The New Yorker Radio Hour – “Deportation in America”

Date: January 12, 2018
Host: David Remnick
Guests/Reporters: Jonathan Blitzer, Sarah Stillman, Sara Nixon, Jessica Vaughn, and various interviewees.

Episode Overview

This episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour, hosted by David Remnick, delves deeply into the realities of immigration, deportation, and the shifting American landscape under President Donald Trump. Through immersive storytelling and analysis, it addresses sanctuary movements, legal challenges, policy rhetoric versus reality, the economic and human impact of deportations, and the dire consequences faced by deportees—especially those fleeing Central American violence. The episode blends field reporting, expert commentary, and personal profiles to paint a comprehensive portrait of a country wrestling with its identity and values.

Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Seeking Sanctuary: The Story of Amanda Morales Guerra

Reporter: Jonathan Blitzer (00:36–10:15)

• Sanctuary Spaces:
  Blitzer visits Holyrood Episcopal Church in Manhattan, where Amanda, a Guatemalan mother of three U.S. citizen children, resides for protection against deportation. Churches, schools, and hospitals are designated as off-limits to ICE, making them refuges.
• Daily Life in Sanctuary:
  Amanda’s life is constricted—she cannot leave without risking arrest. Her children attend school, but Amanda’s inability to accompany them is a source of deep pain.
• Community Response:
  The church community forms part of the “New Sanctuary Movement,” banding together to support families at risk.
• The Emotional Toll:
  Amanda describes feeling “stuck,” “nauseous,” and “unable to breathe” due to her confinement. Her youngest child has become fearful, clinging to her constantly.
• Memorable Quote:
  “I feel stuck in here. I feel nauseous, like I can’t breathe. I want to get outside. I want to almost have wings and fly away or just walk away outside, to breathe the air outside, to get out of here, to breathe the air.” – Amanda Morales Guerra (09:44)

2. Legal Realities & Shifting Enforcement

Guests: Jonathan Blitzer & Sarah Stillman, Host: David Remnick (10:15–23:31)

• Enforcement in the Trump Era:
  ICE arrests up 40% in the previous year, but deportations not yet exceeding Obama-era levels—though a backlog in immigration courts suggests a coming increase.
• Legal Challenges:
  Many detainees lack legal representation. Judges have even required children as young as three to represent themselves (12:19).
• Obama vs. Trump Policies:
  The Obama administration eventually tried to prioritize removals of those with criminal records; Trump administration rolled back those protections, opening the door to broader enforcement.
• Sanctuary Cities Under Siege:
  Federal threats to prosecute sanctuary city officials are taken seriously; in Texas, new laws would allow prosecution of sheriffs who don’t cooperate with ICE (13:52).
• Consequences of Deportation:
  Many deportees face significant danger if returned to Central America, yet even minor infractions can trigger removal.
• Memorable Quote:
  “So I think what we’re going to see coming down the pipeline is a dramatic increase in deportations, but we’re finding it takes some time to work its way through the courts.” – Sarah Stillman (11:18)
• Public Attitudes:
  Contrary to the political noise, DACA enjoys broad bipartisan support. Trump mobilizes a minority by playing on fears regarding crime and jobs (16:19–16:57).
  “The numbers show quite the opposite: immigrants... commit crimes at lower rates than people who are native born US citizens.” – Sarah Stillman (16:58)

3. MS-13, Racial Profiling & the Reality of Crime

Jonathan Blitzer and Remnick (17:18–20:14)

• Gang Focus in Long Island:
  The Trump administration has spotlighted the MS-13 gang as justification for crackdowns—yet the result has often been racial profiling and detentions of victims rather than perpetrators (18:47).
• ICE Tactics:
  ICE lacks the need for criminal proof, unlike local police, making it “notorious for being much less scrupulous” (19:11).
• Memorable Quote:
  “ICE doesn’t have to prove any of that. All ICE has to do is round up people who are here illegally.” – Jonathan Blitzer (19:54)

4. Economic Realities of Immigration

Blitzer, Stillman, Remnick (20:14–21:25)

• Job Market Myths:
  Immigrants, especially undocumented, fill essential roles—“do the work that Americans wouldn’t want to do.” Policies targeting them have led to economic problems, e.g., crops left to rot in Alabama after anti-immigrant laws (20:51).
• Stakeholder Opposition:
  Education, business, and law enforcement sectors have all urged against harsh measures.
• Comprehensive Reform Blocked:
  Comprehensive immigration reform has broad potential support, but extremism in Congress derails solutions (22:10–22:56).

5. Policy Debate—A Restrictionist View

Interview with Jessica Vaughn, Center for Immigration Studies (24:06–34:34)

• Values and Concerns:
  Vaughn claims that current levels of immigration distort labor markets, cost taxpayers, and create public safety concerns (27:03).
• Labor Market Claims:
  Vaughn disputes the idea that there are jobs “Americans won’t do,” in opposition to field reporting and economic data (28:14).
• Refugee Policy:
  Favors supporting refugees abroad with resources rather than resettlement in the U.S. “I would rather help more people rather than, you know, offer just a few people filet mignon.” – Jessica Vaughn (31:15)
• Enforcement Philosophy:
  Vaughn downplays overzealous enforcement and supports targeting employers as a more effective deterrent.

6. Immigrant Labor on U.S. Dairy Farms

Sara Nixon reports from Wisconsin (34:43–40:49)

• Vital Role of Immigrants:
  Latino immigrant workers are indispensable in Wisconsin’s dairy industry, often performing jobs native-born Americans refuse.
• Personal Stories:
  “Jimmy,” a Mexican immigrant, works on a major dairy farm, having done various agricultural jobs since arriving in the U.S. at 18.
• Economic Chains:
  Farmer Scott Marika notes that without immigrant labor, the entire dairy industry would struggle: “If you have a farm and you milk more than what your family can manage and do yourself, most likely you have Hispanic employees... when those jobs that run the dairy farm from the ground up aren’t met, then everything else above us fails.” – Scott Marika (39:40)

7. When Deportation Is a Death Sentence

Sarah Stillman’s reporting on Nelson Avila Lopez (40:49–53:17)

• Nelson’s Story:
  A young gay man fleeing Honduran gang violence comes to the U.S., is improperly deported after a technical/legal error, and ultimately dies in a Honduran prison fire.
• Systemic Failings:
  The pace and confusion of deportation proceedings mean tragic errors and life-and-death consequences for vulnerable people.
• Memorable Moments:
  “So Nelson had come here at 17, seeking to be safe, and instead what he got was being very speedily deported to his death.” – Sarah Stillman (52:05)
• Family Impact:
  Nelson’s mother, Ana Lopez, mourns not just her son but fears for her remaining children under Trump’s policies.
• Policy Reflection:
  Remnick closes by urging listeners to reflect on how the choices made today will be judged by history (53:17).

Notable Quotes & Moments

| Timestamp | Quote & Speaker | | --- | --- | | 09:44 | “I feel stuck in here. I feel nauseous, like I can’t breathe. I want to get outside. I want to almost have wings and fly away...” – Amanda Morales Guerra | | 12:19 | “You’ve actually seen immigration judges in the federal system say that a three year old has to represent themselves in court by themselves.” – Sarah Stillman | | 16:58 | “The numbers show quite the opposite: immigrants... commit crimes at lower rates than people who are native born US citizens.” – Sarah Stillman | | 19:11 | “ICE is definitely notorious for being much less scrupulous even than ordinary police.” – Jonathan Blitzer | | 20:14 | “It’s not true. In fact, it’s emphatically the opposite... The economic research... is extensive.” – Jonathan Blitzer | | 31:15 | “Personally, I would rather help more people rather than, you know, offer just a few people filet mignon.” – Jessica Vaughn | | 39:40 | “If you have a farm... most likely you have Hispanic employees... everything else above us fails.” – Scott Marika | | 52:05 | “So Nelson had come here at 17, seeking to be safe, and instead what he got was being very speedily deported to his death.” – Sarah Stillman |

Important Timestamps

• 00:36 – Jonathan Blitzer at Holyrood Church (Amanda’s Sanctuary story)
• 10:15 – Discussion on DACA, ICE enforcement, Obama vs Trump
• 13:52 – Sanctuary cities/politicians under siege
• 16:58 – Immigrant crime statistics debunked
• 20:14 – Myth-busting job market impact of immigrants
• 24:06 – Interview with Jessica Vaughn (restrictionist perspective)
• 34:43 – Sara Nixon’s report from Wisconsin dairy farms
• 40:49 – Sarah Stillman’s account of Nelson Avila Lopez
• 52:05 – Stillman’s conclusion to Nelson’s story (deportation as death sentence)
• 53:17 – Remnick’s moral reflection and closing

Tone & Style

The reporting and discussions are empathetic, measured, and rooted in narrative storytelling and analysis. Remnick and his team seek to illuminate not just policy debates, but individual human stories—their fear, resilience, and the moral dilemmas faced by all involved.

Summary

“Deportation in America” is a multifaceted examination of the lived realities and political rhetoric of U.S. immigration. Through on-the-ground reporting, legal and economic analysis, and the voices of immigrants, policymakers, and those caught in the machinery of enforcement, the episode challenges assumptions with hard data and emotional testimony. Above all, it asks listeners to consider how America’s choices today—who it chooses to expel, protect, or support—will be judged by future generations.