Does Every Marriage Need a Prenup?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The New Yorker Radio Hour

Episode: Does Every Marriage Need a Prenup?
Date: January 13, 2026
Host: David Remnick
Guests: Jennifer Wilson (New Yorker staff writer), Laura Wasser (celebrity divorce attorney), Kaylyn Dillon (“Prenup Coach”)
Producer: WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

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Overview

This episode explores the rise in prenuptial agreements (“prenups”) among younger Americans, especially millennials and Gen Z. Host David Remnick speaks with New Yorker staff writer Jennifer Wilson about her recent reporting, which uncovers why prenups are no longer reserved for the ultra-wealthy and how tech, cultural changes, and anxieties about marriage and finances are reshaping the prenup conversation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Cultural Shift Around Prenups ([00:12]–[02:13])

• Prenups used to be regarded as scandalous—"like pre-negotiating your divorce," says Remnick, recalling pop culture references like Seinfeld’s George and Susan.
• Jennifer Wilson noticed prenups trending on TikTok, driven by financial influencers like Vivian Tu (“Your Rich BFF”), whose followers overwhelmingly supported her sharing the contents of her own prenup.
  Notable Quote ([01:59]):

  "When I was young, prenups were for Aristotle Onassis and Jackie Kennedy or movie star X or some gazillionaire on Fifth Avenue. When did that change?"
  —David Remnick

2. Why Are Young People Embracing Prenups? ([02:13]–[04:12])

• The rise of no-fault divorce in the 1980s made marital breakups more common and less stigmatized; about a quarter of millennials grew up with divorced or separated parents.
• According to Wilson’s interview with “Prenup Coach” Kaylyn Dillon, young people today approach marriage with more skepticism and want everything clarified in writing.
• Memorable Quote ([03:20]):

  "Everyone should have a conversation about a prenup... What they're not thinking about is they already are entering into a contract that governs their marriage... Even having those pre-prenup discussions... can be really educational."
  —Laura Wasser, celebrity divorce attorney

3. How Millennial and Gen Z Prenups Look Different ([04:12]–[05:12])

• Millennials' prenups are more pragmatic and less adversarial; often, both partners have similar earning power.
• Increasing focus on support issues—discussing lifestyle, dual incomes, and mechanisms to keep outcomes fair if the marriage ends.
• Notable Quote ([04:20]):

  "They're approached with less resentment... It's more of a level playing field... I think we discuss in prenuptial agreements for millennials, support issues a lot."
  —Laura Wasser

4. Prenup Prevalence, Apps, and Accessibility ([05:12]–[07:26])

• Prenups aren’t just for the rich: aspirational couples, sometimes with little wealth, want them—reflecting a desire for “some modicum of control.”
• Wilson cites a Harris poll: 21% of Americans reported signing a prenup in 2023, up from just 3% in 2010—although exact numbers are hard to verify.
• Enter prenup apps: “Hello Prenup” and “Neptune” guide couples through key questions for a few hundred dollars instead of high legal fees.
• Gamification: “Fight Night” is an analog card game to help couples hash out values, finances, and conflicts before (or during) prenup negotiations.

5. Money Mindsets and Negotiating Tactics—“Fight Night” Game ([07:26]–[11:15])

• Jennifer and David play through sample questions from “Fight Night,” illustrating real differences in couples’ values over sharing finances, spending, and even splitting bills at group dinners.

  • Memorable Interaction:
    ([08:29])

    Remnick: "I said fully shared."
    Wilson: "I played this game... I don't want to have to pay for someone's super expensive gym membership..."

    • David jokes: "As somebody who's been married for decades, that way lies madness."
  • Splitting the check at dinner sparks debate:

    "Would you marry someone who says, 'ask to itemize the bill'?" ([10:20])
    —Jennifer Wilson
    "I don't think I would, no. It's too tedious." —David Remnick

• Highlights generational differences: Gen Z couples may be more granular with money, using Venmo and apps to split everything, even within relationships.

6. What Goes in a Prenup? The Expanding Universe of Clauses ([12:02]–[14:59])

• Almost anything can be written in prenups—except custody/child support—but enforcement is subject to judges’ discretion.
  • Some “wildest” clauses include frequency of sex, BMI/weight requirements, and penalties for negative social media posts (“social image clause”).
  • New issues: embryo clauses (IVF), AI chatbot “micro cheating,” social media.
  • Quote ([13:05]):

    "Bro, I'm not putting that in here because it is unenforceable... If you took it to a judge, the judge would say, I can't enforce that. That's unconscionable. That's against public policy. No."
    —Laura Wasser

7. Education, Existing Law & Gender Impacts ([15:17]–[16:30])

• Even without a prenup, couples are automatically governed by state divorce law (e.g., “community property” or “equitable distribution”).
• Wilson learned surprising facts: marital debt can include things like loans for a car bought by only one spouse if both benefit.
• Early data and intention suggest prenups may benefit women more, especially those taking time out of the workforce for childcare: "equalization clauses" can build in compensation for lost earning years.
• Wilson sees the prenup boom partly as an anxious, private workaround for frayed public and social safety nets.
  • Quote ([16:30]):

    "I am sympathetic to people who do [get prenups] because I do think it's an expression of anxiety, it's an expression of fear that the social contract is just frayed."

8. Wider Societal Implications ([17:38]–[18:10])

• Remnick notes that the trend, though sometimes comical, reflects bigger social and political shifts.
• Wilson notes millennials’ formative experiences—great recession, economic instability, anxious future—make seeking financial control appealing.
  • Quote ([17:49]):

    "We tell these jokes about avocado toast, but we came of age in the Great Recession and, you know, there's a lot of anxiety about the future. So who wouldn't want to try to have some modicum of control over what's gonna happen?"
    —Jennifer Wilson

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Memorable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• Laura Wasser on why everyone should discuss prenups:
  "[...] they already are entering into a contract that governs their marriage [...] Even having those pre-prenup discussions... can be really educational." ([03:20])
• David’s reaction to mixed finances:
  "As somebody who's been married for decades, that way lies madness." ([09:00])
• On splitting dinner checks:
  "Would you marry someone who says, 'ask to itemize the bill'?" —Wilson ([10:20])
  "I don't think I would, no. It's too tedious." —Remnick
• On wild clauses:
  "Bro, I'm not putting that in here because it is unenforceable... That's unconscionable. That's against public policy. No." —Laura Wasser ([13:05])
• On prenups as a symptom of deeper social anxieties:
  "It's an expression of anxiety, it's an expression of fear that the social contract is just frayed." —Jennifer Wilson ([16:30])

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Important Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------|------------| | Seinfeld reference, cultural taboo | 00:12–01:00| | TikTok’s influence, rise of fame | 01:18–01:59| | Why Millennials/Gen Z favor prenups | 02:13–04:12| | Technologies & democratization | 05:12–07:26| | “Fight Night” game, values & money | 07:26–11:15| | Unusual prenup clauses (sex, BMI, etc.) | 12:12–14:43| | Embryo & AI chatbot clauses | 14:43–14:59| | Do prenups benefit women? | 16:22–17:38| | Generational anxiety & wider context | 17:38–18:10|

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Takeaways

• Prenups have shifted from taboo to practical for many young couples—not just the wealthy.
• Technology and new apps make prenups more accessible and less intimidating.
• Social and economic anxieties are fueling the desire for control and transparency in marriage.
• The “private law” of prenups is supplementing or replacing trust in public or corporate policy for some.
• The game “Fight Night” and customizable clauses reflect how broad, creative, and sometimes bizarre prenup negotiations can become in modern relationships.

For further reading:
Jennifer Wilson’s article, "Why Millennials Love Prenups," is available at newyorker.com.

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Transcript

[A]

This is the new yorker radio hour, a co production of wnyc studios and the new yorker.

[B]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. In olden times, meaning about a decade ago, asking your intended spouse to sign a financial agreement, a prenup carried with it a whiff of scandal. I think this was a plotline from Seinfeld. George Costanza asked his fiance Susan to sign a prenup, hoping she'd get so mad that she'd be the one to call off their wedding.

[C]

A prenup?

[B]

Yeah. What's so funny?

[C]

You don't have any money. I make more money than you do. Yeah. Give me the papers. I'll sign them.

[B]

But times have changed. Jennifer Wilson just reported a piece on prenups for the New Yorker. And during her reporting, she found that younger couples now embrace prenups wholeheartedly for a whole complicated mix of reasons. So, Jen, what got you interested in writing about prenups in the first place?

[C]

You know, I just noticed that suddenly they were everywhere. They were all over TikTok. There's this really prominent financial influencer named. Named you're rich bff. Her actual name is Vivian, too. And she did this video, you know, what's in my prenup and what's in my purse.

[A]

So for a prenup, we went 50.

[C]

50 on everything that we brought to the marriage. 50, 50 on everything we'd earned during the marriage.

[A]

And the only exception was a 100%.

[C]

Carve out of the equity in my business. You know, I sort of thought all the comments would be kind of, you know, mocking her or, you know, calling her privileged, but everyone was very supportive. You know, everyone needs a prenup these days. Like, you know, okay, wait a minute. When I.

[B]

When I was young, the only up prenups were Aristotle Onassis and Jackie Kennedy or movie star X or some gazillionaire on Fifth Avenue. When did that change? When did that start to change?

[C]

What really changed things was no fault divorce. So by the 1980s, when millennials were being born, most states had adopted no fault divorce. So 25% of millennials grew up with parents who were divorced or separated. So one of the people I interviewed was this woman who calls herself the prenup coach. She said her name is Kaylyn Dillon. She's a financial advisor in Kansas. And she said, you know, this generation just doesn't believe in marriage in the same way. They don't trust it. They want, you know, they want everything in writing. I mean, and everything I Did not know all the things that could go into a prenup. One person who's really made divorce law glamorous, if you can say that, is Laura Wasser. She's a celebrity divorce attorney. She represented Kim Kardashian in her divorces. She's also an advisor, advisor for hello, Prenup. And she recommends that couples get a prenup or at least consider getting a prenup, because the conversations about money and about, you know what, the laws, the existing laws already are can be really educational. And here's what she told me about that.

[D]

What I say is, everyone should have a conversation about a prenup, because so many people say, oh, God, you're getting a prenup. That's so unromantic. That's like pre negotiating your divorce. Why do you want to enter into a contract that governs your marriage? What they're not thinking about is they already are entering into a contract that governs their merits. And so even having those pre prenup discussions where you go, okay, we're getting married, and from the day that we get married, November 18th forward, every dollar that I make is 50 cents yours. And they also don't know my retirement account that I'm going to contribute to during the marriage. You're going to get half of what I contributed during the marriage if we split up. They don't know that's the law. So they're getting married if they don't have a prenupt conversation, they're getting married. Entering into that, they may not like the terms of so much, even if they are young and just starting out.

[C]

What are you seeing in those prenups? Like, you know, what does a millennial prenup look like to you?

[D]

I think that they're probably better thought out. I think they're approached with less resentment. I think you have the millennials that I've done prenups for, it's kind of more of a level playing field rather than just one super rich old guy not getting his trophy wife to be able to take too much. I think we discuss in prenuptial agreements for millennials, support issues a lot. Spousal support or alimony maintenance, you may know it as. I think that whereas before, that was a hot ticket in terms of how much this person will actually need if we end up divorcing, this is much more. Let's take a look at what we're living on now, what our lifestyle is now, and what that might look like if we split up. And who's the breadwinner or who's making more in a dual income and who might have to kick a little bit over to the other one to keep that playing field level.

[B]

That's Laura Wasser, a divorce attorney you spoke with. Now, Jen, in your reporting, you cited a Harris poll from 2023 that has 21% of Americans saying they signed a prenup. That is up from 3%, just 3% who said that in 2010. This is a huge change. So who's signing prenups now and who's not doing it?

[C]

So, I mean, those numbers are really hard to verify because you only file a prenup in the event of divorce. So we don't exactly know how many prenups there are. Some lawyers I talked to told me they thought those figures were a bit high, but everyone agreed that they're doing more prenups, that prenups are way more common. And it's not just rich people. It's often people who are quite aspirational, people who want to be rich one day. You know, sometimes these are people with very little and they don't have the money really to go to lawyers to get these prenups. They're actually using these new apps that have come out in the last three or four years.

[B]

So they're prenup apps. What's the premier one?

[C]

So, hello, Prenup is one of the latest prenup apps where you just, you answer a series of questions. Some of it's sort of basic financial stuff like, do you have me student loan debt? Did you have a house that you bought before you and your partner both answer these questions, you know, once you both are aligned in an agreement, it auto generates a prenup for you for 599, 600 bucks, not nothing. And if you would like a lawyer to look over it and you know, it's a little bit more Jen in your hands.

[B]

You've got a little box. But I don't think it's a ring.

[C]

It's not. But, you know, you could decide that you want to take the ring back after we play this game. That's the kind of thing. This is a game for couples who are contemplating, you know, whether or not to get a prenup and if they should get a prenup. It's sort of, it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be fun. It's called fight Night. This is still in beta. The founder solely of Neptune warned me. Neptune is an app that helps couples make prenups. So they're Very high tech. But this Fight Night is a new analog feature. Yeah, Fight night. Because the best relationships can handle the hard conversations. Okay.

[B]

You'd be surprised.

[C]

Go ahead. All right, the first card, should we own more or less of crypto?

[B]

How about no crypto?

[C]

We're aligned.

[B]

Okay, so you put it in this stack of aligned.

[C]

Yeah, we're aligned. We're aligned. We're aligned here. Okay. If we could pick the gender of our children, would we. I would say no.

[B]

No, we're aligned.

[C]

We're aligned. Okay, These are a little bit trickier. All right, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna.

[B]

These darker cards are.

[C]

These darker cards. These are called on three cards. So I'm gonna read the question. I'm gonna read the question, and then, like, three possible answers.

[B]

Okay?

[C]

And on the count of three, we're each gonna put up a finger. So if you answer one, put up one. If it's two, et cetera. Okay. Money earned during the relationship is one fully shared, two fully separate, three mixed. Okay. On the count of three. One, two, three, go. Okay, see, we're not aligned.

[B]

I said fully shared.

[C]

You said fully shared. Once you were holding one finger up, and I have three fingers up. I think mixed. I played this game.

[B]

What's the difference between shared and mixed?

[C]

So the idea, if everything's fully shared, all our money is kind of in one pool, one pot mixed might meet. So in my mind, most of our money would be shared, but we might each have, like, a checking where we just kind of have, you know, discretionary funds.

[B]

Okay. As somebody has been married for decades, that way lies madness.

[A]

But okay.

[B]

No judgment to any listener.

[C]

I was. It's so funny. I was playing this game with the founder of Neptune, and she said, like, you know, and I said, three. And, you know, I said to her, I was like, I don't know why, but of all the things, what I'm thinking of is that I don't want to have to pay for someone's super expensive gym membership. That's, like, a thing in New York. People are paying, like, $500 a month for these gym memberships. And I was like. And I just don't want that coming out of the marital pool. And she said, well, you know, some people would consider that, you know, a community benefit. And I said, wait, like. Because people talk like this. People talk like this. Cause I get to, like, appreciate how this person looks after they've been at the gym. And I was making a joke.

[B]

It keeps the BMI down.

[C]

It keeps the BMI I was joking and she was like, dead ass.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Yeah, wow.

[B]

All right. You want to do one more? Let's do one more. Okay. Fight night.

[C]

Oh, this one is kind of fun. This is like a money values type question. At a group dinner where others get drinks but you don't you. One, ask to itemize the bill. Two, split evenly, but you're annoyed. Three, split evenly. It's fine. Okay, on the count of three. One, two, three. Go. Three, three. Okay, we're aligned.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[C]

But you can see how the answer to this question, if it differs, you know, I mean, would you marry someone who says, ask to itemize the bill?

[B]

I don't think I would, no. It's too tedious.

[C]

It's too. It's also just like, you're gonna sacrifice our friendships, our connections with this group of people, over how much money are you gonna save?

[B]

Right? Who had the tuna fish salad? I'm not doing it. Yeah, but I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's a thing. If you have very modest means and you didn't drink and you're trying to save and. Fair enough.

[C]

I mean, I think when you're doing this with your partner, you have a sense of that's the issue, if that's what's motivating it. But I think we also are, you know, I think in particular Gen Z, you know, they send a lot of Venmo requests. You know, you go on a group trip and, you know, there's a split wise itemization. And so this does come up more often, you know, between couples and I'm.

[B]

Speaking with staff writer Jennifer Wilson. More in a moment.

[A]

Are you hungry for some great investigative journalism? That sounds like music. Then Radiolab might be the show for you. Radiolab began over 20 years ago as an exploration of science, philosophy, and ethics. The show has since expanded to become a platform for some of the best long form journalism and storytelling you'll hear today. Join Jad, Lulu Miller and myself, Latif Nasser, as we investigate stories that provoke delight and ask you to completely change the way you view the world. You can find Radiolab wherever you get podcasts.

[B]

That was a fun game, by the way.

[C]

It was fun. I really like it.

[B]

Yeah. If you're now getting one of these things, other than your financial arrangements, what else is in there?

[C]

So basically anything can be in a prenup, except for anything related to child custody or to child support. But you can put anything in a prenup. They're not always gonna be like some of the Crazier clauses. You know, I talked to one lawyer who said that she's had clients who want, you know, in writing that they have to have sex twice a week or there's a financial penalty if they get divorced.

[B]

Timeout, sex frequency is penciled in.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, most judges will not.

[B]

Be calibrated over time.

[C]

I don't know what kind of accounting they're doing, but, you know, they're in.

[A]

For a big show.

[C]

You know, I heard one story of a couple who wanted it in writing. You know, if our BMI goes over 30, we have to pay a penalty of, you know, $50,000 BMI, their weight.

[B]

As we gently say.

[D]

I have a famous story about my client saying to me, you know, we've had all these discussions about how she's not gonna work anymore. You have kids, and I'm okay with that, but I want something in there saying that she will lose the baby weight within a six month period of time. And I was like, bro, I'm not putting that in here because it is unenforceable. And yes, people can agree to anything. And if people both believe that they're going to stand by their word. You want to put that in there and it's motivational, fine. If one person said, I didn't do it, or I didn't lose the baby weight, or I didn't, you know, stay with this maintenance of weight that I agreed I would. And you took it to a judge, the judge would say, I can't enforce that. That's unconscionable. That's against public policy. No.

[C]

So some of the other clauses that I've heard of, what's really popular right now is something called the social image clause. So Millennials and Gen Z, you're talking about digital natives, they're very aware of social media and how social media could kind of ruin your reputation and career. So they have clauses saying, you know, if you post negative content about your ex, you have penalty of, you know, and you can set the penalty, it can be anywhere from five dol, a million. And you don't actually have to have that much money. There's also something called an embryo clause. So, you know, my generation, we're having children later, more people are using ivf. So there are clauses, you know, about, you know, how are we going to divide the embryos if we get divorced? Who's going to pay for storage fees? But also what's come up is, you know, what about relationships with AI chatbots? You know, can you have an emotional affair with a Chatbot. One of the divorce attorneys I interviewed for the piece.

[B]

Oh, man.

[C]

Said, you know, she's told her clients, listen, you can absolutely subpoena a chatbot. And, you know, she said, I tell all my clients, be careful what you start confiding, how much you start confiding. You start telling that chatbot more than you're telling your spouse. It can be considered micro cheating.

[B]

It's almost like an extended project you've been carrying on these past months, which have been combined the financial and the personal. And so much now on this story. When you came to the end of the reporting and the thinking and the writing of it, do you think in your own life you'd get a prenup?

[C]

So one of the things that divorce attorneys will tell you is that, listen, even if you don't have a prenup, you do have a prenup, because there are the laws that exist, you know, wherever you are. You know, the governing how, you know, assets are split in the event of a divorce. You know, if you're In California, it's 50, 50. If you're near New York, it's, you know, equitable distribution. There already is a kind of contract in place. I think that I'm okay with the laws that are already on the books, but I do think that this is a great thing to think about. Like, I did find it really educational. I didn't know that, for instance, if your partner takes out a car loan, like, let's say your partner has, like, a midlife crisis and, like, buys some convertible without your consent. Without my consent, but only their name is on the car. If I benefit from that debt, like, for instance, if I maybe. Maybe I take it for a spin every now and again, like that means it's a marital debt.

[B]

Is there any way to know who has benefited most from this trend? I mean, men or women or. I mean, what do we know about that?

[C]

I mean, I think that, you know, these. We're talking about millennials and particularly Gen Z. These aren't people who've been married super long yet. So we don't exactly know what the effect is, but I think the intended effect is that it will benefit women more than existing laws. So, for instance, hello, prenup has something called an equalization clause. So if you are a woman who's left the workforce to raise small children, you can assign, for instance, a dollar amount in the prenup that says, for every year I stayed home with the children, I would be awarded this much money or a greater percentage of the assets. New York law is already supposed to consider those things. That's what equitable distribution means. And so I am sympathetic, even though I don't think I would get a prenup. I'm sympathetic to people who do because I do think it's an expression of anxiety, it's an expression of fear that the social contract is just frayed. That policy, that public policy, but also corporate policies are just not where they need to be. And so they're kind of like a privatized solution to this.

[B]

It's a symptom. I mean, however funny some of the details are, at times it's a symptom of not to get too grand about it, but larger politics and larger forces at play.

[C]

No, of course. I mean, so millennials, you know, we tell these jokes about avocado toast, but you know, we are we came of age in the Great Recession and, you know, there's a lot of anxiety about the future. So who wouldn't want to try to have some modicum of control over what's gonna happen?

[B]

Well, Jen Wilson, it's a funny piece, but it's also a really thought provoking piece and I'm delighted to talk to you today.

[C]

Thank you for having me.

[B]

You can read Jen Wilson's piece why millennials love [e-mail] I'm David Remnick and that's the New Yorker Radio Hour for today. Thanks for listening. If you're one of our new listeners on Iowa Public Radio, welcome and I hope you'll join us next time.

[A]

The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Meryl Garbus of Tune Yards with additional music by Louis Mitchell and Jared Paul. This episode was produced by Max Balton, Adam Howard, David Krasnow, Jeffrey Masters, Louis Mitchell, Jared Paul and Ursula Sommer. With guidance from Emily Botin and assistance from Michael May, David Gable, Alex Barish, Victor Guan and Alejandra Deckett. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Cherina Endowment. NYC now delivers the most up to date local news from WNYC and Gothamist every morning, midday and evening with three updates a day. Listeners get breaking news, top headlines and in depth coverage from across New York City by sponsoring programming like NYC now. You'll reach our community of dedicated listeners with premium messaging and an uncluttered audio experience. Visit sponsorship.wnyc.org to get in touch and find out more.