Podcast Summary: The New Yorker Radio Hour

Episode: Does Every Marriage Need a Prenup?
Date: January 13, 2026
Host: David Remnick
Guests: Jennifer Wilson (New Yorker staff writer), Laura Wasser (celebrity divorce attorney), Kaylyn Dillon (“Prenup Coach”)
Producer: WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

Overview

This episode explores the rise in prenuptial agreements (“prenups”) among younger Americans, especially millennials and Gen Z. Host David Remnick speaks with New Yorker staff writer Jennifer Wilson about her recent reporting, which uncovers why prenups are no longer reserved for the ultra-wealthy and how tech, cultural changes, and anxieties about marriage and finances are reshaping the prenup conversation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Cultural Shift Around Prenups ([00:12]–[02:13])

Prenups used to be regarded as scandalous—"like pre-negotiating your divorce," says Remnick, recalling pop culture references like Seinfeld’s George and Susan.
Jennifer Wilson noticed prenups trending on TikTok, driven by financial influencers like Vivian Tu (“Your Rich BFF”), whose followers overwhelmingly supported her sharing the contents of her own prenup.
Notable Quote ([01:59]):

"When I was young, prenups were for Aristotle Onassis and Jackie Kennedy or movie star X or some gazillionaire on Fifth Avenue. When did that change?"
—David Remnick

2. Why Are Young People Embracing Prenups? ([02:13]–[04:12])

The rise of no-fault divorce in the 1980s made marital breakups more common and less stigmatized; about a quarter of millennials grew up with divorced or separated parents.
According to Wilson’s interview with “Prenup Coach” Kaylyn Dillon, young people today approach marriage with more skepticism and want everything clarified in writing.
Memorable Quote ([03:20]):

"Everyone should have a conversation about a prenup... What they're not thinking about is they already are entering into a contract that governs their marriage... Even having those pre-prenup discussions... can be really educational."
—Laura Wasser, celebrity divorce attorney

3. How Millennial and Gen Z Prenups Look Different ([04:12]–[05:12])

Millennials' prenups are more pragmatic and less adversarial; often, both partners have similar earning power.
Increasing focus on support issues—discussing lifestyle, dual incomes, and mechanisms to keep outcomes fair if the marriage ends.
Notable Quote ([04:20]):

"They're approached with less resentment... It's more of a level playing field... I think we discuss in prenuptial agreements for millennials, support issues a lot."
—Laura Wasser

4. Prenup Prevalence, Apps, and Accessibility ([05:12]–[07:26])

Prenups aren’t just for the rich: aspirational couples, sometimes with little wealth, want them—reflecting a desire for “some modicum of control.”
Wilson cites a Harris poll: 21% of Americans reported signing a prenup in 2023, up from just 3% in 2010—although exact numbers are hard to verify.
Enter prenup apps: “Hello Prenup” and “Neptune” guide couples through key questions for a few hundred dollars instead of high legal fees.
Gamification: “Fight Night” is an analog card game to help couples hash out values, finances, and conflicts before (or during) prenup negotiations.

5. Money Mindsets and Negotiating Tactics—“Fight Night” Game ([07:26]–[11:15])

Jennifer and David play through sample questions from “Fight Night,” illustrating real differences in couples’ values over sharing finances, spending, and even splitting bills at group dinners.
- Memorable Interaction:
  ([08:29])
  
  Remnick: "I said fully shared."
  Wilson: "I played this game... I don't want to have to pay for someone's super expensive gym membership..."
  - David jokes: "As somebody who's been married for decades, that way lies madness."
- Splitting the check at dinner sparks debate:
  
  "Would you marry someone who says, 'ask to itemize the bill'?" ([10:20])
  —Jennifer Wilson
  "I don't think I would, no. It's too tedious." —David Remnick
Highlights generational differences: Gen Z couples may be more granular with money, using Venmo and apps to split everything, even within relationships.

6. What Goes in a Prenup? The Expanding Universe of Clauses ([12:02]–[14:59])

Almost anything can be written in prenups—except custody/child support—but enforcement is subject to judges’ discretion.
- Some “wildest” clauses include frequency of sex, BMI/weight requirements, and penalties for negative social media posts (“social image clause”).
- New issues: embryo clauses (IVF), AI chatbot “micro cheating,” social media.
- Quote ([13:05]):
  
  "Bro, I'm not putting that in here because it is unenforceable... If you took it to a judge, the judge would say, I can't enforce that. That's unconscionable. That's against public policy. No."
  —Laura Wasser

7. Education, Existing Law & Gender Impacts ([15:17]–[16:30])

Even without a prenup, couples are automatically governed by state divorce law (e.g., “community property” or “equitable distribution”).
Wilson learned surprising facts: marital debt can include things like loans for a car bought by only one spouse if both benefit.
Early data and intention suggest prenups may benefit women more, especially those taking time out of the workforce for childcare: "equalization clauses" can build in compensation for lost earning years.
Wilson sees the prenup boom partly as an anxious, private workaround for frayed public and social safety nets.
- Quote ([16:30]):
  
  "I am sympathetic to people who do [get prenups] because I do think it's an expression of anxiety, it's an expression of fear that the social contract is just frayed."

8. Wider Societal Implications ([17:38]–[18:10])

Remnick notes that the trend, though sometimes comical, reflects bigger social and political shifts.
Wilson notes millennials’ formative experiences—great recession, economic instability, anxious future—make seeking financial control appealing.
- Quote ([17:49]):
  
  "We tell these jokes about avocado toast, but we came of age in the Great Recession and, you know, there's a lot of anxiety about the future. So who wouldn't want to try to have some modicum of control over what's gonna happen?"
  —Jennifer Wilson

Memorable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

Laura Wasser on why everyone should discuss prenups:
"[...] they already are entering into a contract that governs their marriage [...] Even having those pre-prenup discussions... can be really educational." ([03:20])
David’s reaction to mixed finances:
"As somebody who's been married for decades, that way lies madness." ([09:00])
On splitting dinner checks:
"Would you marry someone who says, 'ask to itemize the bill'?" —Wilson ([10:20])
"I don't think I would, no. It's too tedious." —Remnick
On wild clauses:
"Bro, I'm not putting that in here because it is unenforceable... That's unconscionable. That's against public policy. No." —Laura Wasser ([13:05])
On prenups as a symptom of deeper social anxieties:
"It's an expression of anxiety, it's an expression of fear that the social contract is just frayed." —Jennifer Wilson ([16:30])

Important Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------|------------| | Seinfeld reference, cultural taboo | 00:12–01:00| | TikTok’s influence, rise of fame | 01:18–01:59| | Why Millennials/Gen Z favor prenups | 02:13–04:12| | Technologies & democratization | 05:12–07:26| | “Fight Night” game, values & money | 07:26–11:15| | Unusual prenup clauses (sex, BMI, etc.) | 12:12–14:43| | Embryo & AI chatbot clauses | 14:43–14:59| | Do prenups benefit women? | 16:22–17:38| | Generational anxiety & wider context | 17:38–18:10|

Takeaways

Prenups have shifted from taboo to practical for many young couples—not just the wealthy.
Technology and new apps make prenups more accessible and less intimidating.
Social and economic anxieties are fueling the desire for control and transparency in marriage.
The “private law” of prenups is supplementing or replacing trust in public or corporate policy for some.
The game “Fight Night” and customizable clauses reflect how broad, creative, and sometimes bizarre prenup negotiations can become in modern relationships.

For further reading:
Jennifer Wilson’s article, "Why Millennials Love Prenups," is available at newyorker.com.

Podcast Summary: The New Yorker Radio Hour

Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Cultural Shift Around Prenups ([00:12]–[02:13])

Prenups used to be regarded as scandalous—"like pre-negotiating your divorce," says Remnick, recalling pop culture references like Seinfeld’s George and Susan.
Jennifer Wilson noticed prenups trending on TikTok, driven by financial influencers like Vivian Tu (“Your Rich BFF”), whose followers overwhelmingly supported her sharing the contents of her own prenup.
Notable Quote ([01:59]):

"When I was young, prenups were for Aristotle Onassis and Jackie Kennedy or movie star X or some gazillionaire on Fifth Avenue. When did that change?"
—David Remnick

2. Why Are Young People Embracing Prenups? ([02:13]–[04:12])

The rise of no-fault divorce in the 1980s made marital breakups more common and less stigmatized; about a quarter of millennials grew up with divorced or separated parents.
According to Wilson’s interview with “Prenup Coach” Kaylyn Dillon, young people today approach marriage with more skepticism and want everything clarified in writing.
Memorable Quote ([03:20]):

"Everyone should have a conversation about a prenup... What they're not thinking about is they already are entering into a contract that governs their marriage... Even having those pre-prenup discussions... can be really educational."
—Laura Wasser, celebrity divorce attorney

3. How Millennial and Gen Z Prenups Look Different ([04:12]–[05:12])

Millennials' prenups are more pragmatic and less adversarial; often, both partners have similar earning power.
Increasing focus on support issues—discussing lifestyle, dual incomes, and mechanisms to keep outcomes fair if the marriage ends.
Notable Quote ([04:20]):

"They're approached with less resentment... It's more of a level playing field... I think we discuss in prenuptial agreements for millennials, support issues a lot."
—Laura Wasser

4. Prenup Prevalence, Apps, and Accessibility ([05:12]–[07:26])

Prenups aren’t just for the rich: aspirational couples, sometimes with little wealth, want them—reflecting a desire for “some modicum of control.”
Wilson cites a Harris poll: 21% of Americans reported signing a prenup in 2023, up from just 3% in 2010—although exact numbers are hard to verify.
Enter prenup apps: “Hello Prenup” and “Neptune” guide couples through key questions for a few hundred dollars instead of high legal fees.
Gamification: “Fight Night” is an analog card game to help couples hash out values, finances, and conflicts before (or during) prenup negotiations.

5. Money Mindsets and Negotiating Tactics—“Fight Night” Game ([07:26]–[11:15])

Jennifer and David play through sample questions from “Fight Night,” illustrating real differences in couples’ values over sharing finances, spending, and even splitting bills at group dinners.
- Memorable Interaction:
  ([08:29])
  
  Remnick: "I said fully shared."
  Wilson: "I played this game... I don't want to have to pay for someone's super expensive gym membership..."
  - David jokes: "As somebody who's been married for decades, that way lies madness."
- Splitting the check at dinner sparks debate:
  
  "Would you marry someone who says, 'ask to itemize the bill'?" ([10:20])
  —Jennifer Wilson
  "I don't think I would, no. It's too tedious." —David Remnick
Highlights generational differences: Gen Z couples may be more granular with money, using Venmo and apps to split everything, even within relationships.

6. What Goes in a Prenup? The Expanding Universe of Clauses ([12:02]–[14:59])

Almost anything can be written in prenups—except custody/child support—but enforcement is subject to judges’ discretion.
- Some “wildest” clauses include frequency of sex, BMI/weight requirements, and penalties for negative social media posts (“social image clause”).
- New issues: embryo clauses (IVF), AI chatbot “micro cheating,” social media.
- Quote ([13:05]):
  
  "Bro, I'm not putting that in here because it is unenforceable... If you took it to a judge, the judge would say, I can't enforce that. That's unconscionable. That's against public policy. No."
  —Laura Wasser

7. Education, Existing Law & Gender Impacts ([15:17]–[16:30])

Even without a prenup, couples are automatically governed by state divorce law (e.g., “community property” or “equitable distribution”).
Wilson learned surprising facts: marital debt can include things like loans for a car bought by only one spouse if both benefit.
Early data and intention suggest prenups may benefit women more, especially those taking time out of the workforce for childcare: "equalization clauses" can build in compensation for lost earning years.
Wilson sees the prenup boom partly as an anxious, private workaround for frayed public and social safety nets.
- Quote ([16:30]):
  
  "I am sympathetic to people who do [get prenups] because I do think it's an expression of anxiety, it's an expression of fear that the social contract is just frayed."

8. Wider Societal Implications ([17:38]–[18:10])

Remnick notes that the trend, though sometimes comical, reflects bigger social and political shifts.
Wilson notes millennials’ formative experiences—great recession, economic instability, anxious future—make seeking financial control appealing.
- Quote ([17:49]):
  
  "We tell these jokes about avocado toast, but we came of age in the Great Recession and, you know, there's a lot of anxiety about the future. So who wouldn't want to try to have some modicum of control over what's gonna happen?"
  —Jennifer Wilson

Memorable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

Laura Wasser on why everyone should discuss prenups:
"[...] they already are entering into a contract that governs their marriage [...] Even having those pre-prenup discussions... can be really educational." ([03:20])
David’s reaction to mixed finances:
"As somebody who's been married for decades, that way lies madness." ([09:00])
On splitting dinner checks:
"Would you marry someone who says, 'ask to itemize the bill'?" —Wilson ([10:20])
"I don't think I would, no. It's too tedious." —Remnick
On wild clauses:
"Bro, I'm not putting that in here because it is unenforceable... That's unconscionable. That's against public policy. No." —Laura Wasser ([13:05])
On prenups as a symptom of deeper social anxieties:
"It's an expression of anxiety, it's an expression of fear that the social contract is just frayed." —Jennifer Wilson ([16:30])

Important Timestamps

Takeaways

Prenups have shifted from taboo to practical for many young couples—not just the wealthy.
Technology and new apps make prenups more accessible and less intimidating.
Social and economic anxieties are fueling the desire for control and transparency in marriage.
The “private law” of prenups is supplementing or replacing trust in public or corporate policy for some.
The game “Fight Night” and customizable clauses reflect how broad, creative, and sometimes bizarre prenup negotiations can become in modern relationships.

For further reading:
Jennifer Wilson’s article, "Why Millennials Love Prenups," is available at newyorker.com.

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Does Every Marriage Need a Prenup?

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Summary

Podcast Summary: The New Yorker Radio Hour

Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Cultural Shift Around Prenups ([00:12]–[02:13])

2. Why Are Young People Embracing Prenups? ([02:13]–[04:12])

3. How Millennial and Gen Z Prenups Look Different ([04:12]–[05:12])

4. Prenup Prevalence, Apps, and Accessibility ([05:12]–[07:26])

5. Money Mindsets and Negotiating Tactics—“Fight Night” Game ([07:26]–[11:15])

6. What Goes in a Prenup? The Expanding Universe of Clauses ([12:02]–[14:59])

7. Education, Existing Law & Gender Impacts ([15:17]–[16:30])

8. Wider Societal Implications ([17:38]–[18:10])

Memorable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

Important Timestamps

Takeaways

Summary

Podcast Summary: The New Yorker Radio Hour

Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Cultural Shift Around Prenups ([00:12]–[02:13])

2. Why Are Young People Embracing Prenups? ([02:13]–[04:12])

3. How Millennial and Gen Z Prenups Look Different ([04:12]–[05:12])

4. Prenup Prevalence, Apps, and Accessibility ([05:12]–[07:26])

5. Money Mindsets and Negotiating Tactics—“Fight Night” Game ([07:26]–[11:15])

6. What Goes in a Prenup? The Expanding Universe of Clauses ([12:02]–[14:59])

7. Education, Existing Law & Gender Impacts ([15:17]–[16:30])

8. Wider Societal Implications ([17:38]–[18:10])

Memorable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

Important Timestamps

Takeaways