentecostal Church, which is theater, so I got a lot of training from church. But yes, the answer is yes.

[David Remnick]

Yeah. I mean, you grew up going to performing arts school.

[Billy Porter]

Yes.

[David Remnick]

Carnegie Mellon.

[Billy Porter]

Yes.

[David Remnick]

I mean, the bug must have hit you really early. You knew.

[Billy Porter]

Yeah, I. You know, so it was like the second time that desegregation was trying to happen like late 70s, early 80s. And I was being bused about a half an hour away from my house to a school called Reisenstein Middle School. And I came across one of the programs called Reisenstein Musical Theater. And I didn't know what theater was, but I knew I could sing and I sang in church and I thought maybe I can sing. And I was in the band and I thought, well, maybe there's something musical here that I could be a part of. The musical is Babes in Arms, Rogers and Hart's Babes in Arms. The next week I came in and auditioned and you know, there were about 100 people in the show. Every single role was double cast. So you got to do two performances and then the other person did the other two. The cast list went up. I was cast as Gus Fielding and I was not double cast. And it was the first time that I felt seen. You know, I was always the last one picked in gym, you know what I mean? Like, I was the last one picked. I was the one being bullied. I was blah, blah, blah, all of that shit. So, you know, it just sort of struck me. Somebody thinks that I'm talented, Somebody thinks I can do whatever this thing is because I don't have to share it with anybody.

[David Remnick]

Yeah, only you could do it.

[Billy Porter]

Only I could. You know, like, that registered with me. And so I was really bit by the bug. And then I did go to the Creative and Performing Arts High school. It was a half day program at the time. It had just started. And then that led me, that fed me into Carnegie Mellon, which then fed me into New York.

[David Remnick]

I've read a lot about the early part of your career coming out of Carnegie Mellon, being cast even before you graduate, having, you know, going right to Broadway. Yeah, you know, but also you made a record at that time.

[Billy Porter]

Yes.

[David Remnick]

And I remember that you had said once that it was that the music industry really broke your heart at that time. And I wanted to hear a little bit more about that.

[Billy Porter]

Well, you know, I was always on a sort of dual track. You know, there was my theater side, but there was also my I want to be the male Whitney Houston side of myself. And so I was very much in the music industry trying to get a record deal. I got a record deal on A and M Records. It was an R and B album. You know, the industry at the time was just. And still is very often, you know, it's a little bit better now, but you know, it's just. It was hugely, hugely homophobic. Really, really sort of Violently homophobic. And, you know, it just was never about the music when I was there. It was always about trying to fix myself so that other people would feel comfortable around me and not think I was gay and not. And it just. It was just too much, you know, it was too much for me, and I tried. And, you know, you can go see. You can go online and see the music videos. I'm a good actor. You know, it looked like I was straight. It was fine. It wasn't. You know, it wasn't a big deal. It's like, yeah, I can play. You know, my best friend was my girlfriend in the music video. Like, I got it. You know, I did it, but it was just never enough. And it was the first time that my voice didn't save me.

[David Remnick]

You've said in the past, about 20 years ago, you decided to take a step backwards, rethink the career, be a little bit more behind the scenes, maybe not be so much on stage at the time. Was that a very conscious decision for you?

[Billy Porter]

Yeah, it was very conscious because I had. I had just. I had just gone through way too many almosts. I call it the life of the almosts. Everything was an almost and an almost because I was too much of this or too much of that or too gay or too black or too gospel or not. Musical theater enough or not R and B enough or not urban enough or not straight enough. Always, never straight enough. And, you know, just like, I got to Los Angeles and, you know, I lived there for almost three years. I had maybe four auditions, and I had a meeting with a friend of mine, Bruce Cohen, a producer. He, you know, had just won the Oscar for American Beauty. And I was like, bruce, what am I doing? What's wrong? And he's like, oh, you're just so special. And it's like, you hear that so often. It's like, special doesn't pay the bills. Yeah. You know, and it was very frustrating. And he said, well, if you feel like you can tell the story yourself, you should, because nobody has ever looked like you. You're gonna have to show the world what it means and what it looks like. And that's when my perspective changed and I started, you know, speaking that kind of energy into my life. I want to direct, I want to create. I want to do those kinds of things. It started happening around me.

[David Remnick]

Yeah. I mean, do you believe in manifesting? Because I remember you had said to a friend that you would not come back to live performance for anything short of angels, and.

[Billy Porter]

Well, yes. I mean, that Was a. You know, somebody. She did her research, y'. All. So, yes, I was walking down the street in New York City, and somebody. I can't even remember who they were like, you need to. You need to be back on Broadway. You need to. I was like, I have to stop you. Thank you. Thank you. I love that you want to see me. I'm not happy with what's available to me right now, so I'm taking a break until I can sort of be where I want to be. And she said, well, what would that be? And I said, nothing short of Angels of America. A month later, they announced the revival that the Signature Theater did. And I was like, oh, my God. Like, you can manifest. You can speak it without even knowing it. Like, that was the first time that I unconsciously spoke what I wanted for real into the universe. And it came back like that. And I thought, wait a minute. I actually said that. And when they announced it, I said, that's what I'm doing. I knew I was gonna get it.

[David Remnick]

And where for you did Kinky Boots fall in that journey of life?

[Billy Porter]

I was doing the revival of Angels in America, and they announced Kinky Boots. And I said, and I'm gonna win the Tony for that.

[David Remnick]

So I want to move into talking about pose.

[Billy Porter]

Yes.

[David Remnick]

Because I love it. And I know that when you auditioned for the part, it didn't. Pray Tell didn't really exist yet.

[Billy Porter]

But.

[David Remnick]

You knew you really wanted to be involved in some way.

[Billy Porter]

Yeah, you know, I came out in 85. You know, we went straight to the front lines to fight for our lives. And I was around for the ball culture. You know, I was ball adjacent, I always say, because, you know, I was doing eight shows a week. So, you know, I went to the clubs, but I wasn't at the balls like that. But I. You know, Paris is Burning came out. Once again, you can applaud it. Yeah, it came out. I think it was 91. And I had just moved to New York, and I was 21. And once again, it was representation. Like, we saw ourselves. And I got the script for the audition, and it was for the dance teacher who's played by Charlayne Woodard. And I thought, this ain't the part. This ain't the part I want. But I'm gonna do this audition. I'm gonna nail it to the wall, and then I'll have a little conversation with the casting director. You know, I have a Tony now. I have a Grammy now, so people listen a little bit. So I went in, I did the audition. And then, you know, and that's when I learned of Ryan's brilliant decision to make all the ladies transgender. And I thought, well, that's awesome. Now, don't they need an adult male energy over there? Don't they need, like, a God, like a godfather? Like, they're gonna need somebody. And, you know, there hasn't been a lot of material for these trans actors and actresses to cut their teeth, you know, to practice. So it's like most of them are doing this for the first time. Aren't you gonna need somebody over there to help be. I don't know, just be an example or, you know, And Ryan Murphy felt that that was actually right and real and created. Pray tell, for me. And that's how it happened.

[David Remnick]

I want to talk a little bit about fashion.

[Billy Porter]

Fashion? Yes.

[David Remnick]

Do it. In my mind, you have changed what a red carpet is.

[Billy Porter]

You think so?

[David Remnick]

I think you have had more impact on the red carpet and the idea of the red carpet as theater and as a place to express in the last few years than people have had in 20 years.

[Billy Porter]

Wow. Thank you. Thank you so much.

[David Remnick]

I brought a slideshow.

[Billy Porter]

Please.

[David Remnick]

This is a big one. This is your Oscar couture?

[Billy Porter]

Yes.

[David Remnick]

This is Christian Siriano.

[Billy Porter]

Yes.

[David Remnick]

It is custom for you?

[Billy Porter]

Yep. You want me to talk about it? So what happened was, you know, I have to say, I grew up in the black church. The black church is a fashion show every time you show up, you know, black people, my generation, at least pre, you know, hip hop, prison chic, you know, I'm first generation civil rights movement. So we dressed up, you know, we wanted to look good. We wanted to dress up. We weren't wearing our jeans below our cracks. We wanted to, you know, we were fashion, high, high fashion all the time. And my grandmother could sew, and so she would sew the pattern. She would get the pattern. So we got the Vogue patterns and all of that stuff. So we were always. And my sister, who's sitting right there, I didn't even really realize how. How much of a fashion family we were until a couple of years ago when she found a photo album, and we started looking through things, and it's like, my fashions are on point from here. You know, the jumpsuits and the. You know, and the. You know, the geranimals and the. And the, you know, the powder blue Easter suit that you turn around and it's plaid on once, you know, it's reversible. And, you know, I was like, oh, I was always kind of turning it on, and so was my family. So, you know, so it's to be in this position and also understand very, very early on that I always knew I wanted whatever career that I was going to have to be aligned with something fashion, because I've just always loved it. So that was the first one. It got a lot of hits. Then I went to Fashion Week, and it was my first Fashion Week, and I was the ambassador for the cfda, and the call came in to host the red carpet for the Oscars, and I had the whole idea because I thought, you know, it's about the gender conversation. And I thought, if the shot starts here and it looks like I'm in a tuxedo, a regular tuxedo, and then we pull out and it's her, everybody will gag, and everybody gags now. I didn't know, I have to say, I knew it would cause a stir. I didn't know that it was gonna be for my life. You know, B O A O before Oscar, after Oscar, like, I didn't. I really didn't know that it was gonna have that kind of impact. The impact that you just talked about, about, like, how I've changed something. I didn't do it for that. I really didn't do it for that. I really was focused on what would be the most authentic version of me showing up to the Oscars for my very first time. And that's what it is.

[David Remnick]

Where are you keeping your Emmy right now?

[Billy Porter]

It's right in my living room on my little table. We have a shelf. I have a shelf. I have these really special sort of round, rounded, frosted plexiglass shelves for the Grammy and for the Tony. So now we just ordered one for the Emmy, so it'll be on the ball soon.

[David Remnick]

And maybe an Oscar in your future.

[Billy Porter]

Yeah, maybe. Let's do it. Let's name it and claim it.

[David Remnick]

Let's name it and claim it.

[Billy Porter]

Come on, Oscar. Oscar, Oscar. Come on, Oscar. I'm ready for you.

[David Remnick]

You have so many other things coming up. Do you want to talk about some of the things?

[Billy Porter]

Yeah, sure. I have a new movie coming out with Tiffany Haddish, Rose Byrne, and Salma Hayek in January called Like a Boss. I am going to be playing the fairy godmother in the new Cinderella opposite Camilla Cabello. You know, I'm making a new album that's gonna come out next year of, you know, R and B pop, soul, inspirational dance kind of music.

[David Remnick]

Cause I love yourself.

[Billy Porter]

We need to dance. We need to dance. I am directing an episode of Pose. I have a play that I directed that just debuted in Boston that we're bringing into New York, and I'm gonna be the first male on the COVID of Allure magazine.

[David Remnick]

Is there anything that still scares you about moving forward and becoming bigger and bigger?

[Billy Porter]

You know, the thing not scares me, but the complicated thing about it is I am a person who is of the people, and I don't want to have to be a recluse because I can't go shopping at Whole Foods for my own. Like, I don't want to be that. That's an interesting thing. For instance, I'm a big old gay club boy. You know? I am. And, you know, we were on vacation in P Town, and, you know, it was bear week, and we're at the club and. Ooh, bear week, you know, I know the bears, honey. And I got all my. You know, I don't have no clothes on, and we're dancing and, you know, people are actually, you know, people have dropped their recreational mollies and, you know, and they want to come take pictures of me. I'm like, bitch, I'm on the same thing as you're on. You got pictures of yourself all over the Internet looking like a ghoul. Leave me alone. Let me get my party on. You just don't.

[David Remnick]

And it ever gets so big that you can't enjoy Bear Week.

[Billy Porter]

I'm trying to figure out how to navigate that.

[David Remnick]

And it's a new thing to navigate.

[Billy Porter]

It's very new. I was in Paris doing a Mont Blanc thing this past week, and I walked 200ft down the Champs Elysees and was surrounded by, you know, eight black queens in about three minutes. I was like, okay, okay, this is what it is. No complaints. No complaints. Please understand. It's just. What is the. How do we navigate through that? With grace. With grace and love. You know, because it's just been coming so fast this year that I. I haven't had a chance to breathe at all. So I just, you know, I'm getting used to this new rhythm, and hopefully I'll be able to get a handle on it.

[David Remnick]

Well, I want to thank everybody for coming, but especially the fabulous, amazing.

[Billy Porter]

Thank you. Thank you so much.

[Narrator/Host]

The multi talented Billy Porter. He talked with Rachel Syme, who writes our column on and off the Avenue, and you can find her work@New Yorker.com I'm David Remnick, and thanks for listening. If you're looking for something else to listen to on this long, long weekend, I'm gonna have to recommend the Catch and Kill podcast with the New Yorker Zone. Ronan Farrow Check it out. Please join us next week on the New Yorker Radio Hour.

[Production Credits Reader]

The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Meryl Garbus of Tune Yards, with additional music by Alexis Quadrado. This episode was produced by Alex Barron, Emily Bottin, Ave Carrillo, Rhiannon Corby, Karen Froman, Kalalea, David Krasnow, Caroline Lester, Louis Mitchell, Michelle Moses, and Stephen Valentino, with help from Morgan Flannery, Allison McAdam, Meng Fei Chen, and Emily Mann. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Torina Endowment Fund.